Covid Situation in SG discussion (compiled)

[singalion]

On 2/25/2022 at 4:32 PM, Guest Wtf said:

He said: "Many of these patients have the mindset that because they have presented themselves to the A&E department, they need to be seen immediately."

 

According to 26-year-old A&E doctor Claire, about two-thirds of patients she saw were assessed to be at the third level of priority for care, P3. Some symptoms that fall into the P3 level are sprains, minor injuries, minor abdominal pain, vomiting, fever, rashes, and mild headaches.”

 

If I write here that this reaction might be from a certain Kiasu mindset of locals, then probably I will face critic.

 

But what do you expect?

People are worried.

 

2 years after the peak of Covid with the risks and all those people dying, people will seek assurance on their illness.

 

Don't they all get a Q number?

 

If I go to a hospital clinic and then they pull someone with medical bandages and lots of bleeding into the hospital, who would get the earlier appointment with the doctor?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by singalion

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/25/2022 at 5:56 PM, singalion said:

 

If I write here that this reaction might be from a certain Kiasu mindset of locals, then probably I will face critic.

 

But what do you expect?

People are worried.

 

2 years after the peak of Covid with the risks and all those people dying, people will seek assurance on their illness.

 

Don't they all get a Q number?

 

If I go to a hospital clinic and then they pull someone with medical bandages and lots of bleeding into the hospital, who would get the earlier appointment with the doctor?

 

 

 

 

Exactly! People are worried because of the risk being exaggerated by people like you, so they assume everyone catching covid dies!

 

the people calling for more restrictions and complaining about the health system being ‘overwhelmed’ (their word) are exactly the same people going to the ED with mild or no symptoms because they have lost the ability to evaluate risk. 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/25/2022 at 5:52 PM, singalion said:

 

Sorry wrong:

 

Singapore has made clear in various publications that it defers from the usual classification.

( I am not the first one who commented on this here).

 

 

You don't present any facts that Singapore informed or confirmed that it fully adheres to the WHO classification guidelines.

 

The WHO document is a mere guideline and is not binding on the member countries.

 

The article from the Association of American Medical Colleges is irrelevant to the issue as it does not say anything on Singapore.

 

Your permanent calling of anything in question what I write in this thread is already questionable.

 

Please facts not some links to here and there that are irrelevant and don't support your point.

 

 

seriously, again and again….

 

you make a massive claim and provide ZERO evidence, again:

 

“Singapore has made clear in various publications that it defers from the usual classification.”

 

If Singapore has ‘made it clear’, where can I find this information? If it is in ‘various publications’, can you at least share a link to ONE source!?!

Otherwise, this post can be filed under ‘fake news’. 

[singalion]

On 2/25/2022 at 6:11 PM, Guest Wtf said:

Exactly! People are worried because of the risk being exaggerated by people like you, so they assume everyone catching covid dies!

 

the people calling for more restrictions and complaining about the health system being ‘overwhelmed’ (their word) are exactly the same people going to the ED with mild or no symptoms because they have lost the ability to evaluate risk. 

 

Assumptions, assumptions...

 

Since when is pointing to the true risks of Omicron an exaggeration?

 

Did I somewhere say that more than 103 people died on Omicron the past 28 days?

Is that already an exaggeration in your view?

 

Not everyone has the ability to assess whether Omicron is mild or not.

Even with a flu you can have such strong headache and your mind is clouded.

 

But often I think that your mind is clouded even without any flu.

 

What is the purpose of playing down Covid?

Only because you want Covid related restrictions and measures to be reduced asap?

 

Is it that worth?

 

Don't you have any thoughts for those who lost their parents, grandparents, kids, brothers, sisters, uncles or aunts???

 

 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/25/2022 at 6:43 PM, singalion said:

 

Assumptions, assumptions...

 

Since when is pointing to the true risks of Omicron an exaggeration?

 

Did I somewhere say that more than 103 people died on Omicron the past 28 days?

Is that already an exaggeration in your view?

 

Not everyone has the ability to assess whether Omicron is mild or not.

Even with a flu you can have such strong headache and your mind is clouded.

 

But often I think that your mind is clouded even without any flu.

 

What is the purpose of playing down Covid?

Only because you want Covid related restrictions and measures to be reduced asap?

 

Is it that worth?

 

Don't you have any thoughts for those who lost their parents, grandparents, kids, brothers, sisters, uncles or aunts???

 

 

“Don't you have any thoughts for those who lost their parents, grandparents, kids, brothers, sisters, uncles or aunts???”

 

back to this again? Where were your tears for all the people who died of flu every year? Don’t you have any thoughts for those 6-800:people who died in Singapore every year, or for the families they left behind? Why weren’t you calling for restrictions to protect those people or posting endlessly on here about the flu mortality rate? Or what about those families who lost someone to the increased suicide rate? Or those denied treatment for other ailments because Covid has been prioritized over everything else? 
 

To you, some deaths clearly matter more than others. This is really sad that you dismiss non-Covid deaths as being so unimportant and don’t have any thoughts at all for those who lost their parents, grandparents, etc….

[singalion]

On 2/25/2022 at 6:17 PM, Guest Wtf said:

seriously, again and again….

you make a massive claim and provide ZERO evidence, again:

“Singapore has made clear in various publications that it defers from the usual classification.”

If Singapore has ‘made it clear’, where can I find this information? If it is in ‘various publications’, can you at least share a link to ONE source!?! Otherwise, this post can be filed under ‘fake news’. 

