Is it right to base the salary on the school where the applicant studied?

[Guest Jason]

Both applicants passed all the tests and credentials but one is a graduate of SMU and the other is from poly. Should the SMU graduate get a higher salary compare to a poly graduate?

[G_ZK]

is this a troll? comparing a degree holder with a diploma holder is as good as comparing durian with rambutan. both are not on equal academic level for comparison.

[doncoin]

Well the SMU applicant graduated with a degree whereas the poly applicant graduated with a diploma. The amount of time both candidates spent in school is different with the SMU candidate having spent a little more time. It is not a matter of basing the salary "on the school" but rather the amount of education and training received. You cannot compare a polytechnic which is a technical diploma, to a Bachelor's degree. It will be like comparing PSLE with O Levels. The amount of time spent on learning, and the mental development is different. 

 

So it is expected the candidate with the degree will start with a higher base salary. However, if the poly candidate has the experience, he should be compensated at a comparable level. 

[Guest Lolfunny]

Errr. Comparing apple to orange, you ok bo? Degree and diploma have difference interms of academic rigour and depth. 

[Guest Wtf]

Salary should be based on needs of the job to be done. 

[auscent]

What is unforgiving is ppl 'casually' mentioning the top schools they come from, esp if they havent proved their ability. Our teams weakest link just did that. I could see the team leaders gave a WTF silent response.

[Guest O.L.]

On 9/4/2021 at 8:35 AM, auscent said:

What is unforgiving is ppl 'casually' mentioning the top schools they come from, esp if they havent proved their ability. Our teams weakest link just did that. I could see the team leaders gave a WTF silent response.

 

And what is your role, 

 

Coffee maker and gossip spreader ?

[fab]

On 9/3/2021 at 1:21 AM, Guest Jason said:

Both applicants passed all the tests and credentials but one is a graduate of SMU and the other is from poly. Should the SMU graduate get a higher salary compare to a poly graduate?

 

What job?

 

It does matter.

[Guest Hess]

I think for experienced professionals, it should be on their skills. Our experiece with those who graduated from known universities are not great most of the time. They are egoistic, leave the company after 3 months, out of touched. Most poly graduated are more skillful and more loyal.

[FattChoy]

Still working ah?

[Guest Phantom]

Salary should be based on efficiency and productivity. Nonpoly grads often talk only but usually never get things done based on my experience.

[Steve5380]

On 9/4/2021 at 1:38 AM, Guest Hess said:

I think for experienced professionals, it should be on their skills. Our experiece with those who graduated from known universities are not great most of the time. They are egoistic, leave the company after 3 months, out of touched. Most poly graduated are more skillful and more loyal.

 

I agree with you.   As a person who interviewed candidates for a professional job I can say that it is difficult to make a correct selection.  The institution the candidate graduated from is one of several elements of judgment, of course,  it reflects dedication, perseverance.  But It does not reflect creativity, intelligence, smartness,  character.  Often a person with much less academic credentials performs much better. 

 

We have the example of George W. Bush,  41th US President.  He graduated from... Harvard !!!.   But he was a terrible president,  wishy-washy, influenced by his vice Dick Cheney to wage stupid wars. As a young man he had episodes of alcohol abuse,  and later in life he read the Bible... daily!   No wonder his brain was so poor. 

 

At work, my "leader" company liked to hire graduates from the best schools,  like MIT, Harvard, Yale, etc.  As my peers I had the opportunity to see their performance, and they were not at all better than anyone else,  even worse than an insignificant engineer who came from Argentina, got a PhD at the insignificant University of Houston,  and got awarded many patents for his creative inventions.

[Guest U Agree?]

Not all with big cock can deliver full satisfaction.  Those with small dick can also provide maximum pleasure.  Size does not matter, performance is key.

[yhtang]

On 12/28/2023 at 9:19 AM, Guest U Agree? said:

Not all with big cock can deliver full satisfaction.  Those with small dick can also provide maximum pleasure.  Size does not matter, performance is key.

 

I agree, the ability to deliver should be the yardstick for salary. 

I feel those who think they deserve "x" salary because they are the output of certain schools etc., are single dimensional thinkers.  They think of what they feel they deserve, but do not stand in the shoes of those paying them to evaluate if they deserve the remuneration they are demanding.

[Guest Guest]

Anyone hired into the position can do whatever that is needed for the job, regardless of the educational level. But the person with better qualifications may be able to bring the company further with his knowledge and his current tools found on the job. 

