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Discussion About Single & Hdb Flat Ownership + Hdb Loan (Compiled)


worldangel

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I chosen Punggol for this Jan BTO and its my first time registering

Gd luck for ur first time application for the bto. Seems like punggol bto is more popular, total applications received 3867!

对自己好是一种幸福,

对别人好是一种积福。

 

Spend time counting your blessings,

not airing your complaints.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Good luck to all applicants here...may the force be with you :thumb:

need some views here... recently saw a two room flat 43sqm, one bedroom, one living room, small kitchen and toilet....in tpy about fifteen min from mrt, high floor with good unblocked views, near lift lobby...'265K, cov minimum 15K...was told by my agent that total may go up to 300-320K. Block upgraded not long ago... flat in good condition, hardly need much renovation. But fact remains it's two room, so future resale value may not be too good and cannot rent out one room. Given this, would U still taken it? I must say I feel good about what I saw.... just that I thought it was quite steep price for a two room flat.... any can advise?

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need some views here... recently saw a two room flat 43sqm, one bedroom, one living room, small kitchen and toilet....in tpy about fifteen min from mrt, high floor with good unblocked views, near lift lobby...'265K, cov minimum 15K...was told by my agent that total may go up to 300-320K. Block upgraded not long ago... flat in good condition, hardly need much renovation. But fact remains it's two room, so future resale value may not be too good and cannot rent out one room. Given this, would U still taken it? I must say I feel good about what I saw.... just that I thought it was quite steep price for a two room flat.... any can advise?

1.Don't take it; way too expensive given the fact that HDB will be doing a bumper launch this year at a more affordable price tag with minimal cash outlay.

2. Toa Payoh flats rather old, I assumed left with 60+ years only. If you do a resale after your MOP and with less than 60 years lease, you don't get much value. The old layout is restrictive in terms of design.

3. 15 minutes to MRT is a sweaty walk. You will regret over long term.

4. May go up to $320K; agent causing panicky buy, old tactics.

5. Unblocked view for now; but for how long? Any unused land in front may get a new building in time to block your view.

6. Flats may appear in good condition because most of the defects are hidden by a coat of paint.

 

Think twice, think thrice and seek 2nd or 3rd opinion.  Its a big ticket item.

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Didnt the someone of DBS bank said something about prices of housing going down 15%, usually when things "panic" they go down more than estimates. Question is how much more and how fast.

 

As with anyone who will take a profit with what they sell, they will try to oversell you. The more they oversell, the more they earn. Housing bubble in singapore is not new news, its high time for it to descend for a while. Global economy for this year wait to be seen.

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need some views here... recently saw a two room flat 43sqm, one bedroom, one living room, small kitchen and toilet....in tpy about fifteen min from mrt, high floor with good unblocked views, near lift lobby...'265K, cov minimum 15K...was told by my agent that total may go up to 300-320K. Block upgraded not long ago... flat in good condition, hardly need much renovation. But fact remains it's two room, so future resale value may not be too good and cannot rent out one room. Given this, would U still taken it? I must say I feel good about what I saw.... just that I thought it was quite steep price for a two room flat.... any can advise?

 

I thought 2 roomers are something quite new?

I was browsing sometime back...I chance upon the studio apartment....that cannot cost this much since they have just 30year lease.

How old is this 2room flat you saw? It cant be 30years and older...am I right?

 

Don't listen to the agent...do your homework...you know what you are willing to pay for the market n condition and feel good factor.

Just make you fair offer if you want...let them come back to you. Buyers market now :D

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2-room flats have been around from the start, just more limited in numbers than 3-room flats. They are not the same as studio apartments as the latter are for senior citizens.

 

Most 2-room flats I think are built in the 70s and much fewer in the 90s.

 

Buyers market or not, you should consider your finances carefully.

 

If you feel the need to get a 2-room flat, I honestly think it'll need to be in a prime location.

 

You can also do a general search on the recent transactions on HDB website to get a feel of the range of selling prices of resale 2-room flats.

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If 2 room in the market now refer to those built in the 70s n 80s, then the flat is very old. And if the price still fetch 320k, then it is consider very expensive!

对自己好是一种幸福,

对别人好是一种积福。

 

Spend time counting your blessings,

not airing your complaints.

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If 2 room in the market now refer to those built in the 70s n 80s, then the flat is very old. And if the price still fetch 320k, then it is consider very expensive!

Isn't it obvious that guest is referring to those very old flats in Tpy! Only newly minted citizen like you expressed ignorant.

