All on China & China's Political Discussions (Compiled)

[Guest Give up]

2 hours ago, PlayersGroup said:

 

If New York ot Texas decided to break away from USA, what would US do?

 

And Xi Jingping and Biden have agreed they can and do work together, who are we to disagree?

No point debating with a 81 yo stubborn elderly man in this forum.

[PlayersGroup]

35 minutes ago, Guest Give up said:

No point debating with a 81 yo stubborn elderly man in this forum.

 

I think u misunderstand. I have lots of goodwill for Steve even if we disagree. What's with being 81 yo? Don't be ageist.

[Steve5380]

10 hours ago, Guest Give up said:

No point debating with a 81 yo stubborn elderly man in this forum.

 

The President of the United States,  widely considered "the most powerful man on earth",  is a 81 yo.  He fulfills his super important role with competency and smartness.  Yes, he has outsmarted so many of his opponents!   He is in sharp contrast with the previous president,  a 77 yo criminal who has suffered a mental breakdown into a second infancy.

 

So you see,  two 81 yo men of character who could only feel sorry for a "Guest Give up" who is a wishy-washy irresponsible insecure  individual who does not have the guts to post in a gay forum with an identity but must hide behind the  anonymity of a "guest".    Hopefully you grow some balls one day.  

[Steve5380]

10 hours ago, PlayersGroup said:

 

I think u misunderstand. I have lots of goodwill for Steve even if we disagree. What's with being 81 yo? Don't be ageist.

 

He misunderstood completely.  I have the same good will towards you,  and I like your moral position that favors your ethnic group, nationality,  the same way I favor mine.  This is a good situation for a conversation, discussion, debate,  instead of having to preach to the choir.   After all, we are simply observers,  not real actors,  in the world scheme.

[Guest Give Up]

23 hours ago, PlayersGroup said:

 

I think u misunderstand. I have lots of goodwill for Steve even if we disagree. What's with being 81 yo? Don't be ageist.

I did not misunderstand you.  I simply deemed your goodwill with "that think"meainingless to us.  Let me explain:  Steve5380 is irrational and mostly emotional. He regards Joe Biden as the 2nd coming of Jesus and America the world saviour.  You are patronising his crave for such attention.    Specifically, the former believed Taiwan, Hong Kong and Tibet do no belong to China and Xingjiang people were living in hell and there is no way you can alter his view even with your explaination.  He will choose to ignore you on area he was so wrong, but seleclively pick the area where you supported him to twist the stories about China.  This is what I call - PARTNER IN CRIME.   I guess, no point debating with people with so much hatre about China, even if China were to save the entire world from falling apart, including you and the life of your love ones.

[PlayersGroup]

5 hours ago, Guest Give Up said:

I did not misunderstand you.  I simply deemed your goodwill with "that think"meainingless to us.  Let me explain:  Steve5380 is irrational and mostly emotional. He regards Joe Biden as the 2nd coming of Jesus and America the world saviour.  You are patronising his crave for such attention.    Specifically, the former believed Taiwan, Hong Kong and Tibet do no belong to China and Xingjiang people were living in hell and there is no way you can alter his view even with your explaination.  He will choose to ignore you on area he was so wrong, but seleclively pick the area where you supported him to twist the stories about China.  This is what I call - PARTNER IN CRIME.   I guess, no point debating with people with so much hatre about China, even if China were to save the entire world from falling apart, including you and the life of your love ones.

 

My English must be very bad, cos I don't understand what you are saying. Your opinion of @Steve5380 is your opinion. I'm merely saying I disagree with ur opinion and u don't need to say he's 81yo, so what if he's 81? To be 81yo and able to banter on Blowing Wind is great. We should be respectful of people whether they are 18, 48 or 88.

 

Not everybody has to like China, China is not perfect. One also does not need to like everything about China. We can appreciate China, see its strengths but don't pretend it doesnt have its flaws. Just like we do America or Singapore. 

[Steve5380]

10 hours ago, Guest Give Up said:

I did not misunderstand you.  I simply deemed your goodwill with "that think"meainingless to us.  Let me explain:  Steve5380 is irrational and mostly emotional. He regards Joe Biden as the 2nd coming of Jesus and America the world saviour.  You are patronising his crave for such attention.    Specifically, the former believed Taiwan, Hong Kong and Tibet do no belong to China and Xingjiang people were living in hell and there is no way you can alter his view even with your explaination.  He will choose to ignore you on area he was so wrong, but seleclively pick the area where you supported him to twist the stories about China.  This is what I call - PARTNER IN CRIME.   I guess, no point debating with people with so much hatre about China, even if China were to save the entire world from falling apart, including you and the life of your love ones.

 

Ha ha ha...  😄  Thanks for the chuckle!

 

I am usually judged as rational and non emotional.  If rarely someone says I am "irrational and mostly emotional" it is because he lost an argument with me.   But...  there is no argument between us.  Because it is not possible to hold an argument with you.  Calm down,  and Give Up.

[auscent]

With Taiwan's presidential election coming soon and the crackdowns in HK, hopefully less turmoil in this region

 

[Guest Oops!!]

On 1/3/2024 at 10:30 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

I am usually judged as rational and non emotional.  If rarely someone says I am "irrational and mostly emotional" it is because he lost an argument with me. 

Absolutely!!  You deserve a golden trophy for that.

[singalion]

On 1/3/2024 at 11:24 AM, Guest Give Up said:

I did not misunderstand you.  I simply deemed your goodwill with "that think"meainingless to us.  Let me explain:  Steve5380 is irrational and mostly emotional. He regards Joe Biden as the 2nd coming of Jesus and America the world saviour.  You are patronising his crave for such attention.    Specifically, the former believed Taiwan, Hong Kong and Tibet do no belong to China and Xingjiang people were living in hell and there is no way you can alter his view even with your explaination.  He will choose to ignore you on area he was so wrong, but seleclively pick the area where you supported him to twist the stories about China.  This is what I call - PARTNER IN CRIME.   I guess, no point debating with people with so much hatre about China, even if China were to save the entire world from falling apart, including you and the life of your love ones.

 

The only thing irrational I saw in this thread the past days is above post. 

 

Who being rational would unconditionally praise China?

 

It might be your personal opinion what you wrote about China, but a vast majority of Singaporeans doesn't believe a single word of your unbacked claims about Taiwan, Hong Kong and Tibet do no belong to China and Xingjiang people were living in hell. 

 

If you had a bit of history knowledge you would know how Tibet ended up in the PRC. 

 

Tibet was an independent country since the 14th century. 

 

Please get some history knowledge on China, Tibet etc! It's deeply embarrassing...

 

 

[Steve5380]

58 minutes ago, Guest Oops!! said:

Absolutely!!  You deserve a golden trophy for that.

 

To your golden trophy,  thanks by NO thanks.  In the whole BW I am the least indicated to receive it, because...  I am not a bottom.  

