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Discussion About Single & Hdb Flat Ownership + Hdb Loan (Compiled)


worldangel

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8 hours ago, Guest guest said:

Unit facing directly a traffic junction really feng shui not very good, most importantly is it would be quite noisy from the traffic sound. Esp at night when you are sleeping. Sometimes even close the window also can hear.

 

What you mean by point 4?

 

If don't like and move house, needs to spend lots of money lor. Cannot anyhow move house.

If you renovate minimum for the first 5 years, not much costs or the cost can transfer to the new owners who prefer live in conditions.

 

Point 4 is about, if you really want the perfect home for you, just look at all the listing in the few property sites. Once you go through all, you cannot can't find your dream home (if you actually have that kind of time). Else, instead of going for commission rates type, find the fixed rate service type where they will cater to what your requirements are (though their listing is lesser).

 

You can't wait forever because the better one wont necessary be available when you want it.

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2 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

What is the total transaction fees ( legal and stamp fees)?

 

This is from 99.co website's article dated 3/4/2023:

 

Stage of Purchase Fees Payable Amount Payable Payment Mode
BTO application Application fee S$10 Credit card or mobile payment app (eg. DBS PayLah!, UOB TMRW, OCBC Pay Anyone, etc.)
Flat booking Option Fee (forms part of the downpayment) 2-room Flexi: S$500

3-room: S$1,000

4-room and bigger: S$2,000
NETS
Signing of HDB Lease Agreement Buyer's Stamp Duty (BSD) First S$180,000: 1%

Next S$180,000: 2%

Next S$640,000: 3%

Next S$500,000: 4% 

Next S$1.5m: 5% 

Remaining amount: 6% 

(Given the price of BTO flats, the BSD rate payable should be up to 3%.)
GIRO, PayNow, AXS, internet banking, SingPost, cheque
 
  Conveyancing Fee (also known as legal fee)  First S$30,000: S$0.90 per S$1,000

Next S$30,000: S$0.72 per S$1,000

Remaining amount: S$0.60 per S$1,000

Rounded up to nearest dollar before applying for GST. 
 
  Downpayment If taking HDB loan: 10% of purchase price, with CPF or cash

If taking bank loan with LTV of 75%: 5% cash, 15% CPF and/or cash

If taking bank loan with LTV of 55%: 10% cash, 10% CPF and/or cash
 
Key collection Registration fee Lease In-Escrow: S$38.30

Mortgage In-Escrow: S$38.30
Cashier's Order, CPF
  Survey fee 1-room: S$162

2-room: S$162

3-room: S$229.50

4-room: S$297

5-room: S$351

Executive: S$405

(inclusive of 8% GST) 
 
  Stamp duty for Deed of Assignment 0.4% of the loan amount, up to S$500   
  Home Protection Scheme (HPS) annual premium If you’re using CPF to pay for loan instalments, depends on factors like outstanding loan  
  Fire Insurance 
premium for 5 years
If you’re taking HDB loan

1-room: S$1.63

2-room: S$2.73 

3-room: S$4.91

4-room: S$5.99

5-room: S$7.19 

Executive: S$8.18

(inclusive of 8% GST)
Cannot be paid with CPF
  Downpayment For flat applications received between 16 Dec 2021 and 29 Sep 2022: 5% of purchase price, with CPF or cash 

For flat applications received after 29 Sep 2022: 10% of purchase price, with CPF or cash 

If taking bank loan with 75% LTV: 5% of purchase price with CPF and/or cash

If taking bank loan with 55% LTV: 
25% of purchase price with CPF and/or cash
 
  Balance of purchase price This will be covered by the home loan if you’re taking it   
       

 

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2 hours ago, keyboard said:

If you renovate minimum for the first 5 years, not much costs or the cost can transfer to the new owners who prefer live in conditions.

 

Point 4 is about, if you really want the perfect home for you, just look at all the listing in the few property sites. Once you go through all, you cannot can't find your dream home (if you actually have that kind of time). Else, instead of going for commission rates type, find the fixed rate service type where they will cater to what your requirements are (though their listing is lesser).

