Of Love Struggles & Cries Of A Married Gay Man + Cheating Married Men Leading Dual Life (compiled)

[Guest Guest]

to be fair,

whether u r gay or str....when u r betrayed u will certainly turn from angel to monster.

u guys can blame the wife for being bad but if our bf betrayed us, u will be mean to him also.

[castaway]

I am getting older day by day and finding that, in feeling/emotional stories, nobody can teach anybody. You are not in the real specific other's circumstance to judge them wise or fool, noble or ignoble. Everybody is wise or fool sometimes, also noble or ignoble. There was one quote I liked long time before and so far still like it " Noble person is not person who is never ignoble, but is person knowing that they are still ignoble sometimes". Nobody can speak wisely all time because they dont know what life will bring to them tomorrow.

I am not in KR and his ex-wife's position to judge anything but in my opinion and experience, I would like to share my first gay friend's story.

PART 1 :

When I was just new into this gaylife, I used to really like married-men as other forummers here, I found them very manly ... my first gay friend is a married man also. He taught me how is gaylife supposed, how I should look at it, how to protect myself ... alot of things which an innocent boy (or big boy) needs to be learnt which never been taught in any school.

Here is his life story which he "told" me. My friend did not know that he was gay when he got married because at his time, his city, gay is not something very popular as nowsaday. After having 2 children, sometimes meeting guys in street, office ... he had some strong feelings to them, it got stronger by time ... then time comes, society changed ... he discovered that he likes men more than women, ... he started going to sauna ... in sauna, one day he met a guy who totally changed him, he fell in love deeply, then they became as couple and ... then one day he had to confess to his wife because his boy friend requested also. After confession, the wife was totally collapsed ... but then, what could she do when her husband confessed that he is gay ? ...

So she invited his boy friend home to know more ( I think she is very wise and open-minded)... as my friend told me, there was no problem with them (his wife and his boy friend) and actually they like each other, ... but then his boyfriend wanted to possess my friend totally, it meant his boy friend wanted him to divorce and moved to live together ... it meant that my friend had to loose everything (work, family, his children, social relationship, ...) but my friend could not do it ... he chose his family but he told me it was the very very difficult time in his life ... he almost wanted to commit suicide when his boy friend left ... but his wife helped him and always be his side... after long time, my friend recovered, he still stayed with his family, with his wife, they are seperate now but still living together because of their children, no sex, just like friends, his children still dont know about his ID until now ...

So in my opinion, we are not in position to judge KR's ex-wife. She was the one got cheated ... she lost her whole life for a "fake" husband (in this story, KR knew that he was gay before). What a middle-age woman can do now ? Do you think she can get married ? It is not easy as men to get married second wife ... I fell sorry for her ...

For KR, he should hope that one day, when his childrean get older or old enough, he can explain everything, then they will understand because life is more and more open nowsaday ... for gay things ...

" Being the only son, and under pressure from his parents to produce an "heir" to the family, + the fact that the GF liked him and pursued him, he decided to go along with the flow and dated her. And eventually got married" ... is very bullshit and un-acceptable excute to me.

When they decided to follow their parents's wish, they need to follow that direction/decision until end of their life ... if not, once anything discovered, they may be loose everything ... everybody will get hurted ...

Or if they are brave enough, they will at least feel peaceful in their mind ... or may be if they are lucky, happy endings can happen

P.S : So in order to make other "conservative" people change their mind, gay should not marry women to hide their ID and pls don't cruise in public toilet and do other "xxx" things in public which creat bad "image" of gays.

[snowball]

So in my opinion, we are not in position to judge KR's ex-wife. She was the one got cheated ... she lost her whole life for a "fake" husband (in this story, KR knew that he was gay before). What a middle-age woman can do now ? Do you think she can get married ? It is not easy as men to get married second wife ... I fell sorry for her ...

For KR, he should hope that one day, when his childrean get older or old enough, he can explain everything, then they will understand because life is more and more open nowsaday ... for gay things ...

castaway, you think too much, you still thought that most women now behave like 60s, 70s? you believe she will " solo " till end of the day?

People who believe in GOD & follow his teaching will curse people to go Hell? They already brainwash his son, read what Sticky&Sweet wrote.

I not against KR's wife & i won't side KR, but their son is innocent & naive, the church members & his mother doing are right or wrong we know within.

They are full of Love or Full of Bull Shit we know too.

Edited August 10, 2009 by snowball

[Boya]

well, i suggest he goes to saigon. almost every married man i met in the gay sauna tells me that almost all their married friends have kids and married, but also have boy lovers. 1, 3, 5 screw their wives, 2,4, 6 and sunday screw lover's backside. the world should start to wake up. nothing is better than a nice tight man hole. married straight men sooner or later will get enticed into screwing a man hole (or get screwed) at least once in his life time. :thumb:

[castaway]

castaway, you think too much, you still thought that most women now behave like 60s, 70s? if so she won't behave that way & allow her church members to do such evil thing which totally against teaching, you believe she will " solo " till end of the day? oh pls Holy people will curse people to go Hell? why don't they go themselves when their mouth & soul so dirty? i just afraid that they will brainwash his son totally, they are good at that, too many such cases happen, normally those extreme always like to spread Love is full of bull shit

I not against KR's wife & i won't side KR, but their son is innocent & naive, what the church members & his mother doing are totally nuts, if i am her son, i will hate them forever & feel big shame to be one of them

I dont know KR's wife so I dont know if she has "chance" to get married again. In my opinion, divorced women is not easy to do so ... less opportunity.

She let the church do such things may be because she was desperated, she is good Christian, she was angry ... alot of things we dont know ... and I dont know who are KR and his ex-wife also, if they are "good" person or not ... so I assume the best case ...

