Covid Situation in SG discussion (compiled)

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/28/2022 at 3:20 PM, singalion said:

 

 Cross check with MOM?

 

The MOH data stops at 31 Dec 2021. there is no update for Omicron.

The point was Omicron.

 

The MOH data does not even detail what they understand as "population".

It the explanation it says:

About Singapore's COVID-19 Vaccination Programme

The COVID-19 vaccination programme protects Singaporeans against COVID-19, as well as businesses and jobs through the progressive re-opening of Singapore.

 

Are they only counting the 91 % for Singaporeans?

 

 

Just to add:

You are the one here pretending as if Omicron can be neglected.

Take a look at US and Europe and you will see whether Omicron is just mild and does not cause death.

 

It is a threat to non vaccinated people and in particular to elderly or people above 60 years.

Don't play down any risks for these groups.

 

There have been 113 deaths in Singapore from Covid since 1 Dec 2021.

 

(By the way I am not saying or promoting any stricter measures or a lockdown, but just pointing to the fact that you cannot describe Omicron just as a mild virus. )

 

 

 

 

moh, not mom. Typo.

 

How did the calculation work out? 

[And then]

On 1/28/2022 at 6:20 PM, singalion said:

 

There have been 113 deaths in Singapore from Covid since 1 Dec 2021.

 

(By the way I am not saying or promoting any stricter measures or a lockdown, but just pointing to the fact that you cannot describe Omicron just as a mild virus. )

 

 

Not to make light of any deaths, but to give a bit of perspective, around 2000 people die in Singapore each and every month.

 

[singalion]

In my earlier post (below) was an error due to the figure not being a percentage presentation but the cases on a 100,000 count as it indicated the average weekly incidence.

 

On 1/27/2022 at 12:31 PM, singalion said:

Let's say 90% are vaccinated.

Singapore has 5.6 mil residents.

That makes 560,000 unvaccinated people.

Official numbers reported from Singapore to certain institutions says 2 doses vaccinated is at 83% (booster at 52%). Then the unvaccinated people are at around 1 million.

 

I translated the figures on the residence numbers to Singapore:

 

On the basis of the 100,000 representation of 9.7, the monthly death toll by Omicron for unvaccinated people in Singapore would be 432.

 

On the basis of a 100,000 representation of 0.5 the monthly death toll by Omicron for vaccinated people in Singapore would result in  24 deaths per month.

 

I don't think this is negligible.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by singalion

[Guest Guest]

On 1/27/2022 at 9:45 AM, Guest Wtf said:

Your mixing up of everything and the fact that you think that 0.3% is somehow a big risk shows the total futility of thinking it possible to have any kind of intelligent discussion with you.
 

Just keep posting your little memes and whatever else. 

 

Yes, it is indeed totally futile for you to have any kind of "intelligent" discussion on the trivialization of human life with anyone here. But it's OK. You can go ahead have such "intelligent" discussion with Satan himself when you next see him. And with CNY coming, I would guess you will like to have such fruitful discussion with him soon, won't you? 

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/28/2022 at 5:56 PM, singalion said:

In my earlier post (below) was an error due to the figure not being a percentage presentation but the cases on a 100,000 count as it indicated the average weekly incidence.

 

 

I translated the figures on the residence numbers to Singapore:

 

On the basis of the 100,000 representation of 9.7, the monthly death toll by Omicron for unvaccinated people in Singapore would be 432.

 

On the basis of a 100,000 representation of 0.5 the monthly death toll by Omicron for vaccinated people in Singapore would result in  24 deaths per month.

 

I don't think this is negligible.

 

 

how did you get to 432? 
 

and how does your maths handle the fact that at the moment 99.7% of cases in Singapore are mild or have no symptoms? 

[Steve5380]

On 1/26/2022 at 4:22 AM, Guest Guest said:

This is why we need a lockdown, hard to stay home when need to go to work in crowded trains and buses

 

Aren't you fully vaccinated?  Two shots plus the booster?   Aren't you wearing the N-95 masks provided by your government?   If so, your risk is not so great.

 

Think of all the healthcare workers attending covid patients. There must be a lot of covid floating around at their workplace.  Yet they feel somewhat secure being vaccinated and wearing protective masks. 

 

Don't the people in your trains and buses have to wear a mask?  Then your risk is further reduced since a) low probability that there is someone near you that has covid, and b) this person has a mask on that prevents him or her from releasing any covid. 

 

Giving everyone good protective masks and making its use mandatory,  together with a mandate to the whole population to be vaccinated, should be much, much less expensive than the economic cost of a shutdown.

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/28/2022 at 5:56 PM, singalion said:

In my earlier post (below) was an error due to the figure not being a percentage presentation but the cases on a 100,000 count as it indicated the average weekly incidence.

 

 

I translated the figures on the residence numbers to Singapore:

 

On the basis of the 100,000 representation of 9.7, the monthly death toll by Omicron for unvaccinated people in Singapore would be 432.

 

On the basis of a 100,000 representation of 0.5 the monthly death toll by Omicron for vaccinated people in Singapore would result in  24 deaths per month.

 

I don't think this is negligible.

 

 

seriously, your calculations are way off - please show how you have arrived at any of the figures you claim, and also how/why you then claim these as monthly deaths. In the last twenty four hours, you have gone from claiming 108,000 deaths to 432 and your method of calculating is still completely unclear. 
 

