Singapore PM Lee Hsien Loong pushes for foreign talent, says LGBT people welcome.

[tomcat]

Lee told the Singapore Tech Forum that talent is crucial to become a regional powerhouse, and that gay and lesbian people are ‘valued members of society’. 

 

A sign of change? Hopeful. 

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3110328/singapore-pm-lee-hsien-loong-pushes-foreign-talent-keeping

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by tomcat

[Kimochi]

Local LGBT don't source but look for foreign LGBT ...

[Guest Six]

What a joke, 377a makes you all gay a criminal legally in sg

 

Until the day this law is lifted or else you talent kena caught also still a criminal in the eyes of laws, not forgetting being discriminated and shamed as gay

[Guest hypocrite]

Say one thing in international forum, do another thing while in his own country.

[Guest Six]

43 minutes ago, Kimochi said:

Local LGBT don't source but look for foreign LGBT ...

Look down on local lgbt as no talents as usual 

 

How many years here liao still don't know 😅

[mate69]

Nothing to cheer about

More of the same

Nothing changes

More of the same old tired spiel

 

[Guest Guest]

His own gay nephew has to go South Africa to get married. He was the one with the power to insist for all his MPs to vote for the repeal of 377A in parliament just like how he did done with multiple policies such as the 6.9 million population white paper, but he didn't do that. And yet TS still believes that he has a change of heart about LGBT? 

 

What is more worrying is this idea of the "

“Tech.Pass programme”

 that aims to draw top talent to Singapore. The programme will allow 500 highly qualified individuals – “the movers and shakers of the tech world” – to secure a new type of visa to start and operate more than one company and become an investor, consultant or mentor for local start-ups."

 

This basically gives these "talents" free rein to our already tight local employment landscape here. "500 Highly qualified individuals" indeed! Don't make me laity. Knowing how our government consider every single foreigners to be "Talents", and how people can even fake their degrees to come into Singapore, I don't know how many Fake Talents are going to come in this time from CECA. 

 

This entire appeal to LGBT is just another one of his desperate ruse to appeal to a larger sector of the community to see some lousy scheme in positive light. Nothing more. As usual, NS for locals, jobs for "them". 

 

[auscent]

It is not about minority groups imposing values on majority. But about creating an inclusive atmosphere where everyone has an equitable space.

[Guest Derelict]

Most FTs aren't talents. The govt wants these people here to depress wages and lower labor costs. Make Spore more "competitive".

 

The reason is that our govt owns lots of businesses and organisations. They stand to benefit in terms of HR savings. 

 

The LGBT thing is just to include foreign  LGBTs. More foreigners all around.

 

ULTIMATE GOAL: MAKE THEMSELVES EVEN RICHER.

[Guest Hello 60% voted for pap]

Hello based on statistics, 60% of the ppl here voted for pap and still dared to come here Kao Peh Kao bu. They want FT because they want to squeeze money out of them. Only stupid ppl believe them. 

[Kimochi]

Their motive seems wrong. From where they coming from, it seems they just trying to make more money. Now included pink dollar which do not approve in SG. Something very fishy going on. 

[Guest Money face]

13 minutes ago, Kimochi said:

Their motive seems wrong. From where they coming from, it seems they just trying to make more money. Now included pink dollar which do not approve in SG. Something very fishy going on. 

有钱能使鬼推磨

They are money faced ghosts 

[Cernunnos]

7 hours ago, Kimochi said:

Local LGBT don't source but look for foreign LGBT ...

Apparently, this phenomena is very widespread in the industry here.

 

One can imagine the scenario above like misplacing an item when the item is right in front of oneself but keeps searching elsewhere ....

 

Very sad but very true and this creates huge problems for local markets, talents, manpower and businesses as we keep misplacing our resources and talents.

[Why?]

8 hours ago, tomcat said:

Lee told the Singapore Tech Forum that talent is crucial to become a regional powerhouse, and that gay and lesbian people are ‘valued members of society’. 

 

A sign of change? Hopeful. 

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3110328/singapore-pm-lee-hsien-loong-pushes-foreign-talent-keeping

 

Sure. Get a hollywood talented gay director to do a gay movie and you will see all sort of censorships thrown in to distract, restrict, stiffen the number of audience into the theatre,  because singapore is a "conservative" society, so LHL say.  "Conservative" leader, is the root source of Singapore host of problems with no talent, no creativity, no invention,  no originality, no fucking freedom to think beyond the established standard laid down by laws, legislations and Acts that formed a strong barbed wire around the brain of every thinking citizens in this country, to the great extend that you hardly see any exceptionally person the like of Bill Gate,  Mark Zuckerberg,  Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos,...etc.  However, we do have one very powerful lady in Singapore, the modern "Empress Dowager", whose past time enjoyment is to make comments and postings on her facebook page to cast sarcasm and criticise anyone who dare to criticise the government line of thoughts.   If LHL's definition of talent, meritocracy and elite is what he viewed of his own supporters and his own "family members",  you can safely throw your dictionary out of the window because you are not who you are by definition, but by what the establisment wanted you to think you are.  On that note, it makes a laughing stock of the true meaning of "Talent" in Singapore and as such, any Tom, Dick and Harry can keep their head high, by being able to work cheaply so that those at the top, can earn obscenely.  

