Covid Situation in SG discussion (compiled)

[singalion]

On 1/31/2022 at 5:32 PM, Guest Wtf said:

 

Wait, after arguing with me for days, you now confirm that omicron is more mild and that restrictions will likely be relaxed soon (as they should be). 

 

 

 

I never argued in favour of more restictions! 

 

I mentioned it various times. 

 

My argument was to point out that Omicron remains a serious (while decreased compared to Delta) danger to unvaccinated. That was all. 

 

Second, the number of unvacvinated mentioned by Ong did not make sense if you looked at the total population of Singapore compared to the 12% unvacvinated. 

What the minister was referring to remains his secret, but obviously not the total population or even the total Singaporeans. 

 

Got it now? 

 

[singalion]

On 1/31/2022 at 10:49 PM, lonelyglobe said:

The real challenge  will be after CNY,  if number continue to rise especially those hospitalise cases plus a shortage of nurse,  then we can expect some restrictions to come back,  then they can blame because people dont follow rules during CNY. 

 

Get used that with Omicron the numbers of infected will rise!

 

Just look at Europe, US or Australia (even China).

 

Better hope for Omicron to be the last variant!

 

 

[Guest Guest]

Denmark Lifts Restrictions

Good or bad? 🤔

[Guest Fuck covid]

On 2/2/2022 at 3:09 PM, Guest Guest said:

Denmark Lifts Restrictions

Good or bad? 🤔

Bad for kiasi people like you

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/2/2022 at 2:05 PM, singalion said:

 

I never argued in favour of more restictions! 

 

I mentioned it various times. 

 

My argument was to point out that Omicron remains a serious (while decreased compared to Delta) danger to unvaccinated. That was all. 

 

Second, the number of unvacvinated mentioned by Ong did not make sense if you looked at the total population of Singapore compared to the 12% unvacvinated. 

What the minister was referring to remains his secret, but obviously not the total population or even the total Singaporeans. 

 

Got it now? 

 

the 132,000 figure that was in the article is clearly stated as being adults aged over 18. It is written in the article and I also wrote it in my post. 
 

I then explained this to you a number of times because you were making calculations with one data set that included children and adults (the total number of unvaccinated people) and another study that was considering only adults (severe illness rates). 

[Guest Guest]

On 2/1/2022 at 12:26 PM, Guest Wtf said:

correct! Unfortunately, the main impact of covid on some people has been how much it has affected their mental health. 
 

Hopefully he can get some help one day. In the meantime, he’ll keep posting his nonsense here. 

 

It's pretty funny to see two poor lonely souls, hugging and seeking comfort in each other's arms, trying to fight against the tide when everyone else already agrees that the current anti-covid prevention measures are too laxed, especially when the recent spikes in daily cases are already there to prove the case.  

 

But it's OK. I guess we shouldn't be hard on those intellectually-disabled retards who just couldn't grasp the seriousness of the situation, and we have to be more forgiving towards them. Amen. 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/2/2022 at 4:56 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

It's pretty funny to see two poor lonely souls, hugging and seeking comfort in each other's arms, trying to fight against the tide when everyone else already agrees that the current anti-covid prevention measures are too laxed, especially when the recent spikes in daily cases are already there to prove the case.  

 

But it's OK. I guess we shouldn't be hard on those intellectually-disabled retards who just couldn't grasp the seriousness of the situation, and we have to be more forgiving towards them. Amen. 

by ‘everyone else’, do you mean the voices in your head? Because out in the real world - not far from your covid proof bunker - there are very few people saying current measures are ‘too laxed (sic)’. 

[lonelyglobe]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:17 AM, Guest Fuck covid said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60215200

Denmark Covid restrictions lifted despite increase in cases

 

A ray of hope? Maybe SG will soon follow

No way,  SG will be one of the last few countries if not last country to lift restrictions. 

[Guest Fuck covid]

this guy makes sense

https://www.facebook.com/calvinchengnmp/posts/501177234700255

[Guest Guest]

On 2/3/2022 at 2:13 PM, Guest Fuck covid said:

this guy makes sense

https://www.facebook.com/calvinchengnmp/posts/501177234700255

 

Calvin Cheng?? Lol! Yeah right.... Anyone who even believe him really has no clue how bad his reputation is right now. He is the most "in"credible PAP mouthpiece on the entire land. Are you him? Trying to get a couple more fan boys here, after you have destroyed your own reputation everywhere else? 

[Guest Fuck covid]

On 2/3/2022 at 2:31 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

Calvin Cheng?? Lol! Yeah right.... Anyone who even believe him really has no clue how bad his reputation is right now. He is the most "in"credible PAP mouthpiece on the entire land. Are you him? Trying to get a couple more fan boys here, after you have destroyed your own reputation everywhere else? 

I was already expecting another vague response from you.

[Guest Guest]

This is what you call good government which really cares for it's people

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/new-zealand-reopen-borders-foreigners-covid-19-restrictions-2476031

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/3/2022 at 9:25 PM, Guest Guest said:

This is what you call good government which really cares for it's people

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/new-zealand-reopen-borders-foreigners-covid-19-restrictions-2476031

did you read the article or just the headline? 😂 

 

because if you are the guest guest who lives in a covid proof bunker, I doubt you will be happy with how much they are now starting re-open. Their measures will be in line with Singapore pretty soon. 

[singalion]

On 2/2/2022 at 4:25 PM, Guest Wtf said:

the 132,000 figure that was in the article is clearly stated as being adults aged over 18. It is written in the article and I also wrote it in my post. 
 

I then explained this to you a number of times because you were making calculations with one data set that included children and adults (the total number of unvaccinated people) and another study that was considering only adults (severe illness rates). 

 

But the data of people <Banned Words> be-low 18 can be taken from Government Statistics. 

It are 345,000. 

 

Therefore, 5,6 million minus 345,000 make what number? 

 

And now, if you calculate 12% from that number, do you arrive at 132,000???

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by singalion

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/4/2022 at 3:24 AM, singalion said:

 

But the data of people <Banned Words> be-low 18 can be taken from Government Statistics. 

It are 345,000. 

 

Therefore, 5,6 million minus 345,000 make what number? 

