Opera appreciations and discussion

[hard pecs]

16 hours ago, InBangkok said:

 

I note that Turnage did not write his own libretto. For a while in the 1970s it seemed to be a fashion for some composers to write their own libretti.

It is not easy to write the music and the words. Wagner was one of few who did. Most opera composers through the ages have worked closely with librettists. Strauss’s Capriccio explored this relationship (he part wrote the libretto with Krauss) - a wonderful work to listen to on a lazy Sunday afternoon. I was lucky enough to have seen Kiri Te Kanawa in it with costumes and set by Gianni Versace. Not sure if you guys have seen Written on Skin (George Benjamin), Thebans (Julian Anderson) or Dr Atomic (John Adams) - all with really good word settings with intriguing music.

[InBangkok]

Just for info, here are some of the daily relays from the Metropolitan Opera. Especially interesting in the next few days. Each is available for 23 hours starting at 7:30pm New York time. So the start time in Singapore is 13 hours earlier.

 

They are available via the Met Opera on Demand apps on Apple, Amazon and several others. You can access the material without logging in. For apps connected to a TV, click “Browse and Preview” in the apps and “Explore the App” on tablets and mobile devices.

 

Wed 11: Puccini Fanciulla del West with Deborah Voigt conducted Luisotti

Thurs 12: Berg Lulu various artists in including Marlis Petersen and Susan Graham conducted Koenigs

Fri 13:  Britten Peter Grimes with Patricia Racette and Anthony Michaels Moore conducted by Donald Runnicles

Sat 14 Glass Akhnaten conducted by Kamensek

Sun 15 Ades The Exterminating Angel conducted by Ades

Mon 16 Verdi Don Carlo with Poplavskaya, Alagna, Keenlyside and Furlanetto conducted by Nezet-Seguin

Tues 17 Gounod Faust with Poplavskaya, Kaufmann and Pape conducted Nezet-Seguin

Wed 18 Dvorak Rusalka with Fleming and others conducted Nezet-Seguin

Thurs 19 Verdi La Traviata with Damian and Flores conducted Nezet-Seguin

Fri 20 Poulenc Dialogues des Carmelites with Karita Mattia conductor Nezet-Seguin

Sat 21 Puccini Turandot conducted by Nezet-Seguin

Sun 22 Berg Wozzeck conducted by Nezet-Seguin

 

Notes for your diary -

 

Mon 23 Verdi Il Trovatore with Radvanovsky, Alvarez and Hvorovstovsky conducted by Armiliato

Wed 25 Thomas Hamlet with Larmore, Keenlyside and Morris conducted by Langree

Thurs 26 Strauss Electra with Stemme, Meier and Owens conductor Esa-Pekka Salonen

Sat 28 Wagner Die Walkure with Goerke, Skelton and others conductor Philippe Jordan (from 2019)

Sun 29 Verdi Simon Boccanegra with Te Kanawa, Domingo, Lloyd conducted Levine

Wed Dec 2 Wagner Parsifal with Kaufmann and Pape conductor Gatti

Thurs 3 Verdi Macbeth with Netrebko, Valleja, Pape conductor Luisi

 

Full details at

https://www.metopera.org/user-information/nightly-met-opera-streams/

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by InBangkok

[InBangkok]

1 hour ago, hard pecs said:

It is not easy to write the music and the words. Wagner was one of few who did. Most opera composers through the ages have worked closely with librettists. Strauss’s Capriccio explored this relationship (he part wrote the libretto with Krauss) - a wonderful work to listen to on a lazy Sunday afternoon. I was lucky enough to have seen Kiri Te Kanawa in it with costumes and set by Gianni Versace. Not sure if you guys have seen Written on Skin (George Benjamin), Thebans (Julian Anderson) or Dr Atomic (John Adams) - all with really good word settings with intriguing music.

 

I think the problem with composers who write their own libretti is twofold - a failure to organize their dramatic thoughts concisely and to CUT (da Ponte and Boito please come back!)! I suppose we are all so used to Wagner we forgive him his constant repetitions. But some contemporary composers clearly find it difficult to cut phrases and characters that are not essential to the plot and perhaps want to extend music that is special to them when it also could be cut. Today this is important because union agreements mean substantial overtime payments if performances run over a certain limit.

 

Capriccio is indeed special. I believe Krauss wrote most of the libretto but what does that matter in a work of genius. Although it involves no singing, I adore the Moonlight music towards the end with its gorgeous horn solo and meandering tonalities.

 

 

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, hard pecs said:

It is not easy to write the music and the words. Wagner was one of few who did. Most opera composers through the ages have worked closely with librettists. Strauss’s Capriccio explored this relationship (he part wrote the libretto with Krauss) - a wonderful work to listen to on a lazy Sunday afternoon. I was lucky enough to have seen Kiri Te Kanawa in it with costumes and set by Gianni Versace. Not sure if you guys have seen Written on Skin (George Benjamin), Thebans (Julian Anderson) or Dr Atomic (John Adams) - all with really good word settings with intriguing music.

 

Musical composition and poetry are different skills.  Composers of lieder and other vocal music were inspired by certain poems that they considered worthy of their music and were not of their making.  This great poem from Schiller "Ode to Joy" surely inspired Beethoven in his composition of the choral symphony. 