[Steve5380]

3 minutes ago, singalion said:

 

If you had a bit of history knowledge you would know how Tibet ended up in the PRC. 

 

Tibet was an independent country since the 14th century. 

 

Please get some history knowledge on China, Tibet etc! It's deeply embarrassing...

 

 

Tibet is a perfect example of the hypocrisy and double standards of the Chinese government.  It claims a right over Taiwan based on HISTORY,  but based on HISTORY it does not respect the independence of Tibet.

 

Germans and Japanese are deserving excellent folks.  But in the past they had governments that were monstrosities.  The same happens with China today.  The good Chinese folks just need to get rid of the government they have now, and their country will become an example. 

 

About half of Americans are deserving excellent people, and today there is a battle where the excellent ones are trying to avoid a return to the criminal monstrosity that were governing them a few years ago and who still has the support of so many ignorant, malevolent, stupid, Americans. 

 

 

[Steve5380]

There are increasing number of videos like the following,  and one's heart goes out to the many Chinese who after years of skillful labor lose their sources of income and their investments vanish in the crush of the housing market:

 

 

What is left for the recent school graduates that should be ready to enter the labor markets???

 

A smart move for Chinese workers should be:  emigration.   America is a land of opportunities being quite underpopulated and having a low unemployment rate.  One hears of increasing number of Chinese heading for the US,  many trying to enter by joining the refugees at the southern border.  The US should increase their acceptance of Chinese immigrants who have high qualifications in skills, education, experience in what matters today:  technology, science.  

 

If China had a decent government,  it would recognize that its manufacturing bonanza is coming to an end due to its aggressiveness.  It should stop its military buildup and postpone any plans to invade Taiwan, say, from 2027 to 2047.  ( I will be 104 years by then, and can accept leaving this world when a Chinese nuclear bomb detonates over Houston...) It could eliminate its draconian dictatorial restrictions on foreign companies and try to attract foreign business again. 

 

I believe that all the negative forces against China come from the China's government ambitions and plans to become THE Leading Power in the world.  BUT...  China has NOT been the Leading Power so far in the 21th century and... has lived quite GOOD until very recently.  WHY could it not continue as a second or third or fourth power but...  in peace, with a happy and prosperous population? 

 

[singalion]

Taiwan has elections starting tomorrow and nobody here has any contribution or discussion on that topic.

 

This highlights that those Guests and bizarre members who contribute here previously in fact just intend to post on an certain agenda but aren't interested in any serious discussion. 

[singalion]

 

 

 

Inflatables, hip-hop rallies, and a missile alarm: Taiwan to vote in election that’s too close to call

Fri 12 Jan 2024

 

Voting begins on Saturday in the most closely watched election in Taiwan since its first in 1996 amid the existential threat of China

 

 

 

In the final days of an election campaign that has been framed as a choice between “war and peace” or “democracy and autocracy”, a nationwide air raid warning over a satellite launch from China could well have caused panic.

 

Instead, the piercingly loud bilingual presidential alert prompted confusion, mistranslating the Chinese word for satellite into “missile” in English, and anger, as opposition politicians quickly accused the government of fear mongering days before an election that will have far-reaching implications beyond Taiwan.

 

On Saturday, the island nation of 24 million people heads into its most closely watched, and closely contested, presidential election since the Asian democracy’s first in 1996. Polls will open at 8am, closing eight hours later, with a result expected in the evening. About 19.5 million people are eligible to vote, and in 2020 almost 75% of them did.

 

 

Politically, Taiwan is deeply polarised, but it proudly and chaotically embraces the process of its relatively new democracy. Election season is a jumble of boisterous campaign events, juvenile sniping, fake news and political scandals that often overshadow the serious and complex policy debates about Taiwan’s evolving identity, its place in a world that doesn’t recognise it, and the existential threat of China.

Taiwan enjoys a somewhat chaotic election campaign trail. A DPP supporter makes her feelings known in Taipei on Thursday. Photograph: Sawayasu Tsuji/Getty Images

 

President Tsai Ing-wen is stepping down because of term limits, but her vice-president, Lai Ching-te, is standing as the continuity candidate. Tsai and Lai come from the Democratic Progressive party (DPP), an outfit detested by Beijing, which views them as separatists. China views Taiwan as a province and has long vowed to “re-unify” it with China. It has not ruled out the use of force to achieve that aim, a prospect that threatens to bring the region, and possibly the world, into conflict.

 

Facing Lai is charismatic former police chief, Hou You-yi, from the more conservative Kuomintang (KMT), which advocates for closer economic ties with China. Both parties oppose Chinese annexation, but Hou bills himself as the candidate who will be able to engage in the dialogue with Beijing that Lai is “incapable” of.

 

KMT presidential candidate Hou Yui-yi advocates for closer economic ties with China. Photograph: Wiktor Dąbkowski/ZUMA Press Wire/REX/Shutterstock

 

Rockstar welcomes

 

While China looms large over the election, domestic issues are important, too. The number one concern for voters is the economy, according to surveys. That reflects the fact that real wages have grown by an average of just 1% over the past decade. Affordable housing remains out of reach for many young people. The opposition parties blame the DPP for economic mismanagement, holding the party responsible for egg shortages and power blackouts that have hit the island in recent years.

 

 

 

There are deep ideological differences between the major parties. The KMT opposition previously ruled Taiwan under an authoritarian dictatorship for decades after fleeing the Chinese civil war and establishing the Republic of China government in exile. It identifies Taiwan as culturally and ethnically linked with China. The ruling DPP, born out of the anti-authoritarian movement, supports Taiwan sovereignty and promotes a Taiwanese identity that is separate from China.

 

TPP presidential candidate Ko Wen-je sits next to a giant inflatable balloon resembling him at an event ahead of Taiwan’s presidential elections. Photograph: I-Hwa Cheng/AFP/Getty Images

 

A few months ago it seemed almost a given that the DPP would retain the presidency, but now observers aren’t so certain.

 

The race began with a public and farcical collapse of the opposition parties’ attempts to form a coalition. Several news cycles were spent on the KMT vice-presidential candidate claiming in a debate that he had personally invited Taylor Swift to Taiwan but she refused because of the geopolitical situation and this was the DPP’s fault. This week three elderly KMT fans were hospitalised after mistaking KMT-branded giveaway laundry pods for lollies. On Wednesday the husband of a candidate was live-streamed flipping off a constituent who shouted an insult at the campaign car the couple was touring in.

 

The candidates have spent weeks travelling around Taiwan, holding campaign events for hundreds of thousands of people in temples, schools and town squares. The leaders and other dignitaries are welcomed like rockstars.

 

The rallies are raucous. On the sidelines of a DPP event, unofficial vendors sell badges and keyrings declaring: “Heaven will destroy the CCP [Chinese Communist party],”, and “Taiwan independence”. In Chiayi, at a KMT rally, a woman in a sparkling pink curly wig and bedazzled sunglasses shouts joyfully into a TV camera. Onstage a group of young men perform a hip-hop dance about DPP corruption. Speakers deliver a laundry list of alleged DPP criminality and conspiracy theories. One supporter claims that Tsai “only eats British food” while Hou is a man of the people who enjoys Taiwanese fare.

