All About Hiv / Aids Discussion + I Suspect I Might Have Hiv Symptoms + Hiv Medication Prep + I Tested Positive (Compiled)

[TheVisitors]

My own life example I gonna share here, is just to reinforce what Slayer is trying to convey, regarding us being a little more sympathetic and patient with HIV affected people.

Knowing myself too well, I don't trust anyone that easily, thus it is not easy for me to like or even fall in love with someone in the first place. Being very independant since young, I rather get a job done by myself rather than rely or trust someone's capacity, unless a person can proof himself other else.

I need to get a deep connection with someone before I can allow him into my world.

8years ago, a guy I met did make an impactable connection with me. We could talk laugh and joke about almost anything under the sun. I felt so free so myself so happy with him because with him I didnt have to build a wall around me or wear a mask .

He felt likewise, and so we dated to see how things will turn out to be.

But for 6 weeks of dating and seeing each other 3 times a week and every weekend, I noticed he wont share his food, his drink with me, from the same plate or cup.

Even for 6 weeks we only hold hands when we walked in quiet spots away from public view. There were no kissing (even any initiation from him ), at alone sex

6 weeks drifted to a few months I was feeling frustrated about the whole relationship because it was not going anywhere. If we just merely gonna hold hands forever and nothing more, even there are emotions in us, just waiting to be expressed, but yet can't, this relationship seems to be going nowhere

I finally expressed my views and laid my cards down.

Listening to me patiently,he calmly told me because he is HIV positive, all he could have with me was a platonic relationship and nothing more.

He knew, the day will come either I will confront him regarding our relationship issues, or he will have to have the bravery to tell me who he really is. It will be someday, now or never.

I was pretty shock. Its like you have waited all these while to have a conncetion with someone, yet, you are not allowed to.

Its like a sick divine plan, a sick comedy.

When the Gods want to punish you, they answer your prayers

Looking at him physically on the outlook, standing at 1.8m tall with a tan, healthy/ atheletic/ dashy looking , and a bright , promising future as an engineering architect, you wont believe in him, he carries the fearsome HIV virus in his blood

He sees me as a young healthy intelligent spontaneous chap with a bright future,so much promises ahead, that he had decided he could not bring himself to destroy me, my life,with the virus in him, as they would one day, destoy and break down his life, leading to a slow and painful death, with so much prejudges, judgements and shame he will have to go through, by himself.

Seeing a grown up man sharing a dark shameful truth about himself, in tears, it was the first time in my life I begin to love him even more. I love him for his bravery. I felt so ashamed of myself, for wanting things for myself out of our simple pure relationship.

So sad was I for him that suddenly I took his face and gave him a kiss, while I was crying for him too.He was very surprised but touched by my gesture I guess Somehow, deep inside , I knew, once the truth was revealed, it will be the last time we will be seeing each other.

Fort Road Garden. Feb 2002. Under the stars one late night.

Looking in retrospect, I wonder why we termed an event created out of a mistake. Be it intentional or unintentionally created, people are not perfect, so why do we always harp upon a person's "mistake", not move on,but aggravate their situations with our judgements, prejugdes, our hatred, our fears and our slow mindness, in an illusion, thinking we are more pure, more superior, more goody two shoes than them?

Indirectly we created our victims with our negativities, shame and fears inside of us, that we tend to deny.

The victims here, not only include our HIV victims, but victims of uncured diseases, and the "lesser perceived beings" such as the ex-convicts and the drug addicts.

We have not only, not given them their freedom and their rights to live well, we have also taken away their dignity to face life ahead.

Dont be their problems, if you cant help them, but at least give them solutions and aid them if we can.

Some months later, I received a letter from him written in Denver then another from Florida, telling me he wants to live in another the country, in search for a better life elsewhere, where prejudges on HIV victims will be less harsh and more tolerated, and the medical treatment will be cheaper. And nothing from him since.

Looking at the stars sometimes, I still wonder how is he.

Edited May 26, 2010 by TheVisitors

[Guest osrich]

Thanks Visitor for sharing your story.

Pls tell us who is the one who wish to terminate the relationship.

From the limited details, some may interpret that he is playing with your feeling, since he already knows the outcome if he reveals his HIV status to you. Did he wanted to end the relationship out of concern for your safety or did you wanted to end it for practical reasons?

Another dimension to explore is he can afford to move to another more accepting country, is that escapism?

I think it's all in the mind. One with a strong mind whether gay or not, HIV + or -, is able to adapt and live happily anywhere. Of course it's easier said than done, but not impossible to achieve to a certain degree.

[Eragon]

Thanks Visitor for sharing your story.

Pls tell us who is the one who wish to terminate the relationship.

From the limited details, some may interpret that he is playing with your feeling, since he already knows the outcome if he reveals his HIV status to you. Did he wanted to end the relationship out of concern for your safety or did you wanted to end it for practical reasons?

Another dimension to explore is he can afford to move to another more accepting country, is that escapism?

I think it's all in the mind. One with a strong mind whether gay or not, HIV + or -, is able to adapt and live happily anywhere. Of course it's easier said than done, but not impossible to achieve to a certain degree.

I m not the author but I would like to share my point of view, by answering your queries:

I think the point isn't about who had chosen to end the relationship. (Only if you are more concern about who is to be blamed for starting this 'friendship', that you would wana know about who had decided to end it.) I doubt anyone would interpret that HIV carrier in the story to be unconcern, cos had he been a 'virus-giver' he won't had bothered to be so watchful over his date. Quite obvious. Well, You have no idea how much pressure a person is under when that person is a HIV carrier - u literally given up your own lifestyle for the safety of your love one.

IF, it was the author himself who has chosen 'to end it for practical reasons', you cannot fault him as well, he has every right to protect himself and responsibilities in life does not permit himself to risk his health, for all you know.

