Remembering Old Saunas in Singapore

[Guest TheBoxer]

1 hour ago, Guest list said:

list of Gay saunas which had since closed

1. Spartacus (Closed, moved and renamed to Stroke)(since 2000)
2. Stroke (Closed, moved and renamed to RAW)(since 2003)
3. V-Club (Closed, moved and renamed to Sphere)(since 2004)
4. Sphere (since 2006)
5. Rairua (since 2006)
6. Papilion (since 2005)
7. The Box (Changed to new owner, moved and renamed to Shogun)(since 2003)
8. Towel Club @ Sg (Only Towel Club HK still in operation)(since 2008)
9. RAW (Closed, moved and renamed to The Heater Room and now Queen Resort) (since 2008)
10. Diamond (Diamond changed owner and renamed to New Diamond, moved and renamed to Hercules Club)(since 2009)
11. Y Club (since 2010)
12. New Blue Heaven (since 2010)

13. Queens Resort (same boss with now defunct Heater Room, Raw, Stroke & Spartacus) (Closed since May 2014)

14. Absolute (Discussion link), (Discussion link 2), (Discussion link 3) (Closed since 1st July 2014)

15. Club One Seven (Disucssion Link) (Closed since Jan 2014)
16. Keybox (Discussion Link) (Closed since 22 June 2014) and (reopen 10 Feb 2015 at Former Club One Seven location)

 

 

 

didn't know that Shogun is actually evolved from The Box.... very different in style...

 

The Box was short lived but one of my favorites due to its 'uniqueness'... i can still remember the heavy metal chains used as doorway curtain 

 

[upshot]

7 hours ago, Vometra said:

 

Ooooooo loved FR. Used to suntan there nude, among other things ... and I always like a bit of wilderness and greenery.

 

Best kind of sauna place  hahahahahah....

[fetish69]

Upshot I totally agreed with nothing like FR can get nice even tan plus greenery and also u will meet ur preference best if the guys is wild fuck in the open with nice cold breeze.

[upshot]

1 hour ago, fetish69 said:

Upshot I totally agreed with nothing like FR can get nice even tan plus greenery and also u will meet ur preference best if the guys is wild fuck in the open with nice cold breeze.

 

Anyone remember that crazy chap(s) who tie himself to the tree and lay out an assortment of aanal toys to use on him or you can also fuck him heh... I have met some strange but also nice guys there.. from suntanning to dipping in the season night or day. I think many turn to sauna and other places when it became too "hot" for all the wrong reasons (Press, police and curious people who stumble there) but also now it is being developed into something difference.. hard to go there to relive the old days of notti fun.

 

Sauna are fun I guess but rather restrictive in the kind of people available there if you have particular taste or just too few to choose from.

 

Wah some of the sauna names have not heard in a long time.  Pretty hot topics on these sauna at one time.

[tienkan]

The sauna at Tampines SaFra gym and  NTUC Pasir Ris Resort during the 1980s.

 

 

[Guest Corbin]

I miss Crazy Horse. I hope they can bring back Crazy Horse!!!

[Guest Remembers]

Not "Ex" because still on -- otot2 first one in southern region . Many do not remember that Malaysia had saunas already while SG still had harassment, police entrapment and newspaper IC exposes.. 

[amicablyalan]

Rairua and it's shower/massage boys.

 

Towel club for the crowd on nude nights!

[onlylonely]

I miss the foam party events at BH

[Steve5380]

On 6/10/2017 at 2:41 AM, onlylonely said:

I miss the foam party events at BH

 

I visited Blue Heaven several times but was unaware that they had foam parties there.

[onlylonely]

I rmb it was fridays. Those were the days when i was in uni and got free entries. 

[Guest 古早味荡妇]

The suburban baths in Pompeii destroyed by Mt Vesuvius eruption in 79 AD.

[Guest Guest Client]

Created this new thread for those who still dwell in the past. 

[Guest Wahahaha]

I remember the earlier suanas almost sprung up at the same time with many critiques and suggestions due to high competition.  Now...it seems the market has more or less stablilised with just a few left and nobody dare to complain anymore.  They dynamic of the crowds has changed too, for those who were once young and picky now became the  old and rejected....wahahaha.  Those were the day.

