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Covid Situation in SG discussion (compiled)


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On 2/7/2022 at 1:56 PM, singalion said:

 

Please note that pneumonia must not be influenza related.

There are various other diseases causing pneumonia.

 

Heart issues can cause pneumonia and other factors.

 

Someone here always argued not to compare apples with oranges. ...

 

The numbers won't break down what the cause of death by pneumonia was!

And here starts the problem.

 

 

 

Pneumonia

 

Causes

Many germs can cause pneumonia. The most common are bacteria and viruses in the air we breathe. Your body usually prevents these germs from infecting your lungs. But sometimes these germs can overpower your immune system, even if your health is generally good.

Pneumonia is classified according to the types of germs that cause it and where you got the infection.

Community-acquired pneumonia

Community-acquired pneumonia is the most common type of pneumonia. It occurs outside of hospitals or other health care facilities. It may be caused by:

  • Bacteria. The most common cause of bacterial pneumonia in the U.S. is Streptococcus pneumoniae. This type of pneumonia can occur on its own or after you've had a cold or the flu. It may affect one part (lobe) of the lung, a condition called lobar pneumonia.
  • Bacteria-like organisms. Mycoplasma pneumoniae also can cause pneumonia. It typically produces milder symptoms than do other types of pneumonia. Walking pneumonia is an informal name given to this type of pneumonia, which typically isn't severe enough to require bed rest.
  • Fungi. This type of pneumonia is most common in people with chronic health problems or weakened immune systems, and in people who have inhaled large doses of the organisms. The fungi that cause it can be found in soil or bird droppings and vary depending upon geographic location.
  • Viruses, including COVID-19. Some of the viruses that cause colds and the flu can cause pneumonia. Viruses are the most common cause of pneumonia in children younger than 5 years. Viral pneumonia is usually mild. But in some cases it can become very serious. Coronavirus 2019 (COVID-19) may cause pneumonia, which can become severe.

Hospital-acquired pneumonia

Some people catch pneumonia during a hospital stay for another illness. Hospital-acquired pneumonia can be serious because the bacteria causing it may be more resistant to antibiotics and because the people who get it are already sick. People who are on breathing machines (ventilators), often used in intensive care units, are at higher risk of this type of pneumonia.

Health care-acquired pneumonia

Health care-acquired pneumonia is a bacterial infection that occurs in people who live in long-term care facilities or who receive care in outpatient clinics, including kidney dialysis centers. Like hospital-acquired pneumonia, health care-acquired pneumonia can be caused by bacteria that are more resistant to antibiotics.

Aspiration pneumonia

Aspiration pneumonia occurs when you inhale food, drink, vomit or saliva into your lungs. Aspiration is more likely if something disturbs your normal gag reflex, such as a brain injury or swallowing problem, or excessive use of alcohol or drugs.

Risk factors

Pneumonia can affect anyone. But the two age groups at highest risk are:

  • Children who are 2 years old or younger
  • People who are age 65 or older

Other risk factors include:

  • Being hospitalized. You're at greater risk of pneumonia if you're in a hospital intensive care unit, especially if you're on a machine that helps you breathe (a ventilator).
  • Chronic disease. You're more likely to get pneumonia if you have asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) or heart disease.
  • Smoking. Smoking damages your body's natural defenses against the bacteria and viruses that cause pneumonia.
  • Weakened or suppressed immune system. People who have HIV/AIDS, who've had an organ transplant, or who receive chemotherapy or long-term steroids are at risk.

 

 

 

 

 

On 2/7/2022 at 2:09 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

First and foremost, let's address this again: where did it say "flu deaths are part of the pneumonia count" in the MOH data? 

 

Secondly, where did the ST get that "roughly fifty flu deaths per month" data from? Did they pluck it from the air? Did MOH list the data wrong? We all know that our media is ranking at #160 in terms of news freedom. But even then, let's just say that I am feeling gracious and I can even accept that the data is indeed real and "roughly fifty flu deaths per month" still outnumbers COVID-deaths right now. So do you want to wait till the 2000 yearly covid-deaths to happen? Or will you have new excuses to come up with during that time?

 

"Over time, the absolute number of deaths from Covid-19 will rise despite the best possible medical care, he noted, possibly resulting in 2,000 deaths per year."

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/spore-could-see-2000-covid-19-deaths-yearly-govt-using-vaccines-boosters-to-stem 

 

At this point, you are just embarrassing yourself with these replies of yours that show your complete lack of humanity and your inability to be a decent human being. 


why don’t both of you geniuses go and take it up with moh or the various ministers or experts quoted? Or the media that quotes the figures, including Reuters, which I am pretty sure is an international media organization last time I looked.

 

because you are seriously trying to tell me that both of you somehow know better than all of those people and organizations? By now, your combined lack of self awareness is just really embarrassing.  👋 

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On 2/6/2022 at 10:15 PM, Guest Wtf said:

who should people listen to: the majority of the experts, or a deranged guest troll, or a bw member whose position has flip-flopped while he struggles with maths, reading, international current affairs, and understanding that the Covid situation now is not the same as in 2021 or 2020? I think I’ll take the experts, thank you. 

 

I do not struggle with maths.

I calculated a reference by a percentage while it was the reference for 100,000 and corrected the numbers.

I corrected these figures in the initial post and gave notes to the initial post.

 

Further I NEVER flip flopped my position.

 

On 1/26/2022 at 9:38 AM, singalion said:

But there will be deaths by those refusing to get vaccinated. Most vulnerable those above 60y and all having certain medical conditions ( heart, diabetes etc). 

Get vaccinated asap. 

I feel empathy for those people cannot get vaccinated due to imunocompromised reasons. Hopefully their employers allow them to work from home. 

 

The Omicron wave is going through the whole world now. 

 

 

 

On 1/29/2022 at 1:12 AM, singalion said:

Comparing flu with Omicron or Delta is inappropriate if not irresponsible. 

Omicron is still a serious risk for unvaccinated people or such with medical conditions. 

Would goverments  recommend booster vaccinations if Omicron is harmless?