 

You can't wait forever because the better one wont necessary be available when you want it.

Agreed, cannot wait forever because the better one or the one that i want won't appear when i want it. I should just change my mindset and buy what is available in the market when i want to buy at that point of time. There is no perfect house and everything would be flawless in that house, no matter which unit, sure to have some flaws and i need to accept it and live with it. This would greatly reduce my stress and headache.

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1 hour ago, Guest guest said:

Agreed, cannot wait forever because the better one or the one that i want won't appear when i want it. I should just change my mindset and buy what is available in the market when i want to buy at that point of time. There is no perfect house and everything would be flawless in that house, no matter which unit, sure to have some flaws and i need to accept it and live with it. This would greatly reduce my stress and headache.

👍 I bought an undesirable rundown flat in 1995 (COV $15K, no thanks to my property agent). However, I was blessed to have very good neighbours and lived there for more than 20 years.

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7 minutes ago, Guest HDB said:

👍 I bought an undesirable rundown flat in 1995 (COV $15K, no thanks to my property agent). However, I was blessed to have very good neighbours and lived there for more than 20 years.

Rundown flat still needs to pay 15k COV! 

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48 minutes ago, Guest guest said:

Rundown flat still needs to pay 15k COV! 

I was young & naive then and trusted my property agent (ex-colleague's husband). Not long after moving in, I happened to meet the seller's property agent @ my workplace. He told me that the seller had intended to sell at a lower price but my property agent spoke to her & unexpectedly go for higher asking price ($13K more). I was totally unaware but didn't negotiate further.

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16 minutes ago, Guest HDB said:

I was young & naive then and trusted my property agent (ex-colleague's husband). Not long after moving in, I happened to meet the seller's property agent @ my workplace. He told me that the seller had intended to sell at a lower price but my property agent spoke to her & unexpectedly go for higher asking price ($13K more). I was totally unaware but didn't negotiate further.

Thought the agent is your own agent and should help you to get as lower price as possible, how come your agent helps the seller instead. 😅

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1 hour ago, Guest guest said:

Thought the agent is your own agent and should help you to get as lower price as possible, how come your agent helps the seller instead. 😅

It’s likely because the agent’s commission will be higher. 

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7 hours ago, keyboard said:

You can't wait forever because the better one wont necessary be available when you want it.

If Singapore population goes up by 10K annually, the number of buyers viewing a single unit will also go up accordingly, and became quite competitive for a choiced home.  It make worse when Plus and Prime district kicks in and many BTO home owner cannot sell their unit without meeting the 10 years MOP.  

4 hours ago, Guest HDB said:

👍 I bought an undesirable rundown flat in 1995 (COV $15K, no thanks to my property agent). However, I was blessed to have very good neighbours and lived there for more than 20 years.

Assuming you bought a 3-room resale flat in 1995, I guessed the value is thereabout $95K (excluding grant for single?).  Looking back, what is COV $15K to you then,  when current resale 3-room flat has jumped to $400K to $500K?   I guessed many people envy you today.

 

 

Edited by Sweetie Pie
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2 hours ago, Guest guest said:

Thought the agent is your own agent and should help you to get as lower price as possible, how come your agent helps the seller instead. 😅

I believed the buyer didn't tell the agent about his budget and allow the agent to earn maximum commission possible.   I did set my budget when I engaged my agent, so that if seller asked for a certain high price, my agent will not bring me to view the flat and waste both our time.  The only exception is when Seller told my agent the price is still NEGOTIABLE

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4 hours ago, Guest guest said:

Thought the agent is your own agent and should help you to get as lower price as possible, how come your agent helps the seller instead. 😅

Things were different back then as there was very little information on the housing market (but now it’s all readily available from the internet). I had no choice but to depend on my property agent for advice & price. Anyway, that's history.

 

1 hour ago, Sweetie Pie said:

Assuming you bought a 3-room resale flat in 1995, I guessed the value is thereabout $95K (excluding grant for single?).  Looking back, what is COV $15K to you then,  when current resale 3-room flat has jumped to $400K to $500K?   I guessed many people envy you today.

