Should I Declare I am Gay during NS ? + Advise for Declaring 302 (Compiled)

[Guest Sharted Worse Farted]

Has there been any movement on the guy's 302 case over the last two-plus months, or is he still stuck in the same platoon with the same vocation, while waiting for the paperwork to slowly work its way through the system?

[Guest Harriz Zhafran]

My friend said that he was referred to SCC and IMH to speak with the counsellors there. He's still seeing the formation psychologist in camp as well. The MO said that he has to talk to PCC because the MO needs the memo from PCC to be able to down pes my friend. Otherwise the MO was thinking of down pes-ing my friend himself. 

[fuckmeup]

just a question, has anyone experienced a case whereby they did declare 302 before ns or in the early parts of ns. if so, tell us your story. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by fuckmeup

[superflawless]

Yes, I declared 3O2 before when i enlisted in 1994. It was the best decision I ever made.

I was excused from many things, including staying in (post-BMT) and I was allowed to shower in the sergeant's loo during BMT. 

I was also never called up for reservists.

Of course, the time period is more than two decades, so what happened then could have changed drastically today. 

My parent's were never called to bear witness since I have a psychiatrict report (a shrink I paid for on my own). 

Plus I am still close to a number of my istersays whom I met during my army days. 

Oh, one of those important benefits: I got to sleep with a number of army personnel, including 1 Major, because of my 3O2 status. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by superflawless

[HarrizZhafran]

On 6/4/2018 at 12:31 PM, superflawless said:

Yes, I declared 3O2 before when i enlisted in 1994. It was the best decision I ever made.

I was excused from many things, including staying in (post-BMT) and I was allowed to shower in the sergeant's loo during BMT. 

I was also never called up for reservists.

Of course, the time period is more than two decades, so what happened then could have changed drastically today. 

My parent's were never called to bear witness since I have a psychiatrict report (a shrink I paid for on my own). 

Plus I am still close to a number of my istersays whom I met during my army days. 

Oh, one of those important benefits: I got to sleep with a number of army personnel, including 1 Major, because of my 3O2 status. 

Nice.. Were the army personnel hot?

[fuckmeup]

On 6/4/2018 at 12:31 PM, superflawless said:

Yes, I declared 3O2 before when i enlisted in 1994. It was the best decision I ever made.

I was excused from many things, including staying in (post-BMT) and I was allowed to shower in the sergeant's loo during BMT. 

I was also never called up for reservists.

Of course, the time period is more than two decades, so what happened then could have changed drastically today. 

My parent's were never called to bear witness since I have a psychiatrict report (a shrink I paid for on my own). 

Plus I am still close to a number of my istersays whom I met during my army days. 

Oh, one of those important benefits: I got to sleep with a number of army personnel, including 1 Major, because of my 3O2 status. 

how did you get your own psychiatric report? and how much? 

[superflawless]

On 6/8/2018 at 9:38 AM, fuckmeup said:

how did you get your own psychiatric report? and how much? 

I called up a hospital (private) and asked for referral. The recept recommend a shrink and I called to make appointment that very same day. Turns out she's got very credible credentials and she knows people from CMPB. I lucked out. 

[Guest 302]

One very important point to consider before declaring 302.

It will be a permanent record and if you do intend to work in the public sector, your 302 status can be easily checked and retrieved.

I was in the army with two 302's back in the 90s, and the treatment of the two was slightly different.

[Wafflecorn]

Well, I didn't. There a few squad mates are LGBTs as well. None of us did declare 302 and everyone were pretty open and chill about it. Nothing happened to any of us.

 

[QQHappy]

Now NS is just 2 years. Declaring for what good... What so unbearable... 

[Guest Guest]

When you declare 302, how would they check and confirm that you are genuine case?

[Guest Guest]

On 13 June 2018 at 6:09 PM, Guest 302 said:

One very important point to consider before declaring 302.

It will be a permanent record and if you do intend to work in the public sector, your 302 status can be easily checked and retrieved.

I was in the army with two 302's back in the 90s, and the treatment of the two was slightly different.

How different they were treated?

[Lycanwolf]

Anybody know what will happen?

[Pubic01]

Lol. Don’t. Not necessary. Cause your parents likely will be called in to meet the MO once you declare. Unless u r out to your folks already. 

