City Harvest Church Discussion - Kong Hee & Sun Ho (Compiled)

[amkies]

What is this? Religious group becoming a business enterprise? Given this, it surprises me even further that City Harvest still holds the Institution of Public Character's status.

Adapted from The Sunday Times - 7 March 2010

Amid cheers from the congregation, City Harvest Church (CHC) yesterday announced that it will pay $310 million to become a co-owner of Suntec Singapore, a prime piece of downtown real estate.

Senior pastor Kong Hee broke the news first at CHC's service at its Jurong West building, then later at another service at the Singapore Expo in Changi.

He said CHC had acquired a 'substantial stake in a consortium company that owns 80 per cent of a joint venture fund that owns Suntec Singapore'.

The complex's full name is Suntec Singapore International Convention and Exhibition Centre.

The $310 million includes the cost of acquiring shares in the consortium, rental costs, renovation costs and others.

Suntec Singapore was acquired by ARA Asset Management through the ARA Harmony Fund last year, with its investors comprising Suntec Reit - which holds 20 per cent - and a consortium company which holds 80 per cent.

The latter is what CHC has bought a stake in. However, CHC said it was unable to reveal its current shareholdings due to conditions stated in the agreement.

The church has spent the past five years looking for a suitable plot of land, said Dr Kong, who founded it in 1989 as a small Bible study group of 20.

Suntec was its 26th attempt after other sites such as Lion City Hotel in Tanjong Katong and Iluma in Bras Basah Road were considered unsuitable due to their small size or likely traffic congestion.

Dr Kong revealed in January this year that CHC had secured a large complex in the 'central-south' district that also housed shops, restaurants and a 12,000-seat auditorium. Further details were unavailable then due to a non-disclosure agreement.

Yesterday, he told his congregation he had approached Suntec's new owners to explore the possibility of co-ownership in July last year, after an initial unsuccessful bid for the property in November 2008.

The option agreement was signed in six months, with the sale sealed on Feb 5.

The 33,000-strong megachurch is expected to move there by the second quarter of next year, after its lease at Singapore Expo expires. It will retain its Jurong West building for prayer services and Bible study.

Singaporean singer Sun Ho, who is married to Dr Kong, is also back this weekend - from Los Angeles, where she is currently based - for the celebrations.

The more than one million square feet of usable space in Suntec - equivalent to 25 soccer fields - would make it 20 times the size of the church's premises in Jurong West and 10 times the size of the hall it currently leases at Singapore Expo, Dr Kong said.

'This is a prime location with 78 years left in its lease. Right now we're paying $310 million, but how much is it going to be worth 30 years from now? I have to be a good steward...to maximise every dollar our members have given,' he said.

CHC told The Sunday Times it will be operating an 'ownership and lease' business model. This would allow the rent paid to Suntec Singapore to be recovered in the form of profits and dividends from space rental and tenant leases.

The church's plan is that its share of the profit from the business will eventually be able to cover the rent, and the financing will be self-sustaining.

With the opening of the Esplanade and Promenade MRT stations on the Circle Line next month, and together with the existing City Hall MRT station, members will have easier access to its services.

In a posting on the church website, Dr Kong wrote that the project 'allows us to move from a present expensive rental model to a more financially sustainable ownership model for the long term'.

He added that his present congregation is more than 14 times the capacity of its Jurong West building, which can accommodate only 2,300 people.

As to why the money was not spent on the poor and needy instead, Dr Kong said on the website that CHC spends 20 per cent of its annual budget on local community and overseas humanitarian work.

'With a facility to house the church's growing congregation and multifaceted ministries, we can serve the needs of the community in an even greater way.'

He said that while some areas will be used solely by CHC - such as the sixth and seventh storeys which will be used to house its 12,000-seater auditorium - other areas like the three ballrooms on the second floor and the exhibition halls will be open to the public for rental.

'But as co-owners of the entire convention centre, we have a share of the annual revenues of all facilities. Every time somebody rents a room there, we get a cut for the next 78 years,' he said.

The news coincided with the start of CHC's fund-raising drive that hopes to raise $17.3 million from this month to June, its fifth campaign in a series of 13. It has raised $99 million in its past four campaigns.

Knight Frank group managing director Danny Yeo said the acquisition was a good alternative to buying a plot of land.

'Existing plots of land offered by the Government are too small for the large auditorium that City Harvest is looking to build and it's even more difficult if you're looking for somewhere central.'

Similar plans were also announced in 2007 by New Creation Church, another large Christian group.

