Covid Situation in SG discussion (compiled)

[sgmaven]

If a tenant who shares a room with another tenant in an HDB flat comes down with COVID, and still told to "recover at home", then the other tenant is at high-risk of contracting COVID.

 

Now, the other tenant self-administers an ART test, and goes to work after it shows a negative. Do you think this is acceptable?

[lonelyglobe]

On 12/27/2021 at 10:51 PM, Guest guest said:

When delta variant starts to spread in many countries back then, they also still very confidence and said no problem. Omicron is just a repeat of delta episode. 

Yes,  they have not learnt any lesson from wuhan to delta and now omicron. When probelm get out of hand, then they will say" we did not expect things to turn out this way. "

[lonelyglobe]

On 12/27/2021 at 11:22 PM, sgmaven said:

For as long as people are told to recover at home, there is always the probability for others in the household to be infected and pass it on to others before being detected as positive for COVID. This is the primary issue that is of concern.

That already happened with delta variant,  otherwise we wont be getting 3000+ cases per day. There was one report the wife was infected and waited a few days before sent to a designated place for quarantine,  in the end the husband also kena, that is only one of the case reported. 

 

As we are expecting a huge surge of imported omicron cases, since sporean have their own place, they should stay at home. The increase capacity isolation room can be used to house those foreigners who dont have a place to go to. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by lonelyglobe

[lonelyglobe]

On 12/27/2021 at 11:27 PM, sgmaven said:

If a tenant who shares a room with another tenant in an HDB flat comes down with COVID, and still told to "recover at home", then the other tenant is at high-risk of contracting COVID.

 

Now, the other tenant self-administers an ART test, and goes to work after it shows a negative. Do you think this is acceptable?

 

Endemic... They are not gonna bother, unless the hospitals cannot cope...

 

 

 

 

[Guest Wtf]

 

 

 

On 12/27/2021 at 9:43 PM, Guest Wtf said:

so zero is your acceptable number of covid deaths? Because all Covid deaths are death of a loved one for someone. 
 

So this means the deaths from increased suicide rate due to Covid restrictions don’t matter? Remember, you can’t have zero for everything… 

 

I feel sick reading this.

 

So you are now using suicide deaths to justify the re-opening of the economy? If you are really so concerned about suicide deaths, where were you when people were committing suicides even before COVID? And yet, here you are now, trying to use suicide deaths as an excuse to further your money making ventures, trying to make it sound as if you even give a damn.

 

Seriously, just how low can a piece of shit sink?

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/27/2021 at 10:27 PM, 7heaven said:

Has there been data to suggest suicide rate due to Covid restrictions has increased? 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/452-suicides-reported-in-singapore-in-2020-amid-covid-19-highest-since-2012

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/27/2021 at 11:22 PM, sgmaven said:

I am not sure where you got your suicide statistics from, although there was talk of mental health issues due to lockdowns. Anyway, I never said that we have to go through another hard lockdown, but proper ring-fencing and contact tracing need to be done. For as long as people are told to recover at home, there is always the probability for others in the household to be infected and pass it on to others before being detected as positive for COVID. This is the primary issue that is of concern.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/452-suicides-reported-in-singapore-in-2020-amid-covid-19-highest-since-2012

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/27/2021 at 11:27 PM, sgmaven said:

If a tenant who shares a room with another tenant in an HDB flat comes down with COVID, and still told to "recover at home", then the other tenant is at high-risk of contracting COVID.

 

Now, the other tenant self-administers an ART test, and goes to work after it shows a negative. Do you think this is acceptable?

how do you feel about home recovery for flu, which kills 6-800 people per year in Singapore on average? Surely all these deaths could also be avoided? 
 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/more-anxious-covid-19-deaths-flu-dengue-endemic-2251616

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/28/2021 at 2:10 AM, Guest Wtf said:

 

 

 

 

I feel sick reading this.

 

So you are now using suicide deaths to justify the re-opening of the economy? If you are really so concerned about suicide deaths, where were you when people were committing suicides even before COVID? And yet, here you are now, trying to use suicide deaths as an excuse to further your money making ventures, trying to make it sound as if you even give a damn.