 

On 2/25/2022 at 6:17 PM, Guest Wtf said:

“Singapore has made clear in various publications that it defers from the usual classification.”

 

Why don't you read the Straits Times?  It was even explained in the Straits Times some months ago.

 

 

Here is a recapture from the Reuters article on this. it takes some time to find the ST article. main reasons why Singapore has one of the lowest death rates from Covid-19

main reasons why Singapore has one of the lowest death rates from Covid-19

Singapore has comparatively strict criteria for classifying COVID-19 deaths, counting patients who were infected with COVID but died of other causes as non-COVID deaths.

 

5. Classification of Covid-19 deaths

Only patients who qualify under the definition from the WHO as Covid-19 deaths have been considered as such, which excludes a number of patients who had been infected with Covid-19 but died of causes related to heart or blood issues.

The health ministry has said its approach is consistent with international practice, although some countries like Britain have taken broader counts.

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by singalion

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/25/2022 at 6:58 PM, singalion said:

 

 

Why don't you read the Straits Times?  It was even explained in the Straits Times some months ago.

 

 

Here is a recapture from the Reuters article on this. it takes some time to find the ST article. main reasons why Singapore has one of the lowest death rates from Covid-19

main reasons why Singapore has one of the lowest death rates from Covid-19

Singapore has comparatively strict criteria for classifying COVID-19 deaths, counting patients who were infected with COVID but died of other causes as non-COVID deaths.

 

5. Classification of Covid-19 deaths

Only patients who qualify under the definition from the WHO as Covid-19 deaths have been considered as such, which excludes a number of patients who had been infected with Covid-19 but died of causes related to heart or blood issues.

The health ministry has said its approach is consistent with international practice, although some countries like Britain have taken broader counts.

 

so, the article you are sharing to show your post that Singapore differs from WHO/international reporting standards instead confirms that Singapore is consistent with WHO/international standards.

 

What gives? 
 

Once again, it is really, really sloppy of you to share assertions without evidence and to then tell someone ‘I am not your butler’ or ‘oh, I read it somewhere a few months ago. It can’t find it now’ when they ask for the evidence for your claim. Sloppy. 

[Guest Wide Berth]

On 2/25/2022 at 4:15 PM, Guest Wtf said:

If people can visit friends etc, the numbers are not going to suddenly reduce to 100 cases a day. And look at how many imported cases there are now compared to local cases… cutting VTLs is not going to make any difference.

 

if you have practical, realistic suggestions, please make them. Otherwise, just keep living in some fantasy land where stopping dine in is magically going to fix everything. 

In that case, then the tightening of restrictions should include non-essential visitations of households. 
 

Before VTLs started the number of daily covid cases were far lower than 10,000+ to 20,000+, how does the cutting of VTL quotas not help in reducing the daily covid cases? 
 

If stopping dine-in and cutting VTL quotas are not practical, is doing nothing more and continuing with the current sets of overly relaxed rules going to magically fix anything? 

[Guest Wide Berth]

On 2/25/2022 at 4:28 PM, Guest Wtf said:

“2 countries who are steadfast in protecting the health and welfare of their own people”

😆

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/hong-kong-families-despair-as-covid-19-rules-may-separate-them-from-children

The parents will thank the HK government for potentially saving the lives of their children and themselves in the long run. 

[Guest Wide Berth]

On 2/25/2022 at 6:11 PM, Guest Wtf said:

Exactly! People are worried because of the risk being exaggerated by people like you, so they assume everyone catching covid dies!

 

the people calling for more restrictions and complaining about the health system being ‘overwhelmed’ (their word) are exactly the same people going to the ED with mild or no symptoms because they have lost the ability to evaluate risk. 

Are the people who go to ED have a medical degree or have the necessary qualifications to self-diagnose and self-evaluate risks?

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/25/2022 at 7:45 PM, Guest Wide Berth said:

In that case, then the tightening of restrictions should include non-essential visitations of households. 
 

Before VTLs started the number of daily covid cases were far lower than 10,000+ to 20,000+, how does the cutting of VTL quotas not help in reducing the daily covid cases? 
 

If stopping dine-in and cutting VTL quotas are not practical, is doing nothing more and continuing with the current sets of overly relaxed rules going to magically fix anything? 

By your logic and the need you see to get to 100 cases a day for 6-9 months, we should just go for a 6-9 month lockdown, right?

 

and then after 6-9 months, a magic fairy is going to have made covid disappear. If no fairy, then you just keep the lockdown going because unlocking will obviously mean cases going about your threshold. 
 

I wonder why the MMTF is not listening more to you - it sounds like you have all the answers! 

 

 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/25/2022 at 7:56 PM, Guest Wide Berth said:

The parents will thank the HK government for potentially saving the lives of their children and themselves in the long run. 

‘saving the lives of their children and themselves’… from covid?!??! This is hysterical, in both senses. 
 

Wow, you really don’t understand how severe covid actually is or not and which groups are more vulnerable. 

[Guest Wide Berth]

On 2/25/2022 at 10:00 PM, Guest Wtf said:

By your logic and the need you see to get to 100 cases a day for 6-9 months, we should just go for a 6-9 month lockdown, right?

 

and then after 6-9 months, a magic fairy is going to have made covid disappear. If no fairy, then you just keep the lockdown going because unlocking will obviously mean cases going about your threshold. 
 