There is so much discrimination in SG, anyone who is a HIV carrier would want to leave. Be fair. He has every rights to be happy too. Why is that Escape? I don't think so. I would call it seeking comfort.

You can only be happy, if, you want yourself to.

You have raised a few important points but somehow they r stirring towards a rather cynical direction - may become misleading.

[TheVisitors]

Sorry for the late rely. Was busy the whole day .

To reply your queries, looking in retrospect, it was one of the most simple relationship, and purest that I went through in my younger days.

I do believe ( trusting my own gut instinct ) he did love me once and was concern about my happiness that he had to give up having a relationship wth me. It was his way of showing his affection in his own way which I appreciate and will always cherish it.

In our gay world, him having a pretty handsome face, a nice phyique and a good promising career, you would say he is a good catch, but why did me chose to share his time his life and inner world with me, while I still believe there are much better candidates than myself? Why did he choose to tell me he was HIV positive, when he could have just gave better lame excuses or just disappear or not answering my calls, if he was not interested in continuing developing our relationship to another different prospect or dimension?

Or why did he even bother to correspond twice when he left the country ?

I look at it as his way of showing his responsibility and sensibility.

Even he no longer wants to correspond and ends everything, I do not and will never hate him for whatever choices he decides, because if you really love and care for someone, you will have to respect whatever choices he chosed best that decides his own happiness, even you may disagree or feel very sad inside.

My recent 4 years relationship with my last bf came to a halt when he developed a genetic disease called lipoma/dercum.

I will not give the full detail, but in summary, its fat cells that developed into huge lumps all over his body, attaching to his nerves. They gave him pain, lethargy, depression inside and when he looks himself in the mirror, fever at night, mood swings and pain when he moves his body.

There is no cure for this genetic disease, but slowly he will become physically grotesque and unsightly when the lumps protude conspicuously all over his body, sparing his face only.

I spent another 2 years travelling round the world looking for a cure, or thinking to myself if I could give up something I have ( maybe my eyesight, my arms or one of my fingers) just to find a cure for him , I was more willing to, but in reality, there is no cure for it, I have to come to reality terms on how his health issues was affecting us very badly.

I wanted to stay to take care of him, no matter what he will look like in the end, but he wanted me to leave him, in search of a better life elsewhere, with someone.

It took me 2 years to accept his choice, while I was living in my own self denial.

Looking at the two experiences I went through, I learnt that people who are affected with HIV or some incurable diseases, have their self esteem and worth affected by the disease they have, very badly. If they can no longer love or accept themselves, they , in return, cannot have the capacity in them, to love another person.

Thus, it is best sometimes, as not to aggravate their predicament, to accept in whatever decision they have to make, whether you may agree or disagree.

This leads me to post another thought for viewers here. Many times I read threads regarding sorrowful breakups etc etc petty quarrels and fights,and some instances of cheating.

It makes me want ask a question, whether which is more painful? To be dumped by someone, or having to give up a person whom you still love deeply and care very much, but because of some external factors or situation, it does not permit two people to be together, even they really want to.

Its just a food for thought ....no offense.

Edited May 26, 2010 by TheVisitors

[GachiMuchi]

:clap: :clap:

[Guest Guest]

Reading TheVisitors posts in this thread reminds me of cheap storyline in Korean dramas I used to watch lol. Only that in his case, both the 'main characters' are males lol.

[Guest Nostradamus]

Have any of you encountered people with HIV?

If he is honest enough to reveal his condition to you before you both jump into bed, would you still "jump" in?

For HIV guys who reveals your condition before sex, how often do you get accepted and proceeded with the act?

HIV is not a death sentence.

Guys with HIV who r honest and responsible/concerned abt others deserved our understanding.

But watch out for HIV +ve guys who go around infecting others out of vengeance.

They r out there and u know who u r. By doing so , u r barking up the wrong tree.

Pls spare a little kindness for your bros/sis.

[Exfoliator]

-Edited-

Edited May 29, 2010 by Exfoliator

[Guest One month HIV +]

My true story -

I am a curious straight who lead a straight life attached with a gf almost 4 yrs ago, but i realise something isn't right in the relationship.

Slowly i become a bi and broke off with my gf. Finally I am out to this circle, till now it's close to 4 yrs.

As i was new to this circle, AJ sex is really interesting to me. Going to club, getting to know new friends... leading a whole

new life like never before.

The temptation is strong that sex is hardly resisted if the guy you are with is your type. Initially, cautious sex is a must.

BUT, when there is instance when rare catch come and you have no condom, we tend to look at the person appearance. Thinking in my mind,

he look gorgeous... he doesn't look sick at all. He look like a innocent boy next door, he cannot be a HIV+!! Still i don't want anal penetration, at most rubbing around. This kind of encounter isn't alot though. After a while, i am tired of looking around in IRC which i always ended up with disappointment. Therefore i had a sex buddy which we regularly had fun with weekly. As i feel that this is much safer than random ONS.

To cut the story short... i zoom in to the recent past year. I was having a few fever recurring every couple of month that doctor had no idea what causes it. During this period, i had fun with my regular sex buddy(a married man). I am perfectly fine. Until Mar10 period i was hospitalise due to high fever close to 40 dc. I am very irritated by this fever that i have on and off every few month that i request to see a specialist. I took a few blood test including HIV.

last month, i went back to get my blood test report. Upon stepping in, my doctor tell me immediately "I have a bad news for you, YOU ARE HIV positive!!" My soul is gone, i couldn't accept what i heard... I was thinking to myself, what did i do? Who pass this disease to me? I really cannot recall, as my sex partner really isn't alot. They are still perfectly fine to me, as we still keep in touch. BUT, the reality is... I am contacted with HIV without knowing the source it's from.

