Covid Situation in SG discussion (compiled)

singalion · February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 3:10 PM, Guest Wtf said:

this is where you are totally wrong. I have spared a thought and I have considered it on many levels and I still do not see why people like you are so concerned about omicron and a virus where 99.7% of cases in Singapore are mild or asymptomatic. 99.7%. Please let that number sink in and think about what that means. And please also consider that this 99.7% is from confirmed cases, meaning they have been tested and logged, which means the actual percentage is probably even higher if you accept - as most people do - that not everyone with covid is being officially tested and confirmed as a positive case.

Come on give it a break.

Your numbers are from a phase where Omicron was still not in full bloom.

The infection peak is just starting to creep into Singapore.

Take a look to other countries.

Australia has a similar vaccination rate and look at the numbers.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

Omicron has caused a daily death toll in Australia of averaging 70 per day for the last 7 days...

You still are continuing in a very immature way to play down Omicron instead of warning your fellows to take precaution and stay at home as much as they can.

Your posts are irresponsible looking at the situation.

February 5, 2022

Our gov have the data on who is not vaccinated.They will engage someone to visit them to purpose either choice of vaccine.Very soon it will be a compusory thing for all Singaporean. If those who die due to the vaccine gov will have a payout to their family.

singalion · February 5, 2022

What you mean with

If those die due to the vaccine?

Who died because he was vaccinated in Singapore???

Are you confusing death caused by Covid-19 or death caused by the vaccination???

The government has already said that those who remain unvaccinated by choice will not be covered for the medical.

COVID-19 patients who are unvaccinated 'by choice' will have to pay their own medical bills from Dec 8

08 Nov 2021

SINGAPORE: From Dec 8, all COVID-19 patients who are unvaccinated "by choice" will have to pay their own medical bills if they are admitted to hospitals or COVID-19 treatment facilities, the Ministry of Health (MOH) said on Monday (Nov 8).

The Government is currently footing the full COVID-19 medical bills of all Singaporeans, permanent residents and long-term pass holders, other than for those who test positive soon after returning from overseas travel.

"Currently, unvaccinated persons make up a sizeable majority of those who require intensive inpatient care, and disproportionately contribute to the strain on our healthcare resources," said MOH.

The new rule will apply to COVID-19 patients who are eligible for vaccination but choose not to do so.

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 3:10 PM, Guest Wtf said:

this is where you are totally wrong. I have spared a thought and I have considered it on many levels and I still do not see why people like you are so concerned about omicron and a virus where 99.7% of cases in Singapore are mild or asymptomatic. 99.7%. Please let that number sink in and think about what that means. And please also consider that this 99.7% is from confirmed cases, meaning they have been tested and logged, which means the actual percentage is probably even higher if you accept - as most people do - that not everyone with covid is being officially tested and confirmed as a positive case.

In a highly vaccinated population, the negative societal impacts of covid restrictions and protocols in terms of impact on the healthcare system, mental health, personal development, education and, yes, the economy, are doing far greater damage to society than covid is.

Covid is one of the many health risks faced by the elderly or people with vulnerable immune systems and pre-existing conditions. There is also flu, pneumonia and all manner of of infection risks. Do we remove all these risks? How do we handle these risks and why are measures not in place that impact the whole of society to protect this smaller group, if you believe that this is right approach? And why have you not been asking for these measures the last years? 6-800 people died every year because of flu in Singapore and nobody seemed to have given these people so much as a second thought, so please spare me the hand-wringing.

Oh? You have considered it on many levels and you still do not see why people are so concerned about omicron and a virus where 99.7% of cases in Singapore are mild or asymptomatic?

Which bunker have you been living in not to know that the COVID virus has caused 5,744,674 deaths in the world, with the USA accounting for 924,530 of these deaths?

Yes, there is also flu, pneumonia and all manner of of infection risks. But the infectious rate of covid is by far much higher than any of them. But of course, you won't care, would you? All you care about is the undermining the seriousness of the situation just so that you can earn your money.

So now, it is time for us to throw your question back to you:

What numbers do you want to see before the country retracts the re-opening the economy, because the daily infection has gone passed 5,000 for several days now and it even bulldozed through 13,000 cases yesterday, and the COVID-19 infection growth rate R₀ has also gone past 2.0 in Jan? Whatever happened to the COVID 1.0 R₀ mark that was the key point of concern last time?

Or perhaps all these numbers are just for wayang purposes, and therefore, they also float around like the piece of shit you are, since everything is - using your infamous prataman quote- "dependent on the situation". To you, these numbers should change like the weather, just so that people can go party like there is no tomorrow like the situation at the Clark Quay New Year Eve party, and you can earn your money from the likes of them?

In case you are not aware, Omicron already has evolved into another sub-variant, the BA.2, which is 1.5x more infectious than the original Omicron BA.1 variant. The evolution of COVID virus has not stopped.

Why don't you just admit it and say that you just want to enjoy earning your money, even though Singapore's economy actually grew 7.2% in 2021. It's all about you, You, YOU all the time, regardless who dies for you, isn't it?

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 4:49 PM, Guest Guest said:

Oh? You have considered it on many levels and you still do not see why people are so concerned about omicron and a virus where 99.7% of cases in Singapore are mild or asymptomatic?

Which bunker have you been living in not to know that the COVID virus has caused 5,744,674 deaths in the world, with the USA accounting for 924,530 of these deaths?

Yes, there is also flu, pneumonia and all manner of of infection risks. But the infectious rate of covid is by far much higher than any of them. But of course, you won't care, would you? All you care about is the undermining the seriousness of the situation just so that you can earn your money.

So now, it is time for us to throw your question back to you:

What numbers do you want to see before the country retracts the re-opening the economy, because the daily infection has gone passed 5,000 for several days now and it even bulldozed through 13,000 cases yesterday, and the COVID-19 infection growth rate R₀ has also gone past 2.0 in Jan? Whatever happened to the COVID 1.0 R₀ mark that was the key point of concern last time?

Or perhaps all these numbers are just for wayang purposes, and therefore, they also float around like the piece of shit you are, since everything is - using your infamous prataman quote- "dependent on the situation". To you, these numbers should change like the weather, just so that people can go party like there is no tomorrow like the situation at the Clark Quay New Year Eve party, and you can earn your money from the likes of them?

In case you are not aware, Omicron already has evolved into another sub-variant, the BA.2, which is 1.5x more infectious than the original Omicron BA.1 variant. The evolution of COVID virus has not stopped.

Why don't you just admit it and say that you just want to enjoy earning your money, even though Singapore's economy actually grew 7.2% in 2021. It's all about you, You, YOU all the time, regardless who dies for you, isn't it?

sorry to be so blunt but you are so fucking stupid that there is zero point discussing anything with you.

why do you care whether something is more infectious or not if, in parallel, it is also less severe? This obsession with infection rates above all other metrics is totally ridiculous for a virus where 99.7%+ of cases are mild or asymptomatic in a population with an incredibly high vaccination rate. To answer your question, I would impose more restrictions when we are reaching ICU capacity or the healthcare system cannot treat those who need it.

and what is your obsession the idea that economy = evil!? What do you live on? Where does that money come from? Where do you think jobs come from? How is food paid for? Seriously, try joining the rest of us in the real world and not some covid paranoid cuckoo land.

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 3:40 PM, singalion said:

Come on give it a break.

Your numbers are from a phase where Omicron was still not in full bloom.

The infection peak is just starting to creep into Singapore.

Take a look to other countries.

Australia has a similar vaccination rate and look at the numbers.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

Omicron has caused a daily death toll in Australia of averaging 70 per day for the last 7 days...

You still are continuing in a very immature way to play down Omicron instead of warning your fellows to take precaution and stay at home as much as they can.

Your posts are irresponsible looking at the situation.

you still don’t understand statistics or percentages it seems? Of course, if there are more cases, there will be more deaths, nobody is denying that. But look at the Australia statistics and you will see that the mortality rate has not moved at all in a negative direction.

On your second point: What should people stay home for? When will you get it into your head that it is not a question of if you will catch Covid but when you will catch it? How long are you going to stay home for? At what point in time are you ready to catch it? Are you better to catch it now when boosted and a milder variant is circulating or better to wait for who knows what?

and how do you go from one day posting that omicron is more mild and less severe to now claiming it is irresponsible of me to claim this? You might not agree with me but at least I am consistent and deriving my options from the data and facts at the time.

