Banana: Are You One?

[qedcwc]

Think this might be an interesting article to share:

http://my.news.yahoo...ZXN0Aw--;_ylv=3

Not Chinese enough

The Malaysian Insider

NOV 23 — I know a few sad bananas. No, I haven’t started talking to my food. I mean “bananas”: Chinese who can’t speak a Chinese dialect.

My half-Chinese, half-Swiss friend is still bitter about the way he was treated, and is still treated, by some Chinese. Growing up, he’s endured mocking and outright rejection. Despite his tall frame, his schoolmates didn’t want him playing basketball with them. Reason?

“Only Chinese play basketball.”

“Aren’t I Chinese?” he asked some of them once.

The answer was short and blunt: “No.”

A Chinese waitress at a coffee shop has even mocked his pronunciation when he asked for “Milo peng” (iced Milo).

“Haha, Maiiii-looe pehnng!” she jeered.

Though I suppose a non-Malay speaking Malay would have a similar experience, I don’t understand the meanness some Chinese display to their supposed “own.”

Then there was the time he called up a potential landlord asking about a room. He told the landlord he was half-Chinese, half-kweilo. The landlord’s response: “What kind of kweilo?”

All my “banana” friends have their own stories to tell. One of them parked outside my house, only to have my neighbour reverse into her. When my friend tried to speak in English to my Chinese neighbour, he yelled at her in Malay that he didn’t speak English, only Chinese.

After a few minutes of struggling (my friend spoke a little Chinese but not fluently), they tried conversing in Malay, and in the end, my neighbour demonstrated he could speak English quite well after all.

OCBC Bank even has a nickname — “Orang Cina Bukan Cina” — as the institution supposedly hires a lot of “bananas.”

You would think it’s enough to know Mandarin, then. Not in Kuala Lumpur. My Mandarin-speaking former housemate from Johor was chastised for not being able to speak Cantonese... by a taxi driver. Last I checked, Kuala Lumpur wasn’t Guangzhou.

I wish native Chinese speakers would understand how tricky the language can be for people who weren’t brought up speaking it. Cantonese, with its eight tones, is especially tricky. Take the Cantonese word for crab, for instance. Pronounce it with a high, rising inflection and you’ll be talking about female genitalia instead.

In a country already plagued by exclusionary practices, it’s sad to see a community making such distinctions about whether someone is “Chinese enough.” It’s part of the reason why our country is such a mess, this obsession with race. It’s one thing to love culture enough to respect and preserve it but it’s another to use it as an excuse to build walls to keep the “others” out.

Integrating different cultures isn’t easy. But to be honest, I don’t think Malaysians try hard enough. Too many of us are too content to remain within our silos, to speak only with the people who look like us and speak like us.

It’s pretty easy to find examples of Malaysians not trying very hard. There are Chinese who refuse to try Malay food, Malay Muslims who tell other Malays not to eat at non-Muslim houses for fear of their food being tampered with, and Indians who do not speak anything but Tamil.

“Let’s just ignore everyone else except when we’re not getting our ‘rights’.”

To be honest, I am tired of writing about race all the time. Tired of pointing out how insular we are, how, really, we’re all a little bit racist.

It’s a dream now, isn’t it? To wish for another Malaysian to just see me. See past my skin colour, not ask about my racial makeup, not care what God I worship. We lie to ourselves, saying that it’s the government that makes all the racial distinctions when really the person you see in the mirror every day just wants to see the same thing reflected, but in other people.

This is Malaysia. But deep down, are you Malaysian?

To the Malaysian Chinese who feel put upon by other Malaysian Chinese, I feel you. But if others refuse to acknowledge you as “real” Chinese, that’s really their problem.

I leave you with my “love letter” to Malaysian Chinese, performed at the Penang Performing Arts Centre’s opening.

Edited November 23, 2011 by qedcwc

[greysuperhero]

Hmmm, what about Singapore? Are we also bananas if we do not speak dialects? Or does speaking both English and the Mother Tongue qualify us as real Singaporeans?

