Discussion On Being Gay & Christian (Compiled)

[Guest Guest]

http://thebigslice.org/spiritual-nutrition-climbing-the-stairway-to-a-better-world/

"My questioning of the traditional Christian religious story evolved with my experience of life’s vicissitudes, many self-induced, others seemingly out of the ether. One particular event shook me awake from my religious slumber. It was the death of my 29-year-old, pregnant sister in 1971. There was no earthly explanation for a good God after that event. And while the traditional, “we can’t understand God’s plan, so we must have faith”, works for some philosophically, in my family’s time of crisis, it was virtually useless.

After years of wandering my own desert, I arrived back at Christianity’s door with a new-found tolerance for its ambiguities. But my need to reconcile at least some of the glaringly obvious persisted.

I don’t know when, but I began to deconstruct the religious stories that represented my world for so many years. In that period, I came across the fact that the four gospels in the New Testament were selected out of several dozen. And the others had been condemned as heresy and banned.

In 1945, copies of these heretical gospels were found in a stone jar in an area of Upper Egypt called Nag Hammadi. I purchased the book titled The Nag Hammadi Scriptures and began to read. During this process I got a glimpse of the territory the official Christian religious map had deemed heretical and banned.

Here, it’s not my intention to compare these gospels to prove which one is true or false. As I mentioned before, I’m not a Biblical scholar. My point is that these books present stories about the same man during the same time that differ dramatically – not only on his teachings but also on the so-called facts.

This created a gaping hole in the map that had represented the Christian territory for me all my life. It brought home the point in a way that made it impossible for me to accept the traditional Christian story at face value.

I now see that story as one simulation of a reality, which may or may not have existed. In fact, it might even be a fourth level simulation: a simulation of a reality that doesn’t exist where even the attempts to validate it are artificial. (Think of the many arguments that use contradictory Biblical facts to justify the Bible.)

So why haven’t I abandoned the whole story? Why do I consider myself to be a secular Christian agnostic? First and foremost, I was born into the Christian religion. And secondly, because the Christian story represents universal human truths, as do so many other religions of the world.

So what? Because I think it points to why religions in general and Christianity in particular are getting such a bad rap today in America. And it’s this: Many believers are still confusing the map with the territory.

The map is a representation of some of the most inspiring truths available to humankind. But much of organized religion promotes worship of the map. And worshipping the map is like eating the menu in a fine restaurant. It’ll temporarily satisfy your hunger but it won’t be a very nutritious.

In today’s complex world, we need the spiritual nutrition found in the universal human truths are found in the real territory religious maps are intended to represent. Whether its Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or Hinduism these truths are represented in their maps.

When we move from asking God’s forgiveness for breaking the rules to forgiving ourselves for our lapses in our treatment of other human beings, we might learn the compassion upon which every religion is based. And in the process we might create a better world.

Robert De Filippis

Ps. For those of you who cannot abide same-sex marriage, please read the last paragraph again.

[Steve5380]

Guest, the article you quoted is very good.   I also think that to be a secular Christian (to be inspired by the philosophy of Christ, without being a believer in his divinity) is a good choice. One of several equally good choices.

[Guest Guest]

"Finally...All of it Explained in Simple Terms

Read this

and you will understand

everything you’ve ever

needed to know.

The Divine Purpose is for Life to be used by Divinity to express Divinity in order that Divinity may experience Divinity is all of its aspects.

In short, God is using Life in order to experience Itself.

Divinity can be experienced only through the expression of it. Divinity can be imagined, it can be thought about, and it can be held in Awareness by the Soul, but until it is expressed, it is merely a concept; unless it is expressed, it cannot be experienced.

Here, then, is the Soul’s Knowing: Until you express Divinity you cannot experience Divinity.

You can talk about Love, you can imagine Love, you can think about Love, you can hold Love as an idea conceptually,

but until you express it, you cannot experience it.

You can talk about Compassion, you can imagine Compassion, you can think about Compassion, you can hold Compassion as an idea conceptually, but until you express it, you cannot experience it.

You can talk about Understanding, you can imagine Understanding, you can think about Understanding, you can hold Understanding as an idea conceptually, but until you express it, you cannot experience it.

You can talk about Forgiveness, you can imagine Forgiveness, you can think about Forgiveness, you can hold Forgiveness as an idea conceptually, but until you express it, you cannot experience it.

Divinity is all of these things, and much more. It is Patience and Kindness, Goodness and Mercy, Acceptance and Forbearance, Wisdom and Clarity, Gentleness and Beauty, Selflessness and Nobility, Benevolence and Generosity. And yes, much, much more.

You can imagine all of these things, you can think about all of these things, you can hold all of these things as ideas conceptually, but until you express all of these things in you, through you, as you, you have not experienced Divinity.

And you will never have an opportunity to experience these things unless Life provides you with such an opportunity. This is what Life is doing every day. Indeed, this is the purpose of Life Itself.

Therefore, when Life brings you challenges, difficulties, and unique conditions, situations, and circumstances that are ideally suited to bring out the best in you, “judge not, and neither condemn,” but be a Light unto the darkness, that you might know Who You Really Are—and that all those whose lives you touch might know who they are as well, by the light of your example.

While the idea that “God uses Life to know Godself” is surely not new, why God works this way may very well be something you’d like to know more about. So here is the explanation.

God cannot experience all that God is within the Spiritual Realm alone, because in that realm there is nothing that God is not.

The Realm of the Spiritual is the place where God is all there is, where Love is all there is, where Perfection is all there is. It’s a wonderful place, because there is nothing but Divinity. It is, in short, what you would call heaven. There is, however, this particular reality: There is nothing that God is not. And in the absence of what God is not, what God is . . . is not experienceable.

The same is true about you. You cannot experience what you are except in the presence of What You Are Not. Nor is anything able to be experienced unless it is in a Contextual Field that includes its opposite.

The light cannot be experienced without the darkness. “Up” has no meaning in experience without “down.” “Fast” is simply a term, a word having no meaning whatsoever without “slow.”

Only in the presence of the thing called “small” can the thing called “big” be experienced. We can say that something is “big,” we can imagine that something is “big,” we can conceptualize something as being “big,” but in the absence of something that is “small,” “big” cannot be experienced.

Likewise, in the absence of something “finite,” “infinity” cannot be experienced. Put into theological terms, we can know “Divinity” conceptually, but we cannot know it experientially.

Therefore, all the people and events of your life—now or in the past—which seem to be “at odds” with who you are and what you choose to experience, are simply gifts from the highest source, created for you and brought to you through the collaborative process of co-creating souls, allowing you to find yourself in a Contextual Field within which the fullest experience of Who You Really Are becomes possible.

Or, as it was so wonderfully stated by The Divine in Conversations with God . . .

I have sent you nothing but angels.

Now there’s a statement to remember. It was said here that your eternal Sacred Journey has a purpose, and it does indeed. It is a purpose established by Divinity Itself.