 

And now, if you calculate 12% from that number, do you arrive at 132,000???

 

 

What source do you have for the 345,000 number? Because the department of statistics already shows over 345,000 people aged 0-9. 

[Guest Wtf]

Anyway, it’s pointless arguing endlessly about a number. The main points remain the same: your earlier calculations were overly alarmist, omicron is milder and there is no need for tighter restrictions and it is instead time to relax further. 

[singalion]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:14 AM, Guest Wtf said:

What source do you have for the 345,000 number? Because the department of statistics already shows over 345,000 people aged 0-9. 

 

Thanks, you just devoided your own argument that the number of 132,000 non vaccinated people in Singapore can be correct.

 

 

[singalion]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:17 AM, Guest Wtf said:

Anyway, it’s pointless arguing endlessly about a number. The main points remain the same: your earlier calculations were overly alarmist, omicron is milder and there is no need for tighter restrictions and it is instead time to relax further. 

 

No, my recalculated numbers were not alarmist at all, because they pointed all the time to the existing risks for unvaccinated people to die from Omicron also.

 

You always ignore the remaining risk of Omicron for unvaccintated people.

 

We are all happier if the number of deceased by Omicron will turn out smaller than the initial projection from the data from the first two months.

 

Also due to the reluctance of unvaccinated people in Singapore to receive a vaccination, restrictions will remain in place longer than eventually required.

 

The difference in hospitalization for unvaccinated and vaccinated for the omicron variant

Feb 3, 2022,

• For the week ending on Jan. 8, unvaccinated people were 3.6 times more likely to be infected with COVID-19 compared to those with booster shots, according to the CDC data.
• Unvaccinated people were 23 times more likely to be hospitalized compared to those with boosters.

Why it matters: “These findings align with those from recent studies, indicating that COVID-19 vaccination protects against severe COVID-19 caused by … variants, including omicron,” the CDC’s report read. “Efforts to promote COVID-19 vaccination and boosters are critical to preventing COVID-19–associated hospitalizations and severe outcomes.”

 

 

U.S. Covid fatalities reach highest level in a year as omicron cases subside

Published Tue, Feb 1 2022

Covid deaths rise

The U.S. death toll from Covid rose to an average of more than 2,400 fatalities per day over the previous seven days as of Monday, according to Johns Hopkins data.

 

Jennifer Nuzzo, head of epidemiology at Johns Hopkins Covid Resource Center, said Covid deaths may rise even more, because states with lower vaccination rates got hit later by omicron and haven’t experienced the full brunt of the variant yet.

 

The rapid jump in new infections over the past month means deaths will continue to follow.

 

“As long as we have tens of millions of people who will not get vaccinated, we’re going to have full hospitals and needless deaths,” President Joe Biden said earlier this month.

 

Although omicron generally doesn’t make people as sick as past strains, Walensky said, that doesn’t mean the variant is mild. She called on the public to wear masks and get vaccinated and boosted to help ease the burden on hospitals.

“I know many people are tired, but many of our hospitals are still struggling beyond capacity,” Walensky said. “It’s been a long two years. However, please now do your part to lean in to this current moment.”

 

 

Don't underestimate Omicron -- especially if you're unvaccinated

Analysis by Dr. Tom Frieden and Dr. Shama Cash-Goldwasser

Updated 1358 GMT (2158 HKT) January 21, 2022

 

But if the risk of death for unvaccinated people is 10 times higher than the risk of death for vaccinated people, those who are unvaccinated face a greater risk of death from Omicron than they do from the flu, whereas those who are vaccinated have an extremely low risk of death from Omicron.

 

We can make a big difference by taking simple actions to limit transmission, shield the most vulnerable from infection and protect health care.

That means vaccinating as many people as are willing; wearing masks in public and especially in crowded indoor settings; upgrading to more protective N95 masks where indicated by individual (older, immunosuppressed) or situational (crowded, indoors, unmasked people in a high-Covid-prevalence area) risk; increasing rapid testing; isolating from the most vulnerable contacts for a full 10 days to limit their risk; and ensuring universal availability of effective Covid treatments.

 

 

 

 

It is simple logic. The more infections, the higher the risk for unvaccinated people.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by singalion

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/4/2022 at 1:38 PM, singalion said:

 

Thanks, you just devoided your own argument that the number of 132,000 non vaccinated people in Singapore can be correct.

 

 

how have you decided that now? It seems maths is not your thing. 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/4/2022 at 2:00 PM, singalion said:

 

No, my recalculated numbers were not alarmist at all, because they pointed all the time to the existing risks for unvaccinated people to die from Omicron also.

 

You always ignore the remaining risk of Omicron for unvaccintated people.

 

We are all happier if the number of deceased by Omicron will turn out smaller than the initial projection from the data from the first two months.

 

Also due to the reluctance of unvaccinated people in Singapore to receive a vaccination, restrictions will remain in place longer than eventually required.

 

The difference in hospitalization for unvaccinated and vaccinated for the omicron variant

Feb 3, 2022,

• For the week ending on Jan. 8, unvaccinated people were 3.6 times more likely to be infected with COVID-19 compared to those with booster shots, according to the CDC data.
• Unvaccinated people were 23 times more likely to be hospitalized compared to those with boosters.

Why it matters: “These findings align with those from recent studies, indicating that COVID-19 vaccination protects against severe COVID-19 caused by … variants, including omicron,” the CDC’s report read. “Efforts to promote COVID-19 vaccination and boosters are critical to preventing COVID-19–associated hospitalizations and severe outcomes.”

 

 

U.S. Covid fatalities reach highest level in a year as omicron cases subside

Published Tue, Feb 1 2022

Covid deaths rise

The U.S. death toll from Covid rose to an average of more than 2,400 fatalities per day over the previous seven days as of Monday, according to Johns Hopkins data.

 

Jennifer Nuzzo, head of epidemiology at Johns Hopkins Covid Resource Center, said Covid deaths may rise even more, because states with lower vaccination rates got hit later by omicron and haven’t experienced the full brunt of the variant yet.

 

The rapid jump in new infections over the past month means deaths will continue to follow.

 

“As long as we have tens of millions of people who will not get vaccinated, we’re going to have full hospitals and needless deaths,” President Joe Biden said earlier this month.

