Refusing To Pay Debt From A Friend!

[Vietnamese]

I have a Indochinese friend, he borrowed me S$1,050.00 for 8 months already. And now he confirmed that he won’t pay the debt back and he also don’t give at least a plain reason. Have you guys ever encountered this issue before? Where can I claim for this debt? The police neighbourhood or the subordinate courts.... or someplace else? I do thank for your advice. I’m just a foreigner working here, that amount is not small for me. The worst things is I don’t know Singapore law much...

Edited January 8, 2011 by Vietnamese

[Guest Indochine]

I have a Indochinese friend, he borrowed me S$1,050.00 for 8 months already. And now he confirmed that you won’t pay the debt back and don’t give at least a plain reason. Have you guys ever encountered this issue before? Where can I claim for this debt? The police neighbourhood or the subordinate courts.... or someplace else? I do thank for your advice. I’m just a foreigner working here, that amount is not small for me. The worst things is I don’t know Singapore law much...

U lend money without string meh? Got sex in return?

[Guest boy2man]

Engaging a lawyer to send your friend a letter of demand (LOD) will not be wise in this case as the legal fees and incidentals involved in sending the LOD will be around half of the debt already (NB. it also depends on which law firm you go to).

The Small Claims Tribunal is not applicable as it deals only with complaints arising from contracts for goods and services, not personal claims.

Do you have a written IOU? SMSes evidencing the debt due to you? If so, you may wish to make a police report. But I am not sure that your friend will be found to have committed a crime.

Much as I hate to say this, you may have to consider this an expensive lesson costing S$1,050.00, and write off the debt (and the friendship).

[browncow]

am sorry to say, even a written IOU or sms or letter, would not help in getting back your money. When you lend money to others, there should always be a thought that you will never get it back.

[Vietnamese]

Hi boy2man,

I would like to do thank you for your advice. I've never had sex or asked him anything in return. I thought he was a decent guy and I trusted what he said. You can guess when you see a friend with jobless, cashless, homeless crying in font of you then. I was thinking simply that I help him and other people will help me in the future. If you were me, you would know how difficult for a foreigner working to save money in this country.

Yeah, he confirmed that he owned me that debt by SMSes and emails. It's not nice to post my stupid mistake to ask other people's advice here. But you can imagine when I asked the total he borrowed from me, he answered "You are actually a very smart pathetic self-pity stay-at-home-weekend religion-insulting man who would have calculated that I owed you a total of $1,250"

Now he got a good job, he can buy anything he wanted, but he doesn't care to return the debt for me. This is the matter to consider about.

It makes sense to send him a LOD... a half of the debt for legal fees is better than nothing. Like me, he is holding Employment pass. I also want his name on the police record system or ICA or MOM.

Last time, I had a problem with a cheating English school, and I claimed at The Small Claims Tribunal. In case I don't think that I can still get a free support from a lawyer like last time. I'll try to talk to his younger brother from Jakarta for the last time and hear his advice before I arrange everything for this legal fight!!!

I'm really sad for this trouble, It made me sleepless over last night. I just want to help and just want to get back my own money only. Why? Why? and Why? I don't understand at all. Sigh...

Engaging a lawyer to send your friend a letter of demand (LOD) will not be wise in this case as the legal fees and incidentals involved in sending the LOD will be around half of the debt already (NB. it also depends on which law firm you go to).

The Small Claims Tribunal is not applicable as it deals only with complaints arising from contracts for goods and services, not personal claims.

Do you have a written IOU? SMSes evidencing the debt due to you? If so, you may wish to make a police report. But I am not sure that your friend will be found to have committed a crime.

Much as I hate to say this, you may have to consider this an expensive lesson costing S$1,050.00, and write off the debt (and the friendship).

Edited January 8, 2011 by Vietnamese

[Guest boy2man]

If you do decide to engage a lawyer to send him a LOD, you will have to provide your lawyer with the following information:

1. the exact amount lent to him and when; and

2. the various demands made by you for the return of the debt over 8 months (NB. give your lawyer copies of the e-mails, SMSes etc for your lawyer to draft the LOD).