It was like saying the Queen of England is very talented, and she earned her place through meritocracy.   With that, I cringed at the process of selecting the current president who deluded to think she earned her place thru  meritocratic process. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Why?

[Seedrick]

3 hours ago, Kimochi said:

Their motive seems wrong. From where they coming from, it seems they just trying to make more money. Now included pink dollar which do not approve in SG. Something very fishy going on. 

They are always trying to have a cake and eat it too, refusing to choose sides between US and China is one example.
 

They know fully well that the spending power of the LGBT group is higher, with more disposable income, but yet refuse to anger the religious conservative groups by keeping 377a, allowing the continuous discrimination against the LGBTs

 

They just want everything to go their way... because such is human greed, there is never enough, always want something more...

[Guest Tech person from AU]

Does “LGBT welcome” mean I can bring my same sex partner as a dependant?

I might be able to meet the criteria myself but there is no way my partner would find a $20k/month job, too.

[Guest Guest]

42 minutes ago, Seedrick said:

They are always trying to have a cake and eat it too, refusing to choose sides between US and China is one example.
 

They know fully well that the spending power of the LGBT group is higher, with more disposable income, but yet refuse to anger the religious conservative groups by keeping 377a, allowing the continuous discrimination against the LGBTs

 

They just want everything to go their way... because such is human greed, there is never enough, always want something more...

 

[jlone]

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/survey-finds-majority-wants-singapore-to-remain-open-to-foreigners-only-14-per-cent

 

Do u believe in the above survey?

Edited November 19, 2020 by jlone

[FattChoy]

A simple announcement also can trigger so much anger from some ppl.  Can pivot into local vs foreign somemore. 

 

Haiz, these losers always complain either way.

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by FattChoy

[singalion]

6 hours ago, Guest Derelict said:

Most FTs aren't talents. The govt wants these people here to depress wages and lower labor costs. Make Spore more "competitive".

 

The reason is that our govt owns lots of businesses and organisations. They stand to benefit in terms of HR savings. 

 

The LGBT thing is just to include foreign  LGBTs. More foreigners all around.

 

ULTIMATE GOAL: MAKE THEMSELVES EVEN RICHER.

 

Unfortunately, this is a myth and one of the fake news.

 

Salaries in Singapore for Singaporeans have risen in the past 10 years more than productivity or efficiency has risen in the manpower.

Even independent statistics on HR come to the same conclusion for salary rises in all sectors

 

Second, people tend to forget that any increases in thresholds for foreign Employment will lead automatically to salary increases for Singaporeans in same jobs or higher paid jobs.

Would a Singaporean work for a lower salary when a Foreigner in the same job (often with higher educational background) would earn more???

 

The Singapore government has heavily increased salaries for local in the past years following the financial crisis to build up a stronger local spending and rely more on residents spending in Singapore to overcome reliance on downturns.

 

I m not sure if the move was good to raise the salaries in this path, because of the extremely lower salaries in neighbouring countries. Due to this certain jobs will shift out of Singapore as the labour costs would be too high to maintain for certain industrial or administrative jobs in Singapore.

 

Here the statistics: Note it is a non government HR specialist who comes up with the findings:

 

Mercer’s annual Singapore Total Remuneration Survey (TRS) projects 3.7% overall salary increases for Singapore for 2020, a slight increase from the recorded 3.6% in 2019, as measured from data across 1,000 companies and 19 industries.

Faced with the realisation that these pay increases alone may be insufficient to retain and recognise employees, employers may turn to other incentives in addition to salary increments. Kulapalee Tobing, Career Products Leader, Singapore, said: "There needs to be a shift from developing isolated reward initiatives towards more holistic talent strategies that acknowledge pay as only one means of differentiation and motivation."

As such, the report found a continued upward trend of companies in Singapore turning to retention bonuses, with one in three providing retention bonuses in 2019 compared to one in four in 2017.

This trend correlates with external talent becoming increasingly expensive (10.6% premium for executive candidates and 11.6% premium on management candidates if they join at the same level). This premium could go up to 14.4% and 15.3% respectively if the candidate is joining at a higher level.

