Should I Declare I am Gay during NS ? + Advise for Declaring 302 (Compiled)

[Allegro]

Hi,

I got a burning question to ask everyone.

Is it better to declare 302 when serving the SAF?

Is there any advantages/disadvantages doing so?

I am a closeted gay and I have been acting straight all the while.

I guess my acting looks to real that know one know that I am gay.

All these while, I have been behaving like how a straight guy should behaves.

When someone talks to me about girl stuffs or ask me if I have a girlfriend, I would pretend to have a conversation with them so they would not suspect that I am one. Including my superiors.

But I am sick of doing or this things. I am sick of pretending and acting. I just don't feel myself doing all this things. I just do it so as to blend into the platoon and not be an outcast and be discriminated if they find out.

You think I should declare 302? There is no reservist if I am not wrong?

I need advice and opinions about this...

You said you are closeted yet you post your pic here for all to see.

Funny leh

[zcbm101]

I served my NS in the ministry.

As mentioned by all the good answers here, it depends on what you want - I might be regurgitating here, but to put it simply:

1. During your medical, if you declare, you will go through a Psychiatric examination. Medical officers will put you through a series of tests to determine if you are AJ.

2. Your parents will be informed and possibly interviewed.

3. Depending on how effeminate (ah kua) you are, you will be graded a PES status accordingly. You will probably go through a modified Basic Military Training and be posted to a vocation where you DO NOT need to stay in (means can go home everyday) - possibly a clerk or storeman. You will also not be posted to any sensitive units.

4. Your unit commanders will be aware of your condition (they will label you 302). Usually they will keep quiet about it.

5. I have not heard about 302 cases being excused from reservist - except those very effeminate ones or transexuals.

6. You will not be "marked" or "blacklisted" for life. As pointed out by many others, they can go on to govt jobs etc etc. All these rumours about blacklisting you and not allowing you to get married or stop you from getting govt jobs - all bullshit.

Having said that, you will miss out on alot of bonding and good times with your other platoon mates. While they are out chionging, you will be doing office work and missing out. If you really don't mind that, then by all means, go ahead. I've known of AJ friends in BMT who didn't declare, but behave in such an openly AJ manner that everyone sort of knew they are AJ. But they were still accepted and favoured by their superiors and unit people - simply because they work hard and excel twice as much as others.

Now you have the facts, it is your choice.

You can also declare halfway through NS - you'll be put through a psychiatric test too, and if needed, be posted out to another unit.

All the best:)

[happy.99]

you have to face no2. your parents will be informed and interviewed. can get pass that, nothing is more worst

[Guest alien]

I always heard if u declare 302, u will go through a psychiatric examination and the medical officers will put you through a series of tests to determine if you are AJ. I am wondering wht test wld they test u so that they can confirmed u r gay leh?

It is they ask a another gay to "seduce" u, and see whether u got hard or not? Or let u watch gay video and see whether u got hard and wet or not eh? Haha!

Anyway, i dun support declare 302, esp if u are str8 acting. Going thru ns with your platoon mates, surviving and sweat it out in all army training is fun lah.

[fab]

According to

Believer from Trevvy: your parents will not find out if you don't want them to. The mo has the responsibility of keeping it confidential. 1st hand experience.

http://www.trevvy.com/sgboyx/index.php?showtopic=29712

[slimgayteen90]

sweetie.. im against u to declare 302 in NS too..

cos its not worth it like what the rest of them said. The NS will require u to ask a parent or family member down to verify your orientation. be a good boy, don declare. live with it. NS is more fun without declaring 302..

my kor (gay) he declared 302 right after BMT and stuffs happen, tho he say the psychitrist is hot. but not worth la.. from wad i see in the forum posts, 80% is against the idea of declaring 302 in NS. so ya, dont..

or ill squeeze u hahaha

Edited May 5, 2011 by GachiMuchi

[darkflame]

Declaring 302 is like coming out officially on paper.

If you're uncomfortable with it, it's better not to declare.

One guy in my unit declared 302 before.

Though I don't know what happened to him now,

he seems okay to me.

