Taiwan, one of the unresolved issues in East Asia...

[PlayersGroup]

 

There you go, it is just a manifesto, The risk of being drawn into an unnecessary war with China by separatist delusional ideology prevented American presidents from supporting DPP's manifesto.

 

America, China, Taiwan, all have ideologies and propaganda.

[Steve5380]

 

 

China is no North Korea and though there is huge income disparity, the proportion of middle upper class with expanded life and educational opportunities has skyrocketed since opening up. See chart below from World Bank. Per Capita is above Thailand and Philippines. Most mainlanders and some Taiwanese are pro-unification.

 

 

It is good that in China the opportunities of the population are expanding, there is better education and higher income.  It is good... and it is bad.  Fewer people want to be workers in factories.  The cost of factory labor in Vietnam is HALF of that in China now.  Chinese workers are pricing themselves out of business.  

 

Let's hope that China is not heading towards an economic disaster.  The country should give priority to the subsistence of its population, especially the poorer one.  This is much more important than becoming the most powerful country in the world.

[PlayersGroup]

 

1. Chinese workers are pricing themselves out of business...Let's hope that China is not heading towards an economic disaster.

 

2. The country should give priority to the subsistence of its population, especially the poorer one.  This is much more important than becoming the most powerful country in the world.

 

Invariably as their workers move up the value chain, some work would become more preferable, the workers cannot compete on lower costs only. If Vietnam is more competitive, it will be Vietnam's opportunity to grow now. 

 

On economic woes, the housing crisis in China has been brewing a long time, Evergrande just filed for bankruptcy protection in US, and there's now rising youth unemployment and deflation. Can only hope for the best.

 

I shared that China is not North Korea only in the context of your opinion that most Chinese are struggling too much  to survive under authoritarian rule to have the capacity to have a clear position on the Taiwan issue. My response is that, no, majority of Chinese mainlanders are not that poor, and there is a broad consensus that they are pro-unification.

 

As for their aspiration to be the most powerful country in the world, I think if this aspiration is true, it is the result of having the humiliation by the colonial powers etched into their national and cultural consciousness. That's why it is highly unlikely they will retreat from their wish for reunification with Taiwan.

 

In that consciousness, only with HK, Macau and Taiwan all unified with the mainland, only then will the country be whole again.

 

As for poverty alleviation, according to The World Bank, since 1970s till now, China has lifted 800 million of its people (more than twice total population of US) above the international poverty line. This accounts for 75% of the reduction of poverty worldwide. Interprete it any other way, this doesn't seem like the work of an authoritarian regime that only cares about power and control and does not care about its "peasants".

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by PlayersGroup

[Steve5380]

 

 

I shared that China is not North Korea only in the context of your opinion that most Chinese are struggling too much  to survive under authoritarian rule to have the capacity to have a clear position on the Taiwan issue. My response is that, no, majority of Chinese mainlanders are not that poor, and there is a broad consensus that they are pro-unification.

 

As for their aspiration to be the most powerful country in the world, I think if this aspiration is true, it is the result of having the humiliation by the colonial powers etched into their national and cultural consciousness. That's why it is highly unlikely they will retreat from their wish for reunification with Taiwan.

 

In that consciousness, only with HK, Macau and Taiwan all unified with the mainland, only then will the country be whole again.

 

As for poverty alleviation, according to The World Bank, since 1970s till now, China has lifted 800 million of its people (more than twice total population of US) above the international poverty line. This accounts for 75% of the reduction of poverty worldwide. Interprete it any other way, this doesn't seem like the work of an authoritarian regime that only cares about power and control and does not care about its "peasants".

 

 

The meeting in Camp David of Biden and the leaders of Japan and South Korea resulted in an agreement between the three countries that deepen their economic and security ties.  

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-japan-south-korea-news-conference-watch-live-stream-today-2023-08-18/

 

This move of diplomacy shows that Biden is an effective leader in the foreign policy of the US.  Bringing Japan and S. Korea into a friendly relationship is very positive from all points of view. 

 

But China sees this move as threatening and encircling.  This is a pity, because the meeting could have included a Chinese leader, had this country maintained an attitude towards peace.  In reality, alliances between their neighbors would have any negative consequence for China ONLY if China decided to attack Taiwan.  If it maintains its status quo there won't be any conflicts, and China could enjoy a more friendly relationship with its neighbors.