Do people die of Covid? Yes. Do people die of omicron? Yes. Is omicron milder? Yes, it seems if of from all evidence so far. Is a morality rate of something like 0.1% an acceptable level to live with? I would say yes, you can disagree. How many people die of flu every year? Around 6-800 in Singapore.  Which of these facts are reasons to treat Covid any different to any other endemic virus and to lockdown a country, especially in a population that has an incredibly high vaccination rate?  

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/28/2022 at 6:55 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

Yes, it is indeed totally futile for you to have any kind of "intelligent" discussion on the trivialization of human life with anyone here. But it's OK. You can go ahead have such "intelligent" discussion with Satan himself when you next see him. And with CNY coming, I would guess you will like to have such fruitful discussion with him soon, won't you? 

satan now is it? 🤦 

 

who or what is next? Godzilla? Sauron? Let me know… 

[Steve5380]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:55 AM, Guest Guest said:

 

Yes, it is indeed totally futile for you to have any kind of "intelligent" discussion on the trivialization of human life with anyone here. But it's OK. You can go ahead have such "intelligent" discussion with Satan himself when you next see him. And with CNY coming, I would guess you will like to have such fruitful discussion with him soon, won't you? 

 

Don't worry.

 

The rules of BW don't include the mandate that discussions should be "intelligent".   Far from it... 

 

Satan may be laughing at our discussions here, since they cannot change the pandemic one bit.

Let's personally take all the precautions, and stay safe.   

[singalion]

On 1/28/2022 at 8:39 PM, Guest Wtf said:

how did you get to 432? 
 

and how does your maths handle the fact that at the moment 99.7% of cases in Singapore are mild or have no symptoms? 

 

I gave an explanation in my earlier post. 

 

Please learn to read posts properly and completely. 

 

As I already explained the numbers in Table 1 from CDC represent a 7 day incidence of death for unvaccinated. 

 

The number is a calculation only for the unvaccinated and not the total population of Singapore. 

 

The 99.7% is a 28 day count from MOH with the growing daily infections that number might change. 

 

Your 91% of vaccination was the wrong percentage as per MOH the 2nd dose vaccination rate is only 88%. 

 

Quote:

88% of total population

Completed full regimen

As of 27 January 2022, 88% of our population has completed their full regimen/ received two doses of COVID-19 vaccines.

  

[Guest Bak Teh Teh]

On 1/28/2022 at 6:55 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

Yes, it is indeed totally futile for you to have any kind of "intelligent" discussion on the trivialization of human life with anyone here. But it's OK. You can go ahead have such "intelligent" discussion with Satan himself when you next see him. And with CNY coming, I would guess you will like to have such fruitful discussion with him soon, won't you? 

Yes, we should have stricter border controls and more active enforcement at those crowded places such as coffee shops, restaurants, Hawker centres and offices. For people entering Singapore, the best approach is still a few days of quarantine in approved locations and tests done by professionals. We should not be complacent now. 

[singalion]

On 1/28/2022 at 11:33 PM, Guest Wtf said:

Do people die of Covid? Yes. Do people die of omicron? Yes. Is omicron milder? Yes, it seems if of from all evidence so far. Is a morality rate of something like 0.1% an acceptable level to live with? I would say yes, you can disagree. How many people die of flu every year? Around 6-800 in Singapore.  Which of these facts are reasons to treat Covid any different to any other endemic virus and to lockdown a country, especially in a population that has an incredibly high vaccination rate?  

 

Not sure where you received  your figures. 

 

According to the last local research, influenza and pneunomia deaths average at 116 per year!

 

Influenza-associated Deaths in Tropical Singapore

Angela Chow, Stefan Ma, [...], and Suok Kai Chew

 

[singalion]

On 1/28/2022 at 11:33 PM, Guest Wtf said:

Do people die of Covid? Yes. Do people die of omicron? Yes. Is omicron milder? Yes, it seems if of from all evidence so far. Is a morality rate of something like 0.1% an acceptable level to live with? I would say yes, you can disagree. How many people die of flu every year? Around 6-800 in Singapore.  Which

 

Comparing flu with Omicron or Delta is inappropriate if not irresponsible. 

 

Omicron is still a serious risk for unvaccinated people or such with medical conditions. 

 

Would goverments  recommend booster vaccinations if Omicron is harmless?

 

Please stay grounded. 

 

 

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/29/2022 at 1:08 AM, singalion said:

 

Not sure where you received  your figures. 

 

According to the last local research, influenza and pneunomia deaths average at 116 per year!

 

Influenza-associated Deaths in Tropical Singapore

Angela Chow, Stefan Ma, [...], and Suok Kai Chew

 

Can you not post links properly? Btw, the study you quote study here is from 2006…

 

here says around 800 per year:

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/singapore-prepares-long-term-life-death-with-covid-19-2021-08-17/

 

here says 6-800

 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/more-anxious-covid-19-deaths-flu-dengue-endemic-2251616

 

 

 

 

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/29/2022 at 12:59 AM, singalion said:

 

I gave an explanation in my earlier post. 

 

Please learn to read posts properly and completely. 

 

As I already explained the numbers in Table 1 from CDC represent a 7 day incidence of death for unvaccinated. 

 

The number is a calculation only for the unvaccinated and not the total population of Singapore. 

 

The 99.7% is a 28 day count from MOH with the growing daily infections that number might change. 