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Isn't it obvious that guest is referring to those very old flats in Tpy! Only newly minted citizen like you expressed ignorant.

We can all agree to disagree with each others views here, since no one can claim to have the 'right' answer, but can we all agree not to put each other down and use insulting words on each other? Whatever advice U gave, whether insightful or otherwise, I m grateful u R trying to help.....

Anyway, back to topic, the flat was is indeed old, near fifty. My agent did say she will check it out to see whether there will be a problem selling it in future ....

I must say the feel good factor is very strong for this flat. I would have snapped it if I were flushed with cash n not have to worry about meeting the heavy mortgagee payments of close to 1K every month. The unblocked view should stay I think, because it is taken up by some basketball courts and street soccer courts plus some garden for residents to stroll.... in my opinion, it has got everything I need, except for an extra bedroom I would need to rent out in future if I can't meet the mortgagee payments, or to generate passive income when I retire. The only other problem is the building age, with the lease coming to end in about fifths years. Not sure how this will impact the resale value and my loan with the bank. But otherwise, the building is in good condition and in midst of upgrading due to complete soon. The lift lobby is just outside the flat some more....

Agent said this price of 265k + 15k cov is norm for this flat in this location... she showed me figures in recent sales, and I think she sincere type. But I m nonetheless shocked that a two room flat can cost so much, but then I m no expert on the real estate field, which is why I seeking views here, esp among the gurus out here....

 

 

By the way, I not eligible for the new 2/3 rm flats due to be released by gov't, as someone mentioned earlier.... do not satisfy the income criterion...

Any other views will be appreciated....

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The flats at Potong Pasir were completed in 1984 and that means, the flat mentioned above should be at least 40 years old. 

 

Some issues:

With a lease of less than 60 years, can you still get a loan?

Even if you can get the loan, I still find the price much too high...265K + 15K Cov... just when I read that COV is non-existent in some deals..

The flat has almost no resale value....

And please don't believe every word your real estate agent say....

She is out to make a deal and get the commission...

 

 

Almost all flats will have their lift upgrading programme by 2015... unless you have weak knees, having a lift lobby adjacent to your flat isnt a big deal.

You should instead scout around for 3 room flats in the vicinity.. even at my estate..where there is a MRT station..and you can take your evening strolls along the Kallang River, next to St. Andrew's Village...

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We can all agree to disagree with each others views here, since no one can claim to have the 'right' answer, but can we all agree not to put each other down and use insulting words on each other? Whatever advice U gave, whether insightful or otherwise, I m grateful u R trying to help.....

Anyway, back to topic, the flat was is indeed old, near fifty. My agent did say she will check it out to see whether there will be a problem selling it in future ....

I must say the feel good factor is very strong for this flat. I would have snapped it if I were flushed with cash n not have to worry about meeting the heavy mortgagee payments of close to 1K every month. The unblocked view should stay I think, because it is taken up by some basketball courts and street soccer courts plus some garden for residents to stroll.... in my opinion, it has got everything I need, except for an extra bedroom I would need to rent out in future if I can't meet the mortgagee payments, or to generate passive income when I retire. The only other problem is the building age, with the lease coming to end in about fifths years. Not sure how this will impact the resale value and my loan with the bank. But otherwise, the building is in good condition and in midst of upgrading due to complete soon. The lift lobby is just outside the flat some more....

Agent said this price of 265k + 15k cov is norm for this flat in this location... she showed me figures in recent sales, and I think she sincere type. But I m nonetheless shocked that a two room flat can cost so much, but then I m no expert on the real estate field, which is why I seeking views here, esp among the gurus out here....

 

 

By the way, I not eligible for the new 2/3 rm flats due to be released by gov't, as someone mentioned earlier.... do not satisfy the income criterion...

Any other views will be appreciated....

Based on this new info, this 2 room is not suitable for you and financially it is very risky. All it takes is just retrenchment and you may be forced to sell at big loss and face the official assignee.

Stay put wherever you are.

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The first thing that comes to mind when i saw fifty... don't most HDB get tear down around forty years? Very high chance you buy and then HDB will give you another place to move to at a HDB price.

I also have tis though tht maybe if u buy those 2 rm flat in tpy, although may not have much resale value but wht if hdb enbloc ur flat in future, and give u a new flat somewhere nearer.

Edited by alien

对自己好是一种幸福,

对别人好是一种积福。

 

Spend time counting your blessings,

not airing your complaints.

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The first thing that comes to mind when i saw fifty... don't most HDB get tear down around forty years? Very high chance you buy and then HDB will give you another place to move to at a HDB price.