[kimlo777]

28 minutes ago, Guest Wahahaha said:

I remember the earlier suanas almost sprung up at the same time with many critiques and suggestions due to high competition.  Now...it seems the market has more or less stablilised with just a few left and nobody dare to complain anymore.  They dynamic of the crowds has changed too, for those who were once young and picky now became the  old and rejected....wahahaha.  Those were the day.

And the current lot who are young and picky who discriminate against the old ones, will one day be old and rejected too ... hahaha.

[Guest InBangkok]

I have been to Singapore many times - maybe more than 50. Most have been 2 or 3 night business trips but a few have been for several weeks. I loved the Rairua sauna which opened in 2002. Located on Neil Road, it was billed as a more high class sauna. I believe it developed the first nude nights in a sauna in Singapore. There were never many guys there when I visited, but I always had a good time. The staff were always polite and friendly. My only problem sometimes was getting a taxi back to my hotel. Then about three years later it suddenly closed. 

[Truth]

.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Truth

[LeanMature]

3 minutes ago, Truth said:

I believe most of the older gentlemen & retirees are just there to kill time and pass the day. It will be good if there are gay npo out there that can set up some sort of free-cum-non-sex related club (别想歪hor)  to address their loneliness. The sauna operators can also contribute & give back to the LGBTQ community by donating 3 to 5% of their net profits for such good cause.    

While it pains me to see these older patrons getting shoved and shoo'd by younger sauna goers, I understand that one day I might just end up like them if I'm really not destined to meet my soulmate this lifetime. Given my strong self-pride, I will surely be very heartbroken and maybe commit suicide afterwards if I'm being treated like trash in the sauna. 

 

 

So you better learn to forget your self pride and accept rejection in a positive way before the day come when you contemplate suicide.  You have already seen it with your own eyes that oldies are being shoved and treated like trash.  It will be the same 10 to 20 years from now. 

[lonelyglobe]

Towel club is still easily the runaway hits....life is fair, everyone was once young, the young rejected the elder and one day when the young became elder, they will get rejected by the younger ones and that is when mb and social escort come into rescue.

Edited June 21, 2019 by lonelyglobe

[Guest -burgerking]

I have not been to any sauna for the past 4 years or so. I started out when I was a uni student in the early 2000s, and my first visit was to Towel Club, then I explored Blue Heaven, and then Absolute, followed by Cruise Club.

 

I have come across various people, and have seen those sweet young guys who i have had intimate encounters with, blossomed from being new unknowns to well known personalities and now aged just like everyone else. 

 

Time is indeed cruel as I am much older now and most likely can't be the desired even if i were to go today. I am glad however that I survived my sauna phase safely, with good memories to keep.

[cityhallguy]

To me, Towel Club” is the best for me. Wednesday is free for age under 24, no competition to go after yummy old guy, often had GWM too for me to play with especially in the hot-dark steam room at the very end corner and lastly the whole place smell nice too. Didn’t left with disappointment for me.

[Guest not the end]

3 hours ago, Truth said:

I believe most of the older gentlemen & retirees are just there to kill time and pass the day. It will be good if there are gay npo out there that can set up some sort of free-cum-non-sex related club (别想歪hor)  to address their loneliness. The sauna operators can also contribute & give back to the LGBTQ community by donating 3 to 5% of their net profits for such good cause.    

While it pains me to see these older patrons getting shoved and shoo'd by younger sauna goers, I understand that one day I might just end up like them if I'm really not destined to meet my soulmate this lifetime. Given my strong self-pride, I will surely be very heartbroken and maybe commit suicide afterwards if I'm being treated like trash in the sauna. 

 

 

The real truth is to have a bunch of platonic gay friends, who will entertain you through the last cycle of your life. It is very important to build a group of gays, in particular if you are single and "lonely" and not attached. You can do holiday trips or other leisure things with them. In Singapore too many gay guys become loners and don't meet other gay friends. If you look to other countries most gays mingle in their age group with friends. Yes, there is a sort of loneliness too but it is not as extreme what I always experience here in Singapore from "older" guys. I often don't understand those guys and such who haven't yet come out being 50 and above to their parents and siblings and still want to pretend not being gay.