But it's still not advisable, since I think not everyone needs to know your sexual orientation.

[Avecinfuser]

Don't declare 302!!! Serving NS with the rest of the straight men was the most amazing and unforgettable experience of my life!!! And I've never regretted it!!! I came out of my 2 years in the army bending 2 straight guys to become my boyfriends, one after another, and even had my first gay anal sex with one of them. They were cute, young, hot bod but now married with children. Truthfully, it was an incredible period in my life where I realised the full potential of what it means to be gay. Of course, being gay is not just about bending straight guys but it's a good way to start when you've just come out to yourself at the sweet age of 18yo. I associate the feeling akin to the blossoming of a flower....a very gay flower

[Guest jayy]

It never crossed my mind to declare. IMO, my sexual orientation is my business, definitely NOT the government's. Anyway, gay or straight it has nothing to do with the task at hand. Just answer the call of duty and tough it out for two years.

[Guest 313]

Disadvantage : declaring 302 by law hereby do not allow you to bring BAR SOAP into the camp or any public bathrooms like gym shower, swimming pool showers etc to avoid any unwanted unintentional 'soap dropping' incidents.

lol joking ...

Just my input that by declaring 302, you can 'sin nang' become pes E and become clerk for the 2 years 3 months

On the other side , 302 cannot re declare his orientation which means maybe you are 40 years old and re think that you want to get married and settle down, as your sexual orientation may be bi after many years since 18 years old.. POSSIBLE

Some times jobs requires you to go for medical screening,, especially MNC .. the doctors will sometime ask which pes status are you during BMT, to look for traces of abnormalities , perhaps such as depression, diseases ... etc maybe your 302 may be noted down depending on situation of job scope

other than that I cant think of anything yet

But as long as you not super kua, or effeminate , there are many ajs and str mixed together. You can find good friends that last even after your service.

[jarboy]

sweetie.. im against u to declare 302 in NS too..

cos its not worth it like what the rest of them said. The NS will require u to ask a parent or family member down to verify your orientation. be a good boy, don declare. live with it. NS is more fun without declaring 302..

my kor (gay) he declared 302 right after BMT and stuffs happen, tho he say the psychitrist is hot. but not worth la.. from wad i see in the forum posts, 80% is against the idea of declaring 302 in NS. so ya, dont..

or ill squeeze u hahaha

LOL I agree with mr slimgayteen90 here. NS is an experience not to be missed

.

I certainly had incidents where I could have an excuse to get upclose n personal (emotionally/physically) with plenty of guys (mostly str8 though).

Chionging in the forest and experiencing shyt together forms a special bond (camaraderie?) between section/team/bunk/platoon mates etc that will never happen in a real world situation...Going thru hell together may not seem fun then, but it certainly gives you nostalgic memories to recall with ur frens. Tragedy bonds :thumb:

.

Though I was and still am str8 acting (well I'm bisexual for the record) I had frens who were open about their sexuality to some of us. Of course we gave them pet names n teased them but to my knowledge none of them were outed.

Other than NS, life will probably not give you another opportunity to get close with such a wide variety of guys.

.

I'm not saying you should do the same as the majority of us. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be too flippant about skipping the NS experience.

P.S. Staying in the closet can be hard at times but it does have its conveniences, trivial though they maybe...

.

Anyways we lie all the time, from the teeny weeny stuff to other impt matters, so merely concealing your sexuality shouldn't be a biggie imho. PPL often have masks n personalities that they wear on according to the time, place and circumstance there are in, regardless of their sexuality.

If u trust a fren then just go ahead n tell him or her that you're not into gals, I am into gals so I'm saved off this particular lie, but I still do have a few close str8 frens who know that I love guys too :whistle:

[Guest erm]

hey anyone declared gay before ns, what will happen after that if you did?

just curious

[Guest brando]

hey anyone declared gay before ns, what will happen after that if you did?

just curious

Everyone, including your parents, will know.

[Guest -erm-]

Everyone, including your parents, will know.

you declared?

[Guest brando]

you declared?

Nope....