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 5:09 PM, Guest Wtf said:

sorry to be so blunt but you are so fucking stupid that there is zero point discussing anything with you.

why do you care whether something is more infectious or not if, in parallel, it is also less severe? This obsession with infection rates above all other metrics is totally ridiculous for a virus where 99.7%+ of cases are mild or asymptomatic in a population with an incredibly high vaccination rate. To answer your question, I would impose more restrictions when we are reaching ICU capacity or the healthcare system cannot treat those who need it.

and what is your obsession the idea that economy = evil!? What do you live on? Where does that money come from? Where do you think jobs come from? How is food paid for? Seriously, try joining the rest of us in the real world and not some covid paranoid cuckoo land.

Oh, really? You will impose more restrictions when we are reaching ICU capacity or the healthcare system cannot treat those who need it? ICU hit 80% capacity was reported to have hit 80% capacity in the past. You were still calling for the further opening of the economy then, won't you? There is already now a shortage of healthcare staff. Are you volunteering yourself to become a healthcare worker? No? But you are still calling for the reopening of the economy, aren't you? So much for "I would impose more restrictions when we are reaching ICU capacity or the healthcare system cannot treat those who need it". Don't make us laugh, you piece of shit.

And who said anything about "economy = evil"!? I already said, Singapore's economy actually grew 7.2% in 2021. So why the need to open so much further?

Actually, It is obvious that the retard is you. There is zero point discussing anything with you, when all you care about is how a piece of shit like you earn your money even if it is at the expense of other people's death, especially that of the elderly.

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 5:17 PM, Guest Wtf said:

Of course, if there are more cases, there will be more deaths, nobody is denying that.

OMG! AFTER ALL THE VARIOUS POSTS, YOU FINALLY GET IT! AMEN!

singalion · February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 5:17 PM, Guest Wtf said:

On your second point: What should people stay home for? When will you get it into your head that it is not a question of if you will catch Covid but when you will catch it? How long are you going to stay home for? At what point in time are you ready to catch it? Are you better to catch it now when boosted and a milder variant is circulating or better to wait for who knows what?

Surely people at current situation are advised to reduce any social contacts and reduce potential infection scenarios.

And you think people go out to catch Omicron intentionally, because once they had it they feel happier?

What responsible person would go here and tell people: Get infected, sooner or later you will be infected.

You still compare Omicron and Covid with a flu.

Please get acquainted with Omicron instead of posting all your inaccuracies here at BW.

Have you heard of long term Covid 19 effects and people suffering from Covid for months.

Nobody can asses how his body will react to Covid-19 inclusive of Omicron.

There have been 18 y olds who died without any underlying medical conditions after 2 weeks of being infected.

If Singaporeans reduce unnecessary social contacts, surely not everyone will get Omicron.

On 2/5/2022 at 5:17 PM, Guest Wtf said:

and how do you go from one day posting that omicron is more mild and less severe to now claiming it is irresponsible of me to claim this? You might not agree with me but at least I am consistent and deriving my options from the data and facts at the time.

You are maybe the only one here who thinks that you are "consistent" in your views.

You take some preliminary numbers and declare it to be conclusive...

Yes, I said, Omicron is milder to most and maybe less severe in its impact.

But I was always the one who pointed to the existing risks for certain groups.

You are still totally playing down Omicron.

You are totally ignoring the risk.

Australia with a vaccination rate of 90% has been seeing a five fold number of deaths just the past 1 month from Omicron.

Not everyone is 25 y old and would pass an Omicron infection mildly.

Tell us why hospital beds are filling with Omicron cases in Singapore the past weeks?

Either you are a person who thinks to always have the last word or one who is quarrelsome by nature.

Please refrain from further playing down and ignoring Omicron (and posting here your self invented story line or weird cures such as getting infected).

If Omicron had been such a low risk, why then are governments worldwide maintaining restrictions due to Omicron???

Why did the Singapore government scrap the VTL flights for a month, why did they reduce the numbers of VTL permissions per day and why is the government maintaining certain existing Covid Restrictions?

Edited February 5, 2022 by singalion

singalion · February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 5:09 PM, Guest Wtf said:

This obsession with infection rates above all other metrics is totally ridiculous for a virus where 99.7%+ of cases are mild or asymptomatic in a population with an incredibly high vaccination rate. To answer your question, I would impose more restrictions when we are reaching ICU capacity or the healthcare system cannot treat those who need it.

Australia has debunked your point of view since Omicron.

Even with a higher number not facing issues with Omicron, still more people died.

One point you omit also is:

There are people waiting for certain life depending operations. When hospital staff is 90% busy with treating urgencies from Covid/Omicron, those operations are delayed and it may impact the life of these people or also result in deaths (not related to Covid-19).

Your posts are mostly ignoring the impact on society (and healthcare costs).

Guess who will need to pay for higher costs at hospitals in future?

The Government or the tax payer?

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 5:49 PM, singalion said:

Australia has debunked your point of view since Omicron.

Even with a higher number not facing issues with Omicron, still more people died.

One point you omit also is:

There are people waiting for certain life depending operations. When hospital staff is 90% busy with treating urgencies from Covid/Omicron, those operations are delayed and it may impact the life of these people or also result in deaths (not related to Covid-19).

Your posts are mostly ignoring the impact on society (and healthcare costs).

Guess who will need to pay for higher costs at hospitals in future?

The Government or the tax payer?

how has Australia debunked anything? Share some data points that show an increased mortality rate for omicron from there. Or from any country you can think of.

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 5:41 PM, singalion said:

Surely people at current situation are advised to reduce any social contacts and reduce potential infection scenarios.

And you think people go out to catch Omicron intentionally, because once they had it they feel happier?

What responsible person would go here and tell people: Get infected, sooner or later you will be infected.

You still compare Omicron and Covid with a flu.

Please get acquainted with Omicron instead of posting all your inaccuracies here at BW.

Have you heard of long term Covid 19 effects and people suffering from Covid for months.

Nobody can asses how his body will react to Covid-19 inclusive of Omicron.

There have been 18 y olds who died without any underlying medical conditions after 2 weeks of being infected.

If Singaporeans reduce unnecessary social contacts, surely not everyone will get Omicron.

You are maybe the only one here who thinks that you are "consistent" in your views.

You take some preliminary numbers and declare it to be conclusive...

Yes, I said, Omicron is milder to most and maybe less severe in its impact.

But I was always the one who pointed to the existing risks for certain groups.

You are still totally playing down Omicron.

You are totally ignoring the risk.

Australia with a vaccination rate of 90% has been seeing a five fold number of deaths just the past 1 month from Omicron.

Not everyone is 25 y old and would pass an Omicron infection mildly.

Tell us why hospital beds are filling with Omicron cases in Singapore the past weeks?

Either you are a person who thinks to always have the last word or one who is quarrelsome by nature.

Please refrain from further playing down and ignoring Omicron (and posting here your self invented story line or weird cures such as getting infected).

If Omicron had been such a low risk, why then are governments worldwide maintaining restrictions due to Omicron???

Why did the Singapore government scrap the VTL flights for a month, why did they reduce the numbers of VTL permissions per day and why is the government maintaining certain existing Covid Restrictions?

are two people using your account? Because you posted just on the last day or so an article that confirmed omicron is more mild/less severe and starting arguing with others about this… and which governments are maintaining restrictions? Do you read any world news?

last question, for the thirteenth or fourteenth time: when will you be fine with catching Covid? What window of time will work for you? Because you can tell everyone to stay home forever if that makes you feel better but you are just delaying the inevitable.

singalion · February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 5:54 PM, Guest Wtf said:

how has Australia debunked anything? Share some data points that show an increased mortality rate for omicron from there. Or from any country you can think of.

I gave you the link in my post.

Look it up for yourself.

Australia has debunked your myth that you plastered here over weeks, namely that Omicron does not pose any risk for a 90% vaccinated population.

It does.

The death toll from Omicron in Australia with a 90% or more vaccinated population is now higher than with the other strains of Covid-19.

In particular Omicron is still a real risk for elderly people above 55years of age.

Surely, I am the only one using my Member account.

