Ukraine invasion by Russia Discussion and it's impact on Singapore and Asia? (compiled)

[sgmaven]

There are some people here who remind me of Marie Antionette. Expecting that people can change their diets and buying behaviour at the drop of the hat. If it weren't for industrial farming, current croplands would probably result in the entire developing world dying of starvation. Let them eat cake...

[Steve5380]

On 5/3/2022 at 5:27 AM, sgmaven said:

There are some people here who remind me of Marie Antionette. Expecting that people can change their diets and buying behaviour at the drop of the hat. If it weren't for industrial farming, current croplands would probably result in the entire developing world dying of starvation. Let them eat cake...

 

Your association with Marie Antoniette seems to be very skewed.  She was not a nutrition expert who did recommend people to eat cake instead of bread for health reasons.  

 

If you cannot change diets at the drop of a hat you have a problem with inflexibility or lack of imagination.  Even our fellow members of the animal kingdom who some look down to  can change diets.  You should take example from the cows, and not be less than they are:

 

https://farmhouseguide.com/what-fruits-can-cows-eat/

[singalion]

On 5/3/2022 at 9:43 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Your association with Marie Antoniette seems to be very skewed.  She was not a nutrition expert who did recommend people to eat cake instead of bread for health reasons.  

 

If you cannot change diets at the drop of a hat you have a problem with inflexibility or lack of imagination.  Even our fellow members of the animal kingdom who some look down to  can change diets.  You should take example from the cows, and not be less than they are:

 

https://farmhouseguide.com/what-fruits-can-cows-eat/

 

is this somehow relevant for the Ukraine discussion???

 

[Guest Wtf]

On 5/3/2022 at 9:43 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Your association with Marie Antoniette seems to be very skewed.  She was not a nutrition expert who did recommend people to eat cake instead of bread for health reasons.  

 

If you cannot change diets at the drop of a hat you have a problem with inflexibility or lack of imagination.  Even our fellow members of the animal kingdom who some look down to  can change diets.  You should take example from the cows, and not be less than they are:

 

https://farmhouseguide.com/what-fruits-can-cows-eat/

WTAF is this post? I mean, seriously… get a grip and try increasing thinking time and decreasing typing time…

[Steve5380]

On 5/3/2022 at 9:09 AM, singalion said:

 

is this somehow relevant for the Ukraine discussion???

 

 

I didn't bring Marie Antoinette into the discussion.  But there could be a remote connection:  the absolute regime of King Louis XVI of France and the absolutism of the Kremlin under the dictatorship of Putin.

[Steve5380]

On 5/3/2022 at 9:20 AM, Guest Wtf said:

WTAF is this post? I mean, seriously… get a grip and try increasing thinking time and decreasing typing time…

 

As a matter of fact,  my typing is so fast that it synchronizes with my thinking.  It is nearly a direct transfer from my brain to this important discussion on the Internet.  The impatience of having the war in Ukraine resolved with the victory of the attacked, makes this thinking faster,  even when it broadens its scope.

[Guest Kamarical]

On 5/3/2022 at 6:03 PM, Why? said:

That is just your cursory judgement.  I see the world in 4 dimensions, while others only see it as two.  The bad are not necessarily evil and have good people rallying behind, While the good is not necessarily humane with bad people fueling the war.   You think it is illogical and irrational,  but I see it as human exposed in its truthful form, war or no war.   If you see  things in black and white, you have  opitcal problem that needs fixing.

u and yr oh so clever 4D ivory tower think u r so clever beyond us mortals to understand.

A war started by an inhumane dictator is evil, totally evil bc it kills thousands and thousands of precious humans. There's no grey, it's pure black black evil. If One of yr own family murdered would be major news to u yet u have no feelings for thousands and thousands of precious humans.

 

Only evils like u would have no feelings for loss of human lives that treat the losses as easy academic accounting like counting chickens for the market. Are u even human at all? U r so evil.

[sgmaven]

Some people have no qualms about supporting actions, purely because it is far from home. It may be quite different if Malaysia or Indonesia starts claiming that Singapore as part of historical land, and invading the country. Then again, that person might be the first to flee the country at the first hint of trouble. Only knowing how to say that there is no black or white...

[sgmaven]

@Steve5380still has not addressed how he intends to feed the billions in the developing world with his so called "greener" and more sustainable techniques. Sure, it might be more sustainable and nutritious, but that will not fill the stomachs of the billions that will starve.

 

Back to the topic on the the Ukraine, the US is now saying that Moscow is likely to declare war on May 9th. This would definitely not be good, as the declaration of war would only cause things to escalate (as Putin would then be able to draw from his army reserves).

[singalion]

 

Men and boys among alleged rape victims of Russian soldiers in Ukraine

UN chief on sexual violence warns dozens of cases under investigation are ‘tip of the iceberg’

 

 

Tue 3 May 2022

 

Men and boys are among the alleged victims of rape by Russian soldiers in Ukraine, where dozens of cases of sexual violence by the invading forces are already under investigation, UN and Ukrainian officials said on Tuesday.

