Should I Declare I am Gay during NS ? + Advise for Declaring 302 (Compiled)

[Guest stbrianud]

What is 302?

[Guest Guest]

So I can just go to my camp's MO and request to declare? Will my rank affect my down pes? (Since I pass out from infantry pro term section commander course)

[omgwthwtf]

.

Edited July 18, 2020 by omgwthwtf

[rhonl]

wouldnt advise you to declare man its too much trouble. imagine your csm/pc/specs finding out about it etc. just grit through and experience it. taking monointake men has been very rewarding personally

[Simmon]

Bullshit. Don't scare him. Declare really no big deal.

You got balls! Good!

You got balls too! Good!

Definitely excused! 99.9% confirm.

If you delare, nobody knows. It will not reflect in any system. Top secret agent and ISA do not even know.

Come on, so MANY people declared 302! 302 life damn "enng", time so easy to pass. Now, is 2012 not like last time, in the 60s!

Abit too offensive. Decided to change content.

Please ask before you shoot. I declared too and ask any of those who declared, aftermath does not have to be government or organisational aftermath. It's your friends who find out. You tell your commander etc and this kind of shit has a way of getting out. My camp medical team actually revealed it to a guy who spread around so that's the gist of it. Futhermore, you will have job restrictions because IT WILL BE IN THE SYSTEM. You will have certain job limitations that I do not wish to disclose here.

I was not excused from field camp. I was merely sent back to the bunk every night and sent back to field camp to take part in the activities. When it was time for bed, I was taken back to sleep alone in the bunk.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Simmon

[zwei]

Declare or not up to you but your reason sucks don't throw our face here!

And also once declared you cannot get married if you suddenly change to liking girls I believe

Edited September 26, 2012 by zwei

[zwei]

What is 302?

It's a section in the directive meaning you're homosexual that's all

[gstc82]

I wish saf will wipe out 302 for good. Why must those who declare. 302 be given "lighter" duties? Are we gays "weaker" than str8s? Are we less capable in the field? R we less of a man? Gays can be commandos or guardsmen, we gays are not only suitable to be clerks.

[zwei]

There are muay that gays and am sure their training are like 3000% harder than the army's

[freakrig]

I am an army specialist serving NS. Issit still possible for me to declare 302? If so, where and how do I do so? I am really tired of outfields and the thought of leading monointake mens really stress me out.

its time to pay the price of WAYANG during your bmt

[zwei]

Specs wayang? We have character yo

[Clickclock]

Hi there, I did declare during my BMT, but the real medical board review took place 1.5 months after I was posted to a unit.

If you declare during CMPB, you would most likely be down pes to and you have to serve 2 years. As for my case, I entered in the enhanced batch pes b, hence my clock started ticking at 1 year 10 months, in which i am glad that i declared during BMT instead of before.

Anyways, whether or not the MO will down pes you is entirely up to the MO or medical personnel in the army, you can't really decide. I have friends who declared who are pes C and people like me who remain Pes B. One of the major perks that you'll get if you declare is that you will be posted to a more "lighter" unit, like a medical centre, cook house or storeman, where its not really stressful and tasking.

From what I see, everyone in this thread is indirectly referring to declaring as taking the coward's way out to siam the bullshit and stress of a garang soldier. Just screw them. Declaring has its perks and the consequences as negligible. The only bad part is that people might gossip about you, but that's just nothing, the youths are getting more liberal, gay people are not so discriminated and treated differently as before. I'm more or less openly gay to my office friends and they treat me as an equal, as a matter a fact, they are happy in knowing that I am proud and happy for who I am and not somebody who hides himself to suit what others want from him.

I've never regretted declaring to put it short, if I did not make that move, I would be cleaning some boat right now, and instead, I'm a storeman with a cohesion happening on friday, I have tons of free time and it's much less stressful.

Think about this, being gay might be a bad thing... that the media is wrongly displaying, but it can be seen as a life privillege, I mean, you have the orientation, you have the privillege and you have the opportunity to declare, why not?