New Creation's business arm Rock Productions has teamed up with mall developer CapitaMalls Asia to build an 'integrated hub' in Buona Vista. When ready in 2012, the $1 billion project will house shops, a concert hall and a theatre.

[oralb]

I read a report and they predicted that religion will be one of the most money making enterprise in the next generation.

Interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist,_the_Movie

you can find the movie online.

[Guest Guest]

how much did they pay for their pastor?

who regulate the pastor pay? is it earn more pay more for pastor case?

[snowball]

I read a report and they predicted that religion will be one of the most money making enterprise in the next generation.

it is not new at all, need not have to predict afterall, don't we know that long?

i wonder people after inner peace or fake material, way too far from the teaching of GOD

frankly, if their fellowers willing to give, we should no complain & judge, it's their way to get close to " GOD / Belief "

Edited March 7, 2010 by snowball

[cock brand]

how much did they pay for their pastor?

who regulate the pastor pay? is it earn more pay more for pastor case?

Some Pastors are also very innovative people, they can cleverly design "packages" to pay themselves an obscene amount of money.

My link

A Senior Pastor of New Creation Church was paid about S$500,000 in commission for his fund raising effort in 2008.

While the donations collected were meant for some good cause, a large part also went into the pastor's pocket "officially".

Legal syphoning?

The "good cause" got deprived of a good $500,000!

[Guest hmmmmm]

恭喜发财 = "Kong Hee"发财 ??? 恭喜, 恭喜 .....

[amkies]

Best of all, it holds the registered charity status which means it is not taxed. Well-done. In form, it is a charity. In substance, can we still consider it to be a charity? I leave it for all to decide.

[applepie]

I read a report and they predicted that religion will be one of the most money making enterprise in the next generation.

Interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist,_the_Movie

you can find the movie online.

Perhaps its :

Wealth = Power

Power = Authority.

Once you have the Wealth, Power and Authority, you rule!

So the first thing first, make wealth, the others will follow.

[retri]

So will it be renamed as Sunho City?

[Guest Sunny]

So will it be renamed as Sunho City?

That's a good one.

Sunho City can host Sun Ho concert with a ready fan base. A formulae for pop stardom success..

[Guest mim]

New Creation's business arm Rock Productions has teamed up with mall developer CapitaMalls Asia to build an 'integrated hub' in Buona Vista. When ready in 2012, the $1 billion project will house shops, a concert hall and a theatre.

We already have two "Integrated Resorts". Now, coming soon a Church owned "Integrated Hub". The English Idioms used to say "as poor as a Church mouse" and now it has to be revised. The Church mouse is now a mickey mouse and the church a disneyland.

[happy.99]

he is turning religion into something that is for profit, which is VERY wrong.

[Guest Guest]

money will make a person turns bad.

if a pastor is drawing $1000 a mth, if he managed the church fund well and it becomes millions...sld he multiply his salary by million times?

why shld he? if he is contended, he will stick w 1k salary and use all the excess fund for good cause.

[Guest Gay Mall]

With City Harvest and New Creation combined. I wonder where will gay stand. When are we going to have a mega auditoriums this scale for gay activists. I think I better start one....anybody want to start donating into my accounts first...

[Guest cs]

From what I know, Pastor Kong Hee does not draw a salary from the City Harvest Church for quite some time liao.

And it's the love of money that make a person turn bad, not money per se.

I think City Harvest is open to gay la. They have speaker who was a gay, nearly went for op even. So can go check it out first. With a church that size, I'm sure there are some gays attending church there.

[slayer]

Listen to all those venomous spews of envy!

The church is self funded and they need to find ways to make money. Pure and simple. And in these times, it means to cleverly invest the funds they have to let it grow. This is how they need to sustain themselves. Stop being naive by thinking they only need donations to survive - that is a very boxed-in, one tracked and narrow thinking.

If you still think churches should be quiet, everyone's heads bowed in a quiet prayer sitting along lengthy benches in an old, traditional looking rectangle house with a tall steeple somewhere, you have not kept up with the times.

Clean your eye shit and see the light.

[Guest guest]

I like the SunHo City entry. Funny.

I think we have to accept that times have changed.

Having said that, I am appreciative of pastors I met while traveling in Taiwan. They were in the small towns. One own a old motorcycle. Another has a old car with mulfunctioning brake.

[Guest boy2man]

Mix the China wine with the dutty wine...

[Guest natas]

it is preaching materialism.

Be interesting if it turns into a Financial institution.