[Guest Hazing One Bunkmate]

I strongly advise against it. Declaring is more trouble than it's worth and you won't get many positive benefits out of it. No matter how "confidential" it is supposed to be, the danger of your platoon mates finding out is too great, especially since you will probably not be allowed to stay in the barracks overnight. Better to stay closeted.

 

https://www.blowingwind.io/forum/topic/899-is-it-better-to-declare-gay-302-advise-for-declaring-302-compiled/?page=7

 

Perhaps reading up on our discussion of this issue from late last year can give you some direction. In fact, this thread should probably be merged into that thread, instead of having a completely new thread. At any rate, my personal suggestion is that you put up with any problems you think you have, and do your NS without declaring.

[Raveology]

There'll be pros & cons to declare ba.

Pros: you get to chaogeng(pes C/ stay-out).
Cons: you'll get 'marked' by your superior/bunkmate. (which i dont think its worth it?) 

 

[Balestier]

If you will ever want to go into civil service,  think twice.

[Guest Guest]

How would they assess a person when he declared 302?

[Guest Kevin]

On 12/16/2018 at 9:12 AM, Balestier said:

If you will ever want to go into civil service,  think twice.

 Why?

[Balestier]

On 9/4/2019 at 7:41 PM, Guest Kevin said:

 Why?

You probably will not be able to join some sensitive jobs. 

[groyn88]

https://the-singapore-lgbt-encyclopaedia.wikia.org/wiki/Category_302

Category 302 (Cat 302 or simply 302 for short) is a medical code used to classify personnel in the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) who are "homosexuals, transvestites, paedophiles, etc.", as stated in a confidential directive. Gay soldiers who declare their sexual orientation to the army medical officers are shunted into this category, a practice which gives rise to much of the discrimination they face during National Service.

Origin

This medical code is derived from an outdated version of the ICD's (International Classification of Diseases) codes for mental disorders. The ICD is the World Health Organisation's (WHO) healthcare classification system which provides a system of diagnostic codes for categorising diseases for epidemiological, health management and clinical purposes. Singapore's civilian as well as military medical establishments have implemented the ICD system to classify all diseases in the republic since the 1970s.

The SAF's Category 302 bears exactly the same number as the now-defunct ICD-8 (ICD-8th revision, published in 1965) and ICD-9's (ICD-9th revision, published in 1975) codes for psychosexual disorders. "Code 302" in the ICD-8 was the classification for "Sexual deviation"[1] and in the ICD-9 for "Sexual deviations and disorders"[2]. At the time of the ICD-9's publication in 1975, homosexuality, together with zoophilia, paedophilia and satyriasis, amongst others, was included under Code 302.

 

However, a landmark development was the removal of "homosexuality" from inclusion under Code 302 in the ICD-9 by the World Health Organisation in 1990. In its place was inserted "Ego-dystonic homosexuality"[3]. This change was long overdue as the world's most influential bible for psychiatric diagnosis, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), published by the American Psychiatric Association had removed homosexuality from its list of mental disorders in 1973.

 

The ICD is currently in its 10th revision (ICD-10, published in 1992) and its Chapter V, which deals with mental and behavioural disorders, has overhauled its predecessor's codes entirely - the number 302 is nowhere to be found.

Procedure after coming out during NS

Coming out as gay during National Service is popularly called "declaring 302". The official procedures which the soldier are subjected to are governed by confidential directives and as such, are opaque to the general public. Moreover, these dictates are under periodic review as the cohort of native-born Singaporean males liable for National Service is steadily declining through the years in tandem with the plummeting birth rate. As such, the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) has to periodically modify its policies to cope with the reduction in manpower to optimise the combat deployability of all enlistees.

Even though the process is shrouded in confidentiality, NS men who have undergone the rigmarole have publicly described what they went through. The first was Lim Chi-Sharn who, at the age of 23 in 2002, penned a series of three seminal articles together with his mother, writer Christine Suchen-Lim. These were first published on Fridae and later, on Yawning Bread. Lim first entered the SAF in 1998 and was in the middle of Officer Cadet School when he was temporarily disrupted from National Service in mid-1998 to pursue a university education overseas. After four years, he returned to Singapore in July 2002 to complete his NS. Having disclosed his homosexuality to the authorities, he was informed that his NS liabilities would be served out in the Ministry of Defence and that his officer cadet training had thus been terminated. Lim's account of his experiences were first published on Fridae, and later, also on Yawning Bread.