You still don't get the relation between Omicron being milder/less severe and the risks for unvaccinated and elderly people.

What you failed to see, I opposed a lockdown, but I always pointed to the risk of Omicron being a cause of death for unvaccinated and elderly (latter where the starting point).

The data trend from Australia and UK are showing that Omicron still poses a risk for the more elderly (even if they are vaccinated).

On 2/5/2022 at 5:54 PM, Guest Wtf said:

how has Australia debunked anything? Share some data points that show an increased mortality rate for omicron from there. Or from any country you can think of.

It is not my duty to do your homework.

Update yourself please!

Edited February 5, 2022 by singalion

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 6:08 PM, singalion said:

I gave you the link in my post.

Look it up for yourself.

Australia has debunked your myth that you plastered here over weeks, namely that Omicron does not pose any risk for a 90% vaccinated population.

It does.

The death toll from Omicron in Australia with a 90% or more vaccinated population is higher than with the other strains of Covid-19.

In particular Omicron is still a real risk for elderly people above 55years of age.

Update yourself please!

the charts you shared showed none of that - you are mixing up death toll and mortality rate, which are nowhere near the same thing, other than that one is a consequence of the other.

please show me the chart or data where omicron is registering a higher mortality rate from anywhere in the world, as this is what you are claiming despite all contrary evidence.

singalion · February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 6:12 PM, Guest Wtf said:

the charts you shared showed none of that - you are mixing up death toll and mortality rate, which are nowhere near the same thing, other than that one is a consequence of the other.

please show me the chart or data where omicron is registering a higher mortality rate from anywhere in the world, as this is what you are claiming despite all contrary evidence.

Can you please stop distorting facts.

And stop always accusing others who contradict your posts of mixing up things.

At no point I ever argued that Omicron is registering a higher mortality rate. I am not claiming this.

The danger comes from the easier spread of Omicron.

What I was reasoning is: That Omicron poses a non negligible risk to elderly people (and unvaccinated and those with underlying medical conditions).

Australia has had its deadliest day yet of the pandemic – here’s what we know about who is dying

As the nation reaches the deadliest stage of the entire coronavirus pandemic, the protective effects of the vaccine remain clear

Fri 21 Jan 2022

The last two weeks of the Omicron outbreak have been the deadliest of the entire coronavirus pandemic, with four of the five highest daily death tolls all in the past week alone, figures reveal.

However, despite the rising numbers, experts say we still don’t know enough about who is dying and why.

Here, we’ve pulled together the information we do know about deaths from various government sources.

The data shows that for Australia’s third large Covid wave, older Australians continue to be overrepresented in the death toll, even as younger Australians record far more cases.

There were 78 deaths reported on Tuesday alone this week. Before the current wave the highest daily death toll was in September 2020, when Victoria recorded 59 deaths.

Those aged 70 and over accounted for almost 80% of the deaths in the initial waves up to August last year, and once again make up a similar share of deaths in the current wave

The government does not publish the number of booster vaccinations by age group in its daily statistics, so it is unclear what proportion of older people are protected by a third vaccine dose or not.

In NSW, which publishes much more detailed information than the federal government or other jurisdictions in its weekly surveillance reports, we can see how the risk of serious outcomes changes with both age and vaccination status.

Figures from the report show the number of deaths or ICU hospitalisations – called “severe outcomes” in the report – as a proportion of total Covid cases, split up by age group and vaccination status. So, for example, of 780 unvaccinated Covid cases in the 70-to-79 age group, there were 171 people who either died or ended up in ICU, giving a severe outcome rate of 21.9%, compared with a rate of 1.8% for vaccinated people.

These numbers show that older people face a higher rate of serious cases even while vaccinated.

What else do you need???

Edited February 5, 2022 by singalion

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 6:23 PM, singalion said:

Can you please stop distorting facts.

And stop always accusing others who contradict your posts of mixing up things.

At no point I ever argued that Omicron is registering a higher mortality rate. I am not claiming this.

The danger comes from the easier spread of Omicron.

What I was reasoning is: That Omicron poses a non negligible risk to elderly people (and unvaccinated and those with underlying medical conditions).

Australia has had its deadliest day yet of the pandemic – here’s what we know about who is dying

As the nation reaches the deadliest stage of the entire coronavirus pandemic, the protective effects of the vaccine remain clear

Fri 21 Jan 2022

The last two weeks of the Omicron outbreak have been the deadliest of the entire coronavirus pandemic, with four of the five highest daily death tolls all in the past week alone, figures reveal.

However, despite the rising numbers, experts say we still don’t know enough about who is dying and why.

Here, we’ve pulled together the information we do know about deaths from various government sources.

The data shows that for Australia’s third large Covid wave, older Australians continue to be overrepresented in the death toll, even as younger Australians record far more cases.

There were 78 deaths reported on Tuesday alone this week. Before the current wave the highest daily death toll was in September 2020, when Victoria recorded 59 deaths.

Those aged 70 and over accounted for almost 80% of the deaths in the initial waves up to August last year, and once again make up a similar share of deaths in the current wave

The government does not publish the number of booster vaccinations by age group in its daily statistics, so it is unclear what proportion of older people are protected by a third vaccine dose or not.

In NSW, which publishes much more detailed information than the federal government or other jurisdictions in its weekly surveillance reports, we can see how the risk of serious outcomes changes with both age and vaccination status.

Figures from the report show the number of deaths or ICU hospitalisations – called “severe outcomes” in the report – as a proportion of total Covid cases, split up by age group and vaccination status. So, for example, of 780 unvaccinated Covid cases in the 70-to-79 age group, there were 171 people who either died or ended up in ICU, giving a severe outcome rate of 21.9%, compared with a rate of 1.8% for vaccinated people.

These numbers show that older people face a higher rate of serious cases even while vaccinated.

What else do you need???

it has always been the case with covid that ‘older people face a higher rate of serious cases even while vaccinated’ - how is the suddenly news to you now, with the arrival of omicron abs why are presenting this as if it is some kind of new discovery?

singalion · February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 6:48 PM, Guest Wtf said:

it has always been the case with covid that ‘older people face a higher rate of serious cases even while vaccinated’ - how is the suddenly news to you now, with the arrival of omicron abs why are presenting this as if it is some kind of new discovery?

Not correct. You are whitewashing here.

In 2020 up to mid 2021 people and elderly were not vaccinated.

People died because they were not vaccinated.

But now the situation is:

Despite the vaccinations elderly people above 55 years of age Omicron still is a serious death threat.

This is the difference!

You always have been pointing to the high percentage of vaccination in Singapore in your reasoning.

Now, you resort to whitewashing here and (talking in your own words) compare apples with oranges.

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 6:57 PM, singalion said:

Not correct. You are whitewashing here.

In 2020 up to mid 2021 people and elderly were not vaccinated.

People died because they were not vaccinated.

But now the situation is:

Despite the vaccinations elderly people above 55 years of age Omicron still is a serious death threat.

This is the difference!

You always have been pointing to the high percentage of vaccination in Singapore in your reasoning.

Now, you resort to whitewashing here and (talking in your own words) compare apples with oranges.

putting a statement in bold or a bigger font does not suddenly make it a fact.

If you want to claim omicron is a ‘serious death threat’ for vaccinated elderly, you will need to show some data for this and decide how you define ‘serious’. What rate of cases are elderly? What rate is dying? You can find all this data, so go take a look abs substantiate your claim. People dying of things is not the same as it being a serious death threat.

singalion · February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 7:02 PM, Guest Wtf said:

putting a statement in bold or a bigger font does not suddenly make it a fact.

If you want to claim omicron is a ‘serious death threat’ for vaccinated elderly, you will need to show some data for this and decide how you define ‘serious’. What rate of cases are elderly? What rate is dying? You can find all this data, so go take a look abs substantiate your claim. People dying of things is not the same as it being a serious death threat.

But it is a fact that before mid 2021 people were not vaccinated against Covid.

I was pointing to the difference of situation between before mid 2021 and to now in Feb 2022.

Regarding the data it is all out there.

Look it up for yourself.

It is not my job to do your homework.

You are the one here claiming things without much substantiation and hanging on some preliminary data.

Above article on Australia already gave numbers.

I don't need to repeat it again.