I've been chastised before - the person used the exact word on me - a banana. He said I was such an Ang Mo Pai type, listen to ang mo music and watch ang mo tv and speak ang mo (almost exclusively). Ironically, I prefer asian men to westerners! LOL. Which was why I tried to converse in mandarin a little bit more, and listen to some chinese music. HAHA.

[qedcwc]

The reason why I posted this article because in a way, its context is rather relevant across many Chinese descendants in South East Asia.

Even in Singapore, despite its bilingual education policy, one might find most Singaporeans would prefer to converse in English/Singlish more than Mandarin itself.

On a sidenote, I had chatted with a Chinese/Tionghoa Indonesian friend (a gay too) over MSN the other day, who related to me how he was being mocked by a date (a local) for not being able to speak Mandarin properly. Given me, I would have kicked his butt and told him off to go and have a taste of what life was like under Suharto. His date even tried to correct his accent in English even though he does not speak British or American accent himself!

[derryfawne]

I'm probably a banana. I know how to speak Hokkian dialect but can't utter proper Mandarin (except for basic kindergarden-level ones lol) even under the threat of death. Not that I don't want to, but I'm just bad at remembering so many things... the meaning, the han yu pin yin, the tone, and most difficult of all, how to write the words.

[DriveMe]

I'm probably a banana. I know how to speak Hokkian dialect but can't utter proper Mandarin (except for basic kindergarden-level ones lol) even under the threat of death. Not that I don't want to, but I'm just bad at remembering so many things... the meaning, the han yu pin yin, the tone, and most difficult of all, how to write the words.

This.

I remember since primary 3 I've started to fail my chinese. It's like,you learn one chinese word,and then there's TWO meanings for that chinese word,with the SAME STROKES AND CHARACTER. It really made my brain burst.

Up until now I'm speaking chinese at home to my mom & grandma,but I still can't write them down. I can only speak it.By basic level. :yuk:

[derryfawne]

I remember since primary 3 I've started to fail my chinese. It's like,you learn one chinese word,and then there's TWO meanings for that chinese word,with the SAME STROKES AND CHARACTER. It really made my brain burst.

LOL, I always wrote down the mandarin words somewhere on my table or on someone else's table.

It's cheating, but otherwise I would never graduate from my high school. :twisted:

Edited November 23, 2011 by derryfawne

[DriveMe]

LOL, I always wrote down the mandarin words somewhere on my table or on someone else's table.

It's cheating, but otherwise I would never graduate from my high school. :twisted:

You're nowhere as good as my class. During tests,we would just discuss the answer or use phones. LOL.

[MomentoMori]

A 'banana' is generally a derogatory term characterized as a Chinese who (1) can't speak his/her mother tongue and (2) Western-centric. Admittedly I would fall in category 2 but I am reasonably competent in conversing and writing in Mandarin. Nevertheless I have been, on many occasions, classified as a 'banana'.

[MomentoMori]

Ironically, from my own observations, those who have denounced me as a 'banana' are not as proficient in Mandarin though it is their preferred language. I'd rather be fluent in one language rather than none.

[derryfawne]

A 'banana' is generally a derogatory term characterized as a Chinese who (1) can't speak his/her mother tongue and (2) Western-centric. Admittedly I would fall in category 2 but I am reasonably competent in conversing and writing in Mandarin. Nevertheless I have been, on many occasions, classified as a 'banana'.

I fall into #2 also.

I like Asians though, the people and the traditional culture and such. But when we're talking mass culture, I just think that Western entertainment is more intriguing, if only for the fact that they have more financial resources to polish their music/movies/etc to perfection.

[Officeboy]

Anyway most ppl dun use chinese after high school. Chinese is only used to chat with bf so non chinese dunno, sing songs n watch chinese variety only. Our society uses english in the workplace. Alot ppl rusty le, unless they read chinese newspaper

[faberC]

But I do realize alot of ppl with high school level of Chinese refuse to use Chinese and claim that they're not good at all in mandarin. Not even trying, whenever seeing Chinese words at work, straight away pass it to other colleagues who knows Chinese. I mean, being able to survive high school Chinese should be able to read chinese words quite decently, isn't it?