 

I find it rare to gain emotions from the words of a song.  It is usually the melody and the quality of the singing what impresses me,  and the words, if they become recognizable, don't matter much what they are. This is why I enjoy equally an opera from Mozart in German, which I understand, or in Italian, which I don't understand much. 

 

Even more irrelevant I find the text of popular songs, which I can hear many times before I realize what they are about.  It does not matter,  singing is music, and music is what I care about.

[InBangkok]

4 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Musical composition and poetry are different skills.  Composers of lieder and other vocal music were inspired by certain poems that they considered worthy of their music and were not of their making.

Yet again this post immediately goes off on a tangent and it has virtually little to do with opera. An understanding of the text is vital in lieder as it sets the mood and tone for each song. But it’s far more important in opera. If you don’t understand the words in an opera, it is hard to determine how and why the composer not only sets the mood but why he makes many changes in both mood, harmony, tonality and rhythm to reflect the feelings of the characters of stage - often sudden. The music derives from the text.

Edited November 10, 2020 by InBangkok

[hard pecs]

6 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

I find it rare to gain emotions from the words of a song

Do you sing?

[Steve5380]

5 hours ago, hard pecs said:

Do you sing?

 

I took private singing lessons for many years with a professor of the University of Houston School of Music who had been a professional opera singer trained at the Julliard school.  My main objective was to improve my voice, and on the way I learned to appreciate so many works of vocal art!  Numerous lieder from Schubert, Hugo Wolf, Schumann, Mendelssohn, and several arias from Wagner and other operas.   I learned that the voice is just one more musical instrument,  a quite difficult one because it is invisible and inaccessible,  so the voice is trained by many indirect ways involving the mind.  About the words in songs,  what is important in singing are the phonemes, not the words themselves.

[Steve5380]

14 hours ago, InBangkok said:

Yet again this post immediately goes off on a tangent and it has virtually little to do with opera. An understanding of the text is vital in lieder as it sets the mood and tone for each song. But it’s far more important in opera. If you don’t understand the words in an opera, it is hard to determine how and why the composer not only sets the mood but why he makes many changes in both mood, harmony, tonality and rhythm to reflect the feelings of the characters of stage - often sudden. The music derives from the text.

 

You are always right of course, but I might venture to make some observations.

 

First, thanks for your word "tangent" which brought to my mind my studies of geometry and trigonometry, which I liked very much.  Simple subject on the plane, but becoming complicated very fast in three and more dimensions.

 

About the text of lieder,  I don't quite understand its relevance in the enjoyment of an opera.  You must be a polyglot, able to understand the spoken German, Italian, French, Spanish, Russian, just to mention a few.  You won't recognize the words in a Wagner opera unless you speak German,  which you surely do.  For the less than extraordinary people, the Opera Houses have a kind solution in the form of a brochure that includes a synopsis of the libretto in the local language.  We read this brochure before each act and hope to remember the story as the singing goes on. 

 

I have to confess that I enjoy more the operas where I don't understand the words.  My favorite The Marriage of Figaro is in Italian, and I get so emotional during its fantastic arias, without any idea of what they sing about.  For example, this divine aria Dove Sono that gives me goosebumps each time I hear it, has these words:

 

Dove sono i bei momenti
di dolcezza e di piacer,
dove andaro i giuramenti
di quel labbro menzogner?
Perché mai se in pianti e in pene
per me tutto si cangiò,
la memoria di quel bene
dal mio sen non trapassò?
Ah! Se almen la mia costanza

nel languire amando ognor,
mi portasse una speranza
di cangiar l'ingrato cor.

 

I doubt that any Italian can extract much meaning of the aria in the words he may recognize in the singing.  And he does not need it.  It is sufficient to have a vague idea about them.  Reading the text gives me some idea, because Italian is so close to Spanish,  but I would never get it from hearing the singing.

.
 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Steve5380

[wilfgene]

It never occurred to me to read 'Lucia'.

 

[Steve5380]

Gentlemen,  be prepared to hear one of the most extraordinary musical compositions of all times.  Its Overture, written by a 17 year old kid (!!!) has, in my humble opinion, the highest concentration of musicality of all compositions I know about, the highest and finest musical content in its mere 12 minutes of duration.  What follows is mostly known as "incidental music" but has all the elements of an Opera: an orchestra, singing from choir and soloist singers, and a Drama which is a comedy from Shakespeare.  I am ready to place Mendelssohn's Ein Sommernachtstraum  together with Bach's Matthew's Passion in a class of itself, at the top of the musical pyramid only second to Beethoven's 9th.

 

 

 

In the above video, the conductor Jaavo Jarvi goes for a fast tempo,  which is fine if he is time constrained.  But I find that some of the fine nuances of the Overture don't get enough time to emerge when played in a rush.  I much prefer a version by Kurt Masur directing the Gewndhausorchestra in Leipzig.  I post here this video because it is worth to notice the difference. (this is the Overture to an Opera, so it should be fine here  )

 

 

 

 

 

And it gets even better:  There is a Sommernachtstraum Ballet, the first one choreographed by George Balanchine to Mendelssohn's music.  The following video is an excerpt of this  Operatic Ballet  (or Danced Opera), performed by the Paris Opera Ballet.  I believe that  this video is limited to the Incidental Music part of Mendelssohn's music in Balanchine's ballet:

 

 

I feel increasing attraction to ballet that is choreographed to classical music,  orchestral or ballet.  After this attraction started long ago with the ballet Les Sylphides, it got stronger some months ago with Bejart's 9th Symphony ballet. Perfect combinations of the visual and the audible.  