 

The Chinese population should not retain any feelings of HUMILIATION.  The recent rise of their country as a very powerful one should replace humiliation with PRIDE.   Without any need for this pride to drive them to become THE superpower.  

 

Or should they make the same mistake the Germans did,  who tried to become a superpower after their humiliation of losing in world war one?  In Germany the humiliation was more a resentment for having suffered the economic disaster their loss brought by having to pay restitution for the war.  This did not happen to the Chinese.

 

[PlayersGroup]

 

In reality, alliances between their neighbors would have any negative consequence for China ONLY if China decided to attack Taiwan.  If it maintains its status quo there won't be any conflicts, and China could enjoy a more friendly relationship with its neighbors.

 

The Chinese population should not retain any feelings of HUMILIATION...

 

Or should they make the same mistake the Germans did,  who tried to become a superpower after their humiliation of losing in world war one?

 

I'm actually not prescribing to the Chinese what they should or should not feel. I'm merely trying to describe what indignation I think they could be feeling.

 

Also the comparison with Germans is inaccurate. Germany was an aggressor attacking sovereign countries to expand empire, as did the invading Japanese. US was also occupying China at a time to disarm and evacuate the Japanese and Koreans.

 

Mainland China on the other hand sees itself as trying to reunify their country broken up by foreign intervention and civil war . There is a disconnect in understanding between what you perceive and what Mainland Chinese possibly perceive.

[Guest Not updated]

 

There is a disconnect in understanding between what you perceive and what Mainland Chinese possibly perceive.

You are wasting your time talking on an elderly man who continue living in the colonial era and is caught up in his dream of an infallible western empire while every other nation is a failure thru his blurry eyes. 

[Steve5380]

 

 

I'm actually not prescribing to the Chinese what they should or should not feel. I'm merely trying to describe what indignation I think they could be feeling.

 

Also the comparison with Germans is inaccurate. Germany was an aggressor attacking sovereign countries to expand empire, as did the invading Japanese. US was also occupying China at a time to disarm and evacuate the Japanese and Koreans.

 

Mainland China on the other hand sees itself as trying to reunify their country broken up by foreign intervention and civil war . There is a disconnect in understanding between what you perceive and what Mainland Chinese possibly perceive.

 

I agree with you, and I am even less qualified to prescribe what the Chinese should feel.  I merely judge that their indignation today should focus on nature with its typhoons, and their government who allowed the housing crisis and unemployment. 

 

And I would not see China as "broken up" because a small island of 36,000 km2, a 0.4% of the extent of its mainland of 9,600,000 km2, with a population of 23.6 million, a  1.7% of its 1.4 billion population,  has decided to live independently.   

 

And how about the 50,000 Chinese estimated to live throughout the world outside the two Chinas?  Should the PRC threaten the countries of the world to return to China THEIR people, or else... ?

[PlayersGroup]

 

You are wasting your time talking on an elderly man who continue living in the colonial era and is caught up in his dream of an infallible western empire while every other nation is a failure thru his blurry eyes. 

 

I think we are all wasting time on this forum, just that Steve probably worked his whole life n has more time on his hands. Have some respect.

 

[PlayersGroup]

 

Their government who allowed the housing crisis and unemployment. 

 

And I would not see China as "broken up" because a small island of 36,000 km2, a 0.4% of the extent of its mainland of 9,600,000 km2, with a population of 23.6 million, a  1.7% of its 1.4 billion population,  has decided to live independently. 

 

I'm not sure if it's fair to say their government allowed the housing crisis and unemployment but ok I think it's ok to say being government they are responsible to steward the economy to a better place.

 

I'm also not sure your idea of letting an area be independent just because of its small land size relative to the whole would make sense to the average Chinese citizen. 

 

Maybe, if Rhode Island or Ohio was annexed by a foreign power, and then eventually decided they want to be independent, Americans might agree to it. But that doesn't mean people the world over should believe or behave based on how Americans are, right?

 

[Steve5380]

 

 

I'm also not sure your idea of letting an area be independent just because of its small land size relative to the whole would make sense to the average Chinese citizen. 

 

Maybe, if Rhode Island or Ohio was annexed by a foreign power, and then eventually decided they want to be independent, Americans might agree to it. But that doesn't mean people the world over should believe or behave based on how Americans are, right?

 

 

I am also not sure if it would make sense to the average Chinese.  But...  what does this matter?   1.4 billion Chinese is too many to expect them to make sense,  and they have the right to not make it.  The important thing is that WE make sense to OURSELVES!   