 

So if the company is just looking for someone to do the job, the company might be better off to look into office automation or some robotic hands with primary school qualifications to get the job done. But if the company wants to proceed further into the horizons, which most companies in Singapore sadly do not care about, then it might be better worth looking for someone with a better qualification. 

 

It looks like most people on this forum are not well educated enough to realize what a good education can really do for you or the company, because they are all blinded by their immediate needs to get the job done. If the hiring of someone with with a good qualification background is unable to bring the company further, then the problem is the poor quality of the education provider, which is unable to make the qualification beneficial to the society.  

[yhtang]

7 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Anyone hired into the position can do whatever that is needed for the job, regardless of the educational level. But the person with better qualifications may be able to bring the company further with his knowledge and his current tools found on the job. 

 

So if the company is just looking for someone to do the job, the company might be better off to look into office automation or some robotic hands with primary school qualifications to get the job done. But if the company wants to proceed further into the horizons, which most companies in Singapore sadly do not care about, then it might be better worth looking for someone with a better qualification. 

 

It looks like most people on this forum are not well educated enough to realize what a good education can really do for you or the company, because they are all blinded by their immediate needs to get the job done. If the hiring of someone with with a good qualification background is unable to bring the company further, then the problem is the poor quality of the education provider, which is unable to make the qualification beneficial to the society.  

 

I mostly agree with your comments.

 

I do not quite agree with "Anyone hired into the position can do whatever that is needed for the job, regardless of the educational level."  This statement is true if the person applying and subsequently chosen for the job did not lie about their abilities to go the job.  I do agree with you that the level of education is not critical so long the person can get the job done, done correctly, and done in a manner that fits the needs for having to get the job done, and in a manner that does not create negative repercussions some time in the future.  

 

" If the hiring of someone with with a good qualification background is unable to bring the company further, then the problem is the poor quality of the education provider" is also true to a degree, because this assumes the company is not managed by idiots, and/or that the top management is not resistant to the necessary changes.

 

I would argue that good qualification background could be independent of the quality of the education provider.  I am sure there are some people out there who manage well despite coming from less than stellar schools. 

 

Conversely, I am also sure that there are people from top schools who did not perform as well as expected.  And on this point, to base the salary purely on the school where the applicant studied would not be right.  Salary should be based on ability to perform, regardless of the educational level. 

 

 

 

 

[NeitherHereNorThere]

I have interviewed and worked with scholars, degree holders, diploma holders etc.

 

Better performing ones on the job seems to be diploma holder who then went on to get a degree. A good balance of on the ground hands-on as well as putting on thinking caps. Scholars are good to cover blind spots, they consider problems more well-rounded, but lacks practicality. Alot of whatifs that are not balanced with actual risks. 

Edited January 5, 2024 by NeitherHereNorThere

[Guest Guest]

On 12/31/2023 at 12:09 AM, yhtang said:

I do not quite agree with "Anyone hired into the position can do whatever that is needed for the job, regardless of the educational level."  This statement is true if the person applying and subsequently chosen for the job did not lie about their abilities to go the job. 

 

If even a robotic hand can be trained to do a job well, a human can be trained better. 

 

On 12/31/2023 at 12:09 AM, yhtang said:

this assumes the company is not managed by idiots, and/or that the top management is not resistant to the necessary changes.

 

Sadly, in Singapore, most companies are managed by idiots, and/or that the top management is resistant to the necessary changes which is why the hiring of someone with a good educational background is wasted in Singapore general context. 

 

[singalion]

On 1/5/2024 at 11:04 AM, NeitherHereNorThere said:

I have interviewed and worked with scholars, degree holders, diploma holders etc.

 

Better performing ones on the job seems to be diploma holder who then went on to get a degree. A good balance of on the ground hands-on as well as putting on thinking caps. Scholars are good to cover blind spots, they consider problems more well-rounded, but lacks practicality. Alot of whatifs that are not balanced with actual risks. 

 

Probably the best performing or let's the best to integrate are those who come with some form of work experience, even if it was working in a Mc Donald as a student.

 

Coming to the question of the TS, it would be difficult to assess all degrees and diplomas, in particular for those who studied overseas.

From the culture here those who studied overseas will be judged down by local HR staff...

 

Nonetheless, having studies at Harvard or Oxford doesn't mean you will excel in your job....

