You Don't Wanna Speak Mandarin?

[charvo87]

一个，两个在龟笑鳖无毛。

[derryfawne]

No, no. The madarin is not something that the communist come up with to bridge people of different chinese tgt. It is the 国民党政府 Idea, when they still in power before they retreated to taiwan. Only the simplified chinese characters 简体字 Is some funny atrocious thing come up after the communist graps power from the 国民党, to welcome the new era of a new china. That is why only china uses simplified and not hong kong, macau, taiwan and old immigrants from the old china to the other parts of the earth, like singapore indonesai,malaysia....

I may have confused that part a little.

I managed to learn two different Standard Chinese. I think one is the Beijing one that is actively promoted (which I was referring to in my long rant). And then there's the simplified one (which I assume is 'Mandarin'?).

Back then my Chinese tutor would teach us the former as 'Taiwanese Mandarin' and the latter as 'Singaporean Mandarin'.

Edited August 18, 2012 by derryfawne

[Guest Guest]

im singaporean but if i speak mandarin to singaporean , people will start to ask " are u local? "and give me one kind of look

[charvo87]

and also if a chinese cant speak mandarin means that he or she is a traitor, then all those who agree on this statement acty are also scolding their own ancestors, who are those that only speaks dialects and no mandarin at all.

A chinese that doesnt speaks mandarin, doesnt makes them less chinese, and those who speaks mandarin doesnt means they are more chinese.

[charvo87]

I may have confused that part a little.

I managed to learn two different Standard Chinese. I think one is the Beijing one that is actively promoted (which I was referring to in my long rant). And then there's the simplified one (which I assume is 'Mandarin'?).

Back then my Chinese tutor would teach us the former as 'Taiwanese Mandarin' and the latter as 'Singaporean Mandarin'.

ok so in traditional chinese characters 髪 And 發 Is two diferrent things. But in the simplified chinese charcters this two words become one single word 发. so in traditional chinese characters mostly u will know the meanings by a single word, while in simplified chinese u probably have to at another word before u can understand that word meaning.

Traditional chinese characters are the non-brackets and the brackets are the simplified chinese character髪＝頭髪（头发）。發＝發財（发财）。

才＝人才（人才）。纔＝剛纔（刚才）。

云＝人云亦云（人云亦云）。雲＝雨雲（雨云）。

So in traditional chinese sometimes u can know the meaning in a script or essay or anything written directly, but in simplified chinese u only can understand the meaning when it is written together with another word.

Traditional chinese chracter is slowly evolved from the early caveman word and became the word, so u can know why the word has come into this shape and what is the shape to do with the meaning oof this word, but simplified chinese is an altered one.

So for hong kong and macau they still used the traditional chinese word is because before they were colonize when they are still using the traditional one, and now though returning back to china they are still using it as a self-governance place. Taiwan is because guo ming dang din do any alteration, while the communist took ober from guo min dang they wanted a simplified chinese characters to welcome a new era of a new china and then they make the alteration, and now as china is big and getting stronger of course when people learn mandarin they will learn the simplified one.

[Guest guest]

I truely salute to those potato queen, try to act ang moh ,thought could enhance their social status, but in third party 's eye this is just a failure case of fake ang moh, cos they can't change their colour white ( suggestion: u may try the ici paint, that may bring u more nearer to the contect "white"). We emphasize here only mandarin bcos in singapore that's the only channel where u could learn the beauty of chinese via the learning environment in school , why u bring out yr ancestral dialect , except a smattering of spoken words u learn from yr parent , u don't have a conducive environment to learn in depth , if u were in hongkong , no doubt u must learn thru cantonese in order to appreciate the beauty of chinese . If u refuse to learn mandarin, don't use yr ancestral dialect as an excuse , just follow how Michael Jackson did: change his colour,but not under the pretext of sickness, but simply u hate yr skin that would be nice , then nobody would say u fake ang moh.

[Guest guest]

Oops! I got the idea from the movie: painted skin for the ici paint suggestion .

