Discussion on Muscle Building, Weight Lost, Weight Gain, Gym Workout

[Guest Guest]

Also, I cut carb (complex only) by 30%. Not too much cos I want to minimize catabolism.

[xydboy]

I'm also trying to lean out - in week 2 now. Not much progress, probably 1kg so far. I've not done any moderate intensity cardio, just HIIT. You fancy I'm doing it wrong?

It depends on your method. I think 1kg lost is decent. What I did previously was to do sprints every night. Within 2 weeks the abs showed and the v-frame was obvious. Of course it went along with watching my diet.

[CamperBoy]

I'm also trying to lean out - in week 2 now. Not much progress, probably 1kg so far. I've not done any moderate intensity cardio, just HIIT. You fancy I'm doing it wrong?

Chill la. I'm in week 7 now and only lost 3 kg. Hahah without cardio. Hence my progress slightly slower.

Try to keep all fish and ckhn breast meat diet. Works well for me. The old school bodybuilding way. Haha proper diet is the way.

[Guest Guest]

But I read that should target 1kg per week. Don't know true or not.

[gymfan32]

But I read that should target 1kg per week. Don't know true or not.

 

I think 1 kg per week is good guide for most people. But everyone is different. Some may take more than a week to lose 1 kg. Whereas others could lose double that in a week depending on exercise and diet.

 

To me, the hardest is to be consistent. Don't be disheartened if you do not see any results. If you do see, keep the momentum and eat in moderation. Usually results that take very fast to achieve will also go away very quickly if you are not consistent in your effort to sustain it.

[SuperSentai]

Choose cardio exercises that you like, and mix HIIT with low intensity cardio.

 

http://seannal.com/articles/training/best-cardio-exercises-to-burn-fat.php

http://seannal.com/articles/training/hiit-cardio-workouts.php

http://seannal.com/articles/training/low-intensity-cardio-liss.php

[Steve5380]

Right now, I'm suffering a budget constraint on food which is causing me to build inefficiently.

 

Budget constrained in food?

 

Inexpensive beans are complex carbohydrates that are far superior to much more expensive ones.

Inexpensive eggs are a far better source of protein than expensive meats and the much more expensive artificial protein drinks for hopeful muscle builders.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Steve5380

[Steve5380]

Chill la. I'm in week 7 now and only lost 3 kg. Hahah without cardio. Hence my progress slightly slower.

Try to keep all fish and ckhn breast meat diet. Works well for me. The old school bodybuilding way. Haha proper diet is the way.

 

3 kg lost in 7 weeks is quite good.  Keep it up!  In one year (52 weeks) you would lose 22 kg (!!) 

Of course weight loss slows down.  But... what is the urgency?

 

Try to cut on salt, sugar and all condiments as well. Over time you will enjoy the original taste of food, and notice when it has been adulterated by these false "enhancers".

[CamperBoy]

3 kg lost in 7 weeks is quite good. Keep it up! In one year (52 weeks) you would lose 22 kg (!!)

Of course weight loss slows down. But... what is the urgency?

Try to cut on salt, sugar and all condiments as well. Over time you will enjoy the original taste of food, and notice when it has been adulterated by these false "enhancers".

Don't think I'm trying to lose weight for that long. Just cutting till a desired physique before doing a clean bulk. I used to dirty bulk and eat all sorts just to get mass. So I look "buff" but never rippling muscles lol

If all goes well, just need two more weeks of cutting. Then finally can incorporate red meat into my diet hahah

Yeah. No salt no sugar. I prepare my own 5 meals. Only time I need use sugar is for my first meal. Mix it with oats. Even then it's Stevia sugar! Lol

[Choco]

Budget constrained in food?

Inexpensive beans are complex carbohydrates that are far superior to much more expensive ones.

Inexpensive eggs are a far better source of protein than expensive meats and the much more expensive artificial protein drinks for hopeful muscle builders.

I wouldn't really label protein shakes as expensive. A serving can go to approximately $1 these day. You will need about 3 eggs to make up the same amount of protein. But of course, in terms of nutritional value, eggs will give more bang for your buck.

[yexben]

Wondering between Creatine and Whey Protein, which will bulk your mucle up in size?

[Guest Guest]

I'm targeting ripped more than bulk, so I am leaning out at a stage where I am way less muscular than most BBers. The target is a boxer/mma fighter type of physique. As a result, I don't have much margin for muscle loss during the leaning out phase. I read that during this phase, for every pound you lose, about 15-20% is muscle mass.

Btw, I just have to get this off my chest - last night I couldn't tahan and snacked on 3 chocolate chip cookies

[Guest Guest]

Don't think I'm trying to lose weight for that long. Just cutting till a desired physique before doing a clean bulk. I used to dirty bulk and eat all sorts just to get mass. So I look "buff" but never rippling muscles lol

If all goes well, just need two more weeks of cutting. Then finally can incorporate red meat into my diet hahah

Yeah. No salt no sugar. I prepare my own 5 meals. Only time I need use sugar is for my first meal. Mix it with oats. Even then it's Stevia sugar! Lol

Dude, instead of Stevia, why not try honey? More natural. Plus honey has a ridiculous shelf life and enhances your immune system.

[CamperBoy]

Dude, instead of Stevia, why not try honey? More natural. Plus honey has a ridiculous shelf life and enhances your immune system.

I can try honey. just that its easier for me to use stevia as its in individual sachets. Easier to carry it around.