Your lawyer will then draft the LOD for your approval before issuing the finalised LOD to him (which should preferably set out a specific deadline for him to reply, eg. "23 January 2011 by 4 pm" or something like that).

Should he fail to reply or make payment of the sum demanded in your LOD by the said deadline, you can then choose to instruct your lawyer to formally commence legal action against him.

(Your lawyer will do so by drafting and filing a writ of summons.)

Please note, however, that the sum demanded in this case (S$1,000+) is small, and in my opinion, does not justify the commencement of legal action, unless:

- your aim is to threaten the other party into compliance; and

- you have enough money to pay your lawyer's legal fees (which will not be covered by the sum repaid).

NB. Some people in your position may well choose to save themselves both the agony of having to monitor a legal matter against the other party and legal costs, and just move on with life. It's really up to you, cos you know your own situation better than I do.

Keep us updated! And don't lose sleep over money, it's not worth it. If you can accept that friendships can sour and money can always be earned back, you're on your way to closure, if not forgiveness.

Edited January 8, 2011 by boy2man

[imran]

If its a personal loan (fren to fren) with no documents, u hav no case. consider it gone.. I was a police reservist. Came accross this type of case in neighbourhood police post many times. I had to tell them.."sorry sir, no proof via documents, u hav no case. hope you learn ur lesson'..

[Guest alien]

High chance cannot get back the money i have lent! Even engage a lawyer can get back the money also no use, cos u have already wasted on lawyer fees!

I guess when comes to money, no matter how close or wht is the relationship with tht person, usuallt will end up sour. Very seldom will hear pple will return money back, esp if the amt is huge amt!

[Guest lawyer]

Blame it on,

1. Your stupidity

2. Uncontrollable raging hormones

3. No self control

4. Having too much cash to burn

5. Trusting someone you don't really know

Asians of all people should know that when money comes into the picture between two people regardless of their relationship would often end in its demise prematurely...so lesson learned, fingers burned, post here let the gay men "suarn".

[Guest Guest]

and tat is why we, asians cannot last a relationship, cmon it's only money

[Guest Garnish]

It makes sense to send him a LOD... a half of the debt for legal fees is better than nothing. Like me, he is holding Employment pass. I also want his name on the police record system or ICA or MOM.

If he's gainfully employed and assuming you win the case, one option to recover your judgement debt would be to have a garnishee order applied - this is a scheme to directly deduct the sum owed from his salary through his employer. It usually will be via a number of installments over a period of time. You may also be able to get back some but usually not all of your legal fees. Should you decide to take this cause of action, you must seek a lawyer to discuss the matter in detail.

I empathize with the feeling of dismay you must feel for having helped someone only to be cheated in return. You could take it as an expensive lesson and move on with life (most people would and many dead-beat debtors count on this) or if like me, you're vindictive ... you'll spare no effort to obliterate the scoundrel or else you'll just be another easy mark!

[Guest alien]

and tat is why we, asians cannot last a relationship, cmon it's only money

Maybe u r true, asians cannot last a relationship whether it is associate with money or anything else. I also dun know why?!

[Guest guest]

Going to the lawyer would cause even more. I may consider this:

Go to the police station to ask them if I can make a police report based on the sms and emails. If they say can, I will make the report. I will then inform this guy that the report has been made and if he doesn't return the money by a certain date, I will send this police report to his employer (CEO and HR) directly and inform Ministry of Manpower as well. I

[Guest chnBoi]

This happened to me when I was about 17. Because he refused to answer all my calls, I went to the police station to ask for advice. I wrote a report, with whatever evidence I had.

Because he was only about 16, the police advised me not to blow the matter up, lest he gets a black mark.

They called him up and threatened action, and he came down with his parents and paid up.

I withdrew my report. Case over.

[Guest Guest]

my parents lent 18k for my then sister's bf...till now no news.

my bf lent 8k to his not so close fren...till now no news.

your amt is less than them...just treat it as money paid to see a character.