 

Your 91% of vaccination was the wrong percentage as per MOH the 2nd dose vaccination rate is only 88%. 

 

Quote:

88% of total population

Completed full regimen

As of 27 January 2022, 88% of our population has completed their full regimen/ received two doses of COVID-19 vaccines.

  

again, you are mixing apples and oranges. You choose to use the unvaccinated figure of total population, which includes a significant number of children who cannot be vaccinated, and then use that data to calculate with a rate that considers only over 18s. Does the fact your calculation went from 108,000 deaths to 432 deaths tell you that you might not be great at this? You also haven’t explained how you have decided this 432 would be deaths per month? If you want to make outlandish points, just show the actual numbers you used, it’s quite simple. 
 

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/29/2022 at 1:12 AM, singalion said:

 

Comparing flu with Omicron or Delta is inappropriate if not irresponsible. 

 

Omicron is still a serious risk for unvaccinated people or such with medical conditions. 

 

Would goverments  recommend booster vaccinations if Omicron is harmless?

 

Please stay grounded. 

 

 

Oh, and nowhere have I claimed omicron is ‘harmless’, please read the comments properly.
 

I also did not say that catching covid is like catching the flu; I pointed out the number of deaths per year that people were previously able to accept for flu - without any calls for societal restrictions - and drawing a comparison with the hysteria from some people who seem to now find any covid death unacceptable. 

[singalion]

On 1/29/2022 at 7:31 AM, Guest Wtf said:

again, you are mixing apples and oranges. You choose to use the unvaccinated figure of total population, which includes a significant number of children who cannot be vaccinated, and then use that data to calculate with a rate that considers only over 18s. Does the fact your calculation went from 108,000 deaths to 432 deaths tell you that you might not be great at this? You also haven’t explained how you have decided this 432 would be deaths per month? If you want to make outlandish points, just show the actual numbers you used, it’s quite simple. 
 

 

 

 

You just intend to disqualify my post.

 

I already explained that I misread the 9.7 reference incidence number as a percentage.

I corrected my numbers in my original post. (Refer to my initial post)

If the incidence number is 9.7 for 100,000 in 7 days, what would it be for one month?

Then what if you do a calculation for the amount of unvaccinated residents of Singapore???

 

Your harping on under 18s is futile (by the way you may have not noted that Singapore already started vaccinations for <Banned Words> year old persons!)

https://www.gov.sg › article › updates-to-singapores-va...

Commencement of COVID-19 Vaccination for 5 to 11-Year-Olds

15 Dec 2021

 

You will never derive at any conclusive or final number.

 

It is was a calculation to make clear that the amount of deaths is not negligible .

Is it different if the number were 200?

For Singapore it is already a non negligible amount of deaths by Omicron.

 

Further, you repeated claim that Omicron is like a flu is misleading.

The deaths from influenza per year is surely much less than the deaths by Covid. (Even the incidence rate per 100,000).

Which means more people are still dying from Covid than from influenza per year.

 

As to the death by influenza study, I prefer to refer to numbers of a properly done clinical research instead of some estimates mentioned in some article. This was the last clinical research numbers I found for Singapore.

 

Actually, I have not much mood to respond to your queries, because most of your posts don't contain much evidence of your content at all, while I make efforts in substantiating my points and you just brush off any people at BW who contradict your narrative.

 

The number of 99.7 is already flawed as this just reflects one month with Omicron infections or less (as per MOH's website). Anybody with common sense would now that such numbers are not representative for any comparision of Omicron with flu or other Covid variants.

Second you totally leave out the long term Covid medical complications in your post painting Omicron as harmless.

 

As I opined before: Omicron is not harmless and is still a serious risk to unvaccinated people or such with underlying medical conditions.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/29/2022 at 3:48 PM, singalion said:

 

 

 

You just intend to disqualify my post.

 

I already explained that I misread the 9.7 reference incidence number as a percentage.

I corrected my numbers in my original post. (Refer to my initial post)

If the incidence number is 9.7 for 100,000 in 7 days, what would it be for one month?

Then what if you do a calculation for the amount of unvaccinated residents of Singapore???

 

Your harping on under 18s is futile (by the way you may have not noted that Singapore already started vaccinations for <Banned Words> year old persons!)

https://www.gov.sg › article › updates-to-singapores-va...

Commencement of COVID-19 Vaccination for 5 to 11-Year-Olds

15 Dec 2021

 

You will never derive at any conclusive or final number.

 

It is was a calculation to make clear that the amount of deaths is not negligible .

Is it different if the number were 200?

For Singapore it is already a non negligible amount of deaths by Omicron.

 

Further, you repeated claim that Omicron is like a flu is misleading.

The deaths from influenza per year is surely much less than the deaths by Covid. (Even the incidence rate per 100,000).

Which means more people are still dying from Covid than from influenza per year.

 

As to the death by influenza study, I prefer to refer to numbers of a properly done clinical research instead of some estimates mentioned in some article. This was the last clinical research numbers I found for Singapore.

 

Actually, I have not much mood to respond to your queries, because most of your posts don't contain much evidence of your content at all, while I make efforts in substantiating my points and you just brush off any people at BW who contradict your narrative.

 

The number of 99.7 is already flawed as this just reflects one month with Omicron infections or less (as per MOH's website). Anybody with common sense would now that such numbers are not representative for any comparision of Omicron with flu or other Covid variants.

