Opera appreciations and discussion

[heman]

35 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

Fischer-Dieskau with Alfred

I too has this duoCD from the Decca Label if i can recalled. I better search for it in my CD library at home for it been a long while that i last heard it. Dieskau had special nuances in his interpretation but at times i felt he "over expressed" himself at times. 

[Steve5380]

1 minute ago, heman said:

I too has this duoCD from the Decca Label if i can recalled. I better search for it in my CD library at home for it been a long while that i last heard it. Dieskau had special nuances in his interpretation but at times i felt he "over expressed" himself at times. 

 

Yes, it is common to find "over expressed" singing in these lieder, and Dieskau is no exception.  Neither is Ludwig, although she does not exaggerate. 

[InBangkok]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

I didn't know that James Levine was also an accompanist, and when I looked him up I realized that he had passed away this March.  RIP GOOD MAN!  Being gay should not have lead to that ugly and unnecessary scandal (!)  I also learned that he had Parkinson's,  although he apparently died of "natural causes". 

"RIP GOOD MAN"? What on this good earth do you know about his personal life? Ask anyone in the music business (yes I do have some friends there) and Levine was anything but a good man. Several men have come forward publicly with claims of being molested by him. A great many other cases were covered up, partly with pay offs from his own considerable wealth and partly by the Board of the Metropolitan Opera. He was a very fine conductor and frequently a very fine pianist. But he was both a client of and backed by the most powerful and ruthless man in the classical music business, Ronald Wilford, the Chairman and President of Columbia Artists inc. Wilford did everything to keep Levine's extra curricular activities with boys away from the media, including pay offs from the Met Board.

 

Levine was NOT a GOOD MAN! He joins Kevin Spacey, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby and that other growing list of wealthy personalities of powerful sexual molesters who have been found out. He does not deserve to rest in peace.

[Steve5380]

10 hours ago, InBangkok said:

"RIP GOOD MAN"? What on this good earth do you know about his personal life? Ask anyone in the music business (yes I do have some friends there) and Levine was anything but a good man. Several men have come forward publicly with claims of being molested by him. A great many other cases were covered up, partly with pay offs from his own considerable wealth and partly by the Board of the Metropolitan Opera. He was a very fine conductor and frequently a very fine pianist. But he was both a client of and backed by the most powerful and ruthless man in the classical music business, Ronald Wilford, the Chairman and President of Columbia Artists inc. Wilford did everything to keep Levine's extra curricular activities with boys away from the media, including pay offs from the Met Board.

 

Levine was NOT a GOOD MAN! He joins Kevin Spacey, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby and that other growing list of wealthy personalities of powerful sexual molesters who have been found out. He does not deserve to rest in peace.

 

I am so sorry!  This happens to me because I have a good heart.   I felt sorry for this poor ugly fat guy, and gay on top of it, who may have had tremendous difficulties in finding some sex he so desperately needed (he apparently didn't have the force of will to refrain from it).  A pitiful man, not even a good pianist, judging from his accompaniment to Ludwig.

 

And given that I am also a sinner (by Catholic standards)  but not a predator,  I don't judge as severe the sins of the flesh as I judge other sins like deception, treason, indifference, violent crime.

 

So I withdraw the "GOOD MAN",  but leaving in place the "RIP".

[InBangkok]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

I am so sorry!  This happens to me because I have a good heart.   I felt sorry for this poor ugly fat guy, and gay on top of it, who may have had tremendous difficulties in finding some sex he so desperately needed (he apparently didn't have the force of will to refrain from it).  A pitiful man, not even a good pianist, judging from his accompaniment to Ludwig.

 

And given that I am also a sinner (by Catholic standards)  but not a predator,  I don't judge as severe the sins of the flesh as I judge other sins like deception, treason, indifference, violent crime.

 

So I withdraw the "GOOD MAN",  but leaving in place the "RIP".

You are a poster who has sided with pedophilia in the past. So you regard sexual molestation of young boys as less severe that deception and indifference. That is an utter disgrace! Anyone who condones the practice of pedophilia should not be a member of this or any other Board.

[Steve5380]

8 hours ago, InBangkok said:

 

You are a poster who has sided with pedophilia in the past. 

 

 

Now you are not only a pesky individual who is after me for unknown reasons,  but you are also a shameless liar.

 

I have never sided with pedophilia. Never.  Not because I demonize consensual sex with people who are younger, but because I am convinced that there must be a red line not to cross.  MINORS are not for sex, except with other minors.

 

This is no different with James Levine.  He was weak, unable to control his instincts.  But his demonizing misses an essential ingredient:  there is no evidence beyond reasonable doubt that he had sex with children.  He denies it.  If the evidence had been conclusive, he would not only have been publicly shamed and fired but he would have ended in jail.

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/some-thoughts-james-levine-being-accused-sexual-andor-bob-rammeloo/

 

You need to grow up and mature to give "the benefit of the doubt",  not only to me but to other people who are not here to defend themselves.  And now please stop pushing me into comments that are not the topic here.

.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Steve5380

[InBangkok]

8 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

This is no different with James Levine.  He was weak, unable to control his instincts.  But his demonizing misses an essential ingredient:  there is no evidence beyond reasonable doubt that he had sex with children.  He denies it.  If the evidence had been conclusive, he would not only have been publicly shamed and fired but he would have ended in jail.

Wrong - again! He was indeed publicly shamed and fired and was due to be taken to court.

 

In a suit filed Friday by the Metropolitan Opera, five men have made newly public accusations against conductor and pianist James Levine, who was closely associated with the Met for four decades. In total, nine men have now come forward, either by name or anonymously, with accusations against Levine.