 

Although omicron generally doesn’t make people as sick as past strains, Walensky said, that doesn’t mean the variant is mild. She called on the public to wear masks and get vaccinated and boosted to help ease the burden on hospitals.

“I know many people are tired, but many of our hospitals are still struggling beyond capacity,” Walensky said. “It’s been a long two years. However, please now do your part to lean in to this current moment.”

 

 

Don't underestimate Omicron -- especially if you're unvaccinated

Analysis by Dr. Tom Frieden and Dr. Shama Cash-Goldwasser

Updated 1358 GMT (2158 HKT) January 21, 2022

 

But if the risk of death for unvaccinated people is 10 times higher than the risk of death for vaccinated people, those who are unvaccinated face a greater risk of death from Omicron than they do from the flu, whereas those who are vaccinated have an extremely low risk of death from Omicron.

 

We can make a big difference by taking simple actions to limit transmission, shield the most vulnerable from infection and protect health care.

That means vaccinating as many people as are willing; wearing masks in public and especially in crowded indoor settings; upgrading to more protective N95 masks where indicated by individual (older, immunosuppressed) or situational (crowded, indoors, unmasked people in a high-Covid-prevalence area) risk; increasing rapid testing; isolating from the most vulnerable contacts for a full 10 days to limit their risk; and ensuring universal availability of effective Covid treatments.

 

 

 

 

It is simple logic. The more infections, the higher the risk for unvaccinated people.

 

I am not sure why you are arguing with me because I have never, anywhere, said that people should not be vaccinated. 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/4/2022 at 1:38 PM, singalion said:

 

Thanks, you just devoided your own argument that the number of 132,000 non vaccinated people in Singapore can be correct.

 

 

you need to re-read literally every single one of my posts where it clearly says that the 132,000 unvaccinated is adults over 18. 

I am not sure how many times I wrote this point but it should have been enough for you to have seen it. 

btw, the number of unvaccinated adults is now around 120,000:

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/now-is-not-the-time-to-gamble-and-remove-covid-19-vaccination-differentiation-measures-ong-ye-kung

 

 

[singalion]

On 2/4/2022 at 2:29 PM, Guest Wtf said:

how have you decided that now? It seems maths is not your thing. 

 

Surely, it is logic.

 

In my personal view without any access to the data which the Minister Ong refers to , his number of unvaccinated people must refer to what the government has accessed as "eligible" persons (Singaporeans) to be vaccinated.

 

While so far I have not found any definition what the Government has decided to call "eligible" for getting vaccinated.

What they currently seem to exclude are all below 5 year old children.

 

Once again.

Taking a 5.45 million population of Singapore (latest numbers 2021) and 89% thereof, you don't arrive at just 120,000.

 

The group of below 5 years make up to 185,355 in 2019. (no number for 2021 available from Singapore statistics). 

For easy of calculation I round it up to 186,000 , then I come to a population of 5,264,000 (exclusive of all below 5 years).

= not vaccinated (89%) from that number are  579,040.

[If I take the 92% from the "eligible" and that 5,264,000 the number would be 421,120.]

 

 

There is one graphic at the lower part which indicates the percentage of unvaccinated people per age group at MOH (and does not cover below 5yrs).

Vaccination Status by Age Group (as of 30 Jan 2022)

https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/vaccination/statistics

 

Vaccination Data (as of 2 Feb 2022)

Completed full regimen

92% of eligible population 89% of total population

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by singalion

[singalion]

Here is a good graphic that shows you perfectly that the number of 120,000 is something "special".

 

You need to go to the link.

 

https://data.gov.sg/dataset/covid-19-vaccination?resource_id=5ae0f0e8-7d61-404e-b5a9-33448cdd6d21

 

Not included is the population group below 5 years. (around 186,000)

 

The number of 2 doses of vaccination as at 30 Jan 2022 is indicated at 4,786,538

[Note: Coverage	December 30, 2020 to January 30, 2022

 

The balance to the total population is 663,462 (hence, not received 2 shots of vaccination)

 

If I deduct the below 5 years old from that balance number (= minus 186,000)

 

I derive at : 477,462.

 

 

 

[singalion]

Now is not the time to gamble and remove Covid-19 vaccination-differentiated measures: Ong Ye Kung

 

However the Straits Times article you quoted seems to confirm what I have been reasoning here all the while:

 

The risk from Omicron for unvaccinated people is

 

The minister even mentions a potential serious illness and  death toll of 5,800 people.

 

Quote:

could result in 5,800 of them ending up seriously ill or dying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now is not the time to gamble and remove Covid-19 vaccination-differentiated measures: Ong Ye Kung

 

Published 21 Jan 2022, 4:08 pm SGT

 

SINGAPORE - Singapore will not be dropping vaccination-differentiated safe management measures (VDS) because the threat to the healthcare system by unvaccinated people remains high.

 

Refuting arguments by those who say the number of unvaccinated people here is low so there should not be discrimination against them, Health Minister Ong Ye Kung said their risk of getting seriously ill and needing intensive care unit (ICU) care or dying is "far higher" than people who have been vaccinated.

 

There are now about 120,000 unvaccinated adults, the vast majority by choice.

 

Under VDS, their movements are greatly restricted. They are not allowed to attend congregational and worship services, enter attractions or cinemas, or dine at restaurants.

 

And from Feb 1, they will be prevented from doing more activities, such as using all indoor sports facilities, including privately owned ones.

 

Mr Ong, who co-chairs the multi-ministry task force tackling the pandemic, said: "The chances of unvaccinated Covid-19 patients needing ICU care or dying are many times that of the fully vaccinated - from seven times more for those aged 80 years and above, and 50 times more for those in their 30s."

 

 

Based on that, the 120,000 unvaccinated adults could result in 5,800 of them ending up seriously ill or dying.

 

Even though they are unlikely to all get infected at the same time, Mr Ong stressed that "5,800 is not a small number", and noted that at its peak, "our maximum ICU occupancy was 176".

 

With 176 beds occupied, the healthcare system was already under a severe strain, he said.

