How is New Creation Church for Homosexuals

[Guest Curiosity]

May I know if theres any NCC members here. What is their stance on homosexuality and will they try to convert you or make you feel uncomfortable. 

[Guest Derelict]

Apparently, they're loaded. They own the Star Vista

[Guest Church mouse]

Duh all regular churches are homophobic. It's in their Bible! Most regular church goers are stupid. Unless, they have prestige or some positive spin they can gain from you joining them. Like you are good looking, sexy, hot, young, rich, well connected, more straight looking or acting than their regular closeted men married to a Christian girl, etc.

[Guest Church mouse]

Don't bother asking for their any stance on homosexuality! They will not have any that they will readily admit to the world - if they had any it will be unspoken, unspeakable,  self-contradicting, hypocritical or double speak. 🙂

[Guest Been there]

11 hours ago, Guest Curiosity said:

May I know if theres any NCC members here. What is their stance on homosexuality and will they try to convert you or make you feel uncomfortable. 

No, they won't force nor try to convert u if you stay low profile as normal church goer.  Some are not even true Christian but go there to network for biz.  They also won't force to tifth if u got no money or not willing. 

[Guest Jeeeezzzzzuuuussssssss]

Hello Darling!

 

Christians are all, paraphrasing their Bible and their god, sheeps. Yes the meh meh kind. You think their Bible written homosexuality as a sin, a large enough portion or majority of their followers dare to question their bible, apply critical or own thinking and use modern scientific approach to viewing homosexuality meh?

 

I would rather pin my hopes on the sun rising from the west the next morning.

 

Dream on!

[Guest Jp/]

Joseph prince do make some homosexuality slurs during his sermon from time to time. Having been in ncc for a good part of my youth there are no overt conversion therapy but it is always the bs ‘love the sinner hate the sin’. If you are okie to be dehumanised and being perceived as a sin object, then more power to you. There are tons of closeted gay people attending ncc who may not be able to live their life authentically before God. My take is if you like the sermon, just attend the service. Fellowship through serving and attending cg might be a stretch. 

[Guest Ordinary Sheep in NCC]

3 hours ago, Guest Jp/ said:

Joseph prince do make some homosexuality slurs during his sermon from time to time.

He very seldom regularly used homosexual slur, unless he accidentally touched on subject related to marriage or crossed path with the book on sodom and gomorrah  and subtly mentioned about homo and then moved on swiftly without being too obvious.  He has probably toned down after preaching "GRACE" and got enlightened somewhat unlike some die-hard anti-LGBT church.   As such, he is not very likeable among other stricter church communities in Singapore and thus being criticised regularly by other pastors on Youtube which he didn't care much about.   

 

However, he often openty criticised the adultery and the porn addicted people in his church and warned that there are fake Christians who caused pain to others.  He also preached about Jesus showing more Grace to the non-believer than some believers.  His preaching, is somewhat unique (sometime a little "Beng") unlike the standard preaching you found in other churches locally and internationally.  As such, some of his younger pastors kept long stylist and lightly dyed hair.  He is leaning towards more modern teaching ,to keep fundamentalist thinkers out of his church and you won't see much anti-LGBT volunteers in his church. 

 

Few years ago, I attended their Sunday sermons at Yishun satellite church, without fail.  I was always the early bird there and instantly their volunteers recognised me and started to "gossip" pleasantries about me among themselves.  One of them came to me, knelt beside my seat, held my hands and blessed me...hahaha.  I was shocked.

 

You can attend his church like watching a movie, pay your tithing (I usually give $2) and some people don't give at all before the sermon starts.  It is a discrete gesture when a large black pouch passed by your seat and nobody cares how much you give or don't give.  Once sermon end, just leave and don't loiter around trying to catch the limelight.

 

My sis is one of the volunteers and she started sharing interesting stories about some Christians who were also quite rude and self-entitled during her volunteering service every Sunday.  There were rewarding and angry times but the verdict my sister gave me was, NCC is very unlike City Harvest and Faith community Baptist Church.  Besides, she knew I am her Gay Brother and won't sabo me.

 

[Guest Guest]

Most importantly, you have to set your objective right when you attend Church, it is to seek God and nothing else. If not you will become very miserable attending church, especially when you are gay.

[Guest Ordinary Sheep in NCC]

2 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Most importantly, you have to set your objective right when you attend Church, it is to seek God and nothing else. If not you will become very miserable attending church, especially when you are gay.

That is very true.  I went there to soak in the holy spirit only.  I don't care who was sitting beside me because other people intention and mine were probably different. Some people went there for networking, others went there by tagging along with their wife or husband reluctantly. Parents brought their children there for many reasons.  My sister said there could be undercover spy from other church too and then they left for not blending in with the chemistry of Joseph's preaching.   I believed there were many LGBT who went there quietly for inner peace and spritual motivation. Like I said, Joseph intention is to focus less on sinners and more on the love of Jesus. So you won't feel sidelined or outcasted because of your orientation.  

 

What I like about him was, he tend to praise non believers more than "believers" and at times, appear down to earth by asking people not to idolise him and then joke a little while preaching the bible.  His style has gain traction internationally, that no other local pastors could achieve, thus breed jealousy by other churches.  He often talked about receiving toxic emails from other church pastors who told him to be more stern and strict according to the laws in bible. To the extend, he didn't like to read those emails anymore. 

 

I have not attended the church for couple of years now, due to the spike in growing number of sheeps, who switched camp to NCC,  after New Creation Saga.  But I still listen to NCC sermon via youtube and pray at home for peace.  This pandemic, has given me more excuses to do so.

 

It is optional to attend church, but do it by understanding the book in its entirety and not pick and choose as those seen by other churches.   Only then, you will feel accepted by GOD.

[Guest Ordinary Sheep in NCC]

22 minutes ago, Guest Ordinary Sheep in NCC said:

I have not attended the church for couple of years now, due to the spike in growing number of sheeps, who switched camp to NCC,  after New Creation Saga.  But I still listen to NCC sermon via youtube and pray at home for peace.  This pandemic, has given me more excuses to do so.

 

 

I stand corrected.  I was meant to say that after City Harvest Saga, many Christians switched camp to New Creation Church and causing a spike in members.

