Should I Declare I am Gay during NS ? + Advise for Declaring 302 (Compiled)

[qez]

I declared the same thing on the questionnaire they sent me in 2009. At cmpb medical the psychiatrist met me. I had ticked a box which said "do you have any financial / family / girlfriend problem / homosexuality".

His interview with me alone is represented in the dialogue below:

MO: what problem do you have?

Me: I don't think I have any problem.

MO: then why did you tick this box? (points at questionnaire)

Me: Singapore government seems to think being gay is a problem.

MO: mind if I ask a few questions (can tell he isn't homofriendly)

Me: you may ask but I may not feel compelled to answer.

MO: do you want to be a woman?

Me: no (visibly shocked but trying to keep it cool)

I think the MO wasn't clear about where he is coming from. He's checking your 302 'grade'. Different 'grades', different PES:

1. Masculine/straight-acting

2. Effeminate

3. Poorly-adjusted

4. Transsexual tendency

[briax]

I didnt declare and was actually disappointed when I got downgraded to PesC2L3 due to my poor eyesight (a thousand degrees per eye) and had dislocated my arm when I was in my mid teens.

I dunno. I just like getting down and dirty.

Unfortunately they seemed to think gay men cannot perform well in army. But in your case, blame your eyes hor.

[briax]

I think the MO wasn't clear about where he is coming from. He's checking your 302 'grade'. Different 'grades', different PES:

1. Masculine/straight-acting

2. Effeminate

3. Poorly-adjusted

4. Transsexual tendency

Actually, now that I read this entry, the question should be rephrased to "do you have problem with your sexuality". I think we all assume that gay people have issues with their homosexuality. What if a straight person has issues with his heterosexuality?

[happy.99]

if you dun want to go thru all that harassment in the future, then you have to ask yourself y do u need to declare? because you cannot take hardship? because you cannot be with other guys in the army?

[Guest So Troublesome]

Actually, I do not understand why SAF has to go thru such bureaucracy to question and identify whether the guy is gay. If they want to know whether I am truly gay or not is very simple. Just get the handsome CO or MO to strip naked and see whether I got erection. Better still, get the medic to make love with me and see whether I moan the loudest and has his dick sucked dry....all these are simple and easy test.

I remember when I was in CMPB where newbie has to go thru medical test and check your dick. Everyone stood in a row and stripped simultaneously, I had a hard on looking at those dicks and the medic should have spotted I am gay. That could be another telling sign that this guy should be classified as 302.

[tylergoogle]

i think you should listen to someone who has declared 302 before.

i have. and i regretted NOT doing so EARLIER!!!

however, i am not sure now if it is still worth it, but if you wanna declare, pls do so before BMT!!!

and also, they do not discriminate you, cos after i declare, i could still teach in school, go uni, etc..., and also apparently, other govt dept dunno...

in my opinion, it was the best thing i have ever done, cos i have NO RESERVIST!!! hahahahahaha

i just find it a little offensive that after you have declared 302, you're exempted from ns. it's like saying that plu is a lesser person. that's just offensive. and guys, it's really sad that you're using being gay to opt out ns. man up and just go through with it.

[minejastr0]

i just find it a little offensive that after you have declared 302, you're exempted from ns. it's like saying that plu is a lesser person. that's just offensive. and guys, it's really sad that you're using being gay to opt out ns. man up and just go through with it.

Not true. Even u have declared 302, u still have to serve NS. Only theres no reservist.

[Clickclock]

I would really want to know if I would still have to serve reservist as a 302 personnel, the MO told me that I will still have to serve, but he did mention that as a MO, he does not know the entire statement for 302 people, its a rather restricted issue to him.

is there really no reservist???

[descca]

Reservist is as normal as far as i know. 302 seems to affect less things these days n only those super femaline ones get posted to clerks which generally don't do reservist

[alien]

I always think it is no need to declare 302 even u r gay, unless u are femaline type of gay, then maybe can consider to declare. If not dun ever declare, cos i think going thru ns is something tht u shld not missed.