 

As the graph below shows, most sectors don't anticipate vast movements in salaries - in fact, small upward swings in salaries are only expected in consumer goods, lifestyle retail, banking & finance, and life sciences.

 

https://www.humanresourcesonline.net/industry-breakdown-salary-increments-in-singapore-for-2020

 

 

 

Ok, the above was correct for the pre-Covid-19.

 

Salary deductions have come into place to overcome the economic issues with Covid-19 in 2020.

 

But these deductions relate to local and foreign employees in Singapore.

 

But overall, the statement that foreign employees lead to depress wages of locals is a myth not substantiated by statistics.

 

 

Ask yourself: Has your salary risen between 2010 to 2019?

Have you Singaporean ever earned less than any foreign employee in the same job as you?

[Guest Guest]

1 hour ago, FattChoy said:

A simple announcement also can trigger so much anger from some ppl.  Can pivot into local vs foreign somemore. 

 

Haiz, these losers always complain either way.

 

This type of 不简单 announcement is what you deem to be "simple"? Quit pretending to be smart when you so obviously aren't. 

 

 

 

[Guest Guest]

14 minutes ago, singalion said:

 

Unfortunately, this is a myth and one of the fake news.

 

Salaries in Singapore for Singaporeans have risen in the past 10 years more than productivity or efficiency has risen in the manpower.

Even independent statistics on HR come to the same conclusion for salary rises in all sectors

 

Second, people tend to forget that any increases in thresholds for foreign Employment will lead automatically to salary increases for Singaporeans in same jobs or higher paid jobs.

Would a Singaporean work for a lower salary when a Foreigner in the same job (often with higher educational background) would earn more???

 

The Singapore government has heavily increased salaries for local in the past years following the financial crisis to build up a stronger local spending and rely more on residents spending in Singapore to overcome reliance on downturns.

 

I m not sure if the move was good to raise the salaries in this path, because of the extremely lower salaries in neighbouring countries. Due to this certain jobs will shift out of Singapore as the labour costs would be too high to maintain for certain industrial or administrative jobs in Singapore.

 

Here the statistics: Note it is a non government HR specialist who comes up with the findings:

 

Mercer’s annual Singapore Total Remuneration Survey (TRS) projects 3.7% overall salary increases for Singapore for 2020, a slight increase from the recorded 3.6% in 2019, as measured from data across 1,000 companies and 19 industries.

Faced with the realisation that these pay increases alone may be insufficient to retain and recognise employees, employers may turn to other incentives in addition to salary increments. Kulapalee Tobing, Career Products Leader, Singapore, said: "There needs to be a shift from developing isolated reward initiatives towards more holistic talent strategies that acknowledge pay as only one means of differentiation and motivation."

As such, the report found a continued upward trend of companies in Singapore turning to retention bonuses, with one in three providing retention bonuses in 2019 compared to one in four in 2017.

This trend correlates with external talent becoming increasingly expensive (10.6% premium for executive candidates and 11.6% premium on management candidates if they join at the same level). This premium could go up to 14.4% and 15.3% respectively if the candidate is joining at a higher level.

 

As the graph below shows, most sectors don't anticipate vast movements in salaries - in fact, small upward swings in salaries are only expected in consumer goods, lifestyle retail, banking & finance, and life sciences.

 

https://www.humanresourcesonline.net/industry-breakdown-salary-increments-in-singapore-for-2020

 

 

 

Ok, the above was correct for the pre-Covid-19.

 

Salary deductions have come into place to overcome the economic issues with Covid-19 in 2020.

 

But these deductions relate to local and foreign employees in Singapore.

 

But overall, the statement that foreign employees lead to depress wages of locals is a myth not substantiated by statistics.

 

 

Ask yourself: Has your salary risen between 2010 to 2019?

Have you Singaporean ever earned less than any foreign employee in the same job as you?

 

And all this long long post after our Minister himself admitted in Parliament that the median wage band of S'poreans in financial sector is lower than those of PRs, foreigners?? And all these after so many reports of PMETs asking to get a pay cut on their new jobs?? 

[singalion]

7 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

His own gay nephew has to go South Africa to get married. He was the one with the power to insist for all his MPs to vote for the repeal of 377A in parliament just like how he did done with multiple policies such as the 6.9 million population white paper, but he didn't do that. And yet TS still believes that he has a change of heart about LGBT? 

 

What is more worrying is this idea of the "

“Tech.Pass programme”

 that aims to draw top talent to Singapore. The programme will allow 500 highly qualified individuals – “the movers and shakers of the tech world” – to secure a new type of visa to start and operate more than one company and become an investor, consultant or mentor for local start-ups."

 

This basically gives these "talents" free rein to our already tight local employment landscape here. "500 Highly qualified individuals" indeed! Don't make me laity. Knowing how our government consider every single foreigners to be "Talents", and how people can even fake their degrees to come into Singapore, I don't know how many Fake Talents are going to come in this time from CECA. 