If you listen to Steve53, it seems that the sex life doesn't end with 30. Maybe you should chose your sex partners nearer to your age in those old age days instead of trying to unsuccessfully  chase young boys. and you never know what happens, could be that there is a sauna for 50y and above in those times, which free back n neck massage from young cute boys (who love to take tipps from older chaps... ) Suicide? Never give up hope and learn to think positive...

[tinkymale]

4 hours ago, Guest InBangkok said:

I have been to Singapore many times - maybe more than 50. Most have been 2 or 3 night business trips but a few have been for several weeks. I loved the Rairua sauna which opened in 2002. Located on Neil Road, it was billed as a more high class sauna. I believe it developed the first nude nights in a sauna in Singapore. There were never many guys there when I visited, but I always had a good time. The staff were always polite and friendly. My only problem sometimes was getting a taxi back to my hotel. Then about three years later it suddenly closed. 

Omg! I love that place too. My first sauna and I really love it. 

[tinkymale]

3 hours ago, lonelyglobe said:

Towel club is still easily the runaway hits....life is fair, everyone was once young, the young rejected the elder and one day when the young became elder, they will get rejected by the younger ones and that is when mb and social escort come into rescue.

And there was still the infamous One Seven that boost the biggest Club with pool.

[Guest Wata prong prau]

5 hours ago, Guest InBangkok said:

I have been to Singapore many times - maybe more than 50. Most have been 2 or 3 night business trips but a few have been for several weeks. I loved the Rairua sauna which opened in 2002. Located on Neil Road, it was billed as a more high class sauna. I believe it developed the first nude nights in a sauna in Singapore. There were never many guys there when I visited, but I always had a good time. The staff were always polite and friendly. My only problem sometimes was getting a taxi back to my hotel. Then about three years later it suddenly closed. 

 

 

It didnt suddenly closed, I heard from someone who knows the owner that he wanted to move on to other gay related businesses, as he had proveva point that ppl can start and run a gentlemen only sauna with sex on the premises without too much objection from authorities, 

 

Once he proved h

Is point and more other business owners moved in , he decided to end the business becos profit was not his objective anyway.

 

Do google for the owners name, he likes to push the limits and envelope in reddot.

[Guest not the end]

29 minutes ago, Guest Wata prong prau said:

It didnt suddenly closed, I heard from someone who knows the owner that he wanted to move on to other gay related businesses, as he had proveva point that ppl can start and run a gentlemen only sauna with sex on the premises without too much objection from authorities, 

 

Once he proved h

Is point and more other business owners moved in , he decided to end the business becos profit was not his objective anyway.

 

Do google for the owners name, he likes to push the limits and envelope in reddot.

 

it is all online nowadays... no chance for hearsay. LOL

 

The Singapore LGBT encyclopaedia Wiki

 

 

Rairua was a 4-level gay sauna along Neil Road,  It opened in 2002 and positioned itself as Singapore's first luxury gay sauna, with prices to match. Its reputation for cleanliness was superlative as employees were tasked to clean the dark rooms every hour and the hot pool was completely drained of water and scrubbed once every few days. The name "Rairua", essentially meaningless, was chosen because it was cheaper to buy a domain name on the Internet for advertisement purposes which was not a popular word or words which would be hotly contested by other entrepreneurs.

Unfortunately, due to the expiry of its lease and disagreements with its landlord over maintenance, the proprietor and his business partners decided to close it down without any prior announcement on Monday, 25 April 2005

[Guest Sticky]

6 hours ago, -Ignored- said:

i let them play a while and then politely tell them i need to go find some sleep (to reject them nicely)

Doing something right cannot correct a wrong.  You gave them false hope  before things turn ugly.  Not money people can grasp a subtle way of rejection and  end up having a hard them shaking them off your back like sticky pad.

[Guest Sticky]

Just now, Guest Sticky said:

Doing something right cannot correct a wrong.  You gave them false hope  before things turn ugly.  Not MANY people can grasp a subtle way of rejection and  end up having a hard TIME shaking them off your back like sticky pad.

ok spelling correction.

[Steve5380]

1 hour ago, Guest Sticky said:

Doing something right cannot correct a wrong.  You gave them false hope  before things turn ugly.  Not money people can grasp a subtle way of rejection and  end up having a hard them shaking them off your back like sticky pad.

 

There was no wrong.  If something could have been somewhat wrong, that would have been an initial rejection.

