Is National Service (NS) a waste of time/free labour?

[sphere]

Chanced upon this article that mentioned the hot debate in reddit (here) recently - "The more I think about NS, the more angry I am..."

 

Maybe we could have our own BW discussion/debate on this matter too, haha.

 

 

‘Really lose out a lot’: Redditor calls NS ‘free labour’ for S’pore govt, demands better compensation

Redditor calls NS ‘free labour’ for Singapore government, demands higher compensation

A Reddit user has struck a chord with many after criticising National Service (NS) in Singapore, calling it “free labour” for the government and arguing that servicemen deserve significantly higher compensation.

 

In a post on the r/SingaporeRaw subreddit on 9 Feb, the user expressed frustration over what he sees as unfair treatment.

 

He pointed out that full-time national servicemen (NSFs) receive meagre allowances despite being on call 24/7, while their female and foreign male peers in Singapore advance in their careers, earn full salaries, or even complete PhDs by the time local men finish NS.

 

“I feel so bitter,” he lamented.

 

Proposes that soldiers receive S$3,000 per month

Arguing that NS is essentially unpaid labour, the Redditor called for a substantial pay increase.

 

Instead of the current S$600 monthly allowance, he proposed that soldiers should receive around S$3,000, factoring in their duties and overtime.

 

He also compared NSF wages to that of domestic workers, noting that even a helper earns around S$1,000 per month — on par with an officer-ranked full-time NSF.

Users agree, one calls NS ‘a waste of time’

Many users echoed his frustration, with comments expressing outrage over what they see as the unfairness of NS.

 

One user described NS as “a waste of time” and admitted that it “f***ing stings” feeling left behind while his female and foreign peers advanced in their careers.

 

 

Another pointed out that in competitive fields, foreigners often secure senior positions while Singaporean men are still fresh university graduates after completing NS.

 

Comparisons were also made to other countries with mandatory conscription, such as Taiwan, where conscripts earn NT$26,307 (approximately S$1,080) per month during their year of service.

 

Amid the frustration, one user stood out with a different perspective, admitting that he had carried the same resentment for years but ultimately found that “letting it go is the best thing”.

Changes to NS allowance over the years

Mandatory conscription in Singapore was introduced in 1967 with the NS (Amendment) Act, requiring Singaporean male youths to serve in NS.

 

The government saw it as the most effective way to build up the country’s defence force.

 

Since then, over a million people — including men, women, Permanent Residents, and new citizens — have served in NS.

 

In the past decade, NS allowances have been adjusted three times.

 

The most recent revision in July 2023 saw an increase of 10.9% to 21.7%, translating to a rise of S$125 to S$200, depending on rank and vocation.

 

As a result, an NSF now receives a monthly allowance of S$755, up from the previous S$630.

 

Additionally, allowances increase by 5% to 10% for every 12 months served within the same rank.

[source: here]

 

[singalion]

But some Foreign male peers need to do National Service in their respective countries also...

 

It is National Service...

 

Plenty of times from my recollection it is sitting around and doing nothing or waiting for instructions.

A few will have some higher responsibilities... but...

[cbm]

Not everyone's NS experience would be positive I guess. Mine was okay.

 

I got to do things I wouldn't normally be able to and met and made friends with people that wouldn't normally be in my social circles. 

 

Initially I didn't like going back for reservist training but the longer I worked in full time job, the more I looked forward to reservist training as a break from normal routine, which can get mundane. 

 

As for allowances, if they are going to raise it, the money has to come from somewhere, right? If raising NS allowances means I have to pay more taxes, then no. I don't want. I will become very bitter if I have to pay more taxes for higher allowances for current/future generation when my own NS allowance was a mere pittance back then. 

[doncoin]

When I was going through NS in the mid-90s, I felt then it was a completely waste of time, and I got very frustrated and felt stuck. Years later, looking back, I felt NS was a good experience for the most parts as frustrating as it was. I've come to appreciate some of the things NS distilled in me such as self-discipline, i.e. making my own bed, cleaning my apt, etc. The time spent also bonded me with a group of strangers whom otherwise we may have never met. 

 

I have come to realised the importance of NS for a tiny country Singapore. Like it or not, it is important to have our own defense system in place. It is not a job, hence you do not get a salary. Yes, it does often feels like a waste of time, but if you want to look at it that way, why demand for higher pay? 

 

More importantly, NS is an important time for gay guys. I fully waken to the fact that I am gay when i was in NS, and had my first gay experience during that time. So for what it's worth, it helped defined who i am now. 

[egal]

lol, the last part

[KeyboardCrusader]

  On 2/12/2025 at 4:38 PM, singalion said:

But some Foreign male peers need to do National Service in their respective countries also...