 

This entire appeal to LGBT is just another one of his desperate ruse to appeal to a larger sector of the community to see some lousy scheme in positive light. Nothing more. As usual, NS for locals, jobs for "them". 

 

 

This slogan about "NS for locals and jobs for foreigners" has been a bit overused at BW.

 

Maybe you need a foreigner to advise you on how you could make a better slogan with more creative input.

 

You tend to forget many of these foreigners have gone through NS or mandatory social programs at their home country.

And all those Singaporeans who work overseas, have they done the NS in the countries they work for?

 

Can I ask how many Singaporeans are in Singapore who passed through the NS and remained unemployed?

 

Despite the Covid -19 crisis the unemployment rate with Singaporeans is still at low levels. In other parts of the world the unemployment rate hit new records and extremes due to the Covid 19 crisis.

 

Your post seems to me a desperate effort to ride on your general anti foreigner slogans and nothing else.

 

And please get acquainted with this new TechPass EP and what it is about.

 

Those sufficiently intellectual  here would have noted that probably Singapore lacks specialist Tech experts with outstanding knowledge and start up motivations and business risk taking skills to venture into new start ups to bring Singapore into the future economy...

 

Even if I have personal doubts on the requirement of a new EP scheme, but at least I see the marketing background by the government.

 

But lost souls like you probably will never understand this.

 

 

 

[Guest Guest]

9 minutes ago, singalion said:

 

This slogan about "NS for locals and jobs for foreigners" has been a bit overused at BW.

 

Maybe you need a foreigner to advise you on how you could make a better slogan with more creative input.

 

You tend to forget many of these foreigners have gone through NS or mandatory social programs at their home country.

And all those Singaporeans who work overseas, have they done the NS in the countries they work for?

 

Can I ask how many Singaporeans are in Singapore who passed through the NS and remained unemployed?

 

Despite the Covid -19 crisis the unemployment rate with Singaporeans is still at low levels. In other parts of the world the unemployment rate hit new records and extremes due to the Covid 19 crisis.

 

Your post seems to me a desperate effort to ride on your general anti foreigner slogans and nothing else.

 

And please get acquainted with this new TechPass EP and what it is about.

 

Those sufficiently intellectual  here would have noted that probably Singapore lacks specialist Tech experts with outstanding knowledge and start up motivations and business risk taking skills to venture into new start ups to bring Singapore into the future economy...

 

Even if I have personal doubts on the requirement of a new EP scheme, but at least I see the marketing background by the government.

 

But lost souls like you probably will never understand this.

 

 What is this "many of these foreigners have gone through NS or mandatory social programs at their home country"??? What is this "Despite the Covid -19 crisis the unemployment rate with Singaporeans is still at low levels"?? Which of these foreigners have gone through what NS or mandatory social programs at their home country? China? India? Americans?? And you go tell all those people who are now jobless becasue of COVID that unemployment rate is still at low levels, OK? 

 

Foreign trash like you should stop pretending to act as if they know our local socioeconomical and geopolitical situation here, just so that you can keep your own pathetic jobs away from the local Singaporeans here. 

[singalion]

18 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

 

And all this long long post after our Minister himself admitted in Parliament that the median wage band of S'poreans in financial sector is lower than those of PRs, foreigners?? And all these after so many reports of PMETs asking to get a pay cut on their new jobs?? 

 

Wrong info:

 

The income of the high end earners in the financial sector is higher than the salary of locals but these are specialised high end professionals who already come with top notch salaries from their home country or other parts of the world. The jobs expertise and tasks don't match with Singaporeans in the financial sector.

The minister stated the reason for this fact.

 

Second you tend to forget, such high end foreigners come from a high pay status at their own home country. To shift them to Singapore, surely, they would not suffer any pay cut and considering higher costs in housing and life style costs in Singapore, the salary naturally would be on the high end.

 

Please don't draw a picture for Singaporeans earning less than foreigners. And please refrain to draw conclusions from the financial sector to other industries.

 

You are comparing apples with pears. Sorry.

 

Get the facts right and stop pasting mere untrue slogans at BW.

 

 

 

    Transport Minister Ong Ye Kung said median wages for Singaporeans in the financial sector are S$6,000 to S$8,000
    For permanent residents and foreigners, the figure is S$8,000 to S$10,000
    Manpower Minister Josephine Teo said that 5,280 Singaporeans had been retrenched in the first half of 2020
    11,000 Singaporeans were temporarily laid off in the same period
    This is one-third the number of non-citizens who were laid off

 

SINGAPORE — Across the financial sector, the median monthly wage band for Singaporeans is S$6,000 to S$8,000, while that of permanent residents (PRs) and foreigners is S$8,000 to S$10,000, said Transport Minister Ong Ye Kung in Parliament on Friday (Sept 4).