 

“I have received reports, not yet verified … about sexual violence cases against men and boys in Ukraine,” said Pramila Patten, UN special representative on sexual violence in war, at a press conference in Kyiv.

 

Patten added that it can be particularly challenging for male rape survivors to report the crime. “It’s hard for women and girls to report [rape] because of stigma amongst other reasons, but it’s often even harder for men and boys to report … we have to create that safe space for all victims to report cases of sexual violence.”

 

She warned that dozens of cases of sexual violence that are under investigation so far “only represent the tip of the iceberg”, as she urged survivors to come forward, and the international community to find perpetrators and hold them responsible. “Today’s documentation will be tomorrow’s prosecution,” she said.

 

Ukraine’s prosecutor general Iryna Venediktova said on Tuesday that her office had collected reports of sexual violence by Russian troops against men and women of all ages, from children to elderly people.

 

Speaking at a news conference in the shattered Kyiv suburb of Irpin, one of a cluster of small towns whose names have become synonymous with Russian war crimes, Venediktova said Moscow had used rape as a deliberate strategy. “This is, of course, to scare civil society … to do everything to [force Ukraine to] capitulate.”

 

There have been few public accounts of sexual violence in Ukraine. Some victims have left the country, and others who have stayed are frightened of speaking about their experience, Venediktova said.

 

However, teams of prosecutors and investigators have been gathering evidence of widespread sexual violence since Russian forces retreated just over a month ago.

 

Gang-rapes, assaults at gunpoint, and rapes committed in front of children are among the grim testimonies they have collected from victims and their families.

 

 

The country’s human rights commissioner Lyudmila Denisova, has officially documented the cases of 25 women who were kept in a basement and systematically raped in Bucha, which neighbours Irpin.

 

Forensic doctors carrying out postmortem examinations on women buried in mass graves say they have also found evidence some were raped before being killed by Russian forces.

 

UN envoy Patten said she was visiting Kyiv because of the overwhelming indications of widespread, systematic sexual violence in the conflict, and the risk to Ukrainian women from trafficking if they try to flee the conflict.

 

“All the warning signals are flashing red in Ukraine, with allegations of brutal sexual violence emerging,” she said, at a press conference with Ukraine’s deputy prime minister Olga Stefanishina.

 

“I could not stay back in my office in New York, in the face of such harrowing reports of sexual violence. I’m here because we must spare no effort to ensure zero tolerance and consistent consequences for these crimes,” Patten said.

 

While the fighting has ended around Kyiv for now, Russian soldiers still hold swathes of territory in the south and east of the country. Amid growing concern about rape there too, activists are trying to get emergency contraception into Ukrainian hospitals as quickly as possible.

 

Patten warned that for too long, the world had allowed sexual violence to be deployed as a cheap, silent and effective weapon against whole communities.

“Cheap, because it is cost free. Very effective, because it does not only affect the victim, it affects whole families, the communities,” she said. “It is biological warfare. It is psychological warfare.”

 

She said the UN would work with Ukrainian authorities to provide support for survivors, but is also investigating crimes to prepare cases for criminal trial.

 

 

Ukrainian investigators have already identified Russian soldiers they allege are responsible for war crimes including sexual violence, and an arrest warrant has been issued for one man accused of rape.

 

There has been international support for investigations, with French and Dutch forensic experts already on the ground. Britain has also promised to send investigators to help gather evidence of war crimes, including sexual violence.

 

But many question whether soldiers who have already retreated will face prosecution, as they are under the protection of the government in Moscow which ordered the invasion and denies committing war crimes.

 

[singalion]

On 5/4/2022 at 2:03 PM, sgmaven said:

Back to the topic on the the Ukraine, the US is now saying that Moscow is likely to declare war on May 9th. This would definitely not be good, as the declaration of war would only cause things to escalate (as Putin would then be able to draw from his army reserves).

 

In my personal assumptions Russia is lately trying to pull NATO countries into the war.

 

Various Russian planes have invaded into NATO territory the past days.

 

I see this as a provocation by Russia.

 

Either Russia needs an excuse why it can't win the war (for it's own population, later claiming, NATO was too big to win, if then, but...) or it intentional tries to pull NATO into the scene.

 

=>

A Russian spy plane violated NATO airspace in recent days, prompting the Kremlin’s ambassador to Denmark to be summoned over the incident, the top Danish diplomat announced.

 

“This is completely unacceptable and particularly worrying in the current situation,” Danish Foreign Minister Jeppe Kofod said Sunday in a statement.

The Russian aircraft entered Danish airspace Friday in the vicinity of the island of Bornholm, Kofod said.

Kofod said the Russian ambassador would be summoned Monday because of the “new Russian violation of Danish airspace.”