Anyway, its confidential, not even my new warrant knows about my status.

gossip is NOTHING, just be proud of who you are.

anyways, regarding the marriage part, I spoke to the medical officer directly, saying, what about the 35 years married rule thing that I heard on the forums? The MO laughed and told me that they are not so mean to monitor you constantly, its a thing of the past.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Clickclock

[Clickclock]

I wish saf will wipe out 302 for good. Why must those who declare. 302 be given "lighter" duties? Are we gays "weaker" than str8s? Are we less capable in the field? R we less of a man? Gays can be commandos or guardsmen, we gays are not only suitable to be clerks.

But you need to know one thing, even if you're openly gay and people know that you are gay its still alright for you to NOT declare and prove to your superiors that you are as capable, strong and efficient like what you just described. Its not a big deal! times have changed.

you describing this 302 status as if, there is a Gay-detector in all camps that forces the 302 status to us. That we are being forced to be a clerk. Mind you, 302 is optional, its up to you whether you want to declare or not.

on the other hand!!! this is a great boon to people who can't handle the stress, i mean, straight people who are very pressured and need a desperate plea for lighter duties a.k.a. chao keng are really jealous that we gay people actually, have this "privillege". Not many people share the same idea as you, as a matter a fact, 90% of NSFs do not want to serve in the very first place, this is a boon.

I think that the system is fine and moving smoothly, I don't see any down sides to it, I meant, cmon, what kind of downsides can an optional declaration give?

Edited September 26, 2012 by Clickclock

[fab]

Declare or not up to you but your reason sucks don't throw our face here!

And also once declared you cannot get married if you suddenly change to liking girls I believe

LOL.

Your worry is so cute.

[cvbv1987]

hey mate,

i know things get tough in the army and you just passed out as a spec recently. New environment, new job scope, new responsibilities....

I know totally how you feel but I just want to encourage you to press on further and encourage yourself to go on. Find someone you can trust and talk to that person. Share your struggles. Don't keep it yourself.

If all of us homosexuals would think this way, then we will all labelled as cowards who cant do what 'real' men can do. We are men as well. NS is a time where you learn a lot yourself and being a spec, you have a great ability to leave your tracks behind. There were so many times i thought of this option but I am glad I didn't. Towards the end of my service, my camp colleagues found out about my sexuality and mentioned not a word about it and we became even closer than ever.

Life is tough and NS sometimes makes it worst, but remember, when the going gets tough, the tough gets going. The country needs men, GAY MEN like us. So, go do your best. Make history for yourself. I am very sure that one day when you flip through the pages of your life, you will be glad that you didn't declare.

I m not forcing you but this is just an encouragement from an ex spec. Take care mate. drop me a PM if you need anyone to chat with

[raind]

http://raindance66.blogspot.sg/2012/02/declaring-302.html

some thoughts from an ex-regular...

Edited May 28, 2015 by raind

[xenophile]

This is what i've observed the last few years:

Reasons for declaring:

1) Bullied by camp mates. Thats basically the biggest reason why 302 still has relevance. There had been instances in the past where those effeminate but didnt declare were actually sexually abused. THose cases are rare now (mainly because, well, seeing certain threads, some guys enjoy it.) There are still cases of physical/verbal abuse going on in camps.

2) Super duper uncomfortable being in an all-male environment. Adaptive issues with communal living.

3) The extreme ones, gender identity issues.

Sadly, homosexuality is categorized under mental disorders. The practice now, though, is to identify issues related to homosexuals serving in an all male environment. 302 isnt meant to denigrate or discriminate. Its taken, more or less, as an option (it isnt really. look at the questionnaire). Several reasons why 302 is still needed.

The reason TS gives don't usually hold water. But 302 is still needed, not because the view is that we are weak (on the contrary, i know certain best soldiers, best runners, best shots, coy fittest, sword of honors, sword of merits and so on and so forth who are gay) but because it is meant to help those who declare. Yes there are consequences. Usually unspoken. But here are the reasons why its still in place:

1) Because, duh, protects the individual from being bullied

2) Assists in his adaptive issues

3) Security. 302s are usually placed in roles with lesser capacity because, well if you are someone of rank, the understanding is that your sexuality can be used to compromise your duty, and can cause embarrassment to the organization. Like being a bankrupt.