I wonder why the MMTF is not listening more to you - it sounds like you have all the answers! 

 

 

If it takes 6-9months of lockdown or drastic imposition of tightening measures to achieve 100 daily cases, why not? Won’t it free up the healthcare system, and prevent deaths due to covid or lack of treatment due strained healthcare? 
 

If after 6-9months, a lot more people would have gotten their boosters and the chances of infection or severe consequences would reduce. If the 6-9months are insufficient, then continue for another 3-6months. What’s the rush when relaxing the measures like what we have currently is causing 10,000+ to 20,000+ people infected on a daily basis? 
 

I wonder why is MOH appealing for more nurses and volunteers. 

[Guest Wide Berth]

On 2/25/2022 at 10:11 PM, Guest Wtf said:

‘saving the lives of their children and themselves’… from covid?!??! This is hysterical, in both senses. 
 

Wow, you really don’t understand how severe covid actually is or not and which groups are more vulnerable. 

The measures taken by HK authorities to keep their people safe and reduce chances of infections among children and other demographics would have been deliberated by their experts. Do their experts not understand how severe covid actually is or not and which groups are more vulnerable? 

[singalion]

On 2/25/2022 at 7:19 PM, Guest Wtf said:

so, the article you are sharing to show your post that Singapore differs from WHO/international reporting standards instead confirms that Singapore is consistent with WHO/international standards.

 

What gives? 
 

Once again, it is really, really sloppy of you to share assertions without evidence and to then tell someone ‘I am not your butler’ or ‘oh, I read it somewhere a few months ago. It can’t find it now’ when they ask for the evidence for your claim. Sloppy. 

 

Yes it does. 

 

I think you didn't understand the article as it explained that Singapore takes an extremely restrictive approach on counting Covid deaths. 

 

And please do not place words into my posts that I never said. 

 

I did never say Singapore is not following WHO classifications .

 

 

I said :

‘the classification of who died due to Covid is very restrictive in Singapore’

b)

Singapore has made clear in various publications that it defers from the usual classification.

( I am not the first one who commented on this here).

 

 

That is what I said!

 

[Steve5380]

On 2/24/2022 at 11:28 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

I think you are missing the point completely. 

 

Just by getting a person boostered is not a solution in itself. This is akin to the misleading statement that the "vaccination gives you superpowers". Such misperception allows people to pin too much hope on a single part of the solution alone, instead of seeing the entire solution which is the administration of the booster shot together with all the restriction measures to prevent the virus from spreading all over the country.

 

And that is the full solution to prevent further deaths, and the same solution which could have prevented previous deaths as well.  

 

 

You have a good point.  It is the combination of vaccinations with the measures that prevent potential virus from one person to be caught by another.  This is due to the insufficient protection of the Covid vaccines that although can prevent severe illness they can still allow an infection to occur. 

 

On 2/25/2022 at 1:28 AM, singalion said:

 

Haven't we heard it before? "It will be gone by the summer..."  haha

 

 

We have heard this in America from Donald Trump two years ago. This was his first abominable Big Lie.  

 

Hopefully you don't have such a lowlife in your government.

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/26/2022 at 12:21 AM, singalion said:

 

Yes it does. 

 

I think you didn't understand the article as it explained that Singapore takes an extremely restrictive approach on counting Covid deaths. 

 

And please do not place words into my posts that I never said. 

 

I did never say Singapore is not following WHO classifications .

 

 

I said :

‘the classification of who died due to Covid is very restrictive in Singapore’

b)

Singapore has made clear in various publications that it defers from the usual classification.

( I am not the first one who commented on this here).

 

 

That is what I said!

 

the article says:

 

’Only patients who qualify under the definition from the WHO as Covid-19 deaths have been considered as such, which excludes a number of patients who had been infected with Covid-19 but died of causes related to heart or blood issues.

The health ministry has said its approach is consistent with international practice,’ 

 

so how can you claim ‘the classification of who died due to Covid is very restrictive in Singapore’, implying it is different here to other places? 

 

this contradiction in your posts makes zero sense. What point are you actually trying to make? 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/25/2022 at 11:17 PM, Guest Wide Berth said:

If it takes 6-9months of lockdown or drastic imposition of tightening measures to achieve 100 daily cases, why not? Won’t it free up the healthcare system, and prevent deaths due to covid or lack of treatment due strained healthcare? 
 

If after 6-9months, a lot more people would have gotten their boosters and the chances of infection or severe consequences would reduce. If the 6-9months are insufficient, then continue for another 3-6months. What’s the rush when relaxing the measures like what we have currently is causing 10,000+ to 20,000+ people infected on a daily basis? 
 

I wonder why is MOH appealing for more nurses and volunteers. 

This post needs no further comment, you show for yourself how ridiculous and disconnected from reality your ideas are. 

[Guest Guest]

On 2/25/2022 at 10:00 PM, Guest Wtf said:

By your logic and the need you see to get to 100 cases a day for 6-9 months, we should just go for a 6-9 month lockdown, right?

 

and then after 6-9 months, a magic fairy is going to have made covid disappear. If no fairy, then you just keep the lockdown going because unlocking will obviously mean cases going about your threshold. 
 

I wonder why the MMTF is not listening more to you - it sounds like you have all the answers! 

 

Oh! So, what you are saying is after 6-9 months, if no magic fairy is going to have made covid disappear, then we let the virus spread through the community and kill off the population? 