 

German Eurofighters "guided" one Russian military aircraft out of German territory on

 

Russian military plane flies off Rügen – Bundeswehr intervenes

May 3, 2022

 

A Russian reconnaissance aircraft approaching over the Baltic Sea has alerted the German Air Force. As a reaction, two Eurofighters from the Laage air base in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania rose to an alarm start on Saturday, as the German Press Agency learned.

The Russian machine was identified in international airspace off the island of Rügen. The alarm squad from the two German machines accompanied the Russian aircraft in international airspace away from Germany.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by singalion

[singalion]

On 5/3/2022 at 10:35 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

I didn't bring Marie Antoinette into the discussion.  But there could be a remote connection:  the absolute regime of King Louis XVI of France and the absolutism of the Kremlin under the dictatorship of Putin.

 

You are a little bit wrong on the Absolutism of French King Louis XVI. He inherited a huge bulk of debts from his father and grand-grandfather Louis XIV. As he was unable to control the financial collapse of the French kingdom, in 1785 he called the suspended parliament into action again. It was that parliament that intended him to be a constitutional monarch, just having representative role, which he refused what some years later lead to the storming of Bastille. But on 9th July 1789 the king had to accept the constitutional role.

 

By calling the "parliament" Louis XVI thought he can implement a tax increase, which surely the representatives opposed...but this lead to a "democratisation" of France. 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by singalion

[Why?]

On 5/3/2022 at 11:16 PM, Guest Kamarical said:

 

A war started by an inhumane dictator is evil, totally evil bc it kills thousands and thousands of precious humans.

Very true, inhumane actions ought to be condemned for life.  Here is a list of USA invasion..

 

2017 -19 (Syria)

2016 (Yemen)

2015 (Cameroon)

2011 - 2012 (Libya)

2004 - (Haiti) - overthrow government

2003 - 2011 -Iraq (overthrow government)

2001 -2021 - Afghanistan

1999 - 2012 - Yugoslavia

1994 - 2006 - Bosnia

1989 - 1990 - Panama (Overthrow Govt)

1981 - 1990 - Nicaragua 

1976 - 1992 - Angola

1975 - Cambodia

1971 - 1973 - Laos

1964 - 1975 - Vietnam 

1973 - Chile (Overthrow Govt)

1966 - Ghana (Overthrow Govt)

1965 - Indonesia (Overthrow Govt)

1965 - Congo (Overthrow Govt) 

1964 - 1975 (Vietnam)

1964 - Brazil (Overthrow Govt)

 

America is so full with war, it makes my fingers tired typing down the list.  Most of its immediate neighbours were not spared due to "perceived" threats.  Ukraine will not be spared, if it is pro-Russia/China, and its neighbour is America.  Ukraine will not stand a 2nd chance, with its leader overthrown or risk invaded under "perceived" threat (see above).     There is no need for further debate here.  The world is make up of Evil people in every continent.  War, is almost inevitable, provoked or unprovoked.   Europe, America, Ukraine, Russia, they are all the demons.  Just leave Asia alone.

 

BYE!!!

Edited May 4, 2022 by Why?

[sgmaven]

Someone likes to make it sound like Asia is the beacon of peace and tranquility. However, there are numerous territory disputes in Asia too.

 

Just take the South China Sea, where China has disputes with:

1. The Philippines

2. Vietnam

3. Indonesia

4. Malaysia

5. Brunei

6. Singapore

 

In addition, China has other disputes over territory with :

 

1. North Korea

2. South Korea

3. Japan

4. Bhutan

5. India

6. Nepal

7. Laos

8. Mongolia

9. Myanmar

10. Tibet

 

And that is just the PRC (not mentioning their dispute with Taiwan ROC).

[singalion]

On 5/4/2022 at 10:57 PM, sgmaven said:

Someone likes to make it sound like Asia is the beacon of peace and tranquility. However, there are numerous territory disputes in Asia too.

 

Just take the South China Sea, where China has disputes with:

1. The Philippines

2. Vietnam

3. Indonesia

4. Malaysia

5. Brunei

6. Singapore

 

In addition, China has other disputes over territory with :

 

1. North Korea

2. South Korea

3. Japan

4. Bhutan

5. India

6. Nepal

7. Laos

8. Mongolia

9. Myanmar

10. Tibet

 

And that is just the PRC (not mentioning their dispute with Taiwan ROC).

 

looks like someone is blind on 2 eyes and forgot to mention the Russian invasions, the 3 Baltic states, Georgia, Transnistria, Syria, Cuba, Poland, Hungrary, Czechoslowakia,  Afghanistan, Ethopia, Angola, Moldova, Syria, Mocambik, Kazakhstan...

 

[Steve5380]

What???  Sanctioning a Man of God?

 

Although the Holy See is not part of the E.U.,  it would be nice if Pope Francis would make a declaration condemning this EVIL FAKE MAN OF GOD Krill.   Looking at his picture,  one can imagine what is left if his funny hat and all his gaudy clothes were taken off him. What is left is a poor ruinous old man who belongs in an old-folks home.