Please stay grounded. 

 

 

 

 

I never changed my position. From start I said Omicron is a danger for unvaccinated people and those with medical conditions and the elderly. I just placed the focus on the fact that Omicron is still a fetal risk for the more vulnerable.

 

You aggressively attack everyone at BW who challenges your posts.

 

 

I prefer to take an overall picture and not to simply focus on numbers in Singapore.

 

Australia, Denmark and other European countries give good leads on Omicron.

 

The death rate from Omicron is much higher than influenza (in particular for those above 50y or having medical conditions).

 

I am simply objecting to your repeated message here that Omicron is harmless and not posing any risk and your endless attempt to play down the impact of Omicron.

 

Anyhow I don't have much mood to argue with you any longer.

You are not interested in any discussion and seem quite just a stubborn "know it all".

 

It is your problem if you failed to see what my arguments and starting point were.

 

 

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 2:33 PM, singalion said:

 

I do not struggle with maths.

I calculated a reference by a percentage while it was the reference for 100,000 and corrected the numbers.

I corrected these figures in the initial post and gave notes to the initial post.

 

Further I NEVER flip flopped my position.

 

 

 

 

I never changed my position. From start I said Omicron is a danger for unvaccinated people and those with medical conditions and the elderly. I just placed the focus on the fact that Omicron is still a fetal risk for the more vulnerable.

 

You aggressively attack everyone at BW who challenges your posts.

 

 

I prefer to take an overall picture and not to simply focus on numbers in Singapore.

 

Australia, Denmark and other European countries give good leads on Omicron.

 

The death rate from Omicron is much higher than influenza (in particular for those above 50y or having medical conditions).

 

I am simply objecting to your repeated message here that Omicron is harmless and not posing any risk and your endless attempt to play down the impact of Omicron.

 

Anyhow I don't have much mood to argue with you any longer.

You are not interested in any discussion and seem quite just a stubborn "know it all".

 

It is your problem if you failed to see what my arguments and starting point were.

 

 

 


Please share a link or any evidence you have for this statement you make:

 

The death rate from Omicron is much higher than influenza (in particular for those above 50y or having medical conditions).

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On 2/7/2022 at 2:19 PM, Guest Wtf said:

 


why don’t both of you geniuses go and take it up with moh or the various ministers or experts quoted? Or the media that quotes the figures, including Reuters, which I am pretty sure is an international media organization last time I looked.

 

because you are seriously trying to tell me that both of you somehow know better than all of those people and organizations? By now, your combined lack of self awareness is just really embarrassing.  👋 

 

The last time I looked, WHO was much more than just an international media organization too. But yet there you are, trusting the "experts" rather than the World Health Organization? But yeah .... anything to fit your narrative, I suppose? 

 

On 2/6/2022 at 10:15 PM, Guest Wtf said:

as you both seem to have problems with comprehension, I’ll paste from the article directly here too:

 

“WHO officials added that it was premature for countries to declare victory over Covid-19, or rush to treat the disease as being in an endemic or end state.

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 2:19 PM, Guest Wtf said:

 


why don’t both of you geniuses go and take it up with moh or the various ministers or experts quoted? Or the media that quotes the figures, including Reuters, which I am pretty sure is an international media organization last time I looked.

 

because you are seriously trying to tell me that both of you somehow know better than all of those people and organizations? By now, your combined lack of self awareness is just really embarrassing.  👋 

 

I was only pointing to the fact that a person that died from pneumonia must not have been due to influenza.

 

As long as you don't have the data telling the exact cause that resulted in pneumonia, then it is not conclusive to take these numbers including pneumonia. We would need the exact breakdown.

 

Does the statistics and numbers tell you that these people who died from pneumonia it was a result of influenza or the other causes???

 

 

The only one embarrassing himself here is in fact you who needs to point to Reuters or a Minister quoting some numbers on people who died from influenza and pneumonia.

 

You just simply don't want to get the point.

 

 

 

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 2:52 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

 

The last time I looked, WHO was much more than just an international media organization too. But yet there you are, trusting the "experts" rather than the World Health Organization? But yeah .... anything to fit your narrative, I suppose? 

 

 


Could you be any more desperate in your straw clutching? It is clear the WHO is talking about tbe situation GLOBALLY - which includes many countries that unfortunately have very low vaccination rates - and not specifically the situation in Singapore. 
 

look, I know covid has been very difficult for you in terms of impact on mental health but unless you have got a new line of arguing or some specific facts or data to share, you should probably just take it easy now and have a rest from this thread. Go troll somewhere else. 

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On 2/7/2022 at 2:55 PM, singalion said:

 

I was only pointing to the fact that a person that died from pneumonia must not have been due to influenza.

 

As long as you don't have the data telling the exact cause that resulted in pneumonia, then it is not conclusive to take these numbers including pneumonia. We would need the exact breakdown.

 

Does the statistics and numbers tell you that these people who died from pneumonia it was a result of influenza or the other causes???

 

 

The only one embarrassing himself here is in fact you who needs to point to Reuters or a Minister quoting some numbers on people who died from influenza and pneumonia.

 

You just simply don't want to get the point.

 

 

 

 


another one desperately clutching at straws and losing any dignity they might once have had in the process.
 

How is it embarrassing to quote from Reuters or a minister as a data point? I know you like to make unsubstantiated claims with zero evidence but to say that someone who substantiates their points should be embarrassed about it makes literally zero sense. 
 

Anyway, like I said, go ask moh or the minister, I am sure they would love to have a discussion with you and guest guest about this. 

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On 2/7/2022 at 3:02 PM, Guest Wtf said:

another one desperately clutching at straws and losing any dignity they might once have had in the process.
 

How is it embarrassing to quote from Reuters or a minister as a data point?

 

Because the number from the Minister and the Reuters are not conclusive to the point you are trying to make here.

 

The number mentioned at the Reuters article you can just forget

Quote:

"That compares with about 800 flu-related deaths in a typical year, according to doctors, in the country with a population of 5.7 million."