 

DPP candidate Lai Ching-te is being pitched as Taiwan’s continuity candidate. Photograph: Sam Yeh/AFP/Getty Images

 

The KMT’s attempt to rebrand itself as the party of regular people rings hollow to many older voters. At a DPP rally in Keelung, a port city, an 83-year-old retired sailor named Mr Song tells the Guardian that he remembers seeing bodies floating in the harbour after the KMT violently suppressed an anti-government uprising in 1947. “It’s not easy for us to get where we are today,” Song says. “We have a good life, we have freedom.”

 

But people like Song are gradually being replaced by voters whose view of Taiwanese politics is focused on the present rather than the past.

 

‘Young people are drawn to revolution’

Freddy Lim wants to make Taiwan cool again. Sitting in his legislative office, the outgoing legislator and frontman for metal band Chthonic says the DPP is struggling to keep its younger voters, who now see it as the establishment.

 

“Young people are drawn to revolution, to being against the system,” says Lim, who was an independent legislator but recently joined the DPP. Lim says the party needs to rebrand and remind young people of its progressive achievements.

 

“There have been reforms that people will talk about for decades,” he says of the DPP era’s legalisation of same-sex marriage, transitional justice efforts, and other social reforms.

 

“Taiwan in Asia is a revolutionary country. It’s very rebellious,” he says.

 

Freddy Lim, a well-known Taiwanese politician and frontman for metal band Chthonic, believes the ruling DPP needs to rediscover its radical roots. Photograph: Helen Davidson/The Observer

 

“I think there’s a way that in Taiwan we can still make young people feel that we’re on the way, that we’re rebels, that we’re very cool.”

 

‘We are all afraid that Taiwan will become the next Hong Kong’

An unlikely magnet for the cool vote is the 64-year-old Ko Wen-je. Ko is the founder of the newcomer Taiwan People’s party, which he launched in 2019. Ko, a gaffe-prone former surgeon, is not cool in the traditional sense of the word. But he bills himself as a technocrat who can offer a “third way”, as well as fix issues such as wage growth and housing. It is a pitch that has particularly resonated with younger people, who seem unbothered by his lack of a clear stance on China.

 

“What Professor Ko says in public is more scientific and logical, and that convinced me,” says Augustine, a 21-one-year-old computer science student, who is using his first vote to cast a ballot for Ko.

 

Students learn how to use an airsoft gun from Taiwanese military instructors at Kaohsiung Municipal Sanmin senior high school in Kaohsiung as part of national defence education program. Photograph: Yasuyoshi Chiba/AFP/Getty Images

 

The unusual 2024 race has upended traditional expectations of Taiwanese voters, and candidates like Ko are pushing to flip long-held seats. In Jianshi, a KMT-loyal township in Taiwan’s mountainous north, 60-year-old Mrs Lin senses a change in the air. Lin lived in China for 20 years, but now she lives in a treehouse by the side of a mountain road, running a cafe and grocer for locals. She says there are fears the KMT will “sell out Taiwan” to China. “In our daily conversations … we are all afraid that Taiwan will become the next Hong Kong.”

 

Further down the mountain in Miaoli, a young legislator is also banking on the winds of change. Tseng Wen-hsueh’s campaign is up against history. In 73 years the county has never voted against the KMT, earning itself the nickname “Miaoli nation” for its party loyalty.

 

Tseng, who is running as an independent, has given dozens of speeches. “The ideals that we have in our hearts for our country and society cannot be achieved by just fighting on the outside or through opposition,” he says. “We have to take up those positions.”

 

Tseng Wen-hsueh, left, is running as an independent in a county that has always voted for the KMT. Photograph: Chi Hui Lin/The Observer

 

The potential makeup of the legislature is being closely watched by observers. There is a solid chance the DPP could win the presidency but lose its majority in the 113-seat chamber, introducing the possibility of political gridlock. At a DPP rally in Keelung, Lai compared the government to a car, with the president and vice-president as the drivers, and parliament as the engine. The DPP needs to control the engine to be powerful enough to promote national progress, he told supporters.

 

How will Beijing react?

Looming over all of this, and of primary interest to the rest of the world, is China. Beijing has weaponised military drills, economic coercion, cognitive warfare and diplomatic isolation to pressure Taiwan and its people to roll over without a fight and accept annexation. On Thursday, China’s Taiwan Affairs Office said it hoped the majority of Taiwanese recognised the “extreme danger” of Lai in potentially triggering a cross-strait confrontation.

 

The topic of China is both of deep concern for people in Taiwan and one that many are sick of talking about. In the years since the last election, China’s threats have grown more serious. Thousands of Taiwanese have signed up to civil defence groups, tech tycoons are funding local militia training, and there are signs of investors and dual citizens developing contingency plans.

 

If the KMT win on Saturday, Hou will have to balance his pledge to be friendlier to China with the will of a people who are far more suspicious of it than when the KMT last governed. Should the DPP win, a hostile reaction from China is all but guaranteed, the only question is what form it will take.

 

Some voters, like 50-year-old Ms He, agree with Hou’s characterisation of the election as “a choice between war and peace”. Others, like 57-year-old DPP supporter Mr Tsai, believe the KMT will send Taiwan down the same path as Hong Kong.

“The future of Taiwan is at stake in this election,” he says.

 

[singalion]

Looking at the lively election, Taiwan seems to be a good model for the future of the PRC and even here in Singapore.

 

The political parties don't suffer any restraints in their political campaign and voters have different options to choose.

 

 

Looking back I don't think Tsai Ing-wen 's term was a bad one for Taiwan.

[singalion]

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/commentary/2023/12/22/world/tsai-taiwan-free-world/

 

 

 

How Tsai Ing-wen aligned Taiwan with the free world

The island's outgoing president strengthened ties with the West and liberal democracies

Dec 22, 2023

 

 

During the Cold War, Taiwan was governed by a military dictatorship that masqueraded as “Free China” to shore up its anti-communist credentials and crucial American support.

 

Under the presidency of Tsai Ing-wen, a now-democratic Taiwan has re-imagined the old formula: “China” is downplayed given rising Taiwanese nationalism and antipathy towards the neighboring communist juggernaut, while the island’s liberalism is trumpeted alongside its prowess in semiconductor fabrication.

 

 

As the leader of the free world, the United States has pride of place in Tsai’s foreign policy for strategic reasons.

Yet her administration’s focus on the U.S. has not come at the expense of outreach to smaller liberal democracies that are more likely geopolitical bedfellows for the island. These include Lithuania, the Czech Republic and Estonia, all of which are wary of the ambitions of a revanchist Russia. Though these small Baltic states cannot offer Taiwan any significant economic or security benefits, their support has diplomatic value given that they are all members of the European Union.