Wonder if the gamen is gonna regulate all these fund raising and their usages. Would have thought the funds are donated to help needful/useful causes and not as a means to be an economics powerhouse.

[cock brand]

Listen to all those venomous spews of envy!

The church is self funded and they need to find ways to make money. Pure and simple. And in these times, it means to cleverly invest the funds they have to let it grow. This is how they need to sustain themselves. Stop being naive by thinking they only need donations to survive - that is a very boxed-in, one tracked and narrow thinking.

If you still think churches should be quiet, everyone's heads bowed in a quiet prayer sitting along lengthy benches in an old, traditional looking rectangle house with a tall steeple somewhere, you have not kept up with the times.

Clean your eye shit and see the light.

Holy Cow!

Is this what is known as Capitalism?

Religion going into big business!

So now, Religion and Business, which is becoming the form and which one the substance?

[Guest Mr Principle]

Listen to all those venomous spews of envy!

The church is self funded and they need to find ways to make money.

<<Sure, and acquisition of a for-profit organisation is the way to go.>>

Pure and simple.

<<Who? You?>>

And in these times, it means to cleverly invest the funds they have to let it grow.

<<Sure, the only way to go is to acquire a for-profit organisation.>>

This is how they need to sustain themselves. Stop being naive by thinking they only need donations to survive - that is a very boxed-in, one tracked and narrow thinking.

If you still think churches should be quiet, everyone's heads bowed in a quiet prayer sitting along lengthy benches in an old, traditional looking rectangle house with a tall steeple somewhere, you have not kept up with the times.

<<No dear, even idiots can tell that churches these days are no longer the same as before. Gone are the days where churches operate as pure and simple religious groups. Now, they are have a stake in commercial world. Oh, but wait, why still call themselves charities and enjoy all the benefits that come along with that status?>>

Clean your eye shit and see the light.

First, Sun Ho.

Now, Kong Hee.

You sure love both of them a lot, don't you. We all know your true intention, Slayer.

[Guest aiyo]

time will tell......not long....few years?

a religious body turning into a commercial setup......funds from the followers??

where is the spiritual enlightenment?

[Guest surprised n shocked]

he is turning religion into something that is for profit, which is VERY wrong.

agreed...so many hardships around the world.....tot thy god needs to save the earth NOT making money???

only time will tell.....garment not looking into at the moment cos think some of the garment's pple are also in the for-profit body

sad.........

[slayer]

First, Sun Ho.

Now, Kong Hee.

You sure love both of them a lot, don't you. We all know your true intention, Slayer.

All I need for you and your minions to do, is get a grip on the reality and stop being so "Gasp! Oh this is wrong... Gasp! Oh this is not the way it should be..." like some tea sipping socialites wannabe.

The world is not a bed of roses.

And no I am not a fan of Kong Hee and Sun Ho. I have neither attended City Harvest nor have I even purchased one of her CDs.

[Guest Mr Principle]

All I need for you and your minions to do, is get a grip on the reality and stop being so "Gasp! Oh this is wrong... Gasp! Oh this is not the way it should be..." like some tea sipping socialites wannabe.

The world is not a bed of roses.

And no I am not a fan of Kong Hee and Sun Ho. I have neither attended City Harvest nor have I even purchased one of her CDs.

The world is of course not a bed of roses, dear. It is, however, full of people like you who are so willing to bend over backwards. All we need is more people like you to turn this world into a perfect hell where greed and corruption is acceptable.

[cock brand]

In the story of Exodus, Moses returned from Mt Sinai, saw his people worshipping a Golden Calf, he got very very angry.

Just wonder, what if Moses were to return now.

Of course he will not see any Golden Calf, but he'll see his people worshipping in multi-million mega complexes filled with multi-millionaire pastors and one even dancing half-naked, shaking her booty like mad in front of millions of eyeballs, wonder how he'll feel.

Perhaps one brave guy will walk up to him, hold his hands and say :

"The church is self funded and they need to find ways to make money. Pure and simple. And in these times, it means to cleverly invest the funds they have to let it grow. This is how they need to sustain themselves. Stop being naive by thinking they only need donations to survive - that is a very boxed-in, one tracked and narrow thinking.

If you still think churches should be quiet, everyone's heads bowed in a quiet prayer sitting along lengthy benches in an old, traditional looking rectangle house with a tall steeple somewhere, you have not kept up with the times.

Clean your eye shit and see the light."

[slayer]

Yes... Isn't this an interesting time? With you people as shining examples of morality and as such so capable to judge others... I am humbled.

