For gays who will be seniors one day - A Steve5380 Topic!

[InBangkok]

On 1/12/2022 at 3:10 PM, Guest Feverish said:

I don't believe Steve is a narcissistic guy, nor someone without much intelligence in explaning away his stories and other old age issues befiting his time and circumstance.  Most times, he enjoyed posting "tongue-in-Cheek" comments to draw attention, but let's leave that to the job of moderator.

You seem not to be aware of posting manners. If you post something that is intended to be read as humorous or "tongue in cheek" there are various ways you can make sure this is understood by everyone - LOL, a cute laughing emoj or even a simple hahaha. Failure to make clear that your post is intended to be seen as humorous results in those reading it to assume it is anything other than humorous. I assume you must be perfectly wlell aware of that. @Steve5380certainly is since he uses all three from time to time in other posts.

 

On 1/12/2022 at 3:10 PM, Guest Feverish said:

This is a very kinky BW forum, people cares not able about tiresome "slandering", even moderator had a fair share of it too, but they are more interested in your naked pictures and nothing else (no pun intended).

Oh really? So you assume this is a kind of x-rated Instagram. Just to enlighten you, it is not. And if you think I am wrong, why don't you list in your next post the number fo threads in this main forum dealing with naked pictures? And then tell us how many are not naked photo related. You will discover that your assumption - and it is only an assumption - is horribly wrong. This is a chat room. As stated at the top of the page, it is for the MATURE Singapore man.

Edited January 12, 2022 by InBangkok

[Guest Sigh]

On 1/12/2022 at 5:16 PM, singalion said:

We don't know the personal situation of InBangkok. Any potential bf of InBangkok on reading BW might have been upset on something that never carried any truth. Posting such things at BW not knowing the truth may even endanger relationships. We should be more cautious to allege things on others, in particular if we are not aware.

 

 

You think too much.  Hypothesis is the mother of all society problems, often used by politicians to lock down dissent, buy votes and strike fear.   I wasted too many words, so let's get back to the topic.

 

At some point, I think people of senior age will need some of form of cares, once their functioning systems start to dis-integrate.  Anyone ever thought of that scenario?

[Guest Feverish]

On 1/12/2022 at 5:58 PM, InBangkok said:

This is a chat room. As stated at the top of the page, it is for the MATURE Singapore man.

Start a topic, and post your naked pictures, hope it doesn't dissappoint,  I can bet within a day, the viewerships will surpass this topic multifold. I rest my case, no more replying from me henceforth.

[singalion]

On 1/12/2022 at 6:12 PM, Guest Feverish said:

Start a topic, and post your naked pictures, hope it doesn't dissappoint,  I can bet within a day, the viewerships will surpass this topic multifold. I rest my case, no more replying from me henceforth.

 

 Do us a favour and read the guidelines on the main forum first:

 

 

 

 

There is no such thing any longer as posting nude content at BW.

 

 

 

[Steve5380]

SIN GA LION,   you posted to me:

 

My main aim was to cool both guys down and get past this continuous brawl, which is not healthy for BW.

 

I think they should aim to settle it in private... instead of going on and on.

 

Steve should sincerely apologise for any wrong (and name what InBangkok hurt most to apologise on the write thing and not keeping the controversial point too general) and

InBangkok should accept it.

 

If you want to make believe that your "main aim" was and is to be a nice impartial person who wants for the conflicting parties to reconcile and make peace,  you again, failed miserably.  You took sides with "the other" to help bash me and this was, and still is, your purpose quoting old posts of mine.  This by itself is completely out of place.  This thread is not a place to vent your personal disagreements with the TS  (yes, personal) bringing up his previous writings as alleged "proof" of your disagreement. 

 

And you should know, but you fail to recognize, that I already apologized to InBangkok.  I did it twice,  on PM, apology he rejected, and in the thread  "Opera Queens in Singapore".  You surely read the whole discussions, since you were also partially involved in them 

 

Here is my post that set InBangkok's fuse on fire:

 

Posted December 30, 2020 (edited)

  On 12/29/2020 at 11:39 PM, InBangkok said:

It seems you are prepared to continue with this rubbish! Do you not realise that equating gay sex in a sauna to a live performance of western opera is indeed rubbish, frankly? There is zero correlation in a thread devoted to live performances of western opera (as clearly stated in two posts by the TS).

 

As for suggesting that "real men found their way into this thread" is a reason why it has been abandoned by the TS, that too is not just plain nonsense, sad to say it is an insult to the TS. Please apologise to him. Oh, and who might be the real men, I wonder?

 

 

I have to recognize that I am very, very surprised by your comment.  And a little disillusioned too.  I thought that you were more rational.  You seem horrified that I place opera houses and gay saunas on an equal standing!  I find them equals as places of entertainment with live actors, although the type of acting is different.

 

Unlike you, I don't think that opera belongs on a high pedestal of morality. Far from it.  An opera house is not a cathedral.

And I don't think that a gay sauna is a joint of perversion. I DON"T HOLD HOMOSEXUAL SEX AS IMMORAL!!

 

And here you of all persons, find this rubbish,  you who enjoy opera houses AND gay saunas, as you have said repeatedly.  I hope for your good that you also perform live in gay saunas, where you should not worry about your age as long as you take steps to remain somewhat attractive,  and you could also sing arias there since you know their melody.

 

Opera in gay saunas fits well within the topic of this thread,  since the TS choose to put in the name "opera-queens".  This is a SLANG somewhat demeaning expression referring to gay men who love opera because they are effeminate.  This is what "queens" mean. And I have remarqued in my first post here,  that I may be an opera-fan,  but NOT an opera-queen.

 

I know that homosexual men can be REAL men.  (and there are heterosexual men who are effeminate). I know it because this is what I am, and I am proud of it.   It would be so positive if you could feel the same way....

 

It would be helpful if you do some introspection and reconsider.  I keep some hope of that   

 

P.D....  

You must have noticed that most of my posts at BW are done in a spirit of humor.  Life is good to me and I have all reasons to be in excellent mood.  And life is short!  Why waste it in anger?  But you appear to be so dead serious!  So easily irritated!  The other day in the Instrumental Music thread you showed a spark of humor after you mistakenly wrote "after death" instead of "before death".  This is it!  This is the way to take it, but holding the humor all the time! 

 

Cheer up Man!  Nothing is important here,  the thread, the TS, the live music, the recorded music. This is nothing but an opportunity to chat about our beloved music, and maybe jest with some friendly punches.  Life is good!  

 

 

On this post I innocently wrote the FATAL PHRASE:  "And here you of all persons, find this rubbish,  you who enjoy opera houses AND gay saunas, as you have said repeatedly.",  referring to his review of the old Rairua sauna.  And this simple phrase, where maybe I had misinterpreted his sauna review,  set of the explosion that lead to THE BIG ANGER.  Notice that I also in my P.D. made him aware that I write in a spirit of humor,  so he should not take it so seriously.  How can one take a similarity between an opera house and a gay sauna... seriously?

 

What followed were endless discussions, he claimed that I had made an "outright lie", while I said that I made an involuntary misinterpretation,  and then discussion went to the difference between "outright lie" and "lie". 

 

In the end, InBangkok wrote his Letter of Resignation,  not before bashing me further:

 

 

You write you consider yourself a "role model in many aspects of life". That is again so typical of what you write. Sadly it is so patently false. I hope no young Singaporean falls for that. You are in fact a self-centred egotist living 10,000 miles from Singapore , a near octogenarian who lives alone spending much of the day consoling yourself by playing pianos and watching youtube videos ad nauseam munching your snacks because you have not the slightest interest in any form of live performance, a sad man who realises that with time marching on your chances of returning to enjoy even more casual sex in Singapore and other Asian cities with Asian boys who could easily be your grandchildren is fast disappearing. An old man who beautifies himself with hair transplants, regular botox injections and regular exercise hoping against hope to postpone the ravages of time which will surely come soon. With covid19 having ruined your plans for a return to Singapore for at least 18 months and probably longer, you have turned your considerable frustrations on those who actual enjoy a fulfilling relationship and a fulfilling life. You can't bear that thought. 