[keyboard]

My gut feeling is that by declaring 302, the army will need to protect you from the harassment from others. Think gang rape. Should this happen, the repercussion will be wide.

[Guest Guest]

We are not living in the Victorian Age, I see nothing wrong in being honest about our sexuality. Why should one have to hide? Those who imply that those who declare are weak or foolish are just ashamed of their own sexual identity. If u are gay, you will always be gay, no matter how u may want to pretend that u are not.

[Foreign Talent]

By declaring 302, it's like a mark in your life. Its a government record for your whole life. Come on, why do you wanna get identified and marked? It works the same as a criminal record. I dun think you will be able to work in the civil service. You might say no big deal, you are not going to work for the government. But who knows? You still have many decades to go. Even big MNCs or big private companies will check your record with the government. Why get yourself into all these?

The quote above is untrue.

1. Gays who have declared 302 can work in the civil service.

2. MNCs and other private companies honestly don't give a shit what you did in NS, they're far more interested in your training, your work experience and what you can bring to the table when you work for them.

Oh please lah. This is why I am so fed up with BW. All these people who have half-truths based on hearsay and guess work coming here and posting it as if it was true.

Please lah. If you are not sure about something, then don't come here posting as if you know it's true. Stop confusing other people when you are already confused and don't have the right information.

1.

[Foreign Talent]

You can't even register for marriage if you declared 302.

Yeah but if you're a homosexual - what the hell are you doing thinking about marrying a woman?!?!?!

You guys wanna talk about gay rights - well I wanna talk about women's rights. I think a woman has got the right to know if her future husband has been honest with her about his past and if he is gay, she deserves to know!

[EasleyLim]

It's the govn't that i despise. By declaring 302 officially, you're closing off so many opportunity like OCS and SCS. If i really want to serve my country, i want a logical explanation as to how being gay means i can't serve in the same capacity as a straight man could. That kind of archaic thinking is just rubbish lah.

[Guest jayy]

It's the govn't that i despise. By declaring 302 officially, you're closing off so many opportunity like OCS and SCS. If i really want to serve my country, i want a logical explanation as to how being gay means i can't serve in the same capacity as a straight man could. That kind of archaic thinking is just rubbish lah.

Yes, I agree. Marginalization of people (in terms of vocations, at least) who have declared is just utter bullshit. It's time for Singapore to move with the times. Even America has repealed don't ask don't tell.

Edited November 13, 2011 by jayy

[lightson]

My opinion is, do what you truly want.

you can never guess what outcome you will really get.

it could be a backlash but it could also be an outpour of support for you (depending on where you go to).

there are people who know about me in the service but yet i've received nothing but support.

and there were also people who have nothing but abusive remarks.

its not about who you are, its about who you meet.

just be ready for whatever that comes your way, and tackle it as you go along.

no point fretting over possible consequences.

just my take.

[bodybuildMLY]

The quote above is untrue. 1. Gays who have declared 302 can work in the civil service. 2. MNCs and other private companies honestly don't give a shit what you did in NS, they're far more interested in your training, your work experience and what you can bring to the table when you work for them. Oh please lah. This is why I am so fed up with BW. All these people who have half-truths based on hearsay and guess work coming here and posting it as if it was true. Please lah. If you are not sure about something, then don't come here posting as if you know it's true. Stop confusing other people when you are already confused and don't have the right information. 1.

That is true you can still work in civil service, but your career path will be affected along the way, definitely. SM Goh did mentioned in 2002 that the government still accepts gay, but "still follow the mainstream". MNCs and private sectors have no issue on this, and I agree with this.

Nonetheless, there is no need to declare 302 in the army. To me, being a homosexual is exactly the same as being a heterosexual. You can be physically fit, tough, play soccer, etc. except that you prefer man over woman. So what's the big issue about 302? The purpose of the declaration is for those who REALLY have issues integrating into the rest of the army guys e.g. too effeminate behavior, cannot live without putting on make-up, etc. Anyway, if you declare 302, you are considered to be a misfit and somehow, news tends to spread from the manpower branch all the way to the company line. So, its not really worth it unless you really have issues that I have mentioned.