I know you are just objecting because it is obvious that your narrative here had been debunked.

Omicron is not as harmless as you have been trying to paint it here at BW.

The rate of 0.03 as you claim here doesn't seem to be the case for people above 55years. (numbers here reflect a rate of 2).

Edited February 5, 2022 by singalion

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 7:27 PM, singalion said:

But it is a fact that before mid 2021 people were not vaccinated against Covid.

I was pointing to the difference of situation between before mid 2021 and to now in Feb 2022.

Regarding the data it is all out there.

Look it up for yourself.

It is not my job to do your homework.

You are the one here claiming things without much substantiation and hanging on some preliminary data.

Above article on Australia already gave numbers.

I don't need to repeat it again.

I know you are just objecting because it is obvious that your narrative here had been debunked.

Omicron is not as harmless as you have been trying to paint it here at BW.

The rate of 0.03 as you claim here doesn't seem to be the case for people above 55years. (numbers here reflect a rate of 2).

You don’t seem to understand: it is not my homework to substantiate your claims. Now you throw another number in (‘numbers here reflect a rate of 2’) without any source or data to back it up.

what do you think my narrative actually is?

February 5, 2022

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/doctors-say-covid-19-surge-is-hangover-of-cny-no-need-for-further-restrictions

oh look, there is my ‘debunked narrative‘ 😂

Enjoy reading @singalion, hope the pandemic gets better for you.

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 10:34 PM, Guest Wtf said:

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/doctors-say-covid-19-surge-is-hangover-of-cny-no-need-for-further-restrictions

oh look, there is my ‘debunked narrative‘ 😂

Enjoy reading @singalion, hope the pandemic gets better for you.

So you are saying 4k-5k daily cases is not enough to cause concerns yet? I guess the anticipated 20k daily cases will also mean nothing to you when it happens, huh? Anything for you to earn your money, even if it is drenched in blood of the covid-dead? How can you even sleep at night like that?

February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 10:45 PM, Guest Guest said:

So you are saying 4k-5k daily cases is not enough to cause concerns yet? I guess the anticipated 20k daily cases will also mean nothing to you when it happens, huh? Anything for you to earn your money, even if it is drenched in blood of the covid-dead? How can you even sleep at night like that?

👋 💤

singalion · February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 8:11 PM, Guest Wtf said:

You don’t seem to understand: it is not my homework to substantiate your claims. Now you throw another number in (‘numbers here reflect a rate of 2’) without any source or data to back it up.

what do you think my narrative actually is?

Had you made an effort reading the links, then you wouldn't ask about numbers.

singalion · February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 10:34 PM, Guest Wtf said:

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/doctors-say-covid-19-surge-is-hangover-of-cny-no-need-for-further-restrictions

oh look, there is my ‘debunked narrative‘ 😂

Enjoy reading @singalion, hope the pandemic gets better for you.

You still ignore that I never pushed for more restrictions.

The expert has mentioned the same disclaimer to what I pointed to in many of my posts:

Quote:

Associate Professor Alex Cook, an expert on infectious disease modelling, said the general public need not take additional caution, although it would be wise for those who are unvaccinated or living with someone who is to isolate themselves as much as possible.

sgmaven · February 5, 2022

On 2/5/2022 at 6:38 AM, Guest Wtf said:

how should it be ‘dealt with’?

the chances are that loved ones will be asymptomatic or get very mild symptoms on the basis of thr 99.7% of cases like this. Do you normally pray to avoid a 0.3% risk? If so, I can give you a list of other things you should pray for on a daily basis.

Contrary to what you think I am asking for, I am not proposing for a lockdown. However, I believe that we should not rely on ART self-testing, since ART can give negative results for up to a week from the onset of COVID symptoms. In other words, the COVID-positive person could have infected many others before testing positive. While PCR testing is expensive, I believe it is far more reliable.

Also, I believe that more rigorous contact-tracing should have been implemented (at the start of the wave - a bit too late now that we have more than 10,000 cases a day). The home recovery route is also a bit of a farce, since they automatically deem that you are no longer infectious on the 6th day of first showing ART-positive (even if you are still ART-positive at that stage).

February 6, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 2:22 AM, sgmaven said:

Contrary to what you think I am asking for, I am not proposing for a lockdown. However, I believe that we should not rely on ART self-testing, since ART can give negative results for up to a week from the onset of COVID symptoms. In other words, the COVID-positive person could have infected many others before testing positive. While PCR testing is expensive, I believe it is far more reliable.

Also, I believe that more rigorous contact-tracing should have been implemented (at the start of the wave - a bit too late now that we have more than 10,000 cases a day). The home recovery route is also a bit of a farce, since they automatically deem that you are no longer infectious on the 6th day of first showing ART-positive (even if you are still ART-positive at that stage).

I would take a different approach with an endemic virus but your points are fair enough.

I would say, though, it seems like there are issues coming from the fact that too many things like the recovery protocols, whether you need a certificate of recovery (and what for), when to test, are just too complicated and are treating Covid so differently to other infectious diseases with similar severity This is causing more work for the health care system and some issues with compliance and understanding from people of what it means to be positive and also with society in general realizing that Covid is endemic.

A sensible next step would be to simplify many of the Covid regulations and protocols that have been added to and added to over the last two years.

singalion · February 6, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 2:22 AM, sgmaven said:

Contrary to what you think I am asking for, I am not proposing for a lockdown. However, I believe that we should not rely on ART self-testing, since ART can give negative results for up to a week from the onset of COVID symptoms. In other words, the COVID-positive person could have infected many others before testing positive. While PCR testing is expensive, I believe it is far more reliable.

Also, I believe that more rigorous contact-tracing should have been implemented (at the start of the wave - a bit too late now that we have more than 10,000 cases a day). The home recovery route is also a bit of a farce, since they automatically deem that you are no longer infectious on the 6th day of first showing ART-positive (even if you are still ART-positive at that stage).

PCR testing only seems expensive in Singapore.

During my last stay in Europe PCR tests were at a level of around 40 to 50 Euros (approx 60 to 75 S$) for a 12 hour to 24 test result.

I assume for Singapore there is a lack of laboratories to do the PCR tests and that is the real reason why they remain that expensive.

But the government could set up laboratory centers by using soldiers to handle a bigger amount of tests.

In plenty of European countries, the army has taken over certain management and organisational functions to assist in these Covid management issues.

(Here they did contract tracing but nothing other)

The second thing here is that "certain" clinics operate in testing functions...

From competition laws that is a bit unfair to other medical companies.

From European competition laws that would be disallowed.

singalion · February 6, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 2:22 AM, sgmaven said:

Also, I believe that more rigorous contact-tracing should have been implemented (at the start of the wave - a bit too late now that we have more than 10,000 cases a day).

But it requires huge manpower sources to do efficient contract tracing.

Sure, you can re-arrange civil servants from their original tasks to do contract tracing instead, but then government functionality is challenged. Singapore is already running on a lean public sector management policy.

Even after 10 months following the lockdown certain authorities apologised that they only responded extremely late.

I m not sure how much might be automated from the Trace Together. But from my personal experience there are still people behind the systems.

What I found interesting from one positive case was that the persons flatmates had even after 7 days not received any Health Risk Warning. There seem to be flaws in the system. (The owner rented out two rooms and I don't think they switch off their bluetooth at home).

The best means to counter is to stay at home as much as you can and to interact as little as possible with other people to bridge the surge of infections. There are also plenty of 24/7 Fairprice supermarkets, just go after midnight and the have all the space for your without any queues for fresh grocery.

it will probably take 1 - 2 months until numbers are down again.

Let's see if the infection rate will go down and it really was "just a backlog" ...

singalion · February 6, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 9:15 AM, Guest Wtf said:

A sensible next step would be to simplify many of the Covid regulations and protocols that have been added to and added to over the last two years.

That would be?

The issue for you is that your starting point is always that Covid is past tense and Omicron less severe than Alpha and Delta. Further, you confuse Covid-19 with an influenza.

An Ex US president did the same error and you can see very well where that ended.

If the medical experts had seen it similar they had proposed already to scrap all Covid regulations.

Change may come once the Omicron wave has passed.

February 6, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 9:15 AM, Guest Wtf said:

I would take a different approach with an endemic virus but your points are fair enough.