 

I would have accepted your apology. But you are incapable of leaving an attack until the moderator steps in - as he has done before - and bans you for a period of time. With your latest rant against me, I want nothing to do with your deranged personality. I am leaving this thread and this forum. I thank the other contributors to this and the Instrumental Music sites. I hope I have been able to make meaningful and occasionally informative posts. I am pleased to have been given the opportunity to contribute. For your sakes, my last hope is that @Steve5380 will not continue to destroy these threads.

to which I replied promptly: 

 

Posted January 3, 2021 (edited)

Well... I did what I thought was timely apologizing to you, but it may not have helped.

 

Your above post shows some feelings that are unexpected. I am simply one more gay who likes to participate in this forum, even if I live over 6,000 miles away.  I did not imagine that an insignificant anonymous individual like me would affect your freedom to participate in this forum. I am saddened by your decision to leave, and I feel I have failed in handling this situation with the sensitivity, friendliness, positive approach I should have. Please forgive my mistakes.  I apologize again, and if this is not sufficient,  I wish you all the best   

 

 

This post of mine had no effect.  He left the forum for some time,  then he slowly returned,  apparently neutral,  but not for long!  His statement in his Letter of Resignation that: "I want nothing to do with your deranged personality",  he has forgotten and now he wants MUCH to do with my deranged personality, everywhere in BW...

 

So, SIN GA LION,  if you want to do something positive for a change, talk with @InBangkok.  Explain to him that he should forget the ills of the past and return to BW with a true spirit of reconciliation.  You could tell him also to apologize to me to make this reciprocal, but there is no need for that.  I have never been angry, and all his attacks have rebounded on my thick skin. I hold no ill feelings towards him. 

 

It would be nice if he returns holding an olive branch,  not to cover himself, but as a gesture of peace.   

 

AND NOW, PLEASE BACK TO THE TOPIC:  For Gays who will be Seniors.  

.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Steve5380

[singalion]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:01 AM, Steve5380 said:

If you want to make believe that your "main aim" was and is to be a nice impartial person who wants for the conflicting parties to reconcile and make peace,  you again, failed miserably.  You took sides with "the other" to help bash me and this was, and still is, your purpose quoting old posts of mine.  This by itself is completely out of place.  This thread is not a place to vent your personal disagreements with the TS  (yes, personal) bringing up his previous writings as alleged "proof" of your disagreement. 

 

It is your personal opinion or imagination that I "bashed you.

 

At no point ever I "bashed you".

 

Did it come to your mind that impartial judges review evidence.

 

The aim of the posts was to demonstrate what you posted yourself and objecting to your naming it as "falsities" .

 

How can a post solely containing your own posts serve as "bashing"...???

 

I did not even place any note, comment other than "for the record" at the post.

 

I explained the background in a later post.

 

[Steve5380]

On 1/12/2022 at 4:02 AM, Guest Sigh said:

You think too much.  Hypothesis is the mother of all society problems, often used by politicians to lock down dissent, buy votes and strike fear.   I wasted too many words, so let's get back to the topic.

 

At some point, I think people of senior age will need some of form of cares, once their functioning systems start to dis-integrate.  Anyone ever thought of that scenario?

 

Yes, he thinks too much.  Hypothesis is fine if it is the result of intelligent analysis, but not in this case.

 

About people of senior age:

Not all seniors we need special care due to dysfunctional systems or mind.  It is time that younger folk start thinking of this desirable scenario of preserving health and reason.  This is what this thread is about. 

 

What seniors DO need is some respect from younger people.  Not that this respect has been necessarily earned throughout life, but because to be a senior, an older man,  is a distinction of having navigated a long life with all its natural obstacles, which not everyone does,  and having overcome all the constant threats to one's life with honesty and integrity.  It is in a way,  a Badge of Honor.   Hopefully you aim for this same Badge!   

.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Steve5380

[singalion]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:01 AM, Steve5380 said:

So, SIN GA LION,  if you want to do something positive for a change, talk with @InBangkok.  Explain to him that he should forget the ills of the past and return to BW with a true spirit of reconciliation.  You could tell him also to apologize to me to make this reciprocal, but there is no need for that.  I have never been angry, and all his attacks have rebounded on my thick skin. I hold no ill feelings towards him. 

 

It would be nice if he returns holding an olive branch,  not to cover himself, but as a gesture of peace.

 

In all impartiality here, may we assume that you meant

 

"Your" ills of the past.

 

An apology must be honest and from the heart.

 

It is not honest if it is not serious.

 

The way you draft the words here as if it was InBangkok who is or was the main culprit.

 

Eventually, you still did not take note that it was you who broke of the fight with your insulting and wrong allegations against InBangkok.

 

 

 

 

[Steve5380]

My response to SIN GA LION:

 

And who nominated you as a JUDGE? 

 

A person who want to assist two people who are in conflict,  should NEVER act as a judge, impartial or not.  He should NEVER tell one of them:  "you are the guilty one and should apologize to your opponent, who is the innocent".  This will NEVER work!    Instead, he should approach both at the same level, without any insinuation of guilt or innocence, and talk them into giving up their fight.  

 

And you are far from impartial.  As I have explained, you know perfectly well that I had apologized to InBangkok  at the time.  Yet, you come again saying that I must apologize,  like I am the guilty party.

[singalion]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:01 AM, Steve5380 said:

So, SIN GA LION,  if you want to do something positive for a change, talk with @InBangkok.  Explain to him that he should forget the ills of the past and return to BW with a true spirit of reconciliation.  You could tell him also to apologize to me to make this reciprocal, but there is no need for that.  I have never been angry, and all his attacks have rebounded on my thick skin. I hold no ill feelings towards him. 

 

It would be nice if he returns holding an olive branch,  not to cover himself, but as a gesture of peace

 

If you had not been angry with InBangkok at all, then why do you turn circles to always attack him more and more?

 

From your retorting posts it does not at all sound like you have no ill feelings towards him...

 

To me that looks just the opposite.

 

 

You should just address the real issue and write that you assumed things on him that were untrue and that you had no knowledge off at all (aka the sauna visit issue).

 

Let's clear the air for once and all.

 

 

As you may also acknowledge I took various steps to close this chapter of dispute between both of you!

It is not healthy for BW to read your brawls at every corner and near to every thread where you post something...

(that is where I am coming from, and surely, I haven't been the only Member here commenting on this conflict).

 

 

[Steve5380]

And my response to the subsequent post of SIN GA LION:

 

You really have nerve saying that you are impartial and then putting the blame on me.  Shame on you.  I think that I should write this:

 

Stay out of this.  If you are not involved in the argument, then STAY OUT OF IT.  No one has asked you to intervene, as judge, counselor or whatever.  You are making things WORSE.  Please turn your attention to judge YOURSELF.

 

I am planning to post about a useful book, "12 Rules for Life",  which I think will be perfect to teach you some rules.

[singalion]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:16 AM, singalion said:

Did it come to your mind that impartial judges review evidence.

 

That was just an example!

 

Impartiality mostly applies to judges/mediators, arbitrators etc.

 

I don't judge anything whether you visit gay saunas 24/7 during your holidays or whether you spent 24/7 at a beach or visiting temples in Asia. It doesn't bother to me.

 

[singalion]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:50 AM, Steve5380 said:

And my response to the subsequent post of SIN GA LION:

 

You really have nerve saying that you are impartial and then putting the blame on me.  Shame on you.  I think that I should write this:

 

Stay out of this.  If you are not involved in the argument, then STAY OUT OF IT.  No one has asked you to intervene, as judge, counselor or whatever.  You are making things WORSE.  Please turn your attention to judge YOURSELF.

 

I am planning to post about a useful book, "12 Rules for Life",  which I think will be perfect to teach you some rules.

 

Sorry but fights have a starting point. We all are aware what caused the commotion here.

 

If the Spartans attacked the Persians, then surely someone is to blame objectively for having caused the issue.

 

 

 

Read again:

It is not healthy for BW to read your brawls at every corner and near to every thread where you post something...

(that is where I am coming from, and surely, I haven't been the only Member here commenting on this conflict).

 

[singalion]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:43 AM, Steve5380 said:

A person who want to assist two people who are in conflict,  should NEVER act as a judge, impartial or not.  He should NEVER tell one of them:  "you are the guilty one and should apologize to your opponent, who is the innocent".  This will NEVER work!    Instead, he should approach both at the same level, without any insinuation of guilt or innocence, and talk them into giving up their fight.  

 

So you want to say, judges do not decide on guilt, causation of a conflict and damages?

 

Hm, that is a bit far fledged if not irrational in my view...