Levine was fired by the Met in March, his artistic home of some 40 years, after he faced public allegations of sexual misconduct that surfaced last December, which resulted in his suspension from the famed New York opera house. 

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2018/05/19/612621436/james-levine-accused-of-sexual-misconduct-by-5-more-men

 

And yet again, as you did before - do you want me to post what you wrote before? (I don't think so!) -  you put down pedophilia to someone being " weak, unable to control his instincts." So if a person cannot control his instincts and molests children, it's OK with you. Shame on you! I say again, Shame on you!

[Steve5380]

18 minutes ago, InBangkok said:

 

And yet again, as you did before - do you want me to post what you wrote before? (I don't think so!) -  you put down pedophilia to someone being " weak, unable to control his instincts." So if a person cannot control his instincts and molests children, it's OK with you. Shame on you! I say again, Shame on you!

 

 

I don't want to continue discussions out of topic.  You can post anything I wrote before.   I put down pedophilia to someone being "weak, unable to control his instincts"?   Yes,  I stand by this.  I also put down murder to someone being weak, unable to control his instincts.  Isn't this true?   A person who is a pedophile or a murderer for the thrill of evil I see instead as mentally sick.

 

Now please put this to rest and return to the topic.

[InBangkok]

6 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

Now please put this to rest and return to the topic.

Why? Because you made a comment in this thread and you were wrong? So now you wish to go back to the subject of the thread without admitting you were wrong? That is so typical of your posts. If you are wrong, have the good grace to admit it. Then more on.

 

14 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

He was weak, unable to control his instincts.  But his demonizing misses an essential ingredient:  there is no evidence beyond reasonable doubt that he had sex with children.  He denies it.  If the evidence had been conclusive, he would not only have been publicly shamed and fired but he would have ended in jail.

James Levine may not be conducting the orchestra for WSS but he did conduct another movie favourite, Fantasia 2.

[Steve5380]

On this beautiful Spring day, I am reflecting on what opera to watch next.

Let it be Mozart's The Magic Flute.   I can never get enough of Mozart   

[InBangkok]

As the pandemic has forced opera companies and orchestras to close down their operations at least temporarily, the usual top tier changes have been taking place, pretty much out of the public eye. For this thread, the most newsworthy item is that Sir Anthony Pappano is to leave his post as Music Director at the Royal Opera House in the summer of 2024. He will be continuing as a guest at the House where  he is slated to conduct Das Rheingold in 2023, the first of a new Ring cycle by director Barrie Kosky. 

 

Earlier Sir Simon Rattle had announced his departure from the London Symphony Orchestra to return to Germany were he will take over the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra in 2023. Although Rattle had been expected to stay much longer in London, his family also live in Berlin and as a stanch anti-Brexiteer the new rules make it extremely difficult for musicians to work in different EU countries. He has now applied for German citizenship.

 

As other musicians have been screaming at the government, no provision was made in the Brexit agreement with the EU for musicians touring in Europe. Orchestras and individual artists will now have to apply for individual work visas for each separate country they visit on a tour, with each individual visa costing US$100 up.

 

In the meantime, Pappano has announced he plans to stay in London and will take over the reins at the LSO when Rattle departs for Munich.

[Steve5380]

I might have posted this before, but I appreciate so much Kurt Moll's singing in Die Zauberflote:

 

 

[InBangkok]

More good news on the live opera front. The Giorgio Armani Group is to become a new corporate patron of the La Scala Opera House. Its first donation will be used to help construct a new building to the rear of the present House to provide additional spaces for production and orchestral rehearsals, for the ballet company and for a larger area to assemble scenery. Armani said in a statement - 

 

"My commitment to Milan, in this period of upheaval, has been important on many fronts, and I certainly could not neglect the culture sector, which has been hit hard in every aspect. The arts are always put on the back burner in difficult times because they do not immediately appear vital and necessary. But they are. Theatre, music, and ballet are pure expressions of beauty and of the highest human qualities – creativity, ingenuity, imagination, commitment – which stimulate progress and rebirth.

 

"This new initiative is dedicated to the city of Milan, for the symbolic value of the institution, but also for my emotional and personal ties with it, for the memories of the many performances and concerts I have attended, of the illustrious guests I have dressed, and of unforgettable experiences such as the creation of the costumes, in 1994, for Richard Strauss’ Elektra conducted by Maestro Sinopoli. 

 

"Now, more than ever, I feel a moral duty to actively support the prestigious opera house, a legacy of the Milanese and non-Milanese alike, a true symbol of intellectual endurance."

Edited May 8, 2021 by InBangkok

[Steve5380]

7 hours ago, InBangkok said:

 

"Now, more than ever, I feel a moral duty to actively support the prestigious opera house, a legacy of the Milanese and non-Milanese alike, a true symbol of intellectual endurance."

 

 

This post has stimulated my taste buds with a nice nostalgia from my country. 

 

In Buenos Aires we have a common traditional dish:  Milanesa a la Napolitana.  Delicious,  a thin slice of beef filet, dipped in an egg sauce, then covered with bread crumbs and finally pan fried.  Served with crunchy french fries.  Not the healthiest of foods, but it is not too harmful and one knows what is in it.  A true symbol of culinary endurance.

 

I also feel moral duty to support, not so much a prestigious opera house,  but all the efforts by the  government to help the victims of the pandemic and the efforts to end it. 

.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Steve5380

[Steve5380]

I have found another interview of the prestigious singer Christa Ludwing,  which I consider one of the best.  She is 87yo but from her liveliness she could be decades younger. I wish you could all understand her words, because they are strong, wise, humorous and very informative about music.  There are too many spoken videos on YouTube that don't have subtitles with good English translations,  and perhaps they should have a rule that each spoken video they publish should be understandable to an English speaking person. 