 

Even if the 5,800 getting seriously ill are spread over a couple of months, "it will be a significant load on our healthcare system, enough to displace many patients suffering from acute complications of cancer or severe chronic diseases who may need urgent medical care".

 

Mr Ong said this large number will "degrade the overall quality of care of the healthcare system, which will ultimately affect everyone, especially those non-Covid-19 patients who are critically ill".

 

They will also consume a lot of costly Covid-19 drugs.

 

"And all this can be avoided if unvaccinated individuals have chosen to take their jabs instead," he said.

 

 

The biggest risk is among older people.

 

Mr Ong pointed out that the risk of unvaccinated people falling severely ill or dying goes up with age, from 7.2 per cent for those in their 60s to 14 per cent for people in their 70s, and 24 per cent for people aged 80 years and older.

While the figures cited were based on infection with the Delta variant, which causes more serious illness than the current Omicron wave, they may still be relevant.

 

"We have not seen the full impact of the Omicron wave in Singapore," said Mr Ong.

 

"Now is not the right time to take a gamble to remove VDS on the hunch that Omicron may be less severe for the infected unvaccinated. We cannot gamble on the health of Singaporeans."

 

 

 

 

On a note: As to my knowledge "adults" in Singapore refer to people aged above 21 years (and not 18 y).

 

 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/4/2022 at 3:24 PM, singalion said:

 

Surely, it is logic.

 

In my personal view without any access to the data which the Minister Ong refers to , his number of unvaccinated people must refer to what the government has accessed as "eligible" persons (Singaporeans) to be vaccinated.

 

While so far I have not found any definition what the Government has decided to call "eligible" for getting vaccinated.

What they currently seem to exclude are all below 5 year old children.

 

Once again.

Taking a 5.45 million population of Singapore (latest numbers 2021) and 89% thereof, you don't arrive at just 120,000.

 

The group of below 5 years make up to 185,355 in 2019. (no number for 2021 available from Singapore statistics). 

For easy of calculation I round it up to 186,000 , then I come to a population of 5,264,000 (exclusive of all below 5 years).

= not vaccinated (89%) from that number are  579,040.

[If I take the 92% from the "eligible" and that 5,264,000 the number would be 421,120.]

 

 

There is one graphic at the lower part which indicates the percentage of unvaccinated people per age group at MOH (and does not cover below 5yrs).

Vaccination Status by Age Group (as of 30 Jan 2022)

https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/vaccination/statistics

 

Vaccination Data (as of 2 Feb 2022)

Completed full regimen

92% of eligible population 89% of total population

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 2/4/2022 at 3:37 PM, singalion said:

Here is a good graphic that shows you perfectly that the number of 120,000 is something "special".

 

You need to go to the link.

 

https://data.gov.sg/dataset/covid-19-vaccination?resource_id=5ae0f0e8-7d61-404e-b5a9-33448cdd6d21

 

Not included is the population group below 5 years. (around 186,000)

 

The number of 2 doses of vaccination as at 30 Jan 2022 is indicated at 4,786,538

[Note: Coverage	December 30, 2020 to January 30, 2022

 

The balance to the total population is 663,462 (hence, not received 2 shots of vaccination)

 

If I deduct the below 5 years old from that balance number (= minus 186,000)

 

I derive at : 477,462.

 

 

 

OMG, I cannot work out if you have selective blindness or are wilfully missing the point?!

 

The 132,000 (or now 120,000) number was explicitly stated as unvaccinated adults. Over 18. Unvaccinated adults over 18. I really don’t know how many times this needs to be written for you to see it?

 

so, in your new calculation, where do the 5-18 year olds fit? No wonder you are so confused if you have kept missing the key point that the data quoted by me relates, and I will say it again so you don’t miss it, relates to adults over 18. 
 

Over 18.

 

Adults.

 

Get it?!?? 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/4/2022 at 3:48 PM, singalion said:

Now is not the time to gamble and remove Covid-19 vaccination-differentiated measures: Ong Ye Kung

 

However the Straits Times article you quoted seems to confirm what I have been reasoning here all the while:

 

The risk from Omicron for unvaccinated people is

 

The minister even mentions a potential serious illness and  death toll of 5,800 people.

 

Quote:

could result in 5,800 of them ending up seriously ill or dying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now is not the time to gamble and remove Covid-19 vaccination-differentiated measures: Ong Ye Kung

 

Published 21 Jan 2022, 4:08 pm SGT

 

SINGAPORE - Singapore will not be dropping vaccination-differentiated safe management measures (VDS) because the threat to the healthcare system by unvaccinated people remains high.

 

Refuting arguments by those who say the number of unvaccinated people here is low so there should not be discrimination against them, Health Minister Ong Ye Kung said their risk of getting seriously ill and needing intensive care unit (ICU) care or dying is "far higher" than people who have been vaccinated.

 

There are now about 120,000 unvaccinated adults, the vast majority by choice.

 

Under VDS, their movements are greatly restricted. They are not allowed to attend congregational and worship services, enter attractions or cinemas, or dine at restaurants.

 

And from Feb 1, they will be prevented from doing more activities, such as using all indoor sports facilities, including privately owned ones.

 

Mr Ong, who co-chairs the multi-ministry task force tackling the pandemic, said: "The chances of unvaccinated Covid-19 patients needing ICU care or dying are many times that of the fully vaccinated - from seven times more for those aged 80 years and above, and 50 times more for those in their 30s."

 

 

Based on that, the 120,000 unvaccinated adults could result in 5,800 of them ending up seriously ill or dying.

 

Even though they are unlikely to all get infected at the same time, Mr Ong stressed that "5,800 is not a small number", and noted that at its peak, "our maximum ICU occupancy was 176".

 

With 176 beds occupied, the healthcare system was already under a severe strain, he said.

 

Even if the 5,800 getting seriously ill are spread over a couple of months, "it will be a significant load on our healthcare system, enough to displace many patients suffering from acute complications of cancer or severe chronic diseases who may need urgent medical care".

 

Mr Ong said this large number will "degrade the overall quality of care of the healthcare system, which will ultimately affect everyone, especially those non-Covid-19 patients who are critically ill".

 

They will also consume a lot of costly Covid-19 drugs.

 

"And all this can be avoided if unvaccinated individuals have chosen to take their jabs instead," he said.