[Guest Wisdom]

Shame or not u guys decide.

People walk up to you a Chinese and speaks to you in mandarin and u ask them to speak english instead because u don't understand or speak Mandarin.

Next, people walk up to a Malay and speaks melayu and the Malay say sorry I don't know melayu, I speak English.

Last but not least, people walk up to an Indian and speak Tamil, the Indian replies in Tamil and says u can speak to me in mandarin too.

Even if ang mo learn Chinese, they wont abandon their English. So my point is, u have to learn both Chinese and English and not choose to abandon either one because YOU LIKE it. Its just like now majority of the people still discriminate gays, u won't go for an interview and fill up the application form with gay as a selection.

Although u have no choice of being a gay, you should be proud of that fact that you as a Chinese can speak mandarin when u need it.

[charvo87]

-guest-

說了那麽多，你還不也一様在賣洋腔。

[Guest guest]

所谓对牛弹琴, 不如对牛说牛活才有效

[Guest Wisdom]

And why do people here start talking about dialect???

Is dialect a language?

Show me how u write a word in dialect!

Know the difference between language and dialect firsndp lease and the topic is speaking mandarin.

[Guest guest]

I think Charvo87 and Derryfawn r not patato queen

The real queen is still in hiding

[Guest Guest]

EasyLim?

[Guest Guest]

The threadstarter was talking about jia kantang upper middle-class Singaporean Chinese refusing to speak Mandarin and acknowledge their cultural ethnic roots.

Instead, we have people successfully waylaying the entire thread, converting it into a discussion on dialect origins.

You really think those jia kantangs from ACS or SJI look down on Mandarin or the Chinese language because of dialect pride? LOL!

Are you kidding or deluded or both?

If you only want to speak English, by all means, but don't frown when people call you jia kantang, because it's true.

And please don't hide behind dialect pride or other such lame excuses.

Wanna be a fake ang moh, then be a fake ang moh lor.

[Raydric999]

Sometimes i wonder if the one who said the "upper middle class Singaporean who refuse to speak mandarin is [jia kantang]" only envies them. Well, not to mention he is envying the social status, but also envying that those Singaporean could speak better English than him (O.o)

Personally I think the choice of language what people want to use is their personal preference. If they choose to speak English, let them do so as long as it doesn't harm you (self ignorance to learn & fearing you'll lose if you are about to be compared with them, are not harm). why do you "care" so much?

[Guest Guest]

Sometimes i wonder if the one who said the "upper middle class Singaporean who refuse to speak mandarin is [jia kantang]" only envies them. Well, not to mention he is envying the social status, but also envying that those Singaporean could speak better English than him (O.o)

You can have a debate without making baseless personal attacks against others.

[darkflame]

I gave up on debating about this topic a long while ago.

Got into very severe drama with a bigot I met on a forum.

I'm just happy with speaking what I am comfortable at speaking now.

Chinese is a nice language to speak but it should not be tied to your ethnicity or ancestral origins etc.

[gstc82]

im singaporean but if i speak mandarin to singaporean , people will start to ask " are u local? "and give me one kind of look

when I speak mandarin to fellow Singaporeans, they don't ask "are u local" as our Singapore mandarin has the local twang. Our mandarin don't sound Taiwanese, Beijing or hk. Even those whose mandarin is super don't sound like they are from china. Anyway, some Singaporeans tot I am from Japan. BUT if u are in Hong Kong, I speak English as i dont speak cantonese and not mandarin to anyone be it Macdonald, 711, auntie at cafe and my office. Edited August 19, 2012 by gstc82

[kee_hsiao]

ooooo!!! I like to jiak kantang!!! love French fries and mashed potatoes!!! ROFL

anyway, the argument of languages is truly getting heated. but whatever the case is, those who are picking up mandarin now, all the best. it ain't an easy language coz unlike english, it cannot be pronounced off the characters that easily. the 有边读边，无边读中间 don't always work. hahahaha

[abang]

This topic has got off its tangent.

The ability to speak in any language is an ASSET.