 

👍 I bought it for $98K and spent another $50K+ on renovation, furniture & home appliances. Sold for $310K in 2018.

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50 minutes ago, Guest HDB said:

Things were different back then as there was very little information on the housing market (but now it’s all readily available from the internet). I had no choice but to depend on my property agent for advice & price. Anyway, that's history.

 

👍 I bought it for $98K and spent another $50K+ on renovation, furniture & home appliances. Sold for $310K in 2018.

How are you able to enjoy the single grant twice? 1st grant for resale 3room then the 2nd grant for BTO 2 Flexi?

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1 hour ago, Guest HDB said:

👍 I bought it for $98K and spent another $50K+ on renovation, furniture & home appliances. Sold for $310K in 2018.

It baffles me. GST was 3% in those years, the average pay for a senior manager in Singapore was $3000, and spending $50K is regarded as opulent, high-end price. I'm assuming you added genuine diamond chandelier lighting, gold-plated toilet bowls, imported genuine Greek marble statue ornaments to go with your gold-colored marble floors, an ultra-sound theater system, rosewood doors, an argarwood cabinet, and so on.  

 

In 2018, you sold your house for only $310K, which on average market price should be at least $350K even in ulu ulu place?   

 

I can't fault you.  I think you are a very rich senior citizen, probably a director of certain company when you were young.

 

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3 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

How are you able to enjoy the single grant twice? 1st grant for resale 3room then the 2nd grant for BTO 2 Flexi?

There was no Housing Grant for Singles then. I took it up only for my present flat.

 

3 hours ago, Sweetie Pie said:

In 2018, you sold your house for only $310K, which on average market price should be at least $350K even in ulu ulu place?   

 

Since peaking in 2013, the average HDB resale prices fell for a couple of years. I actually sold my previous flat for a good price.

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9 hours ago, Sweetie Pie said:

If Singapore population goes up by 10K annually, the number of buyers viewing a single unit will also go up accordingly, and became quite competitive for a choiced home.  It make worse when Plus and Prime district kicks in and many BTO home owner cannot sell their unit without meeting the 10 years MOP.  

Assuming you bought a 3-room resale flat in 1995, I guessed the value is thereabout $95K (excluding grant for single?).  Looking back, what is COV $15K to you then,  when current resale 3-room flat has jumped to $400K to $500K?   I guessed many people envy you today.

 

If you look at the price in 1995 in 2023, surely you would find the price in 1995 quite cheap as compared to the price now. But if in 1995 maybe $95k is consider not a small sum of money. Perhaps you have to be rich to be able to afford to buy housing at that price.

 

Same theory could also happens when you think you buy a HDB at $400k to $500k in 2023 is ex, but in next 20 years, people in 2043 would envy those who bought $500k HDB is cheap. 😂

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6 hours ago, Sweetie Pie said:

It baffles me. GST was 3% in those years, the average pay for a senior manager in Singapore was $3000, and spending $50K is regarded as opulent, high-end price. I'm assuming you added genuine diamond chandelier lighting, gold-plated toilet bowls, imported genuine Greek marble statue ornaments to go with your gold-colored marble floors, an ultra-sound theater system, rosewood doors, an argarwood cabinet, and so on.  

 

In 2018, you sold your house for only $310K, which on average market price should be at least $350K even in ulu ulu place?   

 

I can't fault you.  I think you are a very rich senior citizen, probably a director of certain company when you were young.

 

Think in somewhere 2017 to 2018, the property price in resale market dropped quite a bit. Many resales flat price sold quite low. My parents 4 rm flat sold only at $340k due to location not very popular. And now i saw that the same flat can sell for $450k even the location still not very popular.

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8 minutes ago, Guest guest said:

For a single person staying only, would it be too big to buy a 4 rm flat to stay?

It's very surprising to hear people in Singapore says there's too much space in housing. Being used to a lower quality of life does not make it ok. A bedroom is meant to be for sleeping - not to include a wardrobe, desk for working, movie, TV etc.