And I can be clumsy in the morning as I like to rush. You have no idea how I can spill the honey on the counter top or while taking it out from the fridge hahha

[Guest eggprotein]

How many eggs (equivalent of protein) to eat after a 3km run, 3x 12 chin-up, 2x 20push up and 2x 60 crunches? Will 6eggs cause high cholesterol and need to remove the yolks to do the trick?

 

Or do you guys recommend drinking protein shake as the easy way out?

 

I don't intend to become a bodybuilder. Prefer lean fit body type during NS, something like the pics below. Will I be able to achieve nice tone biceps, chest and 4packs with the current workout assuming it is done 3 times a week?

 

 

[CamperBoy]

Don't think the workout is intense enough. If you don't want to go to the gym, at least do a calisthenics workout.

I don't typically believe that eating a lot of eggs will lead to high cholestrol. A heart specialist told me that the amount is too negligible to be attributed to cholestrol.

I eat 6 eggs for my last meal. One egg with the yolk while the rest just egg white.

[xydboy]

How many eggs (equivalent of protein) to eat after a 3km run, 3x 12 chin-up, 2x 20push up and 2x 60 crunches? Will 6eggs cause high cholesterol and need to remove the yolks to do the trick?

 

Or do you guys recommend drinking protein shake as the easy way out?

 

I don't intend to become a bodybuilder. Prefer lean fit body type during NS, something like the pics below. Will I be able to achieve nice tone biceps, chest and 4packs with the current workout assuming it is done 3 times a week?

 

 

That amount will not be able to get those body that is shown, after awhile you really need to increase the intensity. I have seen people doing body weight workouts but its meant for basic conditioning, you won't get that ripped body unless you hit the gym. Seriously, its not very expensive and time consuming to head down to the gym.

[transmissionsm]

Suaku here...thinking of going gym but at 30 years old, I have never stepped into a gym before and don't know what to do there.

Do i need to register or is it just go in only like a public place? Is is always very crowded in a gym? Is there a time where a gym has very few people?

 

Hoping to get a better body. Hoping to look like someone who lifts (Don't have to be that muscular, maybe broader shoulders, more vascular)

 

 

I'm staying in Sengkang. I think there is a gym right?

[Guest Guest]

I can try honey. just that its easier for me to use stevia as its in individual sachets. Easier to carry it around.

And I can be clumsy in the morning as I like to rush. You have no idea how I can spill the honey on the counter top or while taking it out from the fridge hahha

I'm not sure if it's expensive, but I've seen honey straws in like Starbucks that are quite portable. Or else, be real cheeky and go to those hotel breakfast buffets where they have honey packaged in those mini jam trays and just swipe it all, haha.

[Guest Guest]

Don't think the workout is intense enough. If you don't want to go to the gym, at least do a calisthenics workout.

I don't typically believe that eating a lot of eggs will lead to high cholestrol. A heart specialist told me that the amount is too negligible to be attributed to cholestrol.

I eat 6 eggs for my last meal. One egg with the yolk while the rest just egg white.

The Paleo guys seem to think that eating egg whites alone would be harmful. Should go read that up.

[Guest eggprotein]

Don't think the workout is intense enough. If you don't want to go to the gym, at least do a calisthenics workout.

I don't typically believe that eating a lot of eggs will lead to high cholestrol. A heart specialist told me that the amount is too negligible to be attributed to cholestrol.

I eat 6 eggs for my last meal. One egg with the yolk while the rest just egg white.

 

Thanks, I just found a calisthenics workout on youtube which suits me quite well since I run and do most of the exercises at the park.

 

Wow, I've never eaten 6 eggs at one go after a workout. I should try it tonight to replenish protein loss too!  :twisted:

 

That amount will not be able to get those body that is shown, after awhile you really need to increase the intensity. I have seen people doing body weight workouts but its meant for basic conditioning, you won't get that ripped body unless you hit the gym. Seriously, its not very expensive and time consuming to head down to the gym.

 

I've just gotten resistance bands and dumbbells, maybe that could help intensified the workout? Still trying to google which are the useful ones especially for the dumbbell since they cost quite a bit. 

 

Gym takes up too much time traveling alone (to and fro about an hour or so) and dislike hogging sneakers around too. Couldn't disagree using weight machines in the gym gives quicker results within a month as I used to have a gym membership for 3years++ at FF. Now, I prefer a run at night without the restriction of closing hours nor rushing. Thereafter, static training stations comes more peaceful. Downside is NO hot guys parading around in shower room!   But recently, I spotted a cute guy doing static stations, like me, in the park once in a while.

 

Mmmm.. don't think the pics posted are considered ripped imo. Seems fit lean body type, this was what I used to be lol but have been slacking for 2years with softer muscles 

[CamperBoy]

The Paleo guys seem to think that eating egg whites alone would be harmful. Should go read that up.

The only main reasons I saw are bacteria, allergies and lack of Biotin or Vitamin B which is found in egg yolk.

Cook well to rid of the bacteria. I don't have problems with allergies. And my egg whites is accompanied by one yolk. If not take more vitamin pills.

[Steve5380]

Suaku here...thinking of going gym but at 30 years old, I have never stepped into a gym before and don't know what to do there.

Do i need to register or is it just go in only like a public place? Is is always very crowded in a gym? Is there a time where a gym has very few people?