The Divine Purpose is to expand the Reality of God.

In simple terms (and these are simple terms), God is growing—becoming more of Itself—through the process called Life. God IS this process.

God is both the Process of Life Itself . . . and the result of it. Thus, God is The Creator and The Created. The Alpha and the Omega. The Beginning and The End. The Unmoved Mover. The Unwatched Watcher.

In not so simple terms, God cannot “grow” because everything that God ever was, is now, or ever will be, Is Now. There is no Time and there is no Space. Therefore, there is no time in which to grow, and no space into which to grow. The Cycle of Life is occurring simultaneously everywhere.

What the human Mind wants to call God’s “growth” is merely God experiencing more and more of

Itself as the Individuations of God experience more and more of themselves. This is called Evolution.

This was accomplished by The Whole dividing Itself (not to be confused with separating Itself) from Itself, re-creating Itself in smaller and finite form.

No finite form, by the very reason of its being finite, could hold the infinite consciousness, awareness, and experience of The Whole, yet each individuated form was designed uniquely to reflect a particular aspect of Divinity Itself.

Putting all these aspects together again, as one puts the pieces of a puzzle together, produces a picture of what all the pieces create. Namely: God.

All the pieces are part of the picture, and no piece is less a part of the picture than any other.

Now some forms of Life have been endowed with a level of Essential Essence (the raw energy from which everything springs) sufficient to produce the possibility of that Essence knowing Itself. This is the quality in certain living things that is called Self-Consciousness.

Human Life (and, we suspect with good reason, Life elsewhere in the Universe) was designed in such a way that what we call “expansion” of Consciousness and Experience is possible.

In fact, human Consciousness can expand even to a point where it once again knows itself as part of The Whole. Jesus, for instance, said: “I and the Father are one.” He understood his relationship to God perfectly. He

understood that the picture which the puzzle created was not Complete without him. He was The Completion. As are we all.

A Soul Knowing: God is both the Process of Life Itself

and the Result of that Process. As are we all.

Take one piece of the puzzle away and the picture is not Complete. The experience of becoming fully Self Consciousness occurs through a process by which the Individuated Aspect does not grow, actually, but simply becomes more and more aware that it does not have to grow, but truly is, in its individuated form, Divinity Itself. The individual piece recognizes itself as The Puzzle

Itself, simply divided.

The spectacular physiological, psychological, and theological transition into that higher level of Self-Awareness occurs only once in the epochal history of every sentient species in the cosmos—and this is precisely what is happening within the human race right now.

================================

END NOTE:

THE 25 CORE MESSAGES of Conversations with God are newly and fully explored, explained, and expanded under one cover in the 2013 text "What God Said," from Berkley Books. You can explore it here:

www.WhatGodSaidbook.com

The statement above is taken directly from "The Only Thing That Matters," from Emnin Books, distributed by Hay House.

These two books are highly recommended reading for anyone wishing to delve deeply into a new theology for humanity.

It is important to understand that a “theology” is not a religion. No one is suggesting that Conversations with God become a new religion. The word theology is defined as “the study of the nature of God.” That is precisely what the dialogue in CWG is.

I was once asked on a national television program if I could articulate God's message to the world in simple terms. I replied, “Yes. I can give it to you in five words.” The host blinked twice, then said, “Okay then. Ladies and gentlemen, God's message to the world, in five words, from Neale Donald Walsch...”

And I said...

You’ve got me all wrong.

If you have a deep yearning to stop getting God all wrong, I urge you to explore the concepts and principles in Conversations with God—not the least important of which is the New Gospel: We Are All One. Ours is not a better way, ours is merely another way."

https://www.facebook.com/NealeDonaldWalsch/posts/10151748861007344

[Steve5380]

"Finally...All of it Explained in Simple Terms

Read this

and you will understand

everything you’ve ever

needed to know.

 

Guest,... baloney!

 

Your post is nothing but idle chatter.   It does not take much marijuana to start writing like that.

 

Why you take advantage of a forum to try to push religious books?

Edited November 28, 2013 by Steve5380

[Guest Guest]

Just to share a book that has open my mind on how wrong religions have been.

I don't see it as a religious book though.

I shared my experience in some of the earliest posts on how I was a catholic went through a process of finding the meaning of life. And I found it outside the church / my faith.

This book opens my mind. It answers a lot of the things that I find ridiculous in the church teaching.

The post is written by the author. I find it reflects the gist of what have inspired me and change my spiritual life.

I don't believe in religion. But I believe in a higher power but not a God in a conventional sense like what the churches preach.

Not trying to promote the book cos i don't gain for the book sales. Just want to share maybe someone will benefit from it. Or trigger more discussions. I always enjoy discussion that open my mind and challenge my belief. Cos I believe there is always something that I am not aware of. I therefore keep on learning.

I have gone through the stages from fervent catholic to an atheist, then started exploring some spiritual related topics. I don't know what will I learn or discover next, but it's alright this is life, nothing is certain. I will just enjoy the ride.

[Guest guest]

As human beings, if we can't show basic kindness and courtesy, how can we understand what is beyond this life time! Every religion , every culture also has its own shortcomings. Just be open minded and notice. Absorb what is beneficial, put aside what is irrelevant. Life is short, has too many important things to deal with, instead of frivilous debates. If u do good, u won't feel consciously or subconsciously guilty, so u will not have mental torment which is worse than physical torment. Then life will be happier. Mindset, attitudes, personality, .....some time even though a religion is more organised and has more "educated" followers, it does not mean that its teachings are always right.

[Steve5380]

As human beings, if we can't show basic kindness and courtesy, how can we understand what is beyond this life time! Every religion , every culture also has its own shortcomings. Just be open minded and notice. Absorb what is beneficial, put aside what is irrelevant. Life is short, has too many important things to deal with, instead of frivilous debates. If u do good, u won't feel consciously or subconsciously guilty, so u will not have mental torment which is worse than physical torment. Then life will be happier. Mindset, attitudes, personality, .....some time even though a religion is more organised and has more "educated" followers, it does not mean that its teachings are always right.

 

Oh guest, it is perfectly clear.  You found a book that you like.  But...  how you explain what you wrote: 

 

"Read this and you will understand everything you’ve ever needed to know."

 

Doesn't this sound like the preaching of every organized religion?  "Read the Bible and you will understand everything... etc"?

 

Take for example one of the outbursts of this author you like:

 

"The Realm of the Spiritual is the place where God is all there is, where Love is all there is, where Perfection is all there is. It’s a wonderful place, because there is nothing but Divinity. It is, in short, what you would call heaven. There is, however, this particular reality: There is nothing that God is not. And in the absence of what God is not, what God is . . . is not experienceable. "

 

HOW IN HEAVENS does he know all of that?  Was he invited to take a tour of the "Realm of Spiritual" and then write about it?  For the best of me, I can't believe anything but that it is the work of his imagination.  Maybe he was high on drugs when he thought that?   What he wrote is equivalent to saying that we cannot know what it is to breathe because we never stop breathing,  or what it is to have our heart stop, because our heart is always beating, etc.  Is this supposed to be "profound"?