[Guest Surveillance]

Church services are captured on film and sent back to government nowadays.

[Guest Kaypoh]

52 minutes ago, Guest Surveillance said:

Church services are captured on film and sent back to government nowadays.

No need survellance.  Just need one Kaypoh fellow and the rest is exposed.

[Guest Surveillance]

32 minutes ago, Guest Kaypoh said:

No need survellance.  Just need one Kaypoh fellow and the rest is exposed.

They film to ensure safe distancing.

 

[Guest Guest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH1o61GsFiA

 

 

[Guest Still in NCC]

In any big group of people there will be gossip, politics etc. 

 

Not realistic to expect any church to be that perfect place where all are welcome like Jesus welcoming the tax collectors and prostitutes. 

 

Having said that, Ps Prince does preach about a grace and hope that all are seeking. 

 

Feel free to join the online service. No need to pay anything. 

[Guest Church mouse]

6 hours ago, Guest Still in NCC said:

In any big group of people there will be gossip, politics etc. 

 

Not realistic to expect any church to be that perfect place where all are welcome like Jesus welcoming the tax collectors and prostitutes. 

 

Having said that, Ps Prince does preach about a grace and hope that all are seeking. 

 

Feel free to join the online service. No need to pay anything. 

Why would anyone be interested in whatever the Christian Bible and their randomly lauded interpretors have to say? Just turn on the aircon at home and listen to a Buddhism podcast! We should not pay any attention to some needy, antiquated hateful middle Eastern sect repackaged and rebranded as "love" that got their voice amplified through centuries of politics and war.

 

Westerners now are enlightened via Buddhism. Christianity especially thrived during the dark ages/middle ages/medieval era.

 

We should just can it and dump it!

[Steve5380]

4 hours ago, Guest Church mouse said:

Why would anyone be interested in whatever the Christian Bible and their randomly lauded interpretors have to say? Just turn on the aircon at home and listen to a Buddhism podcast! We should not pay any attention to some needy, antiquated hateful middle Eastern sect repackaged and rebranded as "love" that got their voice amplified through centuries of politics and war.

 

Westerners now are enlightened via Buddhism. Christianity especially thrived during the dark ages/middle ages/medieval era.

 

We should just can it and dump it!

 

You have the right to embrace Buddhism and completely ignore Christianity.  This will do you no harm.

 

I like Buddhism too, but my religion of choice,  also fortunately the one I was taught, is Christianity,  in particular Catholicism.  I have not found a philosophy superior to the one of Jesus Christ. His is a model for humanity who wants to live a fully righteous life,  not for those who want to escape reality and seek accelerated death and reincarnation to attain an uncertain enlightenment. 

[wilfgene]

45 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

accelerated death

?

[Steve5380]

13 minutes ago, wilfgene said:

?

 

By "accelerated death" I don't mean suicide,  but detachment,  detachment of life experiences of this world in a quest for enlightenment.

[wilfgene]

4 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

By "accelerated death" I don't mean suicide,  but detachment,  detachment of life experiences of this world in a quest for enlightenment.

In contrast to quest of salvation and deliverance (?) through crusade against the northern pagans and spreading viruses to isolated natives communities?

There's a book on the changing faces of monotheism?

Or consider Rose Nylund's take.

[Steve5380]

5 minutes ago, wilfgene said:

In contrast to quest of salvation and deliverance (?) through crusade against the northern pagans and spreading viruses to isolated natives communities?

There's a book on the changing faces of monotheism?

Or consider Rose Nylund's take.

 

I know nothing of Rose Nylund since I have never watched The Golden Girls.

 

Much of a quest of salvation and deliverance is by ignorant people.  The quest should start for a Heaven on Earth feeling good for one's righteous life in old age. And if there is an afterlife,  so the better in a supernatural heaven.  

[Guest Church mouse]

3 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

You have the right to embrace Buddhism and completely ignore Christianity.  This will do you no harm.

 

I like Buddhism too, but my religion of choice,  also fortunately the one I was taught, is Christianity,  in particular Catholicism.  I have not found a philosophy superior to the one of Jesus Christ. His is a model for humanity who wants to live a fully righteous life,  not for those who want to escape reality and seek accelerated death and reincarnation to attain an uncertain enlightenment. 

Righteous or self-righteous? The difference for too many Christians is far too undiscernible, negligible and fragile, most of them got it wrong. Unfortunately, the pressures and temptations to "appear" righteous in front of others often turn sheeps into loudmouthed self-righteous folks. Not cool! Yikes

 

Buddhism actually teaches detachment, not escape from reality. There is a difference!

 

On the other hand, by unreservedly encouraging all gays to remain celibate or get married to opposite sex, Christian teaching is about the ultimate escape from reality! 🙄

[Guest Church mouse]

2 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

The quest should start for a Heaven on Earth feeling good for one's righteous life in old age. And if there is an afterlife,  so the better in a supernatural heaven.  

The Christian heaven with their pearly Gates and angels flying around blowing trumpets is also hypothetical isn't it?

 

The bulk of Christianity teachings is irrational. It's fluffier than the goose down pillows from Ikea. It's an emotional crutch for old age, especially easy for senile old people who have lost grasp of logic to fall prey to. The soothing comfort it provides is transactional - it requires the checking of your brains and your most harmless and authentic identity at the door.

 

If they still insist the earth is flat, who are you and I to disagree with them?

 

 

 

[Guest Church mouse]

I would rather be a church mouse than a sheep, or worse, a wolf in sheep's clothing which many Christians are. Look at those Catholic priests. I am sure the ones in Singapore are awaiting their "me three" moment of fame, too.

[Steve5380]

8 hours ago, Guest Church mouse said:

 

Buddhism actually teaches detachment, not escape from reality. There is a difference!

 

On the other hand, by unreservedly encouraging all gays to remain celibate or get married to opposite sex, Christian teaching is about the ultimate escape from reality! 🙄

 

Detachment from reality?  Or is it detachment from desires and reactions to realities?  

 

Christianity's reasons to condemn homosexuality are only one escape from reality.  The main escape from reality are the dogmas of the Christian organized religions.  But one can be a Christian,  a follower of the philosophy of Christ and his moral teachings, while staying independent and not integrating with some herd of Christian sheep.