Some will think it's crazy if one reading Chinese article online, and freaks them out saying thts cina man. Tht really happened to my friend!

The society here thinks its totally alright if one doesn't know Chinese and probably will tell u proudly in singlish that they don't know Chinese. But one who speaks less than perfect English will be looked down by the society.

One who has been brought up as banana has no choice, We know tht they don't learn the language. Being Chinese myself I treasure my mother tongue.

[qedcwc]

A 'banana' is generally a derogatory term characterized as a Chinese who (1) can't speak his/her mother tongue and (2) Western-centric. Admittedly I would fall in category 2 but I am reasonably competent in conversing and writing in Mandarin. Nevertheless I have been, on many occasions, classified as a 'banana'.

I wonder.... I can reasonably speak, read and write Mandarin, even I wasn't schooled in a Chinese school, which doesn't make me fall under category 1.

But then, I'm not exactly Western-centric either, as I still observe fundamental traditional practices, like celebrating Duanwu, Mid-Autumn, Winter Solstice, i.e. I still make a note to jot down all the festival dates on the Gregorian calendar every year for me to return home for a simple reunion with my family. I tend to avoid Western medicine, opt for TCM instead. I don't exactly speak English all the time. I even seldom watch ChannelNewsAsia, unless if I'm at the gym. Hardly touched Channel 5 unless there are movies I wanna catch. Back at home, where my house is able to receive Mediacorp signal, it's either Channel 8 or Malaysia's ntv7, 8TV and TV3 for me.

So, is there a category 3 for me?

Edited November 23, 2011 by qedcwc

[Guest dxn]

I remember when in Primary 5 while taking Chinese text, we are supposed to make a sentence out of a word or phrase that was given.

My chinese teacher would close one eye even she saw us trying to cheat by refering to our chinese text books under the desk cos she knows we will take forever to even find the words. And if we really did manage to find it then it is already an accomplishment cos at least we knows where in the text book the words are used haha.

[keyboard]

Tsk tsk tsk. All you bananas...

From the author being a malaysian, I guess his friend should at least make an attempt to be able to do conversational malay.

For those in singapore chinese who cannot speak chinese. The chinese language didn't become more difficult over the past 5-10 years, it's the mindset of people who demand easier chinese to be taught in schools. Generations, batches of chinese managed to pass the launguage in school, what changed?

Being chinese and able to speak the language is all about traditions. You don't see a french not proud of his native language, and he will tell you how good their food culture is.

And here we are celebrating haloween and too lazy to burn some incense for Qing Ming. Don't forget where your roots are from.

[MomentoMori]

I wonder.... I can reasonably speak, read and write Mandarin, even I wasn't schooled in a Chinese school, which doesn't make me fall under category 1.

But then, I'm not exactly Western-centric either, as I still observe fundamental traditional practices, like celebrating Duanwu, Mid-Autumn, Winter Solstice, i.e. I still make a note to jot down all the festival dates on the Gregorian calendar every year for me to return home for a simple reunion with my family. I tend to avoid Western medicine, opt for TCM instead. I don't exactly speak English all the time. I even seldom watch ChannelNewsAsia, unless if I'm at the gym. Hardly touched Channel 5 unless there are movies I wanna catch. Back at home, where my house is able to receive Mediacorp signal, it's either Channel 8 or Malaysia's ntv7, 8TV and TV3 for me.

So, is there a category 3 for me?

That depends, do you consider yourself a banana?

[alien]

Banana refer to chinese who cannot speak dialects or mandarin? I tot usually bananas always means those who is chinese but cannot speak mandarin or understand chinese?!

[Guest Passingthru]

'Banana' is a simplistic term to explain what would otherwise be a complex issue. However, one size fits all unfortunately doesn't fit all. This isn't rhetoric, it's the simple truth.