 

I have a more pressing issue:  how convince 50% of Republicans, millions of Americans,  to make sense that Trump is a liar, a deceiver, a criminal that washed their brains in 2016 and beyond!  This cannot be expected,  and it is not necessary if in November 2024  the Democrats get one more electoral vote than the Republicans!  

[Steve5380]

 

You are wasting your time talking on an elderly man who continue living in the colonial era and is caught up in his dream of an infallible western empire while every other nation is a failure thru his blurry eyes. 

 

As my blurry eyes scan your post,  it came to mind that America stopped being a colony much, much earlier than Singapore did.  While you kept and keep preserving British colonial laws for a long time, like the 377A only recently repealed,  the US has had its own constitution and laws for over 250 years.  We never had a colonial 377A,  instead we have now a progressive same-sex marriage. 

[Guest What???????????]

 

 

I am also not sure if it would make sense to the average Chinese.  But...  what does this matter?   1.4 billion Chinese is too many to expect them to make sense,  and they have the right to not make it.  The important thing is that WE make sense to OURSELVES!   

 

Are you NUT!!!  Stop trying to make sense out of your own fantasy.  China and Taiwan are two peas in the same pod.  Deal with it.

[PlayersGroup]

 

But...  what does this matter?   1.4 billion Chinese is too many to expect them to make sense,  and they have the right to not make it.  The important thing is that WE make sense to OURSELVES!   

 

True that, we are all armchair critics here trying to make sense of the world.

 

Although I would argue what makes sense to you is not what makes sense to Chinese mainlanders. You value the right to autonomy of the majority of  Taiwanese more (who are for status quo), the mainland Chinese value reunification of their nation more. Different values, not that they are not making sense.

[Steve5380]

 

 

True that, we are all armchair critics here trying to make sense of the world.

 

Although I would argue what makes sense to you is not what makes sense to Chinese mainlanders. You value the right to autonomy of the majority of  Taiwanese more (who are for status quo), the mainland Chinese value reunification of their nation more. Different values, not that they are not making sense.

 

Again I completely agree with you.  We are all armchair critics of everything.  As normal individuals, one in 8 billion, we are insignificant to the world.   And what makes sense to us covers a wide variety.

 

And still, the mainland Chinese should they not value reunification with their boyfriends and girlfriends, instead of some strangers in a distant island where they have never been?  And the majority of them don't know much about semiconductors.

[Steve5380]

 

Are you NUT!!!  Stop trying to make sense out of your own fantasy.  China and Taiwan are two peas in the same pod.  Deal with it.

 

As an engineer, I know plenty about NUTs and BOLTs.  But please realize this:  my fantasy will NEVER go so far as to believe that two NATIONS are " two peas in the same pod ".  How will you cook nations?

.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Steve5380

[Guest Poor Americans]

 

 

As my blurry eyes scan your post,  it came to mind that America stopped being a colony much, much earlier than Singapore did.  While you kept and keep preserving British colonial laws for a long time, like the 377A only recently repealed,  the US has had its own constitution and laws for over 250 years.  We never had a colonial 377A,  instead we have now a progressive same-sex marriage. 

 

 

Yup, the US had the Second Amendment since the early days of its founding, hence its gun violence problems will never be solved  and mass shootings carried on in the country like any day while such problems are non-existent in Singapore.

 

While SG certainly took a while to repeal 377A, it will take a civil war in the US to repeal the Second Amendment especially  in these current times when the left and right distrust each other and its  people dun trust the police and the government.

 

So yup, we will continue to look  at the news to see which poor chap or lass in the US lost their lives over meaningless gun shootings which is going to happen anytime soon. Poor Americans, lgbts here may have enjoyed fewer freedom rights here e.g. same sex marriage  but our lives here are much more worthwhile than those wretched Americans in the US who never know when they will be killed in gun shootings  incidents  or murdered by criminals, drug addicts or homeless people. I feel so lucky here in SG.

 

 

[Guest Green Card Holder]

 

 

As an engineer, I know plenty about NUTs and BOLTs.  But please realize this:  my fantasy will NEVER go so far as to believe that two NATIONS are " two peas in the same pod ".  How will you cook nations?

.

Not the way America wanted to cook it.  China prefer the pod stays intact and remains unmolested by the West. 