 

8 hours ago, Guest Church mouse said:

The Christian heaven with their pearly Gates and angels flying around blowing trumpets is also hypothetical isn't it?

 

The bulk of Christianity teachings is irrational. It's fluffier than the goose down pillows from Ikea. It's an emotional crutch for old age, especially easy for senile old people who have lost grasp of logic to fall prey to. The soothing comfort it provides is transactional - it requires the checking of your brains and your most harmless and authentic identity at the door.

 

If they still insist the earth is flat, who are you and I to disagree with them?

 

 

Your idea of angels flying around blowing trumpets you probably got from the paintings of Michelangelo at the Sistine Chapel.  If you have the fortune to reach old age in good health, you will be surprised by how clear the mind of an old person can be.   More emotional, but not in need of emotional crutches.   I agree that Buddhism is more rational than Christianity, it does not venture into the unknowns Christianity does,  but it still cannot go beyond being a speculation.  Modern Science has not found any evidence of reincarnation and karma in the natural world.

 

 

[Neh Neh]

Beware of false preaching. A handsome man in white shirt, not necessary meaning he has pink neh neh. The darken neh neh will only be reviewed when he undress.

[Guest Nehx2]

51 minutes ago, Neh Neh said:

Beware of false preaching. A handsome man in white shirt, not necessary meaning he has pink neh neh. The darken neh neh will only be reviewed when he undress.

What about angmo beng preaching in cafe rider/biker jacket?

 

He is really bullet proof from criticisms from fundentalists and gays?

[Guest Neh Neh Pok]

9 hours ago, Neh Neh said:

Beware of false preaching. A handsome man in white shirt, not necessary meaning he has pink neh neh. The darken neh neh will only be reviewed when he undress.

Mormons.

[Guest Oprah]

23 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

You have the right to embrace Buddhism and completely ignore Christianity.  This will do you no harm.

 

 also fortunately the one I was taught, is Christianity,  in particular Catholicism.  I have not found a philosophy superior to the one of Jesus Christ. His is a model for humanity who wants to live a fully righteous life,  not for those who want to escape reality and seek accelerated death and reincarnation to attain an uncertain enlightenment. 

 

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, Guest Oprah said:

 

 

What you expect?  Who knows what Oprah thinks of Buddhism vs. Christianity?  Does she really have time for that?  

She has plenty of success.  Let her think that this is forever.   

[singalion]

In my humble and honest opinion, Steve5380 you should stay out of the discussion of this church as you should stay away on discussions of Christian religion (or maybe all religions).

 

You are not in Singapore, you have no chance to take part at any sermons, masses of this church here in Singapore.  There is no way to make contact with this church.

 

I fail to understand when you describe yourself as a non christian but always and at every corner engage in discussing on Christianity,

bringing up Christianity into threads which have nothing to do with religion.

Your posts on Buddhism here amount to proselytism.

Let people believe what they prefer.

 

Most of your posts on religion are offensive.

 

I tried my best to convey the message to you in private messages but you seem reluctant to reflect or practise self restraint.

 

I have been educated in a tolerant and open way but here in Asia it is better to cool down on religion.

 

You bumped on backlash at many threads once you started on religion. Didn't you note?

Never learn?

 

Stay out of these discussions.

 

It is better for you and maybe better for the good of BW.

 

Trust me my post is not meant as an attack but some open honest words from me.

 

 

 

[stickysweet]

.....

Edited September 26, 2021 by stickysweet

[wilfgene]

8 hours ago, singalion said:

In my humble and honest opinion, Steve5380 you should stay out of the discussion of this church as you should stay away on discussions of Christian religion (or maybe all religions).

 

You are not in Singapore, you have no chance to take part at any sermons, masses of this church here in Singapore.  There is no way to make contact with this church.

 

I fail to understand when you describe yourself as a non christian but always and at every corner engage in discussing on Christianity,

bringing up Christianity into threads which have nothing to do with religion.

Your posts on Buddhism here amount to proselytism.

Let people believe what they prefer.

 

Most of your posts on religion are offensive.

 

I tried my best to convey the message to you in private messages but you seem reluctant to reflect or practise self restraint.

 

I have been educated in a tolerant and open way but here in Asia it is better to cool down on religion.

 

You bumped on backlash at many threads once you started on religion. Didn't you note?

Never learn?

 

Stay out of these discussions.

 

It is better for you and maybe better for the good of BW.

 

Trust me my post is not meant as an attack but some open honest words from me.

 

 

 

 

On 3/26/2021 at 4:29 AM, Guest Church mouse said:

Why would anyone be interested in whatever the Christian Bible and their randomly lauded interpretors have to say? Just turn on the aircon at home and listen to a Buddhism podcast! We should not pay any attention to some needy, antiquated hateful middle Eastern sect repackaged and rebranded as "love" that got their voice amplified through centuries of politics and war.

 

Westerners now are enlightened via Buddhism. Christianity especially thrived during the dark ages/middle ages/medieval era.

 

We should just can it and dump it!

 

On 3/26/2021 at 9:31 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

You have the right to embrace Buddhism and completely ignore Christianity.  This will do you no harm.

 

I like Buddhism too, but my religion of choice,  also fortunately the one I was taught, is Christianity,  in particular Catholicism.  I have not found a philosophy superior to the one of Jesus Christ. His is a model for humanity who wants to live a fully righteous life,  not for those who want to escape reality and seek accelerated death and reincarnation to attain an uncertain enlightenment. 

 

On 3/26/2021 at 10:18 AM, wilfgene said:

?

 

On 3/26/2021 at 10:33 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

By "accelerated death" I don't mean suicide,  but detachment,  detachment of life experiences of this world in a quest for enlightenment.

Steve is generous with his opinions and kind enough to explain and elaborate.

Even more appreciative since he has never watched 'The Golden Girls'.

[Steve5380]

10 hours ago, singalion said:

 

In my humble and honest opinion, Steve5380 you should stay out of the discussion of this church as you should stay away on discussions of Christian religion (or maybe all religions).