 

 

The biggest risk is among older people.

 

Mr Ong pointed out that the risk of unvaccinated people falling severely ill or dying goes up with age, from 7.2 per cent for those in their 60s to 14 per cent for people in their 70s, and 24 per cent for people aged 80 years and older.

While the figures cited were based on infection with the Delta variant, which causes more serious illness than the current Omicron wave, they may still be relevant.

 

"We have not seen the full impact of the Omicron wave in Singapore," said Mr Ong.

 

"Now is not the right time to take a gamble to remove VDS on the hunch that Omicron may be less severe for the infected unvaccinated. We cannot gamble on the health of Singaporeans."

 

 

 

 

On a note: As to my knowledge "adults" in Singapore refer to people aged above 21 years (and not 18 y).

 

 

you read the bit that the 5,800 number is based on delta rates?

 

 

[singalion]

 

The most recent newspaper article does not at any point say that the number of 120,000 refers to "adults above 18 years old!

 

 

 

Here:

 

There are now about 120,000 unvaccinated adults, the vast majority by choice.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/now-is-not-the-time-to-gamble-and-remove-covid-19-vaccination-differentiation-measures-ong-ye-kung

 

 

The minister is just mentioning "adults" in the 22 Jan article. 

There is no reference to the age in the last article.

 

 

[singalion]

On 2/4/2022 at 3:57 PM, Guest Wtf said:

you read the bit that the 5,800 number is based on delta rates?

 

 

 

Yes I did. I posted the full article in my own post.

 

The Minister stated that there is so far no conclusive data for Omicron from Singapore.

 

Even if you half the impact from Delta.

 

There is still a risk of death and serious illness of 2.900.

 

It is obvious that with all attempts on your recent posts you try to play down the Omicron risk by all means.

[singalion]

On 2/4/2022 at 3:52 PM, Guest Wtf said:

OMG, I cannot work out if you have selective blindness or are wilfully missing the point?!

 

The 132,000 (or now 120,000) number was explicitly stated as unvaccinated adults. Over 18. Unvaccinated adults over 18. I really don’t know how many times this needs to be written for you to see it?

 

 

Over 18.

 

Adults.

 

Get it?!?? 

 

 

The Singapore population above 20 years old as per the Statistics Data (2021) is 4,671,500.

 

There is no available number for 18 and 19 year old part of the population.

 

If the Minister does not mention any age reference, as he did not in his last speech reported on 22 Jan, then I would look at the legal age, which in Singapore is 21.

 

However, that is not relevant at all (even if the Minister meant above 18 y olds).

 

Your repeated harping on "adults" is unhelpful to the issue.

 

The fact is that below 21y olds and be-low 20 year olds  <Banned Words> can also get infected with Covid-19 and as such spread the virus within Singapore (also to unvaccinated elderly people who according to the available Singapore statistics and date build the biggest group of unvaccinated persons here, namely 4% 70y and above and 6% 80y and above. )

 

The fact is also that roughly around more than 650,000 people of the Singapore population remain unvaccinated irrespective of age and can serve as Covid virus spreaders in the community.

 

Don't you get this???

 

 

Your only aim here is to talk down anyone who challenges your posts and your intention to play down  the existing risk of Covid-19 (irrespective what variant).

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by singalion

[singalion]

If Omicron is less severe, why are COVID-19 deaths rising?

 

31 Jan 2022

 

• The US Omicron death toll has now surpassed the highest seven-day average of the more severe Delta variant.
• Omicron has been found to spread much more quickly than Delta.
• Hospitals have struggled with admissions from the Omicron surge – and the US and UK brought in the military to help.
• Getting vaccinated and taking other measures can stop the spread of Omicron and reduce the risk of other variants emerging.

And deaths are continuing to rise too. On 28 January, Australia suffered its deadliest day of the pandemic so far, with nearly 100 deaths.

 

In the US, Omicron is claiming an average of 2,200 lives each day – higher than the Delta variant, which peaked at a seven-day average of 2,078 in September last year, according to Reuters analysis.

 

But scientists have found that Omicron is less severe than the Delta variant, and more people are vaccinated now – with the number of vaccine doses distributed globally at more than 10 billion.

 

So why are so many people still dying?

 

Omicron more transmissible than Delta

As we’ve seen throughout the two years of the pandemic, deaths lag behind rises in case numbers, so we’re likely to see increasing death numbers as Omicron cases continue to climb in some countries, including Russia and Brazil.

Omicron has been found to spread much more quickly than the previously dominant Delta variant – with studies suggesting it’s four times more transmissible.

 

Most of those who are dying from Omicron in the US are unvaccinated, showing that vaccines do make a difference in reducing hospitalization and deaths.

 

"More infectious variants tend to run through a population very rapidly," Wafaa El-Sadr, a professor of epidemiology and medicine at Columbia University in New York City, told Reuters. "Even if such new variants cause less severe disease (particularly among those vaccinated and boosted), we will likely still see an increase in hospitalizations and deaths due to the vulnerability of the unvaccinated and unboosted.

 

“It will be a while until we see a decrease in deaths as very sick people with COVID remain hospitalized for a long time," she said.

 

 

 

The issue is that Omicron spreads much faster, something you can realise from the much higher infection numbers in Singapore also.

 

The Republic recorded 4,297 new Covid-19 cases as at noon on Thursday, according to statistics on MOH's website.

1 Feb had 6,100 cases, which has tripled since 15 Jan.

 

 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/4/2022 at 4:48 PM, singalion said:

If Omicron is less severe, why are COVID-19 deaths rising?

 

31 Jan 2022

 

• The US Omicron death toll has now surpassed the highest seven-day average of the more severe Delta variant.
• Omicron has been found to spread much more quickly than Delta.
• Hospitals have struggled with admissions from the Omicron surge – and the US and UK brought in the military to help.
• Getting vaccinated and taking other measures can stop the spread of Omicron and reduce the risk of other variants emerging.

And deaths are continuing to rise too. On 28 January, Australia suffered its deadliest day of the pandemic so far, with nearly 100 deaths.

 

In the US, Omicron is claiming an average of 2,200 lives each day – higher than the Delta variant, which peaked at a seven-day average of 2,078 in September last year, according to Reuters analysis.