 

By several measures, Tsai’s foreign policy has been a success. First, even though Beijing has picked off nine of the island’s erstwhile diplomatic allies during her presidency, Taiwan has a larger global voice than ever thanks to its closer ties with the West.

 

In the appointment of her confidante Hsiao Bi-khim to the post of top representative to the U.S. in July 2020, Tsai chose well. The current Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) vice presidential candidate excelled at cultivating American support during her three years as de facto ambassador. Her adroit navigation of Washington ensured that ties with Taiwan’s paramount partner remained steadfast despite the pandemic, a tumultuous change in administrations and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

 

Much media coverage of the U.S.-Taiwan relationship during Tsai’s presidency has focused on defense and how Washington is supposedly “arming Taiwan to the teeth.” But other elements of the bilateral relationship have arguably deepened in more consequential ways.

 

For instance, in the twilight of the Trump administration, then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo lifted the labyrinthine State Department restrictions on interactions between U.S. officials and their Taiwanese counterparts put in place to reassure Beijing that the U.S.-Taiwan relationship was “unofficial.” This move prompted an ecstatic tweet from Hsiao. "Decades of discrimination, removed. A huge day in our bilateral relationship. I will cherish every opportunity," she wrote on the platform now known as X.

 

In April 2021, the Biden administration responded to Pompeo’s move by issuing its own guidelines that allow U.S. and Taiwanese officials to meet more freely than in the past. These guidelines encourage working-level meetings with Taiwanese officials in federal buildings as well as at Taiwan’s representative office in the Twin Oaks estate. Previously, such meetings usually occurred in hotels because it was prohibited to hold them in the former locations. U.S. officials are also now permitted to attend some events at Twin Oaks.

 

The U.S. and Taiwan can now engage with each more directly even if their relationship remains unofficial. As China ramps up pressure on the island in its bid to compel unification, these improved communication channels will be a strategic asset for both Washington and Taipei.

 

At the same time, Tsai has leaned into Taiwan’s economic relationship with the U.S. as a key part of her strategy to reduce economic dependency on China. China (including Hong Kong) remains Taiwan’s top trading partner, accounting for about 39% of the island’s exports in 2022.

 

However, changes are afoot. Taipei and Washington are negotiating a bilateral trade deal that will both deepen their economic ties and likely open the door for similar agreements between Taiwan and other market democracies, while Taiwanese chipmaking juggernaut Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing has invested $40 billion in fabrication facilities in Arizona.

 

Analysts who criticize TSMC’s Arizona investment based solely on financial considerations — especially the U.S.’ high labor costs — miss the broader geopolitical point. As the largest company in the island’s paramount industry, which retains close ties to the central government, TSMC can be considered as a bellwether for Taiwanese industry — and Taiwanese industry no longer sees China as its future.

 

Subsequent TSMC investments in Japan and Germany, as well as a budding presence of Taiwan’s semiconductor industry in Central Europe, reinforce that paradigm shift.

 

On the less-advanced end of the manufacturing spectrum, Taiwan under Tsai has simultaneously ramped up its investments in Southeast Asia and South Asia. The so-called New Southbound Policy, which has revived a core economic policy of former Taiwanese President Lee Teng-hui (1988-2000), has borne fruit: Taiwan invested more than $2.1 billion in the aforementioned regions and Oceania in the first half of 2023 compared to about $1.9 billion in China, according to data compiled by its ministry of economic affairs.

 

Tsai’s economic focus on Southeast Asia and South Asia shows the practical side of her foreign policy calculus. She emphasizes democracy and human rights when engaging with the U.S. and Europe. Closer to home, she recognizes that few, if any of these countries, wants to join hands to champion liberal values or speak up for Taiwan diplomatically, but they see plenty of upside in economic engagement with Taipei.

 

The one area of Tsai’s foreign policy in which she has come up short is cross-strait relations. She will leave office in May 2024 with the cross-strait relationship at a nadir. From a security standpoint, Taiwan’s position vis-a-vis China has weakened significantly since she took office in 2016, with Chinese fighter jets and naval vessels operating ever closer and in ever greater numbers to the island. The possibility of intensified gray-zone coercion by China involving cyberattacks and/or disruption of shipping routes cannot be dismissed.

 

The deterioration in the cross-strait relationship can be primarily attributed to the imperious truculence of Chinese leader Xi Jinping, who insists Taiwan accept Hong Kong’s model of governance despite the erstwhile British crown colony’s rapid loss of autonomy under Beijing’s rule and the preference of the Taiwanese population for self-governance.

 

In her resistance of Chinese pressure and preference for close ties with the U.S., Tsai has made a strategic bet that Taiwan can weather the storm of poor cross-strait relations indefinitely provided it does not seek formal independence. She has bet that despite its own political travails, the U.S. will continue to uphold the rules-based order and that its deterrence of Chinese military adventurism will succeed.

 

During her final National Day address as president on Oct. 10, Tsai emphasized tension reduction in cross-strait relations. “Let me reiterate that peace is the only option across the Taiwan Strait,” she said. “Neither side can unilaterally change the status quo,” she added, in what seemed like a pledge not to seek independence.

 

The question now is to what extent Tsai’s foreign policy legacy will endure after Taiwan’s 2024 presidential election on Jan. 13. After all, her presidency saw much of her predecessor Ma Ying-jeou’s Beijing-friendly policies unwind.

 

It seems likely that Tsai’s legacy will be more profound. Incumbent Vice President and DPP presidential candidate Lai Ching-te has led in the polls all year — and he faces a fragmented opposition.

 

If he and Hsiao win, Taiwan’s voters will have decided they are in favor of even deeper alignment with the free world even if it means more-fraught relations with China.

 

 

 

 

[singalion]

Wow, the Taiwan election outcome is surprising but brilliant!

 

DPP's Lai claims victory in Taiwan presidential election
 

 

Taipei, Jan. 13 (CNA) Vice President Lai Ching-te (賴清德) of the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) declared victory in Taiwan's presidential race on Saturday, garnering an unprecedented third consecutive term for his party.

 

 

With 99 percent of the 17,795 polling stations reporting as of 8:40 p.m.

 

Saturday, Lai had 5,543,447 votes, or 40.1 percent, ahead of his two opponents, Hou Yu-ih (侯友宜) of the main opposition Kuomintang (KMT) and Ko Wen-je (柯文哲) of the smaller Taiwan People's Party (TPP), according to official Central Election Commission (CEC) vote counts.

 

 

Hou had 33.46 percent and Ko had 26.44 percent, the CEC figures showed.

[Steve5380]

2 hours ago, singalion said:

Wow, the Taiwan election outcome is surprising but brilliant!

 

DPP's Lai claims victory in Taiwan presidential election
 

 

Taipei, Jan. 13 (CNA) Vice President Lai Ching-te (賴清德) of the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) declared victory in Taiwan's presidential race on Saturday, garnering an unprecedented third consecutive term for his party.