 

"August 17, 2021

The only way to have no deaths from a disease anywhere in the world is to eliminate the disease altogether and that has only been done for smallpox," said Paul Tambyah, president of the Asia Pacific Society of Clinical Microbiology and Infection.

Singapore has reported only 44 COVID-19 deaths since the outbreak started in early January 2020. That compares with about 800 flu-related deaths in a typical year, according to doctors, in the country with a population of 5.7 million."

 

 

So you would rely on a media article that refers to numbers given by "doctors" to the journalist.

I wouldn't.

 

Minister: “Every year, before the pandemic, about 4,000 patients would die as a result of influenza, viral pneumonia and other respiratory diseases."

 

These numbers just list the total numbers of certain categorisations.

In order to compare the numbers you would need to know what underlying causes were.

Eg.: If a heart issue led to pneumonia it would not count in the influenza category.

 

It is common that such lung diseases are lumped into one category.

 

However you are comparing influenza with Covid-19/Omicron.

 

Tell us what is the number from the quoted for deaths for  influenza alone and pneumonia deaths  solely caused by influenza viruses (and not other conditions) !

 

 

Go ahead!

 

Then,  is the above number conclusive to compare Omicron with Influenza???

 

Surely not.

 

 

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 3:18 PM, singalion said:

 

Just wonder since when I am the one here to make "unsubstantiated claims with zero evidence" .

 

That should be new on BW.

 

 

Again, are you joking?
 

You say (and this is a direct quote from you): “The death rate from Omicron is much higher than influenza (inparticular for those above 50y or having medical conditions).”

 

where is your evidence for this? Do you have a single link or credible data source for this claim? 

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On 2/7/2022 at 3:35 PM, Guest Wtf said:

Again, are you joking?
 

You say (and this is a direct quote from you): “The death rate from Omicron is much higher than influenza (inparticular for those above 50y or having medical conditions).”

 

where is your evidence for this? Do you have a single link or credible data source for this claim? 

 

Yes, I gave it already.

But you ignored it the last days.

 

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 3:33 PM, singalion said:

 

Because the number from the Minister and the Reuters are not conclusive to the point you are trying to make here.

 

The number mentioned at the Reuters article you can just forget

Quote:

"That compares with about 800 flu-related deaths in a typical year, according to doctors, in the country with a population of 5.7 million."

 

So you would rely on a media article that refers to numbers given by "doctors" to the journalist.

 

Minister: “Every year, before the pandemic, about 4,000 patients would die as a result of influenza, viral pneumonia and other respiratory diseases."

 

These numbers just list the total numbers of certain categorisations.

In order to compare the numbers you would need to know what underlying causes were.

Eg.: If a heart issue led to pneumonia it would not count in the influenza category.

 

It is common that such lung diseases are lumped into one category.

 

However you are comparing influenza with Covid-19/Omicron.

 

Tell us what is the number from the quoted for deaths for  influenza alone and pneumonia deaths  solely caused by influenza viruses (and not other conditions) !

 

 

Go ahead!

 

Then,  is the above number conclusive to compare Omicron with Influenza???

 

Surely not.

 

 

 


oh my god, you don’t even know what you are asking for anymore. Do you want to now go back and calculate which covid deaths have been solely caused by covid too? Because you would need that figure as well to make a side by side comparison in the level of detail your straw-clutching is now at. 
 

what time does this circus end because you two clowns must be getting tired by now? 

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On 2/7/2022 at 3:38 PM, singalion said:

 

Yes, I gave it already.

But you ignored it the last days.

 

 


no. You did not provide it and if you had, you would simply re-paste it here. 

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On 2/7/2022 at 2:58 PM, Guest Wtf said:


Could you be any more desperate in your straw clutching? It is clear the WHO is talking about tbe situation GLOBALLY - which includes many countries that unfortunately have very low vaccination rates - and not specifically the situation in Singapore. 
 

look, I know covid has been very difficult for you in terms of impact on mental health but unless you have got a new line of arguing or some specific facts or data to share, you should probably just take it easy now and have a rest from this thread. Go troll somewhere else. 

 

First, you want to speak for MOH and claim that the pneumonia-death data include those who has sadly passed away from influenza. Now you want to speak for WHO to say that it is talking about the situation GLOBALLY but excluding countries with higher vaccination rates? Anybody else you want to (mis)represent here? 

 

And also, your belief that WHO statement excludes highly-vaccinated nations, simply shows us again that you believe "vaccine gives us superpowers" and how far you will go to undermine the COVID situation. Do you have these stickers pasted on your laptop as well? 

 

May be an image of 2 people

 

May be an image of text that says 'superpower It gives you to fight COVID Do you know COVID virus! why vaccine good for you? P8 VACCINATION @minmedgroup'

 

Look, I know covid has been very difficult for you in terms of impact on your economic wealth and hence your mental health. But unless you have got a new line of arguing or some specific facts or data to share, you should probably just take it easy now and have a rest from this thread. Go troll somewhere else. 

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On 2/7/2022 at 3:49 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

 

First, you want to speak for MOH and claim that the pneumonia-death data include those who has sadly passed away from influenza. Now you want to speak for WHO to say that it is talking about the situation GLOBALLY but excluding countries with higher vaccination rates? Anybody else you want to (mis)represent here? 

 

And also, your belief that WHO statement excludes highly-vaccinated nations, simply shows us again that you believe "vaccine gives us superpowers" and how far you will go to undermine the COVID situation. Do you have these stickers pasted on your laptop as well? 

 

May be an image of 2 people

 

May be an image of text that says 'superpower It gives you to fight COVID Do you know COVID virus! why vaccine good for you? P8 VACCINATION @minmedgroup'

 

Look, I know covid has been very difficult for you in terms of impact on your economic wealth and hence your mental health. But unless you have got a new line of arguing or some specific facts or data to share, you should probably just take it easy now and have a rest from this thread. Go troll somewhere else. 


That’s your argument? Photos of stickers?! Hahahahhaahahaha

 

you and @singalion make quite the pair! 
 