 

But scientists have found that Omicron is less severe than the Delta variant, and more people are vaccinated now – with the number of vaccine doses distributed globally at more than 10 billion.

 

So why are so many people still dying?

 

Omicron more transmissible than Delta

As we’ve seen throughout the two years of the pandemic, deaths lag behind rises in case numbers, so we’re likely to see increasing death numbers as Omicron cases continue to climb in some countries, including Russia and Brazil.

Omicron has been found to spread much more quickly than the previously dominant Delta variant – with studies suggesting it’s four times more transmissible.

 

Most of those who are dying from Omicron in the US are unvaccinated, showing that vaccines do make a difference in reducing hospitalization and deaths.

 

"More infectious variants tend to run through a population very rapidly," Wafaa El-Sadr, a professor of epidemiology and medicine at Columbia University in New York City, told Reuters. "Even if such new variants cause less severe disease (particularly among those vaccinated and boosted), we will likely still see an increase in hospitalizations and deaths due to the vulnerability of the unvaccinated and unboosted.

 

“It will be a while until we see a decrease in deaths as very sick people with COVID remain hospitalized for a long time," she said.

 

 

 

The issue is that Omicron spreads much faster, something you can realise from the much higher infection numbers in Singapore also.

 

The Republic recorded 4,297 new Covid-19 cases as at noon on Thursday, according to statistics on MOH's website.

1 Feb had 6,100 cases, which has tripled since 15 Jan.

 

 

so, to finally come full circle after all your crazy calculations, subdivisions and definitions of who is or is not in which number: what do you propose to do in the face of a milder and more transmissible variant? Carry on as we are? Impose more restrictions? Relax measures?

 

Because it is not at all clear what your proposal is. Other than that unvaccinated should get vaccinated, which most people commenting here anyway already agree with. 

[Guest Wtf]

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/singapore-in-strong-position-to-ease-restrictions-further-experts

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/4/2022 at 4:48 PM, singalion said:

If Omicron is less severe, why are COVID-19 deaths rising?

 

31 Jan 2022

 

• The US Omicron death toll has now surpassed the highest seven-day average of the more severe Delta variant.
• Omicron has been found to spread much more quickly than Delta.
• Hospitals have struggled with admissions from the Omicron surge – and the US and UK brought in the military to help.
• Getting vaccinated and taking other measures can stop the spread of Omicron and reduce the risk of other variants emerging.

And deaths are continuing to rise too. On 28 January, Australia suffered its deadliest day of the pandemic so far, with nearly 100 deaths.

 

In the US, Omicron is claiming an average of 2,200 lives each day – higher than the Delta variant, which peaked at a seven-day average of 2,078 in September last year, according to Reuters analysis.

 

But scientists have found that Omicron is less severe than the Delta variant, and more people are vaccinated now – with the number of vaccine doses distributed globally at more than 10 billion.

 

So why are so many people still dying?

 

Omicron more transmissible than Delta

As we’ve seen throughout the two years of the pandemic, deaths lag behind rises in case numbers, so we’re likely to see increasing death numbers as Omicron cases continue to climb in some countries, including Russia and Brazil.

Omicron has been found to spread much more quickly than the previously dominant Delta variant – with studies suggesting it’s four times more transmissible.

 

Most of those who are dying from Omicron in the US are unvaccinated, showing that vaccines do make a difference in reducing hospitalization and deaths.

 

"More infectious variants tend to run through a population very rapidly," Wafaa El-Sadr, a professor of epidemiology and medicine at Columbia University in New York City, told Reuters. "Even if such new variants cause less severe disease (particularly among those vaccinated and boosted), we will likely still see an increase in hospitalizations and deaths due to the vulnerability of the unvaccinated and unboosted.

 

“It will be a while until we see a decrease in deaths as very sick people with COVID remain hospitalized for a long time," she said.

 

 

 

The issue is that Omicron spreads much faster, something you can realise from the much higher infection numbers in Singapore also.

 

The Republic recorded 4,297 new Covid-19 cases as at noon on Thursday, according to statistics on MOH's website.

1 Feb had 6,100 cases, which has tripled since 15 Jan.

 

 

the sad thing is that you and quite a few other people still haven’t realised is that it is not a question of if you will catch covid 19 but when. It is endemic, we will all encounter it and in spite of all social distancing and hygiene measures, we will probably all catch it.
 

So you can try and delay the spread in ways that mean the healthcare system is not overwhelmed and to ensure optimal clinical outcomes for those who need additional medical help but there is no other reason to limit circulation of the virus now that zero covid is no longer viable. Counties can now either let it spread more quickly, like the UK, relying on vaccination to minimise (but not eliminate entirely) the severity of the cases, and get i the peak over with and go back to normal life, knowing that your population then has a high level of protection from natural immunity from infection and the additional protection of vaccination. Or you can drag it out for longer…

 

With such a high percentage of the Singapore population vaccinated and with a milder variant circulating, what is the point of dragging it out for so much longer if you accept that all are going to catch covid going forward? As the article I shared highlights, actually it could be a better approach to have the higher wave now while vaccine protection is at its highest. 

[singalion]

On 2/4/2022 at 5:23 PM, Guest Wtf said:

to finally come full circle after all your crazy calculations, subdivisions and definitions of who is or is not in which number:

 

I don't think my calculations are crazy...

 

Ministers might have a different task and surely don't intend to cause worry.

 

It is obvious that he states a certain low number for political reasons.

 

 

I think Singapore should keep the current restrictions in place for the next 3 months to pass the Omicron wave and help to slower the spread.

 

The last question that remains is, whether after a certain time we would need another booster?

Science is not yet clear on this.

Israel has started giving a 4th vaccine injection.

 

On the world scale it is necessary to assist poorer countries to vaccinate more quickly. Otherwise we always risk new "Delta" or "Omicron" outbreaks. this is also an area where not only richer countries can step in but also extremely rich people all over the world.

 

 

 

[lonelyglobe]

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/locally-transmitted-covid-19-cases-rise-to-13046-with-6-more-deaths

[sgmaven]

There is no political will to deal with the outbreak of Omicron, and it will just sweep through the community. Just pray that you and your loved ones will either be asymptomatic or get very mild symptoms, rather than needing hospitalisation.