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Guest Comparison
12 hours ago, Guest guest said:

If you look at the price in 1995 in 2023, surely you would find the price in 1995 quite cheap as compared to the price now. But if in 1995 maybe $95k is consider not a small sum of money. Perhaps you have to be rich to be able to afford to buy housing at that price.

 

Same theory could also happens when you think you buy a HDB at $400k to $500k in 2023 is ex, but in next 20 years, people in 2043 would envy those who bought $500k HDB is cheap. 😂

Singapore average worker's salary is not catching up with the spike in housing price from 1995 to 2023 and we are talking about 400% increase in housing price.  Which means that if your monthly income in 1995 is $3000,  you should be earning $12000 in 2023 to do catch up.  If you are unemployed or underemployed, in most cases, you are screwed.

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16 minutes ago, keyboard said:

It's very surprising to hear people in Singapore says there's too much space in housing. Being used to a lower quality of life does not make it ok. A bedroom is meant to be for sleeping - not to include a wardrobe, desk for working, movie, TV etc.

So your point is? 😅

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14 minutes ago, Guest Comparison said:

Singapore average worker's salary is not catching up with the spike in housing price from 1995 to 2023 and we are talking about 400% increase in housing price.  Which means that if your monthly income in 1995 is $3000,  you should be earning $12000 in 2023 to do catch up.  If you are unemployed or underemployed, in most cases, you are screwed.

In order to earn $12k in 2023, you must be in a DM/manager level. If you are in a non manager level, you might not be earning $12k. I assume in engineer and executive level in most companies, the highest salary that you can earn should be around $7k to $9k even you reached the senior engineer/executive grade.

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Looking at a corner unit at level 4 but above the entrance/exit of a residential carpark.

 

Although it has a slope, cars are quite quiet when going up or down, the noisy ones are the motorbikes and trunks.

 

I'm a super light sleeper. Not sure if the noise and vibration is bad enough to wake me up. No chance to test out.

 

Who stay near car park entrance/exit? How is it?

 

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2 hours ago, Guest guest said:

For a single person staying only, would it be too big to buy a 4 rm flat to stay?

I moved into a 2 room BTO last year as a single. It’s been comfortable enough but it does feel tight when I have more than 2 people over.  Currently, my intention is to sell after MOP is met and to upgrade to a 4 room resale.  

 

My rationale is that I have options with a bigger flat - I can set aside a room for a live-in helper if the need arises, I can rent out 1-2 rooms if I’m tight for cash (this is so important to consider!), I can host friend/family for short-term stay when necessary.

 

Unless you are certain you will never need to live with others I’d recommend getting at least a 3 room or larger if you can afford it.  

Edited by AMLatte
Clarity
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41 minutes ago, AMLatte said:

I moved into a 2 room BTO last year as a single. It’s been comfortable enough but it does feel tight when I have more than 2 people over.  Currently, my intention is to sell after MOP is met and to upgrade to a 4 room resale.  

 

 

Why don't you buy a 4-room resale in the first place?  Now you may have to pay for your resale levy if you sell your 2-room to buy a 4-room

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11 minutes ago, Guest Levy said:

Why don't you buy a 4-room resale in the first place?  Now you may have to pay for your resale levy if you sell your 2-room to buy a 4-room

There's no resale levy unless he buys a second subsidised flat from HDB.

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1 hour ago, kidster said:

Looking at a corner unit at level 4 but above the entrance/exit of a residential carpark.

 

Although it has a slope, cars are quite quiet when going up or down, the noisy ones are the motorbikes and trunks.

 

I'm a super light sleeper. Not sure if the noise and vibration is bad enough to wake me up. No chance to test out.

 

Who stay near car park entrance/exit? How is it?

 

Should be ok. My unit is opposite the multi-storey carpark and only my main door faces it. Am a light sleeper too but I have no complaint unless somebody's car alarm is triggered and that only happens once in a blue moon.

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Guest Nature Guy

My friend house is facing the main road, very noisy and at night he said some inconsider drivers or motorcyclist deliberately pushed the engines to the maximum to create deafening sound,  Complain to their MP is useless.  

 

As for my own house, it was away from the main road and quite peaceful.  i loves listening to birds singing every morning because there were many trees neerby in contrast to loud road traffic.