 

 

[InBangkok]

5 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

I have found another interview of the prestigious singer Christa Ludwing,  which I consider one of the best.  She is 87yo but from her liveliness she could be decades younger. I wish you could all understand her words, because they are strong, wise, humorous and very informative about music.  There are too many spoken videos on YouTube that don't have subtitles with good English translations,  and perhaps they should have a rule that each spoken video they publish should be understandable to an English speaking person. 

 

 

You have frequently complained about posters writing posts in Chinese, a language that is very common in Singapore. But you don't know it and so you complain, stating that posters should have the decency to post in English. Now you post a video in the German language which far fewer posters here know. So typical! You don't even bother to give a decent summary of what Frau Ludwig is saying. You are so intensely selfish.

[Steve5380]

8 hours ago, InBangkok said:

You have frequently complained about posters writing posts in Chinese, a language that is very common in Singapore. But you don't know it and so you complain, stating that posters should have the decency to post in English. Now you post a video in the German language which far fewer posters here know. So typical! You don't even bother to give a decent summary of what Frau Ludwig is saying. You are so intensely selfish.

 

She says a lot of interesting things, even a summary would be lengthy.  If I were "intensely selfish",  I would not even mention the problem of those who don't speak German, and my wish that YouTube should require subtitles with translations to English.

[InBangkok]

3 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

She says a lot of interesting things, even a summary would be lengthy.  If I were "intensely selfish",  I would not even mention the problem of those who don't speak German, and my wish that YouTube should require subtitles with translations to English.

Just posting it in a language few readers will understand and at the same time stating it is "one of the best" is intensely selfish.

[Steve5380]

27 minutes ago, InBangkok said:

Just posting it in a language few readers will understand and at the same time stating it is "one of the best" is intensely selfish.

 

I will start to investigate about spoken language translators,  and if I find a good solution I will let it know here.  There are some videos by Yukio Yokoyama, an excellent expert in Chopin Etudes, that are his masterclasses for these etudes.  There he speaks at length in Japanese, without any subtitles.  I get information from his playing, examples, but I would like to get also his comments.

[InBangkok]

On 5/9/2021 at 11:16 PM, Steve5380 said:

There are some videos by Yukio Yokoyama, an excellent expert in Chopin Etudes, that are his masterclasses for these etudes.  There he speaks at length in Japanese, without any subtitles.  I get information from his playing, examples, but I would like to get also his comments.

What has that to do with a vdo posted in German without subtitles? Perhaps you can explain how listeners to this "one of the best " interviews with Frau Ludwig are expected to get information what it is actually about. You speak at least some German. Surely you could at least provide a summary of the main points.

[Steve5380]

21 hours ago, InBangkok said:

What has that to do with a vdo posted in German without subtitles? Perhaps you can explain how listeners to this "one of the best " interviews with Frau Ludwig are expected to get information what it is actually about. You speak at least some German. Surely you could at least provide a summary of the main points.

 

I understand every word she says.  But there is so much of it...

 

"I am not proud of what I achieved in my career. Having the talent, the voice, it is a responsibility to make use of them.  I am not proud, but happy that it all worked out. "dumbness and pride grow on the same stump". I missed some of my private life, which was never like that of a private woman. I have a child, but could not fully enjoy it since I always had to think if my voice was there or not there. I could not get a cold. I didn't live for my voice, but surely for my career. And the singing is much more than the nice voice... Discipline is fundamental, like in any profession. I am known for being punctual... one cannot make an orchestra of 100 persons wait. Even today I am disciplined, this is Prussian... One should not chatter so much, it is mostly nonsense. Baritones chat more than tenors, I can do it because I chat with my lower voice, and sing with the higher voice. Some singers after a performance go partying and drinking and chatting, I could not do this because it affected my voice. I learned singing with my mother, I imitated her as a child. Singing came totally natural to me. I had never a problem with her, I am an easy-going person.  Expression is so important, like Callas had. Some singers with great voice can be boring.  One can know what voice a person has by seeing him/her. A tiny woman cannot sing Wagner. Mezzos have short neck, coloraturas have a long neck. Bassos have long necks too. Tenors were traditionally short, but now some are nicely tall. I had a big problem with my nerves, stage freight. Therefore I'm glad I don't need to sing anymore. Finally I took a break after my mother died, away from the hassle of travel and compromises. And I was able to retire in time, while I was at my best.  This is what one should do. I never visited my mother's grave, she is still with me.  I don't believe in burials, my husband died at home, and as soon as he did there was nothing there, his soul had left. This was a positive enrichment of my thinking, I don't want to be buried, we return to where we came from, like the dust of stars we come from.  So no, I don't have a choice of music to play during my burial. When one is as old as I am, what do we want more life for? Death is not a tragedy. What you can wish me?: Health!  Thank you,  thank you."

[InBangkok]

Fascinating! The summary is excellent. Thank you very much for taking the trouble to post that.

[Steve5380]

On 5/11/2021 at 11:14 PM, InBangkok said:

Fascinating! The summary is excellent. Thank you very much for taking the trouble to post that.

 

After so many years of using YouTube, I only now discovered a simple way to understand spoken videos like the one with Christa Ludwig.

 

In the video above,  if one clicks on "watch on YouTube" it will open in a dedicated browser page. On the bottom right side there is a button "CC" that enables automatic generation of subtitles.  This is an internal feature with a voice interpreter that works relatively well and prints the spoken words as subtitles. 