 

You are not in Singapore, you have no chance to take part at any sermons, masses of this church here in Singapore.  There is no way to make contact with this church.

 

I fail to understand when you describe yourself as a non christian but always and at every corner engage in discussing on Christianity,

bringing up Christianity into threads which have nothing to do with religion.

Your posts on Buddhism here amount to proselytism.

Let people believe what they prefer.

 

Most of your posts on religion are offensive.

 

I tried my best to convey the message to you in private messages but you seem reluctant to reflect or practise self restraint.

 

I have been educated in a tolerant and open way but here in Asia it is better to cool down on religion.

 

You bumped on backlash at many threads once you started on religion. Didn't you note?

Never learn?

 

Stay out of these discussions.

 

It is better for you and maybe better for the good of BW.

 

Trust me my post is not meant as an attack but some open honest words from me.

 

 

 

 

I have a good attitude towards religion.  I don't condemn religiousness but I rather find interest in it.  I am not an atheist that calls religion nonsense.  Instead i am an agnostic who likes to believe what I find believable, which does not include doctrines of organized religions.  I am a Christian,  because my guide is the philosophy of Christ.

 

This thread IS about religion, specifically in its approach to homosexuality.  And I am qualified to participate in the conversation since I am a gay with religiousness.

 

I am also familiar with religious service in Singapore.   Many years ago I attended a Sunday service at the main City Harvest Church in Jurong West.  There I attended a sermon by pastor Kong He among other preaching, shortly after the scandal around him broke lose.  I had the opportunity to evaluate the works of a Singaporean megachurch.

 

And I have been vastly involved with religion, perhaps already many years before you were born.  I attended Catholic schools for eleven years.  Your extent of misunderstanding is shown in your accusation that I try to proselytize!   We agnostic don't proselytize, we don't try to talk people into some doctrine.  And my opinion of Buddhism is as high as it gets towards a religion that is not my native one.

 

Now let's change for a moment from ME... to YOU.

 

This is not the first time you criticize me unfairly for some alleged misdeed of mine.  Several times you called me out for not ignoring the Guests but instead having discussions with them.  And you did this while YOU get into fights with them and exchange posts with them which are far from being completely civil.

 

So please stop lecturing me.  I don't challenge what you say that it is your "humble and honest opinion" and it is meant as "some honest words" from you.  

I welcome your honest opinions and honest words,  but if they are about me they should please conform with reality.

 

 

[Steve5380]

On 3/27/2021 at 4:25 AM, stickysweet said:

 

So the next question then -- is homosexuality a sin?  That is another topic altogether , but i feel it is not important and will not be covering it. Why so? Because too many people (gays and pastors included) get so hung up on this topic and fight and quarrel over it. Whether homosexuality is a sin or not doesn't really matter at the end of the day. Jesus himself did not focus on this topic and and there isn't even a word used for "gay" in the bible. The closest word used is "sodomite" which associates the subject with the action of sodomy, rather than with the feelings of love between 2 men.

 

 

Of course homosexuality is not a sin.  It is a characteristic, an "orientation" that is ever more accepted as being inborn.   Even the strict Catholic Church has dropped the condemnation of homosexuality and only retains the declaration of homosexual sex as sinful.  

 

 

On 3/27/2021 at 4:25 AM, stickysweet said:

 

Unlike other religions, true Christianity does not require you to perform any works to be saved (e.g. perform charity works, observe fasting, meditate, be on good behaviour all the time etc). All the work has been done for you by Christ, so you only need to believe in Him & His salvation! You also do not need to attend church, give offerings or pray all the time. All of that is optional but encouraged so as to build your faith in Him.

 

 

It is hard to discover what "true" Christianity is,  but I suspect that if Christ is somewhere in control,  he will not require "a belief in Him & His salvation",  which sounds kind of selfish and narcissist,  but that we recognize the value of his teachings and follow them or something similar.  

[Guest lol]

A really amazing message by Joseph Prince of NCC :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFSqkINFwVM

[Guest lol]

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[Guest What about u]

On 3/27/2021 at 10:35 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

What you expect?  Who knows what Oprah thinks of Buddhism vs. Christianity?  Does she really have time for that?  

She has plenty of success.  Let her think that this is forever.   

She is probably agnostic that drove  her into success.  Can't say the same about you. 

[LoveCum]

i recall a church have TOPS on the left, Btms on the right Service，They put a rainbow flag and said " OUT SERVICE. " Church in queenstown

Edited March 30, 2021 by LoveCum

[Guest insider]

 

 

July 23, 2019

 

The New Creation Church (NCC), which earned a hefty S$143 million income last year, has said that it never desired or intended to go into business.

 

Some S$122 million, or about 85 per cent of NCC’s 2018 earnings, came from tithes and offerings from the congregation. The church has funds and reserves of S$633 million, which is set aside to be used for future needs and to advance its vision and mission.

Today, NCC owns Daystar Child Development Centre, and a subsidiary, Rock Productions – which owns The Star Performing Arts Centre, Shine Auditorium, Rock Gifts & Book Centre and Omega Tours & Travel, which primarily provides tour packages to Israel. Rock Productions also runs Shine Auditorium at Shaw Tower, which is used for its youth services.

 

In 2016, NCC Senior Pastor Joseph Prince revealed that the church paid S$460 million for The Star Performing Arts Centre, where it holds its worship services.

 

An NCC spokesman explained that the church ventured into business to establish a permanent place of worship after years of moving from hotel to hotel to hold its services.

 

The spokesman told the national broadsheet that “It was never our desire nor intention to get into business…Over the years, these entities were set up primarily to benefit and meet the needs of our congregation, and to help the community.”

 

The spokesman said that the church established Rock Productions, which was able to build, lease and operate the Rock Auditorium in Suntec City to house the congregation, since land allocated for religious use was too small to accommodate the expanding congregation.

 

The Rock Auditorium, however, soon grew too small for the congregation which moved to The Star Performing Arts Centre in 2012. On average, about 34,000 worshippers joined NCC’s Sunday Services last year at the The Star – which boasts a 5,000-seat theatre.

 

The NCC spokesman said: “A business entity was necessary for us to participate in a tender in 2007 to build, lease and operate The Star, an integrated civic, cultural and retail hub.