 

As for Taiwanese who wanted to be independent, only about 33% supported and out of which many have green cards including the DPP current and deputy president, who will dissappear immediately, from the island, at the first sign of war.  Your view that "all taiwanese" wanted independent is purely your own opinion and best you kept it quietly to yourself. 

[PlayersGroup]

 

Your view that "all taiwanese" wanted independent is purely your own opinion and best you kept it quietly to yourself. 

 

DPP has held the majority for presidency and is also the majority in legislative yuan now. So I would say the opinion is not baseless.

 

 

 

 

As normal individuals, one in 8 billion, we are insignificant to the world.

 

And still, the mainland Chinese should they not value reunification with their boyfriends and girlfriends, instead of some strangers in a distant island where they have never been?

 

Im glad we agree by and large that we are armchair critics here with our iwn views. But hey it took 13.8 billion years for the universe to produce us, beings that can look back and ponder about the universe. I think each of us is very  special, not insignificant.

 

Again I don't presume or prescribe what the Chinese should feel or do, I just describe how I think they are. There may come a time in future where China is not communist and Taiwan is not democratic and both are unified with a third political philosophy, who's to know for sure? 

 

If Republicans and Democrats want to declare independence from each other, would u agree with it?

 

American-style democracy as it plays out now leaves much to be desired. It may not be the final answer to all human politics after all, although I wouldn't agree with authoritarian rule either.

 

[Guest 65%]

 

 

DPP has held the majority for presidency and is also the majority in legislative yuan now. So I would say the opinion is not baseless.

 

33% is also considered majority and that doesn't mean he is approved by 67% who didn't voted for DPP.  I remember Tony Tan has only 35% supporters that makes him a president. The rest didn't support him for knowing what kind he was. 

[PlayersGroup]

 

33% is also considered majority and that doesn't mean he is approved by 67% who didn't voted for DPP.  I remember Tony Tan has only 35% supporters that makes him a president. The rest didn't support him for knowing what kind he was. 

 

It's 57% of votes not 33%. People in China don't even get to vote.

 

The DPP vote share was actually boosted because the Taiwanese saw the crackdown on Hongkong.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/taiwanese-voters-head-to-polls-in-closely-watched-election

 

"Final results from the Central Election Commission showed Ms Tsai winning 57 per cent or 8.17 million of the votes, almost 20 per cent more than Mr Han (KMT). Mr James Soong of People First Party had some 4 per cent or 600,000 votes."

 

"The people have made their decision, and as candidates, we must respect the results. I can only say I haven't worked hard enough," said Mr Han, who called for the island to put aside its differences."

Edited August 22, 2023 by PlayersGroup

[Steve5380]

 

 

Im glad we agree by and large that we are armchair critics here with our iwn views. But hey it took 13.8 billion years for the universe to produce us, beings that can look back and ponder about the universe. I think each of us is very  special, not insignificant.

 

 

I predicted some disagreement, and so I wrote that "we are insignificant TO THE WORLD".   With millions being born and dying every day,  THE WORLD cannot care if we as individuals exist or not.   But each of us is very special to ourselves and to those we interact with.

 

Imagine how exquisitely complex is an integrated circuit with billions of transistors on it.  But if I break one to pieces with a hammer, I have only lost some money and not damaged the industry of integrated circuits.

[Guest Unnecessary Fear]

 

 

You said it right, gleefully .  What else matters ???   What would an alien think of us humans? I would not dare an answer,  but the alien would probably agree that the need of a "reunification" of China is making a mountain out of a molehill. 

 

Given that Taiwan is legally a part of China's territory, It  should be a non-event whichever China wanted to do with its own territory. The fundamental issue stems from America's attempt to whip up a storm in China teapot thinking it could break the sturdy teapot. 

[PlayersGroup]

 

Given that Taiwan is legally a part of China's territory, It  should be a non-event whichever China wanted to do with its own territory.

 

Nope. It is precisely what Mainland did, or is perceived to be doing, to its own people, that is influencing majority of  Taiwanese about reunification with the mainland. If the two sides shared the same political ideals, there wouldn't have been a civil war in the first place.

 

Governing a people doesn't mean one can do whatever they want. It means being responsible for one's citizens. 

[PlayersGroup]

 

he's a much fatter and bigger toad swimming in a much smaller dish plate.

 

It's 2023. What's with still attacking people for being big or fat, or old.

[obgdcriv]

 

Given that Taiwan is legally a part of China's territory, It  should be a non-event whichever China wanted to do with its own territory. The fundamental issue stems from America's attempt to whip up a storm in China teapot thinking it could break the sturdy teapot. 