 

 

[Guest Guest]

On 1/5/2024 at 11:04 AM, NeitherHereNorThere said:

I have interviewed and worked with scholars, degree holders, diploma holders etc.

 

Better performing ones on the job seems to be diploma holder who then went on to get a degree. A good balance of on the ground hands-on as well as putting on thinking caps. Scholars are good to cover blind spots, they consider problems more well-rounded, but lacks practicality. Alot of whatifs that are not balanced with actual risks. 

Sometimes a person better performing or not also depends on the type of bossess they have. Some bosses are more demanding and higher expectations, even your work performance is good but to this boss, he/she might view it as average only.

 

This is why i think boss is more important than anything else.

[NeitherHereNorThere]

30 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

Sometimes a person better performing or not also depends on the type of bossess they have. Some bosses are more demanding and higher expectations, even your work performance is good but to this boss, he/she might view it as average only.

 

This is why i think boss is more important than anything else.

Not wrong, it depends on what the boss expects. If he's nurturing, then even if you don't meet expectation, there will be help provided to teach. If the boss just expect delivery on day one, then may be good to abandon ship earlier.

 

I don't expect my staff to perform on day one. But if he still cannot make the mark after 2/3 months and with resources provided to help him, I usually will have a talk to see why. And most of the time, they were not interviewed by me.

[Guest Guest]

2 minutes ago, NeitherHereNorThere said:

Not wrong, it depends on what the boss expects. If he's nurturing, then even if you don't meet expectation, there will be help provided to teach. If the boss just expect delivery on day one, then may be good to abandon ship earlier.

 

I don't expect my staff to perform on day one. But if he still cannot make the mark after 2/3 months and with resources provided to help him, I usually will have a talk to see why. And most of the time, they were not interviewed by me.

That's why people resign mostly due to boss than anything else. Not easy to find a boss that have good chemistry with you. Maybe those people who can stay in a company for 20 over years means they have found a boss than they have chemistry between them.

[Steve5380]

On 12/30/2023 at 2:21 AM, Guest Guest said:

 

It looks like most people on this forum are not well educated enough to realize what a good education can really do for you or the company, because they are all blinded by their immediate needs to get the job done. If the hiring of someone with with a good qualification background is unable to bring the company further, then the problem is the poor quality of the education provider, which is unable to make the qualification beneficial to the society.  

 

 

It is your "looks".  I find that most people on this forum have very good education.

 

"Immediate needs to get the job done" is usually the motivation to hire people.  In few cases, the need is to get a person highly creative in some new field, and then more than the school the person comes from is its curriculum vitae, the work he/she has already done before.  

 

It is also human nature that the interviewer, the person deciding on the hiring,  will be hesitant to hire someone so qualified as to take his job or pass him over for promotion.

[Steve5380]

33 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

That's why people resign mostly due to boss than anything else. Not easy to find a boss that have good chemistry with you. Maybe those people who can stay in a company for 20 over years means they have found a boss than they have chemistry between them.

 

Also those who stay with the same company for decades can do so because the company is well managed from the top and does not allow bosses who are flaky, selfish, tyrant,  and they have many opportunities for employees to be relocated, transferred, promoted.

[doncoin]

One thing I have come to recognize having interviewed candidates and doing the hiring process is that at some point, when it comes to paper qualifications, work/ life experiences, etc. most of the final candidates are more or less the same. At that junction, it comes down to the candidate's personality and whether he or she will fit into the team and add value to it. 

 

Regardless of degree or diploma, education provides the foundation for you to acquire the skills and knowledge to get hired. A lot of what you do at your job is entirely a new learning experience. Some people flourish while others flounder despite having some of the best academic backgrounds.  While having a degree will open the door to a higher salary range compared to a diploma holder, how you perform at your job is entirely up to you. 

[singalion]

2 hours ago, NeitherHereNorThere said:

Not wrong, it depends on what the boss expects. If he's nurturing, then even if you don't meet expectation, there will be help provided to teach. If the boss just expect delivery on day one, then may be good to abandon ship earlier.

 

I don't expect my staff to perform on day one. But if he still cannot make the mark after 2/3 months and with resources provided to help him, I usually will have a talk to see why. And most of the time, they were not interviewed by me.

 

The challenge is, you only know your boss after you started working at the company...

 

But you need to differentiate on the length of work experience. You can't expect a fresh graduate to perform up to the job in 2 months. 