[Guest Guest]

Maybe u r true, asians cannot last a relationship whether it is associate with money or anything else. I also dun know why?!

cause asians are generally not generous in money, time and love, period

[Guest Guest]

cause asians are generally not generous in money, time and love, period

pls dont chit at asians. caucasians arent that generous either. they like to go dutch.

asians are ok with treating each other meals and help a bit, but when it comes to lending big amt of money, anyone of any skin color will be pissed if debtor dont return.

OT aside, i have a good encounter of a calculative bitch who prefers to settle bills right to each cent. Her thoery is she dont owe u u dont owe her, she wont take advantage of you so you cannot take advtange of her.

i find her life pathetic. she placed emphasis on every cent and said that frens are not impt anyway.

of course, i dont mix w her after enduring her for more than a yr as a colleague lunch kakis. im disgusted by her..no wonder she is not yet married and i doubt anyone would like her.

[Guest who?]

$1 k + is not a small amount but to the eyes of law - this is a very insignificant amount.

all those lawyer fees & compliance fees can easily exceed this amount. Unless you are prepared to top up ... to bring the justice!

Best is to write off and walk out from this friendship.

Go to Police, mom - lodge a case and let them have a report in file, so that in future should there be any more case like yours they could take action.

[TheVisitors]

Now what I am going to post here involved a true incident between two of my friends A & B. I hope this may be a help to future lending cases

But should there be any personnel expert in legal matters, please correct me if I am wrong.

A lent B a sum of $30,000. Between them they wrote an IOU letter, which stipulated the date due B must pay back to A, the full sum amount.

When the payment date was very overdue, and B avoided A at all cost, A took B to case.

However, after 2moths of court arguemnet, the Judge dismissed the case, that B was not liable to pay A back the amount, as the IOU was an invalid document in the eyes of the law.

Thus A lost the case and could not retrieve back his money.

Much later along the way, A told me that actually, he was advised by a lawyer he later met, that there was a loophole n this case.

What A really needed to do, is to bring B down to the small Subordinate Court, and have the IOU letter, SIGNED in the presence of a legal adviser there, who bears as a third witness.

This IOU letter then will be a legally documented letter and statement, holding B fully responsible to pay back A the said agreed amount borrowed.

A registration fee of $15 is to be paid to the Subodinate Court, for the IOU to be documented.

[oralb]

@TheVisitors: Thank you for the advice, I think we learn something here on how to legalize IOU.

To the thread starter, $1k is really hard to justify the legal course, unless you action is more of to seek justice. Rounding out the suggestions, I think you can request the police to make a report, and bring the report to his company HR should you know where he worked.

[marky]

Now what I am going to post here involved a true incident between two of my friends A & B. I hope this may be a help to future lending cases

But should there be any personnel expert in legal matters, please correct me if I am wrong.

A lent B a sum of $30,000. Between them they wrote an IOU letter, which stipulated the date due B must pay back to A, the full sum amount.

When the payment date was very overdue, and B avoided A at all cost, A took B to case.

However, after 2moths of court arguemnet, the Judge dismissed the case, that B was not liable to pay A back the amount, as the IOU was an invalid document in the eyes of the law.

Thus A lost the case and could not retrieve back his money.

Much later along the way, A told me that actually, he was advised by a lawyer he later met, that there was a loophole n this case.

What A really needed to do, is to bring B down to the small Subordinate Court, and have the IOU letter, SIGNED in the presence of a legal adviser there, who bears as a third witness.

This IOU letter then will be a legally documented letter and statement, holding B fully responsible to pay back A the said agreed amount borrowed.

A registration fee of $15 is to be paid to the Subodinate Court, for the IOU to be documented.

If B knows that by signing the IOU at the Sub Courts would make him legally liable, would he even agree to go in the first place?

There're another 2 ways if you insist on pursuing this matter. If you can spare the time, go to his work place and demand for your money loudly. Most people wouldn't want their reputation tarnished and would try to settle the matter.

Another way is to get a debt collection agency to do this on your behalf. This one will cost you anywhere from 20% to 50% of the amount in question. For an idea of this, just look

or

[oralb]

If B knows that by signing the IOU at the Sub Courts would make him legally liable, would he even agree to go in the first place?