[Guest Guest]

Sorry for the misunderstanding..let me clarify again the entire post is quoted from the author.. Even the first line wasn't from me. If u click the appended link at the end of that entry you will see it. That's why I started with double quote..sorry for the confusion.

To answer your second part question, the author claimed he received divine message.

"Neale Donald Walsch had his first "conversation with God" in 1992, when at a particularly low point in his life he scribbled down an angry letter to God -- and received what he believed was a divine answer. As questions occurred to him, more answers came to him and he wrote them all down in a process he describes as "exactly like dictation." His best-selling "Conversations With God" books have been translated into 27 different languages. He talked with Beliefnet about his 2002 book, "The New Revelations."

http://www.beliefnet.com/Wellness/2002/11/Time-For-A-New-Spirituality.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neale_Donald_Walsch

You may feel I am an idiot who believe in this kind of claim without any scientific proof. Haha I just couldn't help but feel resonant with it. It is like falling in love, if u have experienced it, you have no idea why you r so attracted to a particular person. We don't need to wait for scientific proof to convince us we are in love. Strange but, we don't need everything to be proven to live a happy life. Haha Maybe it is just my personality for being more sensitive to my feeling and intuition and feeling more emotional.

No I am not here to convert anyone. As I mentioned just to share. And it is perfectly ok for everyone to have their own belief. I don't need anyone else approval or agreement to believe in something. As long as what I believe in bring happiness to me and bring no harm to other people. And I am open to change or to be convinced my belief is wrong.

I am wondering if someone believe everything on science, and believe nothing that is not scientific proven..this kind of reasoning isn't it similar to Christians who believe nothing else but the bible.

Bearing in mind that science is a process of discovery and breakthrough. What we know now, might not be valid any time later.

And also, scientific works are carried out by scientists working for institutions which mostly receive grants from companies to conduct research. Wouldn't they sponsor those research which are best to their benefits and profits. Would they not withhold any research findings that will harm their interest even though the disclosure of thefindings will benefit the humanity.

I posted on another thread of a video on interview of Russell brand. I kind of agree with him on the statement " anything we r describing through science we r describing through the prism of the five limited senses."

It is limited because senses can only detect certain range of frequency. This is a scientific claim.

http://www.blowingwind.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=45875

Btw I am the guest posted entry#432 too.

[Guest Guest]

What he wrote is equivalent to saying that we cannot know what it is to breathe because we never stop breathing, or what it is to have our heart stop, because our heart is always beating, etc. Is this supposed to be "profound"?

I dont think if what u gave is a good comparison to understand the point. Cos the fact that we can hold our breath and experience what will happen to us.

Let me see if I can try to explain..it requiries a bit of philosophical thinking..

Ok let say in a world where there is only happiness. Ppl living there won't know they are living in a state of happiness because that is exactly what they are.

Hmmm this reminds me of the story of Buddha, he was protected from the reality of suffering and didn't know about it until he see it for the first time.

Or another example if there is only black in the world. It's presence won't be felt or noticed until another color appears to show the contrast.

Sorry I am not articulate enough...

[Steve5380]

Sorry for the misunderstanding..let me clarify again the entire post is quoted from the author.. Even the first line wasn't from me. If u click the appended link at the end of that entry you will see it. That's why I started with double quote..sorry for the confusion.

To answer your second part question, the author claimed he received divine message.

 

Guest, it was my misunderstanding.  I didn't go to the webpage you posted.  Now I see and follow who this author is.  Very impressive how many followers he has. 

 

No, I don't think you are an idiot who believes this kind of claim.  Instead, I think that his claims are very interesting.  A good food for thought.

 

However, I cannot believe in any of this because it contradicts one of my principles:  humans and Gods are too far apart to be able to communicate with one another.  It is like we are having a conversation with bacteria in our guts,  only that the difference between humans and Gods must be many orders of magnitude bigger than the difference between humans and bacteria.

[Steve5380]

I dont think if what u gave is a good comparison to understand the point. Cos the fact that we can hold our breath and experience what will happen to us.

Let me see if I can try to explain..it requiries a bit of philosophical thinking..

Ok let say in a world where there is only happiness. Ppl living there won't know they are living in a state of happiness because that is exactly what they are.

Hmmm this reminds me of the story of Buddha, he was protected from the reality of suffering and didn't know about it until he see it for the first time.

Or another example if there is only black in the world. It's presence won't be felt or noticed until another color appears to show the contrast.

Sorry I am not articulate enough...

 

Guest, you are articulate and I understand you quite well.    The idea seems to be that in order to perceive something, we need to experience a change in it or another something that contrasts with it.  

 

Is this really so?   Since the beginning of history, humans have perceived the force of gravity. Things are heavy, and fall down.  Yet, until a few years ago, nobody had ever experienced the lack of gravity. So we don't need an anti-gravity to perceive gravity.

 

Going back to one of the phrases of the author: 

 

"There is nothing that God is not. And in the absence of what God is not, what God is . . . is not experienceable. "

 

Here the author gives a strange new definition of God: =  "everything".   This contradicts the traditional definition.  Why does he not use a different word, like NNN?  Then, he has the right to claim:  "Conversations with NNN".    But calling it "Conversations with God" is...  somewhat deceptive,  because his "God" is not what people normally think of a God.   Example:  we usually think that we are definitely something distinct from God,  So the God == "everything"  does not fit our model of God.   There is already a word, a concept we have of "everything", and this is the "universe", something that is not necessarily "divine".

 

Does this make sense?

[Guest Guest]

Yes I understand your question on the use of the word of God. This author has actually another book called "What God Wants" which explained in convincing ways, at least to me, why the definition and description of God has been abused by religion. The most dreadly misconception religions has created is exactly what u mentioned 'we r distinct from God'. If you come to the understanding and awareness of 'All is one', you have achieved enlightenment.

The reason he uses the word God, probably because he wants ppl to change the wrong concept of God through his book.

That's also the reason why some spiritual masters try to use other terms like, higher self, mindfulness, the kingdom within, the present,Being, I AM.

From eckhart tolle :

"When you say Being, are you talking about God? If you are, then why don't you say it?

The word God has become empty of meaning through thousands of years of misuse. I use it sometimes, but I do so sparingly. By misuse, I mean that people who have never even glimpsed the realm of the sacred, the infinite vastness behind that word, use it with great conviction, as if they knew what they are talking about. Or they argue against it, as if they knew what it is that they are denying. This misuse gives rise to absurd beliefs, assertions, and egoic delusions, such as "My or our God is the only true God, and your God is false," or Nietzsche's famous statement "God is dead."

The word God has become a closed concept. The moment the word is uttered, a mental image is created, no longer, perhaps, of an old man with a white beard, but still a mental representation of someone or something outside you, and, yes, almost inevitably a male someone or something.

