City Harvest Church Discussion - Kong Hee & Sun Ho (Compiled)

[cvbv1987]

LOL.

First it was denying you were a CHC member.

Then you admitted but quickly moved to accuse the "gay Buddhists" of having an agenda.

Now you're clutching at straws, accusing Sun Ho's critics of being a Christian who "needs to grow up big time".

This modus operandi is uncannily similar to the evasive diversionary tactics deployed by Josie Lau and her gang of bitches during the AWARE saga.

Do all Singaporean upper-middle class English-educated Christians behave like this?

ermm. i didn't deny it at any point of time. I just didn't blatantly say it out. and since when i said anything about the buddhist?

hmmm... i was saying grow up not in a christian context but in a human context, not to limit their minds.

The main point was, if you didn't get it, what has a worldly song gotta do with anything christian? UNCHRISTIAN LYRICS?

[Guest Gay Buddhist]

One look at the last paragraph and it's obvious that you are a gay Christian pretending to be a Buddhist.

There are some CHC churchgoers who are so unhappy about the fact that CHC is being discussed in BW, that they've resorted to mudslinging the "gay Buddhists" who they think are conspiring to defame CHC, and they've also complained to the moderator to intervene in this thread.

Grow up. Anyone in Blowing Wind is entitled to pose questions about the ongoing police investigations against the CHC board, Kong Hee and Sun Ho.

I am a Buddhist still groping and striving in the sea of samsara but here, you must insist that I 'm a xtian just because I am saying out things you and some pple here choose not to "like" to hear and esp becoz' I am Buddhist. You didn't read clearly..did I say anything against the investigations? I am all for the investigations to know the whole truth too, but strongly against attacking and general condemning of all pastors, Xtians, churches etc.. in these thread and mocking their belief or worship. So what if I visit many churches and have xtian frds, does that mean I’m no less a Buddhist? All I want to say is wait for the outcome of the investigation without resorting to any personal, pre-conceived prejudiced, judgemental attacks. I am never from CHC too. I never say you cannot post any questions at all., objective ones, not flaming ones.

[Guest Guest]

i have friends who were each asked to buy 20 sun ho CDs years ago. they were told like if you dun do so, you are not very christian, not supportive of church, blah blah blah... i wonder how many of the newer members were aware of this?

No wonder she managed to beat 5566 in the 2003 Hit Awards for Best Sales. Their Taiwan manager, Sun Te-rung, came out guns blazing, accusing Sun Ho of getting church help.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Lungker
Is this libellous if it cannot be proven?

[Lungker]

i have friends who were each asked to buy 20 sun ho CDs years ago. they were told like if you dun do so, you are not very christian, not supportive of church, blah blah blah... i wonder how many of the newer members were aware of this?

No wonder she managed to beat 5566 in the 2003 Hit Awards for Best Sales. Their Taiwan manager, Sun Te-rung, came out guns blazing, accusing Sun Ho of getting church help.

If cannot be verified or substantiated, it is going to the sin bin for your own protection.

Friendly warning to all. Read our posting guidelines. Understand what is libel. If your posting is libellous and an official request is made to us to provide your IP address, trust us we will comply immediately. All of you are responsible for your postings.

Be happy.

[Guest Guest]

If cannot be verified or substantiated, it is going to the sin bin for your own protection.

Friendly warning to all. Read our posting guidelines. Understand what is libel. If your posting is libellous and an official request is made to us to provide your IP address, trust us we will comply immediately. All of you are responsible for your postings.

Be happy.

http://stars.zaobao....5566100703.html

海外歌影视 5566抵制金曲奖风波

经理人致信歌迷说原委

钟雁龄 (2003-07-10)

　　5566台湾经理人之一乔杰立和经理人孙德荣写信来新向本地歌迷交代，说明5566不出席新加坡金曲奖原由。

5566台湾经理人之一乔杰立在信上说，若是5566是在公平的竞赛规则下输了比赛，他们也会诚心恭喜拿下年度销量冠军的专辑。

　　台湾人气组合5566不久前来新出席“英勇基金慈善演唱会”在记者会上突然爆出消息，说他们将退出9月举行的“新加坡金曲奖”，原因是他们觉得该奖项计票方式有欠公平。

让歌迷了解事实真相

　　5566经理人孙德荣和本地唱片公司音乐街（Music street）负责人当时向台湾媒体说，5566首张专辑“1st Album”在本地卖了5万张，将其他专辑远远抛在后头，理应有把握拿下“RIAS最畅销专辑奖”，然而后来却出现某位本地女歌手唱片销量突然激增，超越了他们1000张，令他们觉得不可思议。

　　5566后来也对台湾媒体透露，该新加坡女歌手就是何耀珊。

　　杯葛“新加坡金曲奖”的消息一出，自然引来5566歌迷一阵骚动，除了台湾媒体追踪报道外，台湾和本地歌迷们也针对此风波在网上议论纷纷。5566台湾经理人之一的乔杰立就写了一封信给本地歌迷及音乐街唱片公司，希望能让新加坡歌迷了解事实真相。

破5万销量是扎实记录

　　在该封题为“致新加坡5566fans的一封信”的传真信件中，乔杰立提到5566来新加坡出席英勇基金慈善演唱会前两个星期，就从新加坡音乐街唱片公司处得知，9月新加坡金曲奖中，5566应该可以拿下“年度最畅销专辑”、“最畅销组合”、“年度顶尖金曲”和“最受欢迎组合”等奖项，因为无论在实际销售量方面（继张学友《吻别》后唯一一张销售突破5万张记录专辑）或人气，5566在新加坡都无人能出其右。