 

Hoping to get a better body. Hoping to look like someone who lifts (Don't have to be that muscular, maybe broader shoulders, more vascular)

 

 

We all start as 'swaku' .  A gym is a place dedicated to exercise / work out,  so it has the equipment (weights, machines) necessary to do this.  They usually are not public but private places where one pays to use the facilities.   You don't need to go to a gym to start working out,  there are many exercises you can do at home.  But you need to get knowledgeable on how to do this, starting by reading a book about weight lifting and then consulting the enormous information on the internet.  If you don't have budget constraints, the simplest to do is to join a gym and contract a personal trainer to teach you the basics for a short time.

 

At 30 you are at a good age to start working out, and if you are smart you will give it a high priority so that you not only improve significantly your good looks but you then preserve them into old age by maintaining and even increasing the priority of this exercising. 

[Steve5380]

Wow, I've never eaten 6 eggs at one go after a workout. I should try it tonight to replenish protein loss too!  :twisted:

---

Gym takes up too much time traveling alone (to and fro about an hour or so) and dislike hogging sneakers around too. Couldn't disagree using weight machines in the gym gives quicker results within a month as I used to have a gym membership for 3years++ at FF. Now, I prefer a run at night without the restriction of closing hours nor rushing. Thereafter, static training stations comes more peaceful. Downside is NO hot guys parading around in shower room!   But recently, I spotted a cute guy doing static stations, like me, in the park once in a while.

 

You should have no problems eating a pair of hard-boiled eggs once or twice a day.  The yolk has protein too, besides many other good things, so it doesn't pay to throw it away just because of being scared of ingested cholesterol.

 

If you have space at home it should not be too difficult to improvise ways to lift weights without spending too much on equipment.  Of course you need much motivation, because it is much easier to be distracted at home than to be at a gym with nothing else to do but to work out.  And about the hot gays in the shower room,  you can enjoy a much better parade at gay saunas.

[xydboy]

Suaku here...thinking of going gym but at 30 years old, I have never stepped into a gym before and don't know what to do there.

Do i need to register or is it just go in only like a public place? Is is always very crowded in a gym? Is there a time where a gym has very few people?

 

Hoping to get a better body. Hoping to look like someone who lifts (Don't have to be that muscular, maybe broader shoulders, more vascular)

 

 

I'm staying in Sengkang. I think there is a gym right?

There's an activeSG gym at sengkang. Feel free to google the address. It doesn't cost a lot to enter that gym. Just need to sign in at the counter and you can use the facility. Is it always crowded?well it depends on the time of the day you go. The off peak hours can get rather quiet, usually around 3-4pm or sometimes in the early part of the day. There are trainers there whom you can approach to orientate you around the gym.

[Wafflecorn]

Omg, finally found this thread.

 

But anyways, I have very weak back and core muscle and it is sort of affecting my posture and it caused me some pain before. Was advised by the Physiotherapists in my school to focus on core training more and I found out that doing deadlifts helps.

 

I tried looking at videos and even asking others, but, still somehow I am doing it wrongly. And I have no idea what I am doing (it just doesn't feel natural or right the way I am doing it).

 

Anyone here knows how to do deadlift well and is willing to teach me? (I am willing to buy you a meal for helping me)

 

Any advice would be also be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks!

Edited January 13, 2016 by Wafflecorn

[Gabiegab]

^Deadlifts are a pretty risky sort of exercise to do if you can't do them properly. I suggest you make friends with people in your gym who look like they know what they're doing and get them to spot you. In the meantime, you should avoid doing them. Back injury is no joke.

[Steve5380]

36 minutes ago, Wafflecorn said:

Omg, finally found this thread.

 

But anyways, I have very weak back and core muscle and it is sort of affecting my posture and it caused me some pain before. Was advised by the PTs in my school to focus on core training more and I found out that doing deadlifts helps.

 

I tried looking at videos and even asking others, but, still somehow I am doing it wrongly. And I have no idea what I am doing (it just doesn't feel natural or right the way I am doing it).

 

Anyone here knows how to do deadlift well and is willing to teach me? (I am willing to buy you a meal for helping me)

 

Any advice would be also be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks!

 

Stiff-legged deadlifts are an excellent exercise for the lower back, and they strengthen it to the optimal situation where it doesn't get injured by wrong movements.

I have been doing them for years with heavy weight and I live free of any back pain.

 

But to do them without risk it is very important to have a CORRECT FORM.  This correct form is closely related to the flexibility in your legs, so before you do deadlifts it is very convenient to do exercises to increase the flexibility in your hamstrings. Yes, the old dreaded exercise to stand vertical with feet together and without bending the knees, trying to touch the floor with your fingers. There are many varieties of stretches for the hamstrings, and you find a large collection of videos on the internet. 

 

The easiest hamstring stretch is still to stand vertical with feet parallel and close, and then:  1- put the hands on your waist and start bending at the waist while keeping the back perfectly straight like you are still looking forwards, but your whole upper body bends together 90 degrees, and you end up looking at the floor as if you would be looking at the distance; keep the legs straight and you will feel the stretch in them.  Hold for a good while.  2- let your hands fall down towards the floor, and slowly try to touch the floor and come back up repeatedly, WITHOUT ROUNDING THE BACK but pivoting at the waist.  At the beginning you may barely touch the floor, but over weeks and months you may be able to get the whole palm of your hand on the floor.