 

I guess that is why the MMTF is listening more to you - some animals have all the answers! 

 

 

 

On 2/25/2022 at 10:11 PM, Guest Wtf said:

‘saving the lives of their children and themselves’… from covid?!??! This is hysterical, in both senses. 
 

Wow, you really don’t understand how severe covid actually is or not and which groups are more vulnerable. 

 

You mean to say until now, you still do not understand that the COVID virus can spread and spread and spread? The quarantine measures are put in place not just to care for the infected, but also to prevent the spread of the virus to other people including the more vulnerable ones. So how is this not "saving the lives of their children and themselves"? 

 

Sure, people who cannot see past the fingers on their hands will want to focus on their false sense of security imbued by this "low 0.3% death rate" and undermine the severity of the virus. But others who has further foresight will want to focus on the extremely high transmissibility factor, especially that of a virus which has been known to infect the same person more than once, can cause long-COVID symptoms, and also is still evolving! 

 

 

On 2/26/2022 at 7:17 AM, Guest Wtf said:

This post needs no further comment, you show for yourself how ridiculous and disconnected from reality your ideas are. 

 

Each time the suggestion of an extended lockdown is broached, it becomes an idea that is " ridiculous and disconnected from reality". I think what is ridiculous and disconnected from reality is how a government and people like you can prioritize money matters ahead of the Singaporean lives.

 

That's why your post needs such further bashing. 

 

 

[Guest Wide Berth]

On 2/26/2022 at 7:17 AM, Guest Wtf said:

This post needs no further comment, you show for yourself how ridiculous and disconnected from reality your ideas are. 

It is ironic that you call tightening of measures in SG to bring down the number of new daily covid infections ridiculous and being disconnected from reality. 
 

How is wanting to save people lives through more restrictions ridiculous? 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/26/2022 at 10:56 AM, Guest Wide Berth said:

It is ironic that you call tightening of measures in SG to bring down the number of new daily covid infections ridiculous and being disconnected from reality. 
 

How is wanting to save people lives through more restrictions ridiculous? 

You are calling for a 6-9 month lockdown, with no proposal for how to ever emerge from lockdown if covid is still circulating after that. How is that not ridiculous?
 

Srsly, you really don’t see any issue with that proposal?  

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/26/2022 at 10:50 AM, Guest Guest said:

 

Oh! So, what you are saying is after 6-9 months, if no magic fairy is going to have made covid disappear, then we let the virus spread through the community and kill off the population? 

 

I guess that is why the MMTF is listening more to you - some animals have all the answers! 

 

 

 

 

You mean to say until now, you still do not understand that the COVID virus can spread and spread and spread? The quarantine measures are put in place not just to care for the infected, but also to prevent the spread of the virus to other people including the more vulnerable ones. So how is this not "saving the lives of their children and themselves"? 

 

Sure, people who cannot see past the fingers on their hands will want to focus on their false sense of security imbued by this "low 0.3% death rate" and undermine the severity of the virus. But others who has further foresight will want to focus on the extremely high transmissibility factor, especially that of a virus which has been known to infect the same person more than once, can cause long-COVID symptoms, and also is still evolving! 

 

 

 

Each time the suggestion of an extended lockdown is broached, it becomes an idea that is " ridiculous and disconnected from reality". I think what is ridiculous and disconnected from reality is how a government and people like you can prioritize money matters ahead of the Singaporean lives.

 

That's why your post needs such further bashing. 

 

 

another maths fail from the resident 🤡. It’s 0.03%, not 0.3%.

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/26/2022 at 10:56 AM, Guest Wide Berth said:

It is ironic that you call tightening of measures in SG to bring down the number of new daily covid infections ridiculous and being disconnected from reality. 
 

How is wanting to save people lives through more restrictions ridiculous? 

Wanting to save people is not ridiculous. Your proposal is ridiculous.
 

I also note that you don’t dispute that your idea is disconnected from reality. 

[Guest Wide Berth]

On 2/26/2022 at 1:00 PM, Guest Wtf said:

You are calling for a 6-9 month lockdown, with no proposal for how to ever emerge from lockdown if covid is still circulating after that. How is that not ridiculous?
 

Srsly, you really don’t see any issue with that proposal?  

Have already said, 6-9months of more restrictions such as no dine-in, reduction of VTL quotas by 90% or so to achieve about 100 daily cases at most then review at that point.
 

Assuming that is not achieved, then impose more restrictions like cease VTLs, limit more non-essential activities etc. 

 

Seriously you don’t see any issue to continue with current set of overly relaxed measures that is causing 10,000+ to 20,000+ daily cases and especially when MOH is asking for more nurses and volunteers? 

[Guest Wide Berth]

On 2/26/2022 at 1:04 PM, Guest Wtf said:

Wanting to save people is not ridiculous. Your proposal is ridiculous.
 

I also note that you don’t dispute that your idea is disconnected from reality. 

You can have your opinion about other people’s proposal and note what you want. However it won’t change the fact that SG is not doing enough with strict measures to reduce the number of daily covid cases and ease the burden on our healthcare system. 

[jlone]

The idiots will not be restricting measure or reducing any vtl becos they have spent too much already.

They need to top up the reserve urgently n now they are thinking of ways to get back the money quickly !

They will never listen to any suggestion

The sinkies will to to bear with all these n suffer in silent !