　　乔杰立信中也提及，他们唯一担心的是何耀珊，因为她在新加坡拥有广大教友歌迷群，一旦发动起来，目前落后5566约8000张的差距还是有可能一下赶上来。不过，乔杰立认为5566至今破5万销售数字是扎实创造出来的记录而非异常交易所缔造的假象，因此深信5566销量不可能被打破，但他们来新后却发现专辑被超越了1000张，让他们大喊不可思议。

　　乔杰立说，他了解比赛总有输赢，但如果没有公平的规则，那独自靠两条腿比赛的参赛者无论如何也不可能跟开跑车的参赛者较劲。乔杰立也强调5566为回馈新加坡歌迷拥戴支持，因此半年内来新4次（孙协志来新5次），也积极参与了本地的多项慈善活动，热心程度连台湾歌迷都心里酸溜溜。他说，如果5566是在公平的竞赛规则下输了比赛，他们也会心服口服，并会诚心恭喜拿下年度销量冠军的专辑。

继续做好“2nd Album”

　　5566本地正式歌迷会“星乐园”主席叶耀伟说：“我觉得这样的比赛形式对5566有欠公平。”针对5566《MVP情人》主题曲《无所谓》和《我难过》无缘进入933龙虎榜一事，叶耀伟说：“我向唱片公司查过，他们说933指我们歌迷没有投票，但我们每星期都投了，而且还通过SMS和电话热线投选，结果《MVP情人》的歌曲却还是没机会上榜，其他歌曲就算上榜也是一下子就落榜了。”

　　叶耀伟希望乔杰立这封来函能够给予本地5566歌迷一个交代，而乔杰立在信中也强调，5566今年虽然不会出席新加坡金曲奖，但会再接再厉做好“2nd Album”，希望到时有机会再到新加坡来。

《联合早报》

（编辑：冯玉君）

[Lungker]

Thank you guest. This is what responsible factual posting, vs opinionated posting is all about.

Although I can't read Chinese, I am going to presume the link says it all.

Cheers and be happy.

[Guest Guest]

I wil not assess her based on her background as a pastor but purely as an entertainment artist.

My opinion... She's worse than Rebecca Black singing 'Friday'. At least Rebecca Black got mullions of YouTube views of her video n lots of publicity.

[cvbv1987]

http://stars.zaobao....5566100703.html

海外歌影视 5566抵制金曲奖风波

经理人致信歌迷说原委

钟雁龄 (2003-07-10)

　　5566台湾经理人之一乔杰立和经理人孙德荣写信来新向本地歌迷交代，说明5566不出席新加坡金曲奖原由。

5566台湾经理人之一乔杰立在信上说，若是5566是在公平的竞赛规则下输了比赛，他们也会诚心恭喜拿下年度销量冠军的专辑。

　　台湾人气组合5566不久前来新出席“英勇基金慈善演唱会”在记者会上突然爆出消息，说他们将退出9月举行的“新加坡金曲奖”，原因是他们觉得该奖项计票方式有欠公平。

让歌迷了解事实真相

　　5566经理人孙德荣和本地唱片公司音乐街（Music street）负责人当时向台湾媒体说，5566首张专辑“1st Album”在本地卖了5万张，将其他专辑远远抛在后头，理应有把握拿下“RIAS最畅销专辑奖”，然而后来却出现某位本地女歌手唱片销量突然激增，超越了他们1000张，令他们觉得不可思议。

　　5566后来也对台湾媒体透露，该新加坡女歌手就是何耀珊。

　　杯葛“新加坡金曲奖”的消息一出，自然引来5566歌迷一阵骚动，除了台湾媒体追踪报道外，台湾和本地歌迷们也针对此风波在网上议论纷纷。5566台湾经理人之一的乔杰立就写了一封信给本地歌迷及音乐街唱片公司，希望能让新加坡歌迷了解事实真相。

破5万销量是扎实记录

　　在该封题为“致新加坡5566fans的一封信”的传真信件中，乔杰立提到5566来新加坡出席英勇基金慈善演唱会前两个星期，就从新加坡音乐街唱片公司处得知，9月新加坡金曲奖中，5566应该可以拿下“年度最畅销专辑”、“最畅销组合”、“年度顶尖金曲”和“最受欢迎组合”等奖项，因为无论在实际销售量方面（继张学友《吻别》后唯一一张销售突破5万张记录专辑）或人气，5566在新加坡都无人能出其右。

　　乔杰立信中也提及，他们唯一担心的是何耀珊，因为她在新加坡拥有广大教友歌迷群，一旦发动起来，目前落后5566约8000张的差距还是有可能一下赶上来。不过，乔杰立认为5566至今破5万销售数字是扎实创造出来的记录而非异常交易所缔造的假象，因此深信5566销量不可能被打破，但他们来新后却发现专辑被超越了1000张，让他们大喊不可思议。

　　乔杰立说，他了解比赛总有输赢，但如果没有公平的规则，那独自靠两条腿比赛的参赛者无论如何也不可能跟开跑车的参赛者较劲。乔杰立也强调5566为回馈新加坡歌迷拥戴支持，因此半年内来新4次（孙协志来新5次），也积极参与了本地的多项慈善活动，热心程度连台湾歌迷都心里酸溜溜。他说，如果5566是在公平的竞赛规则下输了比赛，他们也会心服口服，并会诚心恭喜拿下年度销量冠军的专辑。

继续做好“2nd Album”

　　5566本地正式歌迷会“星乐园”主席叶耀伟说：“我觉得这样的比赛形式对5566有欠公平。”针对5566《MVP情人》主题曲《无所谓》和《我难过》无缘进入933龙虎榜一事，叶耀伟说：“我向唱片公司查过，他们说933指我们歌迷没有投票，但我们每星期都投了，而且还通过SMS和电话热线投选，结果《MVP情人》的歌曲却还是没机会上榜，其他歌曲就算上榜也是一下子就落榜了。”

　　叶耀伟希望乔杰立这封来函能够给予本地5566歌迷一个交代，而乔杰立在信中也强调，5566今年虽然不会出席新加坡金曲奖，但会再接再厉做好“2nd Album”，希望到时有机会再到新加坡来。

《联合早报》

（编辑：冯玉君）

what is this talking about?