 

The stiff-legged deadlifts are identical to the above hamstring stretch exercise, except that you hold weights in your hands, like an olympic bar with plates on it, and you don't need to come so far down.  But again VERY IMPORTANT is to not round the back going down but keeping it straight, so all the movement is at the waist, stretching the hamstrings and involving the muscles of the butt.  What helps to keep the back straight is to keep looking forwards for as long as you can while you are coming down.

 

These deadlifts and their strengthening of the lower back will also give it a slight curvature that lets the butt come out nicely, making it more attractive

 

Few people in a gym know how to do them correctly, so if you ask around you may get a variety of different answers.  If the PTs in your school who advised you to do them are still around, maybe they could check your form.  But if you follow the above instructions there is not much you can do wrong.  Of course the stretches are not "natural" and they don't feel "good" but stressful, but you can ease the body to accommodate itself to the discomfort and take it gracefully.

[Guest]

On 3 December 2015 at 6:04 PM, gymfan32 said:

But I read that should target 1kg per week. Don't know true or not.

 

I think 1 kg per week is good guide for most people. But everyone is different. Some may take more than a week to lose 1 kg. Whereas others could lose double that in a week depending on exercise and diet.

 

To me, the hardest is to be consistent. Don't be disheartened if you do not see any results. If you do see, keep the momentum and eat in moderation. Usually results that take very fast to achieve will also go away very quickly if you are not consistent in your effort to sustain it.

I wanna build rotator cuffs like yours. Which exercise is best? I notice even some huge and muscular guys have pretty flat rotators. I've been doing the following on two workout sessions per week but not much progress. Other than body weight, all exercises are at weights done to failure at the end of each set.

 

2 x 6 wide grip pull-ups 

2 x 8 chin ups

3 x 10 narrow grip lat pulls

3 x 10 wide grip lat pulls 

3 x 10 rows

3 x 10 rotator flex

[thepresentfitness]

11 hours ago, Gabiegab said:

^Deadlifts are a pretty risky sort of exercise to do if you can't do them properly. I suggest you make friends with people in your gym who look like they know what they're doing and get them to spot you. In the meantime, you should avoid doing them. Back injury is no joke.

All exercises presents risk, not just deadlift, though deadlift step its rank. Bench press can also cause shoulder impingement, elbow tendonitis problems, and also back problems (due to the arching); pull ups & chin ups can also cause elbow problems; shoulder press possibly cause shoulder impingement and related shoulder issues...  squats cause knee and back issues too, especially if your hip flexors get tight that could worsen then condition...

 

Edited January 12, 2016 by thepresentfitness

[xydboy]

16 hours ago, Wafflecorn said:

Omg, finally found this thread.

 

But anyways, I have very weak back and core muscle and it is sort of affecting my posture and it caused me some pain before. Was advised by the PTs in my school to focus on core training more and I found out that doing deadlifts helps.

 

I tried looking at videos and even asking others, but, still somehow I am doing it wrongly. And I have no idea what I am doing (it just doesn't feel natural or right the way I am doing it).

 

Anyone here knows how to do deadlift well and is willing to teach me? (I am willing to buy you a meal for helping me)

 

Any advice would be also be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks!

You can watch videos but still you need guidance from people who are trained. There is a difference in watching videos and doing the exercise itself, because many newbies are not aware of their posture and dysfunctional movements until its pointed out by someone. Knowledge of results at best is provided by someone on site. No harm asking those trainers around your gym that you go to, to help you out. In fact deadlifts isn't the only thing to train core, there are many other exercises that you can do. Squats, military presses, etc all would activate the core muscles to a certain extend.

[Gabiegab]

6 hours ago, thepresentfitness said:

All exercises presents risk, not just deadlift, though deadlift step its rank. Bench press can also cause shoulder impingement, elbow tendonitis problems, and also back problems (due to the arching); pull ups & chin ups can also cause elbow problems; shoulder press possibly cause shoulder impingement and related shoulder issues...  squats cause knee and back issues too, especially if your hip flexors get tight that could worsen then condition...

 

 

Yea, still doesn't mean deadlifts are recommended for beginners who don't know how to do them properly. What you said just shows that there are exercises that are more prone to risking injury than some other exercises, which is no different than what I was trying to advise. So bottomline: seek guidance and don't anyhow. Simple.

[xydboy]

20 hours ago, Guest said:

I wanna build rotator cuffs like yours. Which exercise is best? I notice even some huge and muscular guys have pretty flat rotators. I've been doing the following on two workout sessions per week but not much progress. Other than body weight, all exercises are at weights done to failure at the end of each set.

 

2 x 6 wide grip pull-ups 

2 x 8 chin ups

3 x 10 narrow grip lat pulls

3 x 10 wide grip lat pulls 

3 x 10 rows

3 x 10 rotator flex

Can try to add more rows (eg. T bar rows, dumbbell rows, etc). Btw I think you are referring to the lats, not rotator cuffs. Doubt you can see such deep muscles cause its covered by your lats and traps. Do refer to the anatomy book for more details.

[Guest Fit Uncle]

I exercise because I don't diet and don't want to get fat. 

I have a flat tummy but my six pack is not that visible. However if I want to force it out, I go on a  strict diet for a few weeks and they will become visible. But I don't want to be on a strict diet for long. I eat anything I want and keep exercising. Now I'm getting to be a muscle cub with a flat tummy. All that matters is that my annual health checkups show no high blood pressures or any old man problems. 