Holly people will curse people to hell but who cares ? do you ? ... I dont care even what they talked also ... as long as you dont believe such things, they talked or cursed just made them tired ... I still enjoy in sauna ...

Their son is innocent, I agree, he will be lost in his age (probaly) and his future is unsure ... but mistake was made from first step ... that's why gays should NOT marry and HAVE children. It is selfish to your children, isnt it ?

[rotikawin]

But you are gay! I will never forgive you and I want full custody of our son." The thing is, she had the backing of their church, and the church hired the best divorce lawyer on her behalf to gain full custody of the child.

1) a young boy brought up in the absence of a fatherly figure might have greater impact on his social/psychological well being than the superficial fact that the father's gay

"you're a bad person and you'll go to hell. Is that true papa?"

2) A responsible and good Christian parent should know and impart to the child that only God has the authority to judge and banish anyone to hell, the church aunties and uncles, not even the pastor has the authority.

My two cents...

[Eragon]

2. XX is my age. Which means late X0s.

Don't think u should disclose these. It is careless infos like these that will reveal your friend's identity.

[Eragon]

I fully agree with everything that Castaway had said. We do not know this lady and she was desperate, she was sad and she just got cheated - for God's sake, don't blame her. Please. If she is your sister, what is your stand?

Given a choice wont she wana sweep all dirts underneath the carpet and wish that no one will ever know of her dirty laundries? She has to turn to someone for help and being a religious person she turn to the church. Yes, it was a little harsh to label him a "criminal and a bad person and he will go to hell" - but, you know, we are not in this, we don't know the degree of sadness she's gone through to bring this across to her own kid to now learn to hate Daddy.

I am not a Christian. I m not siding anyone. But I get angry just reading all these comments about her being evil. Man... I will be a thousand times more evil than this if it's my brother-in-law who's cheated.

On the other hand, I think he was being very courageous to finally be truthful and acknowledge his sexual orientation - but, face it, being gay is tough. And being married w a kid and gay is even tougher. Learn to deal with it. Now.

Edited August 10, 2009 by Eragon

[snowball]

Well, I think enough said. Kids will always be the most innocent ones. Adults should know what they are doing.

I believe everything will have its reason behind, depend on how you look at it and handle it, have faith and

hope for the best. And be responsible.

Edited August 10, 2009 by snowball

[doncoin]

Then someone should tell KR's son too that he may go to hell for eating sambal prawns and wearing mixed blend clothes- i.e. polyester and cotton.

Also KR's ex-wife is going to be condemn because she cannot forgive him for being gay. I guess the church she goes to forgot about the teachings on forgiveness.

What upsets me a lot is with so many of the churches out there who take the bible out of context and use it to advance their own agendas.

Like you've said, KR's wife was the one who pursued him during uni days and I think what made her bitter more than anything else is that her expectations of this fairytale relationship is not turning out to be the happy ending she wanted. KR's sexuality is one thing that she cannot control. She got the guy, she got the CHIJMES wedding, she got the kid... Oh well, if she is self-aware enough, she would realise that she is using her son as a form of emotional blackmail on your friend. By poisoning their son's mind from young, and causing KR anguish, she will somewhat get satisfaction for the betrayal she had to endure. She will probably spend the rest of her life being angry and bitter towards him and not focus on her happiness but feed off his and her misery.

[Billy]

As they have always say : There is Nothing Like a Woman Scorned". When it comes to betrayal and revenge, you can't beat her; Not when she has the added authority of the CHURCH. My personal experience with the church is that they always have double standards. They will say love and forgiveness, well, up to you to believe.

One big loser in this case is the child. The mother and others will feed the child with negative thoughts about the father. You see, a boy needs a father as a role model, nobody can replace the father and mother in a child's life. By growing up hating the father, the child actually suffers lots of emotional pain, NOBODY CAN REPLACE THE FATHER. Not even the uncles or those men from the church. The emotional bond between a father and child is a progressive one, you need the bonding every step of the child's growth.

The stupid wife thinks she is doing the right thing by bringing up the child herself or with a new husband. A mother is a mother, a mother is NOT the father. A step-father is not the father. A new step-father may promise the mother all good things before marrying her, after that is another story, ha ha.

The church thinks that they are always right, well history has proven that they had done more harm than good and has hurt numerous people.

In other countries married men coming out to fling is something very common.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Billy

[Guest wow]

Wow! can you imagine the whole church knew about your friend being gay and cheated on his wife!

Not the kind of situation anyone wants to be in I bet!

[Mandrake]

Just to add my 2 cents since I have read lots of truth and sincere posts. =)

I agree with Eragon most. How would we react if KR's wife is our sister?

All of us are consumed by the anger we can identify.

But if you look deeper... we are actually all the same.

How would we re-act if our bf of years told us that he is straight all along... just fxxking our tight hole, using our skillful mouth until the right girl comes along. He has been fooling around with guys more then girls because guys are so readily available compared to girls. Now that his princess has appeared, he said, "Thank you for all the wonderful time, but it's time to move on." It's time for him to forget all the fun things and concentrate on making a family, his next stage in life. We asked if he can really give up on gay sex which he once saw such attractiveness. He answered that; When he is done with experiencing family life, he might come back to gay life... "who knows?" said he.

Perhaps the above scenario is of such a remote possibility in our mind that we will never see it coming...

Perhaps KR's wife never saw it coming too...

No matter what... we can't deny the victims here.

KR is not the main victim in this relationship... he made an intentional choice to promote a lie.

His lie gave birth to a suffering ex-wife and a suffering son.

Although the wife's means of revenge is not good for herself and her son... we still can't say she is a hateful person. A great hurt can change especially an innocent person... as one such as these are the least prepared.