[Guest Man U 2-0]

Don't be lazy. Use google translate.

[cvbv1987]

how does this article proves that people were forced into buying her record deal my dear GUEST?

there is no valid back up. Hearing from people and ASSUMIng things doesn't make you a very bright person,

not that i am saying you are dumb or anything but maybe investigate before you actually arrive at any conclusions.

I wil not assess her based on her background as a pastor but purely as an entertainment artist.

My opinion... She's worse than Rebecca Black singing 'Friday'. At least Rebecca Black got mullions of YouTube views of her video n lots of publicity.

and this reply made a lot more sense. It is good that you don't assess her based on her pastoral backgrounds.

It is sad that her music doesn't appeal to you. well, it is good to know that at least Rebecca Black has fans like you who has contributed to the MILLIONS of youtube videos. I should check on what kind of music you are listening to on your iPod.

and just because you don't like her music doesn't mean the whole WORLD out there hates it too. Currently where i am residing, people all over the world has heard her and enjoys her music. Once again, don't get the wrong idea that i m supporting my Pastor's wife. I am supporting a fellow singaporean women who has gone through the odds and broken into the global entertainment industry.

Thanks man. No hard feelings. Have a great day.

[Lungker]

how does this article proves that people were forced into buying her record deal my dear GUEST?

there is no valid back up. Hearing from people and ASSUMIng things doesn't make you a very bright person,

not that i am saying you are dumb or anything but maybe investigate before you actually arrive at any conclusions.

and this reply made a lot more sense. It is good that you don't assess her based on her pastoral backgrounds.

It is sad that her music doesn't appeal to you. well, it is good to know that at least Rebecca Black has fans like you who has contributed to the MILLIONS of youtube videos. I should check on what kind of music you are listening to on your iPod.

and just because you don't like her music doesn't mean the whole WORLD out there hates it too. Currently where i am residing, people all over the world has heard her and enjoys her music. Once again, don't get the wrong idea that i m supporting my Pastor's wife. I am supporting a fellow singaporean women who has gone through the odds and broken into the global entertainment industry.

Thanks man. No hard feelings. Have a great day.

Ever thought perhaps she became somewhat popular and famous not so much because of her talent but also a lot of money was pumped into her career?

Ever wonder just how much it cost to get grade A rappers to appear in her well shot videos? How about the extras, the chereographers, the videos, lighting and sound teams? I am guessing it cost a bomb and where exactly did the money come from?

I am guessing this will be one of the issue the government will be looking into in their investigation into the church finances.

We are all proud of ladies that made it good on the international stage like Stephanie Sun. Heck, I am even proud of Annabelle Chong.

For the record, Sun Ho had been releasing single and dance videos regularly since 2003 up till 2009. However since police investigation began, she had in all sense and purpose disappeared from the limelight. Why? Google her name and then news and absolutely nothing comes up. As if she she crawled into a cave.

If her show business finances are her own and separated from the church's, why did she stop performing and making slutty music videos and literally disappeared from the limelight?

People in the entertainment industry say there is no such thing as bad publicity. How and why she stop making those slutty dance videos is a great mystery. Heck, during her hay days, despite widespread criticisms from the public about how a pastor's wife can dress and perform that sort of way in her performances, her husband and the church people were all publicly supportive of her. Back then, even bad publicity was good publicity. More juice for the mega church to be in the limelight.

On October 11th, you said the probe had ended, followed by your claim that "it was only an ACCUSATION of misuse, NOT A CONFIRMATION!!! Get your facts right. "

This is a serious topic. We are talking about a mega church will hundreds of million of dollars at their disposal. And Singapore is a place where discussions on race and religions are closely monitored. Do not think the men in blue are not watching this site? Trust me they are. If we step out of line, we will have to close shop.

So now CBVB1987, I need you to back up your facts. How did you know the probe had ended? How do you know ( any links would be good, even hear-say from so and so might even suffice) that was no confirmation of misuse of church funds? Perhaps you heard it during a sermon from a church leader? Or a cell leader?

I am deadly seriousCBVB1987 . Back up your above statement with facts. Until you do so I will not allow you to post in this thread anymore.

And the same goes to those who want to post on this thread. Stick to the topic and REALLY understand the difference between an opinion that do not get you or us into trouble versus a statement of fact that you have to back up. If you do not understand, then you should really not post on this thread. Stick to those that discuss about anonymous sex and longings for lost affections.

[Guest Guest]

For the record, Sun Ho had been releasing single and dance videos regularly since 2003 up till 2009. However since police investigation began, she had in all sense and purpose disappeared from the limelight. Why? Google her name and then news and absolutely nothing comes up. As if she she crawled into a cave.

If her show business finances are her own and separated from the church's, why did she stop performing and making slutty music videos and literally disappeared from the limelight?

Wow Lungker, I'm impressed. You actually know the timeline when Sun Ho released those American dance singles!

Of her few singles, I only like Ends of the Earth (Solasso Radio Edit) and Gone (John Poppo Version). Don't really like China Wine or Fancy Free...