 

One thing that keeps me exercising is the feel good slightly sore muscles after exercising. It makes my muscles feel tight and alive. I like to flex my muscles and massage these muscle aches. It feels deliciously erotic and soothing. Kind of narcissistic but I like it and it makes all the efforts so worthwhile.

[Clickclock]

Just to side track, i'm studying at a local uni and there's this course about Strength training and conditioning, thought it would be interesting to learn more but still, there's hardly any vacancy left so its not likely I would get a place there. Still it keeps me thinking if I could score there? I've read through the forums that only fitness buffs are there. As for me, I've picked up gyming for let's say 8 months already, definitely gained muscle mass from 65kg to 79kg and then to 74kg as a cut. Still, i'm not sure if i have what it takes as i've never really faced any evaluator before.

[Steve5380]

12 minutes ago, Clickclock said:

Just to side track, i'm studying at a local uni and there's this course about Strength training and conditioning, thought it would be interesting to learn more but still, there's hardly any vacancy left so its not likely I would get a place there. Still it keeps me thinking if I could score there? I've read through the forums that only fitness buffs are there. As for me, I've picked up gyming for let's say 8 months already, definitely gained muscle mass from 65kg to 79kg and then to 74kg as a cut. Still, i'm not sure if i have what it takes as i've never really faced any evaluator before.

 

If you have muscles, you have what it takes for a course about strength training and conditioning.

[Clickclock]

6 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

If you have muscles, you have what it takes for a course about strength training and conditioning.

 

oh that's promising, thanks!

and yea, hmm maybe ill try again next sem as the vacancy is all taken up.

[Steve5380]

On 1/12/2016 at 8:46 PM, thepresentfitness said:

All exercises presents risk, not just deadlift, though deadlift step its rank. Bench press can also cause shoulder impingement, elbow tendonitis problems, and also back problems (due to the arching); pull ups & chin ups can also cause elbow problems; shoulder press possibly cause shoulder impingement and related shoulder issues...  squats cause knee and back issues too, especially if your hip flexors get tight that could worsen then condition...

 

 

18 hours ago, Gabiegab said:

 

Yea, still doesn't mean deadlifts are recommended for beginners who don't know how to do them properly. What you said just shows that there are exercises that are more prone to risking injury than some other exercises, which is no different than what I was trying to advise. So bottomline: seek guidance and don't anyhow. Simple.

 

Learning to do weight lifting is not as complicated as learning to swim or dive or dance. We are not "beginners" in the use of our bodies, except when we are toddlers. We all learned to walk without the need of Personal Trainers, and... do we get injured by walking, running, jumping!  On the other hand, professional sportsmen get injured all the time, and they have plenty of PTs and coaches.  

 

If you have the convenience of good coaches, by all means use them. But those of us who didn't or don't have this convenience we start weight lifting with no dreadful risk of injury by just applying some common sense. As beginners we don't start lifting heavy weights, but we learn the movements and how they feel.  The best coach cannot do this for us. 

 

About deadlifts and squats, any beginner can do them with just following some precautions, the main one is not to arch the back.  What is an arched back and what is a straight back?  A picture speaks more than 1000 words,  and here are plenty of preaching, pictures, videos around about keeping the back straight.  And the stiff-legged deadlifts to strengthen the lower back don't require very heavy weights. Already moderate lifting with special attention on form does much good, and one notices immediately the importance of hamstring stretching to gain the flexibility that helps this exercise and gives other benefits.

 

If you read a good book about weight lifting you find plenty of directives, advice, warnings, about all sort of exercises, much more than what a PT can come up with. 

 

So don't stay away from this activity thinking that it is something full of dangers that only a skilled trainer can protect you from.

 

Once we are not beginners anymore and we have more ambitions to increase the weights and gain muscle, THEN it is of the best value to consult the best instructor we can find, to have our bad forms corrected (or to find the best form for our particular body among several good ones) and to receive valuable advice.

 

Edited January 13, 2016 by Steve5380

[xydboy]

21 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

 

Learning to do weight lifting is not as complicated as learning to swim or dive or dance. We are not "beginners" in the use of our bodies, except when we are toddlers. We all learned to walk without the need of Personal Trainers, and... do we get injured by walking, running, jumping!  On the other hand, professional sportsmen get injured all the time, and they have plenty of PTs and coaches.  

 

If you have the convenience of good coaches, by all means use them. But those of us who didn't or don't have this convenience we start weight lifting with no dreadful risk of injury by just applying some common sense. As beginners we don't start lifting heavy weights, but we learn the movements and how they feel.  The best coach cannot do this for us. 

 

About deadlifts and squats, any beginner can do them with just following some precautions, the main one is not to arch the back.  What is an arched back and what is a straight back?  A picture speaks more than 1000 words,  and here are plenty of preaching, pictures, videos around about keeping the back straight.  And the stiff-legged deadlifts to strengthen the lower back don't require very heavy weights. Already moderate lifting with special attention on form does much good, and one notices immediately the importance of hamstring stretching to gain the flexibility that helps this exercise and gives other benefits.

 

If you read a good book about weight lifting you find plenty of directives, advice, warnings, about all sort of exercises, much more than what a PT can come up with. 

 

So don't stay away from this activity thinking that it is something full of dangers that only a skilled trainer can protect you from.

 

Once we are not beginners anymore and we have more ambitions to increase the weights and gain muscle, THEN it is of the best value to consult the best instructor we can find, to have our bad forms corrected (or to find the best form for our particular body among several good ones) and to receive valuable advice.