It is not uncommon to allow and be allowed some light playing without serious sex,  and for older people that can be make their day.  And if you are smart you don't allow "false hope" but you sense immediately what is friendly courtesy and what is raging passion.

[Truth]

.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Truth

[Guest Guest]

11 hours ago, Guest Wahahaha said:

those who were once young and picky now became the  old and rejected....wahahaha.   

Hahahahaha.... This is so fxxking true! 

Those old and rejected now all ended up hanging in urinals. 

[Guest Guest]

51 minutes ago, Truth said:

Unfortunately, I will only response and copulate with those that I'm attracted to.

If the senior gentleman is in good shape like Ray Lui Liang-wei (62) or Hiroyuki Sanada (59), I will be down on my kneels to service them anytime.

As for those less desirable ones with poor hygiene especially, I will just reject them with a simple shake of head or a hand gesture "no". 

Ok enough of the diversion, let's get back to the topic.

Oh yes.... The type of uncle I m looking for. 

[benedict5856]

the first one i went is at Ang Siang road, near the curve of the road, before there is another one at the corner end. i not sure is it they shifted or what. First time i go, i am so excited. I remember i was served by 4-5 men at the same time, but no anal sex. Now, i think i will be one of the 4-5 men. hahahaha...

Then is The Box, where there used to be a lot of chubs then.

Then its V-club. Thats where i get to know more ppl and friends. And once they had a shower boy service. A muscular man offering to shower for u for money. many old men will book for his services. Popular at the beginning, after that standing there waiting for customer.

Then diamond, abit boring here. Went twice , i guess. i think i saw a Radio DJ, a very short man, i guess u guys will know who liao.

Then is one-seven, twice only and super boring.

Later is shogun or ten men. Mainly to watch tv.

Recently went cruise, once. Don''t like it. Super boring.... all skinny skinny men. Left after an hour.

 

Never been to Blue heaven, keybox i think i went once or twice. 

[Guest guest]

On 6/21/2019 at 3:15 PM, lonelyglobe said:

Towel club is still easily the runaway hits....life is fair, everyone was once young, the young rejected the elder and one day when the young became elder, they will get rejected by the younger ones and that is when mb and social escort come into rescue.

 

I am sure you rejected the old because he is not your type. But some old with attitude should be avoided at all cost, likewise for the young

[blueblueblue]

rairua was the best. clean and comfy

[mate69]

TC was quite good too.

[blueblueblue]

Anyone remember papillon sauna? 

[Guest InBangkok]

On 6/21/2019 at 6:13 PM, Guest Wata prong prau said:

It didnt suddenly closed, I heard from someone who knows the owner that he wanted to move on to other gay related businesses, as he had proveva point that ppl can start and run a gentlemen only sauna with sex on the premises without too much objection from authorities, 

 

Once he proved h

Is point and more other business owners moved in , he decided to end the business becos profit was not his objective anyway.

 

As another post has made clear quoting a publicly available site -  

 

Quote

Unfortunately, due to the expiry of its lease and disagreements with its landlord over maintenance, the proprietor and his business partners decided to close it down without any prior announcement on Monday, 25 April 2005

 

In other words, it suddenly closed!

•  

[Guest sggay]

I think the best was Towel Club in terms of quality.

 

So many hot guys! I wonder where they are now.

[LeanMature]

Rairua, Towel Club, 1Seven, despite being clean and well managed, all come and go.   The customer base is not big enough to sustain the high rental and utility cost despite higher entrance fee.  

[Guest memory lane]

that time was around $20 - 30, quite expensive.

Closure:

Rairua due to lease end, but in my personal view due to declining customer base. Keeping the high entry price with hefty competition didn't work.

Towel Club: I thought it was due to a dispute of the owners, like 7 "shareholders", then 3 broke away and opened Absolute. But the building went on refurbishment. Towel would have needed to move to a different location.

One Seven: Couldn't maintain the high entry S$20 - 28 with the  later competition, facilities started to run down, owner was 77y at the end. The price cut at the end to $12 was too late to achieve higher customers.

 

 

[Steve5380]

9 hours ago, Guest sggay said:

I think the best was Towel Club in terms of quality.

 

So many hot guys! I wonder where they are now.