 

It is National Service...

 

Plenty of times from my recollection it is sitting around and doing nothing or waiting for instructions.

A few will have some higher responsibilities... but...

Expand  

WU NIA BOH?

YOU had NS liabilities and served?????

[Strange Fruit]

As a fellow 42-year-old with one of the redditors I too relate to the sentiment of “forgive and forget’ for the sake of not engulfing ourselves in bitterness. But on the other hand, that view shows how much of an emotional burden it can be for many... the fact ‘forgiveness’ is required is a sign of how the effect of NS on its male population may have more detrimental effect than its intended benefits at a national level. 
 

I’m not a nationalistic person by any means - I think Nationalism is a dangerous mindset that leads to the othering of people you don’t understand. I’m also quite a softie who found it hard to adapt to this world of superficial machismo, but I realise also how it did have a hand in toughening me up; the rituals one goes through. Like sleeping fitfully and unwashed for days, for three hours a night, in a shared basha, does set you up for whatever small privations one may have in terms of comfort in future. As a ‘potato’  I learnt to make friends with guys I avoided in my younger days out of snobbery or perceived class barriers. NS can be a great equaliser in that regard. Whenever I listen to some foreigners who have never had to endure even a short period of time of doing what they don’t want to do, it becomes clear how they can be extremely entitled and egotistic and with zero perspective for anything other than their own wants and desires. Many people need taking down a peg or two to make them better people, and NS does that. I just don’t think it requires 2 years (in my case two years four months - and the last four months involved an overseas exercise so that made a world of difference in terms of workload) 
 

My problem with it was how NS chose to utilise me and all the other men - it is very narrow in its wants and aims. I was in the army, and went through a couple of units and realised many regulars who were in charge did not want efficiency, rather the appearance of hard labour. Quite a few of the regulars had unideal lives outside of the army, they had extramarital affairs, drank heavily. They were generally moody and used their position to take it out on the men who were technically enslaved.to them. In no other field of work can you keep shouting at someone and not have them lash back at you and quit. I think such professions always attract the wrong people, but I suppose in war there is no room for sentiment. All governments want a human fighting machine. 
 

During the pandemic when it suddenly became apparent how much locals were dependent on foreign labour for all the things we take for granted will get done in Singapore, it occured to me that at this point NS should be diversified to really be a National Service, whereby conscripts can choose from a selection of jobs that can benefit the nation in a broader way - healthcare, construction and maintenance, food preparation. Make NS a form of apprenticeship to various vital trades (or even non-vital but frequently-needed ones; learning how to do fine masonry or tiling or parquetry for instance, for those so inclined, or finding apprentices for all the good Hawkers on whose shoulders our national food culture rests) Personally whenever I watch documentaries on the preservation of historic monuments and the specialised work it takes to do them, and the pride the locals feel in producing such work, it makes me wonder if we wouldn’t feel a greater sense of pride for our country if ourHDB flats were at least partly constructed by our own hands, or we understood a small part of how the MRT systems work. We would also be able to make use of these skills beyond our two-year period. It’s such an opportunity to move in the direction of self-sufficiency and all it is currently used for is to get young boys to run around aimlessly. Let’s be honest, at this point no one wants to wage war on us, we hold the wealth and property of all the richest people from every country and in the grand scheme of things we still are too small to be a threat. 

[singalion]

Yes I served my country's mandatory National Service!

[Why?]

I'm not sure.  In order to escape the bustle of the city, I viewed my two years of NS as a vacation.  Despite having a fairly low rank, I have my own office (with a small garden) in the camp where I planted some herbs.  Thus my NS life is not harsh because I happened to be at the right place, at the right time for the right job, and many regular officers, even some majors, felt I was indispensible since they needed me for a lot of crucial administrative tasks.   Many NS sergeants and staff sergeants are afraid to touch me for fear of inadvertently upsetting my superiors.  I was the only NS person seated among a dozen officers at every significant meeting, and I felt really safe.  Not a single of them ever exerted their authority or pull their rank on me,  they see me as an important part of their team and we joked regularly.

 

The only time I drag serving NS is when I have to go through ICT; I have to be sweaty and dirty because my vocation was changed to infantry.  My first two years of ICT were difficult, but after I was sent to a different unit in my third year of ICT, things improved because there were fewer strict officers and my campmates were generally mature, kind men who mostly admires me (I admit I was good looking). As a result, ICT has been my vocation every year since because I like being with people who suddently became fun to be around with .     Overall, my NS/ICT offers safe and interesting place to get away from stressful world outside once a year.   