The discerning public should try to understand her and help her in healing by offering her comforting words, rather then telling her that she is to be blamed also, or that she knows nothing about love or forgiveness or even lend her power for revenge like the church.

We can console KR too by telling him that he is a victim of society's pressure. However, he is still the main culprit of this tragedy for having no courage to stand for himself and pulling others to suffer with him. Hopefully, he will learn to have courage to face the future. Hopefully, his ex-wife may forgive him and move on to a better life and hopefully, his son when come to age may understand that they are all victims. Healing must start and it only start when you come to terms with the truth.

It is not easy. We can forgive... but the hurt remains.

The hurt after being healed... remains the scar.

The true hurt in the heart can never really be healed.

If you never loved, you can never be hurt.

For those who feel the hurt because they hurt others...

They still can't fathom what really being hurt means...

unless... they hurt the ones, they truly love.

And for those who only love themselves... it takes a miracle or a tragedy to show them.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Mandrake

[harylok]

我们暂时先敞开”道德”不谈, 也不批判 谁“对”谁“错”.

我认为应该先从 (BI-已婚者)的一些心态和处境着手, 然后才依 个别情况来探讨:

大致上, 我把(BI-已婚者)分类成以下几种:

第一种(BI): “结婚”之前,不晓得自己有喜欢男人的倾向,之后在某种情况底下,才逐渐觉察到自已是同性恋者. 在好奇心的驱使下, 随之而来的是一夜情的浅尝即止, 或过度的放纵, 或追求有个长相思守的同性伴侣的复杂心理变化.

第二种(BI): 由于社会或家庭的压力 (i.e. 独身子廷续香火的观念 (e.g Mr.KR), 父母抱孙心切的期待, 朋友与同事的揶喻 , 或 抛开不了因其他周遭环境造成的面子问题 etc.), 无奈而亦然 ”结婚”去. 很明显的, 一个与妻子同床异梦的无助且悲哀的同性恋者.在长久的压抑之下, 他也可能开始响往同性之间的恋情.

第三种(BI): 因为本身喜欢小孩, 因此”借腹”生子, 也”结婚”去了. 但仍然活动于圈内, 一夜情当然不在话下. 妻子可能仅是一个生育的工具. (e.g Mr.KR)

第四种(BI): 很明确自己具有双性的倾向, 渴望有正常男人的家庭生活而”结婚”, 欲摆脱不了断臂之癖.

第五种(BI): 尝试以”结婚”来改变自已同性恋的心理, 但往往于事无补,甚至付出惨痛的代价. 在很多PLU的角度去看, 是愚昧的. 此种BI可能会有自杀的念头.

第六种(BI): 在老一辈的华人传统观念里, 尤其以早期已婚的女人而言, “口交”这种行为, 既变态又污秽. 根本在行房时, 此举是免淡的.

老婆收精后, 没有了太大的性起 (或因老婆年迈而身子欠佳), 再加上本身经济能力有限的情况下, 年长的叔佰可能就会在无意中或通过一些管道而接触到同性.

Hary

... 自古以来, 对PLU而言, 同性相”吸(Suck)”, 是一个不变的自然规律.

[Guest open]

I urged all who read this and making your comments to be a little more open-minded and think of other possibilities before passing judgements...

1. Those who say KR is wrong because he should not have married when he knew he was Gay. Well, maybe he was confused then. Maybe he wanted to try to get married and see if he could live a straight life. He made an attempt. He might never have known if it would work out...but at least he wanted to try.

2. Those who condemn the church - Not all churches are like that. Not all Christians are like that. For all you know, KR was dramatizing the whole thing. Maybe its just the wife who cannot forgive him and she got some of my friends (who happen to be church friends) and family on her side. Don't jump the the conclusion that the Church will not accept a gay person just because he is gay.

We can stray. Man with man, man with woman, woman with woman. To me, it doesn't really make that great a difference if KR slept with other men or women. He strayed. I dun understand fully why the wife is "more angry" just because it is a man, though....atleast she can be sure he didn't stray because she was getting old or losing her looks....

[Guest pathetic sympathetic]

Talking about straying, everyone does stray including the most faitful wife even strays emotionally occasionally. There's totally no exception cos' we are human beings with feelings & emotions.

What matters here is being open-minded, to have a big heart & be able to forgive (for all the related & affected parties).

What got me a bit fired up was the fact that KR was being extremely condemned when he was trying his best being a husband, a son as well as a father. His strength & courage were certainly a praise in today's many easy casual free gay lifestyle. Actually, KR's case is not unusual in today's society, in fact many are still leading a double life (spotted many daddies & uncles & fatherly figures even in Keybox sauna).

What made me sympathise with these self-denying people is that the fact that they are actually in agony & there were no outlets for them to open up, even in their own circle of people close to them (to the extent that even the public places like saunas have their entrances covered up to conceal the identity of walk-in patrons).

Many people have different learning curves, including KR. We receive varying degrees of guidance trodding in this difficult jungle, especially being a young (and even teenager)gay man.

Even for myself, I had a difficult time during my younger times. But now in these modern times, esp. with this forum here in s'pore, we as gay people at least could share & learn from each other & unite facing this challenging society.

We should acknowledge KR's effort on one side. But on the other hand, we should also not condemned his lack of early self-realisation & self-identification in the early stages of his life. Even for myself, I had 4 gfs & only now that i'm 29 I decided to be fully gay. Before that, I was slightly confused & uncertain. You think all of my past gfs should cursed me to death now?