[alien]

Nonetheless, there is no need to declare 302 in the army. To me, being a homosexual is exactly the same as being a heterosexual. You can be physically fit, tough, play soccer, etc. except that you prefer man over woman. So what's the big issue about 302? The purpose of the declaration is for those who REALLY have issues integrating into the rest of the army guys e.g. too effeminate behavior, cannot live without putting on make-up, etc. Anyway, if you declare 302, you are considered to be a misfit and somehow, news tends to spread from the manpower branch all the way to the company line. So, its not really worth it unless you really have issues that I have mentioned.

True, being homosexual is exactly the same as being a heterosexual. I dun find any difference or special in a homosexual, he also can be fit and tough and also perform as gd as a heterosexual in many aspects, except on thing not the same is homosexual prefer man over woman.

[Guest Curious Guest]

Dear all, could anyone enlighten whether if Ns man that declared 3o2 can be exempted from ippt and reservist?

[gstc82]

well, if gays are exempted from ippt and reservist, its pure discrimination! please do not declare just becos you wanna escape ippt and reservist! what gays can do, we can do the same or better than str8!

[Guest Curious Guest]

well, if gays are exempted from ippt and reservist, its pure discrimination! please do not declare just becos you wanna escape ippt and reservist!

I heard this from my aj friends and they do declare and they do not need to serve the 2. That's y I need more verifications to see the probability of being exempted or to serve.

[Tachyons]

Good luck to your future career path when your employers ask about your NS in your resume

[descca]

I heard this from my aj friends and they do declare and they do not need to serve the 2. That's y I need more verifications to see the probability of being exempted or to serve.

Does being gay mean u can't run etc? What made u think it would get u an exemption when ippt esp is a physical thing

[Clickclock]

what ever it is, its all up to the individual to decide, you shouldnt go around saying, "oh you shouldnt declare, just do what str8 ppl do.. bla bla bla", it isnt you to dictate what others should choose.

[keyboard]

Usually those who are with the vocation of clerk are put into Holding List after they ORD, so they don't get IPPT or reservists. I'm not sure if it applies to 302 who are non-clerks though. Call up MINDEF and ask and let everyone here knows.

*added*

keyword here is Holding List, which means non-active NSmen. Holiding List applies to those who defer for Tertiary studies also. You don't see those guys doing IPPT during that period.

Edited December 31, 2011 by keyboard

[Guest Nsmen]

Ippt is a requirement whether u r serving ur ns or u r a nsmen. Unless u r medically downgraded, else whether you r clerk, 302 or whatever shit, u still have to go take ur ippt.

For guys serving ur ns, ur unit will arrange u for ippt.

For nsmen, pls book urself via ns.sg. Is a chargable offence if u did not book and attend ur ippt. Result pass fail not important as long as u attend. Failed, go book ur RT. Again if u failed and no book and attend RT, chargeable offence.

If I remember correctly, there are 2 types of management for personnel declare as 302. Those medically fit and unfit. No all 302 will be posted as clerk. Some store man and other vocation too. If you want to know more, u can take a look at the GOM. Can't remember whether is it available via the intranet in ur unit. But ur manpower / S1 branch should have the physical GOM.

[idontknow]

Forgive me if this is in the wrong forum. I don't know what tags to add too(new here).

I posted this in sgforums as well, but I figured I'd be able to get a more comprehensive answer here.

Copy-pasta-ed:

"Here's a brief summary of my story: I wrote down homosexuality in my Medical Questionnaire and submitted it. During my medical check-up, I didn't voice out 'Hey, I'm a homo' because I assumed they would see it and send me for psychiatric tests to ascertain my sexuality(as I read they would). They sent me for tests alright, but they were all for other health related problems which I won't specify here.

I sneaked a peek at the photocopy of the MQ(medical questionnaire) they had and noticed ticks besides the other health problems that I declared, but the part which had 'homosexuality' written in it was conspicuously left unticked.