Well if he refused, it spelled out clearly whether is there an intention to pay back, so u can consider again

[Firday]

If B knows that by signing the IOU at the Sub Courts would make him legally liable, would he even agree to go in the first place?

There're another 2 ways if you insist on pursuing this matter. If you can spare the time, go to his work place and demand for your money loudly. Most people wouldn't want their reputation tarnished and would try to settle the matter.

Another way is to get a debt collection agency to do this on your behalf. This one will cost you anywhere from 20% to 50% of the amount in question. For an idea of this, just look

or

As for me, i do the other way round.

i rather forgo the money and get the debt collection agency to do this.I choose to lose the friendship and refuse to learn a expensive lesson. There is another option.

Make a police report.

Get the Debt collection agency.

Call him to let know - No more friendship.

[Eddy]

I have a Indochinese friend, he borrowed me S$1,050.00 for 8 months already. And now he confirmed that he won’t pay the debt back and he also don’t give at least a plain reason. Have you guys ever encountered this issue before? Where can I claim for this debt? The police neighbourhood or the subordinate courts.... or someplace else? I do thank for your advice. I’m just a foreigner working here, that amount is not small for me. The worst things is I don’t know Singapore law much...

Then he is not a friend.

If he's working, talk to his boss.

If he's studying, talk to his teacher or college advisor.

Let the dice fall where they will.

[TheVisitors]

Then he is not a friend.

If he's working, talk to his boss.

If he's studying, talk to his teacher or college advisor.

Let the dice fall where they will.

Theres another point I would also like to add, which involved another real incident. This involved C & D over a sum of $5000 C loan to D. As usual, the loan was overdue, D avoided C at all cost.

Now,if you would really want confront D in person, you may enter his school or workplace premises, but NEVER NEVER EVER enter

into his residential premises, even thought he may cordially invite you in.

What really happened was the cordial invitation, broke into an arguement in D's house. D's mother, who sided her son, quietly called the POLICE in another room, who came over and arrested C.

C was charged for illegal entry/trepassing into a private residential property and premises without permission.

The wheel of fortunate turned against him. He was jailed and fine eventually.

So guys, if you are pursuing your loans to be paid back, you may have to carefully consider this point.

[kh87]

am sorry to say, even a written IOU or sms or letter, would not help in getting back your money. When you lend money to others, there should always be a thought that you will never get it back.

i agree.

[Vietnamese]

hi All,

Thank you for you guys giving advice and comments... Here is some updates. By reading this thread, he's returned some and the remaining is still $700.00...

He's borrowed it near 1 year already, I've never asked him anything in return, even a word "thank"... but any time I asked him pay back, it always made him angry.

I work hard to earn money, so one thing is clear that if I loose only one single cent in this case, I will chase and fight incessantly... for sure! I always fight to make a difference between right and wrong.

Now he calls me "Bastard", and also give me a lot trouble, and the worst is threatening me that he will let the 3rd party know "I'm gay" (of course I'm not afraid) ... Any one here, please let me know where is gratefulness, conscience, good nature of a man?

Edited April 4, 2011 by Vietnamese

[Guest Guest]

.....the remaining is still $700.00... (I don't know when I can get it!!!)......

Now he calls me "Bastard", and also give me a lot trouble, and the worst is threatening me that he will let the 3rd party know "I'm gay" (of course I'm not afraid) ... Any one here, please let me know where is gratefulness, conscience, good nature of a man?

Congrats, you at least get back some money....

Give whatever name he wants, just also give back the money......tell others you are gay? Good! Then you will tell these people he lied simply because you asked for your money back. You will threaten to sue him for defamation. See he scare or not! When he begs for your forgiveness, you unzip and ask him to rim your ass and eat your shit. Then pay back the full sum. See if he dares the next time.

Good nature of a man............that is you loh.....(so only ask him to eat one piece of your shit, not too much)

[suckmenao]

Find his weakness and attack at the perfect timing would sum up everything.