 

Regarding pay, I concur that it is not high enough for those NS men with specific financial needs at home,  especially in a city that is considered to be the most expensive in the world. Many of them have taken up good pay job before they were called up to serve NS.   Since every male citizen is required to serve NS, this should not be used as excuse to keep allowance/salary low. At least I know that our politicians are unwilling to take a pay cut for their service to this country. 

 

In my case, I was having fun and so i take whatever amount of allowances given without thinking too much.

Edited February 14 by Why?

[HC-B]

Absolutely hated my 2.5 NS years, even though made a few friends.

 

But ICT was a different thing. 
 

The decade long cycle was one of the most enjoyable experiences I have had, in my opinion and perspective. 
 

I always looked forward to going back for ICT. Met up with the motley crew of ah bengs and ah sengs who have no problems or barriers in chatting and bantering with the “air” level and “tak chek kias”. 
 

We came from a very diverse and disparate spectrum of educational, economic, cultural, financial, orientation, occupational demographics — but we got along fine and well. 

In my cohort, we had a bus driver, a banking executive, construction workers, odd job labourers, a creative director, many civil servants, an insurance and financial agent, a lawyer, a few family run businessmen, a few company directors, an upholstery manufacturer, a high network banker, a few stock brokers, a metalworks specialist, an events company owner, a few IT specialists.

 

It’s a microcosm of Singapore society in a remote space for a yearly stretch of 2 to 2.5 weeks, and it was enriching, informative, even funny and downright hilarious at times.
 

And we always looked forward to our group chats. Just sitting around during our rest details and exchanging information and perspectives. Just to talk and verbalise thoughts, personal or otherwise. Connect with one another in spite of our different backgrounds and statuses.

 

Perhaps it was due to the fact that we have had life and corporate work experiences under our belts when we came back to ICT. Or perhaps we just craved their opportunity to mingle and bond and communicate.

 

We all had a ball heading back, and actually missed it when ultimately we had to be out processed into the reserve list.

 

That was a memorable and meaningful decade.

 

 

[sphere]

I suppose most of us would have felt the same, likewise for me - 'a waste of time' in NS when we were at it then, but looking back, it usually would not be that bad after all.

 

Like some of you mentioned, it actually allowed us to know people from all walks of life and of different backgrounds (like what @HC-B said above in his ICT), whether we became best of friends or not, we would appreciate the company and the chats that kind of bond us together during that period (or during ICT for some of you).

 

For me, apart from some of the points mentioned above, I thought it was also a good break from the 12 years of education (those in JC track), not counting kindergarten (or 13+ years for those in the Polytechnic track, other tracks, etc), as the time spent in NS, there was literally no 'paper examinations' and giving me that mental break from studying. Depending on your vocation, some might be able to learn new skills (such as getting a driving license) or even being trained in the leadership role, which we would otherwise not able to pick up with just studying.

 

There are definitely pros and cons about NS, but looking at the world around us now (and despite all our differences), personally, I think we need to defend our own country and NS is the way to go. As for the allowance (not sure if it is now known as "pay/salary"), as most meals, if not all meals, are provided and there are concessions for public transport, I think the amount given is still quite 'reasonable'? As @cbm mentioned, if increasing their allowance means we need to pay higher tax(es), I rather not then.

[purely personal opinion above eh]

 

Edited February 15 by sphere

[radiusulnar]

I look back upon it with nostalgia because that was when I was at my leanest.

[jcboy18]

this thread is so interesting to read as a pre-enlistee whos enlisting soon in april! i would love to hear some advice from those who hv gone through NS alrdy :)) honestly its kinda daunting to me because this year has so many new changes in life stages that i kinda feel unprepared for NS and other stuff in the near future

[sphere]

Opinion: Serving NS is inconvenient, but it’s still needed — and not just for national security

I was kind of a brat at 18, and NS helped me grow up.

By Jeremy Lee - 26 Feb 2025, 5:00 pm

 

A huge benefit of serving NS is building character

Earlier this month, a Singaporean man expressed his disdain for national service (NS) on Reddit, calling it unfair and “free labour”.

 

Having spent 2.5 years in NS myself — six months longer than it is now — I admit that I once shared similar sentiments.

 

However, with the benefit of hindsight, I’ve come to realise that those years weren’t a total write-off. In fact, they might have some valuable takeaways for the young men of today.

Source: Ministry of Defence, Singapore (MINDEF) on Facebook. For illustrative purposes only.

I’ve softened my stance on serving NS

Firstly, full disclosure here: I’m writing this from the perspective of someone who has put his NS days firmly behind him.