 

Seriously, just how low can a piece of shit sink?

there is no point replying to you, any attention you are receiving is just making your condition worse - you need professional help. 

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/27/2021 at 11:42 PM, Nightingale said:

"We didn't have 20/20 foresight," says PM Lee.

 

https://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/docs/default-source/ips/we-did-not-have-20-20-foresight-says-pm-lee.pdf

why are you sharing an article from 2013 on a thread about Covid? What’s the point or relevance? 

[7heaven]

On 12/28/2021 at 7:33 AM, Guest Wtf said:

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/452-suicides-reported-in-singapore-in-2020-amid-covid-19-highest-since-2012

How many more deaths due to Covid in 2021 compared with 2020 in Singapore?

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/28/2021 at 8:16 AM, 7heaven said:

How many more deaths due to Covid in 2021 compared with 2020 in Singapore?

your google not working? If you want to make a point, better to just make it. 

[Guest Fuck Wtf]

On 12/28/2021 at 7:33 AM, Guest Wtf said:

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/452-suicides-reported-in-singapore-in-2020-amid-covid-19-highest-since-2012

 

Stop pretending that you even care about 10+% increase in suicide deaths from 2019 figures. Where were you when people were commiting suicides in 2019, 2018, 2017? And yet you are still using other people's deaths to futher your own agenda? That's bloody low.

 

 

 

On 12/28/2021 at 7:45 AM, Guest Wtf said:

how do you feel about home recovery for flu, which kills 6-800 people per year in Singapore on average? Surely all these deaths could also be avoided? 
 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/more-anxious-covid-19-deaths-flu-dengue-endemic-2251616

 

Do you need people to spell it out to you? The difference between influenza and COVID are well published. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2020/no-covid-19-is-not-the-flu

 

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO SOMEONE WHO INSISTS TO YOU THAT COVID-19 IS “JUST THE FLU”?

 

Since December 2019, COVID-19 has killed more people in the U.S. than influenza has in the last five years. 

 

Influenza is a significant burden on the population, but COVID-19 has had a vastly larger effect.

 

ARE PEOPLE MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO COVID-19 OR THE FLU? 

 

Many more people are susceptible to COVID-19 because there is little preexisting immunity to the virus that causes it—SARS-CoV-2. Through vaccinations and previous infections, a portion of the population has some immunity to influenza, which helps limit the number of cases we see each year.

 

There is a lot of similarity between how the two viruses are spread, but the number of susceptible people is really what allows SARS-CoV-2 to spread so easily. 

 

IF INFECTED, WHICH HAS THE HIGHER RATE OF SEVERE DISEASE AND MORTALITY? HOW MUCH HIGHER?

 

COVID-19 has a higher severe disease and mortality rate than influenza in all age groups, except perhaps children under the age of 12.

 

ARE THE POPULATIONS AT HIGHER RISK FOR SEVERE COVID-19 DISEASE THE SAME AS THE POPULATIONS AT HIGHER RISK FOR SEVERE FLU? 

 

There is some overlap. The elderly and individuals with cardiovascular disease or a high BMI have more severe disease with both infections. 

 

It looks like children and pregnant women are more susceptible to severe disease with influenza, but it’s not clear why that is.

 

On 12/28/2021 at 7:54 AM, Guest Wtf said:

why are you sharing an article from 2013 on a thread about Covid? What’s the point or relevance? 

 

So, words in 2013 don't count anymore? How about words in 2020 just one year ago? https://www.straitstimes.com/politics/singapore-ge2020-covid-19-crisis-should-be-focus-of-all-parties-says-chun-sing-at-half-time

 

And yet one year later, focus was on CECA debate and COP proceedings. And the way to focus on COVID crisis now is ...wait, what "crisis"? It's just the "flu"?

 

 

On 12/28/2021 at 7:52 AM, Guest Wtf said:

there is no point replying to you, any attention you are receiving is just making your condition worse - you need professional help. 