A child picks up learning skills by the time he turns 3.

The golden years is between 3 and 7.

Why is Chinese Language, the subject, one of the most dislike among Singaporeans?

Well, it is the way the subject is taught.

Where is the fun when all you know is "copy this phrase, 20 x, tomorrow got Ting-xie. (spelling test)"

What fun is there where you are "punished" to reiterate things over and over again?

Whether your preferred choice of language is English or otherwise,

I would like to appeal to the younger BW forum users here:

Whether you are a potato (queen), banana or by any other nomenclature,

Whether it is CL2, NL2 or TL2, excel in them.

The language is your link to your heritage.

Think.. how would you like to recite a Tang poem or your pantun in any other language, rather than its original form?

[derryfawne]

And why do people here start talking about dialect???

Is dialect a language?

Show me how u write a word in dialect!

Know the difference between language and dialect firsndp lease and the topic is speaking mandarin.

http://en.wikipedia....itten_Cantonese

http://en.wikipedia....Written_Hokkien

And a language is merely a dialect with a well-developed standardization. Granted, Mandarin is more well-developed and it definitely gives you better access to Chinese culture than a dialect like Hokkien or Cantonese could hope to, I'll give you that.

But it's ignorant to assume that every Chinese was raised to be proficient in Mandarin. Or to assume that the moretive thereof is always of white supremacy.

And I'm not saying that I'm bad at Mandarin because I have a dialect pride either. I'm merely saying that, for most of my life, Hokkien (and to some other people in my community, Teochew) serves as the primary way of communicating between Chinese in my community. If we walk down to a street and bump into a stranger of any Chinese descent, the first line that comes out of our mouth is Hokkien. It's just a natural thing to do... there was never an expectation to be able to speak good Mandarin until the turn of the century.

In Thailand, every ethnic Chinese (bar the elderlies) converses in Thai simply because the culture has assimiliated and the condition of the community has put a stronger emphasis on Thai language over Mandarin. I can go on and the same would be true with many other Chinese descents living in various South East Asian countries.

Singapore is slightly different because the government has promoted the use of Mandarin to replace dialects through Speak Mandarin Campaign as far back as late 1970s. And yes, because of that, there's an expectation that most Singaporean Chinese have good conversational Mandarin. No one is saying that Mandarin should be scrapped as a method of communication between Chinese. It should continue to be promoted as a common language for Chinese, yes. In fact, I would be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't view that the ability to speak Mandarin can only be a good asset (that unfortunately not everyone possess the ability of... and it's our own loss, really). But the statement "all Chinese speaks Mandarin" is ignorant and erroneous, that's all I'm saying.

I don't even want to go into how English is the medium of instruction in schools, and has created an environment that makes English a comfortable lingua franca for official communication.

Edited August 19, 2012 by derryfawne

[Guest guest]

Raydric999

With so much of explanation u still coundt get the fact right:

1)upper middle class singaporean n

ot equal to potato queen

2)we emphasize the importance of chinese does not mean we speak english poorly

3)if all upper middle class singaporean r potato queen then singapore must be a mess

4)wake up! U r not living in the colonial era where yr parent trying hard to boot licking the caucasian so to get better career prospect

5)most of potato queen come from upper middle class family bcos they carry their parent's kantang munching behavior ,we r here just to remind them of their roots. is there any reason for us to envy

them?

6)while u r too carried away with yr kantang

munching, does not mean in third party's eye u

looks class, pls wake up from yr state of disilusion

7)trust me, when chinese has its monetary value u will throw yr kantang for sure

[Guest guest]

Why people said mandarin not easy to learn? that's bull shit, they just want to get easy way out of it. If u don't love the language , how u possibly get hold of it. since chinese not easy to learn, does that mean all chinese from China are genius ?

[GoodBoyRan]

I understand that speaking your mother's tongue is desirable for a variety of reasons, heritage or whatever. But I think that speaking a certain language (Mandarin or otherwise) in the company of other people who obviously does not understand that language is blatantly rude and disrespectful (I'm assuming common sense would guide your discretion). It doesn't matter if you're not saying anything bad, or even relevant to that person at all, but the fact is that they do not know that and it leaves room to leave a bad impression.