 

And it gets still better:  another danced Somernachtstraum  for an audience appreciative of male beauty, with some simple, natural costumes   

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Steve5380

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, wilfgene said:

It never occurred to me to read 'Lucia'.

 

 

It never occurred to me either.  'Lucia' comes from the Latin, meaning 'light'.

 

Maybe you mean "Lucia di Lammermoor" ?   But this Lucia died a long time ago, according to Donizetti's librettist.  And I would not read 'Lucia',  because her story is as tragic as the one of Romeo and Julieta 

 

[InBangkok]

8 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

I have to confess that I enjoy more the operas where I don't understand the words.  My favorite The Marriage of Figaro is in Italian, and I get so emotional during its fantastic arias, without any idea of what they sing about.  For example, this divine aria Dove Sono that gives me goosebumps each time I hear it, has these words:

Before this thread descends further away from its starter’s intent, I make two short comments.

 

1. You clearly have not been to a live performance for quite a long time. Most companies now have supertitles above the proscenium arch. I believe at the Met there is a device set into the back of seats. A quick glance at either provides a very good idea of what is being sung.

 

2. You quoted Dove sono but even in that one aria there is more than one emotion being expressed. Equally, take Donna Anna’s recitative and the following aria Or sai chi l’honore from Don Giovanni. I won’t go into detail for the text is there for all to read on wikipedia. After Donna Anna’s outburst to Don Ottavio at the realization that Giovanni was her attacker, there is a very different passage in the recitative when she is describing her revulsion at the detail of the attack. But the music underneath those words is so sensuous, so full of longing, so totally different it becomes perfectly clear that she actually enjoyed Giovanni’s advances.

 

The point? Anna, the pillar of rectitude, gave in to her feelings and she can not forgive herself for that. When she discovered that she actually knew her so-called attacker, she calls out. She has shamed herself and as a direct result of her weakness led directly to the death of her father. So she is after vengeance both for herself and her father. An understanding of that scene demands a knowledge of both text and music for it is at the dramatic core of opera. Elvira forgives, Zerlina forgets. Anna can do neither.

[Steve5380]

10 minutes ago, InBangkok said:

Before this thread descends further away from its starter’s intent, I make two short comments.

 

1. You clearly have not been to a live performance for quite a long time. Most companies now have supertitles above the proscenium arch. I believe at the Met there is a device set into the back of seats. A quick glance at either provides a very good idea of what is being sung.

 

 

Your post is exactly what makes this thread descend even further away from a cordial conversation about the subject of opera.  From the beginning, from your first post that you directed at me saying that what I had posted does not belong here blah, blah, blah,  you have incited controversy.  What is wrong with you ???  Did you develop an ulcer?

 

I started the thread Instrumental Music 2 in 2016.  You came to this thread and you were welcomed.  You posted there all sorts of videos of non instrumental music, including operas, ballets, you posted your personal photos,  and you were never told that you should not post what you had posted. Instead, you had your posts "liked" like many others. 

 

Now you want to portray me as old fashioned?  I am very familiar with advances in technology and its use in music.  There are concerts of piano recitals where a display shows the view from above of the keyboard being played,  something nice for a poor fellow sitting in the back right corner of the hall.  I have installed on my practice piano a big monitor on the sheet music stand and now I have replaced paper sheet music with its equivalent in  jpg and pdf files, stored on a computer set up besides the piano.  My main desktop computer has two big monitors, and I could watch an opera from a youtube video on one of them while reading the libretto on the other one, if I wish.

 

52 minutes ago, InBangkok said:

 

2. You quoted Dove sono but even in that one aria there is more than one emotion being expressed. Equally, take Donna Anna’s recitative and the following aria Or sai chi l’honore from Don Giovanni. I won’t go into detail for the text is there for all to read on wikipedia. After Donna Anna’s outburst to Don Ottavio at the realization that Giovanni was her attacker, there is a very different passage in the recitative when she is describing her revulsion at the detail of the attack. But the music underneath those words is so sensuous, so full of longing, so totally different it becomes perfectly clear that she actually enjoyed Giovanni’s advances.

 

The point? Anna, the pillar of rectitude, gave in to her feelings and she can not forgive herself for that. When she discovered that she actually knew her so-called attacker, she calls out. She has shamed herself and as a direct result of her weakness led directly to the death of her father. So she is after vengeance both for herself and her father. An understanding of that scene demands a knowledge of both text and music for it is at the dramatic core of opera. Elvira forgives, Zerlina forgets. Anna can do neither.

 

 

I find very few versions of "Or sai chi l'honore" that I like.  It must be difficult to sing.  But one version is outstanding: by Margaret Price, of course:

 

 

The words she sings during the aria are difficult to distinguish.  If you concentrate on these words, it means that you don't have the inborn attraction to music and the beauty of sound that does not let any distraction like words and libretto capture the attention.  This music is unique and extremely valuable.  Sentimental dramas and romances can be read from so many paperbacks, and soap operas can be watched on TV.

 

[InBangkok]

If anyone is able to see the Met relays of Akhnaten, Peter Grimes and Lulu in the next few days, it would be great to hear your views.