 

Nobody asked you to reply to anyone. All you need to do as a piece of shit is to sink to the bottom of the ocean quietly.

[jlone]

There are some here working or spying for the moh as well as for the miw.

So whatever is going against them, surely someone will not agree and these will never end.

[mate69]

Endemic... They are not gonna bother, unless the hospitals cannot cope...

 

Yes ^ this is the govt mentality

Economy first. Must open. Must keep economy churning, must keep people flow, must keep economic engine humming

it's all about $$$$$$$$$

govt thinking is = u die, your own problem. Economy first. Always has been  always will be

[7heaven]

On 12/28/2021 at 8:29 AM, Guest Wtf said:

your google not working? If you want to make a point, better to just make it. 

Believe u already know the point I m making. 
 

There is always a time for everything. Opening now is not the best time especially with Omicron widely circulating. Don’t believe many are suggesting strict lockdowns indefinitely. For a start, we can still impose WFH if possible to ease the crowd using public transport, reduce the VTL quota further, limit number of people for mass events, more checks and enforcement of safe distancing measures at at malls, F&B and other high crowd areas. 
 

On VTL entries, all tests must be conducted by trained professionals and not self-test. For people in Singapore, we cannot send wrong message that it is fine to travel overseas for leisure when Covid cases are surging in some of the countries we have VTL with. Those with existing VTL leisure travels would do well to cancel or postpone their trip and not go ahead still just because they have paid for it. 

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/28/2021 at 1:17 PM, 7heaven said:

Believe u already know the point I m making. 
 

There is always a time for everything. Opening now is not the best time especially with Omicron widely circulating. Don’t believe many are suggesting strict lockdowns indefinitely. For a start, we can still impose WFH if possible to ease the crowd using public transport, reduce the VTL quota further, limit number of people for mass events, more checks and enforcement of safe distancing measures at at malls, F&B and other high crowd areas. 
 

On VTL entries, all tests must be conducted by trained professionals and not self-test. For people in Singapore, we cannot send wrong message that it is fine to travel overseas for leisure when Covid cases are surging in some of the countries we have VTL with. Those with existing VTL leisure travels would do well to cancel or postpone their trip and not go ahead still just because they have paid for it. 

so when will be the best time and which criteria need to be filled? And after this best time and then opening up, what will you do when a new variant then arises or cases start to increase again beyond whatever level you are comfortable with? 
 

Based on all the comments on this thread, nobody here seems to be able to propose any better solution than endemic based on where we are now in the pandemic, tbh. It is easy to complain but decisions have to be made. And public health decisions have to be made balancing a number of factors which include, yes, freedom for people to live and having a viable economy - I find it incredible that people don’t seem to understand this and think zero covid strategies wouldn’t also have damaging long term effects on public health. 

[lonelyglobe]

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/cloth-masks-may-not-be-enough-in-omicron-fight-expert-says

 

Can still see many wearing cloth mask that was given to them,  that is as good as wearing  thongs on their face, nice but no protection.

 

Just yesterday,  pass by one barber shop,  both the barber and customer are mask free, really steady pun pi pi. Step into any hawker centre or coffee shop, u can spot many mask free stallholders, not to mention mask free customer order 1 coffee and sit there one whole afternoon. It is simply stupid to barricade hawker centre like a prison when you have all these nonsense going on. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by lonelyglobe

[sgmaven]

On 12/28/2021 at 7:45 AM, Guest Wtf said:

how do you feel about home recovery for flu, which kills 6-800 people per year in Singapore on average? Surely all these deaths could also be avoided? 
 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/more-anxious-covid-19-deaths-flu-dengue-endemic-2251616

If you really think COVID is now like the flu, then why bother with masks and TraceTogether? We should then do away with all restrictions!

 

As for home recovery from flu, that is because most people do have immunity against flu, since it has been circulating since a long while ago. COVID is very different. And if you really look at those who die of complications due to flu, you would hardly find anyone who is young.