Neither God nor Being nor any other word can define or explain the ineffable reality behind the word, so the only important question is whether the word is a help or a hindrance in enabling you to experience That toward which it points. Does it point beyond itself to that transcendental reality, or does it lend itself too easily to becoming no more than an idea in your head that you believe in, a mental idol?

The word Being explains nothing, but nor does God. Being, however, has the advantage that it is an open concept. It does not reduce the infinite invisible to a finite entity. It is impossible to form a mental image of it. Nobody can claim exclusive possession of Being. It is your very essence, and it is immediately accessible to you as the feeling of your own presence, the realization I am that is prior to I am this or I am that. So it is only a small step from the word Being to the experience of Being. "

http://www.inner-growth.info/power_of_now_tolle/eckhart_tolle_chapter1.htm

[sliceboy]

The sources that you have quoted sound like Buddhism. The authors are trying to infuse Buddhism into Christianity and appeal to Christians to change or improve their understanding of god and divinity. This may sound new to Christians but not to Buddhists.

 

You stated that your belief in the writings of Neale Donald Walsch was based on your emotion. I can say the same thing about JK Rowling's Harry Potter or any other piece of fiction. I doubt we will live our lives mostly based on emotion, as it can lead to gullibility and bad consequences.

 

You may not be aware but you are applying scientific thinking to your understanding of god. You found Catholic religion to be illogical and you are willing to seek, change, correct, improve - through critical thinking.

 

There is no need to dismiss science. Science has been our most successful way of thinking because science involves critical thinking - logic, reasoning, proof, disproving/falsifiability, skepticism, etc. We constantly change, improve and add to our knowledge - this is a good thing. This is NOT like Christianity.

 

Science already promotes skepticism. Being skeptical about science is to be skeptical about skepticism and therefore illogical.

 

Science is not as limited and dogmatic as you have claimed. Poor funding practices in science is not a valid reason to dismiss science.  Although science has proven that our senses are limited, this does not mean that we abandon scientific thinking and blindly believe in things like the supernatural.

 

In our search for the meaning of life, being "open-minded" does not mean we "anyhow" believe. We still use science. If you have a better way of thinking, you are welcome to contribute in science - and get rewarded for it.

 

 

Note that we have also discovered through science that living things evolve over billions of years, develop new senses and live in new environments. Life happens naturally and not through divinity or magic. Do you view this explanation of life as meaningful or meaningless?

 

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding..let me clarify again the entire post is quoted from the author.. Even the first line wasn't from me. If u click the appended link at the end of that entry you will see it. That's why I started with double quote..sorry for the confusion.

To answer your second part question, the author claimed he received divine message.

"Neale Donald Walsch had his first "conversation with God" in 1992, when at a particularly low point in his life he scribbled down an angry letter to God -- and received what he believed was a divine answer. As questions occurred to him, more answers came to him and he wrote them all down in a process he describes as "exactly like dictation." His best-selling "Conversations With God" books have been translated into 27 different languages. He talked with Beliefnet about his 2002 book, "The New Revelations."

http://www.beliefnet.com/Wellness/2002/11/Time-For-A-New-Spirituality.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neale_Donald_Walsch

You may feel I am an idiot who believe in this kind of claim without any scientific proof. Haha I just couldn't help but feel resonant with it. It is like falling in love, if u have experienced it, you have no idea why you r so attracted to a particular person. We don't need to wait for scientific proof to convince us we are in love. Strange but, we don't need everything to be proven to live a happy life. Haha Maybe it is just my personality for being more sensitive to my feeling and intuition and feeling more emotional.

No I am not here to convert anyone. As I mentioned just to share. And it is perfectly ok for everyone to have their own belief. I don't need anyone else approval or agreement to believe in something. As long as what I believe in bring happiness to me and bring no harm to other people. And I am open to change or to be convinced my belief is wrong.

I am wondering if someone believe everything on science, and believe nothing that is not scientific proven..this kind of reasoning isn't it similar to Christians who believe nothing else but the bible.

Bearing in mind that science is a process of discovery and breakthrough. What we know now, might not be valid any time later.

And also, scientific works are carried out by scientists working for institutions which mostly receive grants from companies to conduct research. Wouldn't they sponsor those research which are best to their benefits and profits. Would they not withhold any research findings that will harm their interest even though the disclosure of thefindings will benefit the humanity.

I posted on another thread of a video on interview of Russell brand. I kind of agree with him on the statement " anything we r describing through science we r describing through the prism of the five limited senses."

It is limited because senses can only detect certain range of frequency. This is a scientific claim.

http://www.blowingwind.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=45875


Btw I am the guest posted entry#432 too.

[Gray]

What I find very curious about the previous posts is this:

- I thought god was beyond human understanding and logic?

- How can mere mortals be so presumptuous as to do a study on god's purposes and motivations as though god is like an animal on Earth? I dunno, isn't that blasphemous?

- Is this whole "what god wants" theory backed with sources and evidence from the bible (The only source from god to christians; Not counting the voices people hear in their heads) ? If not, is it just wholly conceptualised by man?

 

- If it is, WHY do you believe it? Simply cos it sounds nice to you so you want to?

- And anyway this thing is kinda close to applying your brain when it comes to god and we all know that god is beyond human capability for understanding.

- Not applying faith? Isn't that kinda blasphemous?
 

Edited November 29, 2013 by Gray

[Guest Guest]

I don't dimiss science..what I am trying to say that, there r things that exist and yet still unexplainable with science.

Also being cynical about how the institutions and corporations operate in the world today led me to the statement on the possible motivation on scientific discovery. This doenst mean i would dismiss anything that is scientifically proven. I just don't take everything at its face value.

Yup, I also don't anyhow believe. With regards to religion or spirituality, I believe in something when it makes me a better person, experiencing peace, joy and love.I noticed the changes within myself. I feel more calm and peaceful. My life improves and have a more positive outlook. These evidence r sufficient for me.

I couldnt experience this while i was in the church, thts why I seek else where. And that doesn't mean, this is the only way. There r different path to happiness, everyone has his own. There are ppl who experience that through religion.

I am not a fan of Harry potter. But if a fictional story moves me and creates changes within me, I believe it in terms of its effect on me, not believing it as something that really exists or happens

I also grateful for being a christian as christ teaching on unconditional love planted the seed of my spiritual journey. As whether I believe in whether Jesus really exists or die on the cross or resurrected, it is not important cos believing this doesn't make me a more loving person.

Again there r ppl who believe this aspect of a Jesus suffering and resurrection as the story has an impact on them on unconditional love. Perfectly fine to me.

[Steve5380]

Yes I understand your question on the use of the word of God. This author has actually another book called "What God Wants" which explained in convincing ways, at least to me, why the definition and description of God has been abused by religion. The most dreadly misconception religions has created is exactly what u mentioned 'we r distinct from God'. If you come to the understanding and awareness of 'All is one', you have achieved enlightenment.