Determination of fitness for combat training and staying in

Prior to the mid-2000s, homosexual soldiers classified under Category 302  were further subdivided into those "with effeminate behaviour" (in various degrees) and those "without effeminate behaviour" based on the arbitrary observations of psychologist performing the assessment. The higher the perceived level of effeminacy, the lower the PES (Physical Employment Status) grading. One drawback of this arbitrary assignment was that some gay NSmen may fake effeminate mannerisms to obtain a lower PES status, which would in turn lead to less demanding physical training and exemption from staying in camp.

Enlistees certified as transgender are assigned the lowest status of PES F (Medically unfit for any form of service). All personnel with the latter PES grade are not required to serve National Service.

However, the current practice is for the examining psychologist or psychiatrist to assess the suitability of 302 servicemen for combat training or staying in camp based on his medical condition and fitness level, rather than on his perceived effeminacy.

Rationale for use

It is not clear why the SAF persists in using such an outdated classification of homosexuality in its assessment of the medical fitness of recruits.

A clue is provided in an article entitled, 'Understanding Homosexual Servicemen' written by Mrs. Lily Wong-Ip in 'Council Link', a publication of the SAF Counseling Centre (now removed from this URL:[4]). In her article, Wong mentions the following perspectives of the SAF:

"...it is assumed that gays would threaten discipline and morale.

...it is assumed that the male bonding that takes place in combat would be jeopardised if its potential for erotic contact were condoned.

...it is believed that gays are subject to blackmail in the military context."

Impartial, long-term observations of openly gay men serving in the military in many countries has debunked the above fears. They are completely irrational.

This refusal to jettison an archaic medical concept of homosexuality and harbouring of irrational fears engenders discrimination because the military's grouping of homosexuality together with transvestism and paedophilia further reinforces the general public's misconception that it is abnormal.

It is therefore not surprising that "302" has become derogatory army slang for an effeminate soldier. One NSman recalls that when he approached a table of military personnel during mealtime, one of the officers remarked, "Here comes our 302!".

On the other hand, the SAF may also have the benevolent intention of protecting servicemen classified under Category 302 from emotional and physical abuse by their heterosexual counterparts and homophobic colleagues. Indeed, some gay servicemen think that it is beneficial for them to be thus classified. Another advantage was the former exemption of even masculine Category 302 personnel from staying in camp and from combat training.

Other reasons for the SAF's reluctance to abandon the outdated ICD-9 for the more comprehensive and contemporary ICD-10 may be the fear of how military medical practice will handle the drastic change with large-scale alterations required in order to ensure documentation is up to standard with full detail and specificity, the cost of implementation and increased administrative complexity. Not only is the coding organisation different, the sheer number of additional codes due to increased specificity is daunting. Using the new codes effectively and efficiently takes practice and time[5],[6],[7]. In fact, the Ministry of Health only migrated all Singapore hospitals and clinics from ICD-9 to ICD-10 in the early 2010s, and it was an extremely complicated, expensive and time-consuming process[8] which the SAF did not want to follow.

However, since the mid-2000s, military manpower authorities have gradually become more enlightened about homosexuality, i.e., it was part of the normal spectrum of human sexuality. SAF doctors have also accepted the fact that homosexuality had been removed from the ICD-9 coding system they use since 1990. This had led to the non-exemption of masculine, self-declared gay NSmen from combat training and from staying in camp. But with Category 302 still in place, homosexuals in the military are marked as being different and this subjects them to potential discrimination.

Category 302 in popular culture

"Glad to Be Gay", a 1978 song by British punk rock/new wave group Tom Robinson Band and considered to be the United Kingdom's national gay anthem was dedicated to the World Health Organisation because of its International Classification of Diseases' Code 302[9],[10].

 

 

Tom Robinson - Glad To Be Gay

 

See also

• Gay men in the Singapore Armed Forces
• Discrimination against homosexuals in Singapore
• International Classification of Diseases
• ICD-8
• ICD-9
• ICD-10
• Lim Chi-Sharn

Edited September 18, 2019 by groyn88

[Ell]

Sorry to bump such an old thread.

 

After reading through almost all the posts in here, I just have one question: As long as I’m above the age of 21, no family/parents will get involved right? 
 

Thank you so much to anyone that can help! 

[Gayboysg]

Dont be weak la, just serve it and save all the negative implications that will come after you declare. Just hide it. 