Edited November 11, 2020 by InBangkok

[hard pecs]

Is the Met screening Akhenaten? That’d great. I think the opera represents the height of Glass’s minimalist period. His subsequent works got a little more “melodic”.  Highly recommended. 

[hard pecs]

Singapore peeps - are there cinema screenings of Live from the Met here?

[Steve5380]

3 minutes ago, hard pecs said:

Singapore peeps - are there cinema screenings of Live from the Met here?

 

These Live from the Met streaming seems to be an evolutionary step in watching performances.  No need to go to New York to the Metropolitan Opera but one can watch it in the comfort of one's home while eating some chocolate ice cream  (oops, that's me...).   I have not streamed any performance yet, so my question is:  how is this streaming different from watching the videos on youtube?

[InBangkok]

13 minutes ago, hard pecs said:

Singapore peeps - are there cinema screenings of Live from the Met here?

I know there are in Hong Kong but sorry I do not know about Singapore. The list I posted earlier is the daily list being screened during the pandemic. The screening of Akhenaten starts in Singapore at 06:30 on Friday and will last for 23 hours. For details please see my post of yesterday morning.

[hard pecs]

There is something interesting about the Met live stream in cinemas. I have been to a couple and what I noticed was that people did dress up a little, and there was the usual mingling during the interval - chatters and drinks. But also the audience’s attentiveness during the performance was very good. The time zone thing obviously is tricky with Singapore.
 

Until COVID, I have mostly watched opera performances live. My ears are, fortunately / unfortunately tuned to live instruments and voices. Not to mention no two performances are identical. I recall singing in a performance of Aida under Zubin Mehta years ago. Two concert performances, identical cast, completely different on stage atmosphere. If I have the choice, I’d always opt for live. 

While COVID continues to impact on live opera performances, I guess we need to support the houses that are putting on these pre-recorded performances. So will try to tune into Akhenaten ...

[InBangkok]

I have never been myself but know friends who go quite regularly. You are right. Most attendees seem to regard them as an occasion. I am told the large screens and high definition digital sound do certainly help to convey the atmosphere found in the opera house as the performance is being relayed. 
 

I was at one of the ‘live’ performances of Turandot which Mehta conducted in Beijing’s Forbidden City about 22 years ago. The ‘star’ of the performance was less Mehta and his Florence Opera forces and much more Zhang Yimou’s wonderful production. Being in that setting with the Palace as the stage and a lovely gentle breeze blowing in from the west made it a very special evening. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by InBangkok

[Steve5380]

6 hours ago, hard pecs said:

There is something interesting about the Met live stream in cinemas. I have been to a couple and what I noticed was that people did dress up a little, and there was the usual mingling during the interval - chatters and drinks. But also the audience’s attentiveness during the performance was very good. The time zone thing obviously is tricky with Singapore.
 

Until COVID, I have mostly watched opera performances live. My ears are, fortunately / unfortunately tuned to live instruments and voices. Not to mention no two performances are identical. I recall singing in a performance of Aida under Zubin Mehta years ago. Two concert performances, identical cast, completely different on stage atmosphere. If I have the choice, I’d always opt for live. 

While COVID continues to impact on live opera performances, I guess we need to support the houses that are putting on these pre-recorded performances. So will try to tune into Akhenaten ...

 

The Met live stream in cinemas is something new to me.  I can see this as a positive evolution away from real life performance in that it expands the audience beyond the few who got tickets to the occasion.  And since it is transmitted remotely,  it has to be converted to digital form and surely recorded.  In this respect, I go back to my previous question: what makes this new form different from DVDs and videos watched on youtube?

 

I see little relevance in the time aspect, with no difference between watching in real time and at a future time.  It is not news like a political debate in the US which we want to watch live or shortly thereafter.

 

You say that your ears are tuned to LIVE instruments and voices.  Let me ask you:  besides singing, do you play a musical instrument?  Unlike the voice which can have noticeable changes from one day to another,  instrument objects are invariant.  A piano will always sound the same,  assuming that it is kept in tune.  But a voice wanders.

[hard pecs]

9 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

Let me ask you:  besides singing, do you play a musical instrument?  Unlike the voice which can have noticeable changes from one day to another,  instrument objects are invariant.  A piano will always sound the same,  assuming that it is kept in tune.  But a voice wanders.

I sing (my teacher is from the Royal Academy of Music), I play the piano, pipe organ and double bass. The voice / touch of a piano changes due to a number of factors such as humidity and temperature. I have my own tuning kit because it goes out more quickly than you realise. 
 

Back to opera. A live performance on stage is exciting - because the performers and audience know everyone night is different. That’s where operatic magic happens. I remember seeing La Rondine with Roberto Alagna and Angela Gheorgieu - their duet in Act 2 was spine-tinglingly good. Admittedly it was first night (first time ever staged at the Royal Opera) so there was that extra excitement. Or seeing Franco Zeffirelli’s production of Tosca for the last time was poignant - as I’d seen some of the best singers in the world on that set - including Solti conducting one of them. The set and costumes were sold to Chicago Lyric Opera. According to the news, there was a clause in the sale contract giving the Royal Opera the right to rent the set back should the new London production be disastrous! 
 