The reason he uses the word God, probably because he wants ppl to change the wrong concept of God through his book.

That's also the reason why some spiritual masters try to use other terms like, higher self, mindfulness, the kingdom within, the present,Being, I AM.

From eckhart tolle :

"When you say Being, are you talking about God? If you are, then why don't you say it?

---------

 

Guest, I'm pleased at your understanding.  You are, of course, intelligent.   I would like to know (I'm not sure I'll read his book) WHY he says that the word "Good" has been abused.  It's meaning throughout history has been sufficiently clear.  Even an agnostic like me,  when reading "Conversation with God",  I think of a godly person, a being who is a God who is chatting with him,  and not an universal essence that fills all space.  If this author has a different concept, HE should have defined another word.  This is why I find that HE abuses the word in a deceptive way.  

 

One term I have also found is "The Absolute"  (not the gay sauna).  I have no problems with a supernatural essence or being that permeates everything.  Centuries ago, scientists believed that all space was filled with the "ether", a substance that explained the propagation of light as a wave.  But later experiments failed to detect an "ether drag" expected by the motion of the earth through space, and the concept was abandoned.  Now we believe that most space is filled with nothing (except antimatter?).

 

All these are speculations.  Are they any better than to speculate that there is NOTHING? I don't know.

 

I have also watched the past videos by Eckhard Tolle, and thought that he has some "truth".   This may be the case.  But I detect a common trait in people like him and Donald Walsh:  they seem to have got a GLANCE of something extraordinary.   But from this GLANCE, they erect a huge building of esoteric ideas.   Is it something similar to the Catholic Church who claims a right to being the successor of Christ simply because of some words in the scriptures he allegedly said about Peter being the cornerstone of what would be built up?

 

Have fun with these speculations.  In any case, you can always step down from these theories as fast as you climbed onto them.  

[Guest Guest]

What I find very curious about the previous posts is this:

- I thought god was beyond human understanding and logic?

- How can mere mortals be so presumptuous as to do a study on god's purposes and motivations as though god is like an animal on Earth? I dunno, isn't that blasphemous?

- Is this whole "what god wants" theory backed with sources and evidence from the bible (The only source from god to christians; Not counting the voices people hear in their heads) ? If not, is it just wholly conceptualised by man?

- If it is, WHY do you believe it? Simply cos it sounds nice to you so you want to?

- And anyway this thing is kinda close to applying your brain when it comes to god and we all know that god is beyond human capability for understanding.

- Not applying faith? Isn't that kinda blasphemous?

Hey u forgot that the bible itself also originated from humans, am I not right? The prophets and scribes as the churcch called them, are humans, rnt they not?

The questions you ask r perfectly applicable and can be directed to the origins of the bible! Thanks for highlight it!

And also note that Jesus experienced the exactly same kind of rejection and condemnation based on your kind of reasoning that led him to his crucifixion.

[Steve5380]

The sources that you have quoted sound like Buddhism. The authors are trying to infuse Buddhism into Christianity and appeal to Christians to change or improve their understanding of god and divinity. This may sound new to Christians but not to Buddhists.

 

You stated that your belief in the writings of Neale Donald Walsch was based on your emotion. I can say the same thing about JK Rowling's Harry Potter or any other piece of fiction. I doubt we will live our lives mostly based on emotion, as it can lead to gullibility and bad consequences.

 

You may not be aware but you are applying scientific thinking to your understanding of god. You found Catholic religion to be illogical and you are willing to seek, change, correct, improve - through critical thinking.

 

There is no need to dismiss science. Science has been our most successful way of thinking because science involves critical thinking - logic, reasoning, proof, disproving/falsifiability, skepticism, etc. We constantly change, improve and add to our knowledge - this is a good thing. This is NOT like Christianity.

 

Science already promotes skepticism. Being skeptical about science is to be skeptical about skepticism and therefore illogical.

-----

 

sliceboy,  we have much in common in our thinking.  I also cite Harry Potter as something that could be as believable as all the Abrahamic religions if we didn't know that it is a fictitious character created by JK Rowling.

 

"Science already promotes skepticism. Being skeptical about science is to be skeptical about skepticism and therefore illogical."

 

Very smart observation.  I will remember it.

[Steve5380]

I also grateful for being a christian as christ teaching on unconditional love planted the seed of my spiritual journey. As whether I believe in whether Jesus really exists or die on the cross or resurrected, it is not important cos believing this doesn't make me a more loving person.

 

 

You consider yourself a Christian because his philosophy is your guide.  So do I.   Interestingly, many "Christian believers" don't accept that this is to be a Christian, because they think that they already have a registered, patented word "Christian" for the believers in the Christian God.

[Guest Guest]

"Science already promotes skepticism. Being skeptical about science is to be skeptical about skepticism and therefore illogical."

Yes scientific approach or scientific way of thinking promotes skepticism.

But proven scientific theories can later be discovered 'incomplete, maybe wrong' with the discoveries of new theories. Also scientists r humans and to err is humans nature.

[Gray]

Hey u forgot that the bible itself also originated from humans, am I not right? The prophets and scribes as the churcch called them, are humans, rnt they not?

The questions you ask r perfectly applicable and can be directed to the origins of the bible! Thanks for highlight it!

And also note that Jesus experienced the exactly same kind of rejection and condemnation based on your kind of reasoning that led him to his crucifixion.

 

The problem is that the bible is the "official" word of god and the holy text. The book described above trying to explain away god is not.

 

See the difference?

 

Sorry... your post was entirely unhelpful to the questions I raised.

[Gray]

"Science already promotes skepticism. Being skeptical about science is to be skeptical about skepticism and therefore illogical."

Yes scientific approach or scientific way of thinking promotes skepticism.

But proven scientific theories can later be discovered 'incomplete, maybe wrong' with the discoveries of new theories. Also scientists r humans and to err is humans nature.

 

I've said it before and I will say it again. If that is the case, then question everything you have been taught in school from young until now.

 

Human invention and knowledge are prone to error right? Don't use any technology or medicine then.

 

Follow the bible strictly and accept everything it says. Start believing that the world is flat. Cos god is perfect right? Only use technology and medicine given to you by god. Please verify before you use it ok? You don't wanna be accidentally using something created by humans. It may be full of error, and we all don't want that.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Gray

[sum1outhere_03]

I  don't know whether that makes sense but I know that

 

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16)

[Gray]

"Finally...All of it Explained in Simple Terms

Read this

and you will understand

everything you’ve ever

needed to know.

The Divine Purpose is for Life to be used by Divinity to express Divinity in order that Divinity may experience Divinity is all of its aspects.

In short, God is using Life in order to experience Itself.

Divinity can be experienced only through the expression of it. Divinity can be imagined, it can be thought about, and it can be held in Awareness by the Soul, but until it is expressed, it is merely a concept; unless it is expressed, it cannot be experienced.

Here, then, is the Soul’s Knowing: Until you express Divinity you cannot experience Divinity.