That said, she makes a controversial and compelling artiste, if not for all this church business.

[cvbv1987]

Ever thought perhaps she became somewhat popular and famous not so much because of her talent but also a lot of money was pumped into her career?

Ever wonder just how much it cost to get grade A rappers to appear in her well shot videos? How about the extras, the chereographers, the videos, lighting and sound teams? I am guessing it cost a bomb and where exactly did the money come from?

I am guessing this will be one of the issue the government will be looking into in their investigation into the church finances.

We are all proud of ladies that made it good on the international stage like Stephanie Sun. Heck, I am even proud of Annabelle Chong.

For the record, Sun Ho had been releasing single and dance videos regularly since 2003 up till 2009. However since police investigation began, she had in all sense and purpose disappeared from the limelight. Why? Google her name and then news and absolutely nothing comes up. As if she she crawled into a cave.

If her show business finances are her own and separated from the church's, why did she stop performing and making slutty music videos and literally disappeared from the limelight?

People in the entertainment industry say there is no such thing as bad publicity. How and why she stop making those slutty dance videos is a great mystery. Heck, during her hay days, despite widespread criticisms from the public about how a pastor's wife can dress and perform that sort of way in her performances, her husband and the church people were all publicly supportive of her. Back then, even bad publicity was good publicity. More juice for the mega church to be in the limelight.

On October 11th, you said the probe had ended, followed by your claim that "it was only an ACCUSATION of misuse, NOT A CONFIRMATION!!! Get your facts right. "

This is a serious topic. We are talking about a mega church will hundreds of million of dollars at their disposal. And Singapore is a place where discussions on race and religions are closely monitored. Do not think the men in blue are not watching this site? Trust me they are. If we step out of line, we will have to close shop.

So now CBVB1987, I need you to back up your facts. How did you know the probe had ended? How do you know ( any links would be good, even hear-say from so and so might even suffice) that was no confirmation of misuse of church funds? Perhaps you heard it during a sermon from a church leader? Or a cell leader?

I am deadly seriousCBVB1987 . Back up your above statement with facts. Until you do so I will not allow you to post in this thread anymore.

And the same goes to those who want to post on this thread. Stick to the topic and REALLY understand the difference between an opinion that do not get you or us into trouble versus a statement of fact that you have to back up. If you do not understand, then you should really not post on this thread. Stick to those that discuss about anonymous sex and longings for lost affections.

Hmmm.

Dear MODERATOR,

I am sorry that there are no definite back ups regarding the things i have mentioned on the 11th october 2011 available on any sources at the moment. I don't want to find any other source and CLAIM that it is backing my point like what some people i am doing. The truth shall come to light very soon. Thats all i can say.

and again, there is only an assumption that money was pumped in by the church without any definite backing up as well, don't you think you are being a little unfair by banning me in the basis of not having a back up for my statements when your back up is not actually really backing up as well?

Just for the record, I am not going against you Lungker. Don't get me wrong.

i just wanna invoke a thought into you.

Imagine, you are in a business and one day along the line, you and your family gets involved in some issues that some other family member throws against you and your family. and this whole ordeal has left your family in deep wounds. Will you be more interested in making your business work or will you be more interested in standing by your family when they actually need you the most.

I hope you are getting what i am trying to say. sometimes, it is really easy to stand out there and comment all you want on issues like these but try stepping into the shoes of those who are actually going through such a season.

Even if you choose not to understand, its ok cause there isn't a necessity for you. Thanks for reading if you still are. and if banning me is what will make you and the rest happy here, then by all means.

[Guest Guest]

I am sorry that there are no definite back ups regarding the things i have mentioned on the 11th october 2011 available on any sources at the moment. I don't want to find any other source and CLAIM that it is backing my point like what some people i am doing. The truth shall come to light very soon. Thats all i can say.

So you are UNABLE to support your claim on 11 October 2011 that the police probe has ended?

You can't even tell us whether it's a pastor, cell group leader and/or member in CHC (and his/her IC number) who told you that the police probe had ended?

Either you are lying that the police probe had ended, or you want to protect whoever it is who told you the police probe had ended (by not revealing your source).

[cvbv1987]

So you are UNABLE to support your claim on 11 October 2011 that the police probe has ended?

You can't even tell us whether it's a pastor, cell group leader and/or member in CHC (and his/her IC number) who told you that the police probe had ended?

Either you are lying that the police probe had ended, or you want to protect whoever it is who told you the police probe had ended (by not revealing your source).

There is no need for me to lie in this case and yes i prefer to protect. Let there be a "CLEAR CUT, ON YOUR FACE" article that comes really soon and the truth shall be known. I don't wanna use some article that doesn't even state anything substantial and use for my advantage like SOME people are doing.

and GUEST, I'm just wondering if you will recognize/know the name if i did tell you. PERHAPS, YOU WILL.

[Guest Guest]

Honestly n personally, I don have n issue with a Christian pastor n his wife promoting a morally degrading n worldy worshipping lifestyle in their music n videos.

My issue is (if) they do this with church members hard earned money.

So NO, I don think it's ok if they donate $9million of $10million dollars of members money to starving African countries but use the remaining $1million to promote a prostitute-like way of life to the world n live in luxury for themselves. N. O.

[Lungker]

"The truth shall come to light very soon. Thats all i can say"

That's all you can say? What about all those claims you made?

OK, it is clear CVBV1987 cannot provide or would not provide any basis for his claims. Lets treat his claims as unsubstantiated hear say, rumours, brain washing mumbo jumbo, sperm overload to the head or what have you.