Second you totally leave out the long term Covid medical complications in your post painting Omicron as harmless.

 

As I opined before: Omicron is not harmless and is still a serious risk to unvaccinated people or such with underlying medical conditions.

 

 

 

 

 

Of course you ‘have not much mood’ to respond to my queries because they show up the fact that your claims are exaggerations or just plain wrong. 
 

Let’s leave it at this:

 

 a) the articles about 6-800 flu deaths quote that the data is from moh 

 b) according to this article, there are about 132,000 people over 18 who are unvaccinated:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/vaccinated-people-accounted-30-covid-19-deaths-last-year-ong-ye-kung-2424926
 c) based on your calculation, assuming the 9.7 per 100,000 people figure is correct, 13 people would therefore die - not 108,000 or 432

 d) this does not reset every 7 days, not sure where you got this idea

 e) for the fifth or sixth time: I didn’t say omicron was harmless, I said it was less severe - global experience confirms this.

 f) the 99.7% rate for Singapore shows outcomes have improved since omicron arrived - in October last year, for example, it was 98.7%

 

You have decided to tell yourself a certain story and stick with it, that’s your choice but let’s not pretend any of it is based on facts. 
 

over and out. 

 

 

[singalion]

On 1/29/2022 at 4:25 PM, Guest Wtf said:

c) based on your calculation, assuming the 9.7 per 100,000 people figure is correct, 13 people would therefore die - not 108,000 or 432

 

 

You don't need to harp on the number of 108,000 which I already corrected as I took a wrong parameter.

 

Wrong:

The death incidence rate from the table 1 of the CDC was explicitly mentioned as a 7 day rate.

Go back to the table.

If 9.7 out of 100,000 people die in one week how many die in one month?

Then, how does this number relate to the total unvaccinated population?

 

This is why my initial (but corrected) number was plausible from the start.

 

 

On 1/29/2022 at 4:25 PM, Guest Wtf said:

 d) this does not reset every 7 days, not sure where you got this idea

 

Sure it does, the weekly incidence rate refers just to one single week. It does go up or down.

The higher the infection rate the higher the risk for people to die as the virus is spreading to more people.

If according to you 13 people die in one week, how does this relate to one month???

 

 

On 1/29/2022 at 4:25 PM, Guest Wtf said:

 f) the 99.7% rate for Singapore shows outcomes have improved since omicron arrived - in October last year, for example, it was 98.7%

 

I doubt in October were already numbers for Omicron.

 

On 1/29/2022 at 4:25 PM, Guest Wtf said:

b) according to this article, there are about 132,000 people over 18 who are unvaccinated:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/vaccinated-people-accounted-30-covid-19-deaths-last-year-ong-ye-kung-2424926

 

That might be so, but you need to ask Mr Ong what he meant with "people".

What are "people" here?

Residents or just Singaporeans or population?

The number must refer to Singaporeans exclusively but not to population.

 

Surely not population. If there is a population of 5.6 million in Singapore and 88% received their second vaccination.

How many remain unvaccinated?

 

Response: Surely not just 132,000.

 

 

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/29/2022 at 4:50 PM, singalion said:

 

 

You don't need to harp on the number of 108,000 which I already corrected as I took a wrong parameter.

 

Wrong:

The death incidence rate from the table 1 of the CDC was explicitly mentioned as a 7 day rate.

Go back to the table.

If 9.7 out of 100,000 people die in one week how many die in one month?

Then, how does this number relate to the total unvaccinated population?

 

This is why my initial (but corrected) number was plausible from the start.

 

 

 

Sure it does, the weekly incidence rate refers just to one single week. It does go up or down.

The higher the infection rate the higher the risk for people to die as the virus is spreading to more people.

If according to you 13 people die in one week, how does this relate to one month???

 

 

 

I doubt in October were already numbers for Omicron.

 

 

That might be so, but you need to ask Mr Ong what he meant with "people".

What are "people" here?

Residents or just Singaporeans or population?

The number must refer to Singaporeans exclusively but not to population.

 

Surely not population. If there is a population of 5.6 million in Singapore and 88% received their second vaccination.

How many remain unvaccinated?

 

Response: Surely not just 132,000.

 

 

You are really clutching at straws.

 

Let’s say I accept your calculation methodology and data set, I need to take 9.7% of 132,000, both of these figures are for unvaccinated adults. Then I have 13 people. Let’s say that figure resets each week, this means…. 52 people die per month, not 432. That would be 624 per year which is…yes, you guessed it, less than the average number of flu deaths per year. 
 

Like I said, believe what you want and panic if it helps but please don’t pretend that what you feel is rationally derived or informed by facts. 

[singalion]

On 1/29/2022 at 5:25 PM, Guest Wtf said:

You are really clutching at straws.

 

Let’s say I accept your calculation methodology and data set, I need to take 9.7% of 132,000, both of these figures are for unvaccinated adults. Then I have 13 people. Let’s say that figure resets each week, this means…. 52 people die per month, not 432. That would be 624 per year which is…yes, you guessed it, less than the average number of flu deaths per year. 
 

Like I said, believe what you want and panic if it helps but please don’t pretend that what you feel is rationally derived or informed by facts. 

 

But just for clarification or accurateness: The number of unvaccinated in the Straits Times article cannot refer to the Singapore population. If the population is 5.6 mil, 88% are how many?. 