The Chinese diaspora is so wide and centuries old with far reaching consequences that it would take a novel to explain what, why and wherefore along with examples both real and anecdotal. Simpler to analyse those who easily brand others as 'bananas' .......they are usually, albeit not exclusively, :

- middle-of-the-road types and highly literate. The so called uneducated/poorly educated ones along with those who are truly educated, internationalized, worldly-wise and exposed usually have no qualms accepting 'bananas' for what they are, ie, just another type of person. The former can even good naturedly conduct a "chicken and duck" conversation with both sides speaking in a language they are most comfortable with but somehow understanding each other while the latter are equally sincere in friendliness and understanding. The key here is acceptance and inclusion......characteristics which middle-of-the-road types find hard to tolerate or adopt. ( Off topic but have gays with similarly negative attitudes ever wondered why they are male yet not heterosexual? Don't they hear the straights tsk tsk-ing at them? )

- defensive.... and the best defense is of course a good offense. Subconsciously, they realise that they themselves are "neither here nor there" and by branding others 'bananas' or cultural misfits, they hope to escape their own mediocrity and lack of meaningful achievements/abilities. In other words, it feels good.

- confused. While they are justifiably upset with the pretentious, eg, those who so easily embrace Americanisms despite little or no direct real interaction with Americans, their wrath and contempt spill over onto undeserving 'bananas' whom they see in the same light. As expressed earlier, highly literate doesn't necessarily mean highly educated, thus, the poor discernment.

- angry that the world around them doesn't fit into their ideas of what ought to be. Eventually, identifying 'bananas' and having the opportunities to condescend and antagonise such persons becomes their "religion".

[xiandarkthorne]

As a Baba Chinese, I have encountered this all my life. I used to get pretty insulted until I noticed just what kind of people were calling me a banana. That was when I learnt to reply, "Better to be a banana than a stupid and racist nutcase, right?"

In case anyone wants to know why -

'Stupid' because they've had at least ten years of education and still can't speak, read or write either simple English or Bahasa Malaysia correctly, and they're actually proud of that?

'Racist nutcase' ... well, that's obvious, isn't it?

Edited November 23, 2011 by xiandarkthorne

[Guest Kendall]

Banana or not, the ability to converse in Mandarin or any CHinese dialect is not as fatal as not having a distinct culture of a certain race.

Sporean Chinese are not Chinese anyway, not because of the deficiency in linguistic abilities, but more the lack in cultural identity.

I cannot imagine how a Spore Chinese can be represented culturally (or linguitically) alongside the Taiwanese, HKer or PRC. And please spare me using Singlish as a distinct aspect of Spore culture.

At least peranakan Chinese has a dinstinct culture which is unique in itself.

[darkflame]

I read a similar topic in another forum. It got ugly.

I'll just outrightly say I'm a banana. I will probably never see Chinese characters the same way native speakers do. They are just decoration on paper to me.

My accent is more or less monotone, despite 11 years of learning Mandarin.

Ironically, I learnt back all my Chinese vocabulary via Japanese. So now I speak pseudo-Mandarin using Japanese vocabulary.

And speaking of which, in my secondary school class, those who expressed interest in Japanese then were mostly bananas. Pretty much an irony.

[qedcwc]

That depends, do you consider yourself a banana?

I might consider myself partially banana, considering my basics in Chinese were not as sturdy as those educated in Chinese schools.

I'm very bad when it comes to classics and idioms.

As a Baba Chinese, I have encountered this all my life. I used to get pretty insulted until I noticed just what kind of people were calling me a banana. That was when I learnt to reply, "Better to be a banana than a stupid and racist nutcase, right?"

In case anyone wants to know why -

'Stupid' because they've had at least ten years of education and still can't speak, read or write either simple English or Bahasa Malaysia correctly, and they're actually proud of that?

'Racist nutcase' ... well, that's obvious, isn't it?

Hahahahahaha...... Juz my sentiments. At the end of the day, it really goes back to what kind of environment these duds immerse themselves in. If it's all about Chinese novels, comics, TV, radio, then they can forget abt speaking proper sentences in Bahasa Malaysia or English.

[derryfawne]

Sporean Chinese are not Chinese anyway, not because of the deficiency in linguistic abilities, but more the lack in cultural identity.