$1k is not that much of an amount for some people, but your INDOCHINESE friend sounds painfully shameless. But then again, my Danish friend just paid his purely 100% VIETNAMESE husband $20k to make him sign a divorce agreement from a dysfunctional marriage (which involved my help in signing the document as well, pretending to be the third party for 2 years ), so race/ethnicity/origin does make a person huh.

[oralb]

Now he calls me "Bastard", and also give me a lot trouble, and the worst is threatening me that he will let the 3rd party know "I'm gay" (of course I'm not afraid) ... Any one here, please let me know where is gratefulness, conscience, good nature of a man?

Just to let you know that it is an offence to call anyone "Bastard" or "Bitch" it is chargable in court.

you can tell him that the next time

[cu3k]

hi All,

Thank you for you guys giving advice and comments... Here is some updates. By reading this thread, he's returned some and the remaining is still $700.00...

He's borrowed it near 1 year already, I've never asked him anything in return, even a word "thank"... but any time I asked him pay back, it always made him angry.

I work hard to earn money, so one thing is clear that if I loose only one single cent in this case, I will chase and fight incessantly... for sure! I always fight to make a difference between right and wrong.

Now he calls me "Bastard", and also give me a lot trouble, and the worst is threatening me that he will let the 3rd party know "I'm gay" (of course I'm not afraid) ... Any one here, please let me know where is gratefulness, conscience, good nature of a man?

Firstly, what i can say is he is a man without A DICK ......A shameful chineseindon.....not all chinese indon are like this bastard....

Secondly, if he treathens you that way , reveal his identity so that at least all of us will know who is that bastard and tried not to make fren with the bastard ....

Thirdly, learn your lesson never ever lend any money to anyone eventhough they told you like " ohh i really need the money and if idun get it by today i'll be dead " simply reply " sorry i cant " and delete the message ...

Fourthly, we'll pray for you so that u'll get the remaining sum fast All the best

[Guest elgar90]

There will always be cheapos out there cheating money using the goodwill of a "friendship".

Learn your lesson, don't anyhow lend money! Beware of cheapos!

[Guest Guest]

1k ok lar

mine is 40k

year after year say will return next year

5 years have passed

i blame it on my stupidity

hahaha, what is 1k?

[Vietnamese]

Hi guys, thanks for your interested in my thread. Maybe you don’t know how to deal with local people. But this Indonesian Chinese guy is foreigner who is working here, so that my friend was advising me to solve this case:

Will ask him to return this debt again next month. In case he will ignore my calls, my emails… then:

1. Going to the police, just only request them make a simple report to give his name on the black list.
   
2. Attaching the report and mail to MOM and CIA. Once his name is in black list, they will get this information if he applies PR or work permit next time.
   
3. Public this story and his real name, his FIN number, his photos, his family photos on internet…( I know how to make his information flooded on the internet ) If his employers check Google, they will know about it. It is also a interesting information for anyone who consider his job applications next time. Even 10 years later, his bf or anyone also can find this issue by typing his name on google.
   
4. Let’s his family know know his profile, his photos on Fridae (!)
   
5. Public and share this issue on facebook, and let his family, his Mum, his relatives know it (yeah, I connect to his brothers, his mum, his relatives and even his Mum’s friends on Facebook)
   
6. I will only remove his information on internet once I got my last cent back.....How about these ideas??
   

Edited August 23, 2011 by Vietnamese

[PaterTenebrarum]

I make it a rule to never loan out money to friends. This can severely destroy friendships. Instead, I will GIVE money to friends who ask me for loans and tell them to never to ask for loans from me again cos I value their friendship. I gave a girl I know $1000 several years ago as I knew she was in financial trouble , with her messy divorce, etc, and totally forgot all about it.

Recently, she handed me a wad of cash, thanking me for helping her. I did not expect to be paid. But I accepted the money. I did not expect to be paid back. But if they do pay back, I take it as a bonus.

[deceptiveeyes.deceivingminds]

Regardless of siblings, friends or lover, when it comes to money, when they need to borrow from you, they have nothing but sweetness and they would even swear by their life they would return you the money.