 

Furthermore, there is an hex star button 'settings' that has a "subtitles/cc" item, in this case displaying "German (auto-generated)".  Clicking on this item opens a submenu, and one can select "Auto-translate".  This opens a list of languages to translate the subtitle into, and one can select "English".  This translate feature is not very good,  but it is better than nothing.  When I tried on the Yukio Yokoyama videos spoken in Japanese, some translations were completely hilarious, nearly worthless.  But... the feature is free and immediate.  There are surely more sophisticated translators.

 

And finally, I found that one can adjust the playback speed, to 75%, 50%, 25%,  which I tried to improve the translation but had little effect.

[InBangkok]

Not sure which thread this news item belongs to, but since the incident took place at La Scala this seems the better of the two.

 

The 80-year old Riccardo Muti used to be Music Director at La Scala for 19 years, a post he left in a disgraceful manner. On one recent evening he led the Vienna Philharmonic in a concert to celebrate a famous concert given by Toscanini on the reopening of the Opera House 75 years earlier after World War 2. Perhaps upset that this honour had not been given to him, the present MD at La Scala Riccardo Chailly arranged a concert with his La Scala chorus and orchestra on the previous evening.

 

On the second day, as a mark of respect to his distinguished predecessor, Chailly permitted him to use his own private room backstage - a unique gesture. He then watched the concert from the wings. When the two conductors met backstage, Muti shouted at Chailly, presumably something about his stealing Muti's thunder by scheduling this concert the day before. 

 

At the end of his concert, Muti asked for a microphone. The stage staff refused to provide one. So he proceeded to shout to the audience about the significance of his concert. Allegedly his comments, apart from being rude, were only half-comprehensible and largely irrelevant.

 

End result is that orchestra of La Scala have become so outraged they are refusing to work with Muti again. But Muti has another plan up his sleeve. On the night of the gala opening of the La Scala season on December 7, he plans to present Nabucco in another part of Milan. 

 

I wonder who was the most arrogant and idiotic conductor operatic history?

[InBangkok]

The magazine Opera Now has listed the 10 greatest tenors. In alphabetical order  -

Bjorling

Carreras

Caruso

Corelli

Domingo

Gigli

Kaufmann

Kraus

Pavarotti

Vickers

 

I have heard 5 in performance and would agree with all of them being included. I am not sure if Jonas Kaufmann as the youngest is yet worthy inclusion, despite being a stunning voice (which I have not heard live). In his place I would probably add Carlo Bergonzi on the basis of his recordings and the one live performance I attended. Juan Diego Florez could probably make a list but I expect his voice is regarded as just too lightweight. Heldentenors also seem to have been regarded as too specialist, with only Vickers included on the basis not only of his Wagner but his performances of many other composers. If not, Wolfgang Windgassen must surely have been very close to the list.

 

I find it interesting that there were so many 'almost' great tenors in the last century who were either just short of making the list or in my view never fulfilled their potential. In that list I'd include - Peter Schreier, Nicolai Gedda, Lauritz Melchior, Fritz Wunderlich (despite his early death), Mario Lanza, Tito Schipa, Giuseppe di Stefano, Roberto Alagna, Mario del Monaco, Giacomo Lauri-Volpi, John McCormack, Anthony Rolfe-Johnson, Rolando Villazon, Jose Cura, Jose Calleja, Rene Kollo, James King, Siegfried Jerusalem, Francisco Araiza . . .

 

One often mentioned I would not include on my list - Peter Pears.  Perhaps that's because I only heard him in Billy Budd late in his career when the vibrato was far too pronounced and he could not remember all the words!

 

Who would you have on your list?

[Steve5380]

15 hours ago, InBangkok said:

The magazine Opera Now has listed the 10 greatest tenors. In alphabetical order  -

Bjorling

Carreras

Caruso

Corelli

Domingo

Gigli

Kaufmann

Kraus

Pavarotti

Vickers

 

I have heard 5 in performance and would agree with all of them being included. I am not sure if Jonas Kaufmann as the youngest is yet worthy inclusion, despite being a stunning voice (which I have not heard live). In his place I would probably add Carlo Bergonzi on the basis of his recordings and the one live performance I attended. Juan Diego Florez could probably make a list but I expect his voice is regarded as just too lightweight. Heldentenors also seem to have been regarded as too specialist, with only Vickers included on the basis not only of his Wagner but his performances of many other composers. If not, Wolfgang Windgassen must surely have been very close to the list.

 

I find it interesting that there were so many 'almost' great tenors in the last century who were either just short of making the list or in my view never fulfilled their potential. In that list I'd include - Peter Schreier, Nicolai Gedda, Lauritz Melchior, Fritz Wunderlich (despite his early death), Mario Lanza, Tito Schipa, Giuseppe di Stefano, Roberto Alagna, Mario del Monaco, Giacomo Lauri-Volpi, John McCormack, Anthony Rolfe-Johnson, Rolando Villazon, Jose Cura, Jose Calleja, Rene Kollo, James King, Siegfried Jerusalem, Francisco Araiza . . .

 

One often mentioned I would not include on my list - Peter Pears.  Perhaps that's because I only heard him in Billy Budd late in his career when the vibrato was far too pronounced and he could not remember all the words!

 

Who would you have on your list?

 

One singer left out of your list is Andrea Bocelli.   He sings opera arias, but I don't know if he could sing in a staged opera. He has one of the nicest male voices, and this by itself qualifies him to be in any list of 10 greatest tenors.

 

He is going to sing on October 21 in Houston,  in the sports arena Toyota Center.  There are plenty of tickets available for one person at this time.  But I have some reservations.  I don't know if my sister would come with me, she is not in Houston yet, and the venue is a huge stadium with optional roof. Not an ideal place to appreciate a singing voice, which will have to be heavily amplified there.  Also, I suspect this will be one of the schmaltzy gaudy monstrous events he participates in,  even less an occasion to benefit from closeness to the artist.   I might instead choose to hear him on YouTube again.    