 

We differ on the number of unvaccinated! That's why our death numbers are different. 

 

 

[Guest Wtf]

   On 1/29/2022 at 4:25 PM, Guest Wtf said: 

 f) the 99.7% rate for Singapore shows outcomes have improved since omicron arrived - in October last year, for example, it was 98.7%

 

I doubt in October were already numbers for Omicron

——-

 

re-read my comment for f) - the whole point was that the level of cases with no or mild symptoms has increased since omicron arrived, by 1% from October to today. Don’t let you convincing yourself you are right affect your reading comprehension as badly as it has your maths. 

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/29/2022 at 5:57 PM, singalion said:

 

But just for clarification or accurateness: The number of unvaccinated in the Straits Times article cannot refer to the Singapore population. If the population is 5.6 mil, 88% are how many?. 

 

We differ on the number of unvaccinated! That's why our death numbers are different. 

 

 

so what number are you using for unvaccinated? Because I kind of thought the one from the health minister might be more reliable than some random guy on blowing wind… 😂 

 

If you are including kids, then you are mixing apples and oranges by comparing death rates in over 18s from one dataset with a dataset that includes under 18s as the other. As we know that children are far less likely to die from Covid than adults, so the comparison doesn’t stand. 
 

anyway, this discussion is going nowhere. You are wrong but convinced you are right and are clutching at straws to support flawed data handling.. Why not come back here in a month and tell me who was correct? I will be happy to read your conclusion, 

[singalion]

On 1/29/2022 at 5:59 PM, Guest Wtf said:

 

   On 1/29/2022 at 4:25 PM, Guest Wtf said: 

 f) the 99.7% rate for Singapore shows outcomes have improved since omicron arrived - in October last year, for example, it was 98.7%

 

I doubt in October were already numbers for Omicron

——-

 

re-read my comment for f) - the whole point was that the level of cases with no or mild symptoms has increased since omicron arrived, by 1% from October to today. Don’t let you convincing yourself you are right affect your reading comprehension as badly as it has your maths. 

 

it is common knowledge now that Omicron is milder to most but still a not negligble risk of death for unvaccinated (and people with underlying medical conditions or immunities).

This was what I was pointing to at all of my posts.

 

[singalion]

On 1/29/2022 at 6:06 PM, Guest Wtf said:

so what number are you using for unvaccinated? Because I kind of thought the one from the health minister might be more reliable than some random guy on blowing wind… 😂 

 

If you are including kids, then you are mixing apples and oranges by comparing death rates in over 18s from one dataset with a dataset that includes under 18s as the other. As we know that children are far less likely to die from Covid than adults, so the comparison doesn’t stand. 
 

anyway, this discussion is going nowhere. You are wrong but convinced you are right and are clutching at straws to support flawed data handling.. Why not come back here in a month and tell me who was correct? I will be happy to read your conclusion, 

 

We can go rounds but it will not lead to anything. The number of deaths even the incidence rate is in the end all speculation or expectations. The numbers will only be determined or conclusive once the pandemic is over.

 

it is wrong for you to say "that I am wrong". Your starting point is just different.

 

It is obvious that the number stated by the Minister does not refer to the whole population of Singapore.

If, then the vaccination numbers that MOH published would not be correct.

Second, the number does not even make sense if you count it from Singaporeans only, and also it does not make sense if you exclude the <Banned Words> y olds.

 

I made clear that my starting point is the population of Singapore, which stands at 5.6 million.

 

132,000 makes 2.35 % of the population of Singapore.

Why is then the published vaccination rate for 2 shots at 88%?

 

I don't think I am clutching on straws.

 

You stick to the 132,000 number of unvaccinated which obviously can't be correct compared to 88% having received 2 shots of vaccine. You just need to calculate 12 % from 5.6 million.

 

Eventually this should also lead to the conclusion that the number of mild infections (99.7%) refers to Singaporeans and not the resident population of Singapore...???

 

If Singapore only counts the numbers from Singaporean citizens, then it deviates from the practice in other countries.

 

Unfortunately, I am not in the position to get the number stated by the Minister verified.

 

However, to me it is obvious that there is a contradiction of a vaccination rate of 88%, meaning 12% are not vaccinated and the number of 132,000.

 

With 3.5 million Singaporeans, the number of 12 % is at 420,000. (The citizens below 20 years is at around 345,000), excluding the below 18y olds the number of 12% would be at 378,600. 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Guest]

On 1/30/2022 at 2:06 PM, singalion said:

 

it is common knowledge now that Omicron is milder to most but still a not negligble risk of death for unvaccinated (and people with underlying medical conditions or immunities).

This was what I was pointing to at all of my posts.

 

Have you lost your mind ? Omicron is not mild at all: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/omicron-may-be-less-severe-young-and-old-not-mild-who-2419416

[Guest Guest]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-deaths-jan-29-moh-icu-hospital-2467536

 

Infection numbers are increasing, but we are still importing more and more cases everyday ! I really wonder how can a person test positive if he/she did a PCR test before departure 

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/30/2022 at 2:34 PM, singalion said:

 

We can go rounds but it will not lead to anything. The number of deaths even the incidence rate is in the end all speculation or expectations. The numbers will only be determined or conclusive once the pandemic is over.

 

it is wrong for you to say "that I am wrong". Your starting point is just different.