 

The E.U. plans to put the head of the Russian Orthodox Church on its sanctions list.

 

 

The next round of sanctions against Russia will include Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, according to diplomats who have reviewed the document outlining the measures but were not authorized to speak publicly.

The patriarch was due to be sanctioned later this week over his unalloyed support of the Kremlin for the invasion of Ukraine, they said.

.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Steve5380

[sgmaven]

The Holy See does not hold any power over the Russian Orthodox church, since the Eastern churches split from Rome long ago. For the Pope to call Patriarch Kirill evil would mean little (a publicity stunt, perhaps?), and Patriarch Kirill could well do the same to Pope Francis. Nothing would result from such statements.

[Steve5380]

Well,  it seems that Pope Francis is the kind of person I admire.  He lived up to his position of moral leader and didn't care about the fact that the Russian Orthodox church is separate from the Roman Catholic church.  Francis believes that there is a single God,  not a Russian and a Western,  and his allegiance is to the one who dictates peace.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/04/europe/pope-francis-patriarch-kirill-ukraine-invasion-intl/index.html

 

Pope Francis warns pro-war Russian patriarch not to be 'Putin's altar boy'

Rome (CNN)Pope Francis warned the leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kirill, not to become "Putin's altar boy," he said in an interview this week.

In his strongest words to date against the pro-war Patriarch, Francis also slammed Kirill for endorsing Russia's stated reasons for invading Ukraine.

"I spoke to him for 40 minutes via Zoom," the Pope told Italian daily Corriere della Sera in an interview published Tuesday. "The first 20 minutes he read to me, with a card in hand, all the justifications for war."

"I listened and told him: I don't understand anything about this," said the Pope. "Brother, we are not clerics of state, we cannot use the language of politics but that of Jesus."

 

"The Patriarch cannot transform himself into Putin's altar boy," the Pope said.

Francis said the conference call with Kirill took place on March 16, and that both he and the Patriarch had agreed to postpone a planned meeting on June 14 in Jerusalem.

"It would be our second face-to-face meeting, nothing to do with the war," the Pope said. "But now, he too agrees: let's stop, it could be an ambiguous signal."

The Russian Orthodox Church said the Pope's comments were "regrettable," in a statement Wednesday.

"It is regrettable that a month and a half after the conversation with Patriarch Kirill, Pope Francis has chosen the wrong tone for conveying the contents of the conversation," said the Department of External Relations of the Russian Patriarchate.

"Such declarations do not contribute to establishing a constructive dialogue between the Roman Catholic Church and the Russian Orthodox Church which is particularly necessary at this time," the statement reads.

 

 

[Steve5380]

America is helping Ukraine so much with ordnance, that it seems to be running low on some types of it,  like anti-tank missile launchers.

 

But this should not be a problem,  because neither Mexico nor Canada are amassing large contingents of armored fighters ready to invade America. 

[sgmaven]

Don't forget that a lot of this "help" also benefits the humungous Military-Industrial Complex in the US. They are the biggest arms exporter by far....

[Steve5380]

On 5/6/2022 at 6:35 AM, sgmaven said:

Don't forget that a lot of this "help" also benefits the humungous Military-Industrial Complex in the US. They are the biggest arms exporter by far....

 

With false pretexts, Russia invaded its neighboring pacific country Ukraine with vast military superiority, committing atrocious war crimes.

 

The Ukrainians had the guts to confront the invaders, but their arms were no match for the enormous firepower of the Russians.  In this scenario, the NATO decided to help the Ukrainians by providing them with more weapons. The US in particular spent billions of $$$ to give the Ukrainians adequate arms from their arsenal.  From an humanitarian standpoint this has been and is a noble attitude.  However, this does not prevent some cynical observations that who benefits from this help are the US huge manufacturers of military ordnance.  Where does this compulsion for negative cynicism come from?

 

This here is not a case where the ordnance manufacturers send their sales people to seduce and convince Ukraine and its benefactor into buying their nice, capable weapons.  No.  This is a case where the weapons are desperately needed, 

 

 

[Guest Oh!!!!]

On 5/7/2022 at 8:48 AM, Steve5380 said:

In this scenario, the NATO decided to help the Ukrainians by providing them with more weapons. The US in particular spent billions of $$$ to give the Ukrainians adequate arms from their arsenal. 

Tit for tat is America's style and even encourage other countries to follow the same aggressive style.  A good leader should cultivate and encourage peace-talk, smooth the situation and bring all parties to the table. I didn't see that coming from America, not in the America's disgusting genes.  America should bear most of the guilt for Civilian deaths. $$$ billion weaponries is a killing machines, not a charity foods. 

[Steve5380]

On 5/6/2022 at 9:15 PM, Guest Oh!!!! said:

Tit for tat is America's style and even encourage other countries to follow the same aggressive style.  A good leader should cultivate and encourage peace-talk, smooth the situation and bring all parties to the table. I didn't see that coming from America, not in the America's disgusting genes.  America should bear most of the guilt for Civilian deaths. $$$ billion weaponries is a killing machines, not a charity foods. 