Tear down after forty years? Cannot be right? Many flats are reaching forty years soon, and some in Queenstown, tpy and older estates already have. Gov't can't possibly tear down so many flats, esp since they already invested money in upgrading....

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I also have tis though tht maybe if u buy those 2 rm flat in tpy, although may not have much resale value but wht if hdb enbloc ur flat in future, and give u a new flat somewhere nearer.

But if they just upgrade the flat, don't think they will en bloc so soon right?

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The flats at Potong Pasir were completed in 1984 and that means, the flat mentioned above should be at least 40 years old. 

 

Some issues:

With a lease of less than 60 years, can you still get a loan?

Even if you can get the loan, I still find the price much too high...265K + 15K Cov... just when I read that COV is non-existent in some deals..

The flat has almost no resale value....

And please don't believe every word your real estate agent say....

She is out to make a deal and get the commission...

 

 

Almost all flats will have their lift upgrading programme by 2015... unless you have weak knees, having a lift lobby adjacent to your flat isnt a big deal.

You should instead scout around for 3 room flats in the vicinity.. even at my estate..where there is a MRT station..and you can take your evening strolls along the Kallang River, next to St. Andrew's Village...

A few questions.

Is the property agents commission typically one percent of the sale price, where sale price is valuation price + cove? Is this commission negotiable? Does it vary among different agents?

 

Is it true that if ur avg monthly income is above 5K, U not eligible for 15K gov't housing subsidies, and U also not eligible for hdb loan but must borrow from bank, which is a bit more risky as they less sympathetic when U have problems meeting the monthly payments?

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dear Guest with Posting #919

 

You can see the answers to some of your questions at the link below:

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyResaleFlatSingleScheme?OpenDocument

 

 

Sales commissions for buyers are commonly set at 1% of total selling price but it's negotiable (be thick-skin about it). You may even conduct the purchase transaction yourself if you follow the checklist from HDB and save the 1% but that's if you know what you are doing.

 

No one can determine for you how good or bad the flat is except yourself. If you really feel good after you see the flat, I think you can further consider it carefully. But do observe the surroundings in more details e.g. upstairs/downstairs neighbours, "bad paint jobs" on the doors, smokers, mahjong players etc. You should also ask the owner why he's selling the flat now; let it come from the owner if possible.

 

Some people may think the price you talk about is expensive but I say it's an average price for a 2 room resale flat but the COV may be a little on the high side at the moment. Maybe wait a little while more to see how the property market will be like in a few months' time??

 

PS: I'm not a property agent; this is just something I like to observe in my spare time.

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Guest JustAGuest

My first gut reaction to these old 2 room HDB flats is, the neighbours may be those with "unhygenic" habits, like having a lot of stuff outside their flats, throwing things down including snot, peeing in some corners of the block leaving strong urine stench, etc. I sensed it quite a bit when I visited such blocks previously.

I do agree that the price is rather expensive. Don't count on it appreciating a lot, in view of the remaining lease period. The good thing is you can sell and lease back from HDB when you are in your old age (can't remember the requisite lease period stipulated by HDB).

I guess you are not nearing 55 any time soon, otherwise getting a studio direct from HDB would be a better bet.

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The flat at PP is 30 and that at TPY is 40...read properly and change your glasses..

Once again, TS should scout around more as it is a buyer's market now,

Take your own sweet time and don't be push by the real estate agent.

Prices will flat by up to 15% this year... accodring to Gupta, CEO DBS a couple of days ago.

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it means the market is going through correction. so prices for resale will drop by 15% estimated by DBS CEO. But with any major establishment, they will try to "optimistic" the news to avoid mass panic.

 

If this correction don't happen, we could go into a bigger bubble, and when it explodes, resale will drop by more than 15%.

 

Just think COE prices of $5000 in 2008 that kind.

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it means the market is going through correction. so prices for resale will drop by 15% estimated by DBS CEO. But with any major establishment, they will try to "optimistic" the news to avoid mass panic.

 

If this correction don't happen, we could go into a bigger bubble, and when it explodes, resale will drop by more than 15%.

 

Just think COE prices of $5000 in 2008 that kind.

so that means I should wait and see first? second half of year better for buying flats?

 

isn't that what they r saying about cars also, that car prices will start to drop only from second half of this year....

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I believe if u can afford or willing to pay for the price, think no need to wait cos nobody can confirmed tht the price will drop from second half of the year.

Edited by alien

对自己好是一种幸福,

对别人好是一种积福。

 

Spend time counting your blessings,

not airing your complaints.