The purpose of me writing this, i hope those who are still negative better think about the consequences. Those married, please be careful as you are married under singapore law, if you are HIV +, your spouse will get know under singapore law. For those who are single and young, (oh by the way, i am 31yo this year... LOL!!!), better start saving money and do investment. I hope to encourage those HIV+, who is currently having depression, shunning away from friends, thinking of ending your life... PLEASE DON'T!!!! I walk out from it, 7 days after i know it. You can too! We still have the right to live on... We WON'T DIE!!!! Protect yourself by boosting your immune system... maintaining it at the optimum level for your CD4 count above 500, you will be fine!!

Last but not least, i will like to advise those who bring revengence thought whom think that why you have to go thru all these... who passes HIV to you. Please don't have revengence thought maybe by going to Sauna and sex with anyone RAW!! The person who pass HIV to you, you hated him but yet you pass it to another victim, he will also hate you (You aren't different from the person you got HIV from). There is no end to it, its a vicious cycle. Let's live on and lead a healthy lifestyle. Hope everyone healthy!!

Peace!

[Guest Guest]

u did not practise safe sex w ur sex buddy i believe.

anyway its good u take it well.

[Guest Vivien Westwood]

Want to enjoy and yet dun know how to takecare of yourself. Better stay at home and do some soul searching... :thumb:

You dun even love your own body, no point cry mother and cry father. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Guest osrich]

Thanks for sharing One month HIV +.

I think you've chosen the right attitude towards your condition. It's no longer important to find out who infected you.It won't make you HIV -ve even if you know who.

It's more important to move on with your life.

Sometimes it may be a curse in disguise. It's only when we're struck with a life threatening illness like HIV, cancer... that trigger a wake up call to examine our life purpose. When we realised there's limited time left to achieve our dreams, it help us focus, to regain control over our lives.

[Guest guest123]

Want to enjoy and yet dun know how to takecare of yourself. Better stay at home and do some soul searching... :thumb:

You dun even love your own body, no point cry mother and cry father. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Shut up bitch. He has given his true experience and he is advising us to be extra careful. I feel sorry for him but

for morons like u, u deserve hell for sure.

[Guest Guest]

My true story -

I am a curious straight who lead a straight life attached with a gf almost 4 yrs ago, but i realise something isn't right in the relationship.

Slowly i become a bi and broke off with my gf. Finally I am out to this circle, till now it's close to 4 yrs.

As i was new to this circle, AJ sex is really interesting to me. Going to club, getting to know new friends... leading a whole

new life like never before.

/

/

Last but not least, i will like to advise those who bring revengence thought whom think that why you have to go thru all these... who passes HIV to you. Please don't have revengence thought maybe by going to Sauna and sex with anyone RAW!! The person who pass HIV to you, you hated him but yet you pass it to another victim, he will also hate you (You aren't different from the person you got HIV from). There is no end to it, its a vicious cycle. Let's live on and lead a healthy lifestyle. Hope everyone healthy!!

Peace!

That's the consequences you have to pay for doing raw. Yes I know the HIV+ person who deliberately pass this virus to you is wrong, but you yourself are also wrong for not taking a very simple precaution which is to use condom.

Even if you want to hate anybody, you shouldn't hate the person who passed this virus to you, you should hate YOURSELF for getting yourself into trouble.

Thanks for sharing your story, I hope that all people who read his story will realize the risk of having bareback sex and be enlightened. It may be fun for 1-2 hours of your sexual activity, but you have to pay it with your life! Dun play play!

[Guest One month HIV +]

That's the consequences you have to pay for doing raw. Yes I know the HIV+ person who deliberately pass this virus to you is wrong, but you yourself are also wrong for not taking a very simple precaution which is to use condom.

Even if you want to hate anybody, you shouldn't hate the person who passed this virus to you, you should hate YOURSELF for getting yourself into trouble.

Thanks for sharing your story, I hope that all people who read his story will realize the risk of having bareback sex and be enlightened. It may be fun for 1-2 hours of your sexual activity, but you have to pay it with your life! Dun play play!

Wow! Thanks everyone for reading. I need to clarify on the above.

The purpose of me writing here is to advise people on the risk of even not having bareback just by rubbing outside anal like simulating anal sex might still get HIV infection. In any event of body fluid flow outside... Many pple think that i am just rubbing simulating anal sex but i didn't enter him will be safer.

Next is... I am referring to hatred as in, i know alot of people whom first getting the HIV will start to pin point who is the culprit that infected him, if he isn't in th right frame of mind in order to make him feel better is to make everyone else around him to be like him. I am hoping that this kind of people will think twice before you action. In fact, when i get to know about my own condition, i didn't hate anyone because i don't even know how i got it. Just live with it, likeas if i am letting the viral to use my body as it's vessel. We shall live together so long as the virus remain calm.

[Guest Guest]

how much does ur medicine cost?

what other symptoms u get other than recurring high fever? what about coughing? skin rash anything? loss of weight?

[Guest One month HIV +]

how much does ur medicine cost?

what other symptoms u get other than recurring high fever? what about coughing? skin rash anything? loss of weight?

I am not a professional to advise you on this. My understanding from doctor is local sg is minimum $1200/mth.

There is generic medicine overseas but how much i don't know, heard its about half the price locally.

The symptom i got is, diarrhoea very often for about a week during last yr oct10.

Other than diarrhoea is sore throat and recurring fever close to 40deg.

Oh yah, during Mar10, i got weird rashes around my abs but it subside after a week.

Nothing else and i can function as per normal.

[Guest ABC]

Very brave of you to come out and share your story to the unwary.

Kudos to you man :clap:

[Guest Guest]

I am not a professional to advise you on this. My understanding from doctor is local sg is minimum $1200/mth.

There is generic medicine overseas but how much i don't know, heard its about half the price locally.