 

 

With 99 percent of the 17,795 polling stations reporting as of 8:40 p.m.

 

Saturday, Lai had 5,543,447 votes, or 40.1 percent, ahead of his two opponents, Hou Yu-ih (侯友宜) of the main opposition Kuomintang (KMT) and Ko Wen-je (柯文哲) of the smaller Taiwan People's Party (TPP), according to official Central Election Commission (CEC) vote counts.

 

 

Hou had 33.46 percent and Ko had 26.44 percent, the CEC figures showed.

 

Why is DPP's victory surprising?  Maybe the Taiwanese also like democracy ?

 

To the China Experts:  are there in China any good over-the-counter antacids that could help with the current strong flare-up of Xi Jinping's stomach ulcer?

[singalion]

I have a feeling Xi Jinping is in hiding mode currently... 

 

Nothing went in China as promised, in the world he didn't achieve anything real, the youngsters in China fear being jobless or working at odd jobs below their expectations, the older generation fears their retirement funds have vanished with the insolvency of real estate companies, inflation etc... 

 

Xi Jinping has been seen much lesser the past months... 

 

It seems he wants to sit out the issues... 

 

 

Edited January 14 by singalion

[singalion]

10 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Why is DPP's victory surprising?  Maybe

 

Because the governing party never won a third consecutive term, but after 2 terms of one party the opposition won... 

But not this time. 

 

 

[Sweetie Pie]

10 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Why is DPP's victory surprising?  Maybe the Taiwanese also like democracy ?

 

Of all the former presidents of the DPP, William Lai had the lowest score of 40% as being anti-China. 

 

All pro-China presidential candidate received a combined 60% of the vote overall. This indicates that all Taiwanese people viewed Taiwan as part of China and desired good relations with mainland China.

 

In a nutshell, this election is a reminder or referendum that the majority of Taiwanese do not desire independence from China. In this regard, William Lai will face challenges as he did not gain more than 50% of the DPP seats in the legislature.    Most likely, he will expire just after first term as poor performing president. 

 

I am happy. 

 

 

Edited January 14 by Sweetie Pie

[PlayersGroup]

58 minutes ago, Sweetie Pie said:

Of all the former presidents of the DPP, William Lai had the lowest score of 40% as being anti-China. 

 

All pro-China presidential candidate received a combined 60% of the vote overall. This indicates that all Taiwanese people viewed Taiwan as part of China and desired good relations with mainland China.

 

In a nutshell, this election is a reminder or referendum that the majority of Taiwanese do not desire independence from China. In this regard, William Lai will face challenges as he did not gain more than 50% of the DPP seats in the legislature.    Most likely, he will expire just after first term as poor performing president. 

 

I am happy. 

 

 

I have a different reading of the Taiwanese sentiment, but of course you are entitled to yours.

 

The Taiwanese were able to exercise a democratic vote with collective wisdom, something Mainlanders cannot do and Taiwanese will no longer be able to do if they are under Communist control. 

 

1. They voted to pass the presidency to independent leaning DPP again for a third term, unprecedented in the history of Taiwan/ROC/China. Presidential powers are mainly in foreign policy and military. That says something.  

 

2. Candidate Ko's stance is not clear whether pro-unification or pro-independence and probably garnered votes from disgruntled DPP and KMT supporters. Disgruntled because DPP didn't go far enough when they had the majority? Disgruntled because KMT is just mired in its ineffectiveness and baggage and corruption?

 

3. The Taiwanese gave both KMT and DPP almost equal control of the legislature meaning somehow the parties need to work together to function. Legislature is for internal policy and laws. It is a reduced support for DPP meaning DPP has not performed as well on domestic issues. 

 

In summary: "We gave the most support to the DPP. We do not want to be threatened by China or be part of China, but if you fuck it up, you will not get my vote. Work on delivering your domestic promises." 

 

Edited January 14 by PlayersGroup

[singalion]

22 minutes ago, PlayersGroup said:

 

3. The Taiwanese gave both KMT and DPP almost equal control of the legislature meaning somehow the parties need to work together to function.

 

In my assumption DPP will work with Ko Wen-je, but I m not aware of the results in parliament, but if TPP won sufficient seats DPP might try to form a coalition. 

 

 

[PlayersGroup]

18 minutes ago, singalion said:

 

In my assumption DPP will work with Ko Wen-je, but I m not aware of the results in parliament, but if TPP won sufficient seats DPP might try to form a coalition. 

 

 KMT has one more seat than DPP. Independents and Ko's party got the rest.

[singalion]

1 hour ago, Sweetie Pie said:

Of all the former presidents of the DPP, William Lai had the lowest score of 40% as being anti-China. 

 

All pro-China presidential candidate received a combined 60% of the vote overall. This indicates that all Taiwanese people viewed Taiwan as part of China and desired good relations with mainland China.

 

In a nutshell, this election is a reminder or referendum that the majority of Taiwanese do not desire independence from China. In this regard, William Lai will face challenges as he did not gain more than 50% of the DPP seats in the legislature.    Most likely, he will expire just after first term as poor performing president. 

 

I am happy. 

 

 

 

Your post reflects your dissatisfaction with the results by turning the real results into some imaginatory dream that you wish to be true. 

 

One thing which is clear, Taiwan voted for freedom, democracy, free elections and against one party dictatorships. 

 

Also, your interpretation that the KMT is pro PRC is totally wrong. KMT might be acting for better ties and establishing  a "one China", but KMT never supported a one party governance system in case of any unification. Don't mislead please and read on KMT 's political program.

 

The Kuomintang advocates a free and democratic China under the Republic of China founded on Three Principles of the People.

 

Edited January 14 by singalion

[Sweetie Pie]

54 minutes ago, PlayersGroup said:

 

In summary: "We gave the most support to the DPP. We do not want to be threatened by China or be part of China, but if you fuck it up, you will not get my vote. Work on delivering your domestic promises." 

 

In Summary, the overall support for DPP is far from satisfactory.  People are already getting tired of this party.  

[singalion]

53 minutes ago, PlayersGroup said:

 

I have a different reading of the Taiwanese sentiment, but of course you are entitled to yours.

 

The Taiwanese were able to exercise a democratic vote with collective wisdom, something Mainlanders cannot do and Taiwanese will no longer be able to do if they are under Communist control. 

 

1. They voted to pass the presidency to independent leaning DPP again for a third term, unprecedented in the history of Taiwan/ROC/China. Presidential powers are mainly in foreign policy and military. That says something.  

 

2. Candidate Ko's stance is not clear whether pro-unification or pro-independence and probably garnered votes from disgruntled DPP and KMT supporters. Disgruntled because DPP didn't go far enough when they had the majority? Disgruntled because KMT is just mired in its ineffectiveness and baggage and corruption?

 

3. The Taiwanese gave both KMT and DPP almost equal control of the legislature meaning somehow the parties need to work together to function. Legislature is for internal policy and laws. It is a reduced support for DPP meaning DPP has not performed as well on domestic issues. 