🤣 👋 

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On 2/7/2022 at 3:49 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

 

First, you want to speak for MOH and claim that the pneumonia-death data include those who has sadly passed away from influenza. Now you want to speak for WHO to say that it is talking about the situation GLOBALLY but excluding countries with higher vaccination rates? Anybody else you want to (mis)represent here? 

 

And also, your belief that WHO statement excludes highly-vaccinated nations, simply shows us again that you believe "vaccine gives us superpowers" and how far you will go to undermine the COVID situation. Do you have these stickers pasted on your laptop as well? 

 

May be an image of 2 people

 

May be an image of text that says 'superpower It gives you to fight COVID Do you know COVID virus! why vaccine good for you? P8 VACCINATION @minmedgroup'

 

Look, I know covid has been very difficult for you in terms of impact on your economic wealth and hence your mental health. But unless you have got a new line of arguing or some specific facts or data to share, you should probably just take it easy now and have a rest from this thread. Go troll somewhere else. 


IT IS THE MINISTER WHO CLAMED IT, YOU TOTAL FUCKING MORON.

 

🤡 

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 3:40 PM, Guest Wtf said:


oh my god, you don’t even know what you are asking for anymore. Do you want to now go back and calculate which covid deaths have been solely caused by covid too? Because you would need that figure as well to make a side by side comparison in the level of detail your straw-clutching is now at. 
 

what time does this circus end because you two clowns must be getting tired by now? 

 

Digression.

Simply digression.

 

You were the one making unsubstantiated claims on comparing Covid with influenza.

 

I know very well what I am asking for.

 

The result is that you can just ignore the number you stated in your post, because it is not conclusive to compare the numbers or to refer it to influenza and Omicron. 

 

As such the point you tried to make was irrelevant.

 

Secondly giving a yearly range from 800 to 4,500 seems persuasive???

From that point you could have already guessed that the numbers seem inconclusive.

 

 

I leave it to the BW readers to verify who is "clownesque" here.

 

Also I do not need to hide behind as a Guest on BW.

 

 

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 3:58 PM, singalion said:

 

Digression.

Simply digression.

 

You were the one making unsubstantiated claims on comparing Covid with influenza.

 

I know very well what I am asking for.

 

The result is that you can just ignore the number you stated in your post, because it is not conclusive to compare the numbers or to refer it to influenza and Omicron. 

 

As such the point you tried to make was irrelevant.

 

Secondly giving a yearly range from 800 to 4,500 seems persuasive???

From that point you could have already guessed that the numbers seem inconclusive.

 

 

I leave it to the BW readers to verify who is "clownesque" here.

 

Also I do not need to hide behind as a Guest on BW.

 

 

 


i very much doubt anybody else is reading your posts tbh. But, indeed, everyone can decide for themselves if my links to facts and figures from moh, ministers and international media sources are more reliable than whatever totally unsubstantiated claims you are making.

 

I believe that the rabid guest guest believes you, so at least that’s a start. Although you might want to consider whether that’s the type of company you really want to keep. 

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On 2/7/2022 at 3:57 PM, Guest Wtf said:


IT IS THE MINISTER WHO CLAMED IT, YOU TOTAL FUCKING MORON.

 

🤡

 

 

Wow... so it is now "THE MINISTER WHO CLAMED IT"?

 

And please tell me, which minister claim that the pneumonia-death data from MOH include those who has sadly passed away from influenza? Which minister claimed that WHO was talking about the situation GLOBALLY but excluding countries with higher vaccination rates? Are you going to quote me the Bible ad claimed that God said something in the same context too? 

 

PLEASE! We are already well-aware how far you are willing to go to propagate your lies, you know? You don't have to go any further to prove it to us. 

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On 2/7/2022 at 3:58 PM, singalion said:

Digression. Simply digression.

You were the one making unsubstantiated claims on comparing Covid with influenza.

I leave it to the BW readers to verify who is "clownesque" here. Also I do not need to hide behind as a Guest on BW.

 

 

 

On 2/7/2022 at 4:08 PM, Guest Wtf said:

i very much doubt anybody else is reading your posts tbh. But, indeed, everyone can decide for themselves if my links to facts and figures from moh, ministers and international media sources are more reliable than whatever totally unsubstantiated claims you are making.

 

I believe that the rabid guest guest believes you, so at least that’s a start. Although you might want to consider whether that’s the type of company you really want to keep. 

 

Unsubstantiated claims with zero evidence. hm...

As if I am the one posting "unsubstantiated claims" at BW.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/2022/jan/21/australia-has-had-its-deadliest-day-yet-covid-omicron-heres-what-we-know-about-who-is-dying

 

The graphics unfortunately cannot be transferred to BW.

 

Scroll down to the  graphic named.

 

Current wave cases and deaths per 100k in each age group

 

You can see that the data up to 21 jan, the fetal rates per 100,000 for the age groups and covers Omicron

50 to 59 is 1.34

60 to 69 is 2.92

70 - 79 is 11.71

80-89 is 35.19

Above 90 is 99.85

 

This in reference to a general vaccination rate (2 doses) at 90% and booster (at 70%).

The elderly in Australia had preference for booster.

 

I gave the reference already in my following post:

 

On 2/5/2022 at 6:23 PM, singalion said:

 

Can you please stop distorting facts.

 

And stop always accusing others who contradict your posts of mixing up things.

 

At no point I ever argued that Omicron is registering a higher mortality rate. I am not claiming this.

 

The danger comes from the easier spread of Omicron.

 

What I was reasoning is: That Omicron poses a non negligible risk to elderly people (and unvaccinated and those with underlying medical conditions).

 

 

Australia has had its deadliest day yet of the pandemic – here’s what we know about who is dying

As the nation reaches the deadliest stage of the entire coronavirus pandemic, the protective effects of the vaccine remain clear

 

Fri 21 Jan 2022

 

The last two weeks of the Omicron outbreak have been the deadliest of the entire coronavirus pandemic, with four of the five highest daily death tolls all in the past week alone, figures reveal.