About half of Singaporeans in senior positions in the sector earn above S$30,000 a month, the same proportion as foreigners. Almost two-thirds of PRs in senior positions earn above that figure, Mr Ong said.

He offered this “broad view of data” in response to a question posed by Workers’ Party Member of Parliament (MP) for Sengkang Group Representation Constituency (GRC) Louis Chua on the monthly salary of the 25th, 50th and 75th percentile of Singaporeans, PRs and foreigners across the financial sector.

 

“A foreigner at the 50th percentile of foreigner’s wage levels in the financial sector could be hired for a very different role from a Singaporean at the 50th percentile of Singaporean wage levels,” said Mr Ong, who is an MAS board member.
 

Both sets of data that he shared are to be expected as financial institutions often bring in higher-earning foreigners to perform specialised or regional and global roles, said Mr Ong.

 

Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/median-wage-prs-foreigners-financial-sector-higher-sporeans-ong-ye-kung

 

Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/median-wage-prs-foreigners-financial-sector-higher-sporeans-ong-ye-kung

Edited November 19, 2020 by singalion
typo

[singalion]

Sorry but I am not going to entertain your brawls.

 

What I do is to present the real facts to inform the BW readers and point out your untruths and mere slogans.

 

Same as the American newspapers have listed all lies and untruths from Donald Trump.

 

It is futile to discuss these issues with you because you lack the intelligence to overcome your limited mindset.

[singalion]

September 04, 2020
Updated  September 05, 2020

 

 

OVER 5,000 CITIZENS RETRENCHED IN FIRST HALF OF 2020

Separately, Minister for Manpower Josephine Teo said preliminary data showed that 5,280 Singaporeans had been retrenched in the first half of this year. She was responding to questions posed by Ms He Ting Ru, MP for Sengkang GRC.

Ms He also asked how many Singaporeans have been placed on unpaid leave due to Covid-19. To this, Mrs Teo responded that in the Ministry of Manpower’s (MOM) compilation of labour statistics, being placed on unpaid leave is captured as “temporary layoffs”.

 

During the same period, about 11,000 Singaporeans were temporarily laid off, one-third the number of non-citizens, said Mrs Teo.

 

Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/median-wage-prs-foreigners-financial-sector-higher-sporeans-ong-ye-kung

 

 

Even if the retrenchment amount of Singaporeans is in fact 10,000 (instead of the 5,280) for the first 6 months in 2020 (double than the preliminary data), compared with 2.5 million Singaporeans in the workforce, is the number extremely high?

 

 

[Guest Guest]

16 minutes ago, singalion said:

Even if the retrenchment amount of Singaporeans is in fact 10,000 (instead of the 5,280) for the first 6 months in 2020 (double than the preliminary data), compared with 2.5 million Singaporeans in the workforce, is the number extremely high?

 

 

Are you trying to tell us that as long as you are still employed, whatever unemployment numbers won't ever be high enough for you?? 

 

 

 

33 minutes ago, singalion said:

Sorry but I am not going to entertain your brawls.

 

What I do is to present the real facts to inform the BW readers and point out your untruths and mere slogans.

 

Same as the American newspapers have listed all lies and untruths from Donald Trump.

 

It is futile to discuss these issues with you because you lack the intelligence to overcome your limited mindset.

 

 

There's an entire thread  exposing you for all the lies that you tell people here on BW, and you still want to come here and tell people that you are here to "point out others untruths and mere slogans"??? You were even caught trying to use some population numbers from decades ago and pretend those numbers to be recent ones, just to try winning your arguments.

 

Here, go refresh yourself on that thread here: 

 

 

[singalion]

Quote:

"The income of the high end earners in the financial sector is higher than the salary of locals but these are specialised high end professionals who already come with top notch salaries from their home country or other parts of the world. The jobs expertise and tasks don't match with Singaporeans in the financial sector.

The minister stated the reason for this fact.

 

Second you tend to forget, such high end foreigners come from a high pay status at their own home country. To shift them to Singapore, surely, they would not suffer any pay cut and considering higher costs in housing and life style costs in Singapore, the salary naturally would be on the high end."

 

Quote end.

 

Who said that these high end earners are all Indians??? In your usual stupidity you just showed us again, where you are coming from.

On a note: Not every person of Indian descent has been born or raised in India, maybe take a look at the second biggest financial centre. Maybe you take a look at the upcoming Vice President in the US.

 

They come here on the request of their HQ to increase the business in Singapore and to implement the business strategy into Singapore or they bring in expertise in customer attraction and retaining.