[InBangkok]

9 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

One singer left out of your list is Andrea Bocelli.   He sings opera arias, but I don't know if he could sing in a staged opera. He has one of the nicest male voices, and this by itself qualifies him to be in any list of 10 greatest tenors.

I think others might agree with you. He has indeed sung in several staged operas starting as far back as 1998. But inevitably there had to be an even greater suspension of disbelief for the audience as he basically had to be led around the stage by the other performers. Notwithstanding, good on him for at least trying.

 

If I may suggest, I 'd give his live arena concert performance a miss. I only saw him once in a similar concert in Shanghai. Understandably he needs a second singer to lead him on and offstage and to partner his in quite a few duets. Not sure who that will be in Houston.

 

Yes, everything will be massively amplified similar to all the arena concerts that Pavarotti regularly gave in his last 20 years. And the programme will almost certainly contain a lot of schmaltz and very little opera. Many of the songs will come from his Believe CD. The songs on the album are listed here -

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/classical-playlists/andrea-bocelli-believe/

 

I note from his Believe World Tour site that he will sing 21 arena concerts in little over 2 months. One problem, I'd have thought, is that there are no gaps between several pairs of performances, For example, he sings on consecutive nights in Kansas City and St. Louis, Dallas and Houston, Salt Lake City and Denver, Washington and NYC and other similar pairs. I doubt if any other classical singer would agree to such a schedule without rest days. Pavarotti certainly never did. I just wonder how Bocelli's voice will stand up to the kind of schedule.

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, InBangkok said:

I think others might agree with you. He has indeed sung in several staged operas starting as far back as 1998. But inevitably there had to be an even greater suspension of disbelief for the audience as he basically had to be led around the stage by the other performers. Notwithstanding, good on him for at least trying.

 

If I may suggest, I 'd give his live arena concert performance a miss.

 

I note from his Believe World Tour site that he will sing 21 arena concerts in little over 2 months. One problem, I'd have thought, is that there are no gaps between several pairs of performances, For example, he sings on consecutive nights in Kansas City and St. Louis, Dallas and Houston, Salt Lake City and Denver, Washington and NYC and other similar pairs. I doubt if any other classical singer would agree to such a schedule without rest days. Pavarotti certainly never did. I just wonder how Bocelli's voice will stand up to the kind of schedule.

 

I welcome your suggestion.  What could lead Bocelli to such a hectic schedule?  Is he running out of time to live, or out of money?  21 concerts in 2 months averages to one every three days.  Singing into a microphone may not be too bad, he may not need to use his full voice, he could do it with about the same effort of his daily practice. 

 

I have always kindly looked down on people who have to attend mega-concerts of a favorite artist singing into a microphone, although the allure there is also in the attractive wild dancing and fans screaming at the stage.  I would not find much attractive at Bocelli's stage except his persona.

 

His CD 'Belive' is very nice.  My CD favorite is the "Sacred Arias",  especially Mozart's "Ave Verum Corpus", which he sung for the CD but has disappeared from YouTube not before I downloaded it,  but here is another version he sung for the funeral of Pavarotti:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erfqGxIG5eg

[InBangkok]

18 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

I welcome your suggestion.  What could lead Bocelli to such a hectic schedule?  Is he running out of time to live, or out of money?  21 concerts in 2 months averages to one every three days.  Singing into a microphone may not be too bad, he may not need to use his full voice, he could do it with about the same effort of his daily practice. 

 

I have always kindly looked down on people who have to attend mega-concerts of a favorite artist singing into a microphone, although the allure there is also in the attractive wild dancing and fans screaming at the stage.  I would not find much attractive at Bocelli's stage except his persona.

 

His CD 'Belive' is very nice.  My CD favorite is the "Sacred Arias",  especially Mozart's "Ave Verum Corpus", which he sung for the CD but has disappeared from YouTube not before I downloaded it,  but here is another version he sung for the funeral of Pavarotti:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erfqGxIG5eg

1 concert in 3 days is perfectly doable for most classical singers. Packing pairs of concerts into a long tour isn't. It works for many pop artists where I suppose the pure quality of the voice is less important than for classical singers. The vocal chords need to be protected. I have no idea how Bocelli audiences react nowadays but I expect there will no no dancing and screaming LOL. What drew him to agree such a schedule? Simple. Money! Bocelli has always been known to be very keen on it - lots of it. It seems to be a weakness of tenors.

 

Pavarotti's Concerts Manager, Tibor Rudas, who came out of a casino background and pushed hard to persuade Pavarotti into arenas, generally tried to group 3 concerts for him over 9 or 10 days with a minimum of 2 but more usually 3 days in between. Allowing for travel to whichever part of the world those concerts were taking place, Pavarotti could earn in a two week period ten times more than he could singing 5 performances over the same period at a major Opera House. But that does not take into account the rehearsal period for an opera, for singers do not get paid for rehearsal periods. So with 3 arena concerts he would actually be earning at least 15 times more than singing in 5 opera performances. is it any wonder he was happy to sign contracts for around 20 arena concerts a year?

 

He did always insist, though, that at least 10% of the tickets would be available at around the price of a cinema ticket. He wanted to ensure that cost would not prevent some who had never gone near an opera house but had perhaps heard the name Pavarotti from attending.

 

Then the Three Tenors World Tour starting in 1994 blew those fees sky high. At the Word Cup performances in 1994 and 1998, his total fees including shares of TV relays and CD/DVD sales would have netted him at least $6 million. Even at the other two dozen or so concerts on the World Tour spread over several years, per concert fees started at at least $1 million for each tenor, probably reducing gradually over the years to nearer $600,000.