[Guest Sickly Malay]

Here is my story

In my mid 40s, came from a strong Muslim family, youngest son of 9 siblings, very close to all of them and my other 16 nieces and nephews. Never miss any family outings always contribute to family funds and help the other siblings who are not well to do financially, having a good job, good circle of gay friends and did well socially also, my other siblings kind of know about me being gay but they have no say about my life

Few months back felt ill and found unconscious at home, diagnose as mild stroke. They came to my rescue, was warded for more then a month, they came to my flat and check on how could I be sick when I am living healthy, exercise regularly, amongst other things that was found was gay dvds, condoms, lubes, intimate photos with gay friends and other common gay things in a gay man’s home. So they made the diagnose that the sickness we because of gods punishment because of my gay activities.

As I could not take care of myself due to the mild stroke, I was brought to one of my siblings home to recuperate, there the whole world came tumbling down with the sickness, all of the other siblings condemn of me being gay, for fxxking another man’s arse instead of you know what…….now I am sick and cant take care of myself……WHAT A LOAD OF BULL!!

They suggested lots of things, and kept telling me to turn straight and get married, turn to god for help and brought me to a medium or like a priest so that I will leave my gay lifestyle. Its of no fault of anyone, I didn’t betray anyone. Not like KR’s story, I don’t have a wife or children, yet, now its me against the other 8 of them, plus their other half. They even want me to rent out my flat so I will not be able to be on my own and live the way I am last time. All my previous activities, my liking, my friends, my holidays are link to gayness and they are against it, they said they couldn’t say it out last time, as I kept it in a dark but now that I am sick my so call sin have been expose for me to change.

Other then my small circle of gay friends I have no one to turn to, have been keeping silent and quiet, and refuse to get help form family members or whatever they suggested, go on my own way and thinking but find it very difficult to cope, as just like before I love all of them, they are family after all but then it take lots of effort understanding to make me a healthier person and also a happy one.

How I wish there is a rich gay Arab prince from to take me away to Saudi Arabia, or Egypt or Dubai, so all my siblings will think that I am well taken care off as in a muslim country and turn straight.

[Guest lo]

Here is my story

In my mid 40s, came from a strong Muslim family, youngest son of 9 siblings, very close to all of them and my other 16 nieces and nephews. Never miss any family outings always ....

It's always at the back of my mind... what happens if I fall sick while I am still single and alone? "sickly Malay", I can empathise with you for I have fallen very ill before. Difference was.. except for 1 younger brother who stumbled on my collection of goodies (but he never made any comment or reference to it ever), the other siblings either did not know or choose to overlook it, parents do not know, or just did not wish to make anything out of it. None of them confronted me. I have all their concern and love, and I was fortunate to have my bf who attended to me altho we did not live together, but near enough. My parents were just glad that I had a 'good friend' who took care of me.

Trust me, your siblings love you very much, and are reacting the only way they know. Their scathing views of your lifestyle is all stemmed from ignorance of what you are; their anger is from not knowing how to make you well again; and the feeling of despair in trying to pinpoint how or why you had to have a stroke. It's a choice now to educate them about your lifestyle, or to let sleeping dogs lie. It's also not easy to care for a stroke victim; I was caring for my dad recently, and I was not exactly patient with him initially until I came to terms on how he now needs others to help him with everything, and as I empathised with his frustrations, I realised I really do love him very very much altho we never communicated much before.

I remember a comment from an ex-colleague who is a cancer survivor. She told me that the person who suffers the most is actually the spouse or the closest person who wants you to be well, but is helpless as to how to do it and can't bear to watch you suffer.

I have recovered from my own illness some years back, and my recent encounter with my dad's stroke, does make me think and think.. the reactions of your loved ones and the ones who love you, no matter how unkind or insensitive it may seem, is the only way he or she could express his/her love and concern for you, and perhaps a way to vent their anger at what is causing you your suffering.

I guess I have digressed from the thread.. and to me, you are cool when you said you still love your family despite their views of your lifestyle.

[Guest Shiok]

Can anyone please translate??? Thanks

[castaway]

1. Those who say KR is wrong because he should not have married when he knew he was Gay. Well, maybe he was confused then. Maybe he wanted to try to get married and see if he could live a straight life. He made an attempt. He might never have known if it would work out...but at least he wanted to try.

If he is confused then dont get married yet.

You can NOT "TRY" other people life and happiness just because you are confused and want to discover if you can live a straight life ...

Life is very fair ... you can't have everything you want ...

[Guest Bedokbi]

第四种(BI): 很明确自己具有双性的倾向, 渴望有正常男人的家庭生活而”结婚”, 欲摆脱不了断臂之癖.

Hary

... 自古以来, 对PLU而言, 同性相”吸(Suck)”, 是一个不变的自然规律.

Haiz. I belong to this type. Also worried that my gf will find out. I really love her a lot but just can't bear the urge to play with guys sometime. It had been 2 months since I done that. I still feel guilty about it. It was safe sex wit a guy I had known before getting together with her.

[Eragon]

We should acknowledge KR's effort on one side. But on the other hand, we should also not condemned his lack of early self-realisation & self-identification in the early stages of his life. Even for myself, I had 4 gfs & only now that i'm 29 I decided to be fully gay. Before that, I was slightly confused & uncertain. You think all of my past gfs should cursed me to death now?

You are missing a very important point here - he has a kid. He choose to overlook that part. Now, how responsible is that? Hurray to his coming out and embracing gaydom, it must be liberating... But, just don't expect everyone to toast a red wine to celebrate. I am sure his son won't be looking up to this father figure when he grow up.

As for your case, did you got your girls pregnant? If you hadn't then why do you question if they will curse you to death at all? Many girls are strong and open-minded these days I am sure they will be happy for you and wish you to be gay (/happy) with your life. Unless of cos you had been a cock head and left them with a "burden" to take care of and still expect them to forgive you? C'mon you can't be that dumb and insensitive! :smokin:

[Guest Karma]

You are missing a very important point here - he has a kid. He choose to overlook that part. Now, how responsible is that? Hurray to his coming out and embracing gaydom, it must be liberating... But, just don't expect everyone to toast a red wine to celebrate. I am sure his son won't be looking up to this father figure when he grow up.