However, despite the rising numbers, experts say we still don’t know enough about who is dying and why.

Here, we’ve pulled together the information we do know about deaths from various government sources.

The data shows that for Australia’s third large Covid wave, older Australians continue to be overrepresented in the death toll, even as younger Australians record far more cases.

 

There were 78 deaths reported on Tuesday alone this week. Before the current wave the highest daily death toll was in September 2020, when Victoria recorded 59 deaths.

Those aged 70 and over accounted for almost 80% of the deaths in the initial waves up to August last year, and once again make up a similar share of deaths in the current wave

 

The government does not publish the number of booster vaccinations by age group in its daily statistics, so it is unclear what proportion of older people are protected by a third vaccine dose or not.

In NSW, which publishes much more detailed information than the federal government or other jurisdictions in its weekly surveillance reports, we can see how the risk of serious outcomes changes with both age and vaccination status.

 

Figures from the report show the number of deaths or ICU hospitalisations – called “severe outcomes” in the report – as a proportion of total Covid cases, split up by age group and vaccination status. So, for example, of 780 unvaccinated Covid cases in the 70-to-79 age group, there were 171 people who either died or ended up in ICU, giving a severe outcome rate of 21.9%, compared with a rate of 1.8% for vaccinated people.

 

These numbers show that older people face a higher rate of serious cases even while vaccinated.

 

What else do you need???

 

 

 

You ignored it and did not do your homework, but still preferred to continue arguing against the numbers.

 

Quote from the article again:

"These numbers show that older people face a higher rate of serious cases even while vaccinated."

 

Further, in the more recent European research studies the death incidence rate is also increasing (already higher than the one reported by the Singapore minister) and summarised the main situation on Omicron on 21 Jan 2022 as

 

Quote:

Overall level of risk and options for response

Based on the current situation and the available evidence, ECDC’s Rapid Risk Assessment (18th update) on the impact of Omicron remains valid: the overall level of risk to public health associated with the further emergence and spread of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron VOC in the EU/EEA is assessed as VERY HIGH.

 

 

 

At all times my point on Omicron being a serious elevated risk for the age group above 50 years (even vaccinated with 2 doses) was correct.

 

I had already given sufficient substantiation and evidence for this on Saturday, which you simply brushed off or intentionally ignored.

 

Still intend to claim that Omicron is harmless and comparable to a flu?

 

 

 

 

 

On a note: there is also no need to lower yourself down and start using expletives and insults on others here.

 

 

 

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 4:27 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

Wow... so it is now "THE MINISTER WHO CLAMED IT"?

 

And please tell me, which minister claim that the pneumonia-death data from MOH include those who has sadly passed away from influenza? Which minister claimed that WHO was talking about the situation GLOBALLY but excluding countries with higher vaccination rates? Are you going to quote me the Bible ad claimed that God said something in the same context too? 

 

PLEASE! We are already well-aware how far you are willing to go to propagate your lies, you know? You don't have to go any further to prove it to us. 


TIL: the utter futility of arguing with someone so much more stupid than me

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On 2/7/2022 at 4:29 PM, singalion said:

 

 

 

 

Unsubstantiated claims with zero evidence. hm...

As if I am the one posting "unsubstantiated claims" at BW.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/2022/jan/21/australia-has-had-its-deadliest-day-yet-covid-omicron-heres-what-we-know-about-who-is-dying

 

The graphics unfortunately cannot be transferred to BW.

 

Scroll down to the  graphic named.

 

Current wave cases and deaths per 100k in each age group

 

You can see that the data up to 21 jan, the fetal rates per 100,000 for the age groups and covers Omicron

50 to 59 is 1.34

60 to 69 is 2.92

70 - 79 is 11.71

80-89 is 35.19

Above 90 is 99.85

 

This in reference to a general vaccination rate (2 doses) at 90% and booster (at 70%).

The elderly in Australia had preference for booster.

 

I gave the reference already in my following post:

 

 

You ignored it and did not do your homework, but still preferred to continue arguing against the numbers.

 

Quote from the article again:

"These numbers show that older people face a higher rate of serious cases even while vaccinated."

 

Further, in the more recent European research studies the death incidence rate is also increasing (already higher than the one reported by the Singapore minister) and summarised the main situation on Omicron on 21 Jan 2022 as

 

Quote:

Overall level of risk and options for response

Based on the current situation and the available evidence, ECDC’s Rapid Risk Assessment (18th update) on the impact of Omicron remains valid: the overall level of risk to public health associated with the further emergence and spread of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron VOC in the EU/EEA is assessed as VERY HIGH.

 

 

 

At all times my point on Omicron being a serious elevated risk for the age group above 50 years (even vaccinated with 2 doses) was correct.

 

I had already given sufficient substantiation and evidence for this on Saturday, which you simply brushed off or intentionally ignored.

 

Still intend to claim that Omicron is harmless and comparable to a flu?

 

 

 

 

 

On a note: there is also no need to lower yourself down and start using expletives and insults on others here.

 

 

 

 

🍏 and 🍊 again. You should open a market stall. 

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On 2/7/2022 at 9:47 AM, Guest Wtf said:

The answer can never please everybody, so somewhere a balance has to be struck, especially with a now endemic virus. 


I wonder how the virus, from being well-controlled, became endemic through the Delta wave?🙄

 

As vaccination rates went up, someone high up decided to make a bet that the virus could be controlled via vaccination. As such, they relaxed on entry requirements into Singapore, moved away from professionally-done PCR-testing to self-administered ART-testing, as well as dismantling much of the contact-tracing infrastructure that was set up. Not to mention the introduction of home recovery.

 

I am surprised no one has called this into question, and whether this was too big a gamble to take. Now, we talk about the endemic virus, but why has it become that way?

Edited by sgmaven

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I am quite upset that the government has downplayed the occurrence of Long-COVID, such that no one really talks about it. Many in the community do not even know about it.

 

The fact is, we are only finding out more about the impact of COVID infections on general health. Yes, you might be vaccinated, and suffer from mild symptoms during the initial infection. However, no one talks about long term consequences, such as the impact of the virus on your circulatory system, as well as the increased risk of diabetes amongst those who have had COVID.