You can talk about Love, you can imagine Love, you can think about Love, you can hold Love as an idea conceptually,

but until you express it, you cannot experience it.

You can talk about Compassion, you can imagine Compassion, you can think about Compassion, you can hold Compassion as an idea conceptually, but until you express it, you cannot experience it.

You can talk about Understanding, you can imagine Understanding, you can think about Understanding, you can hold Understanding as an idea conceptually, but until you express it, you cannot experience it.

You can talk about Forgiveness, you can imagine Forgiveness, you can think about Forgiveness, you can hold Forgiveness as an idea conceptually, but until you express it, you cannot experience it.

Divinity is all of these things, and much more. It is Patience and Kindness, Goodness and Mercy, Acceptance and Forbearance, Wisdom and Clarity, Gentleness and Beauty, Selflessness and Nobility, Benevolence and Generosity. And yes, much, much more.

You can imagine all of these things, you can think about all of these things, you can hold all of these things as ideas conceptually, but until you express all of these things in you, through you, as you, you have not experienced Divinity.

And you will never have an opportunity to experience these things unless Life provides you with such an opportunity. This is what Life is doing every day. Indeed, this is the purpose of Life Itself.

Therefore, when Life brings you challenges, difficulties, and unique conditions, situations, and circumstances that are ideally suited to bring out the best in you, “judge not, and neither condemn,” but be a Light unto the darkness, that you might know Who You Really Are—and that all those whose lives you touch might know who they are as well, by the light of your example.

While the idea that “God uses Life to know Godself” is surely not new, why God works this way may very well be something you’d like to know more about. So here is the explanation.

God cannot experience all that God is within the Spiritual Realm alone, because in that realm there is nothing that God is not.

The Realm of the Spiritual is the place where God is all there is, where Love is all there is, where Perfection is all there is. It’s a wonderful place, because there is nothing but Divinity. It is, in short, what you would call heaven. There is, however, this particular reality: There is nothing that God is not. And in the absence of what God is not, what God is . . . is not experienceable.

The same is true about you. You cannot experience what you are except in the presence of What You Are Not. Nor is anything able to be experienced unless it is in a Contextual Field that includes its opposite.

The light cannot be experienced without the darkness. “Up” has no meaning in experience without “down.” “Fast” is simply a term, a word having no meaning whatsoever without “slow.”

Only in the presence of the thing called “small” can the thing called “big” be experienced. We can say that something is “big,” we can imagine that something is “big,” we can conceptualize something as being “big,” but in the absence of something that is “small,” “big” cannot be experienced.

Likewise, in the absence of something “finite,” “infinity” cannot be experienced. Put into theological terms, we can know “Divinity” conceptually, but we cannot know it experientially.

Therefore, all the people and events of your life—now or in the past—which seem to be “at odds” with who you are and what you choose to experience, are simply gifts from the highest source, created for you and brought to you through the collaborative process of co-creating souls, allowing you to find yourself in a Contextual Field within which the fullest experience of Who You Really Are becomes possible.

Or, as it was so wonderfully stated by The Divine in Conversations with God . . .

I have sent you nothing but angels.

Now there’s a statement to remember. It was said here that your eternal Sacred Journey has a purpose, and it does indeed. It is a purpose established by Divinity Itself.

The Divine Purpose is to expand the Reality of God.

In simple terms (and these are simple terms), God is growing—becoming more of Itself—through the process called Life. God IS this process.

God is both the Process of Life Itself . . . and the result of it. Thus, God is The Creator and The Created. The Alpha and the Omega. The Beginning and The End. The Unmoved Mover. The Unwatched Watcher.

In not so simple terms, God cannot “grow” because everything that God ever was, is now, or ever will be, Is Now. There is no Time and there is no Space. Therefore, there is no time in which to grow, and no space into which to grow. The Cycle of Life is occurring simultaneously everywhere.

What the human Mind wants to call God’s “growth” is merely God experiencing more and more of

Itself as the Individuations of God experience more and more of themselves. This is called Evolution.

This was accomplished by The Whole dividing Itself (not to be confused with separating Itself) from Itself, re-creating Itself in smaller and finite form.

No finite form, by the very reason of its being finite, could hold the infinite consciousness, awareness, and experience of The Whole, yet each individuated form was designed uniquely to reflect a particular aspect of Divinity Itself.

Putting all these aspects together again, as one puts the pieces of a puzzle together, produces a picture of what all the pieces create. Namely: God.

All the pieces are part of the picture, and no piece is less a part of the picture than any other.

Now some forms of Life have been endowed with a level of Essential Essence (the raw energy from which everything springs) sufficient to produce the possibility of that Essence knowing Itself. This is the quality in certain living things that is called Self-Consciousness.

Human Life (and, we suspect with good reason, Life elsewhere in the Universe) was designed in such a way that what we call “expansion” of Consciousness and Experience is possible.

In fact, human Consciousness can expand even to a point where it once again knows itself as part of The Whole. Jesus, for instance, said: “I and the Father are one.” He understood his relationship to God perfectly. He

understood that the picture which the puzzle created was not Complete without him. He was The Completion. As are we all.

A Soul Knowing: God is both the Process of Life Itself

and the Result of that Process. As are we all.

Take one piece of the puzzle away and the picture is not Complete. The experience of becoming fully Self Consciousness occurs through a process by which the Individuated Aspect does not grow, actually, but simply becomes more and more aware that it does not have to grow, but truly is, in its individuated form, Divinity Itself. The individual piece recognizes itself as The Puzzle

Itself, simply divided.

The spectacular physiological, psychological, and theological transition into that higher level of Self-Awareness occurs only once in the epochal history of every sentient species in the cosmos—and this is precisely what is happening within the human race right now.

================================

END NOTE:

THE 25 CORE MESSAGES of Conversations with God are newly and fully explored, explained, and expanded under one cover in the 2013 text "What God Said," from Berkley Books. You can explore it here:

www.WhatGodSaidbook.com

The statement above is taken directly from "The Only Thing That Matters," from Emnin Books, distributed by Hay House.

These two books are highly recommended reading for anyone wishing to delve deeply into a new theology for humanity.

It is important to understand that a “theology” is not a religion. No one is suggesting that Conversations with God become a new religion. The word theology is defined as “the study of the nature of God.” That is precisely what the dialogue in CWG is.

I was once asked on a national television program if I could articulate God's message to the world in simple terms. I replied, “Yes. I can give it to you in five words.” The host blinked twice, then said, “Okay then. Ladies and gentlemen, God's message to the world, in five words, from Neale Donald Walsch...”

And I said...

You’ve got me all wrong.

If you have a deep yearning to stop getting God all wrong, I urge you to explore the concepts and principles in Conversations with God—not the least important of which is the New Gospel: We Are All One. Ours is not a better way, ours is merely another way."

https://www.facebook.com/NealeDonaldWalsch/posts/10151748861007344

 

Let me just say that all of the text I quoted from above entirely contradicts all of you christians' whole religion about a perfect, all powerful, omniscient god. If you accept what this guy says about his inner head conversations with god, you're also accepting that your god is:

 

- Not Almighty.