The symptom i got is, diarrhoea very often for about a week during last yr oct10.

Other than diarrhoea is sore throat and recurring fever close to 40deg.

Oh yah, during Mar10, i got weird rashes around my abs but it subside after a week.

Nothing else and i can function as per normal.

den u didnt take any medicine now?

i went AFA for quick test before..heard thailand medicine is cheaper alot.

[briax]

I am sure everyone here who are sexually active will have sex with a HIV positive person unknowingly. And seriously, in a lot of casual sexual encounters, I am sure very few guys will hold a checklist and ask if the hot guy who is driving you mad if he is HIV +.

Given the unfortunate stigmas and discrimination faced by a HIV + person in Singapore, hardly anyone will reveal his status to you, unless he believed in doing so or wanted to develop a relationship further with you. And honestly, if he decides to, I think that means you are worth his attention and upfront about it. I will not use 'his honesty' because it will be wrong to suggest that anyone who do not reveal his status as dishonest, given the social context we have in Singpore.

Many of my HIV positive friends are living a really healthy life and there is no way you can tell if they are positive or not. It might sound like a old tape recorder to many of you, but there is no way you can contract HIV from anyone in casual contact unless you are one of those who trust useless email spams stories. There are also serodiscordant couple (HIV - and HIV +) whom I know personally who lead a very healthy relationship. They just have to be more careful and innovative in their sexual activities with each other. Unless you are the believer of having non-protective anal sex in order to show your love for your partner, having sex with someone who is HIV + is not any more challenging or 'dumb'as some of you said.

Being able to talk about HIV + status openly with someone is like coming out the second time for many HIV + people. Going on frequent trips to Thailand to get the medication can be one of the best solution for many who go under the radar in Singapore, but just imagine the anxiety the person need to go through each time there is a riot or protest in Bangkok. And apart from medication, many of our HIV + friends simply need emotional support from friends and loved ones.

Everything aside, if you wanted to make sure you stay safe and play as much/long as you want, just use a condom with anyone whom you do not know the status. Find out more about HIV and other STIs and avoid using unkind labels like dumb on others or keep thinking a HIV+ person deserve it or face a death sentence. We all die one day, because of anything and everything.

Edited May 30, 2010 by briax

[GachiMuchi]

Thanks Briax for the post. Lets hope that those whom are ignorant can understand and realised that they should not discriminate those who are HIV+.

[Summer]

I am not a professional to advise you on this. My understanding from doctor is local sg is minimum $1200/mth.

There is generic medicine overseas but how much i don't know, heard its about half the price locally.

The symptom i got is, diarrhoea very often for about a week during last yr oct10.

Other than diarrhoea is sore throat and recurring fever close to 40deg.

Oh yah, during Mar10, i got weird rashes around my abs but it subside after a week.

Nothing else and i can function as per normal.

Firstly, let me state that I am not here to dispute what you have mentioned about your HIV status, mode of infection and symptoms.

The chances of HIV infection through rubbing outside the anus are very very slim, as the matter of fact, almost a non existent. Not that it would not occur, but there are no documented case of HIV infection through this mode in the entire HIV epidemic of many many years. Guess, "one month HIV +" is the first one who got infected, without unprotected anal sex or needle sharing.

Just in case, if our "Guest" was looking for symptoms to "see" if you are infected. Symptoms are not indicative of HIV infection. The symptoms of Primary HIV infection (or ARS) are not specific. By the way, the rashes of "one month HIV" was not indicative of ARS. It happened too far apart from the rest of the symptoms.

[Summer]

.......Next is... I am referring to hatred as in, i know alot of people whom first getting the HIV will start to pin point who is the culprit that infected him, if he isn't in th right frame of mind in order to make him feel better is to make everyone else around him to be like him. I am hoping that this kind of people will think twice before you action. In fact, when i get to know about my own condition, i didn't hate anyone because i don't even know how i got it. Just live with it, likeas if i am letting the viral to use my body as it's vessel. We shall live together so long as the virus remain calm.

Personally, hatred or not, the contacts tracing is very vital in such an incident because the other party may not know his HIV status and continue to infect others. It is not so much of pointing finger to the "culprit". Also, if you have done any unprotected sex during this period, the other guy/s may be infected too. Hence, the contact tracing is crucial in HIV prevention.

I am not referring to this per incident, just in general. I believe as you are diagnose, your doctor, counselor would have advise you on such matters. Btw, have you done all the "counts", how?

[TheVisitors]

" Humanity wishes to liberate itself from fear, powerlessness and lovelessness. Through AIDS, one discovers that TRUST in oneself, Consciousness-power, and Love are the true medicine for the psychological causes of misery in the world.

After AIDs, the world can look completely different. With this remedy, one will cure AIDS. Medicine can be helpful, but no therapy or drugs offers the TRUE and define cure: the true vaccine is present in everyone of us, except that it is not used.

Love of yourself. Belief in the power of your consciousness and the healing influence on your body this will have.

Don't block your healing process by doubting your possibilties. It is only because one's conviction that AIDS will ultimately "must" lead to death that this then happens.

You recover from whatever illness if your convictions. your longings, and your Belief in your "I" lead you to healing.

Now, finally, be born in yourslef; accept yourself as you are, acknowledge yourself and warmly appreciate yourself.

Cherish your body as if it were a small loveless child who still has to learn to walk and grow but who this time feels "welcome" as a precious bit of divinity. Allow it to become the conscious of the healing energies which constantly flow from its deepest essense. Trust this Self, have faith in the healing mechanism of your nature, and it will heal you - if you truly want ...to live. Don't paralyze your immune system by rejecting your worthiness and your right to love.

Considering the psychological causes of AIDS, its is to be expected THAT THE ILLNESS WAS FOUND IN POPULATION GROUPS THAT CONSIDERED THEMSELVES MOST DISCRIMINATED AGAINST.