I have an open mind and have watched operas in cinemas and on a big tv screens. Somehow the effect is not the same. Recently I watched Die Meistersinger on YouTube from Glyndebourne. While it was lovely to see that during lock down in SG, it didn’t compare to seeing it live (I think I saw the first night) at Glyndebourne watching Vladimir Jurowski at the helm. The set was vivid and three dimensional, the direction was wonderful (you expect nothing less from McVicar). Gerald Finley was Hans Sachs - amazing character portrayal.

 

Sadly for now, most houses are shuttered. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by hard pecs

[Steve5380]

2 hours ago, hard pecs said:

I sing (my teacher is from the Royal Academy of Music), I play the piano, pipe organ and double bass. The voice / touch of a piano changes due to a number of factors such as humidity and temperature. I have my own tuning kit because it goes out more quickly than you realise. 
 

Back to opera. A live performance on stage is exciting - because the performers and audience know everyone night is different. That’s where operatic magic happens. I remember seeing La Rondine with Roberto Alagna and Angela Gheorgieu - their duet in Act 2 was spine-tinglingly good. Admittedly it was first night (first time ever staged at the Royal Opera) so there was that extra excitement. Or seeing Franco Zeffirelli’s production of Tosca for the last time was poignant - as I’d seen some of the best singers in the world on that set - including Solti conducting one of them. The set and costumes were sold to Chicago Lyric Opera. According to the news, there was a clause in the sale contract giving the Royal Opera the right to rent the set back should the new London production be disastrous! 
 

I have an open mind and have watched operas in cinemas and on a big tv screens. Somehow the effect is not the same. Recently I watched Die Meistersinger on YouTube from Glyndebourne. While it was lovely to see that during lock down in SG, it didn’t compare to seeing it live (I think I saw the first night) at Glyndebourne watching Vladimir Jurowski at the helm. The set was vivid and three dimensional, the direction was wonderful (you expect nothing less from McVicar). Gerald Finley was Hans Sachs - amazing character portrayal.

 

Sadly for now, most houses are shuttered. 

 

It's great that you also play the piano, it is difficult to be a singer without this skill.  And you do your own tuning, like I do.   You tune by ear, or you use a piano tuning app, and if so, which one?  I use an inexpensive Plus version of PianoMeter, which is enough for me.  Here in Houston we have wide humidity variations, and tuning should be done frequently, which I don't follow through too much. My ear has become more tolerant of out-of-tune than it was  when I was young and played the violin.  But it still bothers me a little to hear the high pitches of sopranos a bit flat, while if I sing without accompaniment my voice  tends to shift towards sharp.  I don't know why.

 

Back to opera.  I hear what you say, and what InBangkok says, about the much higher enjoyment from a live performance.  I trust your opinion, and it is easy for me to change my mind. The last time I attended a live performance was over 25 years ago, when my wife and me we subscribed to he Houston Opera, and they started to stage so many modern operas with unusual scenery that we cancelled our subscription.  When opera houses open again I will give it another try.  It may not be Glyndebourne, "No Ordinary Opera", but again Houston Opera.  Also I plan to visit Germany with my older sister,  and we may stop at some famous opera house and try our luck at some performance of Wagner, if possible Tannhauser.  If the result is successful,  I may join the group of retired folk who attend live operas.   

[InBangkok]

On 11/10/2020 at 7:42 AM, hard pecs said:

It is not easy to write the music and the words. Wagner was one of few who did. Most opera composers through the ages have worked closely with librettists. Strauss’s Capriccio explored this relationship (he part wrote the libretto with Krauss) - a wonderful work to listen to on a lazy Sunday afternoon. I was lucky enough to have seen Kiri Te Kanawa in it with costumes and set by Gianni Versace.

Sorry to go back to an earlier post. I totally agree. In many senses Wagner was the exception because the drama was a vital part of his new theory of music and drama. Although he was as guilty as some others of what many might call unnecessary repetition, much of his texts were deliberately written to reflect the ‘sound’ of ancient German poetry. The use of stabreim or alliteration used to be common. Wagner brings it back big time in The Ring.

 

Interesting, I think, that some composers did occasionally write part of their own libretti, usually using music they had composed beforehand. Puccini, Glinka, Mascagni and Berg were to a certain extent ‘guilty’ of this. But it was the other mad genius, Berlioz, who wrote his own libretti for The Trojans and The Damnation of Faust. I’m not sure if the full Trojans over one evening is the longest opera ever written, but having had the joy of having once seen it, I know the length was justified. 

 

Although Damnation is not technically an opera, it is often performed in opera houses. Who can not forgive Berlioz for writing both words and music to the gorgeous D’amour l’ardente flamme?

 

 

[InBangkok]

I wonder if anyone has read a fascinating book “Bel Canto Bully: The Life and Times of Domenico Barbaja” by Philip Eisenbeiss. Barabaja was largely responsible for the careers of three great opera composers - Rossini, Donizetti and Bellini.

 

Born to an impoverished family in northern Italy, Barbaja was your typical wheeler dealer. He would do anything to make a buck. He knew absolutely nothing about music and had no interest in it - apart from one thing. In the early 19th century, the foyers of opera houses were set up for gambling. It was one way of paying for the evening performances. Barbaja noticed that the gambling in the Teatro San Carlo in Naples was not generating the level of profits it should. Eyeing a deal, he made a pitch to take over the gambling concession.

