The Tantric Crowd

[buahkeluak]

Was getting smashed at Tantric last night in my tightest tee, and not for the first time the thought arose: how representative is that crowd of the local LGBT community in general ? In other words, it it fair to judge from the sorts you see there what the gay scene here and its participants are like ?

It was basically a. lots of local eye candy in their Friday night finest, b. white men and their entourages (including quite a few with pretty bizarre-sounding pseudo accents, ick), c. fag hags and d. the occasional transgender and/or cross-dressing individual.

I guess my question is, that's not really an illustrative cross-section issit ? I'm sure many here aren't as enthralled by gay nightlife and its allurements as the throngs that flock to venues like Tantric and Tabs on weekends - myself included <lol> - so what are some of the other dimensions of gay life in Singapore ?

[Guest Gay Spectrum]

Those who go out to the bars must represent a minority of gay people.

The most interesting gay people are those who are not narcissistic (not into gyms, not body conscious), those whose lives are not centred on ghettoes (gay bars, saunas, mixing only with gay people). In fact the most interesting gay people are straight people. Haha.. less hangups, genuinely affectionate, sexy without being bothered about the way they look, and some I know have 6-packs and they don't even go to the gym, and they hate wearing tight Ts. If you are lucky to have a bromance with a straight guy, the sex can be amazing too. Haha. Up to the 1970s gay people were so interesting because they were so unconventional. Now gay people, as in those who go to the clubs, all have the same ideals, same way of thinking. Its a very monotonous rainbow. Straight people now have less hangups, are happy to have gay friends, and are getting free from conventional ways of living, and they are full of surprises! They are becoming so interesting just when gay people who are part of the 'scene' become more and more predictable and conventional.

A gay man's life should not revolve only around his penis and asshole, and rather than wonder what the other facets of gay life are, the more interesting question is what are the interesting facets of Life.. surely there must be more interesting things than "gay life" for gay people?

[buahkeluak]

Those who go out to the bars must represent a minority of gay people.

The most interesting gay people are those who are not narcissistic (not into gyms, not body conscious), those whose lives are not centred on ghettoes (gay bars, saunas, mixing only with gay people). In fact the most interesting gay people are straight people. Haha.. less hangups, genuinely affectionate, sexy without being bothered about the way they look, and some I know have 6-packs and they don't even go to the gym, and they hate wearing tight Ts. If you are lucky to have a bromance with a straight guy, the sex can be amazing too. Haha. Up to the 1970s gay people were so interesting because they were so unconventional. Now gay people, as in those who go to the clubs, all have the same ideals, same way of thinking. Its a very monotonous rainbow. Straight people now have less hangups, are happy to have gay friends, and are getting free from conventional ways of living, and they are full of surprises! They are becoming so interesting just when gay people who are part of the 'scene' become more and more predictable and conventional.

A gay man's life should not revolve only around his penis and asshole, and rather than wonder what the other facets of gay life are, the more interesting question is what are the interesting facets of Life.. surely there must be more interesting things than "gay life" for gay people?

"Those who go out to bars must represent a minority of gay people." Really ? Based on what statistical data are you putting forth that factoid ? Your extensive experience with the heterosexual masses ?

And this little gem: " ... the most interesting gay people are straight people. Haha.. less hangups, genuinely affectionate, sexy without being bothered about the way they look, and some I know have 6-packs and they don't even go to the gym, and they hate wearing tight Ts. If you are lucky to have a bromance with a straight guy, the sex can be amazing too. Haha. Up to the 1970s gay people were so interesting because they were so unconventional. Now gay people, as in those who go to the clubs, all have the same ideals, same way of thinking. Its a very monotonous rainbow. Straight people now have less hangups, are happy to have gay friends, and are getting free from conventional ways of living, and they are full of surprises!"