 

You pretend as if these Foreign employees are losers and failed personalities and have not been successful in their jobs.

 

Isn't Singapore an important financial centre? Why must everything in Singapore be no.1? Just to satisfy your ego as a Singaporean.

London or New York  are bigger financial centres than Singapore. Singapore is at no. 6.

 

It is wasted energy to elaborate on this further with you, as it doesn't come to your mind what the benefits for Singapore are and your mindset lacks overview as you restrain yourself to see matters only through one limited angle.

[singalion]

Please note the thread is titled

 

Guest vs singalion

 

The thread is about your brawls against me.

 

Failing to see the fact that there are Foreigners and Chinese people living in North Korea even in 2020 is your personal problem.

If you can dig out the actual numbers of Foreigners living in China, then please do so.

Do you still intend to deny that there are Foreigners and Chinese living in North Korea in the year 2020?

 

It is your mere imagination to make this up and call it a lie.

Is it a lie to say there are foreigners and Chinese citizens living and working in North Korea?

Every reasonable and sane person would need to respond with: "No it is not a lie".

 

See how silly your brawls are?

 

You are using the same smear tactics on others (who oppose to your slogan calling at BW) as Donald Trump in creating "alternative facts" or trying to smear dirt on others who oppose your myth painting and slogan posting on this forum. 

 

"Alternative facts" was a phrase used by U.S. Counselor to the President Kellyanne Conway during a Meet the Press interview on January 22, 2017, in which she defended White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer's false statement about the attendance numbers of Donald Trump's inauguration as President of the United States.

 

Alternative facts have been called many things: falsehoods, untruths, delusions. A fact is something that actually exists—what we would call “reality” or “truth.” An alternative is one of the choices in a set of given options; typically the options are opposites of each other. So to talk about alternative facts is to talk about the opposite of reality (which is delusion), or the opposite of truth (which is untruth).

 

If you intend to counter my arguments then come up with data and substantiation.

 

So far you failed to come up with any substance on your points at any of the threads or brawls you created on BW. Therefore, what you bring up is nothing than mere slogans and untruths.

 

Get back to the topic.

 

Myself, I m not so relevant to continue wasting your energy on your brawls against me.

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by singalion
..

[Guest Derelict]

1 hour ago, singalion said:

 

Unfortunately, this is a myth and one of the fake news.

 

Salaries in Singapore for Singaporeans have risen in the past 10 years more than productivity or efficiency has risen in the manpower.

Even independent statistics on HR come to the same conclusion for salary rises in all sectors

 

Second, people tend to forget that any increases in thresholds for foreign Employment will lead automatically to salary increases for Singaporeans in same jobs or higher paid jobs.

Would a Singaporean work for a lower salary when a Foreigner in the same job (often with higher educational background) would earn more???

 

The Singapore government has heavily increased salaries for local in the past years following the financial crisis to build up a stronger local spending and rely more on residents spending in Singapore to overcome reliance on downturns.

 

I m not sure if the move was good to raise the salaries in this path, because of the extremely lower salaries in neighbouring countries. Due to this certain jobs will shift out of Singapore as the labour costs would be too high to maintain for certain industrial or administrative jobs in Singapore.

 

Here the statistics: Note it is a non government HR specialist who comes up with the findings:

 

Mercer’s annual Singapore Total Remuneration Survey (TRS) projects 3.7% overall salary increases for Singapore for 2020, a slight increase from the recorded 3.6% in 2019, as measured from data across 1,000 companies and 19 industries.

Faced with the realisation that these pay increases alone may be insufficient to retain and recognise employees, employers may turn to other incentives in addition to salary increments. Kulapalee Tobing, Career Products Leader, Singapore, said: "There needs to be a shift from developing isolated reward initiatives towards more holistic talent strategies that acknowledge pay as only one means of differentiation and motivation."

As such, the report found a continued upward trend of companies in Singapore turning to retention bonuses, with one in three providing retention bonuses in 2019 compared to one in four in 2017.

This trend correlates with external talent becoming increasingly expensive (10.6% premium for executive candidates and 11.6% premium on management candidates if they join at the same level). This premium could go up to 14.4% and 15.3% respectively if the candidate is joining at a higher level.

 

As the graph below shows, most sectors don't anticipate vast movements in salaries - in fact, small upward swings in salaries are only expected in consumer goods, lifestyle retail, banking & finance, and life sciences.

 

https://www.humanresourcesonline.net/industry-breakdown-salary-increments-in-singapore-for-2020

 

 

 

Ok, the above was correct for the pre-Covid-19.

 

Salary deductions have come into place to overcome the economic issues with Covid-19 in 2020.

 

But these deductions relate to local and foreign employees in Singapore.