Free yourelf, en masse, of the feeing of being victimized (discriminated) , and lovingly appreciate yourself, as highly unique individual, with A SPECIFIC NATURE ( here means your sexual orientation)"

By Christiane Beerlandt - The Key To Self Liberation

I am currently reading her book (717pages) where she deals ithe the various illness and diseases human are experiencing.

Incidentally, I read to the page and chapter regarding AIDS

You may agree or disagree - just a food for thought. Perhaps one day it could be a very potential theraphy, our human mind, spirit and body have not yet understood ourselves, and what exist in us fully

[slayer]

Indeed... and to our brave one who just bared his soul to us (albeit anonymously), one of the key elements to keeping your CD4 count in check is to have a positive (no pun intended) outlook. A healthy mental state goes a long way in keeping the ailment at bay.

Why do I say that? Some of the +ve people I know do not even need medication and as long as they upkeep their present healthy state, eat right, gym right, and as long as their CD4 count doesn't fluctuate much... They won't need to be on meds at all.

I do hope that is the case for you. Do not let trivial things tie you down and allow yourself to be depressed. Stay happy.

Now THAT being said, there is also a bunch of people who along the way got infected, but didn't even manifest the fever and sore throats as the body fights the virus when it enters. So these symptoms aren't always available as a tell-tale sign we have got infected. The best way to tell if you are sexually active, is still to go and get tested.

[tanetalz]

Heya. Recently I was on IRC and I chatted with a HIV+ guy. The chat started innocently enough. But as wee progressed, I realised that he had a deep core of depression. It would be condescending of me to say that I can understand, I don't think anyone who is HIV-, truly can understand - but I did feel sad for him. Such a young man to have to face such a devastating condition.

What then shocked and frightened me to a large extent was not his fatalism - but the actions that sprang from that fatalism. I hope that what he shared is untrue. But in essence, he fshared that his status gave him a carte blanche pass to unrestrained sexual encounters. He told me that since he found out he was HIV+, he had no more 'STOP' button. Basically anything goes...

He spoke of going to saunas more freely and being open to unprotected sex - afterall according to him, the worst had already happened. He spoke of trolling the irc and other places for opportunities to engage in orgies or 3somes. He said he felt 'liberated' by the virus.

He did not discourage people from having unprotected sex with him. But equally he would not insist on protected sex. His argument is that everyone in Singapore knows about the risk of HIV and it was not his job to educate anyone further. He had no qualms if his partner removed the condom during sex or ask him to remove it. He said its none of his business.

I reminded him that there are STIs other than HIV and that he could still catch them. He blithely told me that he was recently diagnosed with chlamydia and simply went to the DSC to swallow one pill (and that was it!). He thought it was a hoot to see how many STIs he could catch and get cured from before he dies.

I really do not want to judge him - but he really confused and upset me.

I am certain that had I not spent the time patiently chatting with him that his HIV status and his exploits thereafter would not have come up. He started telling me these things when he realised that there would be no chance to hook-up sexually and spent time chatting with me instead.

He does not have a fixed nick and we did not exchange pics - and I can't identify him even if I wanted to.

He abruptly ended our chat when he found someone that night.

I hope that what he told me is some twisted fantasy and despite it all, I do hope that the person I chatted with does not have HIV. Or that he behaves in a cavalier manner to spread it to others.

He does make one point, gentlemen, we all have been educated thoroughly or have access to agencies that can educate us, we are responsible for our own health.

[zcbm101]

Oh my...that is shocking. Similarly, I cannot understand why someone would knowingly infect someone else (or deliberately not prevent an infection). However, I also recognise that as a HIV- person, I don't understand what it is like to discover you are infected, to deal with telling your family, to suffer the effects, to be ostracised.

I agree that we all have very accessible information about HIV now. We should educate ourselves, resist the temptation to do without protection, and live responsibly. HIV infected or not, we cannot behave in an irresponsible manner.

[tanetalz]

Well, what he did or did not do - is up to his conscience.

No one is responsible for me except myself.

His response comes from deep depression - I guess. But nothing - except myself, stops me from putting on a condom. Or in my case remaining faithful to my partner

[Guest hmmm]

hmm...

i believe if he knowingly passes the virus to someone (without warning the guy), he could be punished by the law. not too sure of that though?

[Guest Guest]

Just live and let live , i have seen the real gay community and most people have that kind of attitude that because someone pass the HIV virus to moi without informing me then the infected person feels it is only fair to return the favor to the next person he will have sex with . just give away what was given to me . heh heh.

It is a real and happening phenomena , just deal with it .

Of course there will be some moral pussy who will judge the right and wrong of this phenomena because the person starting the argument is hiv negative in the first place and therefore feels he is at risk one day of meeting a spreader in one of his encounters where he could not resist a sexual encounter and feels he himself is put at risk of infection.This is a valid fear but nonetheless starting from a fear response and very heart closing.

By and large the gay community are full of selfish pricks who are only after sexual release at any cost and at all costs.

The ' responsible' and conscienable ones are a small small small minority.

Just face it. I actually hate the gay community for all these reasons.

Therefore I am in a committed and mutually faithful long term happy relationship with my partner and we have been together for over 15 years and we are still happy together everyday and we make each other happy everyday.

Sexually , we have grown to a point that we are soul mates and we communicate sexually on a deeper level and I don't feel the need to expose myself to risky encounters with total strangers at the local saunas and cruising places.

The local saunas is a place full of pricks and self centered people who are forced to have quick release one time encounters and stuck up people and i am glad I only go there occasionally to look and see and feel so fortunate I am to have found my prince charming.

Ranting here in this forum is not gonna stop people from doing what they are gonna do.