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by jlone

[singalion]

On 2/26/2022 at 7:14 AM, Guest Wtf said:

the article says:

 

’Only patients who qualify under the definition from the WHO as Covid-19 deaths have been considered as such, which excludes a number of patients who had been infected with Covid-19 but died of causes related to heart or blood issues.

The health ministry has said its approach is consistent with international practice,’ 

 

so how can you claim ‘the classification of who died due to Covid is very restrictive in Singapore’, implying it is different here to other places? 

 

this contradiction in your posts makes zero sense. What point are you actually trying to make? 

 

There is no contradiction in my posts at all. Please refrain from inventing contradictions when my statements are very clear and consistent.

 

But it is the same article itself that points to the fact that Singapore is taking a stricter approach.

 

You yourself quoted it also in your own quote!

 

 

It is already sufficiently evidenced that Singapore took and takes a narrow and restrictive approach in categorising Covid deaths.

 

Why would other countries and media report that Singapore has a restrictive approach to categorising Covid deaths, if it hadn't been the case?

And why would these point to a broader concept of categorising Covid deaths in following the WHO guidelines...

 

If any health minister of any countries says the sky is blue while it rains with thunderstorms, do you then also conclude that the speech was consistent with the weather situation???

 

 

The outside reports already made clear that the categorisation is different to the one of other countries and international practice.

 

What is there to add?

 

I think you don't understand the article or just pretend to not understand it.

 

 

[singalion]

18,597 new Covid-19 cases in Singapore; 1,584 patients hospitalised

Published 25 Feb 2022,

 

 

SINGAPORE - A total of 18,597 new Covid-19 cases were reported on Friday night (Feb 25), up from 18,593 infections on Thursday.

This is the second successive day that the number of daily new cases has fallen below the 20,000 mark, after it exceeded that figure on Tuesday and Wednesday.

There were 1,584 Covid-19 cases in hospital on Friday, down from 1,615 on Thursday, the Ministry of Health (MOH) said in its nightly update on case numbers.

There were 46 cases in the intensive care unit and 211 patients required oxygen support, MOH added.

There were also 11 deaths reported on Friday.

 

[singalion]

News analysis

Why did S'pore push back streamlining of Covid-19 measures if surge in cases was expected?

 

Published

25 Feb 2022

 

SINGAPORE - Many have been left disappointed after the multi-ministry task force tackling Covid-19 (MTF) announced on Thursday (Feb 24) that the streamlining of safe management measures (SMM) has been postponed.

 

All these changes have now been pushed back to a date to be announced later.

The reasons for the delay: "Given the current surge in daily cases, and the extensive work involved in going through the detailed rules across different settings, the MTF has reviewed the matter and has decided to consolidate and streamline the SMMs in one go instead."

 

 

But people are asking: Surely the ministers knew there would be extensive work involved when they announced the changes on Feb 16?

 

Similarly, the high number of infections had been predicted.

 

Yes, there was a surge to 26,000 cases on Tuesday (Feb 22), but the numbers have come down since.

The total case numbers may be even higher early next week since they typically drop over the weekend and climb on Tuesdays because of the reporting regime.

 

But those are not the important numbers, especially since many who are infected are not included in the daily count. What matters is the number of people who become seriously ill as that may impact the healthcare system. That number has remained fairly steady.

 

 

The task force said on Feb 16 that there were about 1,400 Covid-19 patients in hospital. This has gone up slightly and stood at 1,615 on Feb 24. There were 44 patients needing intensive care, a far cry from the high numbers last year.

 

So the situation in hospitals remains fairly stable.

 

"Most countries where the Omicron wave had peaked relaxed measures only after their peak.

 

 

 

Here WTF there are other people who think similar to what I posted and don't just ignore the ones impacted by Omicron. 

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by singalion

[Guest Guest]

On 2/26/2022 at 1:01 PM, Guest Wtf said:

another maths fail from the resident 🤡. It’s 0.03%, not 0.3%.

 

Oh gosh ... picking on typos as you retreat with another of your one-liner potshot again? 🤦‍♂️ 

 

On 2/26/2022 at 1:04 PM, Guest Wtf said:

Wanting to save people is not ridiculous. Your proposal is ridiculous.
 

I also note that you don’t dispute that your idea is disconnected from reality. 

 

GOOD! Let's just say that I put reality on hold for a while and I actually believe you have a change of heart and have started thinking that "wanting to save people is not ridiculous", so what is YOUR proposal to save people's lives? 

 

Please don't tell me about booster or vaccination anymore, OK? 91% of the entire population has gone for the full vaccination regime and  67% of total population has gone for their booster shot. And yet we are still seeing 20k daily cases right now. Vaccination and booster shots are only one half of the solution and not the full solution. 

 

So let your brilliance shine through this entire space and tell us what is YOUR proposal to save people's lives without further lockdown! Let's hear it! A round of applause first!     Come! Come! We are all waiting now! 

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/26/2022 at 2:39 PM, singalion said:

 

There is no contradiction in my posts at all. Please refrain from inventing contradictions when my statements are very clear and consistent.

 

But it is the same article itself that points to the fact that Singapore is taking a stricter approach.

 

You yourself quoted it also in your own quote!

 

 

It is already sufficiently evidenced that Singapore took and takes a narrow and restrictive approach in categorising Covid deaths.

 

Why would other countries and media report that Singapore has a restrictive approach to categorising Covid deaths, if it hadn't been the case?