 

I agree,  Towel Club was for me the best.  I remember in my first visit to SG in 2006 I went looking for it, and could not find the entrance.  There was just a big wooden front, and to each side entrances to the building that lead to apartments for workers.  So I stood there like 20 minutes,  until a guy came along and just pushed the wooden front and a door in it opened.  I followed, and I had one of my best sauna experiences in SG. 

 

Where are the hot guys now?  It was not so long ago, so even if by now they are "uncles", if they took good care of themselves  (is this asking for too much?) they are still attractive and now enjoy the younger ones.

 

[Steve5380]

4 hours ago, -Ignored- said:

why no  1 mentioned about another sauna ie near to current Cruise? 

someone said indians tend to frequent it but i find it a mixed of religions (not just indians) after a few visits, it was closed thereafter.
by the way , cos it has a "hostel" concept, i felt some MBs are staying at that hostel!
 

 

You are surely talking about Queen Resort, Queen Resident, former Heater Room, close to the Outram Park MRT station. 

 

I stayed there many times.  I got in friendly terms with Max Lim, the owner, who I had met at Raw.  He treated me as a good customer and I always stayed in one his suites, which were of decent size and much cheaper than a hotel.  (hotels in SG are NOT good value).   With a minimum gym and sauna, open the 24 hours, and definitely a gay place, I appreciated its proximity to Chinatown with Absolute sauna and later just a few blocks from Cruise Club.  One-seven was also at walking distance.  As a fact, I often walked from there to downtown and even to the old location of Keybox.  (I like to walk).  I remember the last renovation of the place, including the restaurant on the first floor, before the place...  disappeared!  I heard later that the owner Max had passe away  

 

I know that some gays had always consider Queen Resort as being below their DIGNITY.  

But I happen to have a very FLEXIBLE dignity   

.

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Steve5380

[Guest 5390]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Where are the hot guys now?  It was not so long ago, so even if by now they are "uncles", if they took good care of themselves  (is this asking for too much?) they are still attractive and now enjoy the younger ones.

 

 

Probably these hot guys have ‘settled down’ now with their partner and stop going to sauna or stop f*cking around. 

 

To be honest, lesser gays are going to saunas now as compared to the period from 2000 to 2010. I wonder why?

[dazza1201]

Don't need to: now you have jackd, and grindr to hook-up with guys. 

[Guest Btm Uncle]

1 hour ago, Steve5380 said:

 

You are surely talking about Queen Resort, Queen Resident, former Heater Room, close to the Outram Park MRT station. 

 

I stayed there many times.  I got in friendly terms with Max Lim, the owner, who I had met at Raw.  He treated me as a good customer and I always stayed in one his suites, which were of decent size and much cheaper than a hotel.  (hotels in SG are NOT good value).   With a minimum gym and sauna, open the 24 hours, and definitely a gay place, I appreciated its proximity to Chinatown with Absolute sauna and later just a few blocks from Cruise Club.  One-seven was also at walking distance.  As a fact, I often walked from there to downtown and even to the old location of Keybox.  (I like to walk).  I remember the last renovation of the place, including the restaurant on the first floor, before the place...  disappeared!  I heard later that the owner Max had passe away  

 

I know that some gays had always consider Queen Resort as being below their DIGNITY.  

But I happen to have a very FLEXIBLE dignity   

.

 

My dignity was even lower. I never thought about that sauna before. But it was across the road from the popular cruising place Pearl Centre.

 

One day, this uncle cruised me and wanted me to follow him across the road. I was curious where he's going until he went up that building. It was so run down and creepy with weird noises around. Anyway, we soon got down to sex in a room and he was riding me from behind. 

Then someone just pushed and the door simply opened. A few Indians watched us Chinese uncles having sex with their cocks hanging out waiting for their turn to ride me.

I felt weird and refused to carry on when they tried to barge in on us. 

I pushed them away but that uncle who's fucking me hardly resisted them. 

The 3 of them then turned to that uncle and gang banged him. OMG, I can see his ass hole being fucked until folded out in flesh red. He was enjoying it so much that his eyes were rolling white. The 3rd guy was fingering me, rimming me and preparing me to serve alongside that uncle. I again refused and pushed my way out.

 

It was tempting, that's why I stayed awhile to watch and let him finger me. But when he tried to mount me, I chickened out. When he rimmed me to wear down my resistance, I couldn't resist opening my legs for him. It's too creepy for comfort. I kept hearing weird noises and I wanted to be out of there as fast as I can. 