 

- Not Perfect.

 

- Has Needs.

 

- Sounds more like a child than a father.

 

I'm not christian, but even I know that is blasphemous.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Gray

[sliceboy]

Why are you trying again to discredit science? Do you have a better way of thinking than science? You will surely be awarded the Nobel Prize.

 

Do you also happen to think that being gay is wrong?

 

 

"Science already promotes skepticism. Being skeptical about science is to be skeptical about skepticism and therefore illogical."


Yes scientific approach or scientific way of thinking promotes skepticism.

But proven scientific theories can later be discovered 'incomplete, maybe wrong' with the discoveries of new theories. Also scientists r humans and to err is humans nature.

Edited November 30, 2013 by sliceboy

[Guest Guest]

Let me just say that all of the text I quoted from above entirely contradicts all of you christians' whole religion about a perfect, all powerful, omniscient god. If you accept what this guy says about his inner head conversations with god, you're also accepting that your god is:

- Not Almighty.

- Not Perfect.

- Has Needs.

- Sounds more like a child than a father.

I'm not christian, but even I know that is blasphemous.

With a god who is almighty, perfect and without needs, does he or she really care or be bothered or affected by the acts of his or her creatures?

[Guest Guest]

..does he or she really care or be bothered or affected by the *blasphemous acts of his or her creatures?

[Gray]

..does he or she really care or be bothered or affected by the *blasphemous acts of his or her creatures?

Hmm? What are u trying to say? Anyway as for your question, yes god is bothered by blasphemy according to the bible.

[Guest Guest]

yes god is bothered by blasphemy according to the bible.

...then he or she is not almighty, nor perfect and not without needs...that's what I am trying to say

[Steve5380]

I  don't know whether that makes sense but I know that

 

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16)

sum1outhere... how you KNOW that?   Were you there and talked to the people who wrote the Scriptures, and they told you that they were inspired by God?  And even if they did,  how can you trust them?  Could they have been under the trance of some hallucinogens?

 

I have a theory that is a little more pragmatic:  since one does not find people who communicate with God  (at least not sane people),  it became necessary to explain how some writing could be related to God.  So came the theory of "Divine Inspiration".  

[Steve5380]

..does he or she really care or be bothered or affected by the *blasphemous acts of his or her creatures?

 

NOOO    Why would an almighty perfect and without needs Godly Being be interested in such miserable insignificant creatures as we are?   It does not make any sense...

 

But, WAIT:  there is a way to build interest:  LOVE!!!!   The magic component in the potion that Christians have to drink.   God LOVES us.  So... we need to reciprocate this love.    And, what better to love than a God?

[Steve5380]

Of course he is bothered.  If not, why "inspire" humans to write The 10 Commandments?  Why make it a law that those who choose to believe in him will have everlasting life, otherwise perish in you-know-where.  And why bother whether humans engage in homosexual acts or not, by making quotations that would condemn them to you-know-where.  If he is not bothered, then he is not the God of Christianity / Judaism.  Ditto if he is not almighty-all-perfect-and-all-knowing.

 

The almighty, perfect, infinitely <everything> God is not only bothered,  he is pissed off! (according to the Old Testament).  If instead of playing with a pussy I play with a cock, this makes the all-powerful God mad as hell!   He constantly checks each of the seven billion humans to make sure that they play with the allowed genitals only.

[Guest Guesst]

How do other religions like bahai faith, sai baba, hinduism, nichiren soka, shinto, de jiao moral society view christian god, bible and gays?

[Guest Guest]

Guest, I'm pleased at your understanding. You are, of course, intelligent. I would like to know (I'm not sure I'll read his book) WHY he says that the word "Good" has been abused. It's meaning throughout history has been sufficiently clear. Even an agnostic like me, when reading "Conversation with God", I think of a godly person, a being who is a God who is chatting with him, and not an universal essence that fills all space. If this author has a different concept, HE should have defined another word. This is why I find that HE abuses the word in a deceptive way.

One term I have also found is "The Absolute" (not the gay sauna). I have no problems with a supernatural essence or being that permeates everything. Centuries ago, scientists believed that all space was filled with the "ether", a substance that explained the propagation of light as a wave. But later experiments failed to detect an "ether drag" expected by the motion of the earth through space, and the concept was abandoned. Now we believe that most space is filled with nothing (except antimatter?).

All these are speculations. Are they any better than to speculate that there is NOTHING? I don't know.

I have also watched the past videos by Eckhard Tolle, and thought that he has some "truth". This may be the case. But I detect a common trait in people like him and Donald Walsh: they seem to have got a GLANCE of something extraordinary. But from this GLANCE, they erect a huge building of esoteric ideas. Is it something similar to the Catholic Church who claims a right to being the successor of Christ simply because of some words in the scriptures he allegedly said about Peter being the cornerstone of what would be built up?

Have fun with these speculations. In any case, you can always step down from these theories as fast as you climbed onto them.

Yes it requires a paradigm shift when a concept is so ingrained into our mind.

One of the reasons that I could think of on why the idea of the Source, or the Absolute was translated as a fatherly figure because it was easier to explain especially more than two thousand years ago where most ppl were illiterate and uneducated. This is also why Jesus uses parables in his teaching for easy understanding.

When the bible mentions ' We r born in the image of God.' .. There r two possible interpretation. Either we r like God or God is like us. We can fit our idea of God into our human nature..like judgmental, jealous and only capable of conditional love like most Christian churches teach. Or it could be that we hv the divine nature like God that we didn't realized. There is a quote "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience."

You can also ask why Father (male) and not Mother? http://www.ewtn.com/library/Theology/NOTMOTHR.HTM

Side note, u used the term the Absolute. This term actually fits into the philosophy of the duality discussion we had in earlier post...ie..the idea of where a contrast is needed to show an essence. These can be described in terms of the idea of Absolute vs relative.

I just noticed in your post u used another term which can be refer to the source ie NOTHING, the Silence. Ppl access the source through meditation, where they quiet their mind to experience Nothingness.

Yes I am normally skeptical when I come across a radical idea. How I discern is like I mentioned whether it helps me to change as a person from what I learnt from their ideas.

Another way tell is ask what they gain out of sharing the idea. They publish the book because they have found the " treasure in the field" and became "the light Of the world and the salt of the earth" to share with us ? - "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found, and hid. In his joy, he goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field."

Or they are turning it into another money making, ppl controlling religious entity?

[Gray]

Another way tell is ask what they gain out of sharing the idea. They publish the book because they have found the " treasure in the field" and became "the light Of the world and the salt of the earth" to share with us ? - "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found, and hid. In his joy, he goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field."

Or they are turning it into another money making, ppl controlling religious entity?