Do you actually believe any of that ? 'Cause I don't. Like every other gay person out there, I grew up surrounded by straight folk, and I'm certainly not buying those implausible-sounding stereotypes for one second. You accuse your fellow gay men of being "monotonous, "predictable" and "conventional", but you seem at the same time all too happy to claim that "Straight people now have less hangups, are happy to have gay friends, and are getting free from conventional ways of living, and they are full of surprises", as if the ENTIRE heterosexual population of this country can be reduced to that simplistic four-way formula. You disdain the gay crowd's purported predictability, but your rush to predict what makes for heterosexual superiority strikes me as being a symptom of that very disease. Yes, sometimes gay men can be vulnerable to cliche-conformity - if only because we're a minority - but you've managed to do the same for the straight crowd: erode them into little more than trite, anecdotal banalities. And highly contentious ones at that.

If straight people pigeonholing the gay community as a homogeneous mass - all of us sharing the same values, same interests, same lifestyles - is a pernicious stereotype, then gay people doing the same for the straight community isn't much better, a head-scratching exercise in illogical pointlessness.

Finally, when you remark that "the more interesting question is what are the interesting facets of Life.. surely there must be more interesting things than "gay life" for gay people?", it's a fair criticism. However, I asked a fairly specific question about local gay life, and unless your grand, transcendental statement is accompanied by a concrete response to the query at hand, it just sounds like what it is: more abstract fluff. It's sort of like me asking how best to bring down the number of smoking-related deaths, and you replying that all of humanity should avoid tobacco. Certainly true, but so obvious and so profitless a rejoinder as to sound lamentably inane.

I don't mean to be snippy, but your response strikes me as being full of personal issues which you're parlaying into some kind of pseudo-empirical generalization on contemporary gay and straight attitudes. If you'll like to contribute to the discussion, by all means go for it. But DO leave your hangups at the door.

[suckmenao]

Was getting smashed at Tantric last night in my tightest tee, and not for the first time the thought arose: how representative is that crowd of the local LGBT community in general ? In other words, it it fair to judge from the sorts you see there what the gay scene here and its participants are like ?

It was basically a. lots of local eye candy in their Friday night finest, b. white men and their entourages (including quite a few with pretty bizarre-sounding pseudo accents, ick), c. fag hags and d. the occasional transgender and/or cross-dressing individual.

I guess my question is, that's not really an illustrative cross-section issit ? I'm sure many here aren't as enthralled by gay nightlife and its allurements as the throngs that flock to venues like Tantric and Tabs on weekends - myself included <lol> - so what are some of the other dimensions of gay life in Singapore ?

Foreigners : Singaporeans = 1 : 1

[Guest Guest]

Those who go out to the bars must represent a minority of gay people.

The most interesting gay people are those who are not narcissistic (not into gyms, not body conscious), those whose lives are not centred on ghettoes (gay bars, saunas, mixing only with gay people). In fact the most interesting gay people are straight people. Haha.. less hangups, genuinely affectionate, sexy without being bothered about the way they look, and some I know have 6-packs and they don't even go to the gym, and they hate wearing tight Ts. If you are lucky to have a bromance with a straight guy, the sex can be amazing too. Haha. Up to the 1970s gay people were so interesting because they were so unconventional. Now gay people, as in those who go to the clubs, all have the same ideals, same way of thinking. Its a very monotonous rainbow. Straight people now have less hangups, are happy to have gay friends, and are getting free from conventional ways of living, and they are full of surprises! They are becoming so interesting just when gay people who are part of the 'scene' become more and more predictable and conventional.

A gay man's life should not revolve only around his penis and asshole, and rather than wonder what the other facets of gay life are, the more interesting question is what are the interesting facets of Life.. surely there must be more interesting things than "gay life" for gay people?

well i thought this was written quite well.

[abang]

Going out to the clubs or gym is a very personal thing.. some may like to venture to these places regularly whereas others may not. So there is NO such thing as a gay ghetto! Dont over-generalise or over-analyse, please.

Those who dont go do that on their own accord.

[ixmog]

Clubs are a past for me. Generally, this is a personal opinion. Play is too kiddie. You thought you are in a secondary school disco party. Tantric a bar for expat and sarong party gay. Taboo is still alright with a good mix of clientele. But some of the kids from play ate jumping ship to Taboo. DYMK is good for chilling out with a mix of local guys. Backstage bar is mixed of old ang moh and pinoy and some local guys. Lluvia has the regular crowd from the closed Same Pub. Mostly chubs, bears and 30s plus and above guys that loves singing KTV.

[MisterPotter]

Those who go out to the bars must represent a minority of gay people.