Enough said about this topic. I am now locking this thread. I will unlock it when there are new reports about the investigation.

Now you guys can go back to the sex topics.

[Guest Guest]

To refresh our memory -

First off, the full story.

1. Rumours of financial impropriety concerning the church and it's pastor/s have been around for years. Some say as far back as 10 years ago.

2. The first public out roar about the church, arose in March 2010, when the church bought a $310 million stake in a commercial entity known as Suntec Convention Centre for its new church. Worse, it hid the details in a Non-Disclosure Agreement, when as a public charity and society, it has a duty of openness and accountability to its members.

3. This series of actions sparked a complaint by a member of the church to the Commissioner of Charities, asking why the church had committed its members to future liabilities, without the members' permission. This was because the church had not raised the full sum of $310 million at that point (only $65 million was raised).

4. The Senior Pastor and the church was questioned about this by the Commissioner himself. But no public answers were forthcoming.

5. Shortly after, on 31st May 2010, the Senior Pastor's home and office, together with 16 other associates of the church, was raided by the Singapore police (Commercial Affairs Department(CAD)) on the request of the Commissioner of Charities (COC). They were all hauled in for questioning at the police station.

6. The COC and CAD issued a joint statement that the Senior Pastor and his associates were being investigated for:

6.1 Misuse of church's funds

6.2 Falsification of Documents

6.3 Criminal Breach of Trust

7. The pastor's wife, Sun Ho, was then asked to return from LA for questioning by the CAD. At this time, the financial probe had increased to 20+ people including the Pastor's wife, as well as the deputy senior pastor of the church.

8. The church itself and the Senior Pastor and his wife, then sought legal representation from Senior Counsels in Singapore.

9. Shortly after this, the Senior Pastor was accused of plagiarising the works of 2 American authors and this was featured in the local newspapers. Plagiarism is a crime in Singapore. But the authors decided not to press charges on the pastor, as long as he did not continue to use their works.

10. News of Sun Ho's extravagant lifestyle in Hollywood hits Singapore. This amongst others include a USD28,000 a month rental in the posh Hollywood Hills mansion, 2 cars, maids/butler, personal entourage of dancers and choreographers, frequent travel, expensive clothes and makeovers, jewelleries, etc.

11. The Senior Pastor and his deputy was asked to step down as heads of the church and replaced by 2 executive pastors.

12. An independent auditing team was appointed to review the governance of the church as well as its internal controls.

13. Public debate in Singapore rages to a fever pitch, so much so that it has been declared the most Googled item in Singapore. This is the extent of the public outrage in Singapore.

13.1 Yahoo FTP - 8 threads and 30,000 posts

13.2 channelnewsasia forum - more than 5 threads and 10,000 comments

13.3 sammyboy forums

13.4 hardwarezone forum-80 threads and more 100,000 comments

13.5 irreligious blogpost

13.6 cheat grace blogpost

13.7 theonlinecitizen

13.8 the NEW temasek review

13.9 sg forums

13.10 sgclub forums

13.11 new republic asia blogpost

13.12 what i have against City harvest Church blogpost

13.13 why i left City Harvest Church blogpost

13.14 church warnings blogpost

13.15 Cash Harvest CULT blogposts

13.16 The Christian Post

13.17 trevvy forums

13.18 blowing wind forums

13.19 AsiaOne forums - more than 15 threads, more than 20 thousand comments, more than half million views, etc etc etc

14 Public discussions led to the following list of questions, which are culled from verifiable facts from the various discussions in Singapore.

14.1 Why did the CAD raid the Snr Pastor’s home, CHC Office and offices of associates of CHC on 31 May 2010?

14.2 Why did the CAD interrogate the Snr Pastor and his wife on multiple occasions?

14.3 Why did the Snr Pastor and his Dy Snr Pastor have to step down?

14.4. Why did the Snr Pastor pay $46.3 million to the Licensor for simply finding a new place of worship for CHC? Why was the Snr Pastor so generous to give Licensor such a big amount when the Suntec church will not be ready by March 2011 and the usage is non-exclusive and without a tenancy agreement?

14.5. Why did the CHC buy million of $ of unquoted bonds from Xtron, a company that has been losing money since it was formed?

14.6 Why did the Snr Pastor announce that CHC was “co-owner” and later clarified that the Church only is a minority shareholder of SCC? This was further clarified by ARA Group in the Chinese newspaper.

14.7 Why did the Snr Pastor pledge the Jurong Church in “the event of non-payment of rent, the creditors have a cause of action against the assets of CHC (i.e. our Jurong West St 91 Church Building)”? Isn’t this a violation of the Societies Act which does not permit society members to subject its members to adverse risk?

14.8 What is the impact of URA restrictions on the church usage of Suntec? Would the space be enough? If space is not enough, what sense is there to move at all? Also, if non-exclusive does it mean have to move out all equipment every Sunday? Where would the churchgoers go for their Bible classes, morning/evening prayer sessions etc etc as earlier planned for Suntec?

14.9 It has been clarified that Suntec Reit will eventually buy over Suntec Convention Centre in 2-3 years time. Why then did the Senior Pastor announced that the deal was self-sustaining, when it’s unlikely that future shares can be bought in Suntec Convention Centre?

14.10 Is it true that the Management Committee passed Resolutions to approve the Cultural Mandate and the acceptance of companies linked to CHC (e.g. Xtron and AMAC) as legal and valid? What is the meaning of all this? Does this mean that monies has passed through these companies and involved in matters not in the Building of God’s church?

14.11Is it true that the Senior Pastor and his mentor, Dr Kevin Dyson got their education and qualifications through degree mills i.e. unaccredited institutes of higher education as defined by the US Department of Education?