 

But overall, the statement that foreign employees lead to depress wages of locals is a myth not substantiated by statistics.

 

 

Ask yourself: Has your salary risen between 2010 to 2019?

Have you Singaporean ever earned less than any foreign employee in the same job as you?

I don't trust those HR companies. They'll toe the official line and parrot what the govt said.

 

All these companies that threaten to move to cheaper countries, I'll say please do. I'm not the one benefiting since FTs are favored. Also the bulk of the cost comes from operations not wages.

 

My personal experience? Salary hasn't increased. In fact, if I change jobs, I'll be lucky if they match my last drawn. Most will offer less than your previous pay. Other Sporeans I spoke to confirmed this.

[tomcat]

Wow, as the person who has shared this article...

I have to say I am amused to see that many have not even read the whole thing, lol.

 

If you did, you will know that the mention of foreign talents for tech industry, and LGBT as members of society are not even connected

but mentioned in two separate parts of the forum event. @Kimochi@mate69@Cernunnosetc..

 

While I shared this originally to initiate a discussion, what it ultimately became was a social experiment on:

1. The Importance of Critical Reading,

2. Sensationalism vs Rationalism,

3. Cherry-picking Information, and 
4. Confirmation Bias.

Those are all legitimate phenomena that shows what this sorry discussion was built on, and ultimately where it is going,

Basically, you all just read the headlines and went off on that, right? Cannot like that lah! 
Literally dying from the second hand embarassment! 😂🤣 😂🤣












 

Edited November 19, 2020 by tomcat

[singalion]

58 minutes ago, Guest Derelict said:

I don't trust those HR companies. They'll toe the official line and parrot what the govt said.

 

All these companies that threaten to move to cheaper countries, I'll say please do. I'm not the one benefiting since FTs are favored. Also the bulk of the cost comes from operations not wages.

 

My personal experience? Salary hasn't increased. In fact, if I change jobs, I'll be lucky if they match my last drawn. Most will offer less than your previous pay. Other Sporeans I spoke to confirmed this.

 

1. The Mercer report is done for each country and independently. If they parrot anyone then more the HR departments in the different countries.

 

2. The "most Singaporeans I spoke to" is mere "hearsay".  how many Singaporeans are changing jobs in current situation???

 

3. I m not sure if the statement "companies are favouring Foreign Employees" against Singaporeans would stand against facts.

Note for 1 SPass in the service industry (and paying SPass levies to the gov) you need to have 6 six Singaporean employees.

 

4. Wrong conclusion or false statement to say that wages are not one of the bulk of costs:

The biggest junk of expenses for companies in Singapore are:

1. Rental

2. Wages

 

Operations is not a major cost factor.

 

It is more myth building to state, wages are not a major factor of business costs in Singapore.

 

One could conclude that the person who posted the above probably is not part of the workforce at all, coming up with such unrealistic "findings".

 

Quote:

Labour cost, royalty payments and “others” are the main components of business costs in the manufacturing sector; similarly, labour cost constitutes a major cost component in the services sector

For firms in the manufacturing sector, labour cost, royalty payments and “others” constitute the main components of business costs. Collectively, they account for around 75 per cent of the business costs of small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and 67 per cent of the business costs of non-SMEs in the sector.

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by singalion

[singalion]

6 minutes ago, tomcat said:

As the person who has shared this article...

I have to say that am AMAZED to see that based on the the comments, many members have not even read the whole thing, lol.

 

If you did, you will know that the mention of foreign talents for tech industry, and LGBT as members of society are not connected but mentioned in two seperate parts of the forum discussion. 

 

While I shared this originally to initiate a discussion, what it ultimately became was a social experiment, on the importance of critical reading, sensationalism vs rationalism, cherry-picking and confirmation bias. Those are all legitimate phenomena that shows what this sorry discussion was built on, and ultimately where it is going,

 

Basically, you all just read the headlines and went off on that, right? 😂🤣 😂🤣

 

 

Yes, this is the problem. Most people don't take the effort to read the article. 

The full article can be read at the Members' Lounge, inclusive of the video of the interview of PM Lee.

 

I read the article.

 

My apologies for any side tracks but I just want to de-myth the slogans bumping up by our usual pet Guests.

 

I tried to message to you, but you don't seem to permit messaging to you: Lately it is better to start such sensitive discussions in the Members' Lounge.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by singalion

[tomcat]

4 minutes ago, singalion said:

Yes, this is the problem. Most people don't take the effort to read the article. 

The full article can be read at the Members' Lounge, inclusive of the video of the interview of PM Lee.
.
.
.

Yah, as far as BW dynamics go, it is a delicate balance between posting in members or main forum.

Definitely more eyeballs on the issue here, but also more questionable trash reactions, all the funny boomer comments etc.