When it comes to the crunch, they will avoid you like a plague, curse and swear at you as though you have done them wrong.

If you can afford, do it whole-heartedly but best to treat the sum as a 99% write-off. The 1%, when happens, will let you know that there are still some good people around.

Just rare.

[oralb]

1. Attaching the report and mail to MOM and CIA. Once his name is in black list, they will get this information if he applies PR or work permit next time.
   
2. Public this story and his real name, his FIN number, his photos, his family photos on internet…
   

do note that it is ilegal to publish another person's info with his prior consent. you may land in a bigger mess should he press charges. Also unless you have a legal case, all things you wrote can be consider as deframation. which may be more than the 1k you lent out

[Guest Stupid Guy]

Mine case is that i lend 40k to a friend to pay off his share losses.

Till now no news from him to pay back.

[derryfawne]

Asians of all people should know that when money comes into the picture between two people regardless of their relationship would often end in its demise prematurely...so lesson learned, fingers burned, post here let the gay men "suarn".

I agree.

But including relative members? It's trickier there, 'coz the lack of money may also lead to demise of relationship. Not as easy to tell a close cousin/sibling that you "just can't help", no?

asians are ok with treating each other meals and help a bit, but when it comes to lending big amt of money, anyone of any skin color will be pissed if debtor dont return.

Indeed. And even if the amount is not significantly big, it doesn't make it any less irritating.

Knew a local friend who just become uncontactable through sms, msn, facebook, etc. He remains online on MSN and post updates on Facebook, but he'll just never reply to me. Had he tell me about his condition and that he really cannot pay back, I'd be willing to tell him not to bother about returning.

But to think that he actually told me that he'd return it on a "tomorrow", had me schedule the day and push other appointments away, and virtually disappeared from Earth on the day itself just really really pissed me off. Sometimes it's not the amount, it's the attitude.

[TheVisitors]

Firstly, what i can say is he is a man without A DICK ......A shameful chineseindon.....not all chinese indon are like this bastard....

Secondly, if he treathens you that way , reveal his identity so that at least all of us will know who is that bastard and tried not to make fren with the bastard ....

Thirdly, learn your lesson never ever lend any money to anyone eventhough they told you like " ohh i really need the money and if idun get it by today i'll be dead " simply reply " sorry i cant " and delete the message ...

Fourthly, we'll pray for you so that u'll get the remaining sum fast All the best

So the runaway debtor here is an Indo-Chinese.

Please check his background if he is from Medan.

Medanese Chinese are not well liked by the rest of the Indo provences. Throught the years, they have establlshed themselves having a reputatin for being stingy, calculative, crafty,cunning, show offs, brags, and tend to see others as lesser than themselves, because they adopted this superior air .

I have too many Indo friends, who told me stories of their attitude. In business dealing with them, many were swindled by them, as carefully crafted by their undermining schemes.

Most would run away wih loans , leaving their creditors in deep soup, and even bankrupt.

Say if 10 Indo Chinese from different provences, sat together on the same table and have dinner, the Medanese usually would not dare to reveal his origin. But usualy from their Hokkien accentuated Indonesia Berhasa , the rest can already tell who they are.

Believe me, i have deat with about 7 gay guys from Medan personally, and they do live up to how others define them. This is why I do sign them off, especially when they start to ask you for favours, which they gain more than you from their quiet cold calculation.

And believe me, the people from Jakarta, Surabaya, Pontianok, and Bali are so much nicer, humble, friendly and honest.

Sorry, no offence I don't have any good impression of Medanese Chinese.

If he s not Medanese, trust me, be awary in future when you have deaings with.

I am not going to cite real examples, how they are like. You wll find them disgustingly thick skin and calculative.

That I leave it to you, to experience first hand with them.

[briax]

Hi guys, thanks for your interested in my thread. Maybe you don’t know how to deal with local people. But this Indonesian Chinese guy is foreigner who is working here, so that my friend was advising me to solve this case:

Will ask him to return this debt again next month. In case he will ignore my calls, my emails… then:

1. Going to the police, just only request them make a simple report to give his name on the black list.
   
2. Attaching the report and mail to MOM and CIA. Once his name is in black list, they will get this information if he applies PR or work permit next time.
   