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by singalion

[G_M]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:51 AM, singalion said:

 

That was just an example!

 

Impartiality mostly applies to judges/mediators, arbitrators etc.

 

I don't judge anything whether you visit gay saunas 24/7 during your holidays or whether you spent 24/7 at a beach or visiting temples in Asia. It doesn't bother to me.

 

 

On 1/13/2022 at 1:56 AM, singalion said:

 

Sorry but fights have a starting point. We all are aware what caused the commotion here.

 

If the Spartans attacked the Persians, then surely someone is to blame objectively for having caused the issue.

 

 

 

Read again:

It is not healthy for BW to read your brawls at every corner and near to every thread where you post something...

(that is where I am coming from, and surely, I haven't been the only Member here commenting on this conflict).

 

 

On 1/13/2022 at 1:59 AM, singalion said:

 

So you want to say, judges do not decide on guilt, causation of a conflict and damages?

 

Hm, that is a bit far fledged if not irrational in my view...

 

 

Hello, @singalion did you not see that this is @Steve5380's Topic?

 

Go start your own topic and stop tying to divert the topic!

 

See @Steve5380 He is like you. You both are so alike in every way.

Now you know how irritating it is, having someone  arguing in every topics that are discussed.

 

You 2 deserves each other.

 

You 2

[Steve5380]

On 1/12/2022 at 2:14 PM, G_M said:

 

 

 

Hello, @singalion did you not see that this is @Steve5380's Topic?

 

Go start your own topic and stop tying to divert the topic!

 

See @Steve5380 He is like you. You both are so alike in every way.

Now you know how irritating it is, having someone  arguing in every topics that are discussed.

 

You 2 deserves each other.

 

You 2

 

Hey,  Cheers SIN GA LION.  It seems that we both are receiving a lesson. 

 

Let's see if we can both change together.   

[Guest Gummy bear]

On 1/13/2022 at 4:25 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

Hey,  Cheers SIN GA LION.  It seems that we both are receiving a lesson. 

 

Let's see if we can both change together.   

You should be more capable of changing rather than him. A good headstart is to ignore his posts and move on to the actual topic. Soon, he will find you uninteresting to bash and then moved along sensibly. Friction will naturally stop when one object do not correspond to another. 

[Steve5380]

On 1/12/2022 at 3:37 PM, Guest Gummy bear said:

You should be more capable of changing rather than him. A good headstart is to ignore his posts and move on to the actual topic. Soon, he will find you uninteresting to bash and then moved along sensibly. Friction will naturally stop when one object do not correspond to another. 

 

Gummy bear,  thank you for your good advice.  An argumentative post made to us to elicit our response,  may have to wait forever if we don't respond.  It is like having a discussion with the wall.  It can be boring.

 

I like gelatin, and I like the view and the taste of gummy bears.  I don't have the patience of making the small blocks, I simply buy in the store a package of unsweetened lime gelatin, my favorite, and make it in bulk.  Very simple to make, good tasting, and allegedly good for the bones and ligaments.

 

I am making the purpose to remember your advice  if harassing posts come again.  But I am...  afraid... of seeking purpose, because apparently...  we should not have purpose in life!   Here is an interesting talk by the Indian Guru, who takes purpose more seriously than I do, and he might be right:  😄

 

 

Surprising opinion of guru Sadhguru about purpose of life,  isn't it?  One would think that to have a purpose is important, nearly fundamental.  Notice how he giggles at the idea of "divine purpose".  This man must be an agnostic through and through,  ha ha.

 

I think that his advice is good:  to live with the only purpose of being alive,  to live as long as possible,  to plan for LONGEVITY,  to do what helps to become a healthy, functional senior. 

.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Steve5380

[Guest STILL AS STEEL]

On 1/13/2022 at 6:29 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

Gummy bear,  thank you for your good advice.  An argumentative post made to us to elicit our response,  may have to wait forever if we don't respond.  It is like having a discussion with the wall.  It can be boring.

 

Boring is a subjective word.  It was like watching a leaf fall from the tree.  Either you perceived it as peaceful or irritating to the soul.  I have avoided many obstacles and dangers in life, simply by KEEPING STILL which irritates a tones of people around me.

[singalion]

June 12, 2021

Sex and Seniors: The 70-Year Itch

 

Horny old broads, dirty old men. These commonly used terms speak volumes about how society views older people who are interested in sex.

 

Experts say such derogatory labels reflect a deep level of discomfort in our youth-oriented culture with the idea that seniors are sexually active. Sex is identified with reproduction, youthful attractiveness, and power -- and most young and even middle-aged people do not want to confront the inevitability of growing old.

So sexual intimacy among older Americans is a subject that people don't talk about much. The silence, say experts, allows misconceptions to flourish -- including the widespread assumption that seniors lose interest in sex and are, or should be, asexual.

 

But armed with a spate of studies that help dispel the myth that older people don't have sex or enjoy it, experts say the negative stereotypes couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

 

"There is no age limit on sexuality and sexual activity," reports Stephanie A. Sanders, PhD, a senior scientist at the sexual research group The Kinsey Institute at Indiana University. While the frequency or ability to perform sexually will generally decline modestly as seniors experience the normal physiological changes that accompany aging, reports show that the majority of men and women between the ages of 50 and 80 are still enthusiastic about sex and intimacy.

 

"Use it or lose it," says geriatrics expert Walter M. Bortz, author of three books on healthy aging as well as several studies on seniors' sexuality. Dr. Bortz, a professor at Stanford Medical School, is past president of the American Geriatrics Society and former co-chair of the American Medical Association's Task Force on Aging.

 

"If you stay interested, stay healthy, stay off medications, and have a good mate, then you can have good sex all the way to the end of life," he says.

 

After grieving for several years over her husband's death from Alzheimer's, Wellborn began a new relationship with a man in his 80s. They occasionally have sex, but mostly they enjoy each other's company, she says. "He wants so badly to have an erection, but it's hard for him," she says. "It might be the heart medication he's taking that causes the problem, because he's a very virile man. So we just have sex in a different way -- I don't mind at all -- and we're also very affectionate. He says it's so nice to wake up next to me."

 

 

Sex is different but not diminished

 

Seniors can devote more time and energy to improving their love lives. And while some seniors may be forced to give up strenuous sports, sex is a physical pleasure many older people readily enjoy.

 

A clear majority of men and women age 45 and up say a satisfying sexual relationship is important to the quality of life, according to a survey by the AARP (the organization formerly known as the American Association of Retired Persons). Nearly two-thirds said they were interested in sex, and more than 40% of Americans 65 to 80 are sexually active, according to a 2018 survey.

 

New treatments for sexual problems

Both men and women can expect normal physiological changes as they age that may affect the way they experience sex. Experts say these changes are not usually a barrier to enjoying a healthy sex life, but couples may have to take more time for arousal.

 

Postmenopausal women, for example, have lower levels of the hormone estrogen, which in turn decreases vaginal lubrication and elasticity. In many cases, dryness can be relieved by something as simple as using a water-based lubricant like KY Jelly. Doctors can offer other remedies for more difficult cases.

 

Men may suffer from impotence or have more difficulty achieving and sustaining erections as their blood circulation slows and testosterone levels decrease. Impotence is also more prevalent in men who have a history of heart disease, hypertension, or diabetes. Now, however, sildenafil citrate (Viagra), vardenafil (Levitra), and tadalafil (Cialis) have aided some older men who weren't helped by other treatments. (Some experts, in fact, worry that these drugs may cause an upsurge in AIDS in people over 50, because they are not likely to take precautions; they urge older people who are dating to practice safe sex.)

 

 

The physical changes that occur with age can give older people a chance to revitalize their lovemaking by focusing more on intimacy and closeness instead of sex alone. Often less preoccupied with performance, they can express their affection and closeness in other ways, such as cuddling, kissing, and stroking.

 

"Sex is being warm and caring; sex isn't just sex," says Christopher Rhoades,* 66, a San Francisco Bay Area college professor who's been married for 18 years. "It feels good to lay next to a naked woman's body."

 

For men, "biology or hydraulics" is the biggest impediment to sex later in life, says Dr. Bortz. "For women, it's opportunity and availability."

 

[singalion]

The article was just published today ha ha

The Joys (and Challenges) of Sex After 70

Sex can drop off in our final decades.