[btmslut]

my shock and worries of not being straight made me overcompensate very hard. i smoked 2 packs a day and was the typical tattooed ah beng who wanted to fight etc. in NS i admit it helped me get through.

 

but honestly, i always remembered the cmpb checkup where the clerk was filling in the form for me asked me "are you homosexual" and i said "no" and he checked off the box and moved to the next question.

 

the thing at the time in my mind was that my dad will kick me out and my mum's heart would be broken, it was known that i had to declare in front of one of them (my older brother was an officer in bmtc and told me the stories while laughing at the 302s.... yes my family is quite homophobic). 

 

many days im sure i should not have cared and just loved myself.

[Steve5380]

15 hours ago, btmslut said:

 

the thing at the time in my mind was that my dad will kick me out and my mum's heart would be broken, it was known that i had to declare in front of one of them (my older brother was an officer in bmtc and told me the stories while laughing at the 302s.... yes my family is quite homophobic). 

 

many days im sure i should not have cared and just loved myself.

 

 

I am sorry that you have a homophobic family.  Are you sure that your dad would kick you out, and it would break your mum's heart?    I have zero experience in this, my family was never homophobic, and I never came out anyway.

 

However, I think what I should have done if your situation would have happened to me.  As soon as I became an adult and independent, I would have congregated the family and came out to them.  I would tell them that since birth my sexual orientation has ben homosexual.  I don't blame them, and I don't blame myself, it has not been my choice.  They are my family and I love them,  but I won't accept anything less from their part.  Either they love me regardless of my sexual orientation,  or they will become completely strangers and I will completely break any relations with them. If so, I will probably move to another country and forget about them.  I love them, but this has to be reciprocal. It is their choice, and I think that my position is FAIR. 

 

For as long most of you have been alive, most of my childhood family has passed away.  I know how it is to live without the early family,  and it is perfectly fine.  I cherish them in my memory, and losing them does not diminish my present happiness. 

 

What is important is that we love ourselves.   As long as we do this, what I suggested may not be necessary if we can tolerate being in the closet while we are in close contact with the homophobic family.

[EastChat]

Most Singaporeans come from conservative family background and so it is already stressful indeed to be yourself. Unless of cos if you are lucky to have supportive parents then just declare. If you are not too feminine behavior then continue to be straight acting and just quietly serve finished your NS obligations. This is the hard truth bro.

Just maintain status quo and focus on completing this stage of life and plan for your future.

Complete one task one step at a time bro.

In fact the trainings are already too tiring to think about anything. Don't put too much stress already on yourself. Build yourself inside out and hopefully form some genuine friendships.

[Strange Fruit]

It’s interesting reading the accounts of others who have declared (or tried to declare) 302 during their NS. 
 

I was enlisted in January of 2002 and while initially enthusiastic about my Commando posting as I was pretty fit and naively eager to earn that coveted red beret, I very quickly learnt my limits and the ridiculous degree to which they expected recruits to perform with very little recovery time. I made it all the way through BMT and then when BCT came along which was another 12 weeks of hell but amped up, I heard on the grapevine that a guy from another platoon had declared 302 at the MO and been immediately released into the LOBO bunk the next day. By that point the LOBO bunk was already half filled with ten or so guys who had been downgraded due to injuries mostly due to the tactless training regimen that basically wore out joints in a matter of weeks, and in the course of constantly rushing around up and down four flights of stairs (we were only allowed to use the toilets on our company level on the fourth floor because part of the training involved inconveniencing privates in all possible situations so that we would never meet the unrealistic time limits and have to suffer multiple rounds of pushups or running to touch trees or whatever diabolical shit the trainers could think of) we would enviously pass the LOBO bunk where our out-of-course mates would be lounging about with nothing to do except sleep the floor or run the occasional errand. It was like a prisoner-of-war scene in which those who had betrayed their country were now living in luxury while the patriots suffered for their principles and were shown what they could be enjoying, if only they would just give in. 
 

So I finally made it to the MO the next day on the pretext of being physically ill, and fortunately got the ‘nicer’ one, the one who didn’t shout ‘You Chi bai, stop chao-kenging!’, Who listened to my confession of being gay and attracted to one of my platoon mates (I made that up - I had not gotten an erection for more than three weeks due to the stress despite the fact that there were many good-looking guys in the camp, my brain had literally no time to process naughty thoughts). I had to exaggerate as much as possible to effect an immediate OOC status and a 302 - PES E chop on my medical dossier. 
 