And why would these point to a broader concept of categorising Covid deaths in following the WHO guidelines...

 

If any health minister of any countries says the sky is blue while it rains with thunderstorms, do you then also conclude that the speech was consistent with the weather situation???

 

 

The outside reports already made clear that the categorisation is different to the one of other countries and international practice.

 

What is there to add?

 

I think you don't understand the article or just pretend to not understand it.

 

 

if anybody else understands this post, I would love to hear from them.

[Guest Wtf]

On 2/26/2022 at 2:06 PM, Guest Wide Berth said:

Have already said, 6-9months of more restrictions such as no dine-in, reduction of VTL quotas by 90% or so to achieve about 100 daily cases at most then review at that point.
 

Assuming that is not achieved, then impose more restrictions like cease VTLs, limit more non-essential activities etc. 

 

Seriously you don’t see any issue to continue with current set of overly relaxed measures that is causing 10,000+ to 20,000+ daily cases and especially when MOH is asking for more nurses and volunteers? 

No, I don’t see any issue but thank you for double checking. The reason being those written in the article shared by @singalion:

 

“The total case numbers may be even higher early next week since they typically drop over the weekend and climb on Tuesdays because of the reporting regime.

 

But those are not the important numbers, especially since many who are infected are not included in the daily count. What matters is the number of people who become seriously ill as that may impact the healthcare system. That number has remained fairly steady.

 

The task force said on Feb 16 that there were about 1,400 Covid-19 patients in hospital. This has gone up slightly and stood at 1,615 on Feb 24. There were 44 patients needing intensive care, a far cry from the high numbers last year.

 

So the situation in hospitals remains fairly stable.”

 

[singalion]

On 2/26/2022 at 2:06 PM, Guest Wide Berth said:

Have already said, 6-9months of more restrictions such as no dine-in, reduction of VTL quotas by 90% or so to achieve about 100 daily cases at most then review at that point.
 

Assuming that is not achieved, then impose more restrictions like cease VTLs, limit more non-essential activities etc. 

 

Seriously you don’t see any issue to continue with current set of overly relaxed measures that is causing 10,000+ to 20,000+ daily cases and especially when MOH is asking for more nurses and volunteers? 

 

If you look at the daily data

 

I don't think the VTL are the major issue on the community spread.

 

 

Here from yesterday:

 

18,597 new Covid-19 cases in Singapore; 1,584 patients hospitalised

 

Published 25 Feb 2022,

 

Of the local cases, 15,313 were detected through antigen rapid tests (ARTs), which means the patients displayed no symptoms or their symptoms were mild.

 

Another 3,070 cases were detected through polymerase chain reaction (PCR) tests.

 

There were 214 new imported cases - 116 detected through PCR tests and 98 through ARTs.

 

 

 

This has been obvious in all the past 30 days.

 

The VTL's only make a very small fraction compared to the community infection numbers.

 

 

While I think, the Government should not have relaxed on the entry PCR Test and replaced it with an ART, (there have been very recent articles again that ART tests fail in recognising Omicron),

it needs measures to reduce the community spread within Singapore to bring infections down. 

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by singalion

[Guest Guest]

On 2/26/2022 at 4:04 PM, singalion said:

This has been obvious in all the past 30 days.

 

The VTL's only make a very small fraction compared to the community infection numbers.

 

 

 

The VTLs was the source of all the variants in the past. And the entire country is already having such a hard time handling the entire situation with the locals, why should it still allow the foreigners to come in? 

 

You are only keen on the VTL simply because you rely on it to fly to and fro your own home country! 

[singalion]

On 2/26/2022 at 3:54 PM, Guest Wtf said:

No, I don’t see any issue but thank you for double checking. The reason being those written in the article shared by @singalion:

 

 

“The total case numbers may be even higher early next week since they typically drop over the weekend and climb on Tuesdays because of the reporting regime.

 

But those are not the important numbers, especially since many who are infected are not included in the daily count. What matters is the number of people who become seriously ill as that may impact the healthcare system. That number has remained fairly steady.

 

The task force said on Feb 16 that there were about 1,400 Covid-19 patients in hospital. This has gone up slightly and stood at 1,615 on Feb 24. There were 44 patients needing intensive care, a far cry from the high numbers last year.

 

So the situation in hospitals remains fairly stable.”

 

 

 

Yes, but don't forget that the 1,400 - 1,600 in hospital will mean a higher death toll for the coming 2 weeks also.

 

 

[singalion]

Covid 19 has never been any "inborn" Singaporean pandemic.

 

 

While incoming travellers have caused the spread to the community in the past, this will always happen, unless you seriously close down the airport and all other borders of Singapore totally.

 

Singapore isn't North Korea.

 

Such a view is unrealistic.

 

Even, covid hyper restrictive China has never fully closed their borders to incoming travellers.

 

From the past pandemics, Singapore was always affected also.

 

Let's stay grounded.

 

[singalion]

On 2/26/2022 at 4:27 PM, Guest Guest said:

The VTLs was the source of all the variants in the past. And the entire country is already having such a hard time handling the entire situation with the locals, why should it still allow the foreigners to come in?

You are only keen on the VTL simply because you rely on it to fly to and fro your own home country! 

 

On a note this is one of the myth creations.

 

It is recorded and visible from the data for everyone that the incoming travellers on VTL are to 90% Singaporeans or PRs.

 

Please do not point to "foreigners" as scapegoats, when it is totally unjust and untrue.