[Guest declared]

You'll have to come back for a visit with their psychiatrist together with your parents.

i declared but did not informed my parents about the visit. Told the MO that they were overseas. Haha

[Guest brando]

So they accepted that your parents are overseas and did not insist that they have to come to verify when they return?

[Guest alien]

Wondering wht test did the MO test u if u declare 302? And from the tests they can confirm wht u have declared is true?!

[Guest Dumamay]

I am a PR here and I will be enlisting early next month , I did thought of declaring but afraid that by doing so I won't be able to get my sg citizenship , is that so !??

[passby]

on the contrary, i had a super masculine, super beng, super "i only eat cunts so fxxk off you faggots" platoon mate back in bmt. he was the target board of everyone in the company for being stuck up and excessively chauvinistic.

Did u declare then?

[Clickclock]

Hey guys, i've just finished field camp and I have some dying questions to ask.

Firstly, only answer my question when you have hard, solid references or evidence, official ones. Cuz most of the replies I get are like 20 years old or something that are outdated.

if I declare that im gay, what will happen to me after BMTC?

here are my concerns

1. will my parents be notified? i heard from the OO that we can bargain

2. is it true I will be more likely to be posted to a non combat unit? ^^

[Guest Guest]

Hey guys, i've just finished field camp and I have some dying questions to ask.

Firstly, only answer my question when you have hard, solid references or evidence, official ones. Cuz most of the replies I get are like 20 years old or something that are outdated.

if I declare that im gay, what will happen to me after BMTC?

here are my concerns

1. will my parents be notified? i heard from the OO that we can bargain

2. is it true I will be more likely to be posted to a non combat unit? ^^

The only channels that you can declare gay is through your camp MO or counsellors/paracounsellors.

Camp MO will then refer you to SAF Counselling Centre for counselling. Your parents will definitely be notified too.

You will be treated as a psychiatric case, and you'll most probably be placed in non-combat units.

[Clickclock]

The only channels that you can declare gay is through your camp MO or counsellors/paracounsellors.

Camp MO will then refer you to SAF Counselling Centre for counselling. Your parents will definitely be notified too.

You will be treated as a psychiatric case, and you'll most probably be placed in non-combat units.

weird, i talked to ym counsellor in camp a week ago and he said that times have changed an its possible to not let your parents know.

[Guest Guest]

weird, i talked to ym counsellor in camp a week ago and he said that times have changed an its possible to not let your parents know.

They will notify your parents because they want your parents to be involved in the so-called "treatment" process.

Why declare gay when you are just fine?

[passby]

Well, I do admit that I do want to have a slack time in NS. Im pes B and im aware that i have a chance of being sent to combat unit that involves lots of running and shit. I prefer staying in one spot by myself as i appreciate being alone at times.

Anyway, do you have any proof or evidence that supports what you just said? im not really against ur statement, i just want to know the truth, i tried searching the web for some official statement on this, but to no anvail.

The truth is you go declare and find out what's next, then you tell us your first hand experience...

Based on what u said, you are more of trying to chao keng, and I wld safely tell you, you gonna missed alot of fun and meaning in national service.

I had one super shitty NS experience but looking back, who would expect myself to acheive so much... Been thru the prisoner of war training that drowned a NSF, nearly drowned a captain, in tekong. Went armed with 30 live rounds with body armour to hunt 3 armed Indonesian robbers who ended on tekong. Went to recce POI and the 5 tonner crashed into a mini bus, all passengers seriously hurt and we were thrown ard in the 5 ton. These are just some examples....

Take it with an open heart and mind to do ur NS, I believe u gain alot...somemore nowadays, its shorten plus super welfare....

[Guest Unclear]

Just wondering if declare as homosexual what is the difference between declare and never declare ?

[Blacque]

Just wondering if declare as homosexual what is the difference between declare and never declare ?

If you declare 302...

- Lower security clearance

- Unable to get into certain vocations/postings

- Chance of being a stay-out personnel

[PastryStudent18]

If you declare 302...

- Lower security clearance

- Unable to get into certain vocations/postings

- Chance of being a stay-out personnel

So means lighter job? And do 302 stays in a bunk with 302 or mix ?