 

It is obvious that the number stated by the Minister does not refer to the whole population of Singapore.

If, then the vaccination numbers that MOH published would not be correct.

Second, the number does not even make sense if you count it from Singaporeans only, and also it does not make sense if you exclude the <Banned Words> y olds.

 

I made clear that my starting point is the population of Singapore, which stands at 5.6 million.

 

132,000 makes 2.35 % of the population of Singapore.

Why is then the published vaccination rate for 2 shots at 88%?

 

I don't think I am clutching on straws.

 

You stick to the 132,000 number of unvaccinated which obviously can't be correct compared to 88% having received 2 shots of vaccine. You just need to calculate 12 % from 5.6 million.

 

Eventually this should also lead to the conclusion that the number of mild infections (99.7%) refers to Singaporeans and not the resident population of Singapore...???

 

If Singapore only counts the numbers from Singaporean citizens, then it deviates from the practice in other countries.

 

Unfortunately, I am not in the position to get the number stated by the Minister verified.

 

However, to me it is obvious that there is a contradiction of a vaccination rate of 88%, meaning 12% are not vaccinated and the number of 132,000.

 

With 3.5 million Singaporeans, the number of 12 % is at 420,000. (The citizens below 20 years is at around 345,000), excluding the below 18y olds the number of 12% would be at 378,600. 

 

 

 

 

 

please lah, you are just making yourself look ridiculous now - you are telling me to believe your back of an envelope calculation as opposed to numbers provided by the minister of health and widely shared in official channels? 
 

and in all this, what is your actual point? How many people have you now decided will die from omicron per month in Singapore? And if that number is too high, what number would you accept to move to less restrictions? These are really simple questions and instead you choose to go into a long digression on what numbers might or might not be counted where and how the Singapore population is defined. 

[sgmaven]

On 1/30/2022 at 3:00 PM, Guest Guest said:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-deaths-jan-29-moh-icu-hospital-2467536

 

Infection numbers are increasing, but we are still importing more and more cases everyday ! I really wonder how can a person test positive if he/she did a PCR test before departure 

Remember that PCR testing is not 100%. It is based on the amplification of viral fragments in the swab. If the viral load is low (if you just got infected), you will test negative. But as time passes, the virus replicates in your body, and will get to a level/concentration that will give a positive result.

According to current protocols, you can enter Singapore via VTL lane, by providing a negative PCR or professionally-administered ART test, taken within 2 days before departure. I know of people (local in Singapore), who only tested ART-positive only on Day 5 of the development of COVID symptoms. If this is the case, then those who could have been on the early days of infection, could very easily enter Singapore, based on VTL and a negative ART test, only to be tested COVID positive, after they arrive (they are now tested every day up to Day 7 of arrival).

 

Remember that

[sgmaven]

I think MOH is not bothering about how many are ART-positive. Heard from quite a few sources that people are being "released" from SHN after COVID, automatically on Day 6 of infection, even if they are still ART-positive.

[Guest guest]

On 5/29/2021 at 9:15 PM, Guest guest said:

latest regional at 8pm

 

https://ibb.co/VCG6g3Q

top 5 with latest regional at this morning - after 8 months

 

https://ibb.co/PCqwwFg

[lonelyglobe]

On 1/30/2022 at 3:00 PM, Guest Guest said:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-deaths-jan-29-moh-icu-hospital-2467536

 

Infection numbers are increasing, but we are still importing more and more cases everyday ! I really wonder how can a person test positive if he/she did a PCR test before departure 

One, when their virus load is not high enough to be detected. Could also be after the test they kena covid. 

 

Two,  different standard in doing the PCR, watch taiwan news and one commented the test done in US and in Taiwan is quite different, one is like half way through but the other one all the way in. 

 

Three, some countries are just famous for fake stuff,  everything can be fake if you have money, how negative you want also no problem. Everyone knew except the stupid decision makers.

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by lonelyglobe

[lonelyglobe]

On 1/30/2022 at 9:25 PM, sgmaven said:

I think MOH is not bothering about how many are ART-positive. Heard from quite a few sources that people are being "released" from SHN after COVID, automatically on Day 6 of infection, even if they are still ART-positive.

There is no way they can be bothered anymore when we are talking about 5000+ cases everyday. Even contact tracing also not sure got do properly or not. The mistake they make is to keep stressing with full vaccination,  covid can be treated like common flu which resulted in people really dont care anymore. If so, then please remove all restrictions including compulsory mask weraing. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by lonelyglobe

[sgmaven]

I do agree that the government's stance on COVID and the Omicron variant is a bit contradictory. On the one hand, they have made it so easy for the virus to spread in the community by allowing for Home Recovery, especially when a COVID patient gets automatically released from SHN on Day 6 of testing positive (even if they are still ART-positive). Their insistence on the protection afforded by the vaccine (saying it will only lead to mild symptoms, if any), have let many to let down their guard. Don't forget that the Delta variant is still pretty common amongst the COVID-positive individuals.

If COVID can be treated like the common cold, then we should be able to do away with masks and other restrictions (such as visiting each other and dining-in). We should also do away with the SHN, if it is so mild. After all, we allow for packed buses and MRT trains during rush hours, completely ignoring any social distancing. It seems that rules apply when it is convenient.