Now it's understandable if you genuinely have a poor command of the lingua franca and aren't able to express yourself in any other tongue, but if everyone in your group obviously understands English, how do you think it'll look to non-Mandarin/whatever language-speaking people if two or three of you in the group starts speaking in another language that obviously excludes them, or worse, follow it by hysterical fits of laughter...and when they ask you what you guys were talking about, you brush it off saying 'Nah, it's nothing' with a smirk on your face.

[warlock88]

not sure if people are chinese speaking or not.. so i just use english nowadays. i speak chinese frequently to close friends though.

[derryfawne]

Why people said mandarin not easy to learn? that's bull shit, they just want to get easy way out of it. If u don't love the language , how u possibly get hold of it. since chinese not easy to learn, does that mean all chinese from China are genius ?

Don't pretend like all language has the same type of complexity. A language that shares similar language system is easier to cross into each other. For instance, it's easier for a Korean to pick up Japanese than someone who's more accustomed to the alphabet system could.

Picking up Mandarin requires us to reboot our conception of language altogether. Unlike the alphabets, the combination of strokes do not clue you on how a certain character is supposed to sound like when read. The semantic skills required is different from associating combination of letters with meaning, because the written system is also divorced from the phonetic system (hanyu pinyin).

Of course, a PRC raised with that language conception is already accustomed with that language system and will have much less difficulty. But in reverse, many PRC also has to work twice harder if they want to pick up English... and that despite, I observe their English proficiency remains limited. It doesn't mean anyone is smarter, it only means there are significant differences in language system.

Edited August 19, 2012 by derryfawne

[The.Intrv.]

What do we have here, an Ah Tiong TS feeding on the negative emotions of others?

Edited August 19, 2012 by The.Intrv.

[charvo87]

所谓对牛弹琴, 不如对牛说牛活才有效

原来你會說牛語。

[Cube3]

What if get mistaken as PRC...scary?

Edited August 19, 2012 by Cube3

[Guest Singland]

'It is ok to speak English but DON'T SLANT and acted like you were borned in western place or ABC.

[Guest Sgboy]

Why people said mandarin not easy to learn? that's bull shit, they just want to get easy way out of it. If u don't love the language , how u possibly get hold of it. since chinese not easy to learn, does that mean all chinese from China are genius ?

All abt the mindset , most of the Singaporean able to speak mandarin but they didnt wan cause they think speak mandarin very low class and English , Japanese , Korean are high class language

[Guest Passby]

when I speak mandarin to fellow Singaporeans, they don't ask "are u local" as our Singapore mandarin has the local twang. Our mandarin don't sound Taiwanese, Beijing or hk. Even those whose mandarin is super don't sound like they are from china. Anyway, some Singaporeans tot I am from Japan. BUT if u are in Hong Kong, I speak English as i dont speak cantonese and not mandarin to anyone be it Macdonald, 711, auntie at cafe and my office.

Oh some of singaporens also though I'm From japan and Korea.. Haha nothing to do with this topic right ..haizzz idiot always find chance to advertise themselves lol

[doncoin]

I was kind of picked on in school when I was growing up because of the way I speak Mandarin. (Mom's from Taiwan, hence the accent). I used to take part in those Mandarin speaking contests, story telling things etc. and won some prizes for them. Anyway, the constant picking on, to the point of almost bullying somewhat got me to shut my mouth and not converse in mandarin and my interest in the language and culture waned as a result.

I speak Mandarin to my mother and that is about it. Even my sister and i converse in English. However, the irony is that my mastery of Mandarin actually improved during the years living in NYC as the ones I hang out with are Taiwanese. Again, we reached to a point where we switched effectively to English and Mandarin.