I cannot imagine how a Spore Chinese can be represented culturally (or linguitically) alongside the Taiwanese, HKer or PRC. And please spare me using Singlish as a distinct aspect of Spore culture.

Yes. Totally, Singapore is probably akin to Australia... in that its cultural identity is not so much rooted in old traditions, due to them being 'melting pot' countries that are made up of people who were initially immigrants ages ago.

It has always been the more advanced of the South East Asian countries, and the country seems to blossom most in the modern era, with such advancement in technology and architecture. I'll bet my money on stuff like 'modern language' Singlish and 'the durian' Esplanade to be the ones that will go down best into the cultural history of Singapore. Distinctive ethnic culture such as Peranakan will go down the history too. Government's initiatives also seem to point direction towards the concept of a 'globalized' Singapore, and shuns stuff like Singlish because they are not 'good' English.

That aside, I think the 'banana sentiment' is more a racial issue, in that every Chinese descendant, regardless of his/her nationality, should bear proudness on Chinese culture.

[suckling_pig]

As a Baba Chinese, I have encountered this all my life. I used to get pretty insulted until I noticed just what kind of people were calling me a banana. That was when I learnt to reply, "Better to be a banana than a stupid and racist nutcase, right?"

In case anyone wants to know why -

'Stupid' because they've had at least ten years of education and still can't speak, read or write either simple English or Bahasa Malaysia correctly, and they're actually proud of that?

'Racist nutcase' ... well, that's obvious, isn't it?

I have very similar experience, but I observe the ones making such remarks are usually "sinkek"

My suspicion is that they feel they had little to be proud of themselves and feel insecure. So they grasp on Chinese proficiency to be their saving grace.

Edited November 24, 2011 by suckling_pig

[ashtonxia]

I had a ridiculous conversation with a new teacher long long time ago. Here is the conversation.

NEW teacher : *talk in chinese which i dont understand*

Me: "Sir, i dont understand chinese."

NEW teacher: " SO WHAT U SPEAK? TAMIL AH? HAHAHAHAHA"

Me: *quite irritated* "i'm indonesian chinese." *smile sarcastically*

NEW teacher: "OH. So u speak Maaaa-lay ah?" *he purposely dragged the word malay there*

Me: *fire is on my head* "kau tak ada otak ah? Racist bastard. Tak ada otak siah. Oh, kau ada otak. Tapi, please, jangan letak itu otak di pantat. Letak di sini. *pointing my head* kaninabu." *i walk away*.

Translation: "u dont have brain is it? Racist bastard. Dont have brain siah. Oh, you have it. But u put it in ur buttock. But please, dont put it there,put inside here *pointing my head* kaninabu"

[Guest Lunarstone]

I'm Teochew. I can't speak any Teochew. I find it isn't necessary I guess.

[qedcwc]

I had a ridiculous conversation with a new teacher long long time ago. Here is the conversation.

NEW teacher : *talk in chinese which i dont understand*

Me: "Sir, i dont understand chinese."

NEW teacher: " SO WHAT U SPEAK? TAMIL AH? HAHAHAHAHA"

Me: *quite irritated* "i'm indonesian chinese." *smile sarcastically*

NEW teacher: "OH. So u speak Maaaa-lay ah?" *he purposely dragged the word malay there*

Me: *fire is on my head* "kau tak ada otak ah? Racist bastard. Tak ada otak siah. Oh, kau ada otak. Tapi, please, jangan letak itu otak di pantat. Letak di sini. *pointing my head* kaninabu." *i walk away*.

Translation: "u dont have brain is it? Racist bastard. Dont have brain siah. Oh, you have it. But u put it in ur buttock. But please, dont put it there,put inside here *pointing my head* kaninabu"

Chill chill...... the guy's a teacher after all....

But for me (if I'm Tionghoa Indonesian), I will reply: No, I speak Indonesian. How come u dun speak Malay ah? Ur NAAAAAtional language-leh. I ask u if u know what's the meaning of ur NAAAtional anthem, can u translate it to me on the spot onot? :twisted:

Edited November 24, 2011 by qedcwc

[qedcwc]

I'm Teochew. I can't speak any Teochew. I find it isn't necessary I guess.