“It has also enabled the NCC Group to be in a better financial position as The Star PAC allows the group to generate income to defray its expenses and to save on expenses that would have been incurred from renting other venues of comparable size and outfit.”

“We believe in the importance of strong and transparent governance and have a separate governing board to manage our entities. A strict arm’s-length policy is adhered to in the day-to-day running of the church and its entities.”

 

 

 

[Guest insider]

New Creation Church dismisses report that Joseph Prince is among top 10 richest pastors

• Published Oct 23, 2014, 2:27 pm SGT

 

 

SINGAPORE - An online report claiming that Joseph Prince, the founder and senior pastor of New Creation Church, has a net worth of US$5 million ($6.36 million), has been roundly dismissed by the church's council. 

 

In a statement posted on its website on Tuesday, the council said that the pastor had stopped drawing a salary from the church since 2009.

They said that Mr Prince had shared with them that his net worth is "substantially lower than the US$5m that has been alleged". The council also said that it regards Mr Prince's net worth as personal in nature.

 

The Oct 7 report, which has been making its rounds online, was published on www.richestlifestyle.com, an entertainment website which describes itself as "dedicated to the celebrity lifestyle", and "giving you scoops on luxury cars and yachts" and "celebrity net worth". It is purportedly has an office in New York.

The site listed Mr Prince as the 10th richest pastor in the world - alongside preachers such as American evangelist Billy Graham and Nigerian bishop David Oyedepo. The post said Mr Prince reportedly draws a salary of $550,000 but did not attribute the source of the information.

 

The pastor hosts a religious television show called Destined to Reign, which is broadcast in the United States, Europe, Africa, Australia, Israel, South Korea and Indonesia. It is part of the non-profit international Joseph Prince Ministries which was established in 2007, and is independent of New Creation Church.

 

 

 

The church's council said that Mr Prince "recognises that a strong foundation of corporate governance can only enhance the church". They added that he had voluntarily stepped down as a member of the Council to focus on his spiritual role.

 

It added: "The Council is disappointed with the manner in which the reports were generated and circulated without proper effort having being made to validate the facts. The Council asks that these reports be withdrawn or clarified, so as not to undermine the good work of the church and Pastor Prince."

New Creation Church, which is a member of the National Council of Churches of Singapore, first started holding meetings from a flat in block 17 Holland Drive in 1983. Since then, it has grown to have more than 31,000 worshippers. Members congregate for services across five venues here, including the Star Performing Arts Centre in Buona Vista.

 

The 5,000-seater Star Theatre is located within the $500 million Star Performing Arts Centre which is operated by the church's business arm, Rock Productions. Members contributed to the centre's building fund.

 

New Creation buys Star Vista for $300m: 9 things to know about the church, Pastor Prince and the mall

Nov 21, 2019,

 

4. Founder listed as the 10th richest pastor globally?

In 2014, US-based entertainment website Richest Lifestyle published an online article that ranked Mr Prince as the 10th richest pastor in the world.

 

Claiming that Mr Prince had a net worth of US$5 million (S$6.4 million), it also said the senior pastor drew a salary of $550,000 a year.

 

New Creation has since rubbished the claims, saying that the report was "generated and circulated without proper effort being made to validate the facts".

 

It, however, did not provide an exact figure for the pastor's salary, clarifying only that Mr Prince had shared with the church that his net worth is "substantially lower than the US$5m that has been alleged".

 

The council noted too that the pastor had stopped drawing a salary from the church since 2009.

 

 

[Guest insider]

New Creation buys Star Vista for $300m: 9 things to know about the church, Pastor Prince and the mall

 

• Published Nov 21, 2019, 5:50 pm SGT

 

 

 

SINGAPORE - On Wednesday (Nov 20), New Creation Church announced that it has acquired The Star Vista mall for $296 million "to protect the interest of the church".

While the mega church previously owned only The Star Performing Arts Centre (PAC) - a concert venue in the mall that the church also uses for its services - it will now own the entire building.

 

The purchase was made after the church got wind that CapitaLand, the ex-owner of the retail space, was in talks with other buyers for a potential sale of the mall.

By securing the deal through its business arm Rock Productions, New Creation hopes to pre-empt the unpredictability of The Star Vista going to another buyer, which could be less supportive of the church's use of the premises for religious ends. 

 

Here are nine things to know about the church, the church's founder and Star Vista.

1. How New Creation was founded

Born in Singapore to a Sikh priest and Chinese mother, New Creation's founder Joseph Prince became a Christian aged 12.

 

He and a few friends were asked to leave a traditional church in 1983 because of their open displays of worship, which led them to start their own church, New Creation, in a four-room Housing Board flat in Holland Road that year.

 

The church registered with the Registrar of Societies in 1984.

 

Mr Prince became the church's pastor and is commonly known among followers as Pastor Prince.

2. From 150 to 31,000 followers

With his emphasis on the grace and unconditional love of God, Mr Prince then quickly acquired a following among Singaporean Christians more used to being told to work for their salvation.

 

Numbering just 150 people in 1990, New Creation today has more than 31,000 members, a rapid expansion that has led it to search for more and bigger venues to accommodate worshippers.

3. Going global

Mr Prince's charisma has reached a global audience too, with him authoring at least 20 books and hosting a religious television show that can be seen in more than 200 countries, including the United States, Israel, South Korea and Indonesia.

4. Founder listed as the 10th richest pastor globally?

In 2014, US-based entertainment website Richest Lifestyle published an online article that ranked Mr Prince as the 10th richest pastor in the world.

Claiming that Mr Prince had a net worth of US$5 million (S$6.4 million), it also said the senior pastor drew a salary of $550,000 a year.

New Creation has since rubbished the claims, saying that the report was "generated and circulated without proper effort being made to validate the facts".

It, however, did not provide an exact figure for the pastor's salary, clarifying only that Mr Prince had shared with the church that his net worth is "substantially lower than the US$5m that has been alleged".

 

The council noted too that the pastor had stopped drawing a salary from the church since 2009.

5. Other possible sources of Pastor Prince's income

While he no longer draws a salary from the church, it is widely understood that Mr Prince has other potential sources of income.