 

Bless you my child, for you have heard the voice of the Lord, the teaching of Jesus Christ in Matthew 5:39:   "But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also"

 

This was 2000 years ago.  But if the Jesus would see today how the Russian tanks bomb the hell out of the helpless Ukrainian civilians, the women and children,  he would urge the Ukrainians to blast the Russian tanks into extinction with the nice American anti-tank missiles.

[InBangkok]

On 5/7/2022 at 9:15 AM, Guest Oh!!!! said:

America should bear most of the guilt for Civilian deaths.

SInce WWII US forces have killed and murdered well over 10 million civilians in its various wars and conflicts around the world. That is a damning indictment.

[sgmaven]

On 5/7/2022 at 8:48 AM, Steve5380 said:

With false pretexts, Russia invaded its neighboring pacific country Ukraine with vast military superiority, committing atrocious war crimes.

Did I absolve Russia for all their wrongdoings in invading the Ukraine? No! However, I am merely stating that the West themselves do not stand on the moral high ground, since they are "helping" the Ukraine, only for their own benefit (in whatever form that may take).

 

Please understand that just because Russia is wrong in invading he Ukraine, does not automatically make anyone who comes to the Ukraine's aid right. Most are just benefiting themselves and engaging in a proxy war, where the real people who suffer are the Ukrainians.

Edited May 7, 2022 by sgmaven

[sgmaven]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:39 AM, Steve5380 said:

Bless you my child, for you have heard the voice of the Lord, the teaching of Jesus Christ in Matthew 5:39:   "But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also"

 

This was 2000 years ago.  But if the Jesus would see today how the Russian tanks bomb the hell out of the helpless Ukrainian civilians, the women and children,  he would urge the Ukrainians to blast the Russian tanks into extinction with the nice American anti-tank missiles.

You do know what the bible says about those who use the Lord's name in vain...

[sgmaven]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:53 AM, InBangkok said:

SInce WWII US forces have killed and murdered well over 10 million civilians in its various wars and conflicts around the world. That is a damning indictment.

Don't forget those they caused irreparable harm to "in the name of peace", such as the Marshall Islanders, who till today have to face up to this injustice. Not only did the US destroy their original way of life, and poisoned their entire environment by testing nuclear weapons indiscriminately, they never apologised for it. While the Americans who stay on the base on the Marshall Islands live with all the First World luxuries, which include golf courses, the locals only get to work menial jobs on the base, being ferried in and out like outcasts. And of course, they are only given rudimentary healthcare...

[Steve5380]

On 5/7/2022 at 4:35 AM, sgmaven said:

 

You do know what the bible says about those who use the Lord's name in vain...

 

 

Notice the allusion of "the Lord" in the quoted post, which is nothing but a snide retort.  This was completely in vain.

 

I quoted one of the moral teachings of the Lord to make aware that this teaching cannot be used indiscriminately. There is a right to self defense and the defense of innocent others that has to make an exception to it.  

[Steve5380]

On 5/6/2022 at 9:53 PM, InBangkok said:

SInce WWII US forces have killed and murdered well over 10 million civilians in its various wars and conflicts around the world. That is a damning indictment.

 

More anti-American rubbish, brought by this poster to create controversy.

 

A decent folk like the Germans caused 50 million civilian deaths...  IN JUST ONE WAR!

 

America has never caused the death of large number of its own civilians.  This reaffirms that it is a good land to live in.  In contrast, tens of millions of Chinese civilians died during its "cultural revolution",  and Stalin killed millions of his own people.

 

And even a minuscule virus has now killed a million civilians in the US and may end up killing over 10 million civilians worldwide!!

 

And if we want to continue this dumb number game you started,  about 60 million people die worldwide EVERY YEAR.

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Steve5380

[Steve5380]

On 5/7/2022 at 4:39 AM, sgmaven said:

 

 While the Americans who stay on the base on the Marshall Islands live with all the First World luxuries, which include golf courses, the locals only get to work menial jobs on the base, being ferried in and out like outcasts. And of course, they are only given rudimentary healthcare...

 

 

And how about the regime in Singapore that favors the rich?  Millionaires and billionaires who live "with all the First World luxuries, which include golf courses",  while the nice gays of modest families only get to work menial jobs in commerce under repressive and sometimes homophobic bosses that exploit them,  only given basic expensive healthcare, having to live in huge housing conglomerates that are like ant nests with little space and much friction.

[sgmaven]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:13 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

And how about the regime in Singapore that favors the rich?  Millionaires and billionaires who live "with all the First World luxuries, which include golf courses",  while the nice gays of modest families only get to work menial jobs in commerce under repressive and sometimes homophobic bosses that exploit them,  only given basic expensive healthcare, having to live in huge housing conglomerates that are like ant nests with little space and much friction.