Still necessary to understand Teochew operas and Teochew vulgarities though.... (am rambling)

[Guest Lunarstone]

Still necessary to understand Teochew operas and Teochew vulgarities though.... (am rambling)

I can't even understand any of the dialects! At best I can only manage a few Mandarin squeaks.

[qedcwc]

I can't even understand any of the dialects! At best I can only manage a few Mandarin squeaks.

I'm not exactly good at dialects other than Mandarin either, much to the wonder of my mum cos she speaks Hokkien and Teochew a lot with neighbours in my presence and occasionally in Hainan with her siblings. But having grown up in a town where Hokkien is spoken quite widely, you often catch a bit of Hokkien/Teochew vulgarities being thrown here and there to identify them, at least u know if someone scolds u wif a vulgarity.

I only started to understand a bit of Cantonese when I entered university as that's when my coursemates dig out HK dramas to watch during free time and I juz sit down to watch along with them and try to catch the language with the subtitles. Quite okay for me when it comes to singing Cantonese songs during karaoke sessions.

[Guest Lunarstone]

I'm not exactly good at dialects other than Mandarin either, much to the wonder of my mum cos she speaks Hokkien and Teochew a lot with neighbours in my presence and occasionally in Hainan with her siblings. But having grown up in a town where Hokkien is spoken quite widely, you often catch a bit of Hokkien/Teochew vulgarities being thrown here and there to identify them, at least u know if someone scolds u wif a vulgarity.

I only started to understand a bit of Cantonese when I entered university as that's when my coursemates dig out HK dramas to watch during free time and I juz sit down to watch along with them and try to catch the language with the subtitles. Quite okay for me when it comes to singing Cantonese songs during karaoke sessions.

Oh yeah! I'm better in Cantonese than Teochew suprisingly. I spend more time with that side of the family.

[greysuperhero]

Ohh, talking about dialect, I am really quite ashamed that I cannot speak dialect. I can understand a bit of cantonese, and an even smaller amount of hainanese, but cannot really grasp the language. I'm trying to brush up on Cantonese now, although it is taking a very very long time. haha.

[Raydric999]

Hmmm, I don't know if I could be catehorized in banana too or not. I speak english most of the time. I understand hokkien and mandarin BUT I don't really speak them with other people. Only with my family (ie: grandma, mom, aunties) and they will be mixed up with some additional local dialects.

When I was studying in KL, I had this experience in music store. The store attendant approached me and start asking me in mandarin. Well, I replied it in English and he replied in mandarin again. Well, the conversations were quite connected and I thought he was going to grab the CD I asked. But sadly he left me, and I never got my CD

I'm trying to improve my speaking, but.. English always comes out although I have had those mandarin replies on my head. Idk why.. -__-"

[dsd]

I like lao ah pek who speaks teochew. Wooooh, turns me on....!

[Blissfull]

I do speak chinese quite well but not dialects.

However, like many young people, I don't see the need to learn one. It's cultural loss.

[qedcwc]

Hmmm, I don't know if I could be catehorized in banana too or not. I speak english most of the time. I understand hokkien and mandarin BUT I don't really speak them with other people. Only with my family (ie: grandma, mom, aunties) and they will be mixed up with some additional local dialects.

When I was studying in KL, I had this experience in music store. The store attendant approached me and start asking me in mandarin. Well, I replied it in English and he replied in mandarin again. Well, the conversations were quite connected and I thought he was going to grab the CD I asked. But sadly he left me, and I never got my CD

I'm trying to improve my speaking, but.. English always comes out although I have had those mandarin replies on my head. Idk why.. -__-"

obviously, he looks up to u as a banana......

[abang]

I am NOT a banana although I go for GWM.

I was from the era when speaking English is 'ATAS'.

However due to our diverse neighbourhood, I understood different Chinese dialects too.

Learning Mandarin/Chinese language is NOT as difficult.