3. Public this story and his real name, his FIN number, his photos, his family photos on internet…( I know how to make his information flooded on the internet ) If his employers check Google, they will know about it. It is also a interesting information for anyone who consider his job applications next time. Even 10 years later, his bf or anyone also can find this issue by typing his name on google.
   
4. Let’s his family know know his profile, his photos on Fridae (!)
   
5. Public and share this issue on facebook, and let his family, his Mum, his relatives know it (yeah, I connect to his brothers, his mum, his relatives and even his Mum’s friends on Facebook)
   
6. I will only remove his information on internet once I got my last cent back.....How about these ideas??
   

if you have decided to lend the money to someone, make sure you have documentation on the transaction and that it is a loan. If not it will be your words against his. Even if there is bank transaction or cheque involved, you have to justify that it is a loan.

You can file a case with the police but i bet the police will treat it as a civil dispute. You probably stand a better chance doing mediation at cmc. The one that caused the curry stir.

Again MOM or any department will tell you that they will file your case but dun expect them to bar him from entering or applying for visa because a filing is not a court order. Cmc is also not a court.

anything you write online is your text for five mini seconds. Unless you dun want people to read it, which is totally nt your intention, someone can post and repost. You hv no control where it will go so to think you can delete it all, you are kidding yourself.

here is the fun part, oralb is right that the person can sue you for defamation. However, it is rare and difficult for one to be sue for that in Singapore. It depends how you word the online text. Plus it is costly for both parties to do it. Usually people will just end with a lawyer letter of demand. But that can be quite emotionally stressful for both parties.

how do i know? I was served a letter of demand for something factual i wrote online which the other party think is defamatory. And i spoke to my lawyer on that and decided not to do anything because that is nothing defamatory in my statement. In the end we decided that the party is just being difficult and i would not do anything.

This comes to the most important question. How much did he get from you? Divide that by the time you are going to spend and decide if it is easy to let the money go.

Edited August 25, 2011 by briax

[Guest Curious]

how do i know? I was served a letter of demand for something factual i wrote online which the other party think is defamatory. And i spoke to my lawyer on that and decided not to do anything because that is nothing defamatory in my statement. In the end we decided that the party is just being difficult and i would not do anything.

Who sent you a letter's lawyer? Was it the Thios when you were talking about them during the AWARE saga?

[briax]

Who sent you a letter's lawyer? Was it the Thios when you were talking about them during the AWARE saga?

stop imaging Nothing to do with the Thios

[oralb]

it was a 1k loan - which unfortunately big enough to feel the pain but too small amount for court case.

Chances are no loan or even official documents stated it as loan, so it is pretty much his words against your's.

That said, the only way is to inconvenient him enough to pay back, eg, asking him to go to CMC.but if he insisted to play truant, there is nothing much you can do.

[briax]

Oh... hmmm... a Letter of Demand probably cost $250.00 each (this I really dunno) and that is not guarantee that he will respond to a letter.

Try the community mediation centre then. http://app2.mlaw.gov.sg/cmc/MediationServices/MediationProcedure/Overview/tabid/305/Default.aspx. I cannot find whether non Singaporeans can use this service or not. You can call them.

Note these:

All communications during the mediation process are made strictly 'Without Prejudice' and should not be used in any legal proceedings.

Settlement

Any settlement arrived at will be binding on the parties if it is written down, signed by all parties, and the document itself contains a statement specifying its binding nature. If the disputants have signed such an agreement, any breach of its terms by one party would be grounds for the other to institute legal proceedings for breach of contract.

[Guest Law Yer]

Oh... hmmm... a Letter of Demand probably cost $250.00 each (this I really dunno) and that is not guarantee that he will respond to a letter.

More than that, a few hundred excluding chargeable incidentals, disbursements (if applicable) and 7% GST...

[4Kix]

First, I thought TS was talking about an Indo-Chinese - as in from the Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia region. But the things you learn about Medanese-chinese is interesting.