 

I think the concern is not about knowing where to find the pictures, but its more of being aware of their own body and the movement itself. You can watch a 1000 videos on how to do certain exercises, but end of the day you won't be able to do some of them because the movement and awareness of the body or even coordination is just not there. For beginners, the motor skill set is not formed, the attractor state for a stable performance of a skill is not there. At this stage, it would be best to have someone who is skillful or have decent amount of knowledge on site to guide the learner. Being in the cognitive stage of learning would mean that more feedback and reminders would be required. This would foster a healthier environment for learning, ensuring that all doubts are answered. 

 

22 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

If you have muscles, you have what it takes for a course about strength training and conditioning.

Actually that course doesn't require someone to be really fit, because the requirements and demands of the course is not to hit high 1RM or as such.

 

22 hours ago, Clickclock said:

 

oh that's promising, thanks!

and yea, hmm maybe ill try again next sem as the vacancy is all taken up.

If you get the module and need any help, just text me. Will be more than willing to help you. Most people struggle with the assignment that's all.

[Steve5380]

4 hours ago, xydboy said:

I think the concern is not about knowing where to find the pictures, but its more of being aware of their own body and the movement itself. You can watch a 1000 videos on how to do certain exercises, but end of the day you won't be able to do some of them because the movement and awareness of the body or even coordination is just not there. For beginners, the motor skill set is not formed, the attractor state for a stable performance of a skill is not there. At this stage, it would be best to have someone who is skillful or have decent amount of knowledge on site to guide the learner. Being in the cognitive stage of learning would mean that more feedback and reminders would be required. This would foster a healthier environment for learning, ensuring that all doubts are answered. 

 

Actually that course doesn't require someone to be really fit, because the requirements and demands of the course is not to hit high 1RM or as such.

 

If you get the module and need any help, just text me. Will be more than willing to help you. Most people struggle with the assignment that's all.

 

Again I want to counter fear mongering and a push for professional, personal trainers.

And again I repeat that to have guidance from another person is positive, and I have never discouraged it. 

And again I comment that one can start exercising with weights even when the help of others is not available.

I do this in response to a post that stated that deadlifts are dangerous and should not be done without expert assistance.

 

Many of us start doing some exercises at home based on what we read and see.

Then we go to a gym with a buddy or friend, and we get some guidance from them.

At this time we are not absolute "beginners" anymore, and we know how to move our body.

 

" For beginners, the motor skill set is not formed, the attractor state for a stable performance of a skill is not there."

 

There are always people without motor skills. But a normal adult or teenager has already learned to walk, to ride a bicycle, to go up stairs, to play on a playground, to do push-ups, do sit-ups, and various forms of jumping.  Don't you have physical education classes in high school in Singapore?

 

I looked up the expression "attractor state", which I had not heard before,  and I found that it is defined under Motor Control Theories: "coordinated movement differ in terms of the roles of central and environmental features of a control system", and "Theories about how we control coordinated movement differ in terms of the roles of central and environmental features of a control system"

 

I have worked out for decades without any idea of "attractor states".  I am an electrical engineer and I have much experience with control systems, but I don't see their application in the learning of weight training, especially at the beginners level.  If I want to get technical, I see the issue mostly one of static forces and mechanisms.

 

My goal is to encourage fellow guys to discover the great benefits of working out, based on my experience that started very modestly, away from the industry of body building, of complex technicalities, away from latest research in muscle biology, nutritional science, etc.  but with much common sense in using the few resources I had at home and school before starting to use commercial gyms. 

Edited January 13, 2016 by Steve5380

[Guest Guest]

Nattyornot.Com

 

Helps to bring people back to reality.

[xydboy]

19 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Again I want to counter fear mongering and a push for professional, personal trainers.

And again I repeat that to have guidance from another person is positive, and I have never discouraged it. 

And again I comment that one can start exercising with weights even when the help of others is not available.

I do this in response to a post that stated that deadlifts are dangerous and should not be done without expert assistance.

 

Many of us start doing some exercises at home based on what we read and see.

Then we go to a gym with a buddy or friend, and we get some guidance from them.

At this time we are not absolute "beginners" anymore, and we know how to move our body.

 

" For beginners, the motor skill set is not formed, the attractor state for a stable performance of a skill is not there."

 

There are always people without motor skills. But a normal adult or teenager has already learned to walk, to ride a bicycle, to go up stairs, to play on a playground, to do push-ups, do sit-ups, and various forms of jumping.  Don't you have physical education classes in high school in Singapore?

 

I looked up the expression "attractor state", which I had not heard before,  and I found that it is defined under Motor Control Theories: "coordinated movement differ in terms of the roles of central and environmental features of a control system", and "Theories about how we control coordinated movement differ in terms of the roles of central and environmental features of a control system"

 

I have worked out for decades without any idea of "attractor states".  I am an electrical engineer and I have much experience with control systems, but I don't see their application in the learning of weight training, especially at the beginners level.  If I want to get technical, I see the issue mostly one of static forces and mechanisms.

 

My goal is to encourage fellow guys to discover the great benefits of working out, based on my experience that started very modestly, away from the industry of body building, of complex technicalities, away from latest research in muscle biology, nutritional science, etc.  but with much common sense in using the few resources I had at home and school before starting to use commercial gyms. 