 

For anyone interested in reading more about the offstage dealings of Pavarotti and the team around him, I throughly recommended the book "The King and I: The Uncensored Tale of Luciano Pavarotti's Rise to Fame by his Manager, Friend and Sometime Adversary". The writer, Herbert Breslin, was his Manager for 36 years until he was fired in 2003. Allegedly his new wife wanted control of his contracts and money. Breslin amusingly gets some of his own back in the book, while always agreeing that Pavarotti was the finest tenor in the world - as well as the world's expert on everything!! This is not a biography. It's more a warts and all sometimes gossipy account of how Breslin made Pavarotti's career and how he interacted with the man who become his Concerts Manager and who really made him into a multi millionaire many times over. It's also as much about Breslin himself, a man many in the music business used to call "the biggest barracuda in the fish tank!"

 

It remains a fascinating read, though. You learn a lot about the opera business and it covers quite of few of the major events in Pavarotti's operatic career. It explains why in 1989 he was banned from ever singing again with the Chicago Lyric Opera; why he agreed to tackle the role of Otello for Solti's Farewell concerts at the Chicago Symphony, a role he could never, ever have performed on stage; and what happened at the opening night of the La Scala season after Muti invited him to sing another role he had never tackled before, Don Carlo, and he cracked a high note. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/King-Uncensored-Pavarottis-Sometime-Adversary/product-reviews/0767915089/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_show_all_btm?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews

Edited May 27, 2021 by InBangkok

[Steve5380]

4 hours ago, InBangkok said:

 

1 concert in 3 days is perfectly doable for most classical singers. Packing pairs of concerts into a long tour isn't. It works for many pop artists where I suppose the pure quality of the voice is less important than for classical singers. The vocal chords need to be protected. I have no idea how Bocelli audiences react nowadays but I expect there will no no dancing and screaming LOL. What drew him to agree such a schedule? Simple. Money! Bocelli has always been known to be very keen on it - lots of it. It seems to be a weakness of tenors.

 

 

I agree with you that the motivation is money.  They already have all the fame and recognition they can get. I won't have my conscience compromised then when I hear them for free,  like I hear most of classical music.

[heman]

On 5/27/2021 at 5:43 PM, InBangkok said:

1 concert in 3 days is perfectly doable for most classical singers.

Agreed if the singers keep to works like Mozart, Bach and Handel for they need not "fight" with the orchestra. These are actually good elixirs to clear the vocal chords so unlike Wagner , Puccini , Verdi and Richard Strauss works where the orchestrations are very heavy. 

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, heman said:

Agreed if the singers keep to works like Mozart, Bach and Handel for they need not "fight" with the orchestra. These are actually good elixirs to clear the vocal chords so unlike Wagner , Puccini , Verdi and Richard Strauss works where the orchestrations are very heavy. 

 

Bocelli is singing not in an opera house but in mega-events with huge everything.   But surely they are careful not to cover his voice with the sound of the orchestra.   And he sings mostly "elixirs to clear his vocal cords",  and he sings into a microphone that can offer unlimited amplification.  So he should be safe.

[heman]

On 5/31/2021 at 3:38 AM, Steve5380 said:

Bocelli is singing not in an opera house but in mega-events

My apology for i am not familiar with Bocelli. By the way i prefer a baritone rather than a tenor . Likewise i prefer a mezosoprano than a soprano.

[Steve5380]

On 6/5/2021 at 9:36 AM, heman said:

My apology for i am not familiar with Bocelli. By the way i prefer a baritone rather than a tenor . Likewise i prefer a mezosoprano than a soprano.

 

No apology needed.  I also heard of Bocelli only recently, through the pandemic.  And I also prefer the lower voice registers.

[heman]

baritones are sexy and seductive in tone :)

 

[Derren]

You guys are so knowledgeable! 👏👏👏

[Steve5380]

On 6/13/2021 at 10:40 PM, Derren said:

You guys are so knowledgeable! 👏👏👏

 

More knowledgeable are the people who make the music, more than those who listen to it. 

[InBangkok]

On 6/5/2021 at 9:36 PM, heman said:

My apology for i am not familiar with Bocelli. By the way i prefer a baritone rather than a tenor . Likewise i prefer a mezosoprano than a soprano.

Bocelli did not come to anyone's attention until he was 36 when he won a singing competition. Before then he had largely sung in piano bars and taken part in competitions. Having been blind since the age of 12, life must have been hard for him as he tried to get a step on the slippery ladder of professional classical music. I first heard him on TV when he sang a rather nice commercial for the opening of the Bellagio Hotel in Las Vegas in late 1998. That was aired worldwide. Before then he had come to the attention of Sarah Brightman with whom he sang the duet "Time to Say Goodbye". Sales were phenomenal and beat all known records.

 

He has tried to sing opera and has appeared in a few productions. But not being able to move naturally because he can not see, the inevitable compromises made them less than satisfactory. On the other hand, promoters were looking for a successor to the three more famous tenors Carreras, Domingo and Pavarotti. Regular concerts were never going to make him much money But with the quality of his voice he was a natural for arena concerts. These concerts have made him and the team around him fortunes. Now aged 62 he presumably has another 10 or so high earning years ahead of him.

 

Starting so late as a professional, the voice had some problems with intonation. But he worked and overcame these. Pavarotti was a friend and Bocelli was the only tenor to sing at his funeral.

[Steve5380]

Just a musical moment enjoying a baritone voice.  This is Leonard Warren singing "Eri tu che macchiavi" from Verdi's Un Ballo in Maschera.  An aria that I also learned to sing.