14.12 Is true that CHC has just 14,000+ members rather than 33,000 members as earlier declared by the church?

14. 13 It has been confirmed by newspaper reports and CHC website, that CHC raised $114+ million from 2005-2009. Why is then that there was only $64+ million in the AnB fund in 2009? What happened to the $50 million unaccounted for?

14.14 Is it true that when Sun Ho was offered the contract of USD5 million by Tonos Entertainment in 2005, Tonos Entertainment had already closed down in 1st Sep 2003? If it is true, then what contract was Sun Ho on, when she went to America?

14.15 Is it true that the Senior Pastor was paid director fees as the President/Chairman of the Management Board of CHC, when he specifically said that he does not collect any pay from the Church?

14.16 With the URA restrictions (no tenancy agreement), little or no possibility of further shares purchase and also not requiring major renovations (non-exclusive use) are we still talking about a $310 million Suntec deal or a sum which is much less? Shouldn’t this information be disseminated to the church if there are any updates? Is there anymore necessity to raise the further $245 million through A & B Fund raising for the next 8 years at an average of $31 million per fund-raising year?

Source: Click here

[GachiMuchi]

OK. This post have been locked because we will not discuss on religion or politics here in this forum.

Go to the source and discussed there.

Enough said.

[ntu_bw]

City Harvest church founder Kong Hee and four others from his ministry were arrested by the police on Tuesday morning, two years after investigations first began into the homegrown church.

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_815169.html

[Guest Guest]

The Ho has been arrested!!!!

[Guest bad tree gives bad fruit]

Saw this below somewhere on the net:

City Harvest church founder Kong Hee and 4 others arrested

City Harvest church founder Kong Hee and four others from his ministry were arrested by the police on Tuesday morning, two years after investigations first began into the homegrown church.

Mr Kong, deputy pastor Tan Ye Peng and three other church leaders were picked up by the police at their homes early on Tuesday morning and taken in for questioning over the alleged misuse of church funds as well as alleged breaches under charity laws.

All five are expected to be produced in court on Wednesday.

This latest development comes two years after the Commercial Affairs Department started a probe into the alleged misuse of church funds in May 2010.

http://www.straitsti...ory_815169.html

Breaking News from CNA:

5 members of City Harvest Church in Singapore, including its leader, Pastor Kong Hee, have been arrested and will be charged in court tomorrow.

They allegedly misused $24 mil of church funds for his wife, Sun Ho's music career under the pretext of investments in bonds.

[imchaser]

Oh dear. What about his dancing wife?

[Guest NCC]

Actually, only God can judge them. They should be freed.

[Guest I David]

Actually, only God can judge them. They should be freed.

You never know -- maybe the Engineer (the term used in movie "Prometheus") has in fact made the arrest to happen !

[Guest I David]

Oh dear. What about his dancing wife?

I believe she will not be dancing for a while.

[cvbv1987]

i think we should not speculate anything.

[TheVisitors]

Oh dear. What about his dancing wife?

They can dance together in prison.

[Guest Guest]

Really? Kong Hee Kong Hee 恭喜恭喜

[Guest Guest]

High time it happened.

[oralb]

https://www.facebook.com/notes/edmw-loves-singapore/inquiry-found-misconduct-and-mismanagement-in-the-city-harvest-church/321359041282582

Interesting read

"Based on the Charity’s financial statements for the financial year ended 31 October 2009, the Charity’s income amounted to about $72 million whilst expenses amounted to about $48 million. Its net assets are estimated at $103 million. "

[Anderson]

i think we should not speculate anything.

Ha ha, another ignorant or even blind supporter.

Nothing more to speculate, face the facts dear!

They were all first brought in for questioning last year and now, after so many months of investigation are finally formally arrested and charged.

You think the CAD are so dumb, furthermore, anything actions on religion matters requires cleareance from MHA?

Edited June 26, 2012 by Anderson

[Guest NCC]

i think we should not speculate anything.

I agree. They are good people of the faith. They can't do any wrong.

[stylishvicky]

To think that I have gave them my pocket money few years back to fund his wife in US makes me feel damn stupid and cheated >.<

Edited June 26, 2012 by stylishvicky

[trxsuspension]

im glad i left that church after attending a few sunday services. i just dont feel right there. thank lord.

[Guest Guest]

ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF THE COMMISSIONER OF CHARITIES

Inquiry found misconduct and mismanagement in the City Harvest Church

Background

The City Harvest Church is a registered charity since 1993. As at December 2009, the Charity had a congregation size of about 33,000 people. The congregation comprised approximately 728 Executive Members with voting powers, whilst the remaining are Ministry and Ordinary Members.

Based on the Charity’s financial statements for the financial year ended 31 October 2009, the Charity’s income amounted to about $72 million whilst expenses amounted to about $48 million. Its net assets are estimated at $103 million.

In early 2010, the COC received complaints alleging the misuse of the Charity’s funds and informed the CAD, when it assessed that some of these financial transactions may need to be investigated by the CAD.

On 31 May 2010, the COC and the CAD commenced investigations into financial transactions involving several individuals and companies, related to or connected to the Charity. Separately, the COC has decided to take action under the Charities Act.

(A) Misrepresentation on the Use of the Charity’s Funds

In 2002, the Charity’s founders, Kong Hee and Ho Yeow Sun (“Sun Ho”), embarked on a “Crossover Project” [“the Project”], with the purported intention to use Sun Ho’s secular music to connect with people and reach out to non-Christians.