......

A gay man's life should not revolve only around his penis and asshole, and rather than wonder what the other facets of gay life are, the more interesting question is what are the interesting facets of Life.. surely there must be more interesting things than "gay life" for gay people?

I agree. Love your point of view which I think is so true.

[Eddy]

Clubs are a past for me. Generally, this is a personal opinion. Play is too kiddie. You thought you are in a secondary school disco party. Tantric a bar for expat and sarong party gay. Taboo is still alright with a good mix of clientele. But some of the kids from play ate jumping ship to Taboo. DYMK is good for chilling out with a mix of local guys. Backstage bar is mixed of old ang moh and pinoy and some local guys. Lluvia has the regular crowd from the closed Same Pub. Mostly chubs, bears and 30s plus and above guys that loves singing KTV.

Only reason i go to Play is to get into Rewind.

For some reason when one of the "kids" wander into Rewind by accident, they automatically turn around and dash back into Play.

Rewind is a nice place to chill out with kid repellent powers. :thumb:

[gummibear]

Only reason i go to Play is to get into Rewind.

For some reason when one of the "kids" wander into Rewind by accident, they automatically turn around and dash back into Play.

Rewind is a nice place to chill out with kid repellent powers. :thumb:

Whats Rewind and why does it have such adverse effects on the youths. And why entry to Rewind is accessible through PLAY only? Ahh..sorry, so may questions, never been there, only passed the area many many times and dreamt of going. Haha.

[Sticky&Sweet]

Gay Spectrum - I agree with you on so many levels. Clubbing hopping homogeneous looking gay boys do not represent the gay population in general. Most if not all of my friend's don't club at all. We prefer to meet for dinners, karaoke, movies, the likes.

I've been to Tabs and Play a few times in the past few years. My observation is that the clubbing gays are ... stereotypical to say the least. Tight t and only loving hand bag music. Zzzz.

As for straight people being more open minded these days, true for the younger generation although there are still some conservative old fogeys around. Straits Times did a survey before on this.

[buahkeluak]

Gay Spectrum - I agree with you on so many levels. Clubbing hopping homogeneous looking gay boys do not represent the gay population in general. Most if not all of my friend's don't club at all. We prefer to meet for dinners, karaoke, movies, the likes.

I've been to Tabs and Play a few times in the past few years. My observation is that the clubbing gays are ... stereotypical to say the least. Tight t and only loving hand bag music. Zzzz.

As for straight people being more open minded these days, true for the younger generation although there are still some conservative old fogeys around. Straits Times did a survey before on this.

I have to say, I'm surprised. Or perhaps I shouldn't be.

So much spurious superiority going around, and so little intelligence or self-awareness. But then, hey, being judgey has always been a gay stock-in-trade I s'pose.

So you don't like doing the same things other gay men do. Is it necessary to climb up on your high horse ? Which, I'd like to point out, is really more of a slow-witted pony. So "clubbing hopping homogeneous looking gay boys" are "stereotypical to say the least" ? So why are you adopting the same moralistic, holier-than-thou tone as so many other posters on this thread ? Wow, there's originality of thought for ya: "Gee whiz, I'm gonna start hatin' on everyone who doesn't like the things I do, just like all the other haters out there!"

Lol !

And by the way, your little checklist of "dinners, karaoke, movies, the likes" doesn't sound much better than gay clubbing. It sounds EXACTLY like what so many other gay AND straight folk out there do, give or take a couple of tweaks. (Seriously, karaoke? You see like every second gay person I know, AND their second cousins twice removed. Not stereotypical or "homogeneous" at all, no.) If you'd said you, oh I don't know, enjoyed nuclear physics or devoted your spare time to lepers in third world countries, then yeah, I'd have replied that clubbing does sound frivolous. But all you seemed interested in doing was handing out unwarranted judgments like so much sour-tasting candy, based on what ? the fact that you enjoy eating and going to the movies and "the likes". <raises eyebrow>

If you and your denigratory ilk - by whom I mean posters like Gay Spectrum and MisterPotter - want to present a point of view, do so without the judgments. Otherwise you just come across as so many ... simpletons with too many complexes and too few grey cells.