Edited March 9, 2010 by slayer

[Guest Mr Principle]

Yes... Isn't this an interesting time? With you people as shining examples of morality and as such so capable to judge others... I am humbled.

Slayer, you are indeed a humble servant.

Slavery mindset.

[slayer]

Slayer, you are indeed a humble servant.

Slavery mindset.

Hahahaha... so sad you are...

[Guest Guest]

Slayer, you are indeed a humble servant.

Slavery mindset.

Nay, not even a servant ... a pariah dog more likely if u have been a reader of BW

Hahahhahaha

[cock brand]

Today's ST reported that the Commissioner of Charities is questioning City Harvest Church about its mega million stake in Suntec City.

A jointly issued reply by MCYS, URA and IRA in the ST Forum today also showed that compulsory statutory approval had not been obtained.

With so many people involved, looks like its going to be a long and winding road ahead.

[Guest Guest]

some ppl like Slayer is one who dont question authority. very obedient...

we must be aware not all churches are GOOD. as said, there are churches that teach the wrong things or worst, could be satan's devils in disguise.

[Guest andychub]

does anyone know if city harvest is anti gay or gay friendly? does it support the 377A or repeal?

[CamperBoy]

does anyone know if city harvest is anti gay or gay friendly? does it support the 377A or repeal?

read this

http://othersheepexecsiteblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/on-rev-kong-hee-of-singapore-mega.html

[WeiHan]

This is mind boggling. I just learnt that they are registered as charitable organisation and does not need to pay tax at all! How come the government allows this..it is really corruption if the government don't do something. How can they spend a small portion of their revenue in charitable work but most of it in party concert and then get themselves charitable org status and exempt themselves from tax?! And the government allows?!

And now, they can use the money to buy shares, do business, make profit and do not need to pay tax also. This is even more ridiculous!

[cock brand]

This is mind boggling. I just learnt that they are registered as charitable organisation and does not need to pay tax at all! How come the government allows this..it is really corruption if the government don't do something. How can they spend a small portion of their revenue in charitable work but most of it in party concert and then get themselves charitable org status and exempt themselves from tax?! And the government allows?!

And now, they can use the money to buy shares, do business, make profit and do not need to pay tax also. This is even more ridiculous!

Something more mind boggling for you!

Go look at their Financial Report http://www.chc.org.sg/eng/church/financial_stt.php

Staff Strength : 150

Payroll : S$9.2mil.

Surely there will be several junior admin staff and such getting paid the most $1,200pm, so look whos getting the bulk from the big fat payroll?

And this is only just a church!

Edited March 21, 2010 by cock brand

[WeiHan]

They are investigating whether CHC is eligible to buy shares of Suntec. But even if this issue is settled, there is another bigger issue. Why are they even a charitable organisation in the first place? I am quite sure the amount they have spend in charity is a small proportion of their revenue. What a nice way to evade tax.

[WeiHan]

Something more mind boggling for you!

Go look at their Financial Report http://www.chc.org.sg/eng/church/financial_stt.php

Staff Strength : 150

Payroll : S$9.2mil.

Surely there will be several junior admin staff and such getting paid about $1500pm, so look whos getting the bulk from the big fat payroll?

Yes...I agree this is mind boggling. I still remember some people are making an issue when Ming Yi paid himself $8k and his assistance $5 or $8k. But look at the figue above and nobody blink an eye? Maybe the government is thinking that they pay themselves even more.

[cock brand]

Yes...I agree this is mind boggling. I still remember some people are making an issue when Ming Yi paid himself $8k and his assistance $5 or $8k. But look at the figue above and nobody blink an eye? Maybe the government is thinking that they pay themselves even more.

Haha, take a look at another mind boggling item - Other Operating & Administration Expenses.

Between 07/2007 and 10/2009, in 26 months the "expenses" was S$18mil!

S$18 million!!

With the bulk of expenses - salary, rental, transport, publication etc all accounted for, what else need to be spend on and SO MUCH!

Really need to be enlighten!

[WeiHan]

Haha, take a look at another mind boggling item - Other Operating & Administration Expenses.

Between 07/2007 and 10/2009, in 26 months the "expenses" was S$18mil!

S$18 million!!

With the bulk of expenses - salary, rental, transport, publication etc all accounted for, what else need to be spend on and SO MUCH!

Really need to be enlighten!

And they have the chic to just place it in the book! Maybe...this is like the singapore government style, if you want to rob, rob in broad day light and makes it looks legal and normal.