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/5/2022 at 3:40 AM, sgmaven said:

There is no political will to deal with the outbreak of Omicron, and it will just sweep through the community. Just pray that you and your loved ones will either be asymptomatic or get very mild symptoms, rather than needing hospitalisation.

how should it be ‘dealt with’?

 

the chances are that loved ones will be asymptomatic or get very mild symptoms on the basis of thr 99.7% of cases like this. Do you normally pray to avoid a 0.3% risk? If so, I can give you a list of other things you should pray for on a daily basis. 

[Guest Guest]

To think such things can still happen in Singapore. 

 

https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/erroneous-administration-of-fourth-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-to-103-year-old

 

 

ERRONEOUS ADMINISTRATION OF FOURTH DOSE OF COVID-19 VACCINE TO 103-YEAR-OLD

 

 4TH FEB 2022

        The Ministry of Health (MOH) is concluding its investigation of a case of a 103-year-old nursing home resident at ECON Healthcare – Chai Chee Nursing Home who was erroneously administered with a fourth dose of COVID-19 vaccine by a mobile vaccination team from PanCare Medical Clinic.

2     The resident had previously received three doses of COVID-19 vaccine, and was erroneously given a fourth shot on 13 December 2021.  On 16 December 2021, the resident was admitted to Changi General Hospital for pneumonia and hyponatremia, and subsequently also diagnosed to have suffered a stroke. She passed away on 10 January 2022.  Her death was reported to the Coroner, who ordered an autopsy to be conducted. The autopsy found that the main cause of death was pneumonia, with other contributing factors being cerebral infarction (or stroke) and coronary artery disease, which are natural disease processes common in seniors. The Coroner has not determined whether these causes of death were linked to the vaccination. 

3     MOH takes a serious view of this incident and is carrying out a thorough investigation under Regulations 14A(1) and 36(1) of the Private Hospitals and Medical Clinics Regulations. We expect the investigations to conclude in February 2022.  Our preliminary findings were that the vaccine was erroneously administered due to possible irregularities in vaccination procedures and poor communication between the nursing home and the medical service provider handling the vaccination. This is the first case of mistaken identity leading to erroneous vaccination by a mobile vaccination team in over 152,000 vaccinations to date. 

4     MOH had planned to announce this incident in December 2021. However, the family of the resident had requested to withhold details which could have led to the identification of the resident. We have since consulted the family further and are releasing the information to provide clarity on the incident. 

5     We understand that ECON Healthcare Group and PanCare Medical Clinic have co-funded the resident’s hospital bill as a goodwill gesture. ECON Healthcare has also been in contact with the resident’s family to render support to them. 

6     Both ECON Healthcare and PanCare Medical Clinic have reviewed their processes to prevent a recurrence. The Agency for Integrated Care, whose role is to facilitate vaccinations in nursing homes, has reminded all nursing homes to ensure proper communications with the mobile vaccination teams when vaccination takes place. MOH has also reminded all mobile vaccination teams to perform independent identity verification and authentication before administering any vaccination.


MINISTRY OF HEALTH 
4 FEBRUARY 2022

[Guest Guest]

Number of new cases reported on 4 Feb 2022:  13,046

 

But of course, when it comes to numbers, the sky's the limit if we are talking about re-implementation of the lockdown, since the new excuse now is "Omicron is milder". Who cares even if the entire population gets infected and every single old person and/or immuno-compromised people drop dead, right? The vaccine is supposed to have given them "superpowers". 

 

The economy and the money are so much more important. 

[Guest Guest]

On 2/5/2022 at 7:37 AM, Guest Guest said:

Number of new cases reported on 4 Feb 2022:  13,046

 

But of course, when it comes to numbers, the sky's the limit if we are talking about re-implementation of the lockdown, since the new excuse now is "Omicron is milder". Who cares even if the entire population gets infected and every single old person and/or immuno-compromised people drop dead, right? The vaccine is supposed to have given them "superpowers". 

 

The economy and the money are so much more important. 

 

13,046 is just the number of local cases alone. Total actual number is 13,208 including imported cases. 

 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/singapore-reports-13208-new-covid-19-cases-6-deaths-2479421  : 

Singapore reports 13,208 new COVID-19 cases, 6 deaths

 

[Guest Guest]

Why no lockdown despite so many cases ?? I am really worried about people at risk

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/singapore-in-strong-position-to-ease-restrictions-further-experts

 

Quote

 

But Prof Leo Yee Sin, executive director of the National Centre for Infectious Diseases (NCID), took the opposite view, urging for more measures rather than fewer, since there are still vulnerable people here who remain unvaccinated.

Prof Leo suggested there might be a need "to heighten rather than do away with measures" that have proven effective.

This could include reducing the number of people gathering. While vaccination provides the best protection, safe management measures have their value, she argued.

She said that while mild, Omicron still poses risks to those unvaccinated. In Singapore, this includes those eligible but not vaccinated, children between five and 12 years of age who are currently undergoing Covid-19 vaccination, and those below five years old.

 

 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/5/2022 at 7:37 AM, Guest Guest said:

Number of new cases reported on 4 Feb 2022:  13,046

 

But of course, when it comes to numbers, the sky's the limit if we are talking about re-implementation of the lockdown, since the new excuse now is "Omicron is milder". Who cares even if the entire population gets infected and every single old person and/or immuno-compromised people drop dead, right? The vaccine is supposed to have given them "superpowers". 

 

The economy and the money are so much more important. 

 

On 2/5/2022 at 7:51 AM, Guest Guest said:

 

13,046 is just the number of local cases alone. Total actual number is 13,208 including imported cases. 

 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/singapore-reports-13208-new-covid-19-cases-6-deaths-2479421  : 

Singapore reports 13,208 new COVID-19 cases, 6 deaths

 

 

On 2/5/2022 at 8:57 AM, Guest Guest said:

Why no lockdown despite so many cases ?? I am really worried about people at risk

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/singapore-in-strong-position-to-ease-restrictions-further-experts

 

 

“panic, panic, lockdown, lockdown…”

 

please get a grip and try and understand that everyone is going to catch covid at some point and it is just a question of when. 
 

the question is when do you want them to catch it? 