[Sticky&Sweet]

I have to say, I'm surprised. Or perhaps I shouldn't be.

So much spurious superiority going around, and so little intelligence or self-awareness. But then, hey, being judgey has always been a gay stock-in-trade I s'pose.

All the blah blah blahs deleted.

And ... you're not being judgmental? *laughs*

Hey, look, lighten up. You're beginning to sound like a bitter old nonya here. You *did* ask in your first post whether there are other dimensions to being gay besides being a clubbing tight t wearing gym bunny. And we've given that right back at you. So what are you complaining about? That our replies don't go up your .. erm .. alley?

[GachiMuchi]

Was getting smashed at Tantric last night in my tightest tee, and not for the first time the thought arose: how representative is that crowd of the local LGBT community in general ? In other words, it it fair to judge from the sorts you see there what the gay scene here and its participants are like ?

It was basically a. lots of local eye candy in their Friday night finest, b. white men and their entourages (including quite a few with pretty bizarre-sounding pseudo accents, ick), c. fag hags and d. the occasional transgender and/or cross-dressing individual.

I guess my question is, that's not really an illustrative cross-section issit ? I'm sure many here aren't as enthralled by gay nightlife and its allurements as the throngs that flock to venues like Tantric and Tabs on weekends - myself included <lol> - so what are some of the other dimensions of gay life in Singapore ?

Of course there are other dimensions of gay life in Singapore. Take a good look at BW's posting. We have people like Brianx and his volunteers at OC whom had tirelessly organised events/seminars, etc. We had volunteers from AFA who goes to the various Saunas to do anonymous Aids test and those same volunteers who takes time off to do their duties at AFA in Jalan Sultan Clinic and those who organised the "Pink Dot" event, IndigNation, etc. just to name a few.

Thus, there are others who thinks that, "A gay man's life should not revolve only around his penis and asshole".

So here is another question: How many of you here would like to volunteer their time to help out in those event/seminar mentioned above? I wonder.

[Guest nudist]

Having your period today, buahkeluak?

[Sticky&Sweet]

Of course there are other dimensions of gay life in Singapore. Take a good look at BW's posting. We have people like Brianx and his volunteers at OC whom had tirelessly organised events/seminars, etc. We had volunteers from AFA who goes to the various Saunas to do anonymous Aids test and those same volunteers who takes time off to do their duties at AFA in Jalan Sultan Clinic and those who organised the "Pink Dot" event, IndigNation, etc. just to name a few.

Thus, there are others who thinks that, "A gay man's life should not revolve only around his penis and asshole".

So here is another question: How many of you here would like to volunteer their time to help out in those event/seminar mentioned above? I wonder.

From 2000 to 2002, I volunteered in AfA as a counsellor. Most days were a breeze, but some days, where I have to break heartbreaking news ... oh, those were traumatic for me. Eventually I stopped because it got me down bad. There was a spate of 3 positive incidents where I had to confront on consecutive duties.

Thereafter, I've done a spate of "volunteerism" stuff - inDignation, but mostly with the worshippers from the same buddhist temple - we go to old folks' home and help them.

But strangely, I've never considered all the above volunteerism stuff to be an aspect of my gay life. After all, I wasn't just interacting with gay people here. Oh well.

[buahkeluak]

And ... you're not being judgmental? *laughs*

Hey, look, lighten up. You're beginning to sound like a bitter old nonya here. You *did* ask in your first post whether there are other dimensions to being gay besides being a clubbing tight t wearing gym bunny. And we've given that right back at you. So what are you complaining about? That our replies don't go up your .. erm .. alley?

Lighten up ? If you’re attempting to trivialize the situation just enough so as to make it seem as if my response was an overreaction, don’t bother. You don't get to be snide and then laugh it off. Imagine someone going "Oh goodness all Chinese are money-grubbing loansharks really" and then telling them to "lighten up" when the people in question take offence. Get real. You want to make damning public conjectures then you should at least have the courage or the integrity of your convictions, or at least your assumptions. You can be gay, but you don't have to be a wimp.