 

As for dengue, most importantly, it is not spread from person to person, but via mosquitoes. However, the government has been trying hard to eradicate mosquitoes with their "Mossie Wipeout" campaigns. They also have been trying to develop effective vaccines against dengue.

Edited December 28, 2021 by sgmaven

[7heaven]

On 12/28/2021 at 1:49 PM, Guest Wtf said:

so when will be the best time and which criteria need to be filled? And after this best time and then opening up, what will you do when a new variant then arises or cases start to increase again beyond whatever level you are comfortable with? 
 

Based on all the comments on this thread, nobody here seems to be able to propose any better solution than endemic based on where we are now in the pandemic, tbh. It is easy to complain but decisions have to be made. And public health decisions have to be made balancing a number of factors which include, yes, freedom for people to live and having a viable economy - I find it incredible that people don’t seem to understand this and think zero covid strategies wouldn’t also have damaging long term effects on public health. 

Based on the comments here, there is a common consensus that treating the current situation as endemic is not a good solution at all. 
 

Those here against opening up so soon find it incredible that people don’t seem to understand opening up now with Omicron spreading in many countries and even in Singapore will undo all the good work and sacrifices the people in Singapore have made so far. 
 

As it is now, the public transport is already so crowded, likewise for malls, F&B and mass events locations. With 50% wfh, the public transport will even see more people out and about and there are 2 more big public holidays coming soon.
 

It must be recognised people don’t complain for the sake of complaining. They are doing so for genuine concerns. 

[mate69]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-omicron-singapore-prepare-next-wave-lawrence-wong-2402806

 

Singapore has "done whatever it can" to prepare for next COVID-19 wave amid global Omicron spread: Lawrence Wong

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/28/2021 at 4:55 PM, 7heaven said:

Based on the comments here, there is a common consensus that treating the current situation as endemic is not a good solution at all. 
 

Those here against opening up so soon find it incredible that people don’t seem to understand opening up now with Omicron spreading in many countries and even in Singapore will undo all the good work and sacrifices the people in Singapore have made so far. 
 

As it is now, the public transport is already so crowded, likewise for malls, F&B and mass events locations. With 50% wfh, the public transport will even see more people out and about and there are 2 more big public holidays coming soon.
 

It must be recognised people don’t complain for the sake of complaining. They are doing so for genuine concerns. 

I understand what you are saying and the concerns but my point is: when will be a good time to open up? Surely whenever you open up, there will be more cases and the sacrifices and good work will be undone? The point is that covid is now endemic whether we treat it that way or not and whether we like it or not, and people getting infected with covid is going to be a fact of life and we have vaccines to minimise serious illnesses and death for most people who get infected. So if not opening up step by step now, then when? 

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/28/2021 at 4:51 PM, sgmaven said:

If you really think COVID is now like the flu, then why bother with masks and TraceTogether? We should then do away with all restrictions!

 

As for home recovery from flu, that is because most people do have immunity against flu, since it has been circulating since a long while ago. COVID is very different. And if you really look at those who die of complications due to flu, you would hardly find anyone who is young.

 

As for dengue, most importantly, it is not spread from person to person, but via mosquitoes. However, the government has been trying hard to eradicate mosquitoes with their "Mossie Wipeout" campaigns. They also have been trying to develop effective vaccines against dengue.

my point is not that covid is like the flu, it is that with effective vaccines, covid has also become similar to the flu in terms of clinical outcomes, so it also makes sense to now move towards treating it the same way. 
 

I am also trying to explain that the people who cry over every covid death have been silent over the 6-800 people who die every year from flu. Why did they not call for masks and lockdowns then to protect the most vulnerable from the flu? These are mostly the same cohort as the ones who are dying of covid and their lives could have similarly been saved with societal restrictions. 

[7heaven]

On 12/28/2021 at 5:21 PM, Guest Wtf said:

I understand what you are saying and the concerns but my point is: when will be a good time to open up? Surely whenever you open up, there will be more cases and the sacrifices and good work will be undone? The point is that covid is now endemic whether we treat it that way or not and whether we like it or not, and people getting infected with covid is going to be a fact of life and we have vaccines to minimise serious illnesses and death for most people who get infected. So if not opening up step by step now, then when? 