 

It's amazing what a good sound comes from a 78 rpm disk,  and what a nice voice of this great baritone who so tragically passed away prematurely.

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Steve5380

[Derren]

On 6/20/2021 at 11:09 PM, InBangkok said:

Bocelli did not come to anyone's attention until he was 36 when he won a singing competition. Before then he had largely sung in piano bars and taken part in competitions. Having been blind since the age of 12, life must have been hard for him as he tried to get a step on the slippery ladder of professional classical music. I first heard him on TV when he sang a rather nice commercial for the opening of the Bellagio Hotel in Las Vegas in late 1998. That was aired worldwide. Before then he had come to the attention of Sarah Brightman with whom he sang the duet "Time to Say Goodbye". Sales were phenomenal and beat all known records.

 

He has tried to sing opera and has appeared in a few productions. But not being able to move naturally because he can not see, the inevitable compromises made them less than satisfactory. On the other hand, promoters were looking for a successor to the three more famous tenors Carreras, Domingo and Pavarotti. Regular concerts were never going to make him much money But with the quality of his voice he was a natural for arena concerts. These concerts have made him and the team around him fortunes. Now aged 62 he presumably has another 10 or so high earning years ahead of him.

 

Starting so late as a professional, the voice had some problems with intonation. But he worked and overcame these. Pavarotti was a friend and Bocelli was the only tenor to sing at his funeral.

 

Not a fan of Bocelli. He does not sound quite like an operatic tenor to me. His tone, though sweet, sounds thin and not well-supported to me. 

[heman]

I just managed to watch the remarkable Kiri te Kanawa in her role of Richard Strauss' Arabella and Rosenkavalier past few days from my DVD collections conducted by  Thielemann and Solti  respectively. Though these are old recordings they are never dated especially Kiri in the final trio of the Rosenkavalier with the heavenly innocent sound of  Barbara Bonney as Sophie. Most times i prefer production done in the traditional decor and style. 

I just cannot stand when these operas are done in extremely contemporary style where the artistic directors go overboard. The essences seem too be lost. Well it is just my simple opinion.

Edited July 3, 2021 by heman

[InBangkok]

On 7/1/2021 at 4:46 PM, heman said:

I just managed to watch the remarkable Kiri te Kanawa in her role of Richard Strauss' Arabella and Rosenkavalier past few days from my DVD collections conducted by  Thielemann and Solti  respectively. Though these are old recordings they are never dated especially Kiri in the final trio of the Rosenkavalier with the heavenly innocent sound of  Barbara Bonney as Sophie. Most times i prefer production done in the traditional decor and style. 

I just cannot stand when these operas are done in extremely contemporary style where the artistic directors go overboard. The essences seem too be lost. Well it is just my simple opinion.

I cannot agree with you more about certain opera productions being updated. Some do work. I saw an Edinburgh Festival production of Henze's Elegy for Young Lovers directed by Henze himself. It was not a work I knew at that time but I was fascinated by it, firstly by the scenery. Ralph Koltai was one of Europe's great production designers. Some were conventional, but many were much more avant grade. For the Henze, he had used scaffolding with square blocks of plastic set amongst it. With imaginative lighting it gave both a stunning feeling of the mountain and a more intimate warm feeling of the inn.

 

Rosenkavalier is definitely not one that should be tampered with. Glyndebourne Festival Opera recently mounted what I considered a dreadful production by one of the enfants terribles of modern opera production, Richard Jones. This was one of the least 'offensive' scenes –

 

 

The last production I saw was in Dresden with Thielemann and his marvellous Staatskapelle Dresden in the pit. The singers, too, were excellent. SO musically it was a glorious evening in a glorious House. But my partner and i really disliked the production. The director had updated the action to the 1950s. When the Presentation of the Rose was carried out with a press pack of reporters and photographers with old style bulb-pop-out cameras, I just shut my eyes. Not surprisingly some of the German reviewers loved it, one even calling it "a brilliant, heart warming and delightful production."

 

As for the Marschallin and Sophie, I also doubt if any sopranos could top Kiri Te Kanawa and Barbara Bonney. 

[Steve5380]

On 6/30/2021 at 7:17 PM, Derren said:

 

Not a fan of Bocelli. He does not sound quite like an operatic tenor to me. His tone, though sweet, sounds thin and not well-supported to me. 

 

He does not need to be an operatic tenor.   There are so many venues for a singer to excel that are not operas.  I find that his voice has a perfect timbre and intonation, to the point that some call it "the voice of god", and he sustains notes with excellent breathing. 

[Derren]

On 7/15/2021 at 9:20 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

He does not need to be an operatic tenor.   There are so many venues for a singer to excel that are not operas.  I find that his voice has a perfect timbre and intonation, to the point that some call it "the voice of god", and he sustains notes with excellent breathing. 

 

Indeed. As a crossover, he certainly is a success story. However, this is an opera queen thread after all...... 😂

[InBangkok]

Let's remember a true opera singer in the absolute prime of his career. It sometimes comes as a surprise that the great Pavarotti died almost 14 years ago. The last concerts he ever sang before a paying public were here in Asia - Shanghai, Beijing and Taichung in December 2005, the last before 20,000 cheering supporters. I wonder if any readers were at the concert he gave in Singapore's Indoor Stadium when he sang magnificently. I think this was around 1993.

 

By then his voice had darkened a little and had lost the freshness of his great early years. Thanks to his performing the role of Tonio in Donizetti's Fille du Regiment, he became a sensation in his debut in the role at the Met Opera in New York in early 1972. In fact he had made his debut in that role six years earlier at the Royal Opera in London with Dame Joan Sutherland. It was Dame Joan who wanted him to sing the role with her at the Met. 