Diligence and patience are the 2 essential factors.

Unlike the boys from Barker Road, my classmates at Grange Road spoke Mandarin as and when we need.

Most of us from my batch scored distinctions in both languages.

[dreamer]

i've always found the emphasis of maintaining cultural attributes such as language and lifestyle, an indirect encouragement of segregation. somehow rather anti-intergration... think hairspray the movie/musical... KKK... etc. it's 2011... we should just "imagine" and live john lennon's dream. seriously. (speaking from post tipsyness)

i speak mandarin quite ok though despite not being chinese. lol. maybe if this whole staying true to your roots and keeping one's culture alive" thingamajig could involve cross-cultural learning exchanges, it'll be best. very pleasant... very racial harmony day... very nice.

Edited November 27, 2011 by dreamer

[jameshkh1209]

Listen carefully to the way mandarin is spoken casually amongst friends and family in Singapore, especially by youths. A typical conversation contains phrases like these: "EH, 你要不要现在去吃 LUNCH?" or "你做么(pronounced zoh-moh) tolerate 他的 bullshit?"

I use english predominantly and I have absolutely nothing against people who conscientiously choose to use mandarin instead. But when they have to mix and match like that, what does it say about their own proficiency? Do they not know that "lunch" is “午餐” or that "tolerate" is “忍耐”? Yet, they are the same people who will start accusing others of not staying "true" to their roots; being a banana etc etc. I echo what MomentoMori said: I'd rather be proficient in one than be stuck in language purgatory.

In my opinion, language is only a small fraction of what constitute culture as a whole. It serves a more practical purpose; communication. Hence, I stress so much on mastery because if you are not excellent in at least one language, it's as good as not having learnt any to begin with.

As cultures converge in our globalised and hyper-connected world, the notion that language serves as a barometer of how "culturally pure" someone is, is ridiculous and idiotic. Just because I use english most of the time, do I not subscribe to filial piety too? Just because I listen to angmoh songs and watch angmoh movies, do I not subscribe to the various superstitions and carry out traditions during chinese new year?

Our linguistic abilities doesn't determine our culture anymore than having Malay as the national language make us all Malays.

[Guest Kendall]

I use english predominantly and I have absolutely nothing against people who conscientiously choose to use mandarin instead. But when they have to mix and match like that, what does it say about their own proficiency? Do they not know that "lunch" is “午餐” or that "tolerate" is “忍耐”? Yet, they are the same people who will start accusing others of not staying "true" to their roots; being a banana etc etc. I echo what MomentoMori said: I'd rather be proficient in one than be stuck in language purgatory.

This is a common problem with many Sporeans.

Many claim to be english-speaking, and therefore monolingual. The fact is some can't even master english well with careless use of prepositions and sentence construction directly translated from chinese/malay . For example: I don't know if I could be catehorized in banana too or not. I speak english most of the time. I understand hokkien and mandarin BUT I don't really speak them with other people.

When one can't even master 1 language properly, what more being effectively bilingual?

Sometimes, I think the Spore education system is quite laughable.

[Guest Hmm]

Actually culture is based on linguistic That is how traditions are passed down whether orally or in text. Anyway we will one day have our own identity through Singlish and dominate the world. The Chinese should speak Singlish really. Who cares about Mandarin anyway? American is the best. We should learn it as a second language.

[xiandarkthorne]

Interesting that this topic is still drawing lots of response. I have just one thing to add.

Recently a relative who, shall we say isn't a banana, challenged me to think of a fruit to characterise people who call others 'banana.' At first, my response was simply to repeat what I'd said about racists before but then I got to thinking that, as a person who has a way with words, I should make an effort to do exactly as he requested, if only for the thousands of others like me who get called 'banana' and have no way to reply in a similar vein.

So I came up with something which I posted at my other 'meant for kids and family' FB identity. I am going to post it here in the hope that it will provide a suitable reply for all those who have been similarly labelled.

I call such people 'buah pong pong' or simply 'pong pong fruit' because

Gua bin koot sui sui

Lai bin seh moh

Sim tok tok.