 

He was successful. But now he was also in charge of the opera performances about which he knew nothing. With his wheeler dealer’s instinct, he knew he needed composers. People were talking about a young composer named Rossini. He made it his mission to attract him to Naples. It was a hugely profitable venture. Over 24 years, Rossini wrote 34 operas for Barbaja.

 

He then heard of the young composer Bellini and gave him a contract to write for the San Carlo. As the profits from the gambling increased, he attracted yet another young composer, Donizetti, who stayed with Barbaja for 16 years.

 

By then, Barbaja had taken over the gambling concession at Milan’s La Scala.  The works of his composers were also heard there. For a while, he all but dominated opera in Europe by adding concessions at Vienna and Paris. 

 

In one sense, he was the first true opera agent. Not a pleasant man, he was still responsible for the birth of so many operas that remain in the repertoire today.

Edited November 14, 2020 by InBangkok

[hard pecs]

On 11/13/2020 at 10:21 AM, InBangkok said:

Although Damnation is not technically an opera, it is often performed in opera houses. Who can not forgive Berlioz for writing both words and music to the gorgeous D’amour l’ardente flamme?

 

In @bangkok I have sung La Damnation quite a few times (under Roger Norrington, Colin Davis and most recently Mark Elder) and it's an amazing piece of theatre. Glyndebourne staged it a few years ago and sadly I didn't really like the production as it was very austere and did't quite match the richness of Berlioz's music. If you have the time, David Cairns's two volume on Berlioz is well worth reading - and you get a little insight into his view on the operatic world at this time.

 

 

[InBangkok]

1 hour ago, hard pecs said:

 

In @bangkok I have sung La Damnation quite a few times (under Roger Norrington, Colin Davis and most recently Mark Elder) and it's an amazing piece of theatre. Glyndebourne staged it a few years ago and sadly I didn't really like the production as it was very austere and did't quite match the richness of Berlioz's music. If you have the time, David Cairns's two volume on Berlioz is well worth reading - and you get a little insight into his view on the operatic world at this time.

 

I did in fact read David Cairns fascinating biographies, albeit many years ago. I also saw an early production at ENO in London. I cannot recall who was in the cast nor who conducted (I suspect it would have been the wonderful Charles Mackerras). My only memory is of there being large screens at the back and sides of the stage. During the Ride to the Abyss, projections of horses galloping over moorlands were shown. Unfortunately they were out of sync with the music so that when Faust and Mephistopheles briefly stop, the horses were still seen still at full speed. Then once the characters continued, the horses slowed to a trot! Stage technology was not so advanced then! 

 

i also have vague memories of being taken to a superb Berlioz centenary exhibition at the Victoria and Albert Museum. In one part, we climbed a short set of steps and found ourselves at the top tier of a Paris Theatre where Harriet Smithson, soon to be the love of Berlioz’ life, was performing Ophelia. 

 

This is is an Interesting, although not the best, old recording with Domingo and Fischer-Dieskau conducted by Barenboim.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by InBangkok

[Shinhao]

Watch the Magic Flute being performed at the Edinburgh International Festival - it was an exhilarating experience to hear the colouratura soprano singing “Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen” live. 

 

Diana Damrau and Su Mijo are the most notable sopranos (if me) for singing it

[wilfgene]

10 hours ago, Shinhao said:

Watch the Magic Flute being performed at the Edinburgh International Festival - it was an exhilarating experience to hear the colouratura soprano singing “Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen” live. 

 

Diana Damrau and Su Mijo are the most notable sopranos (if me) for singing it

Somehow the storyline doesn't make sense to me.  Lucia opera of a nightingale needs no understanding of lyric.  Faust by Gounod is memorable.

[hard pecs]

6 minutes ago, wilfgene said:

Somehow the storyline doesn't make sense to me.

 

Indeed the plot of Die Zauberflöte puzzled many. Some familiarity with Zoroastrianism might help - a belief older than Islam and Christianity. Still, the Flute has many great arias in it, not least Der Hölle Rache!

[InBangkok]

12 hours ago, Shinhao said:

Watch the Magic Flute being performed at the Edinburgh International Festival - it was an exhilarating experience to hear the colouratura soprano singing “Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen” live. 

 

Diana Damrau and Su Mijo are the most notable sopranos (if me) for singing it

I wonder if that was the 2006 production conducted by Claudio Abbado. I heard that was musically  exceptional,

[wilfgene]

3 hours ago, hard pecs said:

 

Indeed the plot of Die Zauberflöte puzzled many. Some familiarity with Zoroastrianism might help - a belief older than Islam and Christianity. Still, the Flute has many great arias in it, not least Der Hölle Rache!

No Parsis here?

[heman]

Indeed the plot in The Magic Flute can be puzzling.  It also departed from the other Mozart's opera in its absence of recitative. Richard Strauss De Frau Ohne Schattern is even more complicated and confusing. I watched my dvd just few week ago by Solti for the Salzburg's Festival

It has been compared to the Magic Flute but of course The Woman without Shadow is more complex in its plot ,involving two dramatic , Wagnerian sopranos in its title role. 