As for your case, did you got your girls pregnant? If you hadn't then why do you question if they will curse you to death at all? Many girls are strong and open-minded these days I am sure they will be happy for you and wish you to be gay (/happy) with your life. Unless of cos you had been a cock head and left them with a "burden" to take care of and still expect them to forgive you? C'mon you can't be that dumb and insensitive! :smokin:

I totally agree.... u can come out and be liberated ... BUT your life is your life NEVER drag another person to misery... there is KARMA ... as for

him .. he deserves what he's done without thot to others he is hurting.

[Guest Man Hood]

Dear Snowball,

I believe you are still young and is very lucky all this while in your undertakings. When someone is being cheated for so many years and especially the wife has put all her effort in the family, after several years then she discovered the husband has been cheating her! How is she going to face the people when Singapore is such an unforgiving society? We cannot use our simple thinking to judge how much grievances she has, so we should give her a break. Of course for the church members, I would say they are immature, same like any aunties and uncles of other religous group.

I symphatise with the wife and I won't give a thumps up for the husband. In the first place he should not cheat her, this is the most basic fundamentals in a relationship. Now he get his punishment, which I would say he has to face it. Yes, I pity him but what can we say? Nobody can decide for him what kind of life he wants, he has chosen it that way, be it, face the consequences.

I too was being woo by many pretty girls since young, and even now. But I know I cannot cheat anyone. I don't want to victimise these poor girls, so I rejected them. I love kids, I love to have my own children but I know I cannot cheat.

that's why i am sick to those who always act like they are understanding, spreading love to others. when thing really happen to them, their mouth, heart & soul don't even can be clean but evil, what the point act like saint & angel? hoping others going to hell? so what type of person they are, what a joke? hypocrite, fake people all around, forgive & love your enemy?

kiss my foot, stop spreading lies & teaching rubbish if yourself can't show in action, shut up & will save for the day.

kid are innocent.

[happy.99]

marriage is trust between 2 person.

[cock brand]

一失足成千古恨

One mistake by this man KR, everyone around him suffers and all become very unhappy.

KR, his former wife, his child, his parents, his in-laws are all victims of KR's one mistake.

So friends, please do not commit the same mistake.

不要一念之差而铸成大错！

[Guest Please Forgive Me]

Let's start anew.

The extent to which KR's past still lives on in almost every conversation will not help any good. It is often easy for us to form a judgement. Talking about perfection/ideal is easy, anyone of us here can do it. Likewise, admiring high ideals is something we hear about from everybody. But it will never be easy when we are to make life choices. Life experiences is a collection of escapes.

The psychological and social damages that KR, wife, son and people around each one of them [and, I also believe for threadstarter Sticky&Sweet] are experiencing can only be felt from within them. We can only speak about personal appearance and decorum and stress the importance of keeping a dignified and purity of the heart.

Perhaps, we should change our focus. Instead of dwelling into morality, let's learn to live by offering our prayers to them. Despite everything, they still have their lives ahead of them. They have to learn to live again. For each one of them to [re]live their life filled with love. For their future to be filled with wisdom of calm consideration. To forget and to forgive. For a renewed transformation towards acceptance of each other.

[Rotaredom]

Manage to dig out something from previous thread. Talk to a gay friendly church and this will be the reply. Start from the 7min....sinner or saint?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fREkQ2uhR4E&feature=related

[Guest Man Hood]

Dear Castaway,

I totally agree to your pointo of view. Yes, we should not judge people since we are not them. We should not use our mind to think what and how others would behave.

The story about your friend is touching and amazing. The wife is someone that I would salute to her, for her gracefullness and forgiveness.

Regards,

P.S : So in order to make other "conservative" people change their mind, gay should not marry women to hide their ID and pls don't cruise in public toilet and do other "xxx" things in public which creat bad "image" of gays.

[newguy2l]

can i give a new spin on this topic?

i put myself on KR's side

As Asians the primary importance is Family

not love not country

so what KR did is totally in accordance with this Value

this concept of marrying for love is only a new recent western concept

for centuries we Asians have been marrying for the good of the family

so what is so wrong with what KR did?

he provided the family with a son and heir

he provided the wife with material things

he did enough

enough that if he wanted to enjoy himself with a few extra-marital flings

he is well justified to do so

it is the wife with her unreal expectations of love who caused this disaster

u marry for richer or for poorer

so learn to make lemons from lemonade

if all wives behave so selfishely like her S'pore would have 90% divorce rates

becos i think 90% of all married men play around - either guys or gals

she should have tried counselling or waht-not in efforts to get her husband's attentions back

not running to her church and washing dirty linen in public

and if she had thought of the future mental health of her son

she should have kept things status quo

better to have a father who is gay but secretly so

than one who is despiced in public

the wife did not behave like a true wife who would put her family before self

[Guest pathetic sympathetic]

I think u still don't get it that they are more often than not, very grey & dormant areas regarding a person's sexuality as well as his/her open/public status.

And This changes accordingly through times & public expectations, as to the factual extent that more & more people are coming out of their closets much more comfortably & confidently these days over modern times.

Are u saying that there should not even be a slight tolerance for those closeted & supposedly normal people who would like to change their minds later part in their lives?

And btw, KR's case was totally not his intention to voluntarily let his sexuality be out, unlike me (he still desire to preserve things the way they were). It was his wife who curiously scanned his e-mails.

You are missing a very important point here - he has a kid. He choose to overlook that part. Now, how responsible is that? Hurray to his coming out and embracing gaydom, it must be liberating... But, just don't expect everyone to toast a red wine to celebrate. I am sure his son won't be looking up to this father figure when he grow up.