I think you need to read more on attractor states (refer to this article if you want to find out more about the attractor landscape:http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/58507/files/ijspeert02.pdf). It does stem from motor learning and in motor learning theories, there are many of such theories, examples of more popular ones are the information processing (which is what you usually do, the control systems), the ecological perspectives and the dynamical systems. At the same time, there is a definition of a motor skill. Anything is a motor skill! Not just your running or jumping. Doing a specific exercise, that movement that you need, regardless of fine or gross motor movement, it is a motor skill.

 

What i'm trying to derived at is to relate the stages of learning of the individual together with the environmental constraints and the amount of feedback that the individual is required to received. Coordination stems for matching the task demands with the individual intrinsic capabilities, and as such, you would need to provide sufficient level of feedback for the individual. I do not discourage the usage of videos, but I feel that for beginners, it can be a dangerous tool. Because if they are doing and practising the same wrong thing over and over again, it's going to cause a lot of issues in the future. So building on the attractor state, if you keep doing the wrong movement repeatedly, you are just perfecting the wrong movement. Hence I brought in the idea that for people with no training background, with no attractor landscape built, it is important to incorporate good practices and to get someone to provide extensive feedback to ensure that the right movement is trained from the start. Newbies always have poor coordination and motor control skills, hence that is why I feel that more extensive feedback should be given rather than videos and pictures because of limitations that arise.

 

I recognised your goal, however for mine as a research student doing graduate studies in this field, I would also want to encourage people to workout. It's good to be educated on the right stuff so that people wouldn't get injured.

Edited January 14, 2016 by xydboy

[Steve5380]

3 hours ago, xydboy said:

I think you need to read more on attractor states (refer to this article if you want to find out more about the attractor landscape:http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/58507/files/ijspeert02.pdf). It does stem from motor learning and in motor learning theories, there are many of such theories, examples of more popular ones are the information processing (which is what you usually do, the control systems), the ecological perspectives and the dynamical systems. At the same time, there is a definition of a motor skill. Anything is a motor skill! Not just your running or jumping. Doing a specific exercise, that movement that you need, regardless of fine or gross motor movement, it is a motor skill.

 

What i'm trying to derived at is to relate the stages of learning of the individual together with the environmental constraints and the amount of feedback that the individual is required to received. Coordination stems for matching the task demands with the individual intrinsic capabilities, and as such, you would need to provide sufficient level of feedback for the individual. I do not discourage the usage of videos, but I feel that for beginners, it can be a dangerous tool. Because if they are doing and practising the same wrong thing over and over again, it's going to cause a lot of issues in the future. So building on the attractor state, if you keep doing the wrong movement repeatedly, you are just perfecting the wrong movement. Hence I brought in the idea that for people with no training background, with no attractor landscape built, it is important to incorporate good practices and to get someone to provide extensive feedback to ensure that the right movement is trained from the start. Newbies always have poor coordination and motor control skills, hence that is why I feel that more extensive feedback should be given rather than videos and pictures because of limitations that arise.

 

I recognised your goal, however for mine as a research student doing graduate studies in this field, I would also want to encourage people to workout. It's good to be educated on the right stuff so that people wouldn't get injured.

 

xydboy,  thank you for clarifying these complex concepts.  Yes, we apply conscious motor skills all the time we are awake, and some more unconsciously on our inside. You have an interesting field of study that can be of benefit to the health of all.

 

One recognizes that your goal is to get people to work out in the optimum way.  Others we try to get people to work out AT ALL.  The benefits of working out motivate may people to make the resolution to do it  (especially in January),  To be a beginner is not easy in any field, but in this one the results are not immediate but long-term, although even a beginner may feel better AFTER the exercise than when he steps into the gym, and this is positive.  Still many people quit after a short time.

 

We don't want to add to the stress of beginning a collection of warnings about the dangers of working out.  It may be better to educate on the need to start slow, and then at a later time when weights are increased to take precautions to avoid injuries and give much importance to proper form to avoid damage from repetitive wrong movements.  In reality the worst injuries happen to more experienced and ambitious people trying to keep improving when they reach a plateau and are afraid that they will never overcome it. 

 

Even after decades of doing it I keep listening to expert advice, and I find things to correct that I was doing wrong for years. But it is different when one has experience and recognizes that 1) I was doing it wrong, and 2) there is a better way.  A beginner does not have this experience.

[xydboy]

12 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

xydboy,  thank you for clarifying these complex concepts.  Yes, we apply conscious motor skills all the time we are awake, and some more unconsciously on our inside. You have an interesting field of study that can be of benefit to the health of all.

 

One recognizes that your goal is to get people to work out in the optimum way.  Others we try to get people to work out AT ALL.  The benefits of working out motivate may people to make the resolution to do it  (especially in January),  To be a beginner is not easy in any field, but in this one the results are not immediate but long-term, although even a beginner may feel better AFTER the exercise than when he steps into the gym, and this is positive.  Still many people quit after a short time.

 

We don't want to add to the stress of beginning a collection of warnings about the dangers of working out.  It may be better to educate on the need to start slow, and then at a later time when weights are increased to take precautions to avoid injuries and give much importance to proper form to avoid damage from repetitive wrong movements.  In reality the worst injuries happen to more experienced and ambitious people trying to keep improving when they reach a plateau and are afraid that they will never overcome it. 

 

Even after decades of doing it I keep listening to expert advice, and I find things to correct that I was doing wrong for years. But it is different when one has experience and recognizes that 1) I was doing it wrong, and 2) there is a better way.  A beginner does not have this experience.