Like I have mentioned before, pointing out another nation's "mistakes" does not absolve the US from all the wrong-doing it has done...

 

And at least Singapore does not have a major problem with homelessness like in the US.

Edited May 7, 2022 by sgmaven

[Steve5380]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:04 AM, sgmaven said:

Like I have mentioned before, pointing out another nation's "mistakes" does not absolve the US from all the wrong-doing it has done...

 

And at least Singapore does not have a major problem with homelessness like in the US.

 

Of course mistakes should be done comparatively.  Because it is a fact of life that no one is perfect,  and everyone makes mistakes.  The same goes for nations.  All nations have some dark times in their history.

[sgmaven]

On 5/7/2022 at 11:12 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Of course mistakes should be done comparatively.  Because it is a fact of life that no one is perfect,  and everyone makes mistakes.  The same goes for nations.  All nations have some dark times in their history.

Then don't be so "sensitive" when people comment on the many mistakes made by the US in its past, and don't go on making it seem like the US is the beacon of purity and all things good. They simply are not!

[Steve5380]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:46 PM, sgmaven said:

Then don't be so "sensitive" when people comment on the many mistakes made by the US in its past, and don't go on making it seem like the US is the beacon of purity and all things good. They simply are not!

 

If these accusations of nations for the bad deeds they have done affects the "sensitivity" of others, who then throw back the accusations to the nations of those who make them because all nations can be blamed, would it not be the best to simply don't make these accusations?  Why bring up those evils?

 

And if someone is proud of his country, of himself,  why let envy or malevolence contradict him?

[InBangkok]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:12 PM, Steve5380 said:

Of course mistakes should be done comparatively.  Because it is a fact of life that no one is perfect,  and everyone makes mistakes.  The same goes for nations.  All nations have some dark times in their history.

Comparatively? That's a very strange assertion. So the fact that the US has tens of millions living in poverty, has murdered goodness knows how many millions of civilians in all its various wars since WWII is OK just  because comparatively other nations have done worse? That's ridiculous. 

 

Nations regularly make mistakes within their own countries. America entered WWII when they did because someone took their eye off the ball and failed to interpret the Japanese codes they had broken days before the attack on Pearl Harbour. America was hit by the events of 9/11 because of major systemic failures in the liaison between its various agencies supposed to keep Americans safe. Had those agencies connected the dots, the nineteen hijackers would have been caught long before 9/11. If you haven't done so, read the official 9/11 report.

 

But that is not the same when you deliberately invade other countries and deliberately interfere with their politics and governments. I suppose you regard Vietnam and the slaughter of 3 million Vietnamese as a mere mistake because some officials in Washington just happened to believe in the highly flawed domino theory. 

[Steve5380]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:53 PM, InBangkok said:

Comparatively? That's a very strange assertion. So the fact that the US has tens of millions living in poverty, has murdered goodness knows how many millions of civilians in all its various wars since WWII is OK just  because comparatively other nations have done worse? That's ridiculous. 

 

Nations regularly make mistakes within their own countries. America entered WWII when they did because someone took their eye off the ball and failed to interpret the Japanese codes they had broken days before the attack on Pearl Harbour. America was hit by the events of 9/11 because of major systemic failures in the liaison between its various agencies supposed to keep Americans safe. Had those agencies connected the dots, the nineteen hijackers would have been caught long before 9/11. If you haven't done so, read the official 9/11 report.

 

But that is not the same when you deliberately invade other countries and deliberately interfere with their politics and governments. I suppose you regard Vietnam and the slaughter of 3 million Vietnamese as a mere mistake because some officials in Washington just happened to believe in the highly flawed domino theory. 

 

I can understand your desire to provoke by writing the absolute nonsense you just did.

 

 

[InBangkok]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:46 PM, Steve5380 said:

I can understand your desire to provoke by writing the absolute nonsense you just did.

And that, @Steve5380, is one reason why many posters constantly criticise what you post. For nothing -ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - in my earlier post in untrue. It is all TRUE. Sometimes you hate the truth and are totally unable to handle the truth, especially when it represents a seeming attack on the country where you live.

 

Since you get so much of your information from wikipedia, I suggest you start reading up about what I wrote. If you don't do it, then I will - and I will post it here to illustrate that your idea of "nonsense" as being just that - NONSENSE!

[Steve5380]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:15 PM, InBangkok said:

 

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - in my earlier post in untrue. It is all TRUE.

 

 

Many  TRUE.  in international politics are like what you post.  We also have the TRUE. of Vladimir Putin that he is justified in attacking Ukraine because it is run by neo-Nazis and homosexuals,  and that his invasion is a total victory.  

.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Steve5380

[InBangkok]

On 5/9/2022 at 10:35 AM, Steve5380 said:

Many  TRUE. 

So why did you write above that all of what I had written was NONSENSE? Now you agree it was not all  nonsense!