[tanetalz]

Different people react to adversity in different ways. I am certain that the guy I spoke to is not typical. But speaking to a friend who is a counsellor, in the cycle of grief and loss, people can experience great anger. Some of that anger is against themselves and some of it can be directed towards others. People with so much anger in them may do things they regret in future. But by which time the damage has already been done.

The law may protect us after a misdeed/crime has been committed - but would you want to be the one to have slept with someone, gotten an STI from him and then see him punished by the law?

He may be punished - but you'd have the STI.

We must protect ourselves.

[tanetalz]

Just live and let live , i have seen the real gay community and most people have that kind of attitude that because someone pass the HIV virus to moi without informing me then the infected person feels it is only fair to return the favor to the next person he will have sex with . just give away what was given to me . heh heh.

It is a real and happening phenomena , just deal with it .

Of course there will be some moral pussy who will judge the right and wrong of this phenomena because the person starting the argument is hiv negative in the first place and therefore feels he is at risk one day of meeting a spreader in one of his encounters where he could not resist a sexual encounter and feels he himself is put at risk of infection.This is a valid fear but nonetheless starting from a fear response and very heart closing.

By and large the gay community are full of selfish pricks who are only after sexual release at any cost and at all costs.

The ' responsible' and conscienable ones are a small small small minority.

Just face it. I actually hate the gay community for all these reasons.

Therefore I am in a committed and mutually faithful long term happy relationship with my partner and we have been together for over 15 years and we are still happy together everyday and we make each other happy everyday.

Sexually , we have grown to a point that we are soul mates and we communicate sexually on a deeper level and I don't feel the need to expose myself to risky encounters with total strangers at the local saunas and cruising places.

The local saunas is a place full of pricks and self centered people who are forced to have quick release one time encounters and stuck up people and i am glad I only go there occasionally to look and see and feel so fortunate I am to have found my prince charming.

Ranting here in this forum is not gonna stop people from doing what they are gonna do.

I indeed congratulate you on your monogamy - however my post is not a rant. For me it was an eye-opener. And if, I can be naive about such things, perhaps others are just as naive. And if it helps to open someone's eyes - I am content.

Not all have your great good fortune to be monogamously coupled and yet be so aware of the gay community and some of its practices.

I don't make any moral judgement - contrary to your belief. I am saddened that such a thing can happen and perhaps share that with others.

Lastly, I take exception to your presumption that the entire gay community is selfish and that unlike you, we would all succumb to our base urges. I have seen the efforts of the AFA volunteers and I have read posts by members encouraging others or giving good advice. Perhaps you would consider such people moral pussies, in your crudity. If so, count me in.

[Guest Guest]

.....on IRC and I chatted with a HIV+ guy...........What then shocked and frightened me to a large extent was not his fatalism - but the actions that sprang from that fatalism.......in essence, he fshared that his status gave him a carte blanche pass to unrestrained sexual encounters. He told me that since he found out he was HIV+, he had no more 'STOP' button. Basically anything goes...........

Tell you what will shock & frighten me NOT to a large extent BUT COMPLETELY - Someone read your post and actually exclaimed in disbelief of the guy's action - "Oh my god, you mean there are people out there who will knowingly pass the virus around!!! Oh my god, I wanna tear....Oh my god"

Hello~~~~~~~~~~~~Wake up lah, if everyone is responsible, there wouldn't be law to govern our actions and protect the rights/safety of innocent right. Wah Piang.............Don't act like a little innocent girl from WONDERLAND lah, come back to reality.

People know they should not abuse animals, ill-treat parents, gang fights, arson, vandalize, drink-drive-knock-run(back to their country)- BUT THEY STILL DO IT.........you mean when you hear of such things happening you shock and frightened? If such things you don't, then why this guy's action you will? To me you are such a drama queen.

GO to a shrink........

[Guest Guest]

Mati..now I worried that our Alice will be "shocked & frightened" to know someone asked her to wake up........ :blink:

Dont know whether will worsen her medical condition.......... :wacko:

[tanetalz]

Tell you what will shock & frighten me NOT to a large extent BUT COMPLETELY - Someone read your post and actually exclaimed in disbelief of the guy's action - "Oh my god, you mean there are people out there who will knowingly pass the virus around!!! Oh my god, I wanna tear....Oh my god"

Hello~~~~~~~~~~~~Wake up lah, if everyone is responsible, there wouldn't be law to govern our actions and protect the rights/safety of innocent right. Wah Piang.............Don't act like a little innocent girl from WONDERLAND lah, come back to reality.

People know they should not abuse animals, ill-treat parents, gang fights, arson, vandalize, drink-drive-knock-run(back to their country)- BUT THEY STILL DO IT.........you mean when you hear of such things happening you shock and frightened? If such things you don't, then why this guy's action you will? To me you are such a drama queen.

GO to a shrink........

You are of course entitled to your opinion - this is not a perfect world and yes if everyone were perfectly responsible, then perhaps we would not need to be reminded of what is right or wrong. However, since it is not a perfect world, we need to be brought back to reality. Not everyone has your great fortune to be so knowledgeable of every aspect of our gay culture. But by your skewed logic therefore, just because a minority is irresponsible, that the rest of us should sit by and in your words, 'Live and let live'? I do not think so - especially if we can share experiences or knowledge. As many othes in this forum unselfishly do.

And surely, if there is a group who is unaware - is it wrong to enlighten them?

Hurl whatever crudities and sling whatever personal attacks you wish but if someone out there learns something - I am content to have been constructive.

[Guest Guest]

You are of course entitled to your opinion - this is not a perfect world and yes if everyone were perfectly responsible, then perhaps we would not need to be reminded of what is right or wrong. However, since it is not a perfect world, we need to be brought back to reality. Not everyone has your great fortune to be so knowledgeable of every aspect of our gay culture. But by your skewed logic therefore, just because a minority is irresponsible, that the rest of us should sit by and in your words, 'Live and let live'? I do not think so - especially if we can share experiences or knowledge. As many othes in this forum unselfishly do.