In 2003, an individual alleged in the media that the Charity was funding Sun Ho’s music career. This attracted public attention. This individual eventually issued a public apology and retracted his allegations. During that period, the Charity had faced media scrutiny over the allegations. Subsequently, the Charity issued press statements and made several representations to its members to state that they had not funded Sun Ho’s music career.

Despite the representations made by the Charity and unknown to the Executive Members, the Charity’s funds were used to fund the Project. Over a period of 3 years (2007 to 2010), at least $23 million was used. However, during this period of time, the Executive members were not told of the actual purpose of the use of these funds.

(B) Use of the Charity’s Funds to Fund the Project

Between December 2007 and May 2010, the Charity’s funds were used to finance the Project under the guise of donations to its affiliated church in Kuala Lumpur, known as the City Harvest Church Kuala Lumpur [“CHCKL”]. The funds were then transmitted by CHCKL to support the Project in the United States. During this period, at least $2.1 million was transferred from the Charity to CHCKL to fund the Project. The Inquiry revealed that Kong Hee, Tan Ye Peng, Kelvin Teo Meng How, Tan Shao Yuen Sharon and Serina Wee Gek Yin were aware of the true purpose of the donations to CHCKL.

In addition, donations and tithes to the Charity were transferred into a private fund known as the Multi-Purpose Account [“MPA”], administered by Serina Wee Gek Yin (the Charity’s ex-Finance Manager and Executive member) and Tan Su Pheng Jacqueline (former Personal Assistant to Kong Hee, current contract staff and Executive member of the Charity). Monies in this account were used to fund the Project. For the period April 2007 to March 2010, the funds were used for purported expenditures of Kong Hee and Sun Ho, amounting to approximately $600,000 and $3 million respectively. Selected donors were asked to transfer their contributions originally meant for the Charity’s “Arise and Build” campaign to the MPA. Some members ceased or reduced their regular tithes to the Charity after they contributed funds to the MPA. Apart from this small group of members, the existence of the MPA was not made known to the Charity’s members. There was even an attempt to conceal the existence of this Account by closing the joint bank account and dealing only in cash transactions, which was kept in a safe at the Charity.

In or around April 2009, a plan was conceptualised by Tan Ye Peng, Chew Eng Han, Serina Wee Gek Yin and Tan Shao Yuen Sharon to transfer monies amounting to $600,000 donated by Wahju Hanafi to the Charity’s Building Fund via a “refund” of Building Fund donations into the MPA to meet some funding needs of the Project, which included US$100,000 to finance a media team from Singapore to publicise and write about Sun Ho’s music career in the United States. Inquiry revealed that the Charity had drafted letters from Wahju Hanafi and one other person indicating that their donations to the Charity were intended for specific Pastors and employees of the Charity as love gifts. It was then arranged for these said Pastors and employees to receive the “refund” as love gifts and immediately thereafter to deposit these love gifts into the MPA. The Inquiry further revealed evidence which strongly suggests that the “refund” letters were backdated, i.e. the letters were dated close to or on the date of the donations and one of the letters was dated before the date of the donations.

© Schemes to Avoid Disclosure on Related Party Transactions

Between 2006 and 2008, Kong Hee’s company sold over $3 million worth of merchandise to the Charity. The Inquiry also revealed that Kong Hee did not disclose his interests in these related party transactions in the Charity’s financial statements. In 2008, Kong Hee “refunded” royalties to the Charity amounting to approximately $770,000 from the sale of his merchandise to the Charity from 2006 to 2008. The return of these royalties was ostensibly motivated by concerns that the Charity’s auditors would require Kong Hee’s royalties to be disclosed as related party transactions. The amount “refunded” by Kong Hee was concealed as “sales discount” given to the Charity. Subsequently, the purported refunds were reimbursed to Kong Hee from the MPA and from CHCKL. Kong Hee’s “refund” of royalties to the Charity was therefore cosmetic and he was instead never “out of pocket”. The Inquiry revealed that the individuals who were aware of the above avoidance in disclosure were Kong Hee, Tan Ye Peng, Kelvin Teo Meng How, Tan Shao Yuen Sharon, Serina Wee Gek Yin and Tan Su Pheng Jacqueline.

(D) Governance and Control Issues

Evidence suggested that certain members of the Charity’s Board have been less than prudent in the discharge of their duties toward the Charity and its members. For example, the appointment of Investment Manager, Chew Eng Han’s investment company, was not properly tabled and discussed by the Charity’s Board.

The Inquiry further revealed that when Chew Eng Han suffered financial difficulties, the Charity refunded donations amounting to about $338,000 to him in two separate tranches, i.e. $240,000 and $98,000. However, in respect of the $98,000, the Charity’s Board only gave approval for the refund of donations to Chew Eng Han 9 months after the refunds were made.

The poor corporate governance in the Charity contributed, at least in part, to the fact that the Charity was able to maintain the above-mentioned activities for the past 3 years.

The Commissioner of Charities (COC) instituted an Inquiry into the City Harvest Church (the Charity) on 31 May 2010 under the Charities Act. Concurrently, the Commercial Affairs Department (CAD) commenced investigations into financial transactions involving several individuals and companies, related or connected to the Charity. Both the COC and CAD have since concluded its Inquiry and investigations, respectively. Separately and independently from CAD, COC has decided to take action under the Charities Act.

COC’s Inquiry revealed misconduct and mismanagement in the administration of the Charity, particularly in relation to the funds that were in the Building Fund which had been raised and earmarked for specific purposes. Financial irregularities of at least $23 million from the Charity’s funds have been discovered. These funds were used with the purported intention to finance Ho Yeow Sun’s secular music career to connect with people. There was a concerted effort to conceal this movement of funds from its stakeholders. Refer to Annex for the details of the misconduct and mismanagement.