4) Corruptible. Maybe you guys dont see the link, but just imagine. Day in day out with men. hot sexy hunky men. A little under the table action for rank upgrades? A little close door session for off? A little somethin somethin extra to escape extras? its the in thing nowadays. The most talked about topic. CPIB is damn busy.

My advice for the TS is: Declare if it does truly make you uncomfortable. There are those of certain ranks (the bar kind) who had declared much later. Just dun go around telling the MO that you wanna declare cos u cant take the outfield. Adaptive issues maybe. Cant take the challenge of command. Feel no moral high ground to be on top of men cos you've always been bottom. If u just say u are bored, sick and tired of outfield... the MO can't do shit. Many people are bored sick and tired of outfield. what makes you stand out? Other people even have legit medical reasons, not just cos after the weekend, they suffer incontinence.

[XiaoMessy]

What is 302?

LOL Blonde!

[lovehandle]

what will be next upon a declaration? just very curious! will they "test" u or subject u to anything???\

Is it that xiong to be in the army? goodness, i went through mine with no issues - too tired inside camp to think of anything, so i m just as normal like the rest of the boyzzzz

and why are u still worrying about whether you get to "keep" your rank?

[trevorcantona]

Abit too offensive. Decided to change content.

Please ask before you shoot. I declared too and ask any of those who declared, aftermath does not have to be government or organisational aftermath. It's your friends who find out. You tell your commander etc and this kind of shit has a way of getting out. My camp medical team actually revealed it to a guy who spread around so that's the gist of it. Futhermore, you will have job restrictions because IT WILL BE IN THE SYSTEM. You will have certain job limitations that I do not wish to disclose here.

I was not excused from field camp. I was merely sent back to the bunk every night and sent back to field camp to take part in the activities. When it was time for bed, I was taken back to sleep alone in the bunk.

job restrictions? in army or in real life? pray tell anyway!

who cares if other ppl know in camp anyway?

[EasleyLim]

If you're not ready to lead men, why declare your interest for command school lol?

[Wilbur]

My friend who declared didn't manage to get a stay out posting or "relax" life after.

He was still doing chiong sua stuff, just that he doesn't have to sleep with the rest of his bunk mates and stuff. Being gay doesn't mean you can't be a leader, can't fight in a war or can't do outfield. You just like guys and thats about it.

If you want a more relax army life, I suggest you find channels to down-pes.

[zwei]

Exactly as what above said just down pes like every mofos out there =)

[joshboy]

why do u want do declare in the first place?

You can always tell everyone but not formally declare, unless you want a "less siong" vocation.. but yes, its the coward's way out

[Guest ongwsjackson]

There's not a lot of administrative specialist vocations. You'll most probably be doing the same shit.

It's always a better idea to declare during/before BMT.

But yes, your docket will be tagged and your boss will know. He is, however, obliged to keep it to himself.

Edited October 30, 2016 by jacksonongws

[Guest Reservist Question]

Does anyone know how to excuse oneself from reservist? I'm sort of like sick and tired of that...

[moodoo]

You survived pro term... only Brunei could be worse.... c'mon my fellow sergeant!!!

[xenophile]

Does anyone know how to excuse oneself from reservist? I'm sort of like sick and tired of that...

ya... earn more than 10k a month. U'll be excused immediately.

[Guest Guideline changes]

you should know that they have changed the guideline for pes status definition now but they didnt let us know, i think only medical officers and those who bother and are able to xs the info knew about it. I'm guessing they made the changes because they are trying to make full use of whatever guys there's left in SG for ns..

Now even though u are p3s C and L9, the definition states that they are still be able to bear arms to 'protect' themselves in the field unless u r excuse firearms, i think pes E have some updates too to make full use of those in this category.