[Guest alien]

Just wondering if declare as homosexual what is the difference between declare and never declare ?

Still wondering if u declare 302, how wld the MO test the person not bluffing?

[mango_juice]

Still wondering if u declare 302, how wld the MO test the person not bluffing?

Why would the MO wan to confirm this? It's so called a declaration means the candidate have to sign certain documents and it's a civil crime if there's any false info provided... It's up to the individual if they wan to declare and no confirmation is needed right? And I guess nowadays declared personnel are given almost same treatment as normal people.. They have to stay in with everyone and all..

[Blacque]

So means lighter job? And do 302 stays in a bunk with 302 or mix ?

Probably lighter job. Anyway SAF categorises homosexuals into 'feminine' and 'non-feminine'. The 'non-feminine' ones will be involved in more on-the-ground activites.

If you declare 302 in BMT, you'll stay together with the rest of the guys, no segregation.

[mamemo]

my time, there is this feminine gay guy, he did not declare because he wanted to let others know even gay guys are tough!

[Guest alien]

my time, there is this feminine gay guy, he did not declare because he wanted to let others know even gay guys are tough!

So this feimine gay guy survive all the tough training?

[mamemo]

So this feimine gay guy survive all the tough training?

we were storeman. He found his way to a clerk and proved to be efficient. but some homophobic people still try to make his life difficult. he always wins though as he has the gift of the gab and us to help him out. hes just damn bitchy and we all love that! he got through peacefully though. missed those day when we do duty he do all the sexy pose with the rifle in front of everyone.

[zcbm101]

I just finished NS too and I LOVE IT! WOOOTS!

Hahahaa, seriously, it's nothing to be afraid of. NS is just 2 years of your life spent chiong-ing with your platoon mates and doing sai kang. And in the process, you become good friends, build close bonds.

For those thinking of declaring, my advise is don't do it. You want to do it, your parents will find out. You will be placed in a non-sensitive unit where you get to go home everyday. But seriously, what's the point? You'll miss out on so many things! I know of many gay people who went through NS being themselves - not too masculine and no extremely feminine as well. And because they are confident and positive, people like them.

It's totally not true that every gay guy who goes to NS will have a hard time.

And someone asked if information about declaring homosexuality in NS can be found online? The answer is No. You can only find these info in the General Orders of MINDEF - usually via your chief clerk....Heheh, you'll have to provide some super good excuse as to why you seek that info. LOL.

[Guest initiald05]

It's just like when you're studying, you find studying the hardest thing to do ever. It's the same with NS. I wouldn't say it's the time of my life but definitely it's not too bad that I wanna go declare or somethin. 2 years is very fast.

[Guest annon]

Hey to those worrying. I was seriously worried sick with the NS checkup but in the end, there isnt anything to be worried about., honestly.

The pull down the pants check is just all of 5 seconds, so just clear your mind and not think of anything at all before the check, and when you pull your pants down, you wont get a boner! Also, you will most likely be half naked in the waiting room before the check and the air con is cold as hell. Just dont look at any guys when youre half naked or focus your attention to the less fit ones so you wont get aroused.

I read that some people were checked in groups? For me, it was individual even though there were A LOT of people waiting. so i guess it wont be in groups.

What im worried is during the BMT or whatever, when we'll be bathing openly. i would have to learn to hide my boner!

[Guest Guest]

Hey to those worrying. I was seriously worried sick with the NS checkup but in the end, there isnt anything to be worried about., honestly.

The pull down the pants check is just all of 5 seconds, so just clear your mind and not think of anything at all before the check, and when you pull your pants down, you wont get a boner! Also, you will most likely be half naked in the

waiting room before the check and the air con is cold as hell. Just dont look at any guys when youre half naked or focus your attention to the less fit ones so you wont get aroused.

I read that some people were checked in groups? For me, it was individual even though there were A LOT of people waiting. so i guess it wont be in groups.

What im worried is during the BMT or whatever, when we'll

be bathing openly. i would have to learn to hide my boner!