 

Yes, medical treatment is free for the initial COVID infection (especially when you are "recommended" to recover at home), but what about the cost of dialysis should you develop diabetes in the longer term? I am sure that they will just attribute it to your genes and lifestyle choices. Just pray that you have enough in savings then...

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On 2/7/2022 at 4:46 PM, Guest Wtf said:


TIL: the utter futility of arguing with someone so much more stupid than me

 

Now that you cannot even name the minister who made the "claim" like what you had falsely declared, is this your best parting shot after getting beaten into a hasty retreat,? But then again, we should all be kind to retards like you, shouldn't we? So please stay out of adult discussion in the future, OK? Go play with your Barbie and Ken dolls now. They might give you superpowers too.  

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On 2/7/2022 at 6:09 PM, sgmaven said:


I wonder how the virus, from being well-controlled, became endemic through the Delta wave?🙄

 

As vaccination rates went up, someone high up decided to make a bet that the virus could be controlled via vaccination. As such, they relaxed on entry requirements into Singapore, moved away from professionally-done PCR-testing to self-administered ART-testing, as well as dismantling much of the contact-tracing infrastructure that was set up. Not to mention the introduction of home recovery.

 

I am surprised no one has called this into question, and whether this was too big a gamble to take. Now, we talk about the endemic virus, but why has it become that way?

 

If you want my humble and honest reply:

 

I assume it is related to cost.

 

The Government is spending huge amounts during the Pandemic.

It is not just manpower and government resources bound to Covid, take also the cost of vaccinations, subsidies... prospects of lower tax revenue due to the impact of Covid on the economy.

also "private" organisations that jumped in to distribute free masks, mouth wash and hand sanitiser.

 

With Singapore's health care structure there are also costs to the government for the long run, as the Government is providing the essential monies for health care.

 

 

Regarding the "endemic", I don't think Singapore is already at such stage, but Singapore had no measure any longer to protect the country from the influx of Omicron. Nobody wanted to go back to lockdowns or close borders completely.

Whereas with delta I think it could have been better controlled at start but the initial reaction from the Government in closing borders was too slow. To me I still don't understand while we residents in Singapore were locked in to the country, parents of foreign students however, were permitted into Singapore for social visits (while these parents didn't even have any resident pass etc...)

I guess that policy was just a slip in oversight.

 

Omicron faced a different scenario as borders were already opened. We still don't know were it just transfer passengers that brought it here.

 

All in all it shows the world is more connected than we always thought.

 

Hopefully the numbers of infections are declining.

 

I always feel very sad if I hear of a loss of someone's parents/ grandparents just to a "silly" bat virus.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 6:35 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

Now that you cannot even name the minister who made the "claim" like what you had falsely declared, is this your best parting shot after getting beaten into a hasty retreat,? But then again, we should all be kind to retards like you, shouldn't we? So please stay out of adult discussion in the future, OK? Go play with your Barbie and Ken dolls now. They might give you superpowers too.  


see, it is utterly futile because you can’t keep track of what you are even asking or ranting about anymore. All the information on who said what is in  the articles I already shared the links to. Just click on them and any dispute you have, take it up with the relevant people. 

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On 2/7/2022 at 6:20 PM, sgmaven said:

I am quite upset that the government has downplayed the occurrence of Long-COVID, such that no one really talks about it. Many in the community do not even know about it.

 

The fact is, we are only finding out more about the impact of COVID infections on general health. Yes, you might be vaccinated, and suffer from mild symptoms during the initial infection. However, no one talks about long term consequences, such as the impact of the virus on your circulatory system, as well as the increased risk of diabetes amongst those who have had COVID.

 

Yes, medical treatment is free for the initial COVID infection (especially when you are "recommended" to recover at home), but what about the cost of dialysis should you develop diabetes in the longer term? I am sure that they will just attribute it to your genes and lifestyle choices. Just pray that you have enough in savings then...

 

Most European countries have been talking about Long Covid for quite some while already.

 

There have been cases that workers were only able to slowly restart work after 10 months on part time basis, as the impact from Covid was too severe. 

 

 

 

 

What are long Covid symptoms?

Long Covid is not fully understood, and there is no internationally-agreed definition - so measures of how common it is or what symptoms are involved vary.

According to the NHS website, these can include:

 
  • extreme tiredness
  • shortness of breath, heart palpitations, chest pain or tightness
  • problems with memory and concentration ("brain fog")
  • changes to taste and smell
  • joint pain

But patient surveys have identified tens and even hundreds of other symptoms. A large study by University College London (UCL) identified 200 symptoms affecting 10 organ systems.

These include hallucinations, insomnia, hearing and vision changes, short-term memory loss and speech and language issues. Others have reported gastro-intestinal and bladder problems, changes to periods and skin conditions.

The severity of symptoms varies, but many have been left unable to perform tasks like showering or remembering words.

 

Here is an overview

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19/debilitating-puzzle-box-long-covid

 

 

 

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Just some days I stumbled on reports that Omicron seems to have a bigger impact on children.

 

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00309-x

  • 04 February 2022

Does Omicron hit kids harder? Scientists are trying to find out

Children are making up a larger proportion of patients hospitalized with COVID than in previous infection waves.
 
 

As the highly transmissible Omicron coronavirus variant has swept the globe in the past two months, millions of people have been hospitalized. Children have been no exception, and, in the United States, they have made up a larger proportion of COVID-19 hospitalizations than at any other time of the pandemic.

 

Such paediatric hospitalizations might seem concerning, but estimates show that the individual risk of a child with Omicron being hospitalized is, in fact, lower — by one-third to one-half — than it was when the Delta variant was dominant. And hospitalized children are not presenting with any more severe illness than they were with other variants, says Michael Absoud, a specialist in women and children’s health at King’s College London. Preliminary UK data show that although there has been an increase in the proportion of children hospitalized with COVID-19 has increased during the Omicron wave — especially those under the age of one — the children have required fewer medical interventions, such as ventilators and supplemental oxygen.