As for your case, did you got your girls pregnant? If you hadn't then why do you question if they will curse you to death at all? Many girls are strong and open-minded these days I am sure they will be happy for you and wish you to be gay (/happy) with your life. Unless of cos you had been a cock head and left them with a "burden" to take care of and still expect them to forgive you? C'mon you can't be that dumb and insensitive! :smokin:

[angmoh69]

job!

Edited February 24, 2014 by angmoh69

[cock brand]

Still married, still no sex, still fighting, and still keeping a big chunk of life in the dark. Probably going to stay that way too. But I do long for the simplicity of the prefects study or the changing room and a quick schoolboy blowjob!

So whats your point?

Regret to be married?

Felt lucky that wife didn't kick up big fuss with you for 10 fxxkless years?

No friends and relative yet to label you sinner or something?

No one told your child yet that you are queer?

That you can still go on and have fun with guys without any reservations?

So, whats your point?

[angmoh69]

To CB. No regrets about being married. Sexless years are down to wife's choice, not mine, & it's nothing to do with bi tendencies. I would happily have sex, she lost interest as soon as kid was born. Strange concept that I feel less unfaithful going to Shogun than having the traditional local girlfriend on the side. Sorry to upset you, there was no deep point to the post; maybe just wanted to get it off my chest.

[Mandrake]

can i give a new spin on this topic?

i put myself on KR's side

As Asians the primary importance is Family

not love not country

so what KR did is totally in accordance with this Value

this concept of marrying for love is only a new recent western concept

for centuries we Asians have been marrying for the good of the family

so what is so wrong with what KR did?

he provided the family with a son and heir

he provided the wife with material things

he did enough

enough that if he wanted to enjoy himself with a few extra-marital flings

he is well justified to do so

it is the wife with her unreal expectations of love who caused this disaster

u marry for richer or for poorer

so learn to make lemons from lemonade

if all wives behave so selfishely like her S'pore would have 90% divorce rates

becos i think 90% of all married men play around - either guys or gals

she should have tried counselling or waht-not in efforts to get her husband's attentions back

not running to her church and washing dirty linen in public

and if she had thought of the future mental health of her son

she should have kept things status quo

better to have a father who is gay but secretly so

than one who is despiced in public

the wife did not behave like a true wife who would put her family before self

Seriously... you really believe what you wrote above is the wise way to treat ourselves and others.

That the world is only perceived family values and family heirloom. The rest are all subsidiaries... not even love, country, ourselves... others, truth, rights, happiness... the list can go on.

A world of duty and falsehood... compared to a world of willingness and truth.

Yet that world you promote that cared only for it's own family values and even warrant justice to sacrificing ourselves and others... cared extensively for what others think of them. Like you mentioned, the consequence of being despised by the public.

Ironies upon ironies, falsehood upon falsehood... that plague of ignorance that held to us strongly in the past (East or west, it all happened before. Remember what happened in Titanic?)... and you are still in in favor of it?

Yes, the west might have progressed much faster then us. But we are catching up.

Are you that slow or in fear of loosing identity?

Or trying to justify what you are already in and couldn't find strength to escape...

hoping others will stay at your level to accompany you.

The strength to be free lies within accepting the truth.

Who you really are and what you really want is undeniable.

A lie promotes more lies... weakness begets more weaknesses. If the family unit is formed without love and happiness, in worst scenario.... formed hoping to take advantage of each other. Can you calculate how much self-destruction you can endure... and how much love and happiness it will try to take from the world in order to balance. For those dense and stubborn cases... it only takes from the world till it ceased functioning and never balanced. So, it is lucky for the world that you can only take so much self-destruction and your death will come sooner then later. Stress is the root to all illness.

The you I wrote might not only meant you specifically, newguy21.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Mandrake

[cock brand]

To Newguy21, your thinking is so 18th century!

This year is 2009, but you are still having that old chinese feudual thinking which had already been abolished long ago.

And you are a true blue male chauvinist!

KR may want to be that filial son to fulfil his parents wishes of having children.

Yes, good!. But then be that filial son and stay that way and don't fool around, and worse with other men!

He just wanted to have the best of both worlds but unfortunately its not possible in today's world.

KR's wife is as qualified as him as both are came from the same varsity, so theres not dependency from her.

The wife's family was not mentioned; perhaps the only people that she could turned to was the church.

Though the outcome was rather undesirable with too many outsiders like the church members involved.

But just like this this forum here; look at the responds and see how varied they are and you can imagine how the church people responded.

[castaway]

Actually I am happy that S&S brought this topic up, it is not only about the KR's case anymore ... it is the very common case for gays for very long time and we should discuss how everybody faces this situation.

@ newguy21 : do you think that all gays here dont want to follow their parents wish ? Do you think that we dont like to have our own children ? or to have our next called, generation ?

I do want and I believe many guys here do same ... BUT I (we) know that if I/we get married and have children, I/we will not feel happy completely, I/we always have to live 2 faced-life and above, if something is discovered or until you feel tired or exhausted ... everything you and your family build for such long years or whole life will collapse and nobody is happy anymore in the end ... it is called SELFISH , not only to you but other people ...

You can't make everybody happy BUT stealing/cheating people's happiness is a SIN ... you will have to "pay" for it .

"for centuries we Asians have been marrying for the good of the family , so what is so wrong with what KR did?" ... this is so funny to me, are you living in Century as your nickname ? Nowsaday, do you think still have people getting married with those people whom your parents arrange ??? It can be but may be in some countries, some people living in countryside or rural area ... BUT not in modern life ... and just want to correct, in some centuries ago, it also happened in Europe, America, Australia and even Africa ... dont ever think only in Asia ...

"You" here is not you, newguy21, so dont feel offende.