I would say, though, it seems like there are issues coming from the fact that too many things like the recovery protocols, whether you need a certificate of recovery (and what for), when to test, are just too complicated and are treating Covid so differently to other infectious diseases with similar severity This is causing more work for the health care system and some issues with compliance and understanding from people of what it means to be positive and also with society in general realizing that Covid is endemic.

A sensible next step would be to simplify many of the Covid regulations and protocols that have been added to and added to over the last two years.

Long story short: someone here just want all regulations and protocols to be completely removed, until even the wayang ones are also taken out, so that there will be free movement of anyone and everyone everywhere, to the extent that the entire Singapore can become even more crowded than how it was pre-covid.

But he is just trying to be politically correct by using the words "simplify many of the Covid regulations and protocols". That'd be good for his business.

Right?

February 6, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 6:28 PM, singalion said:

That would be?

The issue for you is that your starting point is always that Covid is past tense and Omicron less severe than Alpha and Delta. Further, you confuse Covid-19 with an influenza.

An Ex US president did the same error and you can see very well where that ended.

If the medical experts had seen it similar they had proposed already to scrap all Covid regulations.

Change may come once the Omicron wave has passed.

Oh look, experts suggest it is time to look at easing restrictions. Do try and keep up with the 2022 situation:

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/singapore-in-strong-position-to-ease-restrictions-further-experts

February 6, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 6:39 PM, Guest Guest said:

Long story short: someone here just want all regulations and protocols to be completely removed, until even the wayang ones are also taken out, so that there will be free movement of anyone and everyone everywhere, to the extent that the entire Singapore can become even more crowded than how it was pre-covid.

But he is just trying to be politically correct by using the words "simplify many of the Covid regulations and protocols". That'd be good for his business.

Right?

➡️
↔️
⬅️

singalion · February 6, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 7:31 PM, Guest Wtf said:

Oh look, experts suggest it is time to look at easing restrictions. Do try and keep up with the 2022 situation:

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/singapore-in-strong-position-to-ease-restrictions-further-experts

Ok, one expert suggests opening more VTL and to open parks for outdoor activities.

Hm, so you don't have any own thoughts.

Looks like you only can reproduce what others say in the Straits Times.

There is no need to tell me to keep up. I assume I more up to date than you. At least I also look what happens outside of Singapore...

February 6, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 7:31 PM, Guest Wtf said:

Oh look, experts suggest it is time to look at easing restrictions. Do try and keep up with the 2022 situation:

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/singapore-in-strong-position-to-ease-restrictions-further-experts

Did you even read the complete article?

This is what Prof Leo Yee Sin said, she is executive director of NCID. She knows about COVID-19 more than any other so-called expert

Unvaccinated still at risk

But Prof Leo Yee Sin, executive director of the National Centre for Infectious Diseases (NCID), took the opposite view, urging for more measures rather than fewer since there are still vulnerable people here who remain unvaccinated.

Prof Leo suggested there might be a need "to heighten rather than do away with measures" that have proven effective.

This could include reducing the number of people gathering. While vaccination provides the best protection, safe management measures have their value, she argued.

She said that while mild, Omicron still poses risks to those unvaccinated. In Singapore, this includes those eligible but not vaccinated, children between five and 12 years of age who are currently undergoing Covid-19 vaccination, and those below five years old.

February 6, 2022

With more than 10k cases for two straight days, what we need is stricter measures to control the outbreak and protect the vulnerable. The economy can wait, saving lives should have a higher priority.

February 6, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 9:42 PM, singalion said:

Ok, one expert suggests opening more VTL and to open parks for outdoor activities.

Hm, so you don't have any own thoughts.

Looks like you only can reproduce what others say in the Straits Times.

There is no need to tell me to keep up. I assume I more up to date than you. At least I also look what happens outside of Singapore...

On 2/6/2022 at 9:46 PM, Guest Guest said:

Did you even read the complete article?

This is what Prof Leo Yee Sin said, she is executive director of NCID. She knows about COVID-19 more than any other so-called expert

Unvaccinated still at risk

But Prof Leo Yee Sin, executive director of the National Centre for Infectious Diseases (NCID), took the opposite view, urging for more measures rather than fewer since there are still vulnerable people here who remain unvaccinated.

Prof Leo suggested there might be a need "to heighten rather than do away with measures" that have proven effective.

This could include reducing the number of people gathering. While vaccination provides the best protection, safe management measures have their value, she argued.

She said that while mild, Omicron still poses risks to those unvaccinated. In Singapore, this includes those eligible but not vaccinated, children between five and 12 years of age who are currently undergoing Covid-19 vaccination, and those below five years old.

as you both seem to have problems with comprehension, I’ll paste from the article directly here too:

“WHO officials added that it was premature for countries to declare victory over Covid-19, or rush to treat the disease as being in an endemic or end state.

But Associate Professor Hsu Li Yang, an infectious diseases expert at the National University of Singapore Saw Swee Hock School of Public Health, argued that this latest advisory did not apply to Singapore.

He said: "WHO's advice does not apply to us at all, since I think we are all agreed that we will not remove every last measure and return to a pre-Covid-19 state."

Professor Teo Yik Ying, dean of the school, added that "with high vaccination uptake, as well as a resilient and well-prepared healthcare system, Singapore is well placed to relax its measures to continue on the trajectory to live with Covid-19".

Local experts generally felt that measures that are no longer needed include restrictions on the number of people participating in outdoor activities, and even the wearing of masks outdoors.”

“With the rapid spread of the Omicron variant, contact tracing no longer adds much value, especially since people can spread the disease while asymptomatic, they added.

Prof Teo suggested allowing more travellers to come in through vaccinated travel lanes (VTLs) and increasing group sizes from the current five.

On community restrictions, he said: "I do not see the need to continue to forbid the use of parks and open spaces for outdoor activities such as camping and barbecues. Schools are gradually permitting CCAs (co-curricular activities) to resume, and I expect this can be accelerated, especially with paediatric vaccinations gaining momentum."

Prof Paul Tambyah, a senior infectious diseases consultant at the National University Hospital, suggested easing measures that have the most human costs, such as limitations on household visits.”

“Associate Professor David Allen, an infectious diseases expert at NUS, said that Singapore's high vaccination rate and safe management measures here will likely result in "a modest wave instead of a surge".

Associate Professor Alex Cook, an expert on infectious disease modelling, said: "Even though the Omicron peak is probably not upon us, I think we can roll back many of the measures in place. Especially the silly ones like blocking off half the wash basins in public toilets."

Looking at what is happening elsewhere, Prof Hsu said that data from Denmark, Norway and Britain have been reassuring. Although infection rates have risen dramatically, hospitalisations and deaths have not, particularly among fully vaccinated and boosted individuals.”

“This year, 31 people have died from Covid-19, fewer than the usual 50 or more deaths a month from influenza.

Prof Ooi Eng Eong, an emerging infectious diseases expert at the Duke-NUS Medical School, said that "the convergence in high rates of vaccine-induced protection as well as a less-virulent variant serves as a unique opportunity for us to implement plans to live with Covid-19".

It is this high protection level from vaccines (89 per cent of the population is fully vaccinated) and booster shots (59 per cent of the population) now that has resulted in a more muted wave of Omicron infections than in countries with lower vaccination rates.

They argued that delaying the easing of measures and missing the current window of opportunity may lead to a larger Omicron wave later as protection against infection wanes in those who received their booster shots early.

Even if more get Covid-19 with the easing of measures, their high antibody levels will likely mean they will be asymptomatic or have a very mild form of the disease, they said.”

who should people listen to: the majority of the experts, or a deranged guest troll, or a bw member whose position has flip-flopped while he struggles with maths, reading, international current affairs, and understanding that the Covid situation now is not the same as in 2021 or 2020? I think I’ll take the experts, thank you.

sgmaven · February 6, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 9:15 AM, Guest Wtf said:

A sensible next step would be to simplify many of the Covid regulations and protocols that have been added to and added to over the last two years.

Simplification of protocols is one thing, but letting cases slip into the community to infect others is another. While most people who are fully-vaccinated and boosted show relatively mild symptoms with the Omicron variant, do consider those who are immuno-compromised or are allergic to the vaccines. Do you expect to "lock them up" ala quarantine all the time?