Sadly that was not to be. I was sent back to normal duty much to the ire of my Trainers who knew my MO visit was an excuse to get out of training for a few hours and made sure I made up for it for the rest of the day. This went on for about two more weeks until one Sunday I decided that I would rather go AWOL and suffer the consequences of DB than go through commando training ad Infinitum. I just wanted one more day of freedom. 
 

So I took a bus aimlessly from home and left my parents a note on my desk saying I was sorry for disappointing them but I could not take it anymore and I hope they understood. I was not suicidal, but it did at the time sound like a suicide note and it might have ultimately been what had saved me from DB. My parents filed a missing persons report and informed my camp of my absence while I stayed the night at a cheap motel and when I was eventually traced to my location via a phonecall I tried to make to my parents from the motel phone, the police came and I thought ‘Thia is it. This is DB.’ Turns out they were just the civilian police resolving and closing a missing persons file and had nothing else to do with me. 
 

I was allowed to stay at home for the day while my OC and platoon commander came to the house to make sure I was fine. They were as understanding as they could be in that professional brusque military manner that they had to uphold, and told me that they were worried that the note I had left my parents seems to imply much worse than had actually transpired. I think they were relieved they didn’t have a suicide on their hands, especially since the medical report (And fortnightly ‘welfare’ checks asking us how we were dealing with training, to which I had already raised a few issues) would have brought up a lack of adequate response to my concerns. The OC decided to cover up the AWOL case completely by altering the company attendance records and I assumed liaised with the MO to downgrade me with immediate effect. So far so good.

 

However, what was tactlessly done was that he had brought up with my parents the MO’s report of my declaring 302 as a reason as to why I went AWOL. My parents, for.a couple of years prior to NS, already had uncomfortable confrontations with me about my sexuality after discovering embarrassing things like gay literature or internet search histories (they dug deep to drag me right out of the closet kicking and screaming with the hopes I would be shamed into following the straight and narrow path) so now they had another reason to blame homosexuality for their weak-willed son. How would they explain to friends and relatives why he wouldn’t be getting a red beret after all? 
 

Part of the procedure of being in 302 limbo was that it was officially not in my medical record (I think to circumvent any bureaucratic formalities for the commando camp) was that I had to go for bi-weekly psychiatric sessions at the CMPB building far from my new unit which I was posted to (my PES status also remained an A). It was a confusing affair: I had two counsellors, one guy who concluded that it was okay to be gay and to just go out and live my best gay life after the army, and a conservative lady who tried to dissect my childhood to find instances of sexual abuse or neglect and told me that while she empathised with my situation, Homosexuality was still ultimately an aberration against God and society at large. And no good could come of it for me in the Long run. She also asked the famous question, ‘if homosexuality is to be accepted, where do we morally draw the line? Pedophilia? Bestiality?’ On two occasions, one with each counsellor, my parents had to come and sit in for what would be very uncomfortable chats where we tried to talk about me being gay with the counsellor as mediator. The male counsellor tried his best to be rational but I still remember when he asked my mother, ‘Do you accept you son as he is, knowing how much he has to go through?’ She sniffled into a tissue and said relentingly and unconvincingly, ‘Yes.’ I could sense the humiliation she felt having to talk to a stranger about her gay son. She would rather have one less person know about it, but the numbers were adding up. 
 

That was all the official business about my trying to declare 302 in NS. I think the initial humiliation I felt did indeed make me a lot bolder in a way, I felt since I had trudged through the hardest part of coming out, I would make light of the fact I was gay from then on. My company mates at my new infantry unit were mostly pretty fine with it, and I expected the usual boorish bum sex jokes and even played to them. The rest of my two years went by without much fuss and I dare say I even have good memories of some of those days. 

[btmslut]

Actually to add on to my story, in my uni days in Australia I did meet one Singaporean in a gay sauna. After sex I asked him about his NS (typical thing Singaporean men can always use as a conversation starter). He mentioned he was a mindef clerk after he declared 302. He told me that the procedure after declaring in front of his mum, was to strip naked and watch a gay porn tape and the MO would watch if he got hard. I actually believed him at the time, thinking it was the most logical foolproof way. But I guess looking back that would have broken lots of ethical medical rules so I doubt that's true!