Lots of grey area in the definition of the current new guideline. Don't think declaring will be able to get u into Pes C anymore, even if u get pes C, they will still make u go to outfields to make full use of resource they can suck out from.

My advise, secretly get a trustworthy person who have xs to the info to check it out for u first before making any harsh moves (make friend with ppl from S1 br to make ur life in there easier), declaring is not gng to be secretive, those handling ur info bklet is also an nsf as well, except that his rank is LT, who most likely will leak your secret out, heard of leakage info before.

[Simmon]

job restrictions? in army or in real life? pray tell anyway!

who cares if other ppl know in camp anyway?

Well, basically you can't serve in the army as a regular even if you so wish. And your job cannot be in relation to national security. You'll have to go check up on what jobs. I don't really remember.

[Guest JUSTrand]

... 302 again.

Just pray that you're not a clerk after u declare.

Er. Maybe you might like luh.

Just want to say, if I got the chance to up pes back to my previous pes, I will definitely go back and chiong sua.

Sometimes clerk work is not as easy as what other idiots think. If you're lucky you'll be a storeman. Storeman is easy. Haiss. Chiong sua is easy too, just sweat and exercise.

By the way clerk also got HLS day for us to sweat.

[Guest ongwsjackson]

False.

Edited January 1, 2016 by jacksonongws

[Guest False statement = failed]

False.

agreed that its false. I know of a director friend who definitely earns more than 10k and is also call up for reservist often.

[Guest Ironrod]

Sorry, can I ask those whom declare....will they make u see a shrink first and interview your parents?

So far nobody seems to tell me if family will know if u declare.

[Guest KPO]

SAF normally take a more serious view for those who are regular and holding senior positions.As someone has already pointed to the blogsite, you can read for yourself.

For NSF, whether you are downgraded depends on how "manly" on the gay spectrum that SAFassess you to be. Eg. Bi/pure top vs pure btm/crossdresser etc. If you are classified to be at the "manly" end, then you'll not get downgraded much. If youare classified more towards the "female" end, then if you get married within a certain period after ORD, you can be charged for false declaration.

Someone has done the great job of compiling his whole NSF 302 declaration experience/rights/liabilities for the benefit for all.

Part 1 : http://www.yawningbr...002/guw-080.htm

Part 2 : http://www.yawningbr...002/guw-081.htm

It's answer all your question and clear all the myth/rumours.

[forte_sg]

I wish saf will wipe out 302 for good. Why must those who declare. 302 be given "lighter" duties? Are we gays "weaker" than str8s? Are we less capable in the field? R we less of a man? Gays can be commandos or guardsmen, we gays are not only suitable to be clerks.

Well said ! It's crap to have discrimination against Gays ... not weaker than straights but more successful i feel !

[joshboy]

why must u declare in the first placee??

aniway if u declare u sure tio OOC first

[xenophile]

False.

really? damn. I had been told before by my bosses/friends. I was also told that for KAH there isnt an option, though you have an option to serve if you earn above the amount.

[EasleyLim]

Well said ! It's crap to have discrimination against Gays ... not weaker than straights but more successful i feel !

The logic behind why the army FEARS having homosexuals in their ranks is because they feel that we are more vulnerable to being blackmailed by enemy forces, which is ridiculous of course. As if straight people can't be blackmailed for affairs and such, just look at the SCDF corruption case! SAF really needs to review their millenia old security processes, lol.

Anyway, back to your line of thought, I don't think gays are weaker or better than straight people at NS. After all, NS is a patriotic thing and not dependent on sexual orientation. Leaders can be gay or straight, and in times of war as long as my buddy can kill the enemy, I couldn't care less if he likes pussies or dicks.

Edited September 27, 2012 by EasleyLim

[Guest Guest]

The logic behind why the army FEARS having homosexuals in their ranks is because they feel that we are more vulnerable to being blackmailed by enemy forces, which if ridiculous of course. As if straight people can't be blackmailed for affairs and such, just look at the SCDF corruption case! SAF really needs to review their security processes, lol.