 

I’ve already had the pleasure of receiving the sacred letter from MINDEF notifying me of my discharge from all kinds of NS liabilities upon reaching statutory age.

 

Like any Singaporean guy would, I proudly proclaimed: “ROD loh!”

 

So if this means that I’ve somewhat softened my stance on NS in my dotage — well, damn right, I have.

National security isn’t the main benefit of serving NS

Most advocates for NS tend to point to national security, arguing that Singapore is small and needs citizens to step up to defend the nation.

 

While national security is undeniably crucial, I’ve come to believe that NS serves more as a deterrent than a shield.

 

The reality is, it would be a formidable challenge to withstand a full-scale military attack from a world superpower, particularly one with nuclear capabilities.

 

Source: Ministry of Defence, Singapore (MINDEF) on Facebook

 

So I think the main benefit of NS is actually something else entirely.

I was kind of a brat at 18

At 18, I wanted the same freedom my female peers had — the ability to jump into university life, or to travel and experience what the world had to offer.

 

The idea of being stuck in an army camp, wearing an uncomfortable uniform, having my movements restricted and taking part in exhausting and repetitive exercises while enduring orders from rude, shouty superiors didn’t appeal to me at all.

 

Looking back now, with the hindsight of old age, I’ve realised something that most don’t at that age: I was a bit of a brat.

 

I knew only people of the same race, religion and socioeconomic backgrounds.

 

I barely paid attention to my parents, let alone any other authority figures in my life.

 

The Internet was still in its infancy then and there was no social media, so I was absorbed in my own world of hobbies and interests, ignorant of most things beyond my bubble.

 

Considering how small and multicultural Singapore is, I now realise that this bubble wasn’t doing me any favours.

Serving NS was a character-building experience

NS mostly changed all that.

 

It exposed me to people from different races, religions, and socioeconomic backgrounds.

 

I had genuine connections — not just transactional interactions with taxi drivers or canteen operators, but real conversations.

Source: Basic Military Training Centre on Facebook. For illustrative purposes only.

 

It was my first taste of a world where no one coddles you or “gives chance” just because you’re young.

 

If not for that experience, I dare say my transition to adulthood would have been more difficult.

 

Sure, social media might have changed all that for youths today, giving them access to people around the world that I didn’t have at that age.

 

Still, I simply don’t think that’s the same as slogging it out with a group of strangers from all walks of life in the cauldron of NS.

 

The youths of today are very different from those 25 years ago, but I still see the need for them to grow up.

 

These days, I’m not sure if NS is still the character-building experience it once was.

 

But if it still is, then perhaps it could go some way towards making those two years worth it.

Enlistees’ time should be well-spent

The reason I said “go some way towards” is because it’s crucial to ensure enlistees’ time is well spent.

 

Those in combat vocations might have a hard time, but at least they gain skills that could be useful down the road.

 

On the other hand, those categorised as non-combat fit due to medical conditions might have a physically easier time in NS, but unfortunately, their two years often feel more or less wasted as clerks — a role that could easily be handled by civilian hires or technology.

 

Assigning servicemen to physically and/or mentally engaging roles tailored to their strengths would go a long way in convincing them that their time in NS isn’t being wasted.

 

Thankfully, MINDEF has reviewed the traditional Physical Employment Standards (PES) system to place a bigger focus on operational effectiveness.

Source: Ng Eng Hen on Facebook. For illustrative purposes only.

 

According to a factsheet released in 2023, it is optimising servicemen’s deployment by matching them to a broader range of operational roles based on their physical capabilities.

 

The SAF completed the redesign of 1,300 jobs in various vocations as of February 2023.

 

Hopefully, this means fewer servicemen are spending the best years of their lives in jobs that don’t suit them.

Much work still remains

That said, many of the concerns raised by disgruntled enlistees are valid, including issues related to allowances and the perceived disadvantage of competing with women and foreigners in the workplace.

 

While I don’t have all the answers, hopefully the powers that be are considering possible solutions to these issues — including exploring ways to involve women in NS in some capacity.

 

Only when Singaporeans are fully convinced of the need for NS will we be able to fully unlock the benefits of this uniquely Singaporean experience.

[source: here]

 

[sphere]

NSF allowance to increase by 4% to 5% for most Singapore servicemen

Full-time national servicemen will get S$35 to S$75 more in their monthly allowances.

Soldiers on a route march in Singapore. (Photo: Facebook/Basic Military Training Centre)

SINGAPORE: All full-time national servicemen (NSFs) in the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF), Singapore Police Force (SPF) and Singapore Civil Defence Force (SCDF) will receive an increment of S$35 to S$75 (US$26 to US$56) in their monthly allowances, starting from Jul 1.