Nobody can say when is the precise or estimated time to open up. What we can say objectively is definitely not now, at least not the current level of restrictions or lack of restrictions in view of Omicron. And it is not the right time now to consider Covid as endemic. 
 

We should not focus our attention to determine when it is a good time to open up because open up can mean different things to different people. Rather, we should calibrate according to the situation at the moment and be prompt to reverse course. A comfortable level of openness now is to limit the crowd using public transportation, malls, F&B and mass events.  Testing has to be stepped up for VTL entries too. 
 

Next, right when Omicron first appeared and started spreading, we happened to start VTL land. The message of opening up VTL land here right when other countries are closing their borders to prevent Omicron spread is rather ironic, and don’t appear sound. This is just 1 glaring example that we appear too rush to open up. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by 7heaven
z

[lonelyglobe]

On 12/28/2021 at 6:01 PM, 7heaven said:

Next, right when Omicron first appeared and started spreading, we happened to start VTL land. The message of opening up VTL land here right when other countries are closing their borders to prevent Omicron spread is rather ironic, and don’t appear sound. This is just 1 glaring example that we appear too rush to open up. 

Absolutely, we should learnt from HK and Taiwan, both countries have achieved close to 70% vaccination rate but still dare not to open up yet. They are able to block omicron with their boarder control and strict  quarantine policy. Here,  we open up very big and very fast, inviting omicron to break into the community easily.

 

There is no such thing as letting omicron case to recover at home,  it will just be a repeat of the delta mess. All these explain how we got 650 cases with 134 local cases while both TW and HK recorded less than 50 cases with 0 and 1 community infection respectively.

 

By the way, i believe our omicron cases are the highest in Asia as of now.

Edited December 28, 2021 by lonelyglobe

[lonelyglobe]

On 12/28/2021 at 5:05 PM, mate69 said:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-omicron-singapore-prepare-next-wave-lawrence-wong-2402806

 

Singapore has "done whatever it can" to prepare for next COVID-19 wave amid global Omicron spread: Lawrence Wong

They have done all they can to prepare for the huge surge but they have not done all they can to prevent or delay the onset of omicron. That is a big difference. 

 

On second thought,  as more get infected, they would have develop antibodies after their recovery and together with high vaccination rate, SG maybe the first country in the world to beat covid. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by lonelyglobe

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/28/2021 at 6:01 PM, 7heaven said:

Nobody can say when is the precise or estimated time to open up. What we can say objectively is definitely not now, at least not the current level of restrictions or lack of restrictions in view of Omicron. And it is not the right time now to consider Covid as endemic. 
 

We should not focus our attention to determine when it is a good time to open up because open up can mean different things to different people. Rather, we should calibrate according to the situation at the moment and be prompt to reverse course. A comfortable level of openness now is to limit the crowd using public transportation, malls, F&B and mass events.  Testing has to be stepped up for VTL entries too. 
 

Next, right when Omicron first appeared and started spreading, we happened to start VTL land. The message of opening up VTL land here right when other countries are closing their borders to prevent Omicron spread is rather ironic, and don’t appear sound. This is just 1 glaring example that we appear too rush to open up. 

Ok. Most people here who talk as if Singapore has opened up seem not to see that Singapore is already still very restricted compared to most other countries globally and yet they still want more restrictions. But nobody here can answer the question: what number of cases do you accept? What case number would make you lockdown, what case number to open up? Bearing in mind that covid is not going anywhere, how fast will you accept it spreading in Singapore, in a population that is highly vaccinated and where around 98% of infecarioj have mild or no symptoms?
 

Because it’s going to spread - either way, it’s just a matter of time. And it will also spread in Taiwan and Hong Kong. 

[sgmaven]

COVID is not going anywhere. Why? Because people fail to get vaccinated/boosted, and fail to observe proper protocols to mitigate the risks of getting infected.