Well said EasyLim!! :clap: :clap:

[xenophile]

actually it is a little more than that. we have our 377a to blame for 302. Essentially, they know that we take it up the ass, and that its illegal. That knowledge can be use as blackmail. And that would, at its best, tarnish the image and mar the credibility of the SAF, and at its worst, provide an avenue for certain people to make certain people do certain things that can compromise national security, both of which had happened in recent years albeit of a different context. As I mentioned before, especially with people of certain ranks, declaring 302 is similar to declaring financial embarrassment. They wanna know that it wont compromise your responsibility. And yes, it has been shown that straight people are corruptible.

302 is the most known tool they use to safeguard security, but there are plenty of other processes that are already in place that are not as controversial or scandalous as 302.

All these is really none of the TS' concern. NSF specialist? Too small fry for anything much.

Edited September 27, 2012 by xenophile

[EasleyLim]

Because everyone knows that if you're gay, you can't be a citizen first and homosexual second right?

Silly straight people.

[gstc82]

Why is there a need for 302 when we want 377a to be erased? So please dO not use 302 to get an "easier" life in army as you are Indirectly "supporting" 377a. gays can do the same job as str8.

[xenophile]

Why is there a need for 302 when we want 377a to be erased? So please dO not use 302 to get an "easier" life in army as you are Indirectly "supporting" 377a. gays can do the same job as str8.

Why is there a need for 302 when we want 377a to be erased? So please dO not use 302 to get an "easier" life in army as you are Indirectly "supporting" 377a. gays can do the same job as str8.

I can agree on this. 302 will have no more grounds if 377a is repealed. Go use some other numbers in the book if you need to ck.

[Guest arowana]

Abit too offensive. Decided to change content.

Please do not get upset. Forgive me.

Sorry, didn't know you can't take the word "bullshit".

[wahwahboi]

I am an army specialist serving NS. Issit still possible for me to declare 302? If so, where and how do I do so? I am really tired of outfields and the thought of leading monointake mens really stress me out.

Hey TS! Don't be discouraged by your thoughts! Sometimes it will turn out to be not what you expected!

Basically I am also a 302 personnel, but my story is a bit different. I declared when I was posted to a mono-intake combat unit after BMT and subsequently was posted to a training institute and revocated as a clerk. I was eventually promoted to a 3SG as an admin supervisor and the job scope was really wide and there is really a lot to handle. Not only that, I went for overseas training and outfield during my two years of service, 6 weeks each year, and sometimes it is really tiring. So my point here is even if you declared 302, it doesn't mean that you won't go outfield or there won't be any stress present. Also as what a lot had said, you may be subjected to discrimination if your declaration spreads around the camp and thus you'll need to be mentally prepared for that.

Lastly, I would like to say, no matter if you choose to declare or not, just take every event as a learning experience (which will help develop you as a person) and enjoy everything you do, I guess that's the most important thing when you are trapped in the two-year service!

[curious_boi]

NOT Declaring 302 when you are gay and sure of your sexuality IS a chargeable offence and shows you have integrity issues.

[xenophile]

NOT Declaring 302 when you are gay and sure of your sexuality IS a chargeable offence and shows you have integrity issues.

if this is true... lotsa officers would have been charged by now...

[curious_boi]

if this is true... lotsa officers would have been charged by now...

Yea, I brought this up with a senior MO before. And the reply was so far, they have not done so yet. But its, technically, a chargeable offence.

[Slynn]

it is chargeable, not a 'must charge', so no one will really bother. unless you are caught doing deeds within the premise

There are pros and cons to declaring, didnt declare and thought i'd lived an awkward NS life because im a gay. but it turned out pretty awesome, and i did things i thought I couldn't. But leading monointake men doesn't sound so fun indeed u_u

but what wahwahboi said is true, u may end up somewhere else with stress too. Things are tough but you should not just get discouraged and so stressed up that you want to declare 302. Unless you are absolutely comfortable with the aftermath.

There are many things you can do before 302. like chaokeng. oops :x please do that with caution though, lest anyone buaysong you and start arrowing you.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Slynn