I was just wondering if they actually saw it, because I wasn't sent for any tests or verification whatsoever regarding my sexuality. Unless countless threads and blogs have lied to me and there aren't any to begin with.

I haven't received my enlistment letter yet, so should I call them to verify? I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could answer my question/explain my situation, thanks!"

Please don't leave comments questioning my decision or telling me that I'd regret it. That is not the point. This was a very difficult decision for me to make and I have put more than enough thought into it(about 2 years worth).

[EasleyLim]

Sure, go call them ask them if they've seen the part where you noted your preference for sucking dicks. Not sure how that would change your NS journey but meh.

[Guest Guest from Tpy]

To my dear "I don't know"

You are young and starting out into society thus you may be innoncent to many "bumps" on the road ahead.

Having read your postings, I conclude that you have accepted yourself as a gayman, which society refers to.

This is very galant of you and you should go far, not denying factors of your inborn lifestyle.

However, there are certain pit-holes in life that we should stay clear off. While majority of society trusts and accepts a sincere personality, you ought to understand that Singapore is not quite right for "coming out" for people like us, particularly in organisations like the armed forces or other goverment offices.

For this particular instant, I would wait to see what unfolds from your revealation on your recuitment form. And for all future endearvours, do not cross the bridge till you are in front of it.

May you stay sincere to all your friends and have a good constructive life!

[descca]

Generally if you declared gay, you will be required to sign some form of contract or document which is the actual 302 itself. If you are below 21, your parents will need to be there as well since you can't sign anything below 21.

Generally you should be given a PES D while this is pending so if you have already gotten another perm PES status, likely that they might have missed out the declaration.

[XmasMint]

Were you given your pes or do you have any medical problems that are pending after the medical check up? If your pes is confirmed, then you just have to wait patiently for your enlistment letter. If not, you won't be getting your enlistment letter. You can try calling them to ask about when you will be enlisting though.

[idontknow]

Thank you for the replies, everybody.

I was already given a PES assignment, so I highly suspect they either missed out on my declaration or they simply don't care. I'm leaning more towards the former since no acknowledgement of it was given. I won't know for sure until I check with CMPB.

As for guest from TPY, thank you for your advice. It is true that I'm young and quite innocent of the crap that life can throw at us. Maybe it is naïveté or youth speaking, but I firmly believe that things eventually turn out for the best. It's probably baseless optimism, I know. At any rate, the fact remains that I have written down homosexuality in my questionnaire, and any 'bo liao' staff can take a look at it and spread the word. They say your medical record is strictly confidential, but we all know how fast gossip travels on the grapevine. There is little point in shoving myself back into the closet and un-crossing that bridge; I'm already at the other side. All there is left to do is hope I don't die from excessive bullying.

[TheAntisen]

Look at this way, 2 years of living with a bunch of hot guys isn't an opportunity you should throw away

[b0ynsf19]

Guys. I just finished my 2yr ns like month ago. And I'm wondering if I still can declare 302 ? Cos I don't really wanna go reservist though.

[Guest]

Yeah but if you're a homosexual - what the hell are you doing thinking about marrying a woman?!?!?!

I totally agree with you, man. My friends keep telling me that i can't marry if i declare, and i was like "unless it's gay marriage (which is nonexistent in s'pore? WHY THE HELL WOULD I GET MARRIED?!"

lol

[Guest Guest]

The way 302 works is this: they classify you as whether you look like your own gender, or whether you dont (crossdresser, pre-op etc) first. latter is pretty obvious what kinda PES you'll get la.

but for the former it's further split into whether you are effeminate or not in terms of behavior, and if you belong to the latter, you will actually have an NS life exactly the same as any other guys, combat fit or not.

so even if you declared if you belong in the look-like-a-guy and has no effeminate behavior your NS will still be the normal one.

[retri]

i declared 302.went through BMT. then course. then S4 clerk. Then after I ORD, they NEVER called me back. I ORD'd in 2003 June. Do the math how long it's been - 9 years.