 

Singapore is restrictive? On paper perhaps, but so many people are still circumventing rules that are there to keep them safe. Meanwhile, lots of countries in Europe are tightening up their restrictions in view of the Omicron variant (due to the surge in the cases), we seem to be loosening things up. Obviously, the government thinks that our people are far more unaffected by the Omicron variant than those in Europe.

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/28/2021 at 8:15 PM, sgmaven said:

COVID is not going anywhere. Why? Because people fail to get vaccinated/boosted, and fail to observe proper protocols to mitigate the risks of getting infected.

 

Singapore is restrictive? On paper perhaps, but so many people are still circumventing rules that are there to keep them safe. Meanwhile, lots of countries in Europe are tightening up their restrictions in view of the Omicron variant (due to the surge in the cases), we seem to be loosening things up. Obviously, the government thinks that our people are far more unaffected by the Omicron variant than those in Europe.

so what is your answer on at which case number we tighten measures and at which case number we reduce? Nobody here seems to want to to say what they will accept, they instead just want to complain about people and any decisions that actually are taken. 

[sgmaven]

What I want is more testing, and more segregation of the infected. I am not proposing a lockdown, but that infected get properly quarantined, and their household members be asked to report for PCR testing.

[7heaven]

On 12/28/2021 at 7:02 PM, Guest Wtf said:

Ok. Most people here who talk as if Singapore has opened up seem not to see that Singapore is already still very restricted compared to most other countries globally and yet they still want more restrictions. But nobody here can answer the question: what number of cases do you accept? What case number would make you lockdown, what case number to open up? Bearing in mind that covid is not going anywhere, how fast will you accept it spreading in Singapore, in a population that is highly vaccinated and where around 98% of infecarioj have mild or no symptoms?
 

Because it’s going to spread - either way, it’s just a matter of time. And it will also spread in Taiwan and Hong Kong. 

Actually, we should not compare ourselves with other countries because our population density is one of the highest in the world. Being so densely populated, the risk of transmission is not low. We don’t want more restrictions; it is the fact that the loosening of restrictions were too quick in coming in view of the onset of Omicron and perhaps Delta earlier this year. 
 

Most people here talk about opening up in Singapore seem not to realise how crowded our public transport is every day and even more so during weekends and public holidays right now. With the impending 50% WFH in next week, public transport will even be more crowded. 
 

Nobody here seems to be able to answer the question: why the urgency to open up when there is Omicron now? Bearing in mind that the efficacy of vaccines will deteriorate with time, and boosters are still needed and it takes months for a significant portion of the population to get the booster shots. 
 

If it is going to spread, why do we open up to facilitate the spread instead of doing our best to prevent the spread? It’s like saying since all of us are going to die 1 day, why not engage in reckless and dangerous activities since death is unavoidable? Doesn’t make sense. Lol.

Edited December 28, 2021 by 7heaven
v

[lonelyglobe]

No problem,  dont need to argue, dont need to ask questions, already plan for everyone as usual. 

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/makes-sense-to-live-with-omicron-and-treat-it-as-no-different-from-other-covid-19-variants-experts

 

It should also make sense to remove all barricades, dont need to wear mask,  no more trace together, dont need social distancing, can have 10 pax per table, no maximum limit, no more WFH, bring back the night life,  karaoke, sauna and steam, go JB as and when we like etc.

 

If everyone is going to get it either with or without restrictions, then might as well make people a bit happier, cannot be endemic at the border and pandemic inside, doesnt make sense at all. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by lonelyglobe

[auscent]

The curveballs are tough to catch up with. I just pray for resilience to get through it all.

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/28/2021 at 9:26 PM, sgmaven said:

What I want is more testing, and more segregation of the infected. I am not proposing a lockdown, but that infected get properly quarantined, and their household members be asked to report for PCR testing.

 

On 12/28/2021 at 10:28 PM, 7heaven said:

Actually, we should not compare ourselves with other countries because our population density is one of the highest in the world. Being so densely populated, the risk of transmission is not low. We don’t want more restrictions; it is the fact that the loosening of restrictions were too quick in coming in view of the onset of Omicron and perhaps Delta earlier this year. 
 