 

This translates to an increase of about 4 to 5 per cent for most servicemen.

 

The allowance supports NSFs' personal upkeep and recognises their service, and is regularly reviewed to ensure it remains adequate, Senior Minister of State Heng Chee How said on Monday (Mar 3) during the Ministry of Defence's (MINDEF) Budget debate in parliament.

 

This will be the fourth adjustment to allowances over the last ten years, the ministry said separately.

 

The previous increase was in July 2023, when allowances were raised by S$125 to S$200, depending on the serviceman’s rank and vocation.

 

With the latest revision, an NSF holding the rank of recruit or trainee will receive an allowance of S$790, up from the current S$755.

 

For an SAF NSF naval diver, SPF NSF police tactical trooper or SCDF NSF firefighter holding the rank of corporal, the monthly allowance will increase to S$1,290 from S$1,250.

REDESIGNING ROLES

The SAF has also been reviewing its medical classification system to move away from a binary combat-fit or non-combat fit model.

 

Mr Heng first announced the shift during his ministry's budget debate in 2021.

 

"The new system will assess each serviceman on a more granular scale, allowing better characterisation of their medical fitness and functional capacity so that they can be better matched to more operationally effective roles," he said on Monday.

 

"This is a fundamental change that we are carefully studying and determining how to implement."

 

Over the past two years, the SAF has been conducting functional assessments for pre-enlistees with selected orthopaedic conditions, in addition to the standard medical screening.

 

Since 2022, about 300 pre-enlistees have undergone selected functional assessments and 230 - or two-thirds of them - were able to contribute more effectively over a wider range of roles, Mr Heng said.

 

The SAF has also continued to leverage technology and redesign jobs to expand servicemen's deployment opportunities.

 

Since 2021, it redesigned 2,000 roles across 25 vocations, such as combat medics, infantry carrier vehicle operators and military police.

 

More than 1,000 NSFs have also been deployed in a wider range of operational roles to date, MINDEF added.

CMPB TO OPEN PROGRESSIVELY

As part of improving the NS experience, the new Central Manpower Base (CMPB), located opposite Cashew MRT station, will progressively open in phases from May 2025.

 

Mr Heng previously announced the new facility during last year's Budget debate. It will replace the current one at Depot Road.

 

The new CMPB will serve as an integrated "one-stop" service centre for NS administration. This includes completing medical screenings, attending NS fitness activities at the all-weather fitness conditioning centre and purchasing NS necessities, said Mr Heng.

Illustration of the new Central Manpower Base in Bukit Gombak. (Image: MINDEF)

The new CMPB will also house the SAF's second regional health hub - with the first being at Kranji Camp III.

 

Spanning two levels, the CMPB hub will consolidate key healthcare facilities into one location, said Mr Heng.

 

"Today, a pre-enlistee with pre-existing medical conditions will have to visit multiple locations on different days for his medical classification test and specialist reviews.

 

"At the (regional health hub), which will come up at the new CMPB, this pre-enlistee will be able to complete his medical assessments in a single visit, with specialist appointments scheduled on the same day."

 

There will also be an improved queue management system to reduce waiting times, he added.

 

"By streamlining these medical processes, the hub is expected to serve around 200 servicemen daily, ensuring prompt and comprehensive healthcare support throughout their NS journey."

 

Meanwhile, the public can access exercise facilities at the new CMPB, such as an outdoor running path, fitness zone and football field.

 

The public can also enjoy amenities such as a childcare centre, a cafe and a food court.

 

 

MINDEF will also build a new SAFRA clubhouse - the largest yet - in the Bayshore area, with direct access to an MRT station.

 

"We plan for SAFRA Bayshore to be ready in a few years' time and to replace our oldest clubhouse at SAFRA Tampines, built in 1988,"  Senior Minister of State for Defence Zaqy Mohamad said.

 

SAFRA was formed in 1972 to improve camaraderie and boost morale among servicemen. At present, there are seven SAFRA clubhouses across Singapore that provide servicemen and their families with affordable recreational facilities and lifestyle offerings, Mr Zaqy added.

SUSTAINABLE SAF

Meanwhile, a solar farm will be built within Sembawang Air Base this year, to help to offset MINDEF's energy demands and as part of an effort to meet national targets under the Singapore Green Plan 2030.

 

The plan aims to advance Singapore's national agenda on sustainable development.

 

In 2021, MINDEF had committed to deploy more solar panels in SAF camps and bases, to achieve a target of 50 megawatt peak of solar capacity by 2025, equivalent to the annual electricity consumption of 13,000 four-room Housing Board flats.