[Guest Guest]

Chelsea, I'm totally with you. So many local people have a language inferiority complex. I happened to be educated abroad from young, so speak English indistinguishably from a native. I even had "Mandarin" lessons from Beijing teachers. How many times have I heard snide remarks from local people about the way I talk. Would they say that about an angmo or PRC? Where is the logic. GROW UP!

[qedcwc]

Tracing back the ethnic Chinese's history in Malaysia, before Mandarin became popularized, Teochews, Hainanese, Cantonese, Hokkiens and other dialect groups in Malaysia converse with each other in Malay.

Back in school, which was Malaysian national school, even when the teacher was ethnic Chinese (except for Chinese language teacher of course), we spoke to him/her in Bahasa Malaysia on almost every occasion, if not English, unless it was in private capacities where we use Mandarin or Hokkien.

Think I read lately that Cantonese has been defined as a language by UNESCO.

[doncoin]

One of the interesting things I remember growing up and speaking mandarin is that my mother, would refer to going to the market as 菜市场 whereas in school I was taught going to pasar.

[Slynn]

@chelseasian Sorry to hear that your schoolmates actually picked on you just because you conversed in mandarin, because that's really retarded of them. I want to speak mandarin as fluently too TwT (not that my mandarin is bad though. ahah)

I find it nice to speak to Taiwanese because the differences between the china/taiwan Chinese language itself are really interesting, and I actually love Traditional Chinese more than simplified ones. (No offense PRCs. Personal preference) Perhaps because i grew up on Hong Kong movies and stuff XD

Nowadays some people gets really hostile towards PRC because of various incidents, so I guess using the language is associated much more negatively now. Just my thought :/

[Guest Guest]

The PRCs in Singapore are of the barbarian breed, and rightly deserve to be looked down upon.

Just look at their atrocious manners and obnoxious attitude, need one say more?

[Guest guest]

Well, another display of human nature: stereotype of another group of people to a lowly position so to bring out yrself of different level.

[Steve5380]

I am an American Caucasian but I speak a little Mandarin. I also understand that a chinese body doesn't have a distinctive gene that needs Mandarin to communicate. I must say that Mandarin has a smart structure, but it is spoken with very limited resources of speech. Too much redundancy in the meaning of words (sylabes) and too subtile differences between sounds. The need for accents reflects this overuse. The written language is more specific, but having to identify thousands of symbols makes it highly impractical. I have never typed in Mandarin, but I imagine that it must be a nightmare. Computers handle Mandarin perfectly well, but it is the interface between human and machine that is the problem.

Why not take the opportunity of a new millenium and create a new Chinese language that has the convenience of the traditional occidental languages? And, bad feelings aside, why not take English as this new language?

Edited August 22, 2012 by Steve5380

[qedcwc]

Why not take the opportunity of a new millenium and create a new Chinese language that has the convenience of the traditional occidental languages? And, bad feelings aside, why not take English as this new language?

The Chinese language stands out as a unique language due to its nature of conveying a message primarily through the appearance of its characters rather than differences in pronunciation. Oral speeches require a listener to be rather attentive to understand the message in its context.

I don't quite get the last part of your posting on occidental languages, but just fyi, the Chinese language, like any other language, has absorbed quite a number of foreign terms, such as 嘻哈 (xī hā) - hip hop, 脱口秀 (tuō kǒu xiù) - talkshow, 麦克风 (mài kè fēng) - microphone, etc.

[Steve5380]

The Chinese language stands out as a unique language due to its nature of conveying a message primarily through the appearance of its characters rather than differences in pronunciation. Oral speeches require a listener to be rather attentive to understand the message in its context.

I don't quite get the last part of your posting on occidental languages, but just fyi, the Chinese language, like any other language, has absorbed quite a number of foreign terms, such as 嘻哈 (xī hā) - hip hop, 脱口秀 (tuō kǒu xiù) - talkshow, 麦克风 (mài kè fēng) - microphone, etc.

What I want to say, in a more direct way, is that Taiwan, PRC should take example of Singapore embracing English as their official language. This has helped its economy surge, and helps its population when going overseas by being able to easily communicate. And this could extend to the other Asian languages, some of them equally criptic. There is no need to abandon Mandarin, but it seems practical to have English as the primary, official language.