 

Taiwan was NEVER part of China.

[Guest United Nations]

 

 

Taiwan was NEVER part of China.

 

WAS NEVER ? Really ?  However,  presently Taiwan IS PART of China. So says the UN. Period. Haha.

 

 

[obgdcriv]

 

 

WAS NEVER ? Really ?  However,  presently Taiwan IS PART of China. So says the UN. Period. Haha.

 

 

 

Stupid guest posting untruths, hahahaha... go fuck off.

 

https://www.gmfus.org/news/distortion-un-resolution-2758-and-limits-taiwans-access-united-nations

 

Parlacen cited UN's 1971 expulsion of Taiwan, claiming it deemed Taiwan a "province of mainland China." Yet, UN Res. 2758 did not determine the status of Taiwan or define its role.

 

 

[obgdcriv]

 

 

WAS NEVER ? Really ?  However,  presently Taiwan IS PART of China. So says the UN. Period. Haha.

 

 

 

Stupid guest posting untruths, hahahaha... go fuck off.

 

https://www.gmfus.org/news/distortion-un-resolution-2758-and-limits-taiwans-access-united-nations

 

Parlacen cited UN's 1971 expulsion of Taiwan, claiming it deemed Taiwan a "province of mainland China." Yet, UN Res. 2758 did not determine the status of Taiwan or define its role.

 

 

[Steve5380]

 

 

WAS NEVER ? Really ?  However,  presently Taiwan IS PART of China. So says the UN. Period. Haha.

 

 

What a naive conclusion!  Since when what the UN "says" should create or delete nations? 

 

At the time 50 years ago there was ONE seat in the UN for a "China",  and it was decided that this seat should go to the mainland, the PRC.   In order to avoid conflicts with the PRC,  many nations accepted that Taiwan was left without a seat, and this is still unresolved.  The UN should create this second Chinese seat for Taiwan,  and so your argument will evaporate.  

[Guest Conclusively decided]

 

 In order to avoid conflicts with the PRC,  many nations accepted that Taiwan was left without a seat, and this is still unresolved. 

It is not unresolved, but a final conclusive and collective world decision.  Case closed!

 

The UN should create this second Chinese seat for Taiwan,  and so your argument will evaporate.  

Not possible, unless UN has decided to lose its own credibility and integrity.  So far, the whole planets earth have only less than 5 countries (intended to cheat Taiwan limited reserves)  wanted to have diplomatic ties with Taiwan, and America is treading on a thin line with its relationship with Taiwan too,  but only as weaponry clients, out of fear that Taiwan motherland (China) will get angry. That says a lot about Taiwan standing on internatinonal stage.

 

 

[Guest Real World]

 

 

What a naive conclusion!  Since when what the UN "says" should create or delete nations? 

 

At the time 50 years ago there was ONE seat in the UN for a "China",  and it was decided that this seat should go to the mainland, the PRC.   In order to avoid conflicts with the PRC,  many nations accepted that Taiwan was left without a seat, and this is still unresolved.  The UN should create this second Chinese seat for Taiwan,  and so your argument will evaporate.  

 

You are the one who's naive hahaha ! In Steve5380's dreamworld, Taiwan is never part of China. 

 

In the real world, Taiwan is recognised by the UN to be part of China. Hence, Taiwan  IS NOT a member of the UN. The government of China is the PRC, so the government of Taiwan is under PRC regardless whether Steve5380 likes it or  not. LOL 

 

 

 

[Guest Real World]

 

It is not unresolved, but a final conclusive and collective world decision.  Case closed!

Not possible, unless UN has decided to lose its own credibility and integrity.  So far, the whole planets earth have only less than 5 countries (intended to cheat Taiwan limited reserves)  wanted to have diplomatic ties with Taiwan, and America is treading on a thin line with its relationship with Taiwan too,  but only as weaponry clients, out of fear that Taiwan motherland (China) will get angry. That says a lot about Taiwan standing on internatinonal stage.

 

 

 

Second that !

 

[mate69]

Omgggg all that spam!

Mods, pls help delete and ban

Thanks

[Guest Abnormal]

 

The UN should create this second Chinese seat for Taiwan,  and so your argument will evaporate.  

That will look weird, don't you think so.  It was like asking to have a pair of eyes  for your ass cheek when it doesn't need to. 