And surely, if there is a group who is unaware - is it wrong to enlighten them?

Hurl whatever crudities and sling whatever personal attacks you wish but if someone out there learns something - I am content to have been constructive.

Sorry Alice..........don't be angry.....sayang (that is what you have been longing for?????? kuai kuai)

You also say need to be brought back to reality hor......good good......still can save......

Ah Girl, no need to be knowledgeable of EVERY aspect of our gay culture lah, JUST don't be TOTALLY IGNORANT until little bit of thing will shock and frightened loh............I also never say EVERY aspect leh......and hor, being responsible or not has NOTHING to do with gay culture but everything to do with HUMAN NATURE.........(pet your hair again, kuai kuai)

If you said everyone is entitled to his opinion then why you say I "skewed logic"??????? Also "Live and Let Live" not I say one, why you stuff words into my mouth (just stuff cocks, but not the guy from IRC har......kuai kuai) - Aiyoyo, Alice ah.......I understand you want people to praise you with adjectives like "Righteous", "Noble", "Selfless Sharing of Knowledge", but that doesn't mean all opposing views are "crudities" mah.....If others are entitled to their opinions, then they should not be termed "skewed", "crudities" etc...........of all people, lest I expect you to use such terms, you must practise what you preached............I am so shocked and frightened (I wanna tear).

I must get real........

[tanetalz]

Sorry Alice..........don't be angry.....sayang (that is what you have been longing for?????? kuai kuai)

You also say need to be brought back to reality hor......good good......still can save......

Ah Girl, no need to be knowledgeable of EVERY aspect of our gay culture lah, JUST don't be TOTALLY IGNORANT until little bit of thing will shock and frightened loh............I also never say EVERY aspect leh......and hor, being responsible or not has NOTHING to do with gay culture but everything to do with HUMAN NATURE.........(pet your hair again, kuai kuai)

If you said everyone is entitled to his opinion then why you say I "skewed logic"??????? Also "Live and Let Live" not I say one, why you stuff words into my mouth (just stuff cocks, but not the guy from IRC har......kuai kuai) - Aiyoyo, Alice ah.......I understand you want people to praise you with adjectives like "Righteous", "Noble", "Selfless Sharing of Knowledge", but that doesn't mean all opposing views are "crudities" mah.....If others are entitled to their opinions, then they should not be termed "skewed", "crudities" etc...........of all people, lest I expect you to use such terms, you must practise what you preached............I am so shocked and frightened (I wanna tear).

I must get real........

Entitled to your opinion does not mean that your opinion is sound logically. The kernel of your beliefs are yours but surely crudities you sling does not constitute opinions - they constitute the process by which you share your opinions.

And how does not become aware of something? How does someone gain knowledge? When you learn or experience something.

I value meaningful adjectives not sarcasms or imfantile taunts.

The mongrel may bark at the moon but the moon sails on unconcerned.

[Guest another guest]

What surprise me most is that after so many decades of Aids, there are still so many gays who are so innocent about the fact that there are selfish HIV+ gays around.

Please wake up... this has been going on for years. So please be responsible for your own actions. In sauna and casual encounters, just be safe then sorry.

[tanetalz]

Its a funny thing more than 20 years on that people can still contemplate unprotected sex or engage in other activities that could lead to contracting the disease. I find it ironic that people are willing to take what seems to be unnecessary risks with their lives. Perhaps new drug technologies available (eg. antiretroviral treatments - available even in Singapore) could cause some to have a sense of security. Would perhaps buying and using the rapidtest kit for HIV deepen the sense of bravado that we do not need to take precautions?

It boils down to education and from that education, you make choices. But it starts by being aware. Which is what the post was about. I highlighted one individual I chatted with who exhibited behaviour that was sad and also frightening. Sad for obvious reasons but also frightening because there is very little literature about the epidemiology of HIV spread by callous deliberation or aggressive inattention to HIV status. I suspect this is a new phenomenon.

It indicates that there are gaps within the educative process. Perhaps more effort needs to be spend to help HIV+ come to terms with their anger and urge to lash out. There are urban legends about blood-filled syringes randomly left in cinema seats with the purpose infecting the innocent. Maybe this stems from a real incident or maybe it is symptomatic of the rage that the HIV+ sufferers enperience all alone. These represent or suggest gaps in our processes of helping.

Perhaps there should be more platforms 'to nag' people to practice either Abstinence, Being faithful to one partner or Condom Usage. The latter holds true during oral sex.

It is very easy to simply stand by and say 'wake up'. You are right to say that we must protect ourselves. That was also the gist of what I was saying before the chat was hijacked by meaningless comments. Being able to protect ourselves means that we start from a platform of knowledge. However, I do feel that as a gay community, we must help each other out as much as we can. We certainly can't force a condom onto a dick but we can share things we have learnt and come across. Perhaps such messages are unnecessary for those who already know. What about those who still don't?

I would not want to proceed with such arrogance and condescension to stand by and proclaim that everyone is educated and so if they get AIDS - too bad. Nor do I believe that it is the minority of gays that are selfless. Hence, the post. It costs nothing but perhaps it can help serve as a wake up call. And is that really a bad thing?

Yes, we should wake up when we lack exposure to knowledge or experience - but we do wake up when people ring the bell to catch our attention.

Edited July 27, 2010 by tanetalz

[deceptiveeyes.deceivingminds]

Hi Tanetalz,

I appreciate what you wrote and your kind intention to make aware once more that there will always be reckless and irresponsible people out there.

I think its an apt and timely reminder.

Thank you for sharing.