He hosts a global show, Destined to Reign, that airs daily on several major American television networks such as ABC Family. It is produced by Joseph Prince Ministries, an international non-profit organisation that is independent of New Creation and headquartered in the United States.

 

A 2012 tax document obtained by The Sunday Times showed that Joseph Prince Ministries had a profit of US$1.7 million that financial year, although, according to the document, none of these was given to Mr Prince, who is listed as president of the group.

 

Mr Prince could also have been paid on his overseas speaking tours or from the sales of his books - one of which, The Power of Right Believing, made it to No. 2 on The New York Times' bestseller list in the advice and "how to" category.

 

Special editions, translations, and many CDs and DVDs have also been spun off from his writings and sermons, all of which could have generated profits in royalties for the senior pastor.

 

 

6. Church raised $122m in one year

In July this year, a review by The Straits Times found that New Creation was the nation's second most successful fund-raiser, raking in $122 million in donations in 2018 alone.

 

Pipped only by The National University of Singapore, the mega church was one of four religious organisations that made the top 10 of the list - City Harvest Church was 7th, Kwan Im Thong Hood Cho Temple came in eighth, and Faith Community Baptist Church tenth.

7. Other successful fund raisers

New Creation Church also made headlines earlier for its fundraising drives.

 

To pay for its 5,000-seat $500 million Star Performing Arts Centre, which it had won the tender to build, lease and operate in 2007, the church asked for contributions from its members.

 

It quickly set a record of $18 million raised in a day in April 2008, which it then superseded with $18.8 million raised in February 2009 and later $21.1 million in August 2010.

In Feb 2016, the church announced that the $500 million sum was finally fully-paid for, nearly nine years after the tender was first secured, largely from the "voluntary giving of our congregation to the church as well as to the building".

 

Today, its other service venues include the Marina Bay Sands Ballrooms and Cathay Cineplex Causeway Point.

 

It is unclear at this time how New Creation paid for The Star Vista.

8. Arts centre for worship - and pop star shows

Located in The Star Vista jointly developed by property giant CapitaLand and New Creation's business arm Rock Productions, the performing arts centre has hosted concerts by local and international artists such as Ed Sheeran.

 

Designed by world renowned performing arts facility design consultants Artec Consultants and Bromberg, the concert hall is also used for New Creation's church services on Sundays and one mid-week night.

9. Star Vista's tenants

By buying the rest of the mall, New Creation will also own the shopping mall component of the development, which opened in 2012.

Major tenants of the mall include Beauty in the Pot and LeNu, Canton Paradise Teahouse, RedMan by Phoon Huat, Swee Lee and Cold Storage.

 

New Creation has said it will maintain these areas for commercial purposes in accordance with zoning guidelines, and that it is exploring possibilities for CapitaLand to continue operating and managing the mall on its behalf.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest insider]

New Creation Church insider speaks out

01/12/2015

 

Insiders of Joseph Prince’s prosperity cult, New Creation Church, are speaking out.

 

In this article, an insider gives us insight to what it requires for someone to be in New Creation Church Leadersip and shares how Joseph Prince has constructed an idolatrous Jesus to make merchandise of people.

 

My wife and I started attending New Creation Church (NCC) in 2005.

 

When I first attended NCC, I felt welcomed and not judged. It was an overall positive experience with good messages. My first impression of Joseph Prince (JP) was an honest guy speaking his mind. The depth of the messages, initially I thought they were good. JP used loads of Bible references as compared to the previous church. He also uses a lot of the Hebrew roots study method. I liked that cerebral stuff. But I soon realised much of this material is available online.

 

I served in the pastoral care ministry for about 1 year prior to having kids. Part of the interview process was asking whether I had been tithing for the past 6 months. A friend mine wanted to serve as well and was asked this same question. I thought it odd, but since i was tithing then, it wasn’t a problem. But this is a consistent fact for church members who want to serve in any ministries within NCC. I was serving in a tiny role as an usher in the Wedding Preparations Seminar. Very far away from the inner circle.

 

If someone tried to correct me about NCC or JP back then, I would of course, be defensive and spouted every letter of JP’s teachings. I too studied the Bible, but at that time it was through the lens of JP.

 

I only knew JP as Senior Pastor of NCC. No personal experience with him one to one. His persona on the pulpit has always been charismatic, on many occasions self-centred and ego-centric, prideful over his achievements of building a church so big. He has a tendency to challenge other pastors or teachers of the Word indirectly by not mentioning names. Here are some common challenges he would typically say:

 

“If you’re teaching the Word correctly, how come your church does not have many testimonies of healing?”

 

“If you’re teaching the Word correctly, how come your church size is shrinking?”

 

He goes to say that NCC has many emails coming in every week about healing testimonials, and that the church is growing so fast and large etc.

Only recently this year in 2015, our family stopped going to NCC because we woke up from the spell. I was also concerned for my kids, what they were teaching at the Children’s Church.

 

Everything taught in NCC was about Jesus. Everything is about Grace. Everything is give thanks to Jesus. How about give thanks to God the Father? I’m not reducing the significance and importance of Jesus. But Jesus was sent to us to know the Father. JP has created a barrier to the Father by creating this false “Genie Jesus” as I call it. Sure they did teach about Joseph, Daniel and all the other Bible heroes but it always ended up being Genie-Jesus-centric. JP creates this image of Jesus that suits his personal agenda, which is to sell more books, DVDs, etc. and to convince people to tithe to NCC. As you know the famous message of “Your Tithe Testifies He’s Alive!” – that message was, if I remember correctly, delivered by Pastor Lian.

 

Our Christian walk should point to YHVH. Through seeing Jesus in the Bible, we see the Father’s heart. But Jesus should not be used like a magic genie and grant you 3 wishes sort of thing.

 

I was OK with such teachings at first until somewhere after 2012 or so, I started reading and learning from other pastors and teachers.

 

At NCC, we took sin lightly. Sin as explained by NCC is “Hamartia” = Missing the mark. Problem was they did not dwell on the moral consequences. The fundamental pillars of moral values found in the 10 commandments are not taught. This is another problem with NCC. The total eradication of God’s Holy Laws.