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traditionally, it seems like chinese 7th month is the best month to buy.

 

why don't you reveal the location, block, floor, unit number, then there's that new govt website that can see when the building is built, what purpose and it's surrounding developments. then you have a better idea what is "going" to happen possibly in the next 3-5 years.

 

If you are going for the long term, say 10-15 years, there's not much difference in the price as it will go up and down. Different story if it's meant for speculation.

 

An asset that gains value till you die serves no purpose to yourself when dead.

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As with any govt websites, i took some time to figure this out. Hope it helps you.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/free-retrieval-of-ura/1003350.html

 

1. http://www.ura.gov.sg/uol/

2. Top Left: below About Us, click Plans & Maps

3. First line on the menu that pops up, click URA MAPS

4. A new window pops up, enter the address

5. Use the Globe icon beside GO to open up the URA Maps window

6. Scroll till you see Development Register (Planning Decisions), click on that and new window appear

7. Click on the block you intend to buy

8. The window appear with the Information what is decided. Example below.

PROPOSED DEMOLITION OF BLOCK 27A AND SURFACE CARPARK Q9 AT COMMONWEALTH AVENUE (Written Permission - 10-MAY-2011)

PROPOSED CONDOMINIUM HOUSING DEVELOPMENT COMPRISING OF 2-BLOCKS OF 43-STOREY RESIDENTIAL BUILDING(TOTAL:845 UNITS) WITH SKY TERRACES, 3 BASEMENT CARPARKS, SWIMMING POOL & COMMUNAL FACILITIES (Written Permission - 23-OCT-2013)

Edited by keyboard
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Here's the CEO thing.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-home-prices-may/997702.html

 

Singapore's property prices could fall by 10 to 15 per cent this year, as government cooling measures and mortgage curbs continue to dampen the property market. This is the outlook from DBS Bank's CEO Piyush Gupta.

 

singapore-flats.jpg
A general view of high-rise housing apartment buildings in Singapore. (AFP/Roslan Rahman)
 

SINGAPORE: Singapore's property prices could fall by 10 to 15 per cent this year, as government cooling measures and mortgage curbs continue to dampen the property market.

 

This is the outlook from DBS Bank's CEO Piyush Gupta.

 

His comment came during the bank's results briefing on Friday.

 

Since 2009, the government has rolled out a series of measures to rein in property prices, and the impact is showing.

 

In the final quarter of 2013, private home prices fell 0.9 per cent from the previous three months -- the first decline in nearly two years.

 

Mr Gupta said he expects property prices to correct by 10 to 15 per cent this year, with high-end homes taking a bigger hit.

 

His views are more bearish than those of most property analysts, who see home prices declining by 5 to 10 per cent.

 

However, DBS said it is not overly concerned about the impact of a sharp correction in residential property prices on its loans portfolio.

 

Mr Gupta said: "All our stress tests in the past have shown that we can easily withstand a 30 per cent reduction in Singapore property prices without having any material impact on our portfolio in Singapore."

 

He added that the quantum and extent of correction will also depend on any tweaks in macro-prudential policies by the government and Monetary Authority of Singapore.

 

Meanwhile, United Overseas Bank's CEO Wee Ee Cheong also expects to see a downward pressure on home prices, especially on the high-end property segment.

 

However, he said it is difficult to predict the extent of correction in property prices as it also depends on factors such as the interest rate environment, economic conditions and housing supply situation.

 

For now, DBS said it saw a 30 to 35 per cent reduction in mortgage applications as a result of the Total Debt Servicing Ratio framework put in place last June.

 

Over at OCBC, home loans volume fell by some 40 to 50 per cent in the last few quarters.

 

Housing and bridging loans account for about 30 per cent of total loans in the banking system in Singapore.

 

One concern among some observers is whether households will be able to carry a heavier debt burden as global interest rates start to normalise.

 

Samuel Tsien, CEO of OCBC Bank, said: "Because of the warnings that have been given -- and I think both the regulators and the banks have been very disciplined in making sure that borrowers understand the impact on them -- we believe that when the interest rate rises, it will be within the capacity of the borrowers."

 

OCBC said it does not expect global interest rates to rise till 2015, while DBS said it won't be surprised if rates start to rise only from 2017.

 

DBS said more borrowers are taking on fixed rate loans to protect themselves from a rising interest rate environment.  

 

- CNA/ac/ms

Edited by keyboard
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Is cov 15k considered very high for a three rm flat near mrt high floor with unblocked view and well renovated within? In Bt Gombak.