Most people here talk about opening up in Singapore seem not to realise how crowded our public transport is every day and even more so during weekends and public holidays right now. With the impending 50% WFH in next week, public transport will even be more crowded. 
 

Nobody here seems to be able to answer the question: why the urgency to open up when there is Omicron now? Bearing in mind that the efficacy of vaccines will deteriorate with time, and boosters are still needed and it takes months for a significant portion of the population to get the booster shots. 
 

If it is going to spread, why do we open up to facilitate the spread instead of doing our best to prevent the spread? It’s like saying since all of us are going to die 1 day, why not engage in reckless and dangerous activities since death is unavoidable? Doesn’t make sense. Lol.

why are you both so unwilling to say what number of cases and deaths is acceptable for you for easing or increasing of restrictions? It’s a very simple question. 

[Guest Wtf]

On 12/29/2021 at 5:47 AM, Guest Wtf said:

 

why are you both so unwilling to say what number of cases and deaths is acceptable for you for easing or increasing of restrictions? It’s a very simple question. 

anyway, all this back and forth is going nowhere - time will tell what the right approach was but hopefully the 🐢 voices are listened to a bit less in 2022. 

[7heaven]

On 12/29/2021 at 5:47 AM, Guest Wtf said:

 

why are you both so unwilling to say what number of cases and deaths is acceptable for you for easing or increasing of restrictions? It’s a very simple question. 

why are you so unwilling to explain the urgency to ease the restrictions when Omicron is now circulating so quickly in so many countries? It’s not a difficult question. 

[lonelyglobe]

On 12/28/2021 at 11:36 PM, auscent said:

The curveballs are tough to catch up with. I just pray for resilience to get through it all.

Definitely, as of 28 dec, total omicron at 784, 610 imported and 174 community. VTL is still going strong for those who have already purchased their ticket, 3000, 5000 or even more,  we dont know and those who know wont tell us, as usual. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by lonelyglobe

[jlone]

On 12/29/2021 at 11:54 AM, lonelyglobe said:

Definitely, as of 28 dec, total omicron at 784, 610 imported and 174 community. VTL is still going strong for those who have already purchased their ticket, 3000, 5000 or even more,  we dont know and those who know wont tell us, as usual. 

$$$$ come first ! 

[mate69]

On 12/29/2021 at 12:57 AM, jlone said:

$$$$ come first ! 

 

Yes. 

This has always been the operative manual of the government

Try to make more $$$$ and also at the same time, try to preserve jobs and livelihoods

It's a tough call tbh and you cannot possibly please everyone and all stakeholders

[Guest Guest]

On 12/29/2021 at 4:39 PM, mate69 said:

 

Yes. 

This has always been the operative manual of the government

Try to make more $$$$ and also at the same time, try to preserve jobs and livelihoods

It's a tough call tbh and you cannot possibly please everyone and all stakeholders

It's not a tough call at all, the decision makers should think about safety of people. Govt has a lot monies in reserves and this is the time to use it.

[sgmaven]

On 12/30/2021 at 8:33 PM, Guest Guest said:

It's not a tough call at all, the decision makers should think about safety of people. Govt has a lot monies in reserves and this is the time to use it.

The decision is far more complicated than that... Part of the problem is that the some of the people are not responding to the advice of the government. They are not wearing masks, or not wearing them properly; and also not practicing social distancing. Others are not getting the vaccinations, which are FOC to everyone.

 

Just last night, I saw a group of people, 8 in total, mingling at the foot of a HDB block, all without masks on. This is in clear contravention of the rules set by the government.

Also, there are those who choose to believe in fake news, than to take COVID seriously and get the required vaccinations.

 

If these people should fall sick, should we subsidise their medical care with our public monies?

[7heaven]

On 12/30/2021 at 9:30 PM, sgmaven said:

The decision is far more complicated than that... Part of the problem is that the some of the people are not responding to the advice of the government. They are not wearing masks, or not wearing them properly; and also not practicing social distancing. Others are not getting the vaccinations, which are FOC to everyone.