[Guest 台湾是中国的]

 

 

Stupid guest posting untruths, hahahaha... go fuck off.

 

https://www.gmfus.org/news/distortion-un-resolution-2758-and-limits-taiwans-access-united-nations

 

Parlacen cited UN's 1971 expulsion of Taiwan, claiming it deemed Taiwan a "province of mainland China." Yet, UN Res. 2758 did not determine the status of Taiwan or define its role.

 

 

 

I think you are the one who is posting the untruths. Be it if you are DPP's supporters or China haters,  it is undisputed truth that Taiwan is part China, a fact that is acknowledged by many countries in the world including Singapore and the US.

 

 

 

[obgdcriv]

 

 

I think you are the one who is posting the untruths. Be it if you are DPP's supporters or China haters,  it is undisputed truth that Taiwan is part China, a fact that is acknowledged by many countries in the world including Singapore and the US.

 

 

 

 

Source?  

 

None.

[Guest 台湾是中国的]

 

 

Source?  

 

None.

 

 

Can Taiwan join UN or WHO as a independent sovereign state member ? No, it can't as it is never one cos it is already part of China.

 

 

 

 

[obgdcriv]

 

 

 

Can Taiwan join UN or WHO as a independent sovereign state member ? No, it can't as it is never one cos it is already part of China.

 

 

 

 

 

Ignoring your posts because you are nothing but an ANONYMOUS, BALLESS guest who has NO BALLS to register an account.

[Guest 台湾是中国的]

 

 

Ignoring your posts because you are nothing but an ANONYMOUS, BALLESS guest who has NO BALLS to register an account.

 

 

Ignoring me then why post a reply  ??  Ignoring me because I'm a guest ?? Then why are you making posts here in the Main Forum where guests are allowed to post ? You don't make sense. You could  continue your misguided views in the Member's Lounge Thread if you so desire to push your misleading agenda discussion with registered members.

 

 

[Steve5380]

 

 

Ignoring your posts because you are nothing but an ANONYMOUS, BALLESS guest who has NO BALLS to register an account.

 

Yes, it seems that there is here a majority of anonymous ball-less guests who have no balls to register and account ,and who use their anonymity to post falsities about the possibility of Taiwan to become a new member of the UN, under a different name than plain "China".

 

Very recently in 2011 the UN added a new member,  South Sudan,  who did split from Sudan after a referendum:

 

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/which-country-is-the-latest-to-join-the-un-as-a-member.html

 

Becoming A UN Member

A country may join and become a member of the UN when the General Assembly of the UN admits them following the recommendation of the Security Council. The United Nations charter states that any country can become a member as long as they are peace-loving and can consent to the obligations as stated in the charter of the UN. The recognition of a new nation or a government is the prerogative of other states and governments that can choose to recognize or reject to recognize. This implies that the countries that recognize another nation are ready to initiate diplomatic relations. Given that the UN is not a government and neither is it a state, it has no power to recognize either a government or a state. Because the United Nations is an organization of independent states, it may choose to admit a new state as a member or accept credentials from the representatives of a new government.

Procedures To Follow To Be A Member

A state wishing to be a member of the United Nations would submit to the Secretary-General an application and a written communication affirming that it is accepting the application according to the charter of the United Nations. The security council of the UN would consider the application, and any recommendation to be admitted must have affirmative votes of at least 9 out of the 15 council members, as long as the five permanent council members have not voted against the application. The five permanent members of the United Nations with veto powers include the United States, China, Russia, France, and the United Kingdom. Members of the Security Council recommends the resolution to admit a state to the General Assembly for deliberation, and at least 2/3 majority vote is required in the General Assembly for the state to be admitted. The membership becomes operative from the date when the resolve for admission is approved.

 

We can recognize that THE REASON why Taiwan has not become an independent member of the UN yet is because China is one of the five permanent members who have the power of VETO.

 

Hopefully a way is found to override a CAPRICIOUS INTERESTED VETO  from a country that wants to impede that the population in a separate fraction of it has valid reasons to become independent.  

[Guest huh!]

 

 

Yes, it seems that there is here a majority of anonymous ball-less guests who have no balls to register and account ,and who use their anonymity to post falsities o become independent.  

I see. Being a Member gave you the license to lie?

[Steve5380]

 

I see. Being a Member gave you the license to lie?

 

At least as a member one cannot lie so shamefully and open as an anonymous guest...  