Don't worry, BMTC has all cubicles. Unless your admin time very short and despo to shower then maybe you share a cubicle with your buddy, otherwise got cubicles and no worries about boners. Usually you get to peek at others during outfield during powder baths/peeing but I doubt you'll be in the mood for those. Enjoy bmt!

[Guest Racer]

Thanks, but I'm wondering though, will bunkmates tease straight acting gays? (Those who had been exposed)

[Guest Evocation restores Mana]

Hey guys, i've just returned from camp and I figured out that I should post my genuine story of declaring to the SAF. I've realised that in this forum, there are lots of "speculations" about this matter of declaring to the SAF as most of the posts are either outdated(declared in the 1950s) or made through the amalgamation of rumours that people might have heard from some site.

Before I enlisted, i was really skeptical about declaring and stuff, I had alot of doubts to clarify, to make matters worse, all the contradicting comments here only made me even more skeptical. I figured out that the only way to know the truth is to declare 302 myself and hope for the best. Don't get me wrong, but the SAF has this thing about giving us wrong information. I can ask any spec in camp about any admin matters and they would always give me a different answer. The only way is to clarify it with the guys at the top cause they are the ones who convey instructions. Anyway, here's my story, its really recent so Im sure its reliable.

Like i said above, I was really skeptical before enlistement, hence i did not declare in CMPB, i was afraid that my parents will be notified about my condition. The MO at CMPB told me that my parents will be informed (misleading information =.=, you'll find out why), hence at that time, i decided to go through NS as a normal str8y guy and stuff, I got PES B. Only did the trainings at BMTC urged me to consider declaring as i've heard from forums that it will reduce my stress in NS. I brought up the issue to my OO (counscellor) and he did tell me that I would have to go thru BMTC as normal, but my vocation will be affected, in addition he told me that I could bargain with the psychiathrist whether or not to let my parents know. That was the most important part. Then after a week, i decided to declare, I told my OO and he wrote a letter to the MO at Tekong med centre. At the centre, the MO let me sign a yellow form n some other stuff and told me that my appointment might be in a week. A week passed and nothing, i went to the med centre and talked to the extremely inefficient medic clerks about my appointment, after waiting for like 40mins for a reply, they told me it was next month.

Turns out, the MO gaveme misleading info =.=", my appointment call finally came a whole month later, when i've POPed and posted to a COMBAT vocation with reference to my PES B status, as if i did not declared. During the sect comm interview, i highlighted my declaration and he brought me to my PC, whcih brought me to the OC and i told him all he needs to know. I told him that I really do not want my father to know about it(altho he has suspected it).It could have been even longer if not for my great OC in my new unit who called the CO to champion the psyciathric department. They told me the MO at Tekong shortchanged me..

Then i went to a medical board review(location not revealed), a group of high ranking chairmen asked me if I would like to declare and I said "yes", they told me that the SAF will post me in another vocation that would protect my orientation(in my opinion, its to protect their interests, of not having a cock sucker like me lurking around the camp)then he said ok and that was all, NO tests whatsoever and no parents involved.

In camp, i went to see the MO, got an OOC form and gave it to my OC. I went out of course for 2 weeks(stay out) and just today i got revocated to the same unit, but as an Armskote personnel, I'm having a stay out vocation.

here's my story

I WOULD LIKE TO STRESS THAT I AM NOT ENCOURAGING/DISCOURAGING PEOPLE TO DECLARE AND STUFF, IM JUST STATING MY EXPERIENCE.

[happy.99]

if you go thru it, just go thru it.

Thanks for sharing.

Edited August 3, 2011 by happy.99

[guest.seven]

I declared the same thing on the questionnaire they sent me in 2009. At cmpb medical the psychiatrist met me. I had ticked a box which said "do you have any financial / family / girlfriend problem / homosexuality".

His interview with me alone is represented in the dialogue below:

MO: what problem do you have?

Me: I don't think I have any problem.

MO: then why did you tick this box? (points at questionnaire)

Me: Singapore government seems to think being gay is a problem.

MO: mind if I ask a few questions (can tell he isn't homofriendly)

Me: you may ask but I may not feel compelled to answer.