The foreigners are the minority of travellers on VTL.

 

 

[Guest Guest]

On 2/26/2022 at 4:44 PM, singalion said:

Covid 19 has never been any "inborn" Singaporean pandemic.

 

 

While incoming travellers have caused the spread to the community in the past, this will always happen, unless you seriously close down the airport and all other borders of Singapore totally.

 

Singapore isn't North Korea.

 

Such a view is unrealistic.

 

Even, covid hyper restrictive China has never fully closed their borders to incoming travellers.

 

From the past pandemics, Singapore was always affected also.

 

Let's stay grounded.

 

 

Even if China and HK did not fully close their borders to incoming travelers, do they have any VTL which will allow quarantine-free travel into the country? Or does every travelers need to go squat in some hotels to serve out their weeks of quarantine? You tell me! Who should stay grounded?

 

We are fully aware of your distraction tactics like trying to blur the line between normal flights and VTLs, just so that people like you can come in without the need to pay for and serve the quarantine period.

 

[Guest Guest]

On 2/26/2022 at 4:52 PM, singalion said:

On 2/26/2022 at 4:27 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

The VTLs was the source of all the variants in the past. And the entire country is already having such a hard time handling the entire situation with the locals, why should it still allow the foreigners to come in? 

 

You are only keen on the VTL simply because you rely on it to fly to and fro your own home country! 

 

On a note this is one of the myth creations.

 

It is recorded and visible from the data for everyone that the incoming travellers on VTL are to 90% Singaporeans or PRs.

 

Please do not point to "foreigners" as scapegoats, when it is totally unjust and untrue.

The foreigners are the minority of travellers on VTL.

 

90% Singaporeans or PRs means the other 10% are foreigners.

 

As such, like it or not, and no matter how you want to deny it, the statement "VTLs was the source of all the variants in the past. And the entire country is already having such a hard time handling the entire situation with the locals, why should it still allow the foreigners to come in?" still remains true. 

[Guest Wide Berth]

On 2/26/2022 at 3:54 PM, Guest Wtf said:

No, I don’t see any issue but thank you for double checking. The reason being those written in the article shared by @singalion:

 

 

“The total case numbers may be even higher early next week since they typically drop over the weekend and climb on Tuesdays because of the reporting regime.

 

But those are not the important numbers, especially since many who are infected are not included in the daily count. What matters is the number of people who become seriously ill as that may impact the healthcare system. That number has remained fairly steady.

 

The task force said on Feb 16 that there were about 1,400 Covid-19 patients in hospital. This has gone up slightly and stood at 1,615 on Feb 24. There were 44 patients needing intensive care, a far cry from the high numbers last year.

 

So the situation in hospitals remains fairly stable.”

 

Could we impose tighter restrictions to see that the number covid patients in hospitals reduce from 1,000+ to 100 or fewer than that? Why should we be ok with 1,000+ in hospitals and 10,000+ to 20,000+ new people getting infected per day? 

[Guest Wide Berth]

On 2/26/2022 at 4:04 PM, singalion said:

 

If you look at the daily data

 

I don't think the VTL are the major issue on the community spread.

 

 

Here from yesterday:

 

18,597 new Covid-19 cases in Singapore; 1,584 patients hospitalised

 

Published 25 Feb 2022,

 

Of the local cases, 15,313 were detected through antigen rapid tests (ARTs), which means the patients displayed no symptoms or their symptoms were mild.

 

Another 3,070 cases were detected through polymerase chain reaction (PCR) tests.

 

There were 214 new imported cases - 116 detected through PCR tests and 98 through ARTs.

 

 

 

This has been obvious in all the past 30 days.

 

The VTL's only make a very small fraction compared to the community infection numbers.

 

 

While I think, the Government should not have relaxed on the entry PCR Test and replaced it with an ART, (there have been very recent articles again that ART tests fail in recognising Omicron),

it needs measures to reduce the community spread within Singapore to bring infections down. 

 

We should fight covid from a few fronts. People returning from overseas via VTLs may develop covid later on and we will never know if their infection is due to them being overseas or locally. So it’s better to play safe to reduce VTLs quota by 90% for a start. Those returning from overseas should then be quarantined in proper monitored facilities for 14-28days to also be safe. If they don’t like such measures then don’t go overseas. 

[singalion]

On 2/26/2022 at 5:08 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

90% Singaporeans or PRs means the other 10% are foreigners.

 

As such, like it or not, and no matter how you want to deny it, the statement "VTLs was the source of all the variants in the past. And the entire country is already having such a hard time handling the entire situation with the locals, why should it still allow the foreigners to come in?" still remains true. 

 

Maybe in your personal preconceived view, but I dislike the fact that you allude that foreigners brought Omicron or Delta to Singapore.

The community spread by VTL's was still caused by 90 % locals.

 

You won't convince me or win me for a discussion on this.

[jlone]

On 2/26/2022 at 6:28 PM, Guest Wide Berth said:

Could we impose tighter restrictions to see that the number covid patients in hospitals reduce from 1,000+ to 100 or fewer than that? Why should we be ok with 1,000+ in hospitals and 10,000+ to 20,000+ new people getting infected per day? 

 

On 2/26/2022 at 6:34 PM, Guest Wide Berth said:

We should fight covid from a few fronts. People returning from overseas via VTLs may develop covid later on and we will never know if their infection is due to them being overseas or locally. So it’s better to play safe to reduce VTLs quota by 90% for a start. Those returning from overseas should then be quarantined in proper monitored facilities for 14-28days to also be safe. If they don’t like such measures then don’t go overseas. 