 

In summary: "We gave the most support to the DPP. We do not want to be threatened by China or be part of China, but if you fuck it up, you will not get my vote. Work on delivering your domestic promises." 

 

 

I fully concur with your post. 

 

The youth and poorer segments weren't happy with DPP as they neglected affordable housing, living costs etc. 

 

This is where DPP will need to focus on. 

 

 

[singalion]

2 minutes ago, Sweetie Pie said:

In Summary, the overall support for DPP is far from satisfactory.  People are already getting tired of this party.  

 

But the exceptional third win contradicts this vastly. If people are tired of DPP why didn't KMT or TPP win a majority in the presidential election?

 

Lai should then have been defeated. But he wasn't. 

 

 

[Sweetie Pie]

12 minutes ago, singalion said:

 

But the exceptional third win contradicts this vastly. If people are tired of DPP why didn't KMT or TPP win a majority in the presidential election?

 

Lai should then have been defeated. But he wasn't. 

 

 

60% of pro-China supporters were undecided between the KMT and TPP on who could address domestic issues and enhance people's lives. Whereas blind emotion drove the anti-China, American PR Taiwanese to vote for the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) and disregard the widespread corruption that characterized Tsai's 8 years in office.     Although William Lai has to prove he can clean up the mess his predecessor left behind, I don't think he is that capable or that visionary.    Overall, this election shows the greatly divided island and I don't see DPP having resounding victory.  

 

Let's move on and continue to watch how the mighty has fallen flat and will fall even deeper with poor mandate to lead Taiwan into choppy sea across the Straits. 

Edited January 14 by Sweetie Pie

[PlayersGroup]

6 hours ago, Sweetie Pie said:

60% of pro-China supporters were undecided between the KMT and TPP on who could address domestic issues and enhance people's lives. Whereas blind emotion drove the anti-China, American PR Taiwanese to vote for the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) and disregard the widespread corruption that characterized Tsai's 8 years in office.     Although William Lai has to prove he can clean up the mess his predecessor left behind, I don't think he is that capable or that visionary.    Overall, this election shows the greatly divided island and I don't see DPP having resounding victory.  

 

Let's move on and continue to watch how the mighty has fallen flat and will fall even deeper with poor mandate to lead Taiwan into choppy sea across the Straits. 

 

At least Taiwanese have the means to vote out politicians  be it KMT or DPP. Taiwanese are voting for the system to keep running, however flawed, it's not about individual parties. 

 

Mainlanders cannot vote and the self-righteous netizens who are offended at every turn is a symptom of a society brought up by nationalistic propaganda and cannot see or access different information in a heavily controlled society to form diverse viewpoints.

 

That the mighty can fall is a good thing. People should be worried when might is right and the mighty cannot fall at all. 

[singalion]

8 hours ago, Sweetie Pie said:

60% of pro-China supporters were undecided between the KMT and TPP on who could address domestic issues and enhance people's lives. Whereas blind emotion drove the anti-China, American PR Taiwanese to vote for the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) and disregard the widespread corruption that characterized Tsai's 8 years in office.     Although William Lai has to prove he can clean up the mess his predecessor left behind, I don't think he is that capable or that visionary.    Overall, this election shows the greatly divided island and I don't see DPP having resounding victory.  

 

Let's move on and continue to watch how the mighty has fallen flat and will fall even deeper with poor mandate to lead Taiwan into choppy sea across the Straits. 

 

Can you stop misleading BW readers with your false statements. 

 

There are no 60 % pro China supporters in Taiwan. This is an invention by you. 

 

Being for closer ties with China is not "pro China" or intending to be under a Communist PRC rule. 

 

Both KMT and TPP opt and support the status quo of Taiwan and do not support for Taiwan being unified with China as long as the Communist Party governs the PRC under the current dictatorian system. 

 

It is false to categorise KMT and TPP voters as "pro China". 

 

 

Can you please stop from posting such clear falsities. 

 

Taiwan is not divided, this is another of your inventions. 

 

Latest polls say 50 - 60 % of Taiwanese would support the independence. 

 

 

Please stop from posting your imagined scenarios that do not cope with true facts!

 

 

Poll shows 48.9% support independence

Sep 02, 2023 Taipeh Times

 

A poll released by the Taiwanese Public Opinion Foundation yesterday showed 48.9 percent of Taiwanese support obtaining formal national independence, while 26.9 percent support maintaining the “status quo” and 11.8 percent support unification with China.

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2023/09/02/2003805648

 

 

=> There are no 60% pro China supporters in Taiwan! The latest elections don't evidence any such figures also!

 

 

 

 

Edited January 14 by singalion

[singalion]

8 hours ago, Sweetie Pie said:

Taiwanese to vote for the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) and disregard the widespread corruption that characterized Tsai's 8 years in office.     

 

The situation under Tsai was far better than under the predecessor KMT government. 

 

 

Corruption stains the KMT’s history

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2009/04/21/2003441653

 

 

 

[singalion]

Oh no! Could that mean the total collapse?

 

 

Evergrande collapse: Hong Kong court orders liquidation of China property giant

Judge says ‘enough is enough’ after developer, which has $300bn in debt, fails to provide convincing restructuring plan

 

Mon 29 Jan 2024

 

 

Embattled Chinese development company, Evergrande, has been ordered to liquidate by a Hong Kong court after an 18-month long hearing.

Evergrande, which holds the ignominious title of the world’s most indebted property developer with about $300bn in liabilities, failed to convince the court that it had a viable restructuring plan, after having been given seven extensions since court proceedings were first brought in June 2022. However it can still appeal.

 

Full article:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/29/evergrande-collapse-liquidation-china-debt-developer-property-giant

 

 

[Balestier]

2 minutes ago, singalion said:

Oh no! Could that mean the total collapse?

 

 

Evergrande collapse: Hong Kong court orders liquidation of China property giant

Judge says ‘enough is enough’ after developer, which has $300bn in debt, fails to provide convincing restructuring plan

 

Mon 29 Jan 2024

 

 

Embattled Chinese development company, Evergrande, has been ordered to liquidate by a Hong Kong court after an 18-month long hearing.

Evergrande, which holds the ignominious title of the world’s most indebted property developer with about $300bn in liabilities, failed to convince the court that it had a viable restructuring plan, after having been given seven extensions since court proceedings were first brought in June 2022. However it can still appeal.

 

Full article:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/29/evergrande-collapse-liquidation-china-debt-developer-property-giant

 

 

Hk has no juridisction powers over china. 

[Balestier]

On 1/14/2024 at 9:04 PM, singalion said:

 

The situation under Tsai was far better than under the predecessor KMT government. 

 

 

Corruption stains the KMT’s history

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2009/04/21/2003441653

 

 

 

Ya free trips to china is so obvious

[singalion]

25 minutes ago, Balestier said:

Hk has no juridisction powers over china. 