@ angmoh69 : just want to ask you, do you think you are gay ?

If you are not, If you just find having sex with guys is something fun for you while your wife cant do it with you, I suppose you should not write your story here, because it is totally non-sense. Surely, there are many couples NOT having sex after the wife gave birth.

But if you are gay, do you think your decision or your life is something should be proud of ?

I know I am not in the position to judge anybody here BUT I just think that we should not encourage gays get married women.

Gays getting married or gay not getting married walk in 2 different roads, 2 different directions. Once you choose, you have to follow it, ... nobody knows what is the end of road, gay road may not be better, may not be happy ending, ... but at least we can proud of something deely inside our heart that we did not cheat anybody life, did not steal anybody's happiness ...

Vote for me, Vote for gays ... :yuk:

Edited August 15, 2009 by castaway

[Sticky&Sweet]

That day, after listening to KR, as I was in the cab on the way home, I thought about him, his ex-wife, and many things in between. I also wondered if there are other married gay men in his situation too - divorced and being criticized by both straight and gay men. The lesson that I've learnt from my friend KR's episode is this - Be sure of what you want in this life and once you've made that decision, have the balls to stick to it. As I said - he suspected back then that he is gay. I mean, looking back, I also suspected he was, but I wasn't sure of course. On hindsight now, everything seemed so obvious. But anyway, yeah, the point is - he should've grown a backbone and be a (gay) man about it in the first place and not cave into family pressure etc.

I never did. My mom asked me before if I could change and I said - I'd rather not. I don't want to go around Fort Rd cruising for guys in a car with a baby seat at the back!. I told her those exact words. My mom slowly got around to accepting me anyways. Now she's OK with me being gay.

[Eragon]

I think u still don't get it that they are more often than not, very grey & dormant areas regarding a person's sexuality as well as his/her open/public status.

And This changes accordingly through times & public expectations, as to the factual extent that more & more people are coming out of their closets much more comfortably & confidently these days over modern times.

Are u saying that there should not even be a slight tolerance for those closeted & supposedly normal people who would like to change their minds later part in their lives?

And btw, KR's case was totally not his intention to voluntarily let his sexuality be out, unlike me (he still desire to preserve things the way they were). It was his wife who curiously scanned his e-mails.

U are constantly beating back the same bush.

What's there to understand about greys? He's confused. That's about it. Is being confused good enough an excuse to stray after becoming a father. Why hasn't you address my point then? The child.

Changes according to time and bah bah bah will take away all responsibilities?

I have nothing against the closet cases - but why did u bring this up? it's a separate point. Irrelevant. That guy isn't closet now.

Of cos........ normal people can change their mind. Don't we all changes our mind everyday? I had wanted to wear my army singlet to gym tomorrow but when tomorrow comes I decided to go with my Guards singlet. But is he, to you, any other normal people? If to you having a kid and acting like one is consider normal - i m concern about your perception of life as a whole.

You arent that guy - how do you know what his intentions are? And lagi best, you can even read into the nitty gritty like "he still desire to preserve things the way they were".

Anyway to me this is just a discussing topic in a online-forum, dunt have to be too serious abt it.

Dunt take offence. I m just helping you out here w yr stupidity :smokin:

[Guest tkong]

Hi,

sad love story, i walk over the road since my son in young age about 4yrs ago.

now im sigle father wh a son, is hard tm for me work and taken care a son, need family member gd support, tks to my sis and baby sister taken care for him until after p6. he bk to my shoulder taken care him, today i happy im gay father...

[Guest guest]

Indeed, must admit I felt that I've finally found the true smartest ass hloe who at the end of every unconstructive comments often call others names like stupid & dumb. Why should I take offence & even bother with such a diseased unfcukable asshloe? In this forum, such an asshloe has every right to exhibit others that it is truly the most intelligent asshloe in the world. Hope you don't be too serious & dunt take offence too as & when that kind of smart hloe arises from time to time.

U are constantly beating back the same bush.

What's there to understand about greys? He's confused. That's about it. Is being confused good enough an excuse to stray after becoming a father. Why hasn't you address my point then? The child.

Changes according to time and bah bah bah will take away all responsibilities?

I have nothing against the closet cases - but why did u bring this up? it's a separate point. Irrelevant. That guy isn't closet now.

Of cos........ normal people can change their mind. Don't we all changes our mind everyday? I had wanted to wear my army singlet to gym tomorrow but when tomorrow comes I decided to go with my Guards singlet. But is he, to you, any other normal people? If to you having a kid and acting like one is consider normal - i m concern about your perception of life as a whole.

You arent that guy - how do you know what his intentions are? And lagi best, you can even read into the nitty gritty like "he still desire to preserve things the way they were".

Anyway to me this is just a discussing topic in a online-forum, dunt have to be too serious abt it.

Dunt take offence. I m just helping you out here w yr stupidity :smokin:

[castaway]

Hi,

sad love story, i walk over the road since my son in young age about 4yrs ago.

now im sigle father wh a son, is hard tm for me work and taken care a son, need family member gd support, tks to my sis and baby sister taken care for him until after p6. he bk to my shoulder taken care him, today i happy im gay father...

Did you call this is LOVE ??? oh my god ... even SAD love story :yuk: sounds like Korean movie ...

Are you still happy when you drag so many people in to solve/fix your life ? Do you think your son is happy boy ?

And finally, do you think that you are a responsible man ? :whistle:

Edited August 14, 2009 by castaway

[recklessbootlegger]

In response to Sticky&Sweet's recount about KR.