[Guest Moot]

 

 

Yes, it seems that there is here a majority of anonymous ball-less guests who have no balls to register and account ,and who use their anonymity to post falsities about the possibility of Taiwan to become a new member of the UN, under a different name than plain "China".

 

 

 

The view is moot since the main forum is for guests to make their posts. If Steve5380 wants to have a discussion with BW members on the issue,  he could leave this thread and take it to the Members lounge forum instead of making rants here like a crazed lunatic. 

 

[Guest Gospel]

 

 

At least as a member one cannot lie so shamefully..  

Of course, member cannot lie so shamefully, but member like you can lie shamelessly, is that what you meant?😬

[Guest Truth prevails]

 

 

 The recognition of a new nation or a government is the prerogative of other states and governments that can choose to recognize or reject to recognize. This implies that the countries that recognize another nation are ready to initiate diplomatic relations. 

 

Thanks for highlighting.  How many states have formal diplomatic relations with Taiwan  ? Is it 100 ? Nope. Hmm, 50 ? Nope. Can't be 20 right ? Nope, it's 12 out of the 193 United Nations member states . Oh why ? Cos most countries recognise that Taiwan is part of China. Steve5380's can hallucinate and spews out untruths all he likes but the hard truth prevails, there is only one China and Taiwan (aka ROC) is part of China.

 

[Guest wahahahaha]

 

 

Thanks for highlighting.  How many states have formal diplomatic relations with Taiwan  ? Is it 100 ? Nope. Hmm, 50 ? Nope. Can't be 20 right ? Nope, it's 12 out of the 193.

 

12, which one?  I thought only 2 and if you add Steve5380, it should be 2+1 silly old man.....wahahahaha

[PlayersGroup]

The mainland supporters can try to win every petty argument online, or be rude to Steve or anyone else who disagrees, but sadly cannot win over the hearts and minds of the majority of Taiwanese.

[Guest Stupid Hearts & Minds]

 

The mainland supporters can try to win every petty argument online, or be rude to Steve or anyone else who disagrees, but sadly cannot win over the hearts and minds of the majority of Taiwanese.

If Tawainese still believed in DPP's hook, line and sinker,  it is SAD indeed. 

[singalion]

 

 

Stupid guest posting untruths, hahahaha... go fuck off.

 

https://www.gmfus.org/news/distortion-un-resolution-2758-and-limits-taiwans-access-united-nations

 

Parlacen cited UN's 1971 expulsion of Taiwan, claiming it deemed Taiwan a "province of mainland China." Yet, UN Res. 2758 did not determine the status of Taiwan or define its role.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you are the one who is posting the untruths. Be it if you are DPP's supporters or China haters,  it is undisputed truth that Taiwan is part China, a fact that is acknowledged by many countries in the world including Singapore and the US.

 

 

 

 

Factually both Governments have had the stance of a "one China" policy.

 

Taiwan has been defending that it had the only recognised Chinese government following 1949, while the Communist Mainland Chinese Party claimed same.

 

Actually, it was the US that dropped its policy to support the Republic of China (= Taiwan) as the sole representative of China in the UN. (Nixon and Kissinger in the 1970s).

 

Initially Taiwan held the UN seat representing China for about 20 years (and the security council seat).

 

Taiwan was unsuccessful in maintaining support by the majority of countries and was during negotiations on staying as a member of the UN uncompromising.

 

In 1971 Taiwan walked out of the UN in view of the UN resolution 2758.

That was a huge error made by the Taiwan side as they should have taken the compromise in staying in the UN (but not representing "mainland" China. Taiwan my have reached independence had it not objected to the compromise.

 

 

On October 25, 1971, the UN General Assembly passed United Nations Resolution 2758 (XXVI) which stated that the People's Republic of China is the only legitimate government of China. The resolution replaced the ROC with the PRC as a permanent member of the Security Council in the United Nations.

 

While the US voted against this resolution but at the same time did not prevent it through their veto rights.

 

As for the historical background: The previous mainland Chinese government fled from the mainland onto Taiwan while being attacked from the Communist uprising within China.

 

In these means, the Communists did not manage in win over the whole of the previous Chinese territory and the Republic of China representatives (in Taiwan) were the legitimate governors of China who had been previously elected by the Chinese people. Those were the representatives that were internationally recognised as representing China.

 

The PRC having the upper hand was due to a shift of policy by the US in recognising Mainland China and the Communist China in the early 1970s.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by singalion

[Guest Taiwan_Best-China_Sxxk]