 

Often I see that work culture is not communicated and new employees left to struggle on their own. 

 

Plenty of new employees also need a certain time to fit in. 

 

I would always communicate to the boss if I face troubles, instruction was inadequate or insufficient or if no guidance is given. 

 

Bosses would always be a bit overdemanding to push results. 

 

Surely, if bosses are always unreasonable or unrealistic, it is better to move fast to somewhere else... 

 

[NeitherHereNorThere]

I think too much emphasis have been put on bosses, no doubt people leave because of them. Lets not forget that bosses are also employees of the company, and they have bosses too. The additional burden of managing people also doesn't usually come with more pay, but they are expected to nurture and bring up the next batch of people to take their place in the near future. It's always easier to blame that bosses don't communicate well, don't provide directions etc.

 

The expectation of individual staff is definitely relative, I don't expect a fresh grad to perfrom the job of an experience hire in 2 month. But if the expectation of the fresh grad is to be able to understand the task given, put on his thinking cap and propose ideas for discussion, and he can't do that even with coaching from people for 2 months, there could be some problems there.

 

Communication is key, but if the expectation of the boss is to provide clear, concise instructions, then maybe the manager should do the job itself instead of taking time to communicate. Or maybe the employee is seeing himself as just hands and legs, leave the thinking to the boss since he get paid "so much".

 

Anyway, this is off topic. 

 

The reason what I said earlier about poly grads who went on to uni is that they have both the hands-on, as well as the thinking capacity. If I just need hands and legs to do the job, I'll probably go for poly grads. If I need people to be able to continue supporting the cause, I'll train up uni grads.

[NeitherHereNorThere]

11 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Also those who stay with the same company for decades can do so because the company is well managed from the top and does not allow bosses who are flaky, selfish, tyrant,  and they have many opportunities for employees to be relocated, transferred, promoted.

Agree to disagree. I guess the meaning of a well-managed company is one where the culture of the company is recognised and practised by its people. As long as there is alignment, i think the team/company will do well.

[Guest Guest]

"Is it right to base the salary on the school where the applicant studied?"

 

First and foremost, if the general population is not going to pay a premium for candidates from good schools, then it will only come at the cost of the education of future generations. Since nobody want to go study in good schools at all in the future, as it is not worth the effort and money, everyone will just go get a degree from a simple degree-mill for the sake of putting up some paper qualifications during employment. And isn't this exactly the situation in Singapore right now? 

 

As for the case of the diploma-versus-degree argument. Don't forget this: 一山还比一山高，强中更有强中手。If you think a diploma holder has some hands-on advantage over the degree holders, wait till "experienced" people from some Third World countries come in with even more "hands-on" real work experience to compete with these diploma holders, asking for even lower pay.  And again, isn't this also exactly the situation in Singapore right now? 

 

Of course, the academic institutions also have to bear a bulk of the responsibilities, but it is exactly this type of questions like "Is it right to base the salary on the school where the applicant studied?" that has eroded the competitive advantage of Singapore over the past decade. People don't care about doing things better now. They just want things cheaper and faster now. In the past, a good education really do mean something in the society. Sadly, we have gone down too far down the shit rabbit hole on the erosion of the value of a good education.

 

I don't even know where Singapore is going to end up in the next couple of decade, with every man in the streets undervaluing a good education nowadays.

 

Good luck, Singapore.

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

"Is it right to base the salary on the school where the applicant studied?"

 

First and foremost, if the general population is not going to pay a premium for candidates from good schools, then it will only come at the cost of the education of future generations. Since nobody want to go study in good schools at all in the future, as it is not worth the effort and money, everyone will just go get a degree from a simple degree-mill for the sake of putting up some paper qualifications during employment. And isn't this exactly the situation in Singapore right now? 

 

As for the case of the diploma-versus-degree argument. Don't forget this: 一山还比一山高，强中更有强中手。If you think a diploma holder has some hands-on advantage over the degree holders, wait till "experienced" people from some Third World countries come in with even more "hands-on" real work experience to compete with these diploma holders, asking for even lower pay.  And again, isn't this also exactly the situation in Singapore right now? 

 

Of course, the academic institutions also have to bear a bulk of the responsibilities, but it is exactly this type of questions like "Is it right to base the salary on the school where the applicant studied?" that has eroded the competitive advantage of Singapore over the past decade. People don't care about doing things better now. They just want things cheaper and faster now. In the past, a good education really do mean something in the society. Sadly, we have gone down too far down the shit rabbit hole on the erosion of the value of a good education.