 

These findings mirror the trend in the general population: Omicron seems less likely than Delta to cause hospitalization or death, especially in immunized and younger populations. But scientists are still trying to work out why Omicron has led to disproportionately more hospitalizations in children. In the United States, for example, children make up about 5% of all COVID-19 hospitalizations — a proportion up to four times higher than that of previous coronavirus waves.

 

One potential explanation is that the variant’s extremely high transmissibility, when coupled with a lack of built-up immunity from vaccination or past infection, leaves children more vulnerable to Omicron, compared with adults who have had access to vaccines for months. Most countries have not yet authorized a COVID-19 vaccine for children under the age of 5, and some have not yet offered it to children under 12.

 

 

A different infection

But children have relatively small nasal passageways that can easily be blocked, so paediatric upper respiratory infections sometimes warrant extra attention compared with those in adults. Roberta DeBiasi, who heads the division of paediatric infectious diseases at the Children’s National Hospital in Washington DC, says that she and her colleagues have noticed an increase in the number of children with ‘COVID croup’, which is an inflammation of the upper airway that produces a characteristic ‘barking’ cough. That adds credence to the theory that Omicron might infect children differently from adults

 

 

Even if children generally recover from an acute infection with Omicron, clinicians still worry that they might develop long COVID, in which symptoms persist for months, or a rare but serious condition called multisystem inflammatory system in children (MIS-C). It’s too early to assess the effect of Omicron on long COVID symptoms in children, says Absoud, but MIS-C symptoms usually develop two to four weeks after infection.

 

 

 

 

The local experts have remained so far silent on this also.

 

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 6:44 PM, singalion said:

If you want my humble and honest reply:

 

I assume it is related to cost.

Of course it is related to cost... However, I would ask if money spent on employing social distancing ambassadors would be better spent on contact tracing staff, for example?

 

On 2/7/2022 at 6:44 PM, singalion said:

Regarding the "endemic", I don't think Singapore is already at such stage, but Singapore had no measure any longer to protect the country from the influx of Omicron. Nobody wanted to go back to lockdowns or close borders completely.

I agree that it is a little too late to contain the virus, especially with how infectious Omicron is. No one is proposing locking down or closing borders, but I believe that better quarantining and contact tracing are essential when numbers are small and manageable. The government wanted to reduce the number of days for quarantine - contrary to medical opinion for Delta, so that was a deadly blow.

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On 2/7/2022 at 6:51 PM, singalion said:

Most European countries have been talking about Long Covid for quite some while already.

 

There have been cases that workers were only able to slowly restart work after 10 months on part time basis, as the impact from Covid was too severe.

Yes, but the local press has constantly suppressed talk about Long-COVID and downplayed its significance.

 

Now that medical researchers have found increased incidence of Diabetes (a major illness in Singapore) to COVID (as well as the worsening of the diabetic's condition for those with the illness), Singapore is still not talking about it.

 

Risk for Newly Diagnosed Diabetes >30 Days After SARS-CoV-2 Infection Among Persons Aged <18 Years — United States, March 1, 2020–June 28, 2021

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On 2/7/2022 at 6:59 PM, sgmaven said:

Of course it is related to cost... However, I would ask if money spent on employing social distancing ambassadors would be better spent on contact tracing staff, for example?

 

I gave a response to that already.

 

With TraceTogether, was there very much manpower any longer needed to do contract tracing.

 

It seems that there isn't enough manpower to look at the data collected through TraceTogether at all and identify the close contacts.

 

Going back:

Maybe you did not get the hint in my posts on this, but I think parts if not the majority of the SAF should have been re-allocated to assist in these tasks.

 

Looking back at my national service, at least there had been something fruitful to do instead of the 90% of killing of time or waiting for Friday....

From that angle most would have been motivated to work in such areas, instead of hanging on the bunk beds and playing the phone...

 

Employing more people to do these tasks of contract tracing would have been very costly as well.

 

Do you really think there were so many people involved as Social Distancing Ambassadors???

 

 

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 6:47 PM, Guest Wtf said:


see, it is utterly futile because you can’t keep track of what you are even asking or ranting about anymore. All the information on who said what is in  the articles I already shared the links to. Just click on them and any dispute you have, take it up with the relevant people. 

 

It is OK. Retards like you are known to have short memory spans and cannot remember what was asked of them less than a few hours ago. So even if you want to point to your Barbie and Ken dolls and claim that it is Minister Barbie and Minister Ken who made those claims in your imaginary world, you are forgiven since it is your parents' fault for such DNA problems.

 

This article from International Journal Of Advanced Legal Research did point out that "Consanguinity and incest is very common in India":

 https://www.ijalr.in/2020/08/incest-in-india-need-to-criminalize-it.html#:~:text=Consanguinity and incest is very,communities and the south Indians.&text=Incest between an adult family,most reported form of incest.

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On 2/7/2022 at 7:06 PM, singalion said:

With TraceTogether, was there very much manpower any longer needed to do contract tracing.

I seriously doubt how accurate TraceTogether is. During CNY Day 2, I did not leave the house till about 4pm, and had already chalked up more than 400 Bluetooth Exchanges. Either my neighbours were having huge parties, or... You get the idea...

 

On 2/7/2022 at 7:06 PM, singalion said:

It seems that there isn't enough manpower to look at the data collected through TraceTogether at all and identify the close contacts.

Couldn't this be easily automated with Big Data? That's what IDA has been pushing for, right? Analytics?

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On 2/7/2022 at 7:05 PM, sgmaven said:

Now that medical researchers have found increased incidence of Diabetes (a major illness in Singapore) to COVID (as well as the worsening of the diabetic's condition for those with the illness), Singapore is still not talking about it.

 

Risk for Newly Diagnosed Diabetes >30 Days After SARS-CoV-2 Infection Among Persons Aged <18 Years — United States, March 1, 2020–June 28, 2021

 

 

But it could be comparing apples 🍏 with oranges   🍊.            .. 😉

 

 

🤣

 

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 7:07 PM, singalion said:

 

That is why I say, don't just read the local newspapers... (see some posts earlier...)...