[Shinhao]

11 hours ago, InBangkok said:

I wonder if that was the 2006 production conducted by Claudio Abbado. I heard that was musically  exceptional,

I watched it in 2015

 

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2015/aug/30/magic-flute-edinburgh-festival-review-barrie-kosky-1927-komische-oper-berlin

 

 

 

 

[Shinhao]

This is an interesting question:

 

Maria Callas - yay or nay? 

 

yay to her voice pre ‘54. she did a lot for the operatic world. but i still much prefer Renata Tebaldi. 😈

[Steve5380]

On 11/14/2020 at 7:45 AM, Shinhao said:

Watch the Magic Flute being performed at the Edinburgh International Festival - it was an exhilarating experience to hear the colouratura soprano singing “Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen” live. 

 

Diana Damrau and Su Mijo are the most notable sopranos (if me) for singing it

 

Really extraordinary!  This was the first time I became aware of soprano Diana Damrau, and I am impressed!  She is German, and in the recitative preceding the aria I can understand every word she speaks, while one does not understand them in her singing.  This is in line with my estimation that words in singing don't convey well their meaning but are there to provide phonemes for the voice.  I particularly enjoy her perfect pitch in the singing of this difficult aria:

 

 

 

Su Mijo also sings very good in the following video.  But I find that her high pitches are somewhat flat,  something I perceive in many sopranos. I don't know if this is my hearing, but I don't feel this with Diana Damrau, and  neither I hear this from Margaret Price, so there must be some differences.  

 

 

 

 

And here is another magnificent interpretation of the aria "O zittre nicht, mein lieber Sohn"  in the same opera, also sung by Diana Damrau:

 

 

 

 

I have been loving this opera Die Zauberflote throughout my life.  I attended it as a teen in the Teatro Colon in Buenos Aires, and later staged by the Houston Opera. It has never bothered me its fantastic libretto, I pay little attention of the words,  but enjoy the music.  I could care less about the problems of the Queen of the Night, the plot just gives a frame for the arias. Still I like the recitatives spoken with a clear, recognizable pronunciation. In this opera Mozart seems fascinated with the high pitches of the soprano voice.  So the better!

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Steve5380

[Steve5380]

16 hours ago, wilfgene said:

No Parsis here?

 

If there are Parsis listening to this opera, they surely would expect it to be sung in Avestan or Gujarati.  Or at least have subtitles in these languages.

[Steve5380]

6 hours ago, Shinhao said:

This is an interesting question:

 

Maria Callas - yay or nay? 

 

yay to her voice pre ‘54. she did a lot for the operatic world. but i still much prefer Renata Tebaldi. 😈

 

There is such a nice selection of top Queen of the Night-s on youtube.  There is even this video that offers a menu for you to select. My choice is the last one.  (you may want to clear your throat with some good drink afterwards):

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Steve5380

[Steve5380]

7 hours ago, Shinhao said:

I watched it in 2015

 

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2015/aug/30/magic-flute-edinburgh-festival-review-barrie-kosky-1927-komische-oper-berlin

 

 

This staging must have been quite fantastic, surreal.  A magic treat for the eyes.

 

My last attendance of this opera was quite different.  it was in the 80s, and the staging was inspired by Maurice Sendak, the famous illustrator and writer of children's books. The magic was in the beautiful childishness conveyed by this person's art, without high tech special effects.  I have a poster from this event, framed and hanging by the side of my grand piano.  Each time I look at it closely the child in me makes me bring tears to my eyes. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Steve5380

[InBangkok]

9 hours ago, Shinhao said:

This is an interesting question:

 

Maria Callas - yay or nay? 

 

yay to her voice pre ‘54. she did a lot for the operatic world. but i still much prefer Renata Tebaldi. 😈

More or less agree. There is still the wonderful black and white Zeffirelli production from the Royal Opera in the early 1960s when she was still in excellent form - and a stunning actress. Sadly for a decade she more or less gave up her career for the love of Aristotle Onassis. By the time she attempted a return the voice was in shreds. She died alone in her Paris apartment aged only 53.

 

Onassis having married Jacqueline Kennedy all but drove her to despair. She felt betrayed and realized she had at the same time betrayed her art. There is an excellent book about the affair titled “Greek Fire” written by Ariana Stephanopoulos (now Ariana Huffington).

 

Callas never had a beautiful voice. I think this was partly a result of her singing such a wide variety of roles at the Greek Opera early in her career. You just cannot sing the Walkure Brunnhilde one night and then I Puritani and Fidelio within days of each other. Her major weight loss can not have helped.

 

But it was Callas who put opera on to the front pages of the world’s press. Apart from the rivalry, Tebaldi on her own did not manage to do that!

Edited November 16, 2020 by InBangkok

[wilfgene]

On 11/15/2020 at 7:53 AM, wilfgene said:

Somehow the storyline doesn't make sense to me.  Lucia opera of a nightingale needs no understanding of lyric.  Faust by Gounod is memorable.

 

21 hours ago, wilfgene said:

No Parsis here?

 

5 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

If there are Parsis listening to this opera, they surely would expect it to be sung in Avestan or Gujarati.  Or at least have subtitles in these languages.

'Disrespectful' in Armenian.  Happen to have a CD of Callas singing Lucia.  Never expect it to be sung in English or Gaelic.  That Walter Scott's work inspired Donizetti at one point in history is enough.  

[InBangkok]

8 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

Su Mijo also sings very good in the following video.  But I find that her high pitches are somewhat flat,  something I perceive in many sopranos.