Yet, we know that COVID can lead to very serious symptoms, some of which can last much longer than a hospital stay (long-COVID), and may even lead to death. Some will cite that just as many die as the result of influenza every year, but I don't think there is anything like long-COVID for influenza. And I am not just talking about the unvaccinated, but also immuno-compromised individuals, as well as those who are allergic to the vaccines. Don't forget that some people also don't seem to be able to produce significant amounts of antibodies from the vaccine shots, so that could be vaxed and boosted, but still have low immunity against COVID.

 

In the past 3 days, I have had friends and their families coming down with COVID. Thank goodness they seem to have relatively mild symptoms, but it is turning out to be quite a memorable CNY for them (in the wrong way). Wishing everyone who celebrates CNY a Happy CNY, and I hope everyone stays safe and healthy.

[Guest Guest]

On 1/31/2022 at 12:07 AM, lonelyglobe said:

There is no way they can be bothered anymore when we are talking about 5000+ cases everyday. Even contact tracing also not sure got do properly or not. The mistake they make is to keep stressing with full vaccination,  covid can be treated like common flu which resulted in people really dont care anymore. If so, then please remove all restrictions including compulsory mask weraing. 

 

This pretty much tell you everything...

 

 

 

.... but hey, who cares? Singaporeans are easily replaceable by the 1 billion CECA waiting to come over here. 

[Guest Fuck covid]

On 1/31/2022 at 5:22 AM, Guest Guest said:

 

This pretty much tell you everything...

 

 

 

.... but hey, who cares? Singaporeans are easily replaceable by the 1 billion CECA waiting to come over here. 

If people like you keep pressing for lockdowns, don't want to go to work due to fear of the virus, what other option do the employers have other than replacing with FT?

[singalion]

On 1/30/2022 at 3:34 PM, Guest Wtf said:

you are telling me to believe your back of an envelope calculation as opposed to numbers provided by the minister of health and widely shared in official channels? 
 

 

Actually I m not sure whether the last posts are from the "real" Guest WTF.

 

But just calculate 88% of 5,600,000 then you should arrive at the unvaccinated residents in Singapore.

 

In my personal view the number stated by the Minister does not make sense if it refers to

a) Singaporeans only

b) Singaporeans above 18y only

c) residents (inclusive of Work Pass and Long Term Pass holders, PRs...)

 

because the number would always be much higher...

 

It contradicts the 88% mentioned by MOH for vaccinated persons in Singapore with two vaccine shots.

 

As I wrote earlier, I am in no position to clarify the number or get information on how they derived at these 132,000 unvaccinated (but what is sure is that this number cannot refer to population in Singapore, residents in Singapore...).

 

Draw your own conclusions.

 

 

 

[singalion]

On 1/30/2022 at 3:34 PM, Guest Wtf said:

and in all this, what is your actual point? How many people have you now decided will die from omicron per month in Singapore? And if that number is too high, what number would you accept to move to less restrictions?

 

The restrictions will remain until the Omicron infection wave is past.

That is my personal opinion.

 

Most Western Governments have also taken this approach, since the Delta wave has passed and Omicron being less severe.

 

The Government recommendations was

a) get vaccinated

b) get boostered.

 

For those who don't, life is at their own risk as the government has shown the way out of the pandemic or the way to minimise the personal risk by getting vaccinated and boostered.

 

Hopefully, there won't be any new variant in the coming months, then in 2 - 3 months existing restrictions might be relaxed.

 

The relaxations will come in increasing the number of people who can be together.

 

But as long as the daily new infections are around 3,000 - 6,000 I don't see any relaxations coming.

 

 

 

[singalion]

On  "mild" and "less severe".

 

Singapore tweaks Covid-19 measures, braces for 25,000 daily cases in Omicron wave

Fri, Jan 21, 2022

 

said Health Minister and taskforce co-chair Ong Ye Kung

 

"As it becomes increasingly evident that Omicron is a less severe disease than Delta, GPs also started to see more and more mild Omicron cases," said Ong.

 

While such GP-prescribed protocol 2 cases numbered about 100 to 200 on Jan 6, it rose quickly to about 400 to 500 cases a day last week, and over 1,000 cases a day this week.

"MOH has reviewed the situation and decided that it is better to include the GP protocol 2 cases in our daily updates on infection numbers. It will give a better picture of the epidemic situation in Singapore and which part of the curve we are on," Ong said.

However, he cautioned that this is "still not the full picture" because many cases with mild or no symptoms remain undetected.

 

 

If Ministers juggle between "mild" and "less severe" in the same context, then what should laymen do???

 

It was WHO that came up with that less severe but not mild opinion. I guess, WHO has certain own interests in labeling Omicron as less severe but not mild, because WHO is pushing for more vaccines for the poorer countries.

Omicron might not be "mild" for those unvaccinated... because it is still a Covid-19 virus.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Guest]

First day of Chinese New Year should have that reminiscent “lock down feel” that we all went through ….

Second day not so much …. as some shops already open liao … 

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/31/2022 at 3:08 PM, Guest Fuck covid said:

If people like you keep pressing for lockdowns, don't want to go to work due to fear of the virus, what other option do the employers have other than replacing with FT?

I doubt guest guest will be missed by his employer (if he has one) in any lockdown, tbh.
 

With his limited comprehension skills, failure at basic maths, negative attitude to other people and incessant trolling (and selecting the shittest gifs possible 😂), I can’t imagine he is winning employee of the month anywhere anytime soon. 