 

Quote:

Redmond Wong, chief China strategist at Saxo Markets, said the likelihood of Evergrande shareholders in Hong Kong getting anything out of the winding up process was “very low”.

 

“For overseas creditors, focus will be on if the liquidator will succeed in its applications for assistance to mainland courts in Shanghai, Shenzhen and Xiamen under the cooperation mechanism re-established in 2021 and get hold of assets in the mainland.”

Trading was halted in China Evergrande, China Evergrande New Energy Vehicle Group, and Evergrande Property Services, after the verdict.

 

It was unclear on Monday how the ruling would impact the industry and China’s struggling economy. Stevenson-Yang said much of the impact of Evergrande’s woes had already been felt after it defaulted in 2021. Since China’s central government tightened regulations in 2020, companies responsible for about 40% of Chinese home sales have defaulted. China is grappling with an underperforming economy, its worst property market in nine years and a stock market wallowing near five-year lows, and its government has been making intense interventions.

 

“This kind of desperation of the Chinese government to support the stock market, and now I hear they’re merging all these asset management companies into the [sovereign wealth fund, China Investment Corp], just really kind of hoping they can continue to kick the ball down the road,” she said.

 

It depends whether Xi Jinping prefers the company to fail within the PRC or trying to rescue it somehow. So far there wasn't much support from the central government on the failing property giants. One report some months back quoted that the amounts involved would just be too much to handle for the Chinese government.

 

Also, I m not sure how much Seniors in China have placed their retirement funds into Evergrande. This could also be an indication whether Xi will come for some form of support.

From my experience, the politicians are not scared to let such property giants go bust, because new greed for real estate fortunes will rise again, once the grey clouds passed through the region...

 

 

The situation taints the business prospects for China, as Evergrande is not the only troubled real estate operator there.

 

 

 

Edited January 29 by singalion

[Balestier]

7 minutes ago, singalion said:

 

Quote:

Redmond Wong, chief China strategist at Saxo Markets, said the likelihood of Evergrande shareholders in Hong Kong getting anything out of the winding up process was “very low”.

 

“For overseas creditors, focus will be on if the liquidator will succeed in its applications for assistance to mainland courts in Shanghai, Shenzhen and Xiamen under the cooperation mechanism re-established in 2021 and get hold of assets in the mainland.”

Trading was halted in China Evergrande, China Evergrande New Energy Vehicle Group, and Evergrande Property Services, after the verdict.

It was unclear on Monday how the ruling would impact the industry and China’s struggling economy. Stevenson-Yang said much of the impact of Evergrande’s woes had already been felt after it defaulted in 2021. Since China’s central government tightened regulations in 2020, companies responsible for about 40% of Chinese home sales have defaulted. China is grappling with an underperforming economy, its worst property market in nine years and a stock market wallowing near five-year lows, and its government has been making intense interventions.

“This kind of desperation of the Chinese government to support the stock market, and now I hear they’re merging all these asset management companies into the [sovereign wealth fund, China Investment Corp], just really kind of hoping they can continue to kick the ball down the road,” she said.

 

It depends whether Xi Jinping prefers the company to fail within the PRC or trying to rescue it somehow. So far there wasn't much support from the central government on the failing property giants. One report some months back quoted that the amounts involved would just be too much to handle for the Chinese government.

Also, I m not sure how much Seniors in China have placed their retirement funds into Evergrande. This could also be an indication whether Xi will come for some form of support.

From my experience, the politicians are not scared to let such property giants go bust, because new greed for real estate fortunes will rise again, once the grey clouds passed through the region...

 

The situation taints the business prospects for China, as Evergrande is not the only troubled real estate operator there.

 

 

 

There were some rounds of chinese banks extending loans support to the HQ. Maybe money didn't reach hk.

 

Not sure how many sovereign funds still having money in them

Edited January 29 by Balestier

[singalion]

10 minutes ago, Balestier said:

There were some rounds of chinese banks extending loans support to the HQ. Maybe money didn't reach hk.

 

Not sure how many sovereign funds still having money in them

 

Ok, yes. I missed that out last Friday.

 

China expands access to loans for property developers, acting to end its prolonged debt crisis

 

January 25, 2024

 

 

China has rolled out new rules meant to expand access to commercial bank loans for property developers as Beijing doubles down on its effort to end a prolonged crisis in the real estate industry.

 

The policies will allow real estate companies to use bank loans pledged against commercial properties such as offices and shopping malls to repay their other loans and bonds and to cover operating expenses. They were announced late Wednesday by the People’s Bank of China, the National Financial Regulatory Administration and the Finance Ministry.

Beijing has moved this week to stabilize ailing financial markets and boost the economy by freeing up more money for lending in various ways. That includes cutting required bank reserves.

 

The flurry of new measures and pronouncements from senior Communist Party officials about the need to stabilize financial markets and build confidence in the economy, the world's second largest, appears to reflect a renewed determination to get growth back on track.

 

The latest policies are not a full reversal of the effort to rein in debt and control risks in the property industry.

 

The new rules say the bank loans cannot be used to buy commercial housing or rental housing or to start new construction or buy land. Loans cannot exceed 70% of the appraised value of the property being used as collateral and should generally last a maximum of 10 years, with an absolute limit of 15 years.

 

They also order banks to fully conduct due diligence before and after loans are issued to mitigate and minimize risks.

 

It's unclear what impact the new rules might have on the overall crisis gripping the property market. Land sales have long been a major revenue source for local governments that now are grappling with mounting debts. At the same time, stalled construction of new homes has hit contractors and suppliers of construction materials and home furnishings.

 

In a research note, UBS economists said “the pace and potential size of such loans remain uncertain as banks will likely watch the commerciality and risks of such loans.”

 

 

 

Looking at the measures they seem more aimed at increasing the market sentiment instead of a real helping hand to bridge the real estate companies... aka as the politician said "build confidence".

 

It has to be seen if the measures are fruitful.

 

 

 

 

 

[Balestier]

3 minutes ago, singalion said:

 

Ok, yes. I missed that out last Friday.

 

China expands access to loans for property developers, acting to end its prolonged debt crisis

 

January 25, 2024

 

 

China has rolled out new rules meant to expand access to commercial bank loans for property developers as Beijing doubles down on its effort to end a prolonged crisis in the real estate industry.

 

The policies will allow real estate companies to use bank loans pledged against commercial properties such as offices and shopping malls to repay their other loans and bonds and to cover operating expenses. They were announced late Wednesday by the People’s Bank of China, the National Financial Regulatory Administration and the Finance Ministry.

Beijing has moved this week to stabilize ailing financial markets and boost the economy by freeing up more money for lending in various ways. That includes cutting required bank reserves.

 

The flurry of new measures and pronouncements from senior Communist Party officials about the need to stabilize financial markets and build confidence in the economy, the world's second largest, appears to reflect a renewed determination to get growth back on track.