Jan. 12, 2022

 

 

Even with Viagra, David can’t always have a full erection, but they usually have intercourse regardless; sometimes he has a dry orgasm, where he doesn’t produce enough semen to ejaculate. The missionary position no longer works for them — David has put on weight and would be too heavy. Instead, he often lies behind Anne and puts one leg between hers, the other to the side.

 

They explore and try new things. Last summer they began doing what’s known as edging. During oral sex, David stops just when Anne is on the verge of climaxing. He repeats it a couple of times to build up the intensity before she finally has an orgasm.

 

It’s not surprising that sex can diminish with age: Estrogen typically drops in women, which may lead to vaginal dryness and, in turn, pain. Testosterone declines for women and men, and erection problems become more commonplace.

 

In a 2007 New England Journal of Medicine study of a representative sample of the U.S. population, Dr. Stacy Tessler Lindau, a professor of obstetrics-gynecology and geriatrics at the University of Chicago, and colleagues surveyed more than 3,000 older adults, single and partnered, about sex (defined as “any mutually voluntary activity with another person that involves sexual contact, whether or not intercourse or orgasm occurs”). They found that 53 percent of participants ages 65 to 74 had sex at least once in the previous year. In the 75-to-85 age group, only 26 percent did. (Lindau notes that a major determinant of sexual activity is whether one has a partner or not — and many older people are widowed, separated or divorced.) In contrast, among people ages 57 to 64, 73 percent had sex at least once in the previous year.

 

 

There’s a poignant paradox about older people and sex. As our worlds get smaller — work slows down or ends, physical abilities recede, traveling gets more challenging, friendship circles narrow as people die — we tend to have more time and inclination to savor the parts of our lives that are emotionally meaningful, which can include sex. But because bodies change, good sex in old age often needs reimagining, expanding, for example, to include more touching, kissing, erotic massage, oral sex, sex toys.

 

 

If a man complains of erectile problems, doctors often offer drugs like Viagra and Cialis. But these can have side effects and are contraindicated with some medications. Plus, prescribing them presumes intercourse should be the goal.

 

 

In 2005, Peggy J. Kleinplatz, a professor of medicine at the University of Ottawa and a sex researcher, began interviewing people who have built rich and intimate sex lives. For decades, much of sex research focused on dysfunction. In contrast, Kleinplatz, who directs the Optimal Sexual Experiences Research Team at the university, explores the aspects of deeply fulfilling sex that hold true regardless of other factors: age, health, socioeconomic status and so on. (Her work also includes L.G.B.T.Q. couples, polyamorous couples and people who are into kink and B.D.S.M.)

 

 

Another researcher, Jane Fleishman, the author of “The Stonewall Generation: L.G.B.T.Q. Elders on Sex, Activism and Aging,” told me she sees signs of greater interest in older sexuality from academics, therapists and others who work with older people. She offers sex-education trainings — including about sexually transmitted infections, which have been on the rise among older people — at senior-living communities and to professionals. When I first met her, in 2019, she was invited to only a smattering of places. Now she speaks more frequently at geriatric conferences and at clinical grand rounds in hospitals.

 

There are small inroads in the media, too. Several years ago, the TV show “Grace and Frankie” devoted a season to Jane Fonda’s and Lily Tomlin’s characters creating and marketing ergonomically correct vibrators for older women. And last year, Ogilvy UK created a pro bono ad campaign, “Let’s Talk the Joy of Later Life Sex,” for one of England’s largest providers of relationship support. The campaign features 11 people ages 65 to 85. Five of them are couples — straight, gay — and one is a widowed woman. They sit on a couch in plush white robes. “As we get older, we get more experimental,” one woman says, sitting next to her husband. A man talks about his feet touching his husband’s feet in bed. “It’s moments like that that are important to you, as much as, you know, banging each other’s brains out.”

 

Several years ago, Price approached the founders of Hot Octopuss, a sex-toy company, after finding that their products worked well for aging bodies but noticing that the photos on their home page were of the “young and tattooed,” as she put it. “It was a real sit-up-and-think moment for us,” Julia Margo, a Hot Octopuss co-founder, told me. In 2020, the company, with Price’s help, added a section called “Senior Sex Hub.” It includes resources like videos with Price talking about sex and aging, along with photos of people in their 60s and 70s and Hot Octopuss’s products for people with “older vulvas” and “older penises,” including a penis vibrator that can be used without an erection.

 

For a man named Patrick, too, intimacy and sexuality have deepened over the years, in his case both with his partner and, when it comes to sex, outside his relationship. A retired therapist in his mid-70s, Patrick, who is gay, has been with his partner more than 30 years, and over time they developed a ritual in which they trade off every Sunday: One person gives a massage one week, the other the next, followed by kissing, touching and oral sex. Though Patrick wanted to have anal sex, his partner was no longer interested.

 

So years ago, he posted on a gay dating website for older people, writing that he was seeking men for anal sex. (His partner gave his blessing and took the profile photos.) And now, every so often, his partner leaves the house, and one of a few men arrive for sex. As a gay man, Patrick said, “one of my intentions in life is that coming out is not an event, it’s a process. Every day I try to find a way to come out more.” Having the variety of sex he desires is “my sense of carpe diem. It’s integrating pieces of myself I’ve pushed aside.”

 

One therapist I spoke to, Sabitha Pillai-Friedman, said that some of her older clients also wanted to expand sex by doing something “more edgy.” So Pillai-Friedman, who is a relationship and sex therapist, as well as an associate professor at the Center for Human Sexuality Studies at Widener University, began suggesting that they consider role playing and using mild restraints and blindfolds. Those who tried it told her it unleashed a playfulness between them. “When bodies are not cooperating,” as Pillai-Friedman told me, “why not eroticize their minds?”

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/12/magazine/sex-old-age.html

 

The article is quite interesting.

 

Takeaways:

People in a relationship may enjoy a better sex live in the old days.

You should never stop on having sex... (what maybe takes some of the bad remarks of older uncles in saunas)

The shift is more to intimacy than "performance".

 

 

At least we gay men don't have that lube issue like women in the older age, haha (as we are aware of lubricants and their benefits).

 

Enjoy reading.

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by singalion

[Steve5380]

On 1/12/2022 at 12:34 AM, Guest Feverish said:

 

This is a very fluid world and I can't tell exactly what I am thinking even a month or a year later.    So let's stick to the topic for what it is and not steer to much wasy from what is already a very complicated world.

 

On that note,  I would like to ask Steve what his next plan is, as he moved toward his twilight light year of 80 and beyond.  Specifically,  anything that he wished to achieve or make his dream come true, or plan of stay in a community old folks home after having lived a riped age?

 

 

Thank you Feverish.  You are right that this is already a very complicated world.  And it seems that recently it has become much more complicated, and dangerous.  This is the world,  but we as individuals can detach ourselves from such complications as best as possible.

 

What is my plan from here on?  Like the Indian Guru I posted earlier recommended,  I don't have a purpose.  I don't need any purpose.  I live now alone,  I am divorced and I have a nice family of children and grandchildren.  I have a sister who will soon be 83 years old, living also alone in another state.  We are planning for her to come to Houston and live with me.  I look forward very much to this.  She has health problems, but is stable.  When the world returns to normal, we plan to make a trip back to our city of origin, Buenos Aires, to see the old places and visit some family and friends there.  If her health allows, we then want to visit more of Europe, like to Germany where our family came from.  We will care for each other,  and the "old folks community" will be my home with two oldies there.

 

I plan to keep up with my physical activities,  gym workouts and Aikido practice, and spend the rest of the time with intellectual and spiritual activities. Will I continue with my sex tourism?  Perhaps, but somewhat less.  I am not thinking of starting another relationship after the one with my late bf.  But one never knows, ha ha.  I already feel that I have my share of life,  but another 10 or 20 years could be welcomed, if in reasonable health.   I care about my grandchildren, of course,  but in 30 or so years I expect that this whole Universe will not exist anymore for me, so I don't worry    

[InBangkok]

On 1/13/2022 at 12:01 AM, Steve5380 said:

And you should know, but you fail to recognize, that I already apologized to InBangkok.  I did it twice,  on PM, apology he rejected, and in the thread  "Opera Queens in Singapore". 

Why do you continue to lie? Clearly because the old age that is the subject of this thread also affects the brain and is affecting your memory. PMs have absolutely no place in the main forum for the simple reason that other readers are unable to read them. That is why they are PRIVATE. But you have decided that you are so self important that you can betray that PM trust.