 

The solar farm within Sembawang Air Base will generate energy equivalent to the electricity consumed by 4,700 four-room HDB flats in a year, said Mr Zaqy.

 

This will lead to cost savings of approximately S$1.9 million annually and bring the ministry closer to achieving its emissions reduction target for 2030, he added.

 

The location for the solar panels was "carefully selected" to ensure that SAF's operational effectiveness would not be affected, he said. This included detailed studies to ensure the glare from the panels would not pose a danger to military aircraft.

 

The panels will be installed on roughly 7ha of land as well as on rooftops of selected buildings within Sembawang Air Base. The energy generated will be channelled to Sembawang Air Base and the national grid, MINDEF said separately.

 

 

[article source: here]

 

[youdoyou]

I like how the redditor compared an NS allowance to what a domestic worker makes, and how it’s free labour, etc. It makes me wonder if this person, and others like him, extend that same empathy to domestic helpers who get paid very little and/or have no days off, and the people in construction and other jobs that locals don’t want to do.

 

That said, NS was something we had to do, so I did it. I learned a whole lot of things. Prior to the military, I was generally quite neat. But the regimentation, down to how my towel and even toothbrush had to be placed in my cupboard, tipped me over. I’m still neat, but with a little bit of organised chaos.

 

NS was my first proper brush with racism. And it didn’t come from people who were less educated than me: it was some of the JC kids. The nicest people were the ones who were from ITE.

 

But I do hate the military for taking

two plus years of my life, and then denying me a job because I’m gay. That, and the mess at the national stadium after an NDP event shredded what little patriotism I had for this country. Well then again, I can’t say I hate Singapore. It’s just made the relationship a lot much complex, for this and other reasons that are beyond the scope of this thread.

[bluelights]

It is a waste of time unless you have a well-to-do family to secure your job.  Otherwise, you are always short of 2 years of experience compared to peers at the same age.  While people at the same age are being considered for a team lead role, you are still a newbie.  These days, even though there are many young males employees in a team, it is not uncommon to see only one or two have NS obligations.  The only place where more males (younger ones) have NS obligation is public sector.  If you are born after 1990s, you can clearly see how it disadvantages you in the private sector especially when PR and citizenship are given out like free candies.  You need to be so much better and work so much harder just to catch up.

 

Cost of NS = S$4,000 x 24 months = S$96,000. This is just $$ losses. If you add the disruption to your job and the loss of experience, easily more than that S$100,000. Given how inflation / shrinkflation works these days, 2 years can make a hell lot of difference to the price of your HDB, food and travel. Just to be clear, this disadvantage has always been there, just that it is magnified for those born after 1990s. If only a minority is paying the NS tax, then it becomes a burden for this minority because companies will not change their processes for this group of people. Guess what? NS Men is not needed to fulfil the Citizen/PR quota.  Ladies and newly minted citizens and PR can meet the statistic requirement too.

 

I won't even into how NS affects you if you are interested to further your studies beyond the bachelor degree.    

[wanton_mee]

personally I was quite enjoying NS. Hahahaha. 

[sgbidaddy]

NS is a total waste of time for sure.

[GayNomad]

----

Edited April 4 by GayNomad

[wanton_mee]

  On 3/25/2025 at 12:12 AM, GayNomad said:

I enjoyed NS because that was the time I was able to walk around naked in the bunk, walk naked from bunk to showers, sleep naked etc. And people in the bunk were doing the same, yet not feeling gay about it.

Expand  

Yours was Naked Service 

[wanton_mee]

  On 3/19/2025 at 1:56 PM, bluelights said:

It is a waste of time unless you have a well-to-do family to secure your job.  Otherwise, you are always short of 2 years of experience compared to peers at the same age.  While people at the same age are being considered for a team lead role, you are still a newbie.  These days, even though there are many young males employees in a team, it is not uncommon to see only one or two have NS obligations.  The only place where more males (younger ones) have NS obligation is public sector.  If you are born after 1990s, you can clearly see how it disadvantages you in the private sector especially when PR and citizenship are given out like free candies.  You need to be so much better and work so much harder just to catch up.

 

Cost of NS = S$4,000 x 24 months = S$96,000. This is just $$ losses. If you add the disruption to your job and the loss of experience, easily more than that S$100,000. Given how inflation / shrinkflation works these days, 2 years can make a hell lot of difference to the price of your HDB, food and travel. Just to be clear, this disadvantage has always been there, just that it is magnified for those born after 1990s. If only a minority is paying the NS tax, then it becomes a burden for this minority because companies will not change their processes for this group of people. Guess what? NS Men is not needed to fulfil the Citizen/PR quota.  Ladies and newly minted citizens and PR can meet the statistic requirement too.