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/31/2022 at 4:06 PM, singalion said:

On  "mild" and "less severe".

 

Singapore tweaks Covid-19 measures, braces for 25,000 daily cases in Omicron wave

Fri, Jan 21, 2022

 

said Health Minister and taskforce co-chair Ong Ye Kung

 

"As it becomes increasingly evident that Omicron is a less severe disease than Delta, GPs also started to see more and more mild Omicron cases," said Ong.

 

While such GP-prescribed protocol 2 cases numbered about 100 to 200 on Jan 6, it rose quickly to about 400 to 500 cases a day last week, and over 1,000 cases a day this week.

"MOH has reviewed the situation and decided that it is better to include the GP protocol 2 cases in our daily updates on infection numbers. It will give a better picture of the epidemic situation in Singapore and which part of the curve we are on," Ong said.

However, he cautioned that this is "still not the full picture" because many cases with mild or no symptoms remain undetected.

 

 

If Ministers juggle between "mild" and "less severe" in the same context, then what should laymen do???

 

It was WHO that came up with that less severe but not mild opinion. I guess, WHO has certain own interests in labeling Omicron as less severe but not mild, because WHO is pushing for more vaccines for the poorer countries.

Omicron might not be "mild" for those unvaccinated... because it is still a Covid-19 virus.

 

 

 

 

 

On 1/31/2022 at 4:02 PM, singalion said:

 

The restrictions will remain until the Omicron infection wave is past.

That is my personal opinion.

 

Most Western Governments have also taken this approach, since the Delta wave has passed and Omicron being less severe.

 

The Government recommendations was

a) get vaccinated

b) get boostered.

 

For those who don't, life is at their own risk as the government has shown the way out of the pandemic or the way to minimise the personal risk by getting vaccinated and boostered.

 

Hopefully, there won't be any new variant in the coming months, then in 2 - 3 months existing restrictions might be relaxed.

 

The relaxations will come in increasing the number of people who can be together.

 

But as long as the daily new infections are around 3,000 - 6,000 I don't see any relaxations coming.

 

 

 

Wait, after arguing with me for days, you now confirm that omicron is more mild and that restrictions will likely be relaxed soon (as they should be). 

 

 

[Guest Guest]

On 1/31/2022 at 5:28 PM, Guest Wtf said:

I doubt guest guest will be missed by his employer (if he has one) in any lockdown, tbh.
 

With his limited comprehension skills, failure at basic maths, negative attitude to other people and incessant trolling (and selecting the shittest gifs possible 😂), I can’t imagine he is winning employee of the month anywhere anytime soon. 

 

Oh ... and of course everyone has" limited comprehension skills" in the eyes of some mathematics whiz kid with such a "beautiful mind". The entire world will be looking forward to our first Nobel Award winner hailing from Singapore soon. But I guess you might just have to deal with your obvious mental illness first before you die getting flung out of a car in some car crash, just like how that mathematical whiz did. 

[lonelyglobe]

On 1/31/2022 at 4:24 PM, Guest Guest said:

First day of Chinese New Year should have that reminiscent “lock down feel” that we all went through ….

Second day not so much …. as some shops already open liao … 

The real challenge  will be after CNY,  if number continue to rise especially those hospitalise cases plus a shortage of nurse,  then we can expect some restrictions to come back,  then they can blame because people dont follow rules during CNY. 

[Guest Wtf]

On 1/31/2022 at 9:39 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

Oh ... and of course everyone has" limited comprehension skills" in the eyes of some mathematics whiz kid with such a "beautiful mind". The entire world will be looking forward to our first Nobel Award winner hailing from Singapore soon. But I guess you might just have to deal with your obvious mental illness first before you die getting flung out of a car in some car crash, just like how that mathematical whiz did. 

Thanks for proving my point! Again.

 

😂

[sgmaven]

On 1/31/2022 at 10:49 PM, lonelyglobe said:

The real challenge  will be after CNY,  if number continue to rise especially those hospitalise cases plus a shortage of nurse,  then we can expect some restrictions to come back,  then they can blame because people dont follow rules during CNY. 

Judging from the number of people who seem to be flouting the "5 unique visitors a day per household" rule for Chinese New Year's Eve, you can expect an explosion in COVID infections. I am sure the flouting will continue over the entire period.

[Guest Fuck covid]

On 1/31/2022 at 9:39 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

Oh ... and of course everyone has" limited comprehension skills" in the eyes of some mathematics whiz kid with such a "beautiful mind". The entire world will be looking forward to our first Nobel Award winner hailing from Singapore soon. But I guess you might just have to deal with your obvious mental illness first before you die getting flung out of a car in some car crash, just like how that mathematical whiz did. 

This guy needs some real help! No sane person could say such stupid things

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:28 AM, Guest Fuck covid said:

This guy needs some real help! No sane person could say such stupid things

correct! Unfortunately, the main impact of covid on some people has been how much it has affected their mental health. 
 

Hopefully he can get some help one day. In the meantime, he’ll keep posting his nonsense here. 

[Guest Guest]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-deaths-feb-1-moh-omicron-icu-hospital-2472531

 

Singapore reports 6,264 new COVID-19 cases, 3 deaths

[Guest Fuck covid]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60215200

Denmark Covid restrictions lifted despite increase in cases

 

A ray of hope? Maybe SG will soon follow