 

Tell the truth. You never did apologise in the thread. I state again YOU NEVER APOLOGISED. First you wanted me to apologise to you - for what i never really found out. 

 

Eventually after a series of posts you wrote this on 01/01/2021 - "I am willing to apologize for my memory lapse  (in spite of the above post) after you apologize for having called me a liar."

 

In other words, you wanted ME to apologise for stating the truth BEFORE YOU actually apologised to me for involving my partner is a disgraceful post. I responded that I would accept the apology but only unconditionally. You refused, That is fact.

 

So when you allegedly quote what has been written, please stick to actual posts in actual threads and provide dates so they can be checked for veracity.

 

Perhaps it is timely that fading memories have become part of this discussion about old age. For that is surely one of the most worrying facts about becoming a senior, particularly if you are a senior living alone. I suspect some readers of BW are also thinking of this and it is a very good reason for airing the key issues of dementia and alzheimer's. @Steve5380claims to be perfectly ift and healthy. For that i am happy for him. As I am for all who reach that age and are physically and mentally able to look forward to a continuation of a fulfilling life. But what are the red flags that seniors should be worried about - when they reach 78 and not when they are in their earlier years?

Edited January 13, 2022 by InBangkok

[Guest You know who]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:21 PM, Steve5380 said:

 I don't have a purpose.  I live now alone,  plan to make a trip back to our city of origin, Buenos Aires, to see the old places and visit some family and friends there.  If her health allows, we then want to visit more of Europe, like to Germany where our family came from.  We will care for each other,  and the "old folks community" will be my home with two oldies there.

 

I plan to keep up with my physical activities,  gym workouts and Aikido practice, and spend the rest of the time with intellectual and spiritual activities.  I am not thinking of starting another relationship after the one with my late bf.  but another 10 or 20 years could be welcomed, if in reasonable health.   

Ya, seems like living on borrowed times and doing all you could, to return to memory lane and appreciate every gone chapter and reminisce tempora lifespan of being mortal in this ever changing world.  Each wave of generations will always be superseded by another, and another and the old waves just dissappeared or evaporated into space.  On that note, don't take everything seriously when under pressure. 

[singalion]

What I always propagated: 

 

Keep up with social activities and friends until old age, do activities.

Don't sit just at your smartphone and PC and think you socially interact!

 

 

Social isolation, loneliness in older people pose health risks

April 23, 2019

 

Human beings are social creatures. Our connection to others enables us to survive and thrive. Yet, as we age, many of us are alone more often than when we were younger, leaving us vulnerable to social isolation and loneliness—and related health problems such as cognitive decline, depression, and heart disease. Fortunately, there are ways to counteract these negative effects.

 

 

Health effects of social isolation, loneliness

Research has linked social isolation and loneliness to higher risks for a variety of physical and mental conditions: high blood pressure, heart disease, obesity, a weakened immune system, anxiety, depression, cognitive decline, Alzheimer’s disease, and even death.

 

 

People who find themselves unexpectedly alone due to the death of a spouse or partner, separation from friends or family, retirement, loss of mobility, and lack of transportation are at particular risk.

 

Conversely, people who engage in meaningful, productive activities with others tend to live longer, boost their mood, and have a sense of purpose. These activities seem to help maintain their well-being and may improve their cognitive function, studies show.

 

Breaking ground in loneliness research

 

Much of what we know about the causes and effects of social isolation and loneliness comes from the groundbreaking research of the late John T. Cacioppo, Ph.D., former director of the Center for Cognitive and Social Neuroscience at the University of Chicago and an NIA grantee.

 

 

Dr. Cacioppo’s research found that being alone and loneliness are different but related. Social isolation is the objective physical separation from other people (living alone), while loneliness is the subjective distressed feeling of being alone or separated. It’s possible to feel lonely while among other people, and you can be alone yet not feel lonely.

 

 

A pioneer in the field of social neuroscience, Dr. Cacioppo passed away in March 2018. His wife and collaborator, Stephanie Cacioppo, Ph.D., continues this work as assistant professor of psychiatry and behavioral neuroscience at the University of Chicago and director of the university’s NIA-supported Brain Dynamics Laboratory.

 

“The misery and suffering caused by chronic loneliness are very real and warrant attention,” she said. “As a social species, we are accountable to help our lonely children, parents, neighbors, and even strangers in the same way we would treat ourselves. Treating loneliness is our collective responsibility.”

 

Although there is more to learn, the understanding of the mechanisms of action of loneliness and its treatment has increased dramatically since scientific investigation began more than two decades ago, according to Dr. Stephanie Cacioppo. Among the novel predictions from the Cacioppo Evolutionary Theory of Loneliness

is that loneliness automatically triggers a set of related behavioral and biological processes that contribute to the association between loneliness and premature death in people of all ages. Research is headed toward the systematic study of these processes across generations, Dr. Cacioppo explained. 

 

 

Understanding the biology of loneliness

Losing a sense of connection and community changes a person’s perception of the world. Someone experiencing chronic loneliness feels threatened and mistrustful of others, which activates a biological defense mechanism, according to Steve Cole, Ph.D., director of the Social Genomics Core Laboratory at the University of California, Los Angeles. His NIA-funded research focuses on understanding the physiological pathways of loneliness (the different ways that loneliness affects how your mind and body function) and developing social and psychological interventions to combat it.

 

 

For example, loneliness may alter the tendency of cells in the immune system to promote inflammation, which is necessary to help our bodies heal from injury, Dr. Cole said. But inflammation that lasts too long increases the risk of chronic diseases.

 

Loneliness acts as a fertilizer for other diseases,” Dr. Cole said. “The biology of loneliness can accelerate the buildup of plaque in arteries, help cancer cells grow and spread, and promote inflammation in the brain leading to Alzheimer’s disease. Loneliness promotes several different types of wear and tear on the body.

People who feel lonely may also have weakened immune cells that have trouble fighting off viruses, which makes them more vulnerable to some infectious diseases, he added.

 

 

NIA-supported research by Dr. Cole and others shows that having a sense of mission and purpose in life is linked to healthier immune cells. Helping others through caregiving or volunteering also helps people feel less lonely.

“Working for a social cause or purpose with others who share your values and are trusted partners puts you in contact with others and helps develop a greater sense of community,” he noted.

 

 

=> Maintain meaningful social contacts and activities with other people, don't stay lonely in your home or just in front of your computer or smartphone!

 

 

[Guest Very Stimulated]

On 1/13/2022 at 2:37 PM, singalion said:

What I always propagated: 

 

Keep up with social activities and friends until old age, do activities.

Don't sit just at your smartphone and PC and think you socially interact!

 

 

Propaganda must also befit the time and age in this modern and educated world.   Physical social activities which are not very stimulating is not a good form of interaction.  I have seen old folks gathered together, led by social workers and then asked to perform the most mundane and dumbed stuffs just to pass time.  If internet can help me grow intellectually and provide tremendous amount of entertainment to keep me fully occupied, why do I need to "social interact" for the sake of making the unstimulating people happy?

[singalion]

On 1/13/2022 at 3:58 PM, Guest Very Stimulated said:

Propaganda must also befit the time and age in this modern and educated world.   Physical social activities which are not very stimulating is not a good form of interaction.  I have seen old folks gathered together, led by social workers and then asked to perform the most mundane and dumbed stuffs just to pass time.  If internet can help me grow intellectually and provide tremendous amount of entertainment to keep me fully occupied, why do I need to "social interact" for the sake of making the unstimulating people happy?

 

Physical social activities and sports would be part of a different post.

 

The point here is: Elderly people should not require to have social workers to "stimulate them" to do physical activities.

 

My parents both join sports groups on their own. In fact they are often that busy that you need to arrange for appointments to be able to talk to them. While I admit, the pandemic has affected their sports program and social activities. To compensate for the loss they did more hiking and walking and some home training.

 

However, you need to look at the mental state of elderly people also. If dementia started, then mundane and dumb stuffs might be appropriate to keep these elderly people busy with something.

 

 

[Guest G2020]

Loneliness is bad for those who don't know how to spend their time. I've seen those at the void decks with the hollow look, just waiting to die.

But then those who seek peace and quietness in the mountains or seaside villages are the most long lived. They keep busy and healthy or they meditate.