Nope, there wasn't any intention to add stress to anyone at the beginning. All I did was to just recommend people to get someone around to give feedback rather than to rely on the videos and pictures because as a beginner, it is important to receive additional help from others. Precisely that the beginner does not have this experience and is not able to recgonise that he or she is doing things wrong, that is why the feedback from others is important especially when performing some other more demanding techniques.

[Steve5380]

19 hours ago, xydboy said:

Nope, there wasn't any intention to add stress to anyone at the beginning. All I did was to just recommend people to get someone around to give feedback rather than to rely on the videos and pictures because as a beginner, it is important to receive additional help from others. Precisely that the beginner does not have this experience and is not able to recgonise that he or she is doing things wrong, that is why the feedback from others is important especially when performing some other more demanding techniques.

 

That is all motherhood.  When a poster makes a question about an exercise the interest is in how to do the exercise. 

The original poster in this matter here, Wafflecorn, wrote: " Anyone here knows how to do deadlift well and is willing to teach me? "

 

Neither those who immediately replied that deadlifts are dangerous, nor your wise cautionary posts, explained how to do deadlifts and what can be dangerous in them. There were no offers to teach him either. If the poster has an expert trainer who can teach him in person he won't have a reason to ask the question here.  But to have an expert trainer usually requires to join a commercial gym and hire a PT.  Some people are not willing to go that far and prefer to start on their own if they get some advice.

 

[xydboy]

49 minutes ago, Steve5380 said:

 

That is all motherhood.  When a poster makes a question about an exercise the interest is in how to do the exercise. 

The original poster in this matter here, Wafflecorn, wrote: " Anyone here knows how to do deadlift well and is willing to teach me? "

 

Neither those who immediately replied that deadlifts are dangerous, nor your wise cautionary posts, explained how to do deadlifts and what can be dangerous in them. There were no offers to teach him either. If the poster has an expert trainer who can teach him in person he won't have a reason to ask the question here.  But to have an expert trainer usually requires to join a commercial gym and hire a PT.  Some people are not willing to go that far and prefer to start on their own if they get some advice.

 

My friend..he wrote,"But anyways, I have very weak back and core muscle and it is sort of affecting my posture and it caused me some pain before. Was advised by the Physiotherapists in my school to focus on core training more and I found out that doing deadlifts helps. I tried looking at videos and even asking others, but, still somehow I am doing it wrongly. And I have no idea what I am doing (it just doesn't feel natural or right the way I am doing it)."

 

He already have tried watching videos and still doing things wrong, isn't it obvious that the amount of words and more videos would not solve the issue that he is facing? There is a need for extra guidance beyond what can be found on the net and there is an issue where he requires more extrinsic feedback on site to help him out in performing the movement. I don't see how the extra text of words would be able to help him understand the exercise better. Before we start dishing out texts of teaching pointers, it would be good to have a look at what was done prior. On a note as to what the rest of the people have commented, by looking at what was posted, its natural to say that it would be dangerous to perform an exercise when the person is doing it wrongly and have no idea in what he is doing. Its just an act of concern I believe.

 

On top of that, I would like to address that people can learn things differently. If they have tried words of advice, watching lots of videos, and they still have yet to grasp the movement of the exercise, then it would be good to bring them through the exercise through demonstration and teaching cues on site. Hence that was my concern that sometimes people watch videos and think that they know what they are doing already, but in actual fact they are still performing the movement wrongly.

Edited January 16, 2016 by xydboy

[Guest]

The shoulder consists of the front, side and back muscles. My back shoulder don't seems to develop. Is it true that you need someone to assist in training the back shoulder? Any advice?

[SeannyShortcake]

With the assumption that you have a functional lower back and knee flexibility as well as the body awareness to know how to follow cues such as "don't arch in the lower back" and "chest up", deadlifting can be really simplistic to learn even from Youtube.

 

Start with a light weight. Video your progress and compare it with the videos.

 

We won't go into details like if you have pre-existing injuries or deficits.

But that's how generally many people start out.

 

But to quote someone who can deadlift many times his bodyweight on the bar,

"Bend over. Pick up the weight. Put it down. Repeat."

Edited January 20, 2016 by SeannyShortcake

[versatile96]

hey guys 

 

i started gymming for nearly half a year now, around 5 days a week, spending one day on a different body part.

 

i was wondering how long does it take to get big... like at least a decent chest and back and a v-shape body.

 

and i was always skinny my whole life... i was wondering whether mass gainer is necessary. since gymming ive beent rying to bulk up and gained 10 pounds over the course of my gym time so far. 

 

advice please?

 

thanks

[gymfan32]

19 minutes ago, versatile96 said:

hey guys 

 

i started gymming for nearly half a year now, around 5 days a week, spending one day on a different body part.

 

i was wondering how long does it take to get big... like at least a decent chest and back and a v-shape body.

 

and i was always skinny my whole life... i was wondering whether mass gainer is necessary. since gymming ive beent rying to bulk up and gained 10 pounds over the course of my gym time so far. 

 

advice please?

 

thanks

 

Similar to you, I used to be very skinny and underweight. I tried mass gainer before.. it does help but depending on the brand, some may contain lotsa of sugar. I would prefer whole food, but it takes time to prepare. 

 

Training 5 days a week and maintaining it is not an easy task (at least for me), so I applaud you for your determination

I think at your pace, it is possible to get to attain your goals in a few months.. but I guess it depends on your definition of a decent chest and v-shape back.