 

We also ended up becoming materialistic, to which I’ve honestly asked myself, is that really God’s desire for me and my family?

 

Besides the cult worship status of JP and his ability to sway tens of thousands to “tithe” to the church, miracle seed sundays, etc, the fundamental problem was exalting the Genie Jesus instead of Abba Father God/YHVH.

 

When the church management made the announcement that JP and his family may move to the US to “plant a church”, that’s when I started digging and found out that the Joseph Prince Ministries is a registered company in the US. This must be odd and somebody is moving money around…just my thoughts here

 

(seehttp://www.guidestar.org/organizations/20-8090240/joseph-prince-ministries.aspx#financials / check out the Financials tab in the link too).

 

I was surprised to find out many ex-NCC people who questioned JP’s teachings. So they just started looking elsewhere. I met many senior members outside of church attending other bible study seminars. At last year’s lecture series by Pastor Stephen Armstrong from Verse by Verse Ministry at YMCA, I was pleasantly surprised to see many familiar faces.

 

Since we were not part of any cell group for a long time, we just stopped going to NCC. We now attend a small, simple church where the first thing we did was sit through the Sunday school for the kids to check their teachings.

 

We thank God for pulling us out and showing us His truth from His Word.

 

Sam*, former NCC member
(*Name has been changed to protect his identity)

 

[Neh Neh]

27 minutes ago, Guest insider said:

New Creation Church insider speaks out

01/12/2015

 

Insiders of Joseph Prince’s prosperity cult, New Creation Church, are speaking out.

 

In this article, an insider gives us insight to what it requires for someone to be in New Creation Church Leadersip and shares how Joseph Prince has constructed an idolatrous Jesus to make merchandise of people.

 

My wife and I started attending New Creation Church (NCC) in 2005.

 

When I first attended NCC, I felt welcomed and not judged. It was an overall positive experience with good messages. My first impression of Joseph Prince (JP) was an honest guy speaking his mind. The depth of the messages, initially I thought they were good. JP used loads of Bible references as compared to the previous church. He also uses a lot of the Hebrew roots study method. I liked that cerebral stuff. But I soon realised much of this material is available online.

 

I served in the pastoral care ministry for about 1 year prior to having kids. Part of the interview process was asking whether I had been tithing for the past 6 months. A friend mine wanted to serve as well and was asked this same question. I thought it odd, but since i was tithing then, it wasn’t a problem. But this is a consistent fact for church members who want to serve in any ministries within NCC. I was serving in a tiny role as an usher in the Wedding Preparations Seminar. Very far away from the inner circle.

 

If someone tried to correct me about NCC or JP back then, I would of course, be defensive and spouted every letter of JP’s teachings. I too studied the Bible, but at that time it was through the lens of JP.

 

I only knew JP as Senior Pastor of NCC. No personal experience with him one to one. His persona on the pulpit has always been charismatic, on many occasions self-centred and ego-centric, prideful over his achievements of building a church so big. He has a tendency to challenge other pastors or teachers of the Word indirectly by not mentioning names. Here are some common challenges he would typically say:

 

“If you’re teaching the Word correctly, how come your church does not have many testimonies of healing?”

 

“If you’re teaching the Word correctly, how come your church size is shrinking?”

 

He goes to say that NCC has many emails coming in every week about healing testimonials, and that the church is growing so fast and large etc.

Only recently this year in 2015, our family stopped going to NCC because we woke up from the spell. I was also concerned for my kids, what they were teaching at the Children’s Church.

 

Everything taught in NCC was about Jesus. Everything is about Grace. Everything is give thanks to Jesus. How about give thanks to God the Father? I’m not reducing the significance and importance of Jesus. But Jesus was sent to us to know the Father. JP has created a barrier to the Father by creating this false “Genie Jesus” as I call it. Sure they did teach about Joseph, Daniel and all the other Bible heroes but it always ended up being Genie-Jesus-centric. JP creates this image of Jesus that suits his personal agenda, which is to sell more books, DVDs, etc. and to convince people to tithe to NCC. As you know the famous message of “Your Tithe Testifies He’s Alive!” – that message was, if I remember correctly, delivered by Pastor Lian.

 

Our Christian walk should point to YHVH. Through seeing Jesus in the Bible, we see the Father’s heart. But Jesus should not be used like a magic genie and grant you 3 wishes sort of thing.

 

I was OK with such teachings at first until somewhere after 2012 or so, I started reading and learning from other pastors and teachers.

 

At NCC, we took sin lightly. Sin as explained by NCC is “Hamartia” = Missing the mark. Problem was they did not dwell on the moral consequences. The fundamental pillars of moral values found in the 10 commandments are not taught. This is another problem with NCC. The total eradication of God’s Holy Laws.

 

We also ended up becoming materialistic, to which I’ve honestly asked myself, is that really God’s desire for me and my family?

 

Besides the cult worship status of JP and his ability to sway tens of thousands to “tithe” to the church, miracle seed sundays, etc, the fundamental problem was exalting the Genie Jesus instead of Abba Father God/YHVH.

 

When the church management made the announcement that JP and his family may move to the US to “plant a church”, that’s when I started digging and found out that the Joseph Prince Ministries is a registered company in the US. This must be odd and somebody is moving money around…just my thoughts here

 

(seehttp://www.guidestar.org/organizations/20-8090240/joseph-prince-ministries.aspx#financials / check out the Financials tab in the link too).

 

I was surprised to find out many ex-NCC people who questioned JP’s teachings. So they just started looking elsewhere. I met many senior members outside of church attending other bible study seminars. At last year’s lecture series by Pastor Stephen Armstrong from Verse by Verse Ministry at YMCA, I was pleasantly surprised to see many familiar faces.

 

Since we were not part of any cell group for a long time, we just stopped going to NCC. We now attend a small, simple church where the first thing we did was sit through the Sunday school for the kids to check their teachings.

 

We thank God for pulling us out and showing us His truth from His Word.

 

Sam*, former NCC member
(*Name has been changed to protect his identity)

 

Suggest you go to attend Anglican navigator course. You are not correct to say only taught about Jesus and not about father. Jesus the son and father and holy spirit are one. (The holy trinity). If you seek correct teaching, dont goto those New Churches, goto Anglican, Catholic, methodist, ect.