 

Perhaps you now will try to understand why some regard some of your posts with a fair share of skepticism.

[singalion]

The crystal ball analysers said that the war would be over by today as Putin needed a success for the end of WWII celebrations at the Kremlin.

 

There are lot of speculations that Putin will call for the "total war" and mobilise the reservists.

Others said he would claim victory and just let his propaganda paint a picture that Russia won the war.

 

What surprised me the most was actually the restraint of the Ukraine, not to initiate bombings within Russia.

In my opinion some bombings in retaliation in some bigger cities had alerted the Russians and eventually led to people demonstrating against the war, because the issue is currently, that the Russians don't really "feel" the war.

 

If Putin calls the reservists, then more Russians will be made aware of the war.

The fortune tellers argued that calling the reservists would be very unpopular.

 

Probably in 10 hours we will know more.

 

In my personal speculation I assume Putin will just go on as before, hold a heroic speech today with his cronies applauding. I don't think he will declare a war and mobilise the reservists.

 

The only thing that might stop Putin is if the Ukrainian soldiers can fight back at Luhansk and Donbas...

 

 

[singalion]

 

 

Russia-Ukraine war: what we know on day 75 of the invasion

Around 60 people sheltering in a school near Luhansk killed in Russian bombing; more than 170 civilians evacuated from Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol

 

Mon 9 May 2022

 

[singalion]

On 5/9/2022 at 11:58 AM, InBangkok said:

So why did you write above that all of what I had written was NONSENSE? Now you agree it was not all  nonsense!

 

Perhaps you now will try to understand why some regard some of your posts with a fair share of skepticism.

 

I never understood why Steve needed to use such words as "nonsense", moron, malevolent, malicious in his responses. 

 

If there had been a "nonsense" register at BW, I know who would be hitting the top spot!

Just dropped the name but I think the member nick starts with the letter, S.

[Steve5380]

On 5/8/2022 at 11:23 PM, singalion said:

 

I never understood why Steve needed to use such words as "nonsense", moron, malevolent, malicious in his responses. 

 

If there had been a "nonsense" register at BW, I know who would be hitting the top spot!

Just dropped the name but I think the member nick starts with the letter, S.

 

Oh... I'm not the only one here to use those words here.  I return those words to the one tenor who complains so bitterly, in my "troll zappers".   Here is a quote of what he wrote, which I correctly interpret as absolute nonsense:

 

On 5/7/2022 at 10:53 PM, InBangkok said:

 

Comparatively? That's a very strange assertion. So the fact that the US has tens of millions living in poverty, has murdered goodness knows how many millions of civilians in all its various wars since WWII is OK just  because comparatively other nations have done worse? That's ridiculous. 

 

 

Of course a judgment has to be done comparatively.  The poverty of "tens of millions" in a country with 330 million habitants may be less severe than a smaller number of paupers in a tiny country, like Haiti for example.  And the civilians killed in a war have not all been "murdered". 

 

murder: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

 

Murder is what the Russian troops do in Ukraine, unlawful (war crimes), premeditated. This was also done by American troops,  the typical example of this being My Lai,  but not of "many millions of civilians".   

 

Absolute nonsense is the attitude of this 'tenor' who attempts to smear my country to provoke me.   Who knows how many atrocities has his country committed. 

[singalion]

On 5/8/2022 at 11:53 AM, InBangkok said:

Comparatively? That's a very strange assertion. So the fact that the US has tens of millions living in poverty, has murdered goodness knows how many millions of civilians in all its various wars since WWII is OK just  because comparatively other nations have done worse? That's ridiculous. 

 

On 5/9/2022 at 11:06 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Oh... I'm not the only one here to use those words here.  I return those words to the one tenor who complains so bitterly, in my "troll zappers".   Here is a quote of what he wrote, which I correctly interpret as absolute nonsense:

 

 

Of course a judgment has to be done comparatively.  The poverty of "tens of millions" in a country with 330 million habitants may be less severe than a smaller number of paupers in a tiny country, like Haiti for example.  And the civilians killed in a war have not all been "murdered". 

 

murder: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

 

Murder is what the Russian troops do in Ukraine, unlawful (war crimes), premeditated. This was also done by American troops,  the typical example of this being My Lai,  but not of "many millions of civilians".   

 

Absolute nonsense is the attitude of this 'tenor' who attempts to smear my country to provoke me.   Who knows how many atrocities has his country committed. 

 

But InBangkok's language seems quite civil on that quote. 

Ridiculous can't be compared with "nonsense" or other of your extreme words Steve. 

 

Also I don't see any smear on the USA. 

 

Are you in denial that the USA invaded various countries in the past?

 

 

[InBangkok]

On 5/9/2022 at 10:06 PM, Steve5380 said:

Of course a judgment has to be done comparatively.  The poverty of "tens of millions" in a country with 330 million habitants may be less severe than a smaller number of paupers in a tiny country, like Haiti for example.