 

But most damaging is the stigma that loneliness is for losers, the weak, the social discards.

That's where those social workers are making those old folks feel useless.

 

I'm staying alone and seldom interact with my peers. I don't feel that I'm lonely or I owe anybody any explanation of how to spend my time. The bottom line is that I'm hale & healthy, youthful looking compared to most of them. I know that the moment there a gathering, they'll do comparisons. I simply smile and look them in the face, "what I have is all in me, not my house, my car, my money and all those things I can't carry with me."

I've been known to have a sharp tongue and quick mind, nobody dares to mess with me though I'm the quiet type. 

In fact most of them think they've achieved and want to enjoy life by letting themselves go, eat good food, have maid and don't do anything the whole day, lazy to exercise, be busybody, buy the best clothes but looking like a fat dumpling wearing them.

Some of them always say they'll go vegetarian but talk only. I said that there are many other aspects of their lives that also need to go "vegetarian" in principle because they over-consume. They don't fully understand me but they also know that if they argue with me then they'll be questioning their smugness. They shut up and I'll ignore them.

[Guest Stimulated]

On 1/13/2022 at 5:54 PM, singalion said:

The point here is: Elderly people should not require to have social workers to "stimulate them" to do physical activities.

In Singapore, it has became quite a political move to hassle certain group of "less priviledged" elderly or those staying in small size flat to mingle with similar age group of people.  My mom felt irritated when the social worker kept knocking on our door while she was taking her nap or needed a longer sleep in the morning.  Her days were full doing laundry, cooking simple meal and watching her favourite Korean or Taiwanese TV drama and also tended to various potted plants.   She enjoyed less interaction, and more so with strangers.  Her only interaction is the once weekly visit to the wet market to catch up with regular known people.   To each their own preference.  There should not be any standard protocols to impose on elderly their own preference lifestyle, even though they may seem being alone.  Social worker should spend more time on the paralysed, handicapped or mobile challenge to see what they need and not drag them out into the same to shake a few limbs and call it a day. 

[singalion]

On 1/13/2022 at 6:28 PM, Guest G2020 said:

Loneliness is bad for those who don't know how to spend their time. I've seen those at the void decks with the hollow look, just waiting to die.

But then those who seek peace and quietness in the mountains or seaside villages are the most long lived. They keep busy and healthy or they meditate.

 

Don't think you can generalise on this.

 

Lone people in mountains or islands start talking to their animals or to themselves... That is their social interaction.

 

If you read the research, maintaining social bonds seems better/healthier than staying on your own alone and it doesn't matter if you know how to spend time as you start to develop negative habits or having mental health issues.

 

[singalion]

On 1/13/2022 at 6:39 PM, Guest Stimulated said:

In Singapore, it has became quite a political move to hassle certain group of "less priviledged" elderly or those staying in small size flat to mingle with similar age group of people.  My mom felt irritated when the social worker kept knocking on our door while she was taking her nap or needed a longer sleep in the morning.  Her days were full doing laundry, cooking simple meal and watching her favourite Korean or Taiwanese TV drama and also tended to various potted plants.   She enjoyed less interaction, and more so with strangers.  Her only interaction is the once weekly visit to the wet market to catch up with regular known people.   To each their own preference.  There should not be any standard protocols to impose on elderly their own preference lifestyle, even though they may seem being alone.  Social worker should spend more time on the paralysed, handicapped or mobile challenge to see what they need and not drag them out into the same to shake a few limbs and call it a day. 

 

Don't you visit your mom regularly or other siblings? That is considered social interaction also.

 

Actually, you should not be so concerned with social workers going their rounds.

At least they check on the people and their conditions. it is better than nobody looking after (if siblings or children don't care about their old folks) and they don't die from a blood infection after a fall being untreated or trapped in their flats...

 

I m not sure how often the social workers visit elderly people in Singapore.

 

 

[InBangkok]

As we live our lives, most of us have goals. Sometimes they change but we usually have some ambition for ourselves. What has surprised me in chatting to some older friends I made at uni is how setting goals seems to tail off as retirement nears.

 

Some years ago I attended our 30th graduation reunion. Since I had lived in Asia for most of my career, I was happy to see some of them again! What surprised me over that week-end was how many seemed to have few goals in place for retirement. Although that was still some years away for everyone, maybe it was not surprising, but I assumed most would have some things they'd like to do once their hectic work lives were over. Most said they were envious that I had been able to travel quite extensively as part of the jobs I had been doing. They added they planned to start travelling once they had reached pensionable age at 65. With the jobs they had been doing, their pensions would have been quite considerable. But few were considering any form of travel outside Europe. I thought that a pity and tried to explain some of the joys of longer distance travel. I know one couple did go to Sydney and stopped over to see me in Hong Kong. Of the rest, I know very little.

 

Another surprise was that those who had married soon after leaving university had divorced and were on second marriages. Perhaps alimony and contributing to children's education meant pensions would not be as high as I assumed. But i suspect that if you reach 70 or later and have no objectives that you still want to achieve, life could get pretty meaningless. 

[Steve5380]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:58 AM, Guest Very Stimulated said:

Propaganda must also befit the time and age in this modern and educated world.   Physical social activities which are not very stimulating is not a good form of interaction.  I have seen old folks gathered together, led by social workers and then asked to perform the most mundane and dumbed stuffs just to pass time.  If internet can help me grow intellectually and provide tremendous amount of entertainment to keep me fully occupied, why do I need to "social interact" for the sake of making the unstimulating people happy?

 

Very good points.  There is also much misconception about a NEED to be social.  To seek solitude does not mean that the person doesn't have social skills. After all,  we humans are not such perfect beings that we must be attracted to humans to find fulfillment and enjoyment  ( sex aside, ha ha ).  In an equivalence with the physical body,  those people whom I tell now with enthusiasm that I practice intermittent fasting spending 16 or more hours without eating,  should they think: "poor guy, he lets his body languish for 16 hours without food,  let's go and bring him something to eat" ?  They don't understand that I am happy fasting,  until they eventually, if ever,  try it themselves.

 

The Internet, the movies watched on my TV, listening to music, playing the piano, going to the gym, doing exercises at home, cleaning house, working in the garden, chatting with family and a few friends over the phone,  all this keeps me occupied to the point that I don't know where the time goes that I don't have sufficient of it in the 24 hours of the day.

 

Something new and exciting is coming:  The METAVERSE.  Future services of 3D virtual worlds where one can get immersed with a sense of "being there".   I would like to watch the next Olympics  "being there" in a metaverse,  while sitting comfortably at home.   This may be possible in a decade, and by then I will be old and happy not having to make long travels anywhere.   This metaverse could become a negative addiction for young people,  but for the elderly, the incapacitated, the disabled, this could become a blessing.

 

 

[Guest Stimulated]

On 1/13/2022 at 8:55 PM, singalion said:

 

Don't you visit your mom regularly or other siblings? That is considered social interaction also.

 

Actually, you should not be so concerned with social workers going their rounds.

At least they check on the people and their conditions. it is better than nobody looking after (if siblings or children don't care about their old folks) and they don't die from a blood infection after a fall being untreated or trapped in their flats...

 

I m not sure how often the social workers visit elderly people in Singapore.

 

 

Very pronounced when GE draws near.  It was staged or when they need to do survey on household income or asked you to join RC activities and then wanted you to sign document as evidence of their visit (to please their boss behind the scene).  We also encountered rude one, who banged on the door so hard the wall rattled.  Another incident also visited by a few women, explaining to my mom about Government's cash voucher,  and told her not to save but spend it away since she is old.   I find them quite rude.   My mom is not staying alone, she stayed with her son and other family members who visited her regularly.  

 

 

[Guest Stimulated]

On 1/13/2022 at 10:16 PM, Steve5380 said:

To seek solitude does not mean that the person doesn't have social skills.

 

 

I disagree.  Solitude is a form of SOCIAL SKILL in my view.

On 1/13/2022 at 10:16 PM, Steve5380 said:

Something new and exciting is coming:  The METAVERSE.  Future services of 3D virtual worlds where one can get immersed with a sense of "being there".

I can't wait to use that gadget to travel, to every gay sauna in the world and watch live activities.  I am sure it will be very stimulating.

[Steve5380]

On 1/13/2022 at 8:34 AM, Guest Stimulated said:

I disagree.  Solitude is a form of SOCIAL SKILL in my view.