 

I cannot find a video of "Pour mon ame", the end of the aria with the nine high Cs that gave Pavarotti his nickname "King of the High Cs". But this radio broadcast from the Met that year illustrates how stunning these were (although please bear in mind that microphone placing for radio broadcasts were never ideal).

 

 

One of the few tenors who easily take that role today is Juan Diego Florez. This is part of a video relay made in 2007. 

 

 

More recently at the Met the role was taken by Javier Camarena. It's a pleasant voice but totally without the presence and Italianate quality of Pavarotti, even though he gets the high Cs easily. It illustrates the difficulty Opera Houses have in casting the role.

 

 

 

[InBangkok]

How sad that the world of opera has lost one of its finest directors with the death yesterday of Sir Graham Vick. He died aged 67 from complications resulting from covid19.

 

Vick was always a controversial director even though many of his major productions were what we might call "more mainstream". His production of Falstaff with Bryn Terfel and conducted by Bernard Haitink which opened the newly renovated Royal Opera House in December 1999 was lavishly praised. He worked all over the world in all the major Opera Houses and Festivals. In one recent interview he said he only spent about two weeks of each year at home, so much was he in demand. 9 years ago he produced an updated version of Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov at the Mariinsky in St. Petersburg with Putin's friend Valery Gergiev conducting. Vick had updated it to the present day and Godunov was clearly depicted as a version of Putin. Many in the audience recognised the major scenes of social unrest they had just been seeing in the streets of Moscow when riot police attacked protestors, just as Vick portrayed the treatment of the ordinary starving people wanting rid of Godunov in the opera. The quintessential Russian opera by two of its greatest artists Mussorgsky and Pushkin and conducted by a quintessential modern-day regime-backing Russian produced by a left-wing Englishman. It caused a sensation.

 

Gay since his school years, Sir Graham was single when he died having recently parted ways with his partner.

Edited July 18, 2021 by InBangkok

[heman]

On 7/18/2021 at 12:40 PM, InBangkok said:

Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov at the Mariinsky in St. Petersburg with Putin's friend Valery Gergiev conducting.

I was amazed by Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov on first hearing years ago and i managed to secure the DVD conducted by Gergiev with Robert Lloyd in the very tragic title role (Phillips label).It was based on the complete 1872 version and filmed at the Mariinsky Theatre in 1990. To me this is the gold standard of this opera. No doubt it is a lengthy work , once you got absorbed into it you wont feel the length. 

[InBangkok]

13 hours ago, heman said:

I was amazed by Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov on first hearing years ago and i managed to secure the DVD conducted by Gergiev with Robert Lloyd in the very tragic title role (Phillips label).It was based on the complete 1872 version and filmed at the Mariinsky Theatre in 1990. To me this is the gold standard of this opera. No doubt it is a lengthy work , once you got absorbed into it you wont feel the length. 

Boris is a stunning, shattering work. I have heard Robert Lloyd on a number of occasions, although not in this role. His rich dark bass is a gorgeous sound. I heard only the Scottish bass baritone David Ward and the Canadian bass Joseph Rouleau in the role. Both were wonderful, but neither voice had the richness of Lloyd's.

 

That production on your DVD originated in 1983 at the Royal Opera House when it was produced by the film director Andrei Tarkovsky. Gergiev liked it so much he was determined to take it to what was then the Kirov. But Tarkovsky died. So when the production finally arrived in St. Petersburg, it was directed by the assistant director on Tarkovsky's production, Stephen Lawless. Lawless has since become a famous opera director in his own right. The other day I was listening to an hour-long podcast interview he gave two years ago when directing Nozze di Figaro in the USA. He told a lovely story about that St. Petersburg production.

 

When asked to revive Tarkovsky's production, he agreed on one condition - that Robert Lloyd sing Boris. Gergiev agreed. At the first rehearsal, Stephen said it was somewhat intimidating to find five of the Soviet Union's finest basses, all of whom had sung Boris, sitting in the stalls. Clearly they were there to find fault in the interpretation of an 'English' Boris. Yet by the end of the rehearsal they all applauded Lloyd as they recognised his superb interpretation.

[Steve5380]

On 7/20/2021 at 8:57 AM, heman said:

I was amazed by Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov on first hearing years ago and i managed to secure the DVD conducted by Gergiev with Robert Lloyd in the very tragic title role (Phillips label).It was based on the complete 1872 version and filmed at the Mariinsky Theatre in 1990. To me this is the gold standard of this opera. No doubt it is a lengthy work , once you got absorbed into it you wont feel the length. 

 

I also think this is a good version.  The DVD is available at Amazon,  but the video is also uploaded to YouTube (I think it is the same...), with good video and sound. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-DEktB73Pk

 

I watched it for a while here and there until I got tired of so much tragedy,  and then I changed to another work of Mussorgsky which I like very much:  Pictures at an Exhibition (in its piano version)

.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Steve5380

[Steve5380]

Given that it is not much new that can be written about traditional classical opera, or something good about modern opera, I like to contribute with a reference to a master work of Mendelssohn that is not given proper attention.  Mendelssohn did not write what some consider an opera, but this work has all the elements of it,  singing by soloists and choir, an orchestra, and a libretto with drama.  As I always find in his music, this work is full of musicality of the highest tonal quality, plenty of it since it lasts for about two hours!

 

This video does not include animation, but I like it because it shows the magnificent interior of the Brixter Dom, and has subtitles describing the libretto: 

 

 

 

A similar excellent work is Mendelssohn's Oratorio Paulus, also two hours long.  Mendelssohn must have had an inexhaustible amount of music in his head! Seeing these performances makes me wish to sing in a choir again.