For those who don't speak Penang or Baba Hokkien, the translation is

Smooth and beautiful on the outside

Hairy ('troublesome' in colloquial Hokkien slang) on the inside

Heart full of poison

And for the benefit of those who fell asleep during science class in primary school, the pong pong fruit resembles a beautiful green mango, but is extremely fibrous with no flesh to speak of and is so poisonous that it is also known as the Suicide Tree. For more information about the pong pong fruit, here is the Wiki link http://en.wikipedia....Cerbera_odollamhttp://en.wikipedia....Cerbera_odollam

Edited November 28, 2011 by xiandarkthorne

[Anderson]

I wonder.... I can reasonably speak, read and write Mandarin, even I wasn't schooled in a Chinese school, which doesn't make me fall under category 1. But then, I'm not exactly Western-centric either, as I still observe fundamental traditional practices, like celebrating Duanwu, Mid-Autumn, Winter Solstice, i.e. I still make a note to jot down all the festival dates on the Gregorian calendar every year for me to return home for a simple reunion with my family. I tend to avoid Western medicine, opt for TCM instead. I don't exactly speak English all the time. I even seldom watch ChannelNewsAsia, unless if I'm at the gym. Hardly touched Channel 5 unless there are movies I wanna catch. Back at home, where my house is able to receive Mediacorp signal, it's either Channel 8 or Malaysia's ntv7, 8TV and TV3 for me. So, is there a category 3 for me?

Yes, there is.

Malaysian pisang, those short little ones - outside yellow, inside also yellow!

[qedcwc]

Yes, there is.

Malaysian pisang, those short little ones - outside yellow, inside also yellow!

米蕉?

[thick.white]

I've often been called a coconut back at home in Australia. I have aboriginal heritage from my father, so I'm classed as black even though I look white. A coconut is a black Australian who chooses to live/immerse themself in the white culture of most of Australia. Brown on the outside, white inside.

I'm proud of both sides of my heritage and never see myself as black or white. Just an Australian. I hate it when I have to choose my race on gay sites when making a profile. I can't say where I fit.

To complicate matters, I speak English as my first language, and I'm fluent in Indonesian as a second language, and so my Malay is not bad either!!!

[mamemo]

I'm not exactly good at dialects other than Mandarin either, much to the wonder of my mum cos she speaks Hokkien and Teochew a lot with neighbours in my presence and occasionally in Hainan with her siblings. But having grown up in a town where Hokkien is spoken quite widely, you often catch a bit of Hokkien/Teochew vulgarities being thrown here and there to identify them, at least u know if someone scolds u wif a vulgarity.

I only started to understand a bit of Cantonese when I entered university as that's when my coursemates dig out HK dramas to watch during free time and I juz sit down to watch along with them and try to catch the language with the subtitles. Quite okay for me when it comes to singing Cantonese songs during karaoke sessions.

i thought this thread was about dicks! lol

i cant speak any dialect till around 15.

now i can say i am not bad at it. haha and do have a very good vocab for vulgarities.

but i do like to use english most of the time.

writing wise. there is always the smart phone to type and i copy it!

i can recognise word but cant remember how to write them...

banana much?

Edited November 29, 2011 by mamemo

[darkflame]

Digging up this thread.

Recently, I have somehow met a wider range of Singaporeans while living overseas.

Pretty ironic, kinda.

A few people couldn't fathom why I kept sticking to English/Singlish instead of moving the convo to Singdarin.

The smart ones will know I have a baba background, while the rest will only stop speculating on my 'banana-ness' after I reveal my background.

I suppose I'm the stereotypical Singaporean whom people overseas would expect to see i.e. speak horrible Mandarin with an 'angmoh' accent.

[xiandarkthorne]

Haiya. Worry for what? Banana better than pong pong ma. Banana inside sweet sweet one. Pong pong inside eat can die loh.

See, I can also speak like a pong pong but I don't do it if I can help it.

[hairy springroll]

Definitely not and no banana

[Guest]

Another one Banana, hated to be called one. another problem is my english still need a lot of improvement.  haha