I don't read local newspapers. Only use them to quote local COVID numbers...😀 No wonder SPH is broke!

 

However, many Singaporeans still consume the local press as their main avenue of news.

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On 2/7/2022 at 7:10 PM, sgmaven said:

I seriously doubt how accurate TraceTogether is. During CNY Day 2, I did not leave the house till about 4pm, and had already chalked up more than 400 Bluetooth Exchanges. Either my neighbours were having huge parties, or... You get the idea...

 

Couldn't this be easily automated with Big Data? That's what IDA has been pushing for, right? Analytics?

 

Damn, hopefully nobody overseas is reading your posts.

 

You are really bringing the Smart City down....

 

 

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The truth is, there is very little that we know about how SARS-CoV2 affects the body, besides the fact that it targets the ACE2 receptors. The Acute Respiratory Symptoms known with the wild strain was linked to the ACE2 receptors in the lungs. However, there are ACE2 receptors in our blood vessels, kidneys, pancreas, etc, Slowly, researchers are finding out how deadly and insidious this virus is...

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On 2/7/2022 at 7:16 PM, sgmaven said:

The truth is, there is very little that we know about how SARS-CoV2 affects the body, besides the fact that it targets the ACE2 receptors. The Acute Respiratory Symptoms known with the wild strain was linked to the ACE2 receptors in the lungs. However, there are ACE2 receptors in our blood vessels, kidneys, pancreas, etc, Slowly, researchers are finding out how deadly and insidious this virus is...

 

What comes back to my advice the past days:

 

Avoid social contacts as much as you can.

Stay at home as often as possible. Just do the necessary.

Keep the mask on, respect the safe distancing and other restrictions for your own protection.

 

this applies also to Omicron.

 

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 7:22 PM, singalion said:

What comes back to my advice the past days:

 

Avoid social contacts as much as you can.

Stay at home as often as possible. Just do the necessary.

Keep the mask on, respect the safe distancing and other restrictions for your own protection.

 

this applies also to Omicron.

Easier said than done, I think. For those who take public transport, and have to go back to their office/workplace (-- have you seen the squeeze during rush hours?).

The "official" narrative also doesn't help, since the government is constantly downplaying the impact of the virus to the fully-vaccinated. Most people are letting down their guard.

Works well if you are retired or work from home. Otherwise, it is still tough. I try to limit my "Bluetooth Exchanges" to less than 1000 a day, even though I have little faith in the TraceTogether data nowadays...

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On 2/7/2022 at 7:09 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

It is OK. Retards like you are known to have short memory spans and cannot remember what was asked of them less than a few hours ago. So even if you want to point to your Barbie and Ken dolls and claim that it is Minister Barbie and Minister Ken who made those claims in your imaginary world, you are forgiven since it is your parents' fault for such DNA problems.

 

This article from International Journal Of Advanced Legal Research did point out that "Consanguinity and incest is very common in India":

 https://www.ijalr.in/2020/08/incest-in-india-need-to-criminalize-it.html#:~:text=Consanguinity and incest is very,communities and the south Indians.&text=Incest between an adult family,most reported form of incest.


You are not really disproving my point regarding your stupidity - it is probably time for you to have a rest now.

 

@singalion - can you help guest guest out?

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On 2/7/2022 at 7:30 PM, sgmaven said:

Easier said than done, I think. For those who take public transport, and have to go back to their office/workplace (-- have you seen the squeeze during rush hours?).

The "official" narrative also doesn't help, since the government is constantly downplaying the impact of the virus to the fully-vaccinated. Most people are letting down their guard.

Works well if you are retired or work from home. Otherwise, it is still tough. I try to limit my "Bluetooth Exchanges" to less than 1000 a day, even though I have little faith in the TraceTogether data nowadays...

 

The research said:

 

For public transport, if the ventilation is good, then there is less risk.

But maybe it is advised not to sit down currently with Omicron aerosols flying around in buses and trains. You might be too close to a virus spreader.

 

The most critical places are badly ventilated small rooms and elevators.

=> if the room is too small with no ventilation at all, avoid. Face to face meeting in small rooms should be avoided.

=> walk stairs...

 

I know if you work at the 70th floor of UOB it is not a good advice.

 

I never understood why there was never any "entry" control for public transport. Probably not manageable in Singapore.

 

 

 

Yes, it is all easier said than done...

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On 2/7/2022 at 7:35 PM, Guest Wtf said:


You are not really disproving my point regarding your stupidity - it is probably time for you to have a rest now.

 

@singalion - can you help guest guest out?

 

 

Seriously?? Proving my point regarding your stupidity by looking for support from @singalion here? OMG! You poor thing!  🤦‍♂️

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 7:43 PM, singalion said:

The research said:

 

For public transport, if the ventilation is good, then there is less risk.

But maybe it is advised not to sit down currently with Omicron aerosols flying around in buses and trains. You might be too close to a virus spreader.

Nowadays, all our buses are air-conditioned. They only other "hope" for exchange of air, is when the bus opens its doors at a bus stop. I wonder what air-recycle ratio is used in buses and MRT?

 

On 2/7/2022 at 7:43 PM, singalion said:

The most critical places are badly ventilated small rooms and elevators.

=> if the room is too small with no ventilation at all, avoid. Face to face meeting in small rooms should be avoided.

=> walk stairs...

I generally walk out of the elevator at my block if someone else steps in. I just take the next lift. Tried walking up and down the stairs... Okay if you are wearing something comfortable and can sweat it out. Cannot imagine being in office-wear and walking the stairs...

 

On 2/7/2022 at 7:43 PM, singalion said:

I never understood why there was never any "entry" control for public transport. Probably not manageable in Singapore.

What happens when masses are late for work, and blame it on crowd control at the MRT or buses? Frankly, I think it is the idea of two types of people in Singapore. Those who drive, and those who rely on public transport. Guess which group the policy-makers belong to?

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