 

I don't even know where Singapore is going to end up in the next couple of decade, with every man in the streets undervaluing a good education nowadays.

 

Good luck, Singapore.

 

Money is not everything.  And it is sad if it is the only motivator.  

 

One can strive to get the best education without condition it to get the highest pay.   I am proud of and feel good about speaking multiple languages, about playing the piano, about practicing a martial art, but this does not earn me a single dollar.  When I got a PhD from a university in Houston my salary did not increase by one dollar, (but my company kept paying me my salary for one year of residency)  Now I am proud of having attained an advanced degree. 

 

I am sure that many young people in Singapore have the urge to excel, even if this does not translate directly into money.  There is pride, satisfaction for the person and his family!  Although I think that this should not be overdone,  like a family going into debt to send a child to an ivy league university overseas.   On the high end, the "best of the best" is a waste of money,  although it may bring the highest pride. 

[Guest Guest]

14 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Money is not everything.  And it is sad if it is the only motivator.  

 

One can strive to get the best education without condition it to get the highest pay.   I am proud of and feel good about speaking multiple languages, about playing the piano, about practicing a martial art, but this does not earn me a single dollar.  When I got a PhD from a university in Houston my salary did not increase by one dollar, (but my company kept paying me my salary for one year of residency)  Now I am proud of having attained an advanced degree. 

 

I am sure that many young people in Singapore have the urge to excel, even if this does not translate directly into money.  There is pride, satisfaction for the person and his family!  Although I think that this should not be overdone,  like a family going into debt to send a child to an ivy league university overseas.   On the high end, the "best of the best" is a waste of money,  although it may bring the highest pride. 

 

Sure, keep telling yourself "Money is not everything" while you donate all your money away to this forum to keep it running, OK?

 

Yes, money DOES matter! Even if money is not everything, it is definitely something very important! "Pride, satisfaction for the person and his family" doesn't put food and water on the table, and neither do "pride, satisfaction for the person and his family" pay the bills!

 

The comparison here is not even talking about the "best of the best" here. The comparison is merely talking about a graduate of SMU and the other from poly.

 

Nobody cares if you have a PhD, or speak multiple languages, or play the piano, or practice any martial art. Why? Because this thread is not about you.

[Guest Meritoracy?]

On 2/21/2024 at 12:34 AM, doncoin said:

One thing I have come to recognize having interviewed candidates and doing the hiring process is that at some point, when it comes to paper qualifications, work/ life experiences, etc. most of the final candidates are more or less the same. At that junction, it comes down to the candidate's personality and whether he or she will fit into the team and add value to it. 

 

Regardless of degree or diploma, education provides the foundation for you to acquire the skills and knowledge to get hired. A lot of what you do at your job is entirely a new learning experience. Some people flourish while others flounder despite having some of the best academic backgrounds.  While having a degree will open the door to a higher salary range compared to a diploma holder, how you perform at your job is entirely up to you. 

Your viewpoint is limited to the private sector and heavily influenced by the particular boss. However, possessing a degree—regardless of how relevant it is to your position—is essential for high starting salary in the public service, or at the very least, high starting rank.    Assume that one candidate holds a nursing diploma and another has a degree in economics. When both seek for a position at a hospital, the person with the degree will be paid more than the one with the diploma, or they will also begin with a senior rank that corresponds with their degree.   I have seen "meritocracy" operate in this way firsthand.The nurse with the diploma eventually quit the public hospital to work in the private sector that has leaner and flat reporting hierarchy, where her performance could get noticed and also make more money eventually.

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

 

Sure, keep telling yourself "Money is not everything" while you donate all your money away to this forum to keep it running, OK?

 

Yes, money DOES matter! Even if money is not everything, it is definitely something very important! "Pride, satisfaction for the person and his family" doesn't put food and water on the table, and neither do "pride, satisfaction for the person and his family" pay the bills!

 

The comparison here is not even talking about the "best of the best" here. The comparison is merely talking about a graduate of SMU and the other from poly.

 

Nobody cares if you have a PhD, or speak multiple languages, or play the piano, or practice any martial art. Why? Because this thread is not about you.

 

The title of the thread is more generic than you think, not just about SMU vs. Poly. And not only about the base salary but also on who gets hired or not.  From your postings, we know that you love Donald Trump,  a person who never cared about education but is all about MONEY.   So it is YOU who should learn that "money is not everything".