I really think that the move towards self-administered ART tests is problematic. Many people don't even know how to do the test properly. Also, like I have previously pointed out, it can be up to a week after the appearance of symptoms that ART detects the virus. If the infected person does not isolate once he does not feel well (and I know many who will not), then many will be needlessly infected/exposed.

sgmaven · February 6, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 6:19 PM, singalion said:

But it requires huge manpower sources to do efficient contract tracing.

I think those "roving" social distancing ambassadors are better employed by doing contact tracing. Everyone has witnessed groups of them walking and chatting together...

However, like I said, contact tracing is a little difficult, now that there are more than 10,000 cases in the community. It should have been strictly adhered to when we still had a small number of cases - knowing how infectious the Omicron variant is.

February 7, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 10:15 PM, Guest Wtf said:

“With the rapid spread of the Omicron variant, contact tracing no longer adds much value, especially since people can spread the disease while asymptomatic, they added.

Prof Teo suggested allowing more travellers to come in through vaccinated travel lanes (VTLs) and increasing group sizes from the current five.

On community restrictions, he said: "I do not see the need to continue to forbid the use of parks and open spaces for outdoor activities such as camping and barbecues. Schools are gradually permitting CCAs (co-curricular activities) to resume, and I expect this can be accelerated, especially with paediatric vaccinations gaining momentum."

If not for the re-opening of the economy so rampantly, will the situation have gone so bad that "contact tracing no longer adds much value"?

This situation now is exactly how soldiers abandon their post simply because the fort has been overrun after ONE single person left the entire city gates open for the enemy to enter. This is akin to the time when Singapore was surrendered to the Japanese, and the Japanese came to cull all sitting ducks.

On 2/6/2022 at 10:15 PM, Guest Wtf said:

“Associate Professor David Allen, an infectious diseases expert at NUS, said that Singapore's high vaccination rate and safe management measures here will likely result in "a modest wave instead of a surge".

Associate Professor Alex Cook, an expert on infectious disease modelling, said: "Even though the Omicron peak is probably not upon us, I think we can roll back many of the measures in place. Especially the silly ones like blocking off half the wash basins in public toilets."

Looking at what is happening elsewhere, Prof Hsu said that data from Denmark, Norway and Britain have been reassuring. Although infection rates have risen dramatically, hospitalisations and deaths have not, particularly among fully vaccinated and boosted individuals.”

So, an Omicron "surge" is not OK but a "modest wave" is OK?? Wow .. Singaporean lives sure comes cheap now. And somebody sure sounds so mature complaining about "blocking off half the wash basins in public toilets"..

On 2/6/2022 at 10:15 PM, Guest Wtf said:

“This year, 31 people have died from Covid-19, fewer than the usual 50 or more deaths a month from influenza.

Prof Ooi Eng Eong, an emerging infectious diseases expert at the Duke-NUS Medical School, said that "the convergence in high rates of vaccine-induced protection as well as a less-virulent variant serves as a unique opportunity for us to implement plans to live with Covid-19".

"50 or more deaths a month from influenza"?? This means 600 deaths from influenza in a year. But yet, the latest data published by MOH (https://www.moh.gov.sg/resources-statistics/singapore-health-facts/principal-causes-of-death ) doesn't even show influenza on this list. Even if you are to stretch influenza into the 1.4% category of 21,446 "Chronic obstructive lung diseases", it is still far less than this "50 or more deaths a month from influenza".

So much for believing in your EXPERTS! Hahaha! Looks to me that people will tell and repeat lies, just to suit your narrative! You got a problem with the numbers, go blame it on MOH. Oh... of course my mathematics may be wrong in the eyes of the some supreme mathematician John-Nash-wannabe. LOL!

Principal Causes of Death

		2017	2018	2019
Total No. of Deaths		20,905	21,282	21,446
% of Total Deaths
1.	Cancer [ ICD10 : C00-C97 ]	29.1	28.8	28.4
2.	Pneumonia [ ICD10 : J12-J18 ]	20.1	20.6	20.7
3.	Ischaemic heart diseases [ ICD10 : I20-I25 ]	18.5	18.1	18.8
4.	Cerebrovascular diseases (including stroke) [ ICD10 : I60-I69 ]	6.3	6.0	5.8
5.	External causes of morbidity and mortality [ ICD10 : V01-Y89 ]	4.0	4.3	4.0
6.	Nephritis, nephrotic sydrome & nephrosis [ ICD10 : N00-N07, N17-N19, N25-N27]	2.4	3.0	3.1
7.	Hypertensive diseases (including hypertensive heart disease) [ ICD10 : I10-I15 ]	3.4	3.0	2.6
8.	Urinary tract infection [ ICD10 :N39.0]	1.9	2.0	2.3
9.	Other heart diseases [ ICD10 : I00-I09, I26-I51]	1.9	2.1	2.0
10.	Chronic obstructive lung diseases [ ICD10 : J40-J44 ]	1.5	1.3	1.4

February 7, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 11:16 PM, sgmaven said:

Simplification of protocols is one thing, but letting cases slip into the community to infect others is another. While most people who are fully-vaccinated and boosted show relatively mild symptoms with the Omicron variant, do consider those who are immuno-compromised or are allergic to the vaccines. Do you expect to "lock them up" ala quarantine all the time?

I really think that the move towards self-administered ART tests is problematic. Many people don't even know how to do the test properly. Also, like I have previously pointed out, it can be up to a week after the appearance of symptoms that ART detects the virus. If the infected person does not isolate once he does not feel well (and I know many who will not), then many will be needlessly infected/exposed.

I see your point about those with compromised immune systems and those who are allergic to vaccines (which is an incredibly small number of people) but these people are also vulnerable to many other viral and bacterial infections. What did these people do pre-covid? And how should the needs of these people be handled and what is the right balance between their needs and an acceptable level of risk to bear for normal life to continue for the majority of society?

The answer can never please everybody, so somewhere a balance has to be struck, especially with a now endemic virus.

February 7, 2022

On 2/7/2022 at 9:43 AM, Guest Guest said:

If not for the re-opening of the economy so rampantly, will the situation have gone so bad that "contact tracing no longer adds much value"?

This situation now is exactly how soldiers abandon their post simply because the fort has been overrun after ONE single person left the entire city gates open for the enemy to enter. This is akin to the time when Singapore was surrendered to the Japanese, and the Japanese came to cull all sitting ducks.

So, an Omicron "surge" is not OK but a "modest wave" is OK?? Wow .. Singaporean lives sure comes cheap now. And somebody sure sounds so mature complaining about "blocking off half the wash basins in public toilets"..

"50 or more deaths a month from influenza"?? This means 600 deaths from influenza in a year. But yet, the latest data published by MOH (https://www.moh.gov.sg/resources-statistics/singapore-health-facts/principal-causes-of-death ) doesn't even show influenza on this list. Even if you are to stretch influenza into the 1.4% category of 21,446 "Chronic obstructive lung diseases", it is still far less than this "50 or more deaths a month from influenza".

So much for believing in your EXPERTS! Hahaha! Looks to me that people will tell and repeat lies, just to suit your narrative! You got a problem with the numbers, go blame it on MOH. Oh... of course my mathematics may be wrong in the eyes of the some supreme mathematician John-Nash-wannabe. LOL!

Principal Causes of Death

2017 2018 2019

Total No. of Deaths 20,905 21,282 21,446

% of Total Deaths

1. Cancer
[ ICD10 : C00-C97 ] 29.1 28.8 28.4

2. Pneumonia
[ ICD10 : J12-J18 ] 20.1 20.6 20.7

3. Ischaemic heart diseases
[ ICD10 : I20-I25 ] 18.5 18.1 18.8

4. Cerebrovascular diseases (including stroke)
[ ICD10 : I60-I69 ] 6.3 6.0 5.8

5. External causes of morbidity and mortality
[ ICD10 : V01-Y89 ] 4.0 4.3 4.0

6. Nephritis, nephrotic sydrome & nephrosis
[ ICD10 : N00-N07, N17-N19, N25-N27] 2.4 3.0 3.1

7. Hypertensive diseases (including hypertensive heart disease)
[ ICD10 : I10-I15 ] 3.4 3.0 2.6

8. Urinary tract infection
[ ICD10 :N39.0] 1.9 2.0 2.3

9. Other heart diseases
[ ICD10 : I00-I09, I26-I51] 1.9 2.1 2.0

10. Chronic obstructive lung diseases
[ ICD10 : J40-J44 ] 1.5 1.3 1.4

the flu deaths are part of the pneumonia count… 🤦‍♂️

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/spore-could-see-2000-covid-19-deaths-yearly-govt-using-vaccines-boosters-to-stem

February 7, 2022

On 2/7/2022 at 9:54 AM, Guest Wtf said:

the flu deaths are part of the pneumonia count… 🤦‍♂️

WHAT? " flu deaths are part of the pneumonia count"?? Where did you get that from??