Yes... only because it is at Gombak, so far from town

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I know someone just bought a 3 rm at 380k no cov, at tiong bahru 5 mins to mrt, upgraded, high flr, unblock, in good condition(ie renovated).

So it is possible to buy a flat with no cov even at prime location.

 

The downside is valuation is very high at centrally located flat. Bank loan may be less due to the older age of the flat.

I feel is a good buy because it has 2brm plus one utility room that can be converted to a small bed rm and if you need to very to easy to rent out the rooms due to central location.

And once you fulfil the mop, the flat can be rented out at 2.2-2.3k at current rate easily.

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The one thing that I learned about home ownership is the willingness at its affordability.  My motto - let one foot in after prudent financial consideration.  Importantly, do your financial homeworks before the house-hunting.  At the stage of implementation, see if it viable and affordable.  Over thinking does not pay.

 

There will always be pros and cons.  Negotiation is the key.  Fact remains, buying a property is usually long term unless you are a high risk speculator for short term transactions.

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I feel is a good buy because it has 2brm plus one utility room that can be converted to a small bed rm and if you need to very to easy to rent out the rooms due to central location.

 

And once you fulfil the mop, the flat can be rented out at 2.2-2.3k at current rate easily.

 

Never use rental as a justification for buying a flat. Rental market is not as good as before. Moreover, you might have to deal with tenancy issues.

 

You can also refer to HDB past transactions: http://services2.hdb.gov.sg/webapp/BB33RTIS/BB33PReslTrans.jsp. I agree with IkuTube posting above. Most AJ have the tendency to overspend.

Edited by MobyDick
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Guest yes agree

Never use rental as a justification for buying a flat. Rental market is not as good as before. Moreover, you might have to deal with tenancy issues.

Yes I agree. Skater made flat rental sounds too easy haha.

Btw Skater, $38k is a bit too steep for a 3room. Thank goodness 0 COV, or else it may cost near $40k.

I think the high cost is due to the well maintained reno. But personally, I rather get a flat with good location and neighbours, but not in move in condition, so that I can save on the payment and use it to renovate the flat the way I like.

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anyone can explain to me the logic behind why if u intend to live in the flat, can buy straight away, no need wait for price to come down....but if u plan to use it as investment, then more important to watch the timing to buy....heard this a few times, and it is also mentioned in today's papers under the property investment section.

But I was thinking, even if I buy the flat with intention to stay in it (and perhaps rent out one room in future), I also need to watch the timing and price right? If the price is high and I still make a move into the market, would I not have to service a higher loan since the purchase price is higher? Wouldn't it make more sense to wait for the price to come down then buy, so that less pressure on servicing loan since monthly instalment will be lower? Am I missing something here? can someone help enlighten?

 

notice also that most 3room flat the units along the corridor all the windows and doors slam shut one....so unfriendly....no wonder people say the kampong spirit is dead....

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Nowadays no matter whether ur unit is along corridor, or corner hse, whether it is 3 rm or bigger flat, all shut their door n window. Even u get to see ur neighbour walk out from their flat n they also wld not say hi.

Edited by alien

对自己好是一种幸福,

对别人好是一种积福。

 

Spend time counting your blessings,

not airing your complaints.

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The price of resale flat depends mostly on the location than the age of the flat. If u buy resale flat at those town area, near town area or popular area, even level 2 or 3 also can fetch very high price.

对自己好是一种幸福,

对别人好是一种积福。

 

Spend time counting your blessings,

not airing your complaints.

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How to check if got strike lottery? Will they inform us by sms?

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Resale flat is still very expensive, if you check the HDB resale transaction history, some 3rm can transact above 500K even though they are 'old' they mainly located in Holland V and Queenstown area.

So BTO is best but only 2rm available only?

Oh my goodness.... the prices had gone absurd...

I had never knew that a 3 room flat in my estate is worth 323K..and that is nearer to the CTE/PIE and a 10 mins walk from the MRT Station. and another at Tanjung Pager went for 505K...both flats were at least built 30 years ago...

 

Yes BTO is here to retain some form of sanity...

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How to check if got strike lottery? Will they inform us by sms?

When u applied tht time, u can opt to receive the results by email or letter. U can also check online at hdb website under application status.

对自己好是一种幸福,

对别人好是一种积福。

 

Spend time counting your blessings,

not airing your complaints.

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Bto not easy to get, unlike like resale flat u have money u can buy the flat. Bto is all abt luck, no luck even u have money also no use.

对自己好是一种幸福,

对别人好是一种积福。

 

Spend time counting your blessings,

not airing your complaints.

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