I can't wait to use that gadget to travel, to every gay sauna in the world and watch live activities.  I am sure it will be very stimulating.

 

You are right.  Good solitude is an ability to be social... with ourselves.  

 

Hopefully by then there will be sites like a new Tumblr that will offer metaverse of gay saunas.  And, who knows how many paid sites will emerge offering "porn metaverse"   

 

And similarly, I will welcome to have metaverse in concert halls and opera houses to listen to performances "live".  

[singalion]

On 1/13/2022 at 10:16 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Very good points.  There is also much misconception about a NEED to be social.  To seek solitude does not mean that the person doesn't have social skills.

 

 

 

You are confusing loneliness with social skills. Lonelines/ solitude has nothing to do with social skills or whether you have or not have social skills. 

 

Insofar it is irrelevant. 

 

If you meant skills to socialise or better the lack of skills to socialise, that is another story. 

Not everyone finds it easy to make new friends or maintain friendships. The lack of can lead to loneliness. Some even suffer anxiety in groups with strangers or a certain amount of people and don't open up easily. But this issue is not related to aging or an issue of elderly only. You just need to look at various threads here where young gays voice their issues in talking or socialising with others. 

 

But exceeding a certain age people should have learnt not to fear to socialise and get in touch with others. 

 

Certain activity programs offered by various organisations catering to elderly are often quickly taken up (and I m not talking here about Bingo sessions) . 

 

 

[Steve5380]

I don't think I confuse loneliness with social skills. 

 

In the first place,  I wrote SOLITUDE, not LONELINESS.  There is a fundamental difference between the two states, which are not even remotely synonymous 

 

In my long life I have learned social skills, yet I also enjoy my solitude.  In doing so,  I am in good company:  myself!   Surely Albert Einstein sought a lot of solitude to work on his fundamental theories of relativity.  He didn't research them in a team.  Likewise,  Ludwig van Beethoven didn't produce his masterpieces of music by heading a team of composers. He wrote his music all by himself, in solitude.  The same was true of the majority of master works of intellectual nature, by writers, other composers, and all sorts of scientists.  Solitude is perfectly fine. 

 

If an individual is in solitude, surrounded by POSITIVE thoughts and feelings,  there is nothing wrong with it. 

 

But individuals who are lonely feeling very negative, depressed, defeated, with no self-esteem, hopeless,  they are in a state that is borderline illness, and they may need help.  Although they may not necessarily need to be helped by others, but, if some new awareness and information can come to them,  they may be able to bootstrap themselves out of their loneliness by working on their feelings, little by little regaining a psychological equilibrium. This may bring real change instead of forcing the lonely to mingle with well intentioned people with whom he may not want anything to do. Self-help can be very appropriate for people who act normal and are afraid to let know that they have strong feelings of loneliness, and they feel ashamed of finding help in a shrink.  And the help of shrinks is not always the best help.

 

Solitude can bring some humorous traits.  Is a person who speaks with himself nuts?  It may appear so, and we think of this so often seeing guys apparently doing this, while loudly speaking on their cellphones.  I find myself sometimes speaking with myself.  My elderly sister does the same.  And we are NOT nuts, but perfectly normal,  ha ha.

[singalion]

On 1/14/2022 at 1:09 AM, singalion said:

You are confusing loneliness with social skills. Lonelines/ solitude has nothing to do with social skills or whether you have or not have social skills. 

 

Insofar it is irrelevant. 

 

 

On 1/14/2022 at 3:45 AM, Steve5380 said:

I don't think I confuse loneliness with social skills. 

 

In the first place,  I wrote SOLITUDE, not LONELINESS.  There is a fundamental difference between the two states, which are not even remotely synonymous 

 

In my long life I have learned social skills, yet I also enjoy my solitude.  In doing so,  I am in good company:  myself!   Surely Albert Einstein sought a lot of solitude to work on his fundamental theories of relativity.  He didn't research them in a team.  Likewise,  Ludwig van Beethoven didn't produce his masterpieces of music by heading a team of composers. He wrote his music all by himself, in solitude.  The same was true of the majority of master works of intellectual nature, by writers, other composers, and all sorts of scientists.  Solitude is perfectly fine. 

 

If an individual is in solitude, surrounded by POSITIVE thoughts and feelings,  there is nothing wrong with it. 

 

But individuals who are lonely feeling very negative, depressed, defeated, with no self-esteem, hopeless,  they are in a state that is borderline illness, and they may need help.  Although they may not necessarily need to be helped by others, but, if some new awareness and information can come to them,  they may be able to bootstrap themselves out of their loneliness by working on their feelings, little by little regaining a psychological equilibrium. This may bring real change instead of forcing the lonely to mingle with well intentioned people with whom he may not want anything to do. Self-help can be very appropriate for people who act normal and are afraid to let know that they have strong feelings of loneliness, and they feel ashamed of finding help in a shrink.  And the help of shrinks is not always the best help.

 

Solitude can bring some humorous traits.  Is a person who speaks with himself nuts?  It may appear so, and we think of this so often seeing guys apparently doing this, while loudly speaking on their cellphones.  I find myself sometimes speaking with myself.  My elderly sister does the same.  And we are NOT nuts, but perfectly normal,  ha ha.

 

The point was social skills and not any difference between Loneliness and Solitude.

I think you missed the point.

 

Actually you are digressing from the issue I mentioned namely, that social skills has nothing to do with solitude/loneliness.

 

I objected to your following sentence:

On 1/13/2022 at 10:16 PM, Steve5380 said:

To seek solitude does not mean that the person doesn't have social skills.

Just on a note: in the second sentence of my response post I used both words solitude and loneliness. (see above).

 

Solitude and Loneliness are not far apart.

While solitude just refers to the fact of being alone, loneliness has an emotional component, which includes the emotional result of being alone.

 

On 1/14/2022 at 3:45 AM, Steve5380 said:

In my long life I have learned social skills, yet I also enjoy my solitude.  In doing so,  I am in good company:  myself!

Further, my response was in general terms and not about you yourself.

You cannot assume from your personal state to apply this to all elderly people.

 

 

On 1/14/2022 at 3:45 AM, Steve5380 said:

Surely Albert Einstein sought a lot of solitude to work on his fundamental theories of relativity.  He didn't research them in a team.  Likewise,  Ludwig van Beethoven didn't produce his masterpieces of music by heading a team of composers. He wrote his music all by himself, in solitude. 

 

Your examples on Beethoven are flawed also, because he was not known to suffer from loneliness nor that he was not socialising.

 

Lastly, you have been falling back to your bad habit to retort just for the purpose of retorting.

 

 

[Steve5380]

I stand by my earlier statement:  to seek solitude does not mean an absence of social skills.

 

It is a mistake to brand together solitude and loneliness.  This mistake gives solitude a bad name,  since loneliness is something undesirable,  people wrongly assume that solitude is something bad too.  I think that to make a distinction IS IMPORTANT!

 

I wrote that Beethoven worked in solitude,  not in loneliness.  His head must have been too full of music to leave room for any loneliness, ha ha.

 

Usually we live in solitude much more than what we realize.  The majority of us sleep in solitude, unless we have a warm body laying beside us.  We go to the store in solitude, where we are usually surrounded by strangers.  I go to the gym in solitude, although there I chat with other members.  We ride in the bus, the metro in quasi-solitude, since we don't speak with the strangers around. I have spent countless hours working in solitude in my office,  although occasionally being social with my coworkers and going to meetings. 

 

Loneliness, on the other hand, is a feeling that may result from a perception of lack of social skills, or the lack of other people around.  I write "a perception",  because lack of social skills has at its roots insecurity, lack of self-confidence. Social skills come mostly from social interaction.  Anyone who is able to overcome his insecurity and mingle with others will acquire social skills.  And to write something specifically for the topic of the thread:

 

Unless you have some horrible disfiguration, a hunchback like Quasimodo, a crippled body,  there is no reason for shyness or other lack of confidence.  If your image in the mirror is that of a NORMAL person,  you can mingle with others without fear.  Do this early, because social skills will help in becoming one day a senior.

 

Think of rephrasing the 10 Commandments in a more rational way.  Especially the first one.   I had to learn in school the first one in this form (translated from Spanish):

- Love God above everything else.   This should be transformed to a more rational one:

 

- Love YOURSELF about everything else.   Yes,  yourself instead of a god.  For you exist without doubt, compared to what may be only an imaginary figure.  And your existence is what creates the whole Universe for you.  Without YOU,  there is for you no Universe, no God,  nothing!   Our existence is for us personally more important than anything else.