[alien]

The way 302 works is this: they classify you as whether you look like your own gender, or whether you dont (crossdresser, pre-op etc) first. latter is pretty obvious what kinda PES you'll get la.

but for the former it's further split into whether you are effeminate or not in terms of behavior, and if you belong to the latter, you will actually have an NS life exactly the same as any other guys, combat fit or not.

so even if you declared if you belong in the look-like-a-guy and has no effeminate behavior your NS will still be the normal one.

If u look like a normal guy and has no effeminate behaviour, no need to declare 302 lah. Just enjoy and endure the 2 yrs.

Anyway, whether u got called back for reservist mostly depends on ur vocation and appointment in ns. Not really 100% means if u declare 302 means u have no reservist. I have friends who is str8 also didnt called back for reservist, cos of his vocation.

[Guest GucciBoy]

i declared right after i posted to my vocations and they send me to mmi and i was down pes-ed to C9L9, now i am doing Clerk Work, and everyone in my unit cares about me i so happy that i am a open-mined aj.. haha, all my campmates know i am aj, whats the big deal to declare? i am open!

[alien]

If u r open abt ur sexuality, then no prob declare 302. But if u r not, no point declare just becos u dun want to go thru army.

[LoveAtFirstSight]

I have a few questions regarding NS...

1. If you declare homosexuality, will they tell your parents? Is it neccessary for me to declare if I'm afraid of what I need to do during NS? I'm like VERY skinny, lower BMI than girls in class and such?

2. Will they ask you openly about your homosexuality especially during the check-ups? (I'm going with my straight friends who doesn't know I'm gay/bi)

Basically filling up for the pre-enlistment thing and check-up. I'm kind of stuck under social history... like "attempted sucide", I haven't but thought of it since I was primary 6, relationship problems like... few friends, very hard to work with people etc?

Edited July 23, 2012 by LoveAtFirstSight

[Guest stbrianud]

man don't ask don't tell. as cliche as it may sound just do it.. once you are inside. find NS gay guys in your unit and just go fck around with them full stop.

[GachiMuchi]

I have a few questions regarding NS...

1. If you declare homosexuality, will they tell your parents? Is it neccessary for me to declare if I'm afraid of what I need to do during NS? I'm like VERY skinny, lower BMI than girls in class and such?

2. Will they ask you openly about your homosexuality especially during the check-ups? (I'm going with my straight friends who doesn't know I'm gay/bi)

Basically filling up for the pre-enlistment thing and check-up. I'm kind of stuck under social history... like "attempted sucide", I haven't but thought of it since I was primary 6, relationship problems like... few friends, very hard to work with people etc?

Reading your past posting, I am very sure you have serious issues.

1. Low self-esteem, http://www.blowingwi...=50#entry447129

2. Your Gay Identity

3. Crush with a guy at first sight. http://www.blowingwi...69

You seriously need to talk to a counselor. (http://www.oogachaga.com/services) I suggest you call the Oogachaga hotline (6224 9373) and speak to someone. You certainly are carrying with you too much emotional baggage.

We are not professional counselors, what you need is REAL help from Professionals.

Edited July 23, 2012 by GachiMuchi

[Guest Guest]

I am an army specialist serving NS. Issit still possible for me to declare 302? If so, where and how do I do so? I am really tired of outfields and the thought of leading monointake mens really stress me out.

[Simmon]

If you are really 302, you can declare if you want to. But take note of the aftermath.

[SeannyShortcake]

It's possible.

But how long more do you have to go before ORD-ing?

I declared.

So feel free to pop any questions my way.

But seriously,you ought not.

[Guest Guest]

Around 1 year and 2 months till I ORD. I am an infantry leader as of now. Will I get excused outfield out non combat PES if I declare?

[NielKlient]

You can declard anytime you want. i declard when i was 6 months away from ORD.

most probably they would down pes you to pes C.

[Guest arowana]

post deleted 

Edited October 25, 2013 by arowana