While you are at it, you might as well classify flu deaths under cancer too! You really have NO clue what you are talking about, do you? First, it was undermining the COVID deaths. And now, the type of lies you can come up with, just to fit your narratives. How much lower can you sink?

February 7, 2022

On 2/7/2022 at 11:02 AM, Guest Guest said:

WHAT? " flu deaths are part of the pneumonia count"?? Where did you get that from??

While you are at it, you might as well classify flu deaths under cancer too! You really have NO clue what you are talking about, do you? First, it was undermining the COVID deaths. And now, the type of lies you can come up with, just to fit your narratives. How much lower can you sink?

It’s quite clear who has no clue unfortunately but rather than ranting and raving, just read the link I posted, where it is clearly stated. Here, I will make it even easier for you by pasting directly:

“Every year, before the pandemic, about 4,000 patients would die as a result of influenza, viral pneumonia and other respiratory diseases.

Responding to queries from The Straits Times, the Ministry of Health said there were 4,153 deaths from pneumonia and influenza in 2020. This compares with 4,442 such deaths in 2019, 4,387 in 2018, 4,216 in 2017 and 3,856 in 2016.”

if you want to challenge the classification or number, take it up with MOH.

February 7, 2022

On 2/7/2022 at 11:18 AM, Guest Wtf said:

It’s quite clear who has no clue unfortunately but rather than ranting and raving, just read the link I posted, where it is clearly stated. Here, I will make it even easier for you by pasting directly:

“Every year, before the pandemic, about 4,000 patients would die as a result of influenza, viral pneumonia and other respiratory diseases.

Responding to queries from The Straits Times, the Ministry of Health said there were 4,153 deaths from pneumonia and influenza in 2020. This compares with 4,442 such deaths in 2019, 4,387 in 2018, 4,216 in 2017 and 3,856 in 2016.”

if you want to challenge the classification or number, take it up with MOH.

Yes, it said "4,000 patients would die as a result of influenza, viral pneumonia and other respiratory diseases". But where did it say "flu deaths are part of the pneumonia count" in the MOH data?

And since you are so good at twisting the truths, why don't you further stretch your lie and add on to say that "every year, before the pandemic, about 4,000 patients would die as a result of influenza, viral pneumonia and other respiratory diseases, of which 3999 of them are due to influenza"??

So, one more time, where did ever say that there is "50 or more deaths a month from influenza"?

Thank you once again on your show of how far you will stretch and twist the truths and data, just so that it can fit your narrative.

February 7, 2022

On 2/7/2022 at 1:27 PM, Guest Guest said:

Yes, it said "4,000 patients would die as a result of influenza, viral pneumonia and other respiratory diseases". But where did it say "flu deaths are part of the pneumonia count" in the MOH data?

And since you are so good at twisting the truths, why don't you further stretch your lie and add on to say that "every year, before the pandemic, about 4,000 patients would die as a result of influenza, viral pneumonia and other respiratory diseases, of which 3999 of them are due to influenza"??

So, one more time, where did ever say that there is "50 or more deaths a month from influenza"?

Thank you once again on your show of how far you will stretch and twist the truths and data, just so that it can fit your narrative.

Er, the roughly fifty flu deaths per month is a direct quote from the Straits Times article. I have also previously shared these links which quote similar figures:

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/singapore-prepares-long-term-life-death-with-covid-19-2021-08-17/

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/more-anxious-covid-19-deaths-flu-dengue-endemic-2251616

At this point, you are just embarrassing yourself with these replies of yours that show your lack of comprehension and your inability to accept that you are wrong on this.

singalion · February 7, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 10:15 PM, Guest Wtf said:

as you both seem to have problems with comprehension, I’ll paste from the article directly here too:

I don't have any comprehension issues.

On 2/6/2022 at 9:42 PM, singalion said:

Ok, one expert suggests opening more VTL and to open parks for outdoor activities.

Hm, so you don't have any own thoughts.

Looks like you only can reproduce what others say in the Straits Times.

There is no need to tell me to keep up. I assume I more up to date than you. At least I also look what happens outside of Singapore...

I summarised the main proposals above:

Here you have a summary of the easing measures proposed:

Local experts generally felt that measures that are no longer needed include restrictions on the number of people participating in outdoor activities, and even the wearing of masks outdoors.”

“With the rapid spread of the Omicron variant, contact tracing no longer adds much value, especially since people can spread the disease while asymptomatic, they added.

Prof Teo suggested allowing more travellers to come in through vaccinated travel lanes (VTLs) and increasing group sizes from the current five.

On community restrictions, he said: "I do not see the need to continue to forbid the use of parks and open spaces for outdoor activities such as camping and barbecues. Schools are gradually permitting CCAs (co-curricular activities) to resume, and I expect this can be accelerated, especially with paediatric vaccinations gaining momentum."

Prof Paul Tambyah, a senior infectious diseases consultant at the National University Hospital, suggested easing measures that have the most human costs, such as limitations on household visits.”

=>

The measures are all marginal.

The proposal or relaxing mask wearing outdoors the article did not indicate who's expert opinion this was.

If your only aim at BW, while hiding behind a Guest profile is trying at every corner to ridicule people, then there is no need to discuss anything with you here at all.

What you do here is just parroting some news published in local media.

Everyone can do that.

But while just repeating what you read on newspaper articles you are not reviewing the proposal with what is really happening or intellectually looking through the issues.

Second, you totally forget the function and background of media in Singapore.

I see the article as something the sort of "We see a silver lining", easing restrictions will come in the nearer future...stay cool, ..." Surely, someone needs to look at the necessity of some of the restrictions and regulations.

However, what you ignore is: There is also conclusive evidence from other countries with similar vaccination rates as Singapore (or even better one's) that Omicron still hits on certain age groups with a different impact than the 5 - 50 year olds (and not comparable to influenza).

singalion · February 7, 2022

On 2/7/2022 at 11:18 AM, Guest Wtf said:

It’s quite clear who has no clue unfortunately but rather than ranting and raving, just read the link I posted, where it is clearly stated. Here, I will make it even easier for you by pasting directly:

“Every year, before the pandemic, about 4,000 patients would die as a result of influenza, viral pneumonia and other respiratory diseases.

Responding to queries from The Straits Times, the Ministry of Health said there were 4,153 deaths from pneumonia and influenza in 2020. This compares with 4,442 such deaths in 2019, 4,387 in 2018, 4,216 in 2017 and 3,856 in 2016.”

if you want to challenge the classification or number, take it up with MOH.

Please note that pneumonia must not be influenza related.

There are various other diseases causing pneumonia.

Heart issues can cause pneumonia and other factors.

Someone here always argued not to compare apples with oranges. ...

The numbers won't break down what the cause of death by pneumonia was!

And here starts the problem.

Pneumonia

Causes

Many germs can cause pneumonia. The most common are bacteria and viruses in the air we breathe. Your body usually prevents these germs from infecting your lungs. But sometimes these germs can overpower your immune system, even if your health is generally good.

Pneumonia is classified according to the types of germs that cause it and where you got the infection.