Your bitchy schtick may have worked elsewhere for a cheap snigger or two, but I think I'm going to call you on it here:

1. Sure I'm being judgmental. A provoked defence though, pales in comparison to an attack. Yes, that's what your silly gibberish amounts to in my book: offensiveness (in both senses of the word). Even in your second post the unthinking judgments are there. AGAIN, if you’ll like to contribute to the discussion, feel absolutely free to do so. If you’re going to use the opportunity to denigrate people with whom you differ in opinion and lifestyle choices with some flippant barbs, I suggest you take it elsewhere.

2. Trying to hide behind the "I'm only responding to your question" pretense is just disingenuous. You were couching your initial reply behind some pretty passive-aggressive derisiveness, and from the tone of it having a good time doing it too. I'm not really complaining though, more like giving it back to you right up your polyp-encrusted alley. If you want to take potshots, why not try being upfront about it ?

Also, a bitter old nyonya ? So I guess this must be a habit with you - just make assumptions from whatever is at at hand. Not that it really matters, but I don't have a drop of Peranakan blood. A nick's a nick, not an existential statement.

[Huckleberry]

I've been to gay bars four times in my life and I tell myself I would never visit another gay "scene" in Singapore.

It almost always ends up in some sexual context, but then again, perhaps I was naive to be expecting more than that in the first place.

Neh, I prefer to meet a gay guy in a Library than a Bar.

Though the chances are infinitesimal.

[kee_hsiao]

Having your period today, buahkeluak?

as usual in most forums... there's bound to be quarrelsome people who like to find chances to "retaliate" to what they dun like to see... anyway, just enjoy what we read... daily entertainment. =)

cheers...

[Eddy]

Whats Rewind and why does it have such adverse effects on the youths. And why entry to Rewind is accessible through PLAY only? Ahh..sorry, so may questions, never been there, only passed the area many many times and dreamt of going. Haha.

Because Rewind is a very retro 60's hang out place with no rave dancing and mostly people that want to just relax and chill.

On weekends you enter through Play and make a turn on the right down a short narrow corridor into Rewind.

Play is for clueless Kids while Rewind is for Mature Adults.

[gummibear]

Because Rewind is a very retro 60's hang out place with no rave dancing and mostly people that want to just relax and chill.

On weekends you enter through Play and make a turn on the right down a short narrow corridor into Rewind.

Play is for clueless Kids while Rewind is for Mature Adults.

Thanks for that

[Guest Shy&curious]

I've been to gay bars four times in my life and I tell myself I would never visit another gay "scene" in Singapore.

It almost always ends up in some sexual context, but then again, perhaps I was naive to be expecting more than that in the first place.

Neh, I prefer to meet a gay guy in a Library than a Bar.

Though the chances are infinitesimal.

I also tend to cruise in the Library sometimes. Which one do u frequent?

[Sticky&Sweet]

Lighten up ? If you’re attempting to trivialize the situation just enough so as to make it seem as if my response was an overreaction, don’t bother.

Blah blah blah

Oh. My. God! Keep! It! Coming!!

I am loving this! I just love how I drop a callous snide comment or two, leave for awhile, come back and see major freakout action from you. But I've got to stop, seriously. My friends are calling me evil for such manipulations of emotions. Oh well. Enjoy yourself in Tantric! But tone down the angst though. Haha

Edited March 12, 2011 by Sticky&Sweet

[Guest Guest]

sg gays very petty one, a few of them. just cos someone airs their view, they hv to retort and say sgthing back. take it easy la. use so strong english for what? show off ah? very quarrelsome people.

[superflawless]

Straits Times did a survey before on this.

Ouh-leaze!

As if the Shitty Times is a trust worthy rag with any integrity.

I have stopped my subscription and I urged all my fellow PLUs to boycott this anti-gay paper.

[superflawless]

Lighten up ? If you’re attempting to trivialize the situation just enough so as to make it seem as if my response was an overreaction, don’t bother. You don't get to be snide and then laugh it off. Imagine someone going "Oh goodness all Chinese are money-grubbing loansharks really" and then telling them to "lighten up" when the people in question take offence. Get real. You want to make damning public conjectures then you should at least have the courage or the integrity of your convictions, or at least your assumptions. You can be gay, but you don't have to be a wimp.

I agree with you.

Some people are just out to create trouble.

Real vermins. Just ignore them and smile.