I do feel very sorry for KR. It is not easy to be true to yourself when you have to abide by the expectations of the Asian family, not that Westerners have little expectations. Circumstances are different. How many of us have not been pressured or annoyed by the all too frequent questions from relatives about marriage? To the point that most of my gay friends run away to BKK or other holiday spots over CNY! In our workplaces, how many can come out without the fear of being rejected? Singapore society has a long way more to go in terms of accepting alternative lifestlyes, and not looking at every gay man and lesbian as a potential child molester. Just appreciate the talents that our gay brothers and sisters have to contribute to the nation - NDP done by gay men... more entertaining. If not dry like hell...

Honestly when i read the recount, I felt very very sad for KR, his son and much pity for his wife.

I can only hope that KR can learn to move on and find a relationship that he will be happy in.

For his son, I can wish that he will learn to love his father for all that he is.

As for KR's ex-wife, it can be devastating discovering that her husband is gay, nonetheless, gays are humans and are capable of love and are entitled to life and a place on this earth. I hope she will see this and not develop an aversion to gay men.. they are after all a woman's best friend, after diamonds!

There is very little I can say about the Christian church and its stand on anything that is not deemed "wholesome". Just using Christ's very words "Judge not and ye shall not be judged, condemn not and ye shall not be condemned".

Edited August 14, 2009 by recklessbootlegger

[Guest jayy]

I find it hard to sympathize with KR. I mean, getting married and 'playing along' just to produce an heir and appease family? Clearly, he's paying the price for living a lie.

Personally, I couldn't care less what my relations think of my marital status. My obligation is to provide for my parents as they have done for me, and this does not include 'producing an heir'. Neither my parents nor my extended family ought to have a say in who or whether I get married and whether I have children for that matter.

[Guest tkong]

i left my wife after i confirm i'm gay. since my son is 3yrs old.

today he is 24yrs start working. i happy with my lover for 13 yrs and pass away in 2003.is my hard tm he pass away in a short and my ma also pass away after a month. i stop on work for 9 mths,after working in oversea 2.5 yrs bk to sg, met my new lover.life is short, be happy everyday is good day...

[recklessbootlegger]

I find it hard to sympathize with KR. I mean, getting married and 'playing along' just to produce an heir and appease family? Clearly, he's paying the price for living a lie.

Personally, I couldn't care less what my relations think of my marital status. My obligation is to provide for my parents as they have done for me, and this does not include 'producing an heir'. Neither my parents nor my extended family ought to have a say in who or whether I get married and whether I have children for that matter.

Society is made of different sorts. Good that you can think very clearly and hence you have an idea of what you want for yourself. However, depending on individual circumstances, things and perceptions are very different.

There are times when others share their "sad" or "unfortunate" recounts, we need to take a step back and not measure these according to our standards but rather, show some objectivity and thank the person for sharing and offer some understanding instead of chatisement, churches and govts do that and we have had enough of it. Can we not as people in the same boat, learn to understand?

In AngMoh's case, what can we learn from that? Apart from the superficial take-away that in single sex boriding schools such things happen, we also learn that a person's environment during the impressionable years formulates his mindset and influences his choices. Do we condemn? No. We understand.

Well and good that in this era we are given much more freedom to come out and be who we want, the extend to whcih acceptance is given is questionable though, but we also need to consider a time for the less fortunate who were not granted that liscence. This pented up emotions can result in some very anti-social gay behaviour at gyms and saunas. Again, let's exercise some understanding.

Let us be more objective and allow for the sharing by not being too confrontational and offensive in our replies.

Edited August 15, 2009 by recklessbootlegger

[Guest Please Forgive Me]

Society is made of different sorts. Good that you can think very clearly and hence you have an idea of what you want for yourself. However, depending on individual circumstances, things and perceptions are very different.

There are times when others share their "sad" or "unfortunate" recounts, we need to take a step back and not measure these according to our standards but rather, show some objectivity and thank the person for sharing and offer some understanding instead of chatisement, churches and govts do that and we have had enough of it. Can we not as people in the same boat, learn to understand?

In AngMoh's case, what can we learn from that? Apart from the superficial take-away that in single sex boriding schools such things happen, we also learn that a person's environment during the impressionable years formulates his mindset and influences his choices. Do we condemn? No. We understand.

Well and good that in this era we are given much more freedom to come out and be who we want, the extend to whcih acceptance is given is questionable though, but we also need to consider a time for the less fortunate who were not granted that liscence. This pented up emotions can result in some very anti-social gay behaviour at gyms and saunas. Again, let's exercise some understanding.

Let us be more objective and allow for the sharing by not being too confrontational and offensive in our replies.

I just have to quote the whole content. It is a piece of thought that speaks volume. It is a voice to remind us to reflect and to open our minds.

While it is good to discuss the issue so that we can learn, we must also exercise our feelings as not to condemn/criminalise an individual for his [unethical?] life choice. Particularly so, when the act was questionably done in the past.

[Eragon]

Indeed, must admit I felt that I've finally found the true smartest ass hloe who at the end of every unconstructive comments often call others names like stupid & dumb. Why should I take offence & even bother with such a diseased unfcukable asshloe? In this forum, such an asshloe has every right to exhibit others that it is truly the most intelligent asshloe in the world. Hope you don't be too serious & dunt take offence too as & when that kind of smart hloe arises from time to time.

Cant even express yrself properly... sad

[Guest Guest]

Cant even express yrself properly... sad

Even since my wife avoid to have sex with me after gave birth, I got hooked up with M&M sex. sincerely speaking I am not a gay, There were at several occasions I acted responsibly to avoid fostering LTR with gay guy who expressed their desire to me and I wish I could do so.

The world is not just back and white, grey is always being oversighted.

My mature uncles are in the same delima.

[hancurios]

Hey all there no one to blame here the most important is to make ur fren back to life he should not look haggard he might lose his son and maybe the ex wife love or whatsoever but now he got the freedom so use the freedom wisely..