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5 hours ago, kidster said:

Looking at a corner unit at level 4 but above the entrance/exit of a residential carpark.

 

Although it has a slope, cars are quite quiet when going up or down, the noisy ones are the motorbikes and trunks.

 

I'm a super light sleeper. Not sure if the noise and vibration is bad enough to wake me up. No chance to test out.

 

Who stay near car park entrance/exit? How is it?

 

Avoid lower floors. Don't live "near" multi-storey car park but can hear the "screeching" tyre noise depending on what is facing it. Vibration is don't have, but see where is the power transformer in that estate (it's usually at the back of the carpark).

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9 hours ago, kidster said:

Looking at a corner unit at level 4 but above the entrance/exit of a residential carpark.

 

Although it has a slope, cars are quite quiet when going up or down, the noisy ones are the motorbikes and trunks.

 

I'm a super light sleeper. Not sure if the noise and vibration is bad enough to wake me up. No chance to test out.

 

Who stay near car park entrance/exit? How is it?

 

For light sleeper, better don't buy unit facing road and carpark, esp if you stay in low floor.

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9 hours ago, AMLatte said:

I moved into a 2 room BTO last year as a single. It’s been comfortable enough but it does feel tight when I have more than 2 people over.  Currently, my intention is to sell after MOP is met and to upgrade to a 4 room resale.  

 

My rationale is that I have options with a bigger flat - I can set aside a room for a live-in helper if the need arises, I can rent out 1-2 rooms if I’m tight for cash (this is so important to consider!), I can host friend/family for short-term stay when necessary.

 

Unless you are certain you will never need to live with others I’d recommend getting at least a 3 room or larger if you can afford it.  

I find one person staying in a 4 rm flat abit 'scary', as it feels like the house too spacious. Also when comes to cleaning of the house, 4 rm not easy to clean, esp when you are not that young anymore.

 

However, i do agreed that if stay in a 4 rm, you have more options in future if you want to rent out room or a rm for helper if needs to hire one, or host for friend/family for stay. Staying in a 3 rm flat would be a bit small, unless only 1 person staying forever, then 3 rm size would be just nice.

 

Also if buy 4 rm flat, reno would be more expensive as compared reno a 3 rm, this should be consider as well. Even though for current market, if you plan to buy an older 4 rm flat, the price is about the same as a just MOP 3 rm flat price.

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9 hours ago, Guest HDB said:

There's no resale levy unless he buys a second subsidised flat from HDB.

Resale levy needs to pay only when you buy a new BTO. If buy resale, don't think have resale levy. Furthermore think one person can only get one grant for his HDB.

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Guest Slight Sleeper
12 minutes ago, Guest guest said:

For light sleeper, better don't buy unit facing road and carpark, esp if you stay in low floor.

Can't agree more.

 

Bought a unit on the 15th floor but master room was facing the main room. Was frequently woken up by speeding motor bikes late at night.

 

And once rented a 5-room for 2 years with master room next to a carpark but away from any roads. It was hell in the wee hours of the morning. Motor bikes warming up by revving their motor...

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8 hours ago, Guest HDB said:

Should be ok. My unit is opposite the multi-storey carpark and only my main door faces it. Am a light sleeper too but I have no complaint unless somebody's car alarm is triggered and that only happens once in a blue moon.

If your living rm and bedrom windows not facing the MSCP, or even facing MSCP but on a high floor, should not be a problem. If only your main door faces it, confirmed no problem lah

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1 minute ago, Guest Slight Sleeper said:

Can't agree more.

 

Bought a unit on the 15th floor but master room was facing the main room. Was frequently woken up by speeding motor bikes late at night.

 

And once rented a 5-room for 2 years with master room next to a carpark but away from any roads. It was hell in the wee hours of the morning. Motor bikes warming up by revving their motor...

Facing main road and carpark sure can hear noise. But if you are staying above 15 floor but facing the MSCP, still can hear noise since your unit is way above the MSCP?