Cheers!

[Guest me]

i totally agree with you tanetalz. no matter how aware we are or we are supposed to be, it's different. It would also send chill down my spine if i were to chat with someone who is callously spreading the virus. we know that people like this exist but i don't think anyone is prepared to be confronted by one. thank you sharing!

[Guest Butted]

i totally agree with you tanetalz. no matter how aware we are or we are supposed to be, it's different. It would also send chill down my spine if i were to chat with someone who is callously spreading the virus. we know that people like this exist but i don't think anyone is prepared to be confronted by one. thank you sharing!

Same as talking to a killer on the loose but not targeting you.

[tanetalz]

Hi,

Rather than vilifing a just turned 20yo guy, it is better learn to protect ourselves if we can't Abstain or Be faithful to one partner (Sorry - MOH messages). Condom usage is not foolproof but still is something. Before anyone flames me, I know that NOTHING excuses what may have been done.

And I know that it may not be common practice during oral sex, but:

(1) Using effective barrier methods such as condoms or latex dental dams. In the absence of barrier methods, men should avoid ejaculating

in their partners' mouths.

(2) Being aware of sores, discharge, or unpleasant odors from your partner's genitals - signs to avoid oral sex.

(3) Not flossing and brushing teeth before oral sex. It might give you better breath, but it may also tear the lining of the mouth,

increasing the exposure to viruses. Many btms love to be romanced and kissed and no one wants to kiss a dirty mouth but still... Not

sure if using mouth wash is also a good idea

(4) Avoiding aggressive and deep thrusting in oral sex, which can damage throat tissues and increase susceptibility for throat-based

gonorrhea, herpes and abrasions.

I apologise if this is old news to many out there but... education is the first step.

And yes, I am aware that there have been few documented cases of contracting AIDS through oral sex. But the same cannot be said for herpes (which is also incurable) or contracting HPV - that can cause anal, oral and genital warts

[Guest Guest]

You know what you're doing. Do NOT do things that will harm yourself and expected others to morally protect you. This is a cruel world and we have to protect and take care of ourselves. If you're afraid, stop doing casual sex now. Otherwise, there is always a chance of contacting STD, HIV etc with condoms.

[azuchan]

This phenomena is nothing new. You should read about bug chasing. It's a reality.

Look, there are so many different kinds of risks. Oral sex, protected or unprotected, can transmit diseases. Anal sex, protected or unprotected, can transmit diseases. You calculate the risks, and take the necessary steps to overcome them. To me, it does not boil down to education. Yes, sure, education is important insomuch that you need to have the knowledge of the risks and the ways to mitigate the risks. What is more important to me is the application of the knowledge you have from educating yourself in your sexual lives, e.g. proper lubrication and lubrication methods to minimize the risk of tearing of the skin membranes and tissues during anal sex, can help reduce greatly the risk of transmission of STIs whether wearing a condom or not.

I'm not advocating having bareback sex. Neither am I advocating only having protected sex. All I am saying is that equipped with the knowledge of such risks and how they are minimized, what are you going to do about it, knowing there are such people around in our community?

Edited July 28, 2010 by azuchan

[Guest Guest]

is it true that even if u have sex with HIV+, u will not 100% get it from him?

[tanetalz]

This phenomena is nothing new. You should read about bug chasing. It's a reality.

Look, there are so many different kinds of risks. Oral sex, protected or unprotected, can transmit diseases. Anal sex, protected or unprotected, can transmit diseases. You calculate the risks, and take the necessary steps to overcome them. To me, it does not boil down to education. Yes, sure, education is important insomuch that you need to have the knowledge of the risks and the ways to mitigate the risks. What is more important to me is the application of the knowledge you have from educating yourself in your sexual lives, e.g. proper lubrication and lubrication methods to minimize the risk of tearing of the skin membranes and tissues during anal sex, can help reduce greatly the risk of transmission of STIs whether wearing a condom or not.

I'm not advocating having bareback sex. Neither am I advocating only having protected sex. All I am saying is that equipped with the knowledge of such risks and how they are minimized, what are you going to do about it, knowing there are such people around in our community?

Personally I can equipt myself as you have indicated. But what about the law-makers? The law-makers may determine that the epidemiology of HIV spread has changed to include wilful spread of the virus. Then legislature can come in (which may not necessarily be a bad thing) and then there could be the potential for witch-hunts targetting the HIV+ community.

Could that extend to include how bath-houses are run? What next? Perhaps nothing.

If we as a community cannot govern ourselves - then governance will come from without.

Someone made the comment earlier about moral obligation to protect others. But surely, if gays do not stand up and help each other - who will help us?

[Dandriel]

is it true that even if u have sex with HIV+, u will not 100% get it from him?

Its true and it depends on what intercouse. If we were to assume that there will be some form of penetration, there runs a risk. However, a risk is not $!^*( so best to be safe then sorry yes? :)Oral consumption of sperm without exposure to any open wound in the mouth is the least risk in terms of exposure because ur stomach acid will destroy the HIV (or so I've heard x.x, I cant verify the authencity). But anal is the highest possible chance of being expose.

Btw Tantez (pardon if i got ur name wrongly well written and shared. In terms of the content and the way you shared it Contrary to how some people would assume, I think this serves as a timely reminder more than a discovery yes? Cheers.

[sonnabend]

is it true that even if u have sex with HIV+, u will not 100% get it from him?

it's not 100%, but around 95-99.99%, being bot has higher risk than top.

[Guest Guest]

Tenetaiz

Please let it be known that when one becomes positive with the virus, he has a .."carte blanca.." to carry on sex freely cos he has nothing more to fear or loose. That is a very wrong misconception. The fact of the matter is that he may be infected a second time. And the second infection may be fatal cos the virus is of different strains and more deadly. The virus mutates from body to body.