Well, as mentioned, unintentionally it became a social experiment exposing their own silliness.

Hopefully they check themselves before the wreck themselves with their own narratives and storylines. And think before typing.


Figments of fantasy and frustration seem to be an ongoing theme in this forum,

 

sometimes it feels like a period palace drama, with many bitching empresses and concubines fighting!

Fight for what I am also not sure, but with every comment, they certainly reveal their own credibility or craziness!


Since this forum is public access, we actually hold more responsibility than we know to be well adjusted, critical members of society.

Not just maniacs obsessed with dicks, asses, and holes. (I mean, you can be lah, but at least have some intelligence in equal amounts)


✨💥 Sorry to put this all on blast, but the truth is the truth. It's 2020, time to do better. Period.💥✨

 

 

 

[singalion]

39 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

 

Really? A fucking si angmoh here to rob us of our jobs coming here to tell us what the benefits for Singapore are?? Really? You serious??? What a joke! It is only in Singapore that you can get away with such an attitude with the blessing of the local government. Uniquely Singapore! 

 

So sorry, but you are creating another myth.

Maybe you are not aware that the Freedom of expression for Foreigners (even tax paying resident foreigners) is quite restricted by the Employment Laws in Singapore.

 

In other parts of the world, irrespective whether I am citizen or Foreigner I would be able to express my free opinion on any topic or even could hold a public demonstration

and other sorts of protest if I wanted to.

 

You know, even the question from Singaporeans to Foreigners such as "How do you like Singapore?" can be quite tricky and can easily fall into the category of raising or voicing a local political opinion.  Ever thought about that?

 

Look, you don't refrain to stick your fingers into hot topic discussions on foreign countries or State leaders of such countries, then why should I do?

 

With all your low class behaviour against me, you might satisfy your personal grudge on foreigners but surely you are not making any point to convince your own compatriots.

 

And for myself? It just rubs down my back...

 

If you fail the intellectual ability to see the benefits of some things  or some policies for Singaporeans, then you should be thankful that I m here to tell you...

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by singalion

[Why?]

Whether you guys argue left or right, it will not change my view that I don't trust that devil.

[Guest Derelict]

2 hours ago, singalion said:

 

1. The Mercer report is done for each country and independently. If they parrot anyone then more the HR departments in the different countries.

 

2. The "most Singaporeans I spoke to" is mere "hearsay".  how many Singaporeans are changing jobs in current situation???

 

3. I m not sure if the statement "companies are favouring Foreign Employees" against Singaporeans would stand against facts.

Note for 1 SPass in the service industry (and paying SPass levies to the gov) you need to have 6 six Singaporean employees.

 

4. Wrong conclusion or false statement to say that wages are not one of the bulk of costs:

The biggest junk of expenses for companies in Singapore are:

1. Rental

2. Wages

 

Operations is not a major cost factor.

 

It is more myth building to state, wages are not a major factor of business costs in Singapore.

 

One could conclude that the person who posted the above probably is not part of the workforce at all, coming up with such unrealistic "findings".

 

Quote:

Labour cost, royalty payments and “others” are the main components of business costs in the manufacturing sector; similarly, labour cost constitutes a major cost component in the services sector

For firms in the manufacturing sector, labour cost, royalty payments and “others” constitute the main components of business costs. Collectively, they account for around 75 per cent of the business costs of small- and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and 67 per cent of the business costs of non-SMEs in the sector.

 

I only believe in what I see and experience.

 

The last two SMEs I worked for. The first only had a Filipino graphic designer. But the womaan boss treated him as her blue eyed boy. She offered me a job but no formal contract, so I thought her fishy and refused her.

 

The second SME had a half and half mix of locals and FTs. But the lady boss listened to the FTs more. She's too much of a micro manager. 

 

These bosses  just follow without thinking govt's decree that FTs are somehow superior. For me, which locals cannot do graphic design, be mod in a forum?

 

The was this local HR boss on TV some years ago. He was pompous and sanctimonious in denoucing people who listed their achievements in their CVs. He siad it's about teamwork.

 

Sure, we work as a team. But when you ask for someone's CV, you are asking individuals' contribution to companies. He is such cock fella.

 

I know you have proof and all from officail surveys and stuff. I NEVER belived them and NEVER will.

[jlone]

1 hour ago, Why? said:

Whether you guys argue left or right, it will not change my view that I don't trust that devil.

Strongly agree !

[Guest Guest]

1 hour ago, Why? said:

Whether you guys argue left or right, it will not change my view that I don't trust that devil.

 

45 minutes ago, jlone said:

Strongly agree !

 

Not just them, the more some slithering foreign snakes comes in here to justify its presence here in this country with more lies and distortions, the more devious all of them actually appears.