[Guest Guest]

On 2/5/2022 at 9:48 AM, Guest Wtf said:

“panic, panic, lockdown, lockdown…”

 

please get a grip and try and understand that everyone is going to catch covid at some point and it is just a question of when. 
 

the question is when do you want them to catch it? 

 

The only reason why everyone is going to catch covid at some point and why it is just a question of when, is simply because some "task force" allowed COVID to be spread unchecked with token actions put as as "restrictions", while others like you are going around to spread propaganda as to why COVID should be allowed to be spread unchecked.

 

And what is this all for? It's all for the sake of the money.  

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/5/2022 at 10:12 AM, Guest Guest said:

 

The only reason why everyone is going to catch covid at some point and why it is just a question of when, is simply because some "task force" allowed COVID to be spread unchecked with token actions put as as "restrictions", while others like you are going around to spread propaganda as to why COVID should be allowed to be spread unchecked.

 

And what is this all for? It's all for the sake of the money.  

🥱

 

You are like a scratched record. Try moving on and living in 2022. 

[Guest Guest]

On 2/5/2022 at 10:14 AM, Guest Wtf said:

🥱

 

You are like a scratched record. Try moving on and living in 2022. 

 

See? That's the difference between those who are short-sighted plus money-minded versus the others. You only wish to move on and live in 2021 and 2022. All the others are hoping to be still moving and living even after that. 

 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/5/2022 at 10:12 AM, Guest Guest said:

 

The only reason why everyone is going to catch covid at some point and why it is just a question of when, is simply because some "task force" allowed COVID to be spread unchecked with token actions put as as "restrictions", while others like you are going around to spread propaganda as to why COVID should be allowed to be spread unchecked.

 

And what is this all for? It's all for the sake of the money.  

If zero cases is what you want, the best thing you can do is move to China, which is by now nearly the only country in the world still practising a zero covid strategy.
 

Or just lockdown yourself. 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/5/2022 at 11:49 AM, Guest Guest said:

 

See? That's the difference between those who are short-sighted plus money-minded versus the others. You only wish to move on and live in 2021 and 2022. All the others are hoping to be still moving and living even after that. 

 

What year do you think the pandemic will end based on your ‘strategy’ of endless lockdowns? What year will you start ‘living’ (whatever that means to you)? 
 

I know there is no point asking you these questions because you are only able to ignorantly complain and have  no credible suggestions or ideas to offer. But I am bored waiting for my coffee, so might as well ask to amuse myself. 

 

[Guest Guest]

I don't think there will be anymore lockdown or downgrade to 2 for dinning.Everything will remain the same we have to learn how to live with it. Many borders will open after may this year.It will be a test and go  and each person will have to buy insurance for traveling

[singalion]

On 2/5/2022 at 9:48 AM, Guest Wtf said:

 

 

“panic, panic, lockdown, lockdown…”

 

please get a grip and try and understand that everyone is going to catch covid at some point and it is just a question of when. 
 

the question is when do you want them to catch it? 

 

The main reason why I "objected" to plenty of your posts is, because the past weeks you have been playing down the risk of Covid-19 and the latest variant.

 

First again: I m not supportive of any new lockdown or extremely strict regulations to counter the Omicron wave.

 

However, I confront you when you attempt to play down the risk.

 

Third: You forget that there are people out here in Singapore (and the world) where even Omicron is a death sentence.

Have you ever spared any single thought on those people who by medical reasons can't get vaccinated?

 

These people live in daily fear of contracting Covid-19 and in danger to face the worst outcome.

 

Ask your Minister how many people in Singapore are affected by such immunocompromised health conditions.

 

Please stop playing down Omicron.

 

We should be feeling lucky to have received 2 vaccinations and a booster, but should never close our eyes to those in different scenarios (and the elderly or those with underlying medical conditions, where Omicron is still a risk to their life.)

 

If you had ever spared some thought on this angle, you would not always attempt to ridicule people here who point to these risks and existing conditions.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/5/2022 at 1:46 PM, singalion said:

 

The main reason why I "objected" to plenty of your posts is, because the past weeks you have been playing down the risk of Covid-19 and the latest variant.

 

First again: I m not supportive of any new lockdown or extremely strict regulations to counter the Omicron wave.

 

However, I confront you when you attempt to play down the risk.

 

Third: You forget that there are people out here in Singapore (and the world) where even Omicron is a death sentence.

Have you ever spared any single thought on those people who by medical reasons can't get vaccinated?

 

These people live in daily fear of contracting Covid-19 and in danger to face the worst outcome.

 

Ask your Minister how many people in Singapore are affected by such immunocompromised health conditions.

 

Please stop playing down Omicron.

 

We should be feeling lucky to have received 2 vaccinations and a booster, but should never close our eyes to those in different scenarios (and the elderly or those with underlying medical conditions, where Omicron is still a risk to their life.)

 

If you had ever spared some thought on this angle, you would not always attempt to ridicule people here who point to these risks and existing conditions.

 

 

 

 

 

this is where you are totally wrong. I have spared a thought and I have considered it on many levels and I still do not see why people like you are so concerned about omicron and a virus where 99.7% of cases in Singapore are mild or asymptomatic. 99.7%. Please let that number sink in and think about what that means. And please also consider that this 99.7% is from confirmed cases, meaning they have been tested and logged, which means the actual percentage is probably even higher if you accept - as most people do - that not everyone with covid is being officially tested and confirmed as a positive case. 
 

In a highly vaccinated population, the negative societal impacts of covid restrictions and protocols in terms of impact on the healthcare system, mental health, personal development, education and, yes, the economy, are doing far greater damage to society than covid is. 
 

Covid is one of the many health risks faced by the elderly or people with vulnerable immune systems and pre-existing conditions. There is also flu, pneumonia and all manner of of infection risks. Do we remove all these risks? How do we handle these risks and why are measures not in place that impact the whole of society to protect this smaller group, if you believe that this is right approach? And why have you not been asking for these measures the last years? 6-800 people died every year because of flu in Singapore and nobody seemed to have given these people so much as a second thought, so please spare me the hand-wringing.