[qedcwc]

What I want to say, in a more direct way, is that Taiwan, PRC should take example of Singapore embracing English as their official language. This has helped its economy surge, and helps its population when going overseas by being able to easily communicate. And this could extend to the other Asian languages, some of them equally criptic. There is no need to abandon Mandarin, but it seems practical to have English as the primary, official language.

That would be really boring, for me, at least. I will not bother to think of uniformity when I can have diversity.

Taiwan's economy certainly did not surge on English alone in the past. Neither did Japan nor South Korea. There are a lot of other contributing factors than just usage of one particular language.

[Guest Guest]

What I want to say, in a more direct way, is that Taiwan, PRC should take example of Singapore embracing English as their official language. This has helped its economy surge, and helps its population when going overseas by being able to easily communicate. And this could extend to the other Asian languages, some of them equally criptic. There is no need to abandon Mandarin, but it seems practical to have English as the primary, official language.

That's even worse, it'll just make them end up like Singaporeans in a limbo of mastering NEITHER of the two languages. Not only that, they will also view their own language(s) as "backward" , "old-fashioned" etc so they don't bother to learn it.

Most Singaporeans I know have a very poor command of Mandarin and just average command of English. Even those who can't speak Mandarin, those who claimed English as their "first language" can't speak English fluently. That's funny, since English is the only language that he/she can speak, what's with the low degree of fluency? As a Filipino, we are very proud of our national language Tagalog and we can speak, read and write very fluently, but at the same time, we are very fluent in English too. Even the Filipino maids working here, who are uneducated and came from small villages can speak better English than some of the Singaporean aunties/uncles.

[gstc82]

Yo "guest" if the uneducated citizens staying in small village can speak "better" englIsh than good on you as it shows the success of your education system. You must be so proud. Are you working in Singapore now?

[Guest Guest]

Yo "guest" if the uneducated citizens staying in small village can speak "better" englIsh than good on you as it shows the success of your education system. You must be so proud. Are you working in Singapore now?

First of all, it's not "staying", it should be "living" as stay means to remain or to live in a certain place for a short period of time. This is one of commom grammatical errors made by lots of Singaporean. As if it's not pissing me off enough when the first thing gays I knew online ask me is where do I live and what am I looking for, they exacerbate it by using bad english like "Where u stay? Seek?" Secondly, it's not "than" but "then". Lastly, it's not MY education system, it's my country's education system.

I can sense sarcasm in your post. I am merely stating my opinion and facts. Do you need to be so averse towards me? And yes I'm working now here in Singapore.

[subarucap]

actually are we talking about preservation of a culture?

or pervasiveness of a culture here?

taking the poster's original post... how do you then make sense of the common language used in singapore in our grandparents time? even chinese migrants (or just about anyone else who decided to stay and live here) spoke malay in singapore at that time.

would it be better that everyone in the planet speak a common language rather than every country speak their own language?

are we arguing which language is better?

are we arguing why one language should be favoured over another?

...

hurh?

Edited August 22, 2012 by subarucap

[Guest guest]

The core problem is just simple : except for the sentimental and self rightious ones, the practical ones will see whether the language used has its monetary value. This trait especially embedded in the gene of chinese potato queen.

[Guest guest]

Steve 5380

To know which language is better simply to learn both language in same pace , and I found chinese language far more beautiful than english .

[gstc82]

First of all, it's not "staying", it should be "living" as stay means to remain or to live in a certain place for a short period of time. This is one of commom grammatical errors made by lots of Singaporean. As if it's not pissing me off enough when the first thing gays I knew online ask me is where do I live and what am I looking for, they exacerbate it by using bad english like "Where u stay? Seek?" Secondly, it's not "than" but "then". Lastly, it's not MY education system, it's my country's education system.

I can sense sarcasm in your post. I am merely stating my opinion and facts. Do you need to be so averse towards me? And yes I'm working now here in Singapore.

Orh.