 

Just last night, I saw a group of people, 8 in total, mingling at the foot of a HDB block, all without masks on. This is in clear contravention of the rules set by the government.

Also, there are those who choose to believe in fake news, than to take COVID seriously and get the required vaccinations.

 

If these people should fall sick, should we subsidise their medical care with our public monies?

The question about whether to subsidise medical care if unvaccinated people were to fall sick with Covid and seek medical care is far more complicated and potentially controversial. 
 

When people with heart diseases or are overweight who continue to eat unhealthy food, do we deny them subsidies to medical care? For smokers who have lung diseases continue to smoke while seeking medical treatment, so we deny them subsidies to medical care? 
 

For people who race and speed in public roads and meet with accidents, do we deny them subsidies to medical care? 

[lonelyglobe]

On 12/30/2021 at 9:30 PM, sgmaven said:

If these people should fall sick, should we subsidise their medical care with our public monies?

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-unvaccinated-choice-pay-own-medical-bills-moh-2298601

[lonelyglobe]

https://mothership.sg/2021/12/brunei-suspends-non-essential-travel/

 

This is what a responsible government will do for their country, to prevent as much as possible while preparing the population for it and not simply focus on the latter.

[sgmaven]

On 12/30/2021 at 10:11 PM, 7heaven said:

The question about whether to subsidise medical care if unvaccinated people were to fall sick with Covid and seek medical care is far more complicated and potentially controversial.

That is why I say that the problem is more complicated than that...

[sgmaven]

On 12/30/2021 at 10:27 PM, lonelyglobe said:

https://mothership.sg/2021/12/brunei-suspends-non-essential-travel/

 

This is what a responsible government will do for their country, to prevent as much as possible while preparing the population for it and not simply focus on the latter.

Well, Brunei is run by a single person, the Sultan. The government in Singapore still needs to worry about elections and hence, public sentiment.

[sgmaven]

Like it or not, there are many Singaporeans who do not understand (or want to understand) the risks of COVID and their implications. Hence, they will gripe with the government whenever there are new restrictions, and will try to circumvent these restrictions best as they can. They will also vote against the PAP, when the government introduces restrictions.

[lonelyglobe]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:04 AM, sgmaven said:

Well, Brunei is run by a single person, the Sultan. The government in Singapore still needs to worry about elections and hence, public sentiment.

True for brunei but lets look at taiwan. Do they have to worry about election especially with a 2 party system? Do they have to worry about economic even though they have a domestic market? Is just a question if a country want to put people above economy or vice versa.  

 

The main thing is they practice pandemic approach at the border so they could have endemic life,  tonight their countdown concert will still be staged, so are the famous  fireworks display at 101. Not to mention their night life are as vibrant as before covid. 

 

No govt can manage both economy and a normal life,  in the west we see endemic border and endemic living, in taiwan, HK,  we see pandemic border and endemic living but here,  we see endemic border and pandemic living. 

[sgmaven]

Well, Singapore chose the "endemic" approach, partly I think, after many of the Western nations took that approach. To me, it was admitting defeat against the virus, and allowing it to fester and mutate. Only time will tell whether a new deadlier mutation will occur, we just do not know.

 

On one side, you have the US and the EU who have taken the "endemic" approach, so you know that the global pandemic is unlikely to end, even if Singapore were to take the "pandemic" approach. However, that also means exposing more people in Singapore to the virus. I doubt if even the government know if this is the right approach, but they do not want to sacrifice the economy.

 

Meanwhile, many people don't seem to understand that the opening up is so that jobs and businesses can be saved. It does not mean that there is no danger. Just that the government is trying to balance the economy with the risk of a large-scale outbreak.

[jlone]

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/non-vtl-travellers-singapore-no-need-covid-test-125050033.html

 

There are over 900 cases of omicron now in sg of which 600 over cases were thru the vtl according to report.

Edited December 31, 2021 by jlone