Too bad, all these suggestions will be fell on deaf ears. Those idiots where got so easily listen or agree to anything suggested. They are smart elites mind you as they are doing very well all along by themselves in controlling the endemic.

Sg is in the top no. 1 position in terms of per 100,000 population of infection according to WHO already. And they should feel very proud !

What an honour !

[Guest Guest]

On 2/26/2022 at 7:41 PM, singalion said:

 

Maybe in your personal preconceived view, but I dislike the fact that you allude that foreigners brought Omicron or Delta to Singapore.

The community spread by VTL's was still caused by 90 % locals.

 

You won't convince me or win me for a discussion on this.

 

Nobody's here to win or convince you of anything here. People are just stating the facts here. And facts are facts, no matter how hard you try to twist it this time. 

[lonelyglobe]

On 2/26/2022 at 4:59 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

Even if China and HK did not fully close their borders to incoming travelers, do they have any VTL which will allow quarantine-free travel into the country? Or does every travelers need to go squat in some hotels to serve out their weeks of quarantine? 

 

Japan is going to allow business travellers to enter and they need to serve a 3 days quarantine. Taiwan will be cutting their quarantine from 14 days to 10 days. Allowing VTL without quarantine is as good as committing suicide.

 

Without VTL,  will omicron still come in?  Definitely, like taiwan,  it is still possible to get say 20 cases but which could be easier to trace and control the speed of spread, not possible when u r having 20,000 cases daily. 

 

Currently HK is having a omicron tsunami and SG cant wait to start a VTL,  so who is the one adding additional burden and stress to our health care workers? 

 

To sum up,  one of the main reason for VTL is:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.straitstimes.com/business/sias-earnings-bounce-back-in-oct-dec-2021-quarter&ved=2ahUKEwiA-83ksp32AhVp4HMBHTdSAdAQFnoECDgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw07_UXfVaxt5fp56akF_JP6

[Guest Guest]

On 2/26/2022 at 8:55 PM, lonelyglobe said:

Japan is going to allow business travellers to enter and they need to serve a 3 days quarantine. Taiwan will be cutting their quarantine from 14 days to 10 days. Allowing VTL without quarantine is as good as committing suicide.

 

Without VTL,  will omicron still come in?  Definitely, like taiwan,  it is still possible to get say 20 cases but which could be easier to trace and control the speed of spread, not possible when u r having 20,000 cases daily. 

 

Currently HK is having a omicron tsunami and SG cant wait to start a VTL,  so who is the one adding additional burden and stress to our health care workers? 

 

To sum up,  one of the main reason for VTL is:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.straitstimes.com/business/sias-earnings-bounce-back-in-oct-dec-2021-quarter&ved=2ahUKEwiA-83ksp32AhVp4HMBHTdSAdAQFnoECDgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw07_UXfVaxt5fp56akF_JP6

 

I was just thinking of this too.

 

Remember how Singapore have a jinx minister?  His first foray into politics caused the PAP to lose an entire GRC together with a seasoned minister along with it? Then he went to MOE and teachers have to start paying for their own parking among other issues? Then he went to MoT during COVID and tried to do multiple VTLs and almost each and everyone of them failed, and SIA would have gone bankrupt if he had stayed at MoT with his jinx power. Now that he is in MOH and also the co-chair of the MMTF, i can almost bet that he's the one who has been pushing the VTLs to atone for his past failures at MoT, even while his jinx power is making the entire nation sick and the hospitals overwhelmed. 

 

Seriously, how can anyone be more jinxed than that? Look at that power alone! Tolong he doesn't become the next PM. If he does, Singapore will become SinkingPot. I really hope people at whichever next GRC he is going to contest knows what to do for the sake of the country! 

[Guest covid]

Is it safe to have sex with someone who recovered from Covid?

How long after he turned negative is considered safe?

[Guest Wide Berth]

On 2/26/2022 at 8:49 PM, jlone said:

 

Too bad, all these suggestions will be fell on deaf ears. Those idiots where got so easily listen or agree to anything suggested. They are smart elites mind you as they are doing very well all along by themselves in controlling the endemic.

Sg is in the top no. 1 position in terms of per 100,000 population of infection according to WHO already. And they should feel very proud !

What an honour !

It is no wonder nobody is praising Sg for controlling the pandemic. 20,000+ cases per day is evidence that we have lost the plot. 

[Guest Guest]

On 2/26/2022 at 7:41 PM, singalion said:

 

Maybe in your personal preconceived view, but I dislike the fact that you allude that foreigners brought Omicron or Delta to Singapore.

The community spread by VTL's was still caused by 90 % locals.

 

You won't convince me or win me for a discussion on this.

CECA brought Delta which created havoc last year, it's a fact. 

[Guest Guest]

On 2/26/2022 at 3:54 PM, Guest Wtf said:

The total case numbers may be even higher early next week since they typically drop over the weekend and climb on Tuesdays because of the reporting regime.

 

Oh! So 26k daily cases wasn't even the peak? More to come? Didn't some people  claimed that the numbers will be dropping after this and it will mark the end of some wave? But yet, that wasn't even the peak? 

 

Let's face it. The policymakers really have no clue, and they are just crossing their fingers and hoping for the best.