 

Therefore,  without becoming selfish, we should give ourselves the highest consideration. To ourselves in solitude, and also in front of everybody else,  be it the Pope, the Prime Minister, or the cutest and most attractive gorgeous male.  

.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Steve5380

[Guest Guest]

...... I write "a perception",  because lack of social skills has at its roots insecurity, lack of self-confidence......  Anyone who is able to overcome his insecurity and mingle with others will acquire social skills......

 

.......Unless you have some horrible disfiguration, a hunchback like Quasimodo, a crippled body,  there is no reason for shyness or other lack of confidence..

 

This guy is just old, crazy, senile and stupid.

[Guest Singalioned!]

On 1/14/2022 at 2:35 PM, singalion said:

 

 

 

The point was social skills and not any difference between Loneliness and Solitude.

I think you missed the point.

 

Actually you are digressing from the issue I mentioned namely, that social skills has nothing to do with solitude/loneliness.

 

I objected to your following sentence:

Just on a note: in the second sentence of my response post I used both words solitude and loneliness. (see above).

 

Solitude and Loneliness are not far apart.

While solitude just refers to the fact of being alone, loneliness has an emotional component, which includes the emotional result of being alone.

 

Further, my response was in general terms and not about you yourself.

You cannot assume from your personal state to apply this to all elderly people.

 

 

 

Your examples on Beethoven are flawed also, because he was not known to suffer from loneliness nor that he was not socialising.

 

Lastly, you have been falling back to your bad habit to retort just for the purpose of retorting.

 

 

Thanks Singalion for your kind contributuion

 

This thread should be named after you.

You OWNED it

 

Well done;))))))

[Steve5380]

On 1/15/2022 at 2:17 AM, Guest Singalioned! said:

Thanks Singalion for your kind contributuion

 

This thread should be named after you.

You OWNED it

 

Well done;))))))

 

I have no problems with @singalion taking ownership of this thread. 

 

Would this not imply that he is a senior,  with plenty of experience to advice about being a senior?  He might not like this! 

[InBangkok]

On 1/14/2022 at 2:45 AM, Steve5380 said:

Surely Albert Einstein sought a lot of solitude to work on his fundamental theories of relativity.  He didn't research them in a team.

Yet again you twist the subject. Unlike you, Einstein was not clothed in what you call solitude (and others probably call loneliness). He was twice married. He had three children and he enjoyed a happy home life with a lot of social interaction as the release in 2006 or almost 1,400 previously unpublished letters show. He also enjoyed the company of quite a number of mistresses, as well as of fellow scientific researchers on his many travels out of his country. 

 

And @Steve5380is wrong again in suggesting that Einstein worked alone or sought "a lot of solitude". Indeed of the many with whom he worked on his theory of relativity, the engineer Michele Besso and the mathematician Marcel Grossmann, as well as his first wife Mileva Maric, were especially important. He also consulted regularly with other leading experts of the day including Gunnar Nordstrom, Friedrich Kottler, Adriaan Fokker and Erwin Finlay Freundlich. Later he sought out astronomers regarding his Theory and worked together with them on many experiments. To say he "sought a lot of solitude" and "didn't research them in a team" is a pure rewriting of history to suit @Steve5380's own inaccurate theory. Not a trait uncommon with that poster, unfortunately.

[singalion]

On 1/18/2022 at 2:23 PM, InBangkok said:

what you call solitude (and others probably call loneliness).

 

From the word meaning angle solitude and loneliness has different meanings, which might be clearer to English native speakers.

 

But Steve often prefers to argue on such word notions instead on the issue or he prefers to retort just not to be seen as if his point was not logic.

 

I agree with you that his points on the artists, scientists are flawed.

 

Would need to consult literature and music experts to reason whether Einstein, Beethoven enjoyed solitude or not.

 

It is natural and common sense that certain artists require solitude and silence to write their books, do their researches or compose a symphony.

But it does not say anything whether they enjoyed the solitude. We are not aware of this.

 

The other point Steve mentioned on solitude and social skills I found rather bizarre.

surely there are people who shy other people or groups because they have a problem to socialise or disgust socialising and prefer to stay loners. But it doesn't say anything about their social skills.

 

If Steve had looked for a good example, then it had been Verdi who avoided social events and only had a few friends.

But we don't know whether it was that he preferred solitude or whether he felt uncomfortable in larger groups?

 

There are people that can manage well being alone and can "entertain" themselves when nobody is around, other people have difficulties if they are alone or fail to get something done.

Surely, Steve, just to prove him right (which he wasn't) digressed from the actual topic which was that not upkeeping social contacts in old age have negative effects on health.

That was actually the starting point of discussion.

 

What it doesn't meant that elderly people should not have their "own" time or enjoy being alone. Nobody ever said that.

But what it was meant for was: Go for social events and social interaction, don't stay alone (in solitude) all the time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by singalion

[singalion]

On 1/18/2022 at 1:52 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

I have no problems with @singalion taking ownership of this thread. 

 

Would this not imply that he is a senior,  with plenty of experience to advice about being a senior?  He might not like this! 

 

Senior in thinking and experience is surely something not bad!

 

However, I am not yet in the age to take ownership of threads, same as threads just dedicated to me. 😂

[Steve5380]

On 1/18/2022 at 1:36 AM, singalion said:

 

Senior in thinking and experience is surely something not bad!

 

However, I am not yet in the age to take ownership of threads, same as threads just dedicated to me. 😂

 

Yes, it is too early for you to be remembered in World History. 😄

[Steve5380]

On 1/18/2022 at 12:23 AM, InBangkok said:

Yet again you twist the subject. Unlike you, Einstein was not clothed in what you call solitude (and others probably call loneliness). He was twice married. He had three children and he enjoyed a happy home life with a lot of social interaction as the release in 2006 or almost 1,400 previously unpublished letters show. He also enjoyed the company of quite a number of mistresses, as well as of fellow scientific researchers on his many travels out of his country. 

 

And @Steve5380is wrong again in suggesting that Einstein worked alone or sought "a lot of solitude". Indeed of the many with whom he worked on his theory of relativity, the engineer Michele Besso and the mathematician Marcel Grossmann, as well as his first wife Mileva Maric, were especially important. He also consulted regularly with other leading experts of the day including Gunnar Nordstrom, Friedrich Kottler, Adriaan Fokker and Erwin Finlay Freundlich. Later he sought out astronomers regarding his Theory and worked together with them on many experiments. To say he "sought a lot of solitude" and "didn't research them in a team" is a pure rewriting of history to suit @Steve5380's own inaccurate theory. Not a trait uncommon with that poster, unfortunately.

 

Yes, Einstein was married and had children.  And he may have had a decent social life.

 

SOLITUDE is a state of being that defines the moment,  not the life style.  I also wrote that many of us are in SOLITUDE while we sleep.  Einstein both in his work at the patent office in Bern and during his research of physics must have spent long hours working in solitude clothed in his thinking.  Also the many musicians you have known must have spent hours studying and practicing their instruments in solitude.  Who wants to be around a tuba player while he is practicing? 😄

[InBangkok]

On 1/18/2022 at 8:43 PM, Steve5380 said:

I also wrote that many of us are in SOLITUDE while we sleep.

How is it possible to be asleep and not in solitude, alone or whatever? A rather silly point to make!

 

On 1/18/2022 at 8:43 PM, Steve5380 said:

Einstein both in his work at the patent office in Bern and during his research of physics must have spent long hours working in solitude clothed in his thinking. 

You have absolutely no way of knowing that. You are assuming - again. Have you read all of Einstein's letters?

[Steve5380]

On 1/18/2022 at 7:59 AM, InBangkok said:

How is it possible to be asleep and not in solitude, alone or whatever? A rather silly point to make!

 

You have absolutely no way of knowing that. You are assuming - again. Have you read all of Einstein's letters?

 

I haven't known Einstein personally.  But I have done technical, intellectual work for most of my life. I was not a theoretical scientist but a developer of technology products and designer of hardware and software.  So I know about the concentration it takes to do useful intellectual work and produce satisfactory results.  This cannot be done properly but in solitude.

 

Ah... I had forgotten earlier...  Most of us pee, poop and shower in SOLITUDE!