That is ridiculous. If you are going to talk about comparisons, then you have no alternative but to consider the wealth of the average citizen. The USA is one of the wealthiest countries on the planet with vast numbers making a lot of money. The median net worth of the average US household in 2019 was $121,760. Yet the country continues to tolerate tens of millions of its citizens living below the poverty line.

 

It has a hugely higher average income compared to the example @Steve5380 considers worthy of comparison - Haiti. In Haiti the average income per head of population in 2020 was US$1,250. In Bangladesh household income is less than US$1,000 per annum. And he has the temerity to talk about comparisons! Poverty is poverty. Where is his sense of morality?

[Steve5380]

On 5/9/2022 at 11:24 AM, singalion said:

 

 

But InBangkok's language seems quite civil on that quote. 

Ridiculous can't be compared with "nonsense" or other of your extreme words Steve. 

 

Also I don't see any smear on the USA. 

 

Are you in denial that the USA invaded various countries in the past?

 

 

 

It is possible to write a lot of rubbish with flourished language.  And what you see in someone's posts is not the topic here.

[Steve5380]

Contrary to some tenor here,  Putin has shown some restrain in his speech yesterday.  So he might not be so insane as some think he is:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/09/politics/linda-thomas-greenfield-vladimir-putin-victory-day/index.html

 

(CNN)Vladimir Putin "has recognized he has no victory to celebrate," US Ambassador to the United Nations Linda Thomas-Greenfield told CNN in response to the lack of a major escalatory announcement in the Russian President's "Victory Day" speech Monday.

But the Russian leader also gave no indication that he plans to end the war in Ukraine, she cautioned.

 

In the first reaction from a Biden administration official to Putin's speech, Thomas-Greenfield noted to CNN that Putin did not use his remarks to announce a withdrawal from Ukraine -- which would have been welcomed by the United States -- which signals that Putin's war will continue.

"There was no reason for (Putin) to either declare victory or declare a war that he has already been carrying on for more than two months," Thomas-Greenfield said.

 

"His efforts in Ukraine have not succeeded," she added. "He was not able to go into Ukraine and bring them to their knees in a few days and have them surrender."

During a speech commemorating Russia's defeat of Nazi Germany at the end of World War II, Putin reiterated his baseless accusation that the West left him no choice but to invade Ukraine. Planned Victory Day air shows across Russia were canceled, raising questions as to why.

[Guest Putin the Great!]

On 5/10/2022 at 2:23 AM, Steve5380 said:

Contrary to some tenor here,  Putin has shown some restrain in his speech yesterday.  So he might not be so insane as some think he is:

Putin has always been very restrain in his invasion in Ukraine.  What are you talking about??

[Steve5380]

On 5/9/2022 at 8:35 PM, Guest Putin the Great! said:

Putin has always been very restrain in his invasion in Ukraine.  What are you talking about??

 

You are right.  Putin is invading Ukraine, but his restrain is that he never went there.  He does it all by proxy.

[InBangkok]

On 5/9/2022 at 10:06 PM, Steve5380 said:

Murder is what the Russian troops do in Ukraine, unlawful (war crimes), premeditated. This was also done by American troops,  the typical example of this being My Lai,  but not of "many millions of civilians".   

 

Absolute nonsense is the attitude of this 'tenor' who attempts to smear my country to provoke me.   Who knows how many atrocities has his country committed. 

I did say very specifically "since WWII" but then I was accusing the USA of something and that always sets @Steve5380 on edge. I was not talking about one event. Since @Steve5380 brings up an event in the ghastly Vietnam war,  he will know that 3 million Vietnamese were killed. Is he so insensitive that he fails to realise that a good many of these unnecessary deaths were civilians? What about the civilians massacred by US and CIA forces in Laos and Cambodia.

 

The US dropped 540,000 tons of bombs on Cambodia in several incursions. Isn't it more than a coincidence that Putin calls his invasion of Ukraine an incursion whereas this is precisely the term the US used for its undeclared  wars in Laos and Cambodia? After all the USA could not call them wars because only Congress can declare war and Congess knew nothing about them! Hasn't @Steve5380 just written above about "unlawful [war crimes], premeditated"?

 

Estimates of those killed in Cambodia range from 150,000 to 500,000 - all civilians. As for Laos, more than 50,000 civilians have been killed by US bombing. How about the civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? I stand by my statement "many millions" and challenge @Steve5380to prove me wrong. He can't because my statement was the truth.

 

And while on the subject of war, yesterday the New York Times won a coveted Pulitzer Prize for its international reporting of systemic flaws in the US programme of drone air strikes in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan which resulted in "significantly more civilian deaths than the Pentagon has admitted." The writer revealed "in shocking detail the tragic shortcomings of the air campaign."

 

So come on @Steve5380. Prove your point. But as I wrote above, you simply cannot. You cannot keep denying the truth. So withdraw your remark!

Edited May 10, 2022 by InBangkok