Community-acquired pneumonia

Community-acquired pneumonia is the most common type of pneumonia. It occurs outside of hospitals or other health care facilities. It may be caused by:

Bacteria. The most common cause of bacterial pneumonia in the U.S. is Streptococcus pneumoniae. This type of pneumonia can occur on its own or after you've had a cold or the flu. It may affect one part (lobe) of the lung, a condition called lobar pneumonia.
Bacteria-like organisms. Mycoplasma pneumoniae also can cause pneumonia. It typically produces milder symptoms than do other types of pneumonia. Walking pneumonia is an informal name given to this type of pneumonia, which typically isn't severe enough to require bed rest.
Fungi. This type of pneumonia is most common in people with chronic health problems or weakened immune systems, and in people who have inhaled large doses of the organisms. The fungi that cause it can be found in soil or bird droppings and vary depending upon geographic location.
Viruses, including COVID-19. Some of the viruses that cause colds and the flu can cause pneumonia. Viruses are the most common cause of pneumonia in children younger than 5 years. Viral pneumonia is usually mild. But in some cases it can become very serious. Coronavirus 2019 (COVID-19) may cause pneumonia, which can become severe.

Hospital-acquired pneumonia

Some people catch pneumonia during a hospital stay for another illness. Hospital-acquired pneumonia can be serious because the bacteria causing it may be more resistant to antibiotics and because the people who get it are already sick. People who are on breathing machines (ventilators), often used in intensive care units, are at higher risk of this type of pneumonia.

Health care-acquired pneumonia

Health care-acquired pneumonia is a bacterial infection that occurs in people who live in long-term care facilities or who receive care in outpatient clinics, including kidney dialysis centers. Like hospital-acquired pneumonia, health care-acquired pneumonia can be caused by bacteria that are more resistant to antibiotics.

Aspiration pneumonia

Aspiration pneumonia occurs when you inhale food, drink, vomit or saliva into your lungs. Aspiration is more likely if something disturbs your normal gag reflex, such as a brain injury or swallowing problem, or excessive use of alcohol or drugs.

Risk factors

Pneumonia can affect anyone. But the two age groups at highest risk are:

Children who are 2 years old or younger
People who are age 65 or older

Other risk factors include:

Being hospitalized. You're at greater risk of pneumonia if you're in a hospital intensive care unit, especially if you're on a machine that helps you breathe (a ventilator).
Chronic disease. You're more likely to get pneumonia if you have asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) or heart disease.
Smoking. Smoking damages your body's natural defenses against the bacteria and viruses that cause pneumonia.
Weakened or suppressed immune system. People who have HIV/AIDS, who've had an organ transplant, or who receive chemotherapy or long-term steroids are at risk.

singalion · February 7, 2022

On 2/6/2022 at 10:15 PM, Guest Wtf said:

who should people listen to: the majority of the experts, or a deranged guest troll, or a bw member whose position has flip-flopped while he struggles with maths, reading, international current affairs, and understanding that the Covid situation now is not the same as in 2021 or 2020? I think I’ll take the experts, thank you.

Yes, I prefer to take the experts...

The Scientist

How Mild Is Omicron Really?

Early reports that Omicron causes less-severe disease than Delta seem to be borne out, but it’s not yet clear to what extent that’s due to the variant itself versus the populations it’s infecting.

Jan 14, 2022

Oversimplified narrative

A now-famous report from Imperial College London published on December 22 found that COVID-19 patients infected with Omicron had a 20 to 25 percent reduced risk of hospitalization compared to those with Delta, and a 40 to 45 percent reduced risk of a hospital stay that lasted one or more days—which the researchers used as an indicator of severe cases.

That discovery helped fuel a narrative, popular in the media, that Omicron is mild. But Omicron was first detected in South Africa, a country with a relatively young population of people who are largely either vaccinated, already recovered from COVID-19, or both. That made it hard, experts tell The Scientist, to tell whether Omicron’s severity was really a step back from Delta’s, or if, instead, any new variant emerging this late into the pandemic would seem less severe due to the acquired immunity and clinical knowledge that’s built up over time.

Researchers who spoke to The Scientist tentatively agreed, with varying amounts of confidence, that Omicron is in fact causing relatively fewer cases of severe disease than the Delta variant—a conclusion that’s been supported by several different preprint reports. But varied levels of vaccination, hospital capacity, and other population-level factors across different countries and regions complicate the situation.

The reports from South Africa about a milder course are not necessarily applicable to patients with chronic conditions and the immunocompromised.

—Sandra Ciesek, The German Center for Infection Research

“I still think that the single biggest factor causing that lower per-case severity is likely to be widespread immunity among the majority of those who are infected, with slightly lower intrinsic severity of the virus a likely additional factor,” Roby Bhattacharyya, an infectious disease expert at Massachusetts General Hospital and the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard, tells The Scientist over email. “But I still think this gets conflated in most popular messaging—understandably, since it’s pretty nuanced—such that most people walk away saying ‘Omicron is milder’ when I think the truth is, any SARS-CoV-2 virus infecting this mix of people would look milder.”

In short, factors such as vaccination may have blunted Omicron’s blow, making it seem less severe than the variants that emerged before COVID-19 vaccines were widely deployed. That means that the Omicron variant shouldn’t be underestimated—a point recently underlined by World Health Organization Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, who on January 6 said that it’s more appropriate to say Omicron is “less severe” than other variants than to call it “mild.”

“Just like previous [COVID-19] variants, Omicron is hospitalizing people and it is killing people,” Tedros added.

With so much pre-existing immunity to SARS-CoV-2, we won’t know whether and to what extent Omicron is truly milder than previous variants “until we have big enough numbers on the truly unvaccinated,” says Sumit Chanda, an infectious disease expert at the Sanford-Burnham Medical Research Institute who’s worked on COVID-19 therapeutics.

Those who don’t have any prior immunity—whether that’s because they haven’t been vaccinated or infected or as a result of having disabilities, chronic illnesses, or conditions that leave them immunocompromised—are more likely to face severe symptoms and death as a result of an Omicron infection, researchers tell The Scientist.

“The reports from South Africa about a milder course are not necessarily applicable to patients with chronic conditions and the immunocompromised,” Sandra Ciesek, a virologist at Goethe University and the German Center for Infection Research, writes in an email to The Scientist. “I fear that, even with Omicron, we will see severe courses especially in these patient groups.”

Zoom out from the scale of an individual patient, and the sheer number of Omicron infections and especially reinfections means that Omicron must still be taken seriously. According to a preprint from December 2, Omicron carries a vastly increased risk of reinfection compared with previous SARS-CoV-2 variants.

“I think there’s genuine good news about both intrinsic severity appearing to be slightly lower and immunity holding decently well against severe disease, far better than it is against infection,” Bhattacharyya says. “I just find myself a bit concerned about the oversimplified narrative that ‘Omicron is milder,’ or even worse, ‘Omicron is mild.’ The nuance matters here, I think.”

Public health experts note that a somewhat less-severe but far-more-transmissible disease that still puts people in the hospital can lead to dire situations at healthcare facilities, which are already facing worker burnout, overcrowding, and shortages. This is already playing out in the US and elsewhere, where patients who need surgeries and other medical procedures are being forced to wait until there’s room.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/how-mild-is-omicron-really-69610

Edited February 7, 2022 by singalion

February 7, 2022

On 2/7/2022 at 1:43 PM, Guest Wtf said:

Er, the roughly fifty flu deaths per month is a direct quote from the Straits Times article. I have also previously shared these links which quote similar figures:

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/singapore-prepares-long-term-life-death-with-covid-19-2021-08-17/

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/more-anxious-covid-19-deaths-flu-dengue-endemic-2251616

At this point, you are just embarrassing yourself with these replies of yours that show your lack of comprehension and your inability to accept that you are wrong on this.

First and foremost, let's address this again: where did it say "flu deaths are part of the pneumonia count" in the MOH data?

Secondly, where did the ST get that "roughly fifty flu deaths per month" data from? Did they pluck it from the air? Did MOH list the data wrong? We all know that our media is ranking at #160 in terms of news freedom. But even then, let's just say that I am feeling gracious and I can even accept that the data is indeed real and "roughly fifty flu deaths per month" still outnumbers COVID-deaths right now. So do you want to wait till the 2000 yearly covid-deaths to happen? Or will you have new excuses to come up with during that time?

"Over time, the absolute number of deaths from Covid-19 will rise despite the best possible medical care, he noted, possibly resulting in 2,000 deaths per year."

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/spore-could-see-2000-covid-19-deaths-yearly-govt-using-vaccines-boosters-to-stem

At this point, you are just embarrassing yourself with these replies of yours that show your complete lack of humanity and your inability to be a decent human being.

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