MO: do you want to be a woman?

Me: no (visibly shocked but trying to keep it cool)

MO: do you feel like a woman trapped in a mans body?

Me: NO (losing the cool).

MO: do you feel uncomfortable around men?

Me: do you feel uncomfortable around WOMEN? (im incensed at this point!)

MO: this interview is not about me.

Me: why would I be sexually attracted to men if I'm uncomfortable with them?!

MO: how bout I just put you pes C, ok?

Me: (having no idea what he's talking about): fine. Do whatever you want.

In the end I was downgraded to C9L9 and posted to CD. I'm not queer or flamboyant but told all my platoon toward the end of my bmt. The fact that the other platoon had a complete femmebot probably helped by making me look good by comparison.

In the rest of ns, because I was so open about my sexuality (comes from being brought up elsewhere!) and answering all the silly questions people ask, I took it upon myself to outperform any straightboy in my department.

This resulted in nothing but praise from the rest of the NSF and officers. But they still crack jokes about it. Just something you gotta get used to (besides, you know when it's malicious and when it's benign - they make fun of fat people too, right).

The one thing this did affect was my ability to gain employment and I'm pretty sure a ministry turned me down last minute upon checking my ns record. I was really down at first (ESPECIALLY since I'd gone thru many rounds of interviews successfully!) but you get used to it. And it's sorta an employees Market right now.

Go figure

Me: you may ask anything you like

[lovehandle]

can u also share what makes u so uncomfortable about army that u really need to declare?

Hey guys,I WOULD LIKE TO STRESS THAT I AM NOT ENCOURAGING/DISCOURAGING PEOPLE TO DECLARE AND STUFF, IM JUST STATING MY EXPERIENCE.

[Guest jayy]

Then i went to a medical board review(location not revealed), a group of high ranking chairmen asked me if I would like to declare and I said "yes", they told me that the SAF will post me in another vocation that would protect my orientation(in my opinion, its to protect their interests, of not having a cock sucker like me lurking around the camp)then he said ok and that was all, NO tests whatsoever and no parents involved.

Wow, listening to this bullshit from those chairmen makes my blood boil. Just because we're gay doesn't mean we need our fxxking orientation to be "protected" (what the hell does that mean anyway?). And why the fxxk can't gay men serve combat vocations? SAF needs to move on with the times- the US has already done it.

[PaterTenebrarum]

I didnt declare and was actually disappointed when I got downgraded to PesC2L3 due to my poor eyesight (a thousand degrees per eye) and had dislocated my arm when I was in my mid teens.

I dunno. I just like getting down and dirty.

[Guest 69]

Those gay who wanted to act tough better don't declare. However if you are gay and think that training is too much of a strain, than declare. The choice is in the individual, there is no right or wrong answer. Another scenario when it is harmless to declare is when your whole family members already know your identity and all behind to support your decision to declare. They don't want their kids to suffer not just 2 year in NS but the whole of 13 years to complete ICT. That is a lot of strain there.

Me and my gay friend happened to be recruited on the same day in the same platoon. After a week or so during orientation, I wanted to declare but my gay friend pull me away from the CO office and gave me a "good lecture". He wanted his identity to be protected but for me I wanted to tell the truth and if I succeeded, we will be separated. He didn't want to see that happen. So selfish.

[Guest Guest]

I didnt declare and was actually disappointed when I got downgraded to PesC2L3 due to my poor eyesight (a thousand degrees per eye) and had dislocated my arm when I was in my mid teens.

I dunno. I just like getting down and dirty.

PaterTenebrarum, what vocation were you posted to? I also got that PES status. Going to enlist next year. Thanks.

[Guest Guest]

can i declare myself 302 now that im a NSman?

i heard u cannot get married once u declared or else they charged u for lying?

[Blacque]

You can't even register for marriage if you declared 302.

[Panadol]

Can't understand whats with the special treatment of guys declaring gay in army !!!

Its not as if we will go around haressing, sucking, fxxking people in the camp...Hello , gays are still human...we also have pride and dignity and respect for others.