 

I won't even into how NS affects you if you are interested to further your studies beyond the bachelor degree.    

Expand  

Usually male Singaporean who has served ns their starting salary is higher. Whether is enough to cover the loss or not. 😁

[Why?]

  On 3/25/2025 at 12:12 AM, GayNomad said:

I enjoyed NS because that was the time I was able to walk around naked in the bunk, walk naked from bunk to showers, sleep naked etc. And people in the bunk were doing the same, yet not feeling gay about it.

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You think Camp is your Sauna issit?  Be careful, nowadays got many female regulars walking around in camp.  If you get caught, you might be heavily punished.

[GayNomad]

  On 3/28/2025 at 2:33 PM, Why? said:

You think Camp is your Sauna issit?  Be careful, nowadays got many female regulars walking around in camp.  If you get caught, you might be heavily punished.

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That was more than a decade ago

[Steve5380]

  On 2/26/2025 at 11:00 AM, sphere said:

 

A huge benefit of serving NS is building character

Earlier this month, a Singaporean man expressed his disdain for national service (NS) on Reddit, calling it unfair and “free labour”.

 

Having spent 2.5 years in NS myself — six months longer than it is now — I admit that I once shared similar sentiments.

 

However, with the benefit of hindsight, I’ve come to realise that those years weren’t a total write-off. In fact, they might have some valuable takeaways for the young men of today.

 

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I agree with you.  National Service in SG and elsewhere BUILDS CHARACTER.   And this can be very beneficial for gays like us.

 

For those who complain, they should realize that NS in Singapore is different than in Russia.  There, those serving don't lose any time to get to... the afterlife!

 

I did not serve in the NS of my native country Argentina because I was "the only son of a widow mother",  an item for exemption. I gained by dedicating that time to my university studies,  but there was some loss.  Fortunately, that "character" was built when I worked several years as a field engineer in oil fields throughout the country, middle in nowhere and without fixed hours. More than once I had to work over 48 hours straight... poor me! 

[Steve5380]

  On 3/24/2025 at 7:22 AM, sgbidaddy said:

NS is a total waste of time for sure.

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Isn't our life the total waste of time?  What is left of us after 120 years?

[sgbidaddy]

And I wonder why are you even alive n replying.

[qst]

  On 3/29/2025 at 2:45 PM, Steve5380 said:

National Service in SG and elsewhere BUILDS CHARACTER

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  On 3/29/2025 at 2:45 PM, Steve5380 said:

I did not serve in the NS of my native country Argentina because I was "the only son of a widow mother",  an item for exemption. I gained by dedicating that time to my university studies,  but there was some loss.  Fortunately, that "character" was built when I worked several years as a field engineer in oil fields throughout the country, middle in nowhere and without fixed hours. More than once I had to work over 48 hours straight... poor me! 

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I agree that NS builds character to a certain extent (given the right mindset), but many other things in life could have built this "character" as well (eg. your personal experience of building character in the university & the hardships that you have experienced in your career). In relation to individual liberties and free will, building "character" while being paid with market wages is wholly different from being subjected to mandatory military regimentation (and failure to serve = jail time).

 

NS in SG is almost like hazing -- "I have suffered in NS last time and so should you", and there is little to nothing that we could do to end this indentured servitude as the incentive for those in positions of power is to maintain the status quo. 

 

Therefore, it is my belief that the character training part should be deemed as a side-effect, rather than an argument for why we need to keep NS.

[jolterxtreme]

NS is good only if you sign a 5 years bond. 2+3 employment contract.

[Strange Fruit]

  On 3/11/2025 at 4:21 AM, youdoyou said:

That, and the mess at the national stadium after an NDP event shredded what little patriotism I had for this country.

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Hah, I was a carpark marshal for NDP, and manned one of the less important carparks at the National Stadium which meant that those who parked there would be delayed there for almost an hour after the parade while the more important cars left the stadium first to avoid a huge jam. The shift started at 4am for security reasons and ended after the parade was well over. We were briefed very little about the location of things regarding the parade as our only duty was to check the validity of the car park passes of those entering. My sense of patriotism went down massively that day as well as Singaporeans and expats brought out their ugly sides when they demanded to know where the big screen to watch the parade was, or where amenities were and I told them I did not know. Just before the parade ended, while fireworks were still exploding, as expected, many rushed out to the carpark hoping to be the first to get their cars out of the place before the rest of the crowd, and we had the task of firmly informing them that it was already explained in their ticket package that carparks would be vacated in a specific sequence, and not a single car could leave before the President’s cavalcade.  I don’t think I have ever taken so much verbal abuse from people in one day in my life before or since. 