 

And you should also learn that "money is not everything"  does not imply that "money doesn't matter".  OF COURSE money matters, especially when you don't have much.

[Guest The Apprentice]

14 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

The title of the thread is more generic than you think, not just about SMU vs. Poly. And not only about the base salary but also on who gets hired or not.  From your postings, we know that you love Donald Trump,  a person who never cared about education but is all about MONEY.   So it is YOU who should learn that "money is not everything".

To be honest, I think "The Apprentice" on Donald Trump shows is really good.    In one of the episodes, he put the Street Smart and Book Smart groups to the test, and in the end, both groups were almost equal.       Whether you are a street smart or a well-educated person, Donald Trump didn't take side.   I thought that regardless of what you think, he will give credit where credit is due.   It is highly relevant to this topic and you should watch his show again.

[Steve5380]

1 minute ago, Guest The Apprentice said:

To be honest, I think "The Apprentice" on Donald Trump shows is really good.    In one of the episodes, he put the Street Smart and Book Smart groups to the test, and in the end, both groups were almost equal.       Whether you are a street smart or a well-educated person, Donald Trump didn't take side.   I thought that regardless of what you think, he will give credit where credit is due.   It is highly relevant to this topic and you should watch his show again.

 

Let's not get off topic.   I am of the opinion that a practical learning from the Poly can be as much or more valuable than the theoretical learning from the SMU, so the SMU graduate SHOULD NOT draw a higher pay than the one from Poly.  If there is any difference, this should depend on the nature of the job and not the school of the applicant.

[Guest No Escape]

24 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Let's not get off topic.   I am of the opinion that a practical learning from the Poly can be as much or more valuable than the theoretical learning from the SMU, so the SMU graduate SHOULD NOT draw a higher pay than the one from Poly.  If there is any difference, this should depend on the nature of the job and not the school of the applicant.

You must be living in an ideal world.   

 

Most job advertisements explain the nature of a job in an ambiguous, misleading, overstated, or poorly defined manner; nevertheless, one requirement stood out as being extremely clear: a degree holder is important even for an unimportant  "role".     As a result, a sizable group of experienced Diploma holders were excluded.  This is how the boss works, with a large pool of grads at his disposal each year.    Your educational attainment is unquestionably one of the many ways that discrimination manifests itself in a society.     It isn't new even till this day as I wrote. 

[doncoin]

11 hours ago, Guest Meritoracy? said:

Your viewpoint is limited to the private sector and heavily influenced by the particular boss. However, possessing a degree—regardless of how relevant it is to your position—is essential for high starting salary in the public service, or at the very least, high starting rank.    Assume that one candidate holds a nursing diploma and another has a degree in economics. When both seek for a position at a hospital, the person with the degree will be paid more than the one with the diploma, or they will also begin with a senior rank that corresponds with their degree.   I have seen "meritocracy" operate in this way firsthand.The nurse with the diploma eventually quit the public hospital to work in the private sector that has leaner and flat reporting hierarchy, where her performance could get noticed and also make more money eventually.

 

Another factor too that will influence the salary is the demand for certain skill sets. For example, if the demand for nurses is high, naturally to attract more, hospitals have to offer attractive wages to people holding nursing diplomas. Sometimes there are also sign-on bonuses to attract such people. Under such circumstances, there may be instances where the nursing diploma holder may start at a higher or equivalent rate to the economics degree holder. 

 

You can choose to be a small fish in a big pond or be a big fish in a small pond. Hospitals are very bureaucratic in operations, and they have their reasons for doing so. It can be very frustrating, What you make of your career is up to you. My good friend was a nurse working in a hospital, and we met during grad school. She started as the typical basic nurse, but with additional training, she advanced to specialize in cancer patient care and then became an OR nurse for surgery. We met while pursuing our MBAs and now she has transitioned to hospital management and making more money. 

 

My point is we all have to start somewhere. How far you go is entirely up to you. You may begin with a diploma but there are opportunities for you to advance your education. Granted you may have a slower start compared to a uni degree holder, but it doesn't mean you are stuck there forever. 

 

[single42]

https://fb.watch/qnfPzh0UEL/

 

It's not about the places the candidates worked, it's about the character that person has.

 

The most successful businesses in anything are the ones where the overall vision is in alignment.

The employee is a good fit for the operation & the mgmt works in synergy with one another.  