[Guest happy sweet grapes]

sounds like a lot of sour grapes out there.

If you are not happy, it is the amount of money isn't it.

How big is big and how small is small . go figure

[WeiHan]

sounds like a lot of sour grapes out there.

If you are not happy, it is the amount of money isn't it.

How big is big and how small is small . go figure

The problem nowaday is that people have lost their sense of decency.

[cock brand]

The problem nowaday is that people have lost their sense of decency.

Yeah, sad isn't it?

Its gross indencency when people make use of religion and charity to enrich themself and commit hedious crime.

Look at the NKF saga.

Look at the Ming Yi case

Look at Youth Challenge and see what Vincent Lam had done?

Further away, now you even have the Pope apologising for the sexual abuse crime committed by paedophile priests.

Well, some managed to cover their tracks and got away unscathed.

Some may not be so lucky.

Father Joachim Kang from the St Teresa Church was jailed for misappropiation involving $millions.

I can laugh because my conscience is clear.

That joker can make fun cos he don't even know his problem.

And many suckers can be so happy stuffing money into other's pocket without knowing that they are suckers.

I can laugh because its not my money and I don't need this kind of money.

[WeiHan]

Yeah, sad isn't it?

Its gross indencency when people make use of religion and charity to enrich themself and commit hedious crime.

Look at the NKF saga.

Look at the Ming Yi case

Look at Youth Challenge and see what Vincent Lam had done?

Further away, now you even have the Pope apologising for the sexual abuse crime committed by paedophile priests.

Well, some managed to cover their tracks and got away unscathed.

Some may not be so lucky.

Father Joachim Kang from the St Teresa Church was jailed for misappropiation involving $millions.

I can laugh because my conscience is clear.

That joker can make fun cos he don't even know his problem.

And many suckers can be so happy stuffing money into other's pocket without knowing that they are suckers.

I can laugh because its not my money and I don't need this kind of money.

Oh...actually when I said that, I was refering to someone trying to defend indecency...seem that people no longer know how to differentiate good and evil.

And do not say that it don't affect you, when someone evade their tax, it means the IRA will have a decreased tax income and they will have to get it from somewhere and this will impact innocent individuals like you and me because the government is going to steal it from our pockets...and and all for for condoning those undeserving so-called charitable organisations (fundamentalist christian organisations in disguise).

[Guest sucker]

And many suckers can be so happy stuffing money into other's pocket without knowing that they are suckers.

But aren't we all suckers? The fact that we're in Singapore already made us all suckers. Or was it we don't have a choice.. hmmmm..

[Guest Fair]

Kong Hee just removed the blog after more and more people ask him to disclose the details of the transactions.

[Guest Guest]

I realized that there is a new kind of business nowadays, and it will sure to make big money out of this business. You just register your company in the name of "GOD". If you don't become a billionaire, at least you will become a millionaire.

[Guest Erotictales]

http://sg.yfittopostblog.com/2010/05/31/city-harvest-church-members-under-investigation/

Check this out guys.

[GachiMuchi]

City Harvest Church members under investigation

By Ion Danker – May 31st, 2010

Could this be the beginning of another NKF-like scandal?

The Office of the Commissioner of Charities (COC) and the Commercial Affairs Department (CAD) are investigating financial transactions involving several individuals and companies connected to Singapore’s City Harvest Church.

This came after the COC received complaints of misuse of church funds against City Harvest Church.

A joint statement issued Monday by the COC and police said CAD officers visited the offices of the individuals and the companies under investigation on Monday morning.

According to a Straits Times report, seven individuals were detained in a raid at 6.30am and by noon, 12 people were said to be assisting in investigations involving charges of falsification of accounts and criminal breach of trust.

The charges are said to be unrelated to previous investigations into City Harvest’s purchase of a S$310 million stake in Suntec City Convention Centre.

City Harvest members Yahoo! Singapore spoke to, however, are unperturbed by the ongoing investigations.

One of them, who wanted to be known as John, “I think its normal for big organisations to be ‘audited’. We will just have to wait and see what the outcome is from all this.”

Another member from the same church who preferred to remain anonymous thought otherwise.

“I think this is just another case of ‘cry wolf’, out to stir up trouble for Pastor Kong Hee, Sun and City Harvest,” she said.

The COC and CAD have given assurances that despite the ongoing investigations, services and religious activities of City Harvest Church will continue for its congregation.

[amkies]

It is amazing how some people can be so blinded by their religions that they choose to ignore the facts.