[youdoyou]

  On 4/13/2025 at 2:31 AM, Strange Fruit said:

Hah, I was a carpark marshal for NDP, and manned one of the less important carparks at the National Stadium which meant that those who parked there would be delayed there for almost an hour after the parade while the more important cars left the stadium first to avoid a huge jam. The shift started at 4am for security reasons and ended after the parade was well over. We were briefed very little about the location of things regarding the parade as our only duty was to check the validity of the car park passes of those entering. My sense of patriotism went down massively that day as well as Singaporeans and expats brought out their ugly sides when they demanded to know where the big screen to watch the parade was, or where amenities were and I told them I did not know. Just before the parade ended, while fireworks were still exploding, as expected, many rushed out to the carpark hoping to be the first to get their cars out of the place before the rest of the crowd, and we had the task of firmly informing them that it was already explained in their ticket package that carparks would be vacated in a specific sequence, and not a single car could leave before the President’s cavalcade.  I don’t think I have ever taken so much verbal abuse from people in one day in my life before or since. 

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Geez, sorry to hear. I remember them telling us we’re “lower” in the hierarchy than civilians, which is perhaps why people behaved like this towards you. Then again, a lot of Singaporeans have an unnecessary sense of entitlement as well so they shove it wherever they can. To me, it speaks volumes about the kind of people they are and their upbringing. 

[Strange Fruit]

  On 4/13/2025 at 2:38 AM, youdoyou said:

Geez, sorry to hear. I remember them telling us we’re “lower” in the hierarchy than civilians, which is perhaps why people behaved like this towards you. Then again, a lot of Singaporeans have an unnecessary sense of entitlement as well so they shove it wherever they can. To me, it speaks volumes about the kind of people they are and their upbringing. 

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Well Singapore does seem to be one of those societies with that poisonous attitude of victims victimizing others in turn. We’re scared of those we perceive as superior - at work, in whatever measure of perceived status, our parents. So whenever we find ‘weaker’ people we take sadistic pleasure in  taking it out on them.

[youdoyou]

  On 4/13/2025 at 2:52 AM, Strange Fruit said:

Well Singapore does seem to be one of those societies with that poisonous attitude of victims victimizing others in turn. We’re scared of those we perceive as superior - at work, in whatever measure of perceived status, our parents. So whenever we find ‘weaker’ people we take sadistic pleasure in  taking it out on them.

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Quite unfortunate, really. But not how I was raised, fortunately. 

[AlvenSummer]

Hmmmmm NS a waste of time? Yes and No.

 

Yes. the deploying of NSF may not be fully utilised...maybe doing some unnecessary jobs that can be automated or digitalised..(guard duties, sentry duties etc). So, should be gainfully deployed so people who feel waste of time. Thats my thoughts while serving NS and ICT.

 

No. A bigger picture to be focused on despite our own perspective. Once upon a time I felt the same while going through the motion with my peers. As we grow when we step into the society, I start to realise that our economy and grow of our industry relies not just inwards, also heavily on investment from foreign MNC and investors. Without a strong defence pillar, will MNC and investor want to invest in SG?? Without them, our economy may shrink and we may not be where we are now. Unfortunately, we are unlike many countries that comes with natural resources. 

 

Then again, doesnt NS and ICT help us to broaden our perspective and networking?

 

No right no wrong. Just my 5 cent worth of perspective. 

Edited yesterday at 03:21 AM by AlvenSummer

[Why?]

  On 4/13/2025 at 3:18 AM, AlvenSummer said:

 Without a strong defence pillar, will MNC and investor want to invest in SG??

 

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It's politically correct on macro level.  Views may vary on individual level.   During my NS days, I worked in the administrative department; my supervisor and coworkers are primarily REGULAR.  I saw myself as a temporary entity for two years, after which another NS guy will take up my duty, in contrast to REGULAR  who worked genuinely and were nearly always on the ball on military matters.  Given the length of service, it is regarded as "forced" instead of "free labour".   However, it is up to each individual to fully utilize the two years of "break period" in order to upgrade, plan for future education, find a job, etc.; otherwise, it is a waste of time unless you intend to convert from NS to regular, as I observed my classmate doing due to army career stability.

  On 4/13/2025 at 3:18 AM, AlvenSummer said:

Then again, doesnt NS and ICT help us to broaden our perspective and networking?

 

 

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Broaden perspective? Not entirely.  Networking?  Probably so if  you are in the networking business with sales target in mind.  Otherwise,  friendship stays where it should be, in camp. Consider the fact that, once outside camp,  an MNC CEO is most unlikely to maintain  friendship with you as a...dishwasher?