 

Character, empathy & attitude will / should trump stars & diamonds. 

 

Donald Trump is a clown at the end of the day. 

 

I am extremely keen to know what industry the thread starter is in. And what kind of jobs is he offering to the candidates.

 

To me, on a personal point of view, i, myself, is a chef & from the F&B industry. let me say this: 

 

YOU AS AN EMPLOYER, YOU PAY PEANUTS; YOU GET MONKEYS. DON'T EXPECT CIRQUE DU SOLEIL

 

Hire the right candidate.

 

someone who has the passion, able to do OT, have the creativity edge (hands on experience) & knowledge; able to lead & take charge. someone who is mature in character & in words. Pay accordingly to what u offer; if fringe benefits & OT clicks; throw in a sign up bonus of sorts. 

Edited February 22, 2024 by single42

[single42]

I have seen a fair share of degree holders working from the bottom of the food chain. 

 

Degree holders selling bak kwas in shopping malls. Bottom of the food chain. work their way up to be store mgmt material.

 

M'sian Fresh Grad Working At International Company Earns RM11K (says.com)

 

RM$11K = S$3089.90

 

Wong said that the working world is not the same as university life because most employers seek graduates with specific characteristics.

 

She emphasized that employers seek graduates who possess not only a solid education, but also valuable soft skills, such as proficiency in communication.

"The career world is very different from studying at university, especially in building relationships with other staff, and networking between departments."

"The course, experience, and skills learned (at university) are all forms of education that can shape a bright future for a student's career, no matter what job they're interested in," she told Utusan Malaysia.

 

M'sian Lecturer Rather Work As Cleaner In SG To Earn 5 Times His Previous Pay (says.com)

 

S$3100, this is how much a cleaner makes as the bottom feeder of the food chain.. yes, it may seems mundane; low & dirty job to many of us; this is the character i will hire to work with me. 

Edited February 22, 2024 by single42

[Steve5380]

4 hours ago, Guest No Escape said:

You must be living in an ideal world.   

 

Most job advertisements explain the nature of a job in an ambiguous, misleading, overstated, or poorly defined manner; nevertheless, one requirement stood out as being extremely clear: a degree holder is important even for an unimportant  "role".     As a result, a sizable group of experienced Diploma holders were excluded.  This is how the boss works, with a large pool of grads at his disposal each year.    Your educational attainment is unquestionably one of the many ways that discrimination manifests itself in a society.     It isn't new even till this day as I wrote. 

 

You must be living with incomplete understanding.  What you see as "ideal",  can be practical.  If a service company is looking for a person to maintain and repair air conditioners, they will choose someone with a diploma in air conditioning over another with a degree in mechanical engineering.  There are job advertisements that are ambiguous, but there are others that are very specific.

 

What kind of advertisements are you looking at?  Is it for geriatric care?  Then a diploma can be fine.  But it is better to get the degree of Registered Nurse.  If you are smart and practical, you should follow your vocation since childhood. And within your vocation, don't look at advertisements but seek the most complete learning in your vocation field.  And if you cannot afford it and have to start in a college, return later to a university to get an advanced degree.  It is never too late to learn! 

[Steve5380]

2 hours ago, single42 said:

I have seen a fair share of degree holders working from the bottom of the food chain. 

 

Degree holders selling bak kwas in shopping malls. Bottom of the food chain. work their way up to be store mgmt material.

 

M'sian Fresh Grad Working At International Company Earns RM11K (says.com)

 

RM$11K = S$3089.90

 

Wong said that the working world is not the same as university life because most employers seek graduates with specific characteristics.

 

She emphasized that employers seek graduates who possess not only a solid education, but also valuable soft skills, such as proficiency in communication.

"The career world is very different from studying at university, especially in building relationships with other staff, and networking between departments."

"The course, experience, and skills learned (at university) are all forms of education that can shape a bright future for a student's career, no matter what job they're interested in," she told Utusan Malaysia.

 

M'sian Lecturer Rather Work As Cleaner In SG To Earn 5 Times His Previous Pay (says.com)

 

S$3100, this is how much a cleaner makes as the bottom feeder of the food chain.. yes, it may seems mundane; low & dirty job to many of us; this is the character i will hire to work with me. 

 

There is no justice in this world.  There is no justice in the availability of personal opportunities.  This is why we should take advantage of whatever opportunity comes to us, like the M'sian graduates did when moving to SG.   HOWEVER...   this is not always possible.