[Twink7inchbedok_east]

8 minutes ago, Neh Neh said:

Suggest you go to attend Anglican navigator course. You are not correct to say only taught about Jesus and not about father. Jesus the son and father and holy spirit are one. (The holy trinity). If you seek correct teaching, dont goto those New Churches, goto Anglican, Catholic, methodist, ect.

I agree to this, a church with solid doctrine is better than new churches that has fluid doctrine. 

[Guest insider]

55 minutes ago, Neh Neh said:

Suggest you go to attend Anglican navigator course. You are not correct to say only taught about Jesus and not about father. Jesus the son and father and holy spirit are one. (The holy trinity). If you seek correct teaching, dont goto those New Churches, goto Anglican, Catholic, methodist, ect.

The insider news was from a former member of the church. Not from me. I just copy over to read.

 

 

[singalion]

 

The business endeavours of these new churches seem quite extravagant. I guess they understood the word "rich" in a wrong sense, more to rich pocket than rich spirit.

 

The more monies they accumulate the more temptations to suck into the wealth at such organisations.

City Harvest should have been the best example how things go overboard. And this church started in concerts too. With the different company sections somehow connected to this one church it is easy to channel monies somewhere or into the pockets of certain people.

 

What you read a lot is that these new churches pressure their followers very much to give money.

To my surprise on the statistics, just 581,000 out of 122 million collected in one year went for charity or charitable purposes.

 

The founder not disclosing his salary tells me, it must be too shocking for the normal people to know...

 

The government should actually impose on all these churches (religious organisations) to make public what they do with the monies and treat them like listed companies.

 

All this extreme money accumulation would already be the biggest deterrent to me.

 

 

 

 

If I ever have to meet this Mr Prince, I would tell him the following:

Mark 10:21

Jesus: “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Guest]

16 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

It is hard to discover what "true" Christianity is,  but I suspect that if Christ is somewhere in control,  he will not require "a belief in Him & His salvation",  which sounds kind of selfish and narcissist,  but that we recognize the value of his teachings and follow them or something similar.  

 

Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God, gave up all his power and authority in heaven, to be born into this world as a man so that he might die for our sins. Selfish and narcissist? He died the most excruciating, shameful and painful death ever recorded in history -- death by crucifixion -- to save us from our sins, because of his great love for us.

 

He is born without sin, yet he bore the sins of the world when he hung on the cross, and received all the punishment that we deserved. His body was beaten, pierced, scourged (by the roman 9-tail whip embedded with metal hooks that tore out flesh with each lash) until his back was 1 big gaping wound, and he hung on the cross for 6 agonizing hours before giving up his spirit finally.

 

3 days later, he was raised to life again and is now seated in heaven at the Father's right hand. How coincidental that this post is happening on the 2nd day of the Jewish Passover festival! Yes folks, yesterday was the anniversary of Jesus' death according to the Jewish calendar. And tmr (or the day after?) is the anniversary of his resurrection.

 

If u believe in Jesus (his death for u and his resurrection), u are in effect accepting his free gift of salvation. If u choose not to believe, u are in effect rejecting this gift. Salvation is a gift and God will not force u to accept it. It is your choice to accept or reject it. This precious gift is freely given to men -- it is free, but it did not come cheap. It cost Jesus his life. U cannot earn it by your good works or effort etc, but can only receive it freely.

 

Jesus himself said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life", and "No one comes to the Father except through Me", and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 

 

If u only see Jesus as a model to follow or as a great teacher, u will still not be saved because u are still ultimately relying on your own efforts (self-righteousness) which is doomed to failure. Jesus is a great teacher, yes, but his main reason for coming into the world is to be our Saviour and Lord ; )

[Steve5380]

5 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

 

 

If u believe in Jesus (his death for u and his resurrection), u are in effect accepting his free gift of salvation. If u choose not to believe, u are in effect rejecting this gift. Salvation is a gift and God will not force u to accept it. It is your choice to accept or reject it. This precious gift is freely given to men -- it is free, but it did not come cheap. It cost Jesus his life. U cannot earn it by your good works or effort etc, but can only receive it freely.

 

Jesus himself said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life", and "No one comes to the Father except through Me", and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 

 

If u only see Jesus as a model to follow or as a great teacher, u will still not be saved because u are still ultimately relying on your own efforts (self-righteousness) which is doomed to failure. Jesus is a great teacher, yes, but his main reason for coming into the world is to be our Saviour and Lord ; )

 

I find in this thread a good conversation about religiousness,  moderate and civil.  I am confident that @G_M does not mind posts that are respectful, don't attack other posters for their beliefs,  but present alternative views that merely open the mind for mutual reflection.  

 

Your theology is one Christian doctrine that maintains that it is through belief and not through good actions that salvation is attained.  On the other hand, there are opinions that actions speak louder than beliefs. This is the usual case for any secular actions.  

 

No great moral leader of the past and present has welcomed adoration and worship.  Personal greatness does not accept adulation.  And not only in moral issues.  One of the greatest scientists if not the greatest was Albert Einstein.  He was also a modest man.  He would have never said:  "Unless you believe IN ME you will never know physics".  Instead, he took himself out of the picture and simply established that unless we trust and understand the Special and General Theories of Relativity, we will not have a dominion of modern physics.    Jesus' alleged words "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" must have been symbolic, allegoric, meaning in reality that "My teachings are the Way, the Truth and the Life".  He did not represent himself as a God,  but that his teachings were of divine nature.   The same about him bringing "Salvation" and a path to "Heaven".  What salvation and which heaven?  Jesus was a Jew,  and neither the "original sin" nor heaven had been defined in his days.  It was St. Agustine the person who taught that we come to this world in a state of "sin".  Jews don't believe in this "original sin" and neither in a "heaven".   So his alleged words about salvation and heaven must have been figurative, allegoric. 

 

True belief cannot be forced.  It should be accepted by the spirit on its own merits,  not by a compulsion originating from love or fear or greed.   Faith alone cannot be a virtue.  We should believe that blueberries are excellent for our health.  But this by itself is worthless unless we actually do the action and eat the blueberries.   Yumm! 

. 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Steve5380