[Guest Guest]

17 minutes ago, Guest 5390 said:

To be honest, lesser gays are going to saunas now as compared to the period from 2000 to 2010. I wonder why?

Wat u find now in saunas r uncles n those rejected gays. Who will wan all these?

 

Moreover so many gay apps n online finder, everything is so convenient in ur hand now u do nid to go to a sauna to find guys. 

[Steve5380]

2 hours ago, Guest Btm Uncle said:

My dignity was even lower. I never thought about that sauna before. But it was across the road from the popular cruising place Pearl Centre.

 

One day, this uncle cruised me and wanted me to follow him across the road. I was curious where he's going until he went up that building. It was so run down and creepy with weird noises around. Anyway, we soon got down to sex in a room and he was riding me from behind. 

Then someone just pushed and the door simply opened. A few Indians watched us Chinese uncles having sex with their cocks hanging out waiting for their turn to ride me.

I felt weird and refused to carry on when they tried to barge in on us. 

I pushed them away but that uncle who's fucking me hardly resisted them. 

The 3 of them then turned to that uncle and gang banged him. OMG, I can see his ass hole being fucked until folded out in flesh red. He was enjoying it so much that his eyes were rolling white. The 3rd guy was fingering me, rimming me and preparing me to serve alongside that uncle. I again refused and pushed my way out.

 

It was tempting, that's why I stayed awhile to watch and let him finger me. But when he tried to mount me, I chickened out. When he rimmed me to wear down my resistance, I couldn't resist opening my legs for him. It's too creepy for comfort. I kept hearing weird noises and I wanted to be out of there as fast as I can. 

 

In all my staying at Queen Resort I never witnessed something like what you describe.  But then, I had little to do with Indian and Chinese uncles.  You were in a standard room? They were so small, I doubt that a crowd could fit in one of them.  A couple of times I explored their maze and saw people fucking, but not in gangs.  Run down and creepy with weird noises?  I have been in places much more weird than this one.  Twice in those days I entered Shogun and found it creepy.   However one thing that I always criticized were their old worn out towels.  They were not dirty, but full of holes.   I never had a conflict and nobody ever bothered me there.  Maybe our individual attitude also makes or breaks our experience at places. 

 

2 hours ago, Guest 5390 said:

 

Probably these hot guys have ‘settled down’ now with their partner and stop going to sauna or stop f*cking around. 

 

To be honest, lesser gays are going to saunas now as compared to the period from 2000 to 2010. I wonder why?

 

I wonder too.  The "lesser gays" are maybe those who are not that young.  And maybe young gays are less promiscuous today.  It seems to happen with girls too. 

.

Edited June 23, 2019 by Steve5380

[Guest Guest]

10 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

You are surely talking about Queen Resort, Queen Resident, former Heater Room, close to the Outram Park MRT station. 

 

I stayed there many times.  I got in friendly terms with Max Lim, the owner, who I had met at Raw.  I heard later that the owner Max had passe away  

 

 

 

I wonder whether this is the same Max that organised Sunday gay parties at clubs like Venom in the 90s?

 

Are there still such Sunday parties now 

[Guest Guest]

7 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

In all my staying at Queen Resort I never witnessed something like what you describe.  But then, I had little to do with Indian and Chinese uncles.  You were in a standard room? They were so small, I doubt that a crowd could fit in one of them.  A couple of times I explored their maze and saw people fucking, but not in gangs.  Run down and creepy with weird noises?  I have been in places much more weird than this one.  Twice in those days I entered Shogun and found it creepy.   However one thing that I always criticized were their old worn out towels.  They were not dirty, but full of holes.   I never had a conflict and nobody ever bothered me there.  Maybe our individual attitude also makes or breaks our experience at places. 

I wonder too.  The "lesser gays" are maybe those who are not that young.  And maybe young gays are less promiscuous today.  It seems to happen with girls too. 

.

 

First part: The one guy was talking about the Sauna and not the "hotel" type. which used to be frequented by MBs, because it seemed that their prices were cheaper than the Budget or hostels.

Less Promiscuous: Are you ironic? I don't see any change, aren't the younger guys less "inhibited" nowadays?