Oh of course they are! I have no doubt that they gained a lot from this initiative already. Don't u know that the easiest way to get rich these days is to write books like these and start a church? Edited December 1, 2013 by Gray

[sliceboy]

The author of "Conversations with God" got book & movie deal$ plus his own "church"/movement already.

 

Hm…

 

Beliefs in god can later be discovered 'incomplete, maybe wrong' and re-interpreted to change and add new meanings. Also the authors of god "r humans and to err is humans nature."

 

 

Oh of course they are! I have no doubt that they gained a lot from this initiative already. Don't u know that the easiest way to get rich these days is to write books like these and start a church?

 

Yes I am normally skeptical when I come across a radical idea. How I discern is like I mentioned whether it helps me to change as a person from what I learnt from their ideas.

Another way tell is ask what they gain out of sharing the idea. They publish the book because they have found the " treasure in the field" and became "the light Of the world and the salt of the earth" to share with us ? - "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found, and hid. In his joy, he goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field."

Or they are turning it into another money making, ppl controlling religious entity?

Edited December 1, 2013 by sliceboy

[Guest Guest]

The author of "Conversations with God" got book & movie deal$ already.

Hm…

Beliefs in god can later be discovered 'incomplete, maybe wrong' and re-interpreted to change and add new meanings. Also the authors of god "r humans and to err is humans nature."

Yes totally agree! That's why I said

" I always enjoy discussion that open my mind and challenge my belief. Cos I believe there is always something that I am not aware of. I therefore keep on learning.

I have gone through the stages from fervent catholic to an atheist, then started exploring some spiritual related topics. I don't know what will I learn or discover next, but it's alright this is life, nothing is certain. I will just enjoy the ride. "

[Guest Guest]

Conversations with god author has not made a single cent from me yet..haha cos I borrow the books from the library and read articles from Internet anis watch his YouTube videos.

[sliceboy]

I recommend "Letting Go of God" by comedienne Julia Sweeney, on DVD & CD.

I'm not sure if it's available; you can check & borrow from library for "free".

http://juliasweeney.com/letting-go-of-god/

 

Like you, Julia was a Catholic. Her journey is similar to many Christians today. She tried to make sense of life; to reconcile religion and science; and (how) to figure out what is "true". Besides Catholicism, her journey included Mormonism, Buddhism, "new age" religions (e.g. Deepak Chopra), pseudo-science (intelligent design) and science.

 

IMO, the authors that you have mentioned, e.g. Neale Walsch, are trying to change the conventional Christian definition of "god" and "divinity" by removing the supernatural or magical aspects and thereby making "god" more compatible and less conflicting with science. Their new definitions and use of words like "being", "silent", "now" are similar to Buddhism. Note that Buddha existed before Jesus and already Buddha taught his students skepticism; he told them to experience his teachings for themselves and not worship or blindly believe him.

 

In addition to emotion, you should measure these so-called "new age" authors by their income. You should write & start a new "religion" for gays.

 

FYI. NUS offered a course on Critical Thinking for $1,050. Not sure about their 2014 course schedule.

 

You already paid for the "Conversations with God" books through your tax dollars which paid for the library. Remember, our Singapore "God" LKY says nothing is for free.

 

 

Conversations with god author has not made a single cent from me yet..haha cos I borrow the books from the library and read articles from Internet anis watch his YouTube videos.

 

 

Yes totally agree! That's why I said

" I always enjoy discussion that open my mind and challenge my belief. Cos I believe there is always something that I am not aware of. I therefore keep on learning.

I have gone through the stages from fervent catholic to an atheist, then started exploring some spiritual related topics. I don't know what will I learn or discover next, but it's alright this is life, nothing is certain. I will just enjoy the ride. "

Edited December 2, 2013 by sliceboy

[Guest Guest]

http://stfuconservatives.tumblr.com/post/22856294530

"The laws in the Old Testament were set forth by god as the rules the Hebrews needed to follow in order to be righteous, to atone for the sin of Adam and Eve and to be able to get into Heaven. That is also why they were required to make sacrifices, because it was part of the appeasement for Original Sin.

According to Christian theology, when Jesus came from Heaven, it was for the express purpose of sacrificing himself on the cross so that our sins may be forgiven. His sacrifice was supposed to be the ultimate act that would free us from the former laws and regulations and allow us to enter Heaven by acting in his image. That is why he said “it is finished” when he died on the cross. That is why Christians don’t have to circumcise their sons (god’s covenant with Jacob), that is why they don’t have to perform animal sacrifice, or grow out their forelocks, or follow any of the other laws of Leviticus.

When you quote Leviticus as god’s law and say they are rules we must follow because they are what god or Jesus wants us to do, what you are really saying, as a Christian, is that Christ’s sacrifice on the cross was invalid. He died in vain because you believe we are still beholden to the old laws. That is what you, a self-professed good Christian, are saying to your god and his son, that their plan for your salvation wasn’t good enough for you.

So maybe actually read the thing before you start quoting it, because the implications of your actions go a lot deeper than you think.

/An atheist who understands Christian theology better than Bible-thumpers do."

[FirsTimer]

i found it to be preposterous. how can anyone find it to be accepting
i am almost annoyed

[FirsTimer]

Jesus said nothing much about homosexuality?*
anyway. i cant find much about the source. i am 21 this year. al ready.

i am going to be still and know that you are God then. till then

Edited February 14, 2015 by FirsTimer

[Guest Guest]

If i go church every week, am i a christian?

If i not only go to church EVERY SINGLE week, but i also go around the world helping to build churches, does that qualify me more as a christian than the person who treats everyone fairly but do not go to any church or build churches?

Btw, visiting the church boutique at mbs regularly doesn't quality one as a christian.

[Guest Passerby]

Well I used to go to church like ... for a long long time until recent months.

 

This is what my mentor used to tell me, 

 

"Ephesians 2:8 

⁸ For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God"

 

Our works does not make us a qualify more as a Christian than the person who treats everyone fairly but do not go to church. 

[Guest Guest]

It is a love relationship with God.

Let me explain using gay LTRs...

Can you say that A loves his bf less because he does not bring his bf out for a date every week? And B loves his bf more because he brings his bf out every week, buys him presents and build love nests around the world for them to live together?

Can you also say that the status of being a bf depends on the number of things you do for each other?

If your answers are NO, then why should your status as a Christian and the love you have for God be determined by the things you have mentioned?

Remember: God sees your heart, not your work. :-)

[gstringuy26]

I think you need to be baptized by a pastor if not you are not! 

[Guest Guest]

I think you need to be baptized by a pastor if not you are not!

Now this is a grey area.

[gstringuy26]

Then how? suka suka? self-proclaim? last time I remember a pastor wanted to baptized me but I refused! 

[Guest cuteguy]

Y u refused?christian cant wear g string juz like wat u r wearing in yr pic ha?

[Guest cuteguy]

U always mosque or help out in mosque u think u can.bcome muslim ah?ur cock still got to circumcise one.