 

The US southern border is full of piled-up "refugees" from South America and other countries who are trying to enter the US for much better opportunities.  But not all succeed.

[Guest Guest]

3 hours ago, single42 said:

 

It's not about the places the candidates worked, it's about the character that person has.

 

 

You don't even need an education for that in such cases.

 

2 hours ago, single42 said:

I have seen a fair share of degree holders working from the bottom of the food chain. 

 

Degree holders selling bak kwas in shopping malls. Bottom of the food chain. work their way up to be store mgmt material.

 

Everyone can start selling bak kwas in shopping malls and then work their way up to mgmt material. Why even bother going for a good education?

 

 

 

 

[Guest Guest]

6 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

The title of the thread is more generic than you think, not just about SMU vs. Poly. And not only about the base salary but also on who gets hired or not.  From your postings, we know that you love Donald Trump,  a person who never cared about education but is all about MONEY.   So it is YOU who should learn that "money is not everything".

 

And you should also learn that "money is not everything"  does not imply that "money doesn't matter".  OF COURSE money matters, especially when you don't have much.

 

You are not the TS, so who are you to tell anyone whether "the title of the thread is more generic than you think, not just about SMU vs. Poly. "?

 

Oh, so money does matter now, huh? At least some sense can still be knocked into you, and you finally retreated to also let MONEY it got into your ranks of "pride, satisfaction for the person and his family!"

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

There is no justice in this world.  There is no justice in the availability of personal opportunities.  This is why we should take advantage of whatever opportunity comes to us, like the M'sian graduates did when moving to SG.   HOWEVER...   this is not always possible.

 

The US southern border is full of piled-up "refugees" from South America and other countries who are trying to enter the US for much better opportunities.  But not all succeed.

 

Let's hope that the piled-up "refugees" from South America with whatever degree-mill MD degrees will soon become a doctor in your hospitals, instead of someone who graduated from your own university in your own country.

 

 

 

 

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

 

You don't even need an education for that in such cases.

 

Everyone can start selling bak kwas in shopping malls and then work their way up to mgmt material. Why even bother going for a good education?

 

 

You don't need an education ????   You DO need an education to post here at BW.

 

So we can speculate that you received a basic education to be able to read and write,  but from what you write, it is clear that this is ALL the education you got!   Good luck !!

[Guest Guest]

37 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

You don't need an education ????   You DO need an education to post here at BW.

 

So we can speculate that you received a basic education to be able to read and write,  but from what you write, it is clear that this is ALL the education you got!   Good luck !!

 

You need an education to have a character?? You need an education to be selling bak kwa at the shopping malls??

 

We know you are trying to use yourself as living proof that even PhD graduates like you have inferior logic skills compared to someone with lower academic qualifications. But I stand by the fact that graduates from good schools differs from graduates from lousy ones, and your reasoning skills are so poor is simply because you got your PhD degree from a lousy school.

[Guest Guest]

8 hours ago, single42 said:

 

Donald Trump is a clown at the end of the day. 

 

 

Between a clown and a senile old man, I'd take a clown any days. At least the entire world remained peaceful without super high inflation, wars and global disputes happening all the time when the clown show was put on for our entertainment.

 

[NeitherHereNorThere]

Wow wow wow.. what happened to everyone's entitled to their opinions vs can't convince then personal attack.. 😅

[Balestier]

On 9/3/2021 at 1:21 AM, Guest Jason said:

Both applicants passed all the tests and credentials but one is a graduate of SMU and the other is from poly. Should the SMU graduate get a higher salary compare to a poly graduate?

Easy. Pay grad higher w more challenging job scope eg analysis, budgeting, managing team

Edited February 24, 2024 by Balestier

[Balestier]

22 minutes ago, NeitherHereNorThere said:

Wow wow wow.. what happened to everyone's entitled to their opinions vs can't convince then personal attack.. 😅

Guest mah

[single42]

7 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

 

You need an education to have a character?? You need an education to be selling bak kwa at the shopping malls??

 

We know you are trying to use yourself as living proof that even PhD graduates like you have inferior logic skills compared to someone with lower academic qualifications. But I stand by the fact that graduates from good schools differs from graduates from lousy ones, and your reasoning skills are so poor is simply because you got your PhD degree from a lousy school.

 

First of all, I dun hv a Phd & i never claimed i had one. I am only an N level dropout.