The COC is concerned about the misconduct and mismanagement in the administration of the Charity. Under the Charities Act and with the consent of the Attorney-General, the COC has suspended the following persons from the exercise of their office or employment as governing board members, officers, agents or employees of the Charity with immediate effect:

1. Kong Hee1 (Member of the Charity’s Board and Executive Member);
   
2. Lam Leng Hung2 (Chairman of the Charity’s Board, Trustee, Agent and Executive Member);
   
3. Tan Ye Peng3 (Vice-Chairman of the Charity’s Board, Trustee, Employee, Agent and Executive Member);
   
4. Tan Shao Yuen Sharon (Employee and Executive Member);
   
5. Chew Eng Han (Agent and Executive Member);
   
6. Ho Yeow Sun (Agent and Executive Member);
   
7. Kelvin Teo Meng How (Agent, Employee and Executive Member); and
   
8. Tan Su Pheng Jacqueline (Employee and Executive Member).
   

The COC has also suspended the above-named individuals from their Executive Memberships in the Charity with immediate effect.

The COC will also consider taking further courses of action under the Charities Act against these individuals in order to protect the charitable property of the Charity. This may include the removal of these persons from their office as trustee, governing board members, officers, agents or employees of the Charity.

For so long as these persons are suspended, they will be prohibited from taking part or being involved in managing the Charity, representing the Charity on any matters, or attending any of the Charity’s Annual General Meetings, Extraordinary General Meetings and Board meetings.

The normal services of the Charity can continue as usual.

1Kong Hee was the President of the Charity’s Board (till 10 April 2011).

2Lam Leng Hung was the Treasurer of the Charity’s Board, from 7 March 2010 to 10 April 2011.

3Tan Ye Peng was the Vice President of the Charity’s Board till 10 April 2011 [thereafter he was re-designated as Vice-Chairman].

SOURCEhttp://app1.mcys.gov...ementinCHC.aspx

[Guest Guest]

I agree. They are good people of the faith. They can't do any wrong.

That's true. They tell people to donate all their earnings while they themselves invest in high end property n hip hop music business as their love for their lord Jesus Christ is of unquestionable n highest degree, more so than their members.

Behaving like a true blue prostitute again n again by Ho in her church-member-funded mtvs is n act of disguise humility; she doesn wan ppl to know shes in fact a living saint.

[imchaser]

To think that I have gave them my pocket money few years back to fund his wife in US makes me feel damn stupid and cheated >.<

Many of their supporters took to Twitter asking all for "prayers" and "fasting" for their protection. Yeah, go pray your heart out. They have been sucked 24 million yet still can be so cultist.

I feel so embarassed for Sun Ho fans here in bw. Anyone who own her cds should burn it on the fire instantly. 24 million spent on her music career and yet still cant hire her a singing coach.

.

Edited June 26, 2012 by imchaser

[trxsuspension]

some verses pop up in my mind after reading abt the arrest:

Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Matthew 7:17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

John 2:16 To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

[Guest Guest]

Jesus said in the Gospel according to Matthew 7:16-23 that

¹⁶ You will ^[a] know them by their fruits. ^[b]Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? ¹⁷ So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. ¹⁸ A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. ¹⁹ Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰ So then, you will ^[c]know them by their fruits.

²¹ “ Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. ²² Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many ^[d]miracles?’ ²³ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

[Guest beware of false prophets]

Sorry I left out the important first sentence:

¹⁵ “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. ¹⁶ You will ^[k] know them by their fruits. ^[l]Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? ¹⁷ So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. ¹⁸ A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. ¹⁹ Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰ So then, you will ^[m]know them by their fruits.

²¹ “ Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. ²² Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many ^[n]miracles?’ ²³ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Jesus said in the Gospel according to Matthew 7:16-23 that

¹⁶ You will ^[a] know them by their fruits. ^[b]Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? ¹⁷ So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. ¹⁸ A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. ¹⁹ Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰ So then, you will ^[c]know them by their fruits.

²¹ “ Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. ²² Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many ^[d]miracles?’ ²³ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

[TheAntisen]

What.

[curious_boi]

Moderator please explain. Otherwise, you are just abusing your mod's power.

Nobody in the thread was talking about religion. Only Kong Hee's action.

Edited June 26, 2012 by curious_boi

[Guest Guest]

Mix the China wine with the dutty wine...

[trxsuspension]

thumbs up for your bravery!

[Guest Guest]

All those Buddhist threads talking about karma and Taoist paraphernalia are allowed to be in Blowing Wind, but the moment Christianity, Kong Hee or Sun Ho is mentioned, GM will automatically lock the thread, citing religion as the excuse.

[Guest Guest]

Just wanted to share this beautiful picture of Sun Ho:

[imchaser]

Well, look at this thread. It seems all discussion on Sun Ho has been moved to my thread in flaming room. Guest troll again.

http://www.blowingwind.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=11273&pid=436702&st=600entry436702

[Guest Guest]

Ya agree with the thread starter. The local news media are now reporting on this case and so it warrants the status of a current affairs news item that whilst involving the actions of church personnel it does not bring into play any demeaning or degrading of said religion per se. If it does, you can bet that the local newspapers would not dare put the item as their front page news attraction. So i propose exercising some leeway here by allowing a meaningful discussion about the actions of the arrested officials, for it can serve as a valuable pre-cautionary lesson of what can happen if one is to allow greed and vanity to take control of one's actions.

[curious_boi]

Moderator is free to participate in the discussion and express his views. But he should not abuse his power to lock up the thread or stifle a genuine discussion.