Sumi Jo (correct spelling) was an outstanding Queen of the Night, certainly good enough to sing the role on the recording with Georg Solti and  the Vienna Philharmonic, a version regarded by the critics when it came out as one of the finest on disc. But her voice did begin to go downhill. I heard her at a concert in Shanghai 10 years ago and was disappointed. She was then only 47 and should have had another few years at the top of the profession.

Edited November 16, 2020 by InBangkok

[InBangkok]

21 hours ago, heman said:

Richard Strauss De Frau Ohne Schattern is even more complicated and confusing. I watched my dvd just few week ago by Solti for the Salzburg's Festival

It has been compared to the Magic Flute but of course The Woman without Shadow is more complex in its plot ,involving two dramatic , Wagnerian sopranos in its title role. 

I have seen it twice - once in London with Solti conducting and the second in Tokyo with Sawallisch and his forces from the Munich Staatsoper. London was interesting partly as a result of the design by Josef Svoboda who had recently invented his famous light curtain. But I still find the plot confusing!!

[heman]

18 hours ago, Shinhao said:

Maria Callas - yay or nay? 

Both Callas and Tebaldi were superstars for their era. I read a book of Callas few years ago. She admitted that at times she disliked her  own voice. She preferred the voice of Tebaldi. However on stage Callas was more phenomenal and displayed higher level of temperament. 

Callas voice deteriorated after 1955 probably to reckless use of voice, age (menopause does play an important role as mentioned very vividly by Christa Ludwig in her biography , or perhaps her strained relationship with Aristotle Onnasis.

I must sincerely state that her Tosca is my gold standard in this opera.

Edited November 16, 2020 by heman

[InBangkok]

Found this fascinating video of von Karajan meeting the young singers Sumi Jo and Cecilia Bartoli. It is an informal morning meeting 2 years before Karajan’s death. He has both singing Bach, possibly with a view to his inviting them to sing at the 1988 Salzburg Easter Festival. When he hears that Sumi Jo will be recording the Queen of the Night the following year for the Phillips label he is very surprised and insists that she sing one of the arias, even though she has not prepared it and not warmed up the voice. As he says, she can sing it without any doubt, but he believes the part is a killer for any voice.

 

I think the Japanese couple who appear are Norio Ogha and his wife. Ogha was the President of Sony. Ogha had studied music in Berlin and formed a close friendship with von Karajan. In the 1980s he had tried many times to lure Karajan away from DGG to the Sony label.  He finally succeeded, but then Karajan died very soon thereafter.

 

Ogha was also the individual who persuaded his boss Akio Morita that the new CD format should have up to 70 minutes of playing time. This was to ensure that Beethoven’s Ninth could be on one disc!

 

i first posted this with Japanese subtitles. Then I found it split over two videos with English. The second also has a rehearsal of the Tannhauser overture in Salzburg

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by InBangkok

[InBangkok]

47 minutes ago, heman said:

Both Callas and Tebaldi were superstars for their era. I read a book of Callas few years ago. She admitted that at times she disliked her  own voice. She preferred the voice of Tebaldi. However on stage Callas was more phenomenal and displayed higher level of temperament. 

Callas voice deteriorated after 1955 probably to reckless use of voice, age (menopause does play an important role as mentioned very vividly by Christa Ludwig in her biography , or perhaps her strained relationship with Aristotle Onnasis.

I must sincerely state that her Tosca is my gold standard in this opera.

Surely 1955 would be too soon for Callas to suffer from the menopause. She was only 32 that year. But it could have accelerated the downward slide later on. 

 

I have Tebaldi as Butterfly on the famous recording with Carlo Begonzi conducted by Serafin. There is no doubt her voice is slightly heavy, but the singing is perfectly glorious and I doubt if there is a finer Pinkerton than Bergonzi. I did catch one performance of Bergonzi in Forza del Destino in London in the mid 1970s when he was in tremendous voice.

 

 

[Shinhao]

On 11/16/2020 at 9:16 AM, InBangkok said:

Sumi Jo (correct spelling) was an outstanding Queen of the Night, certainly good enough to sing the role on the recording with Georg Solti and  the Vienna Philharmonic, a version regarded by the critics when it came out as one of the finest on disc. But her voice did begin to go downhill. I heard her at a concert in Shanghai 10 years ago and was disappointed. She was then only 47 and should have had another few years at the top of the profession.

Aye! Sumi Jo! I know something wasn’t looking right but was to lazy to look it up. Cheers mate!🤣

[InBangkok]

41 minutes ago, Shinhao said:

Aye! Sumi Jo! I know something wasn’t looking right but was to lazy to look it up. Cheers mate!🤣

Well, it sounds the same!! LOL

[heman]

15 hours ago, Shinhao said:

I heard her at a concert

I was fortunate to attend two of her concerts here in Singapore about a few years ago. I recalled very vividly her interpretation of The Doll's song and an aria from Verdi if i am not wrong. She concluded the night concert with the soprano solo from Mahler's 4th Symphony. It was a very remarkable concert.

[heman]

Sumi Jo tackling of  the Queen of the Night is indeed one of the most splendid i heard apart from Diana Damrau. I regretted that i was unable to attend Damrau concert performance here for i was in London.😪.

Edited November 18, 2020 by heman