Second, can we make claims from 'loans' to others - if we're not really licensed money-lenders? Thought I read somewhere that that in itself was illegal! Yikes!

Third, it's always a tough lesson to learn. Especially tough when they seem genuine and you think you've known them well enough - not all of us are great character readers. If not, better to abide by a very strict principle of "neither borrower nor lender be".

I've 'lent' money to friends on many occasions; some have returned, others have not. As Pater says, treat them as 'gifts' if you can afford, otherwise stick to your guns (and perhaps lose a friendship that never was).

A colleague of mine whom I'd known for many years, came to me to ask for a bit of a loan to tie her through a cashflow problem as she had some immediate medical expenditures (she was going through dialysis). She asked for $1200. I gave her $1500. She wasn't someone without means (used to talk about giving tuition and co-owning a restaurant with relatives, etc). But over the years, it didn't appear that she would repay. One day, we had a meal with some friends when she had recovered and started working again, she remembered the loan and mentioned it. I said okay. At least she remembered it.

The next time I saw her was at her wake. She had a relapsed with cancer and kidney failure, compounded by complications from diabetes that required amputation and all. I wasn't the only one she had borrowed from. I wonder if she eschewed us because there were outstanding loans or the diseases. I wondered how she felt in those last years/months/days when she couldn't bring herself to call some of us to let us know. I sometimes wish I could have let her known that I forgave that debt a long time ago.

I now only give money I can spare...

[Guest Guest]

I learnt my lesson too!  I lend out a total of SGD75,000 to my friend in several phases over a spannof two years.  Worse, I lend to my friend via my Cashline and Credit Card overdraft. I trusted my friend so much and each time I asked to return me my money as I was already in financial difficulties, I was conned into lending my friend more money for business venture so that they can pay me back. To make the matter worse, I lost my job and was unemployed for three months and still need to pay for minimum sum to avoid default in payment.

Lesson learnt, do not trust anybody even your closest friend! And lend within your means! Today, I have cleared all my loans and more financially stable. I read from newspaper that my friend was sentenced to jail for misappropriating family's funds! Till now, after several years, I did not hear from my friend!

[Vietnamese]

hi OralB:

Noted your advice with thanks. In case he refuse to pay the debt next time, I will publish his information and this issue on internet once I am back my country. I don’t think that he dare to fly to Vietnam to sue me in my country but I am ready to fly to his hometown and visit his family before I leave SG.

I have another Indonesian friend (not Indo-Chinse) while I went to English school. He said that if I fly to Jakarta he will take me to his family and his uncle house (Just only S$75 for a round ticket with Lion airs). Last time I visited this Indo_Chinese house in Jakarta, I also took photos of his uncle’ address. They pay me back or not, it will not be a big deal. I just want to let them know that their good son is just a GAY who get online to cheat others people for money... I will do this way, if he say NO with my request next time.

do note that it is ilegal to publish another person's info with his prior consent. you may land in a bigger mess should he press charges. Also unless you have a legal case, all things you wrote can be consider as deframation. which may be more than the 1k you lent out

[Vietnamese]

Sometimes it's not the amount, it's the attitude.

I agree with you. The point is the attitude. When he ask to borrow, he promised to return and ask to borrow many times, every time with a small amount... but when I asked how much did he borrow totally from me... he can't not remember and figure out the exactly amount.

He still owe me the money, but he bought an air-con costing S$250... I ask him why he didn't return me the money while he got the money for buying the air-con... He answered easily that he can not sleep with the fan like me, he has different level and condition comparing with me.

Last time I sent a email to ask him when can I get my money back, he answered by email and threatened to me that if I send one more email to request him return the debt, I will not get "a single cent" from him... And now the reason to refuse to pay the debt back because I sent another email to ask my money back !(?)

I am really to let his family, his uncle, his relatives and the world know this issue!

I can't imagine someone borrow money and just want to forget the debt. Could you tell me where is the conscience and gratefulness of a human in this case??

Edited August 30, 2011 by Vietnamese