 

By the way, you rented a 5 rm for 2 years? Whole unit or rm only? The rental you have paid must be quite ex. I plan to rent a whole unit of 2rm or 3 rm for 1 year, but after checking the price, needs to pay total around $30k, find too ex and not worth.

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Guest Light Sleeper
59 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

Facing main road and carpark sure can hear noise. But if you are staying above 15 floor but facing the MSCP, still can hear noise since your unit is way above the MSCP?

 

By the way, you rented a 5 rm for 2 years? Whole unit or rm only? The rental you have paid must be quite ex. I plan to rent a whole unit of 2rm or 3 rm for 1 year, but after checking the price, needs to pay total around $30k, find too ex and not worth.

I rented the whole unit at Blk 351C Canberra Rd, on 2nd level, next to the MSCP. The master room  was just next to the MSCP. 

 

That was in 2009. Rental was cheaper there then at $1,600 per month. Cost me $38,400 for 24 months, excluding agency fees. 

 

A 3-room unit at Serangoon Ave 3 for the same year (2009) was $2,200.

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16 hours ago, Guest guest said:

For a single person staying only, would it be too big to buy a 4 rm flat to stay?

If your budget allows it, then it is not  Furthermore you can generate  plenty of rental income in your twilight years.

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8 hours ago, Guest Light Sleeper said:

I rented the whole unit at Blk 351C Canberra Rd, on 2nd level, next to the MSCP. The master room  was just next to the MSCP. 

 

That was in 2009. Rental was cheaper there then at $1,600 per month. Cost me $38,400 for 24 months, excluding agency fees. 

 

A 3-room unit at Serangoon Ave 3 for the same year (2009) was $2,200.

$38k for 2 years lease consider cheap if you compared now, Currently $30k plus can only rent for 1 year. And this $30k plus only can rent a 2 rm/3rm.

 

So the tenant needs to pay for agency fees? This agency fees is when you engage agent to find the house for you? 

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6 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

If your budget allows it, then it is not  Furthermore you can generate  plenty of rental income in your twilight years.

If buying an older flat, $400k plus can buy a 4 rm. For the same amount of money, you can only get a 3 rm.

 

But the reno cost for a 4 rm would be more expensive than reno a 3 rm. Even have money to buy, maybe no money to reno.

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49 minutes ago, Guest guest said:

If buying an older flat, $400k plus can buy a 4 rm. For the same amount of money, you can only get a 3 rm.

 

But the reno cost for a 4 rm would be more expensive than reno a 3 rm. Even have money to buy, maybe no money to reno.

Plenty of commercial banks offer up to 5 times your monthly for renovation loan. If your job are rock solid, it is not an issue. I believe you are buying a resale flat for the first time so it's good to familiarise yourself with the true ownership cost between a 3 and a 4 room. Mortgage insurance cost (HPS) is an issue you must be mindful of. It can be costly because of your advanced age and high protection sum. 

 

Many factors to consider beyond renovation cost.

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6 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

Plenty of commercial banks offer up to 5 times your monthly for renovation loan. If your job are rock solid, it is not an issue. I believe you are buying a resale flat for the first time so it's good to familiarise yourself with the true ownership cost between a 3 and a 4 room. Mortgage insurance cost (HPS) is an issue you must be mindful of. It can be costly because of your advanced age and high protection sum. 

 

Many factors to consider beyond renovation cost.

Roughly how much is the HPS for a 4 rm? Anyway, i would think anything should be more costly to maintain a 4 rm flat than a 3 rm flat.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Guest guest said:

Roughly how much is the HPS for a 4 rm? Anyway, i would think anything should be more costly to maintain a 4 rm flat than a 3 rm flat.

 

 

Factors such as:

 

1. Age (Next birthday)

2. Occupation (High or low risk)

3. Sum insured.

4. General health (Smoker?)

5. .......

 

will determine the premium. You can opt for the HDB HPS which means it will deduct a lump sum of your CPF and provide mortgage protection during the tenure of the loan. Or you can choose a commercial insurer like Income Insurance Limited with yearly premium. I am on Income as the total sum paid was lower by 10%.

 

Now already year end and by 2024 our GST will be 9%. Everything will cost more so be mentally prepared.

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