 

The latest policies are not a full reversal of the effort to rein in debt and control risks in the property industry.

 

The new rules say the bank loans cannot be used to buy commercial housing or rental housing or to start new construction or buy land. Loans cannot exceed 70% of the appraised value of the property being used as collateral and should generally last a maximum of 10 years, with an absolute limit of 15 years.

 

They also order banks to fully conduct due diligence before and after loans are issued to mitigate and minimize risks.

 

It's unclear what impact the new rules might have on the overall crisis gripping the property market. Land sales have long been a major revenue source for local governments that now are grappling with mounting debts. At the same time, stalled construction of new homes has hit contractors and suppliers of construction materials and home furnishings.

 

In a research note, UBS economists said “the pace and potential size of such loans remain uncertain as banks will likely watch the commerciality and risks of such loans.”

 

 

 

Looking at the measures they seem more aimed at increasing the market sentiment instead of a real helping hand to bridge the real estate companies... aka as the politician said "build confidence".

 

It has to be seen if the measures are fruitful.

 

 

 

 

 

So not to worry. Emperor xi and team have planned out with HK at the back. 

[singalion]

Just now, Balestier said:

So not to worry. Emperor xi and team have planned out with HK at the back. 

 

Sure which means, the International investors will fall out from the Evergrande insolvency (Hong Kong) but the PRC Chinese shareholders will be supported.... 🤣

[Balestier]

8 minutes ago, singalion said:

 

Sure which means, the International investors will fall out from the Evergrande insolvency (Hong Kong) but the PRC Chinese shareholders will be supported.... 🤣

Emperor would not like a unrest in china. Who knows there might be a few white knights to salvage the properties in  HK

[Balestier]

12 minutes ago, singalion said:

 

Sure which means, the International investors will fall out from the Evergrande insolvency (Hong Kong) but the PRC Chinese shareholders will be supported.... 🤣

Money is never a issue with China.

Edited January 29 by Balestier

[singalion]

Here something for those who support and promote the CCP policies.

 

 

Actually, nowadays there is a huge danger in travelling into China for any foreigner.

 

 

Australian academic Yang Hengjun given suspended death sentence by Chinese court

Australia’s foreign minister said the government was ‘appalled’ by the sentence, which could mean life in prison for Yang

 

Mon 5 Feb 2024

 

Australian academic Yang Hengjun has been given a suspended death sentence by a Chinese court, after five years in detention on espionage charges.

 

Yang was arrested in 2019 at Guangzhou airport, accused of spying for an undisclosed foreign country. The 57-year-old pro-democracy blogger is an Australian citizen who was born in China. He was tried in a one-day, closed-door hearing in Beijing in May 2021, with a verdict not publicly disclosed.

 

Yang’s family was shocked and devastated by the court’s decision, with a spokesperson describing it as being at the “extreme end of worst expectations”.

 

Penny Wong, Australia’s foreign minister, said on Monday the government was “appalled by this decision”, and said it had called in the Chinese ambassador, Xiao Qian, to lodge Canberra’s objection “in the strongest terms”.

 

Wong said the Australian government had advocated for Yang “at every opportunity and at the highest levels”.

 

“Australia will not relent in our advocacy for justice for Dr Yang’s interests and wellbeing,” Wong said. “All Australians want to see Dr Yang reunited with his family.”

 

The sentence revealed on Monday is formally described as a death sentence with a two-year reprieve. It is a relatively common ruling that allows death sentences to be commuted to 25 years, or life in prison after two years of good behaviour. China is believed to be the world’s biggest user of the death penalty, but there is no publicly available data. China’s court system is notoriously opaque, with conviction rates above 99.9% and very few cases overturned for wrongful convictions.

 

Associate Prof Chongyi Feng, Yang’s PhD superviser in Australia and advocate for his case, said Yang’s sentence would be converted to life in prison. He said his former student’s sentence was an “outrageous political persecution”.

 

“Dr Yang did not commit any crime of espionage. He is [being] punished by the Chinese government for his criticism of human rights abuses in China and his advocacy for universal values such as human rights, democracy, and the rule of law.”

 

Wong told media there were still avenues of appeal, however Feng said Yang was already struggling with poor health. “Five years of arbitrary detention and torture have taken a heavy toll on his health. He is now critically ill.”

Full report:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/05/australian-academic-yang-hengjun-given-suspended-death-sentence-by-chinese-court-writer-wong

 

 

 

[Steve5380]

On 1/29/2024 at 2:32 AM, Balestier said:

Money is never a issue with China.

 

Even when it runs out of it ?

 

On 2/5/2024 at 12:42 AM, singalion said:

Here something for those who support and promote the CCP policies.

 

Actually, nowadays there is a huge danger in travelling into China for any foreigner.

Australian academic Yang Hengjun given suspended death sentence by Chinese court

Australia’s foreign minister said the government was ‘appalled’ by the sentence, which could mean life in prison for Yang

 

 

I would very much visit and travel throughout China.  But I will wait until the CCP is gone.  

[Balestier]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Even when it runs out of it ?

 

 

I would very much visit and travel throughout China.  But I will wait until the CCP is gone.  

Just print more money

[Steve5380]

4 hours ago, Balestier said:

Just print more money

 

Does China have so much paper?

[singalion]

7 hours ago, Balestier said:

Just print more money

 

But money printing will pull the currency value down.

 

Just take an example of Argentina in the 1990s. We all know how it ended.

 

All the past years China was looking to strengthen the RMB against more important currencies such as the Dollar or Euro.

 

These economic indicators are signs for China that the sharp way up is on hold. At least for the running year.

 

But I am not sure China will ever recover.

 

I also predict more social unrest. I just attended a seminar on the business outlook and the China data looked very bleak.

Youth unemployment is growing at a much faster pace than job creation. The numbers stood near 25% and guess what, now the CCP stopped publishing data on youth unemployment. The latter is very much an indicator that the situation will get even worse.

 

 

[Balestier]

6 minutes ago, singalion said:

 

But money printing will pull the currency value down.

 

Just take an example of Argentina in the 1990s. We all know how it ended.

 

All the past years China was looking to strengthen the RMB against more important currencies such as the Dollar or Euro.

 

These economic indicators are signs for China that the sharp way up is on hold. At least for the running year.

 

But I am not sure China will ever recover.

 

I also predict more social unrest. I just attended a seminar on the business outlook and the China data looked very bleak.

Youth unemployment is growing at a much faster pace than job creation. The numbers stood near 25% and guess what, now the CCP stopped publishing data on youth unemployment. The latter is very much an indicator that the situation will get even worse.

 

 

I saw a article that China had removedd school going children from their youth employment. Anyway their economic statistics are questionable and are not presented to international standards

[singalion]

5 minutes ago, Balestier said:

I saw a article that China had removedd school going children from their youth employment. Anyway their economic statistics are questionable and are not presented to international standards

 

Exactly!

 

In fact I never trusted any data from China, on GDP growth etc etc...