 

But on the topic of my family being homophobic one of them actually searched my room when I was a work (1st year still staying with them) and neatly arranged my gay magazines (not hardcore, just naked men with erections)on my pillow along with my dildo and lingerie (garter with stockings, panties). I quickly bundled them up and threw them away. Never figured out who did it but shortly after I noticed they talked more often on how "ah kwa this, ah kwa that" in their conversations. Yes all gays are called ah kwas in my family... 

[Guest Guest]

I honestly think out of 100 gay guys, only 1 will declare 302. Or even lesser than that. Its so silly that once you declare 302, you will be deem unfit and posted to vocation like clerk. Im sure most of us have gay friends who were previously officers who are v fit and their leadership abilities are even better than most people.

[dsd]

Man, if I've known that 302 thingy, I would've done it.

 

Not that I suffered anything serious at all, in fact, it was rather fun occasionally when we went on field trips.

 

I think it would be fun also watching the faces of those interviewing me who I find sensually attractive in the army (I assume it would be one of the questions that would be asked).

 

My reply: Winston Choo.

[Guest Guest]

On 8/21/2024 at 1:02 PM, Guest Guest said:

I honestly think out of 100 gay guys, only 1 will declare 302. Or even lesser than that. Its so silly that once you declare 302, you will be deem unfit and posted to vocation like clerk. Im sure most of us have gay friends who were previously officers who are v fit and their leadership abilities are even better than most people.

I personally think why need to declare 302 in army. Give me to choose again, i would never declare 302. Unless you are really sissy and loud, then maybe can declare 302. If not just go thru army with others. 

[Guest Sly Fox and Hungry Wolf]

On 8/20/2024 at 5:00 PM, Strange Fruit said:

It’s interesting reading the accounts of others who have declared (or tried to declare) 302 during their NS. 
 

I was enlisted in January of 2002 and while initially enthusiastic about my Commando posting as I was pretty fit and naively eager to earn that coveted red beret, I very quickly learnt my limits and the ridiculous degree to which they expected recruits to perform with very little recovery time. I made it all the way through BMT and then when BCT came along which was another 12 weeks of hell but amped up, I heard on the grapevine that a guy from another platoon had declared 302 at the MO and been immediately released into the LOBO bunk the next day. By that point the LOBO bunk was already half filled with ten or so guys who had been downgraded due to injuries mostly due to the tactless training regimen that basically wore out joints in a matter of weeks, and in the course of constantly rushing around up and down four flights of stairs (we were only allowed to use the toilets on our company level on the fourth floor because part of the training involved inconveniencing privates in all possible situations so that we would never meet the unrealistic time limits and have to suffer multiple rounds of pushups or running to touch trees or whatever diabolical shit the trainers could think of) we would enviously pass the LOBO bunk where our out-of-course mates would be lounging about with nothing to do except sleep the floor or run the occasional errand. It was like a prisoner-of-war scene in which those who had betrayed their country were now living in luxury while the patriots suffered for their principles and were shown what they could be enjoying, if only they would just give in. 
 

So I finally made it to the MO the next day on the pretext of being physically ill, and fortunately got the ‘nicer’ one, the one who didn’t shout ‘You Chi bai, stop chao-kenging!’, Who listened to my confession of being gay and attracted to one of my platoon mates (I made that up - I had not gotten an erection for more than three weeks due to the stress despite the fact that there were many good-looking guys in the camp, my brain had literally no time to process naughty thoughts). I had to exaggerate as much as possible to effect an immediate OOC status and a 302 - PES E chop on my medical dossier. 
 

Sadly that was not to be. I was sent back to normal duty much to the ire of my Trainers who knew my MO visit was an excuse to get out of training for a few hours and made sure I made up for it for the rest of the day. This went on for about two more weeks until one Sunday I decided that I would rather go AWOL and suffer the consequences of DB than go through commando training ad Infinitum. I just wanted one more day of freedom. 
 

So I took a bus aimlessly from home and left my parents a note on my desk saying I was sorry for disappointing them but I could not take it anymore and I hope they understood. I was not suicidal, but it did at the time sound like a suicide note and it might have ultimately been what had saved me from DB. My parents filed a missing persons report and informed my camp of my absence while I stayed the night at a cheap motel and when I was eventually traced to my location via a phonecall I tried to make to my parents from the motel phone, the police came and I thought ‘Thia is it. This is DB.’ Turns out they were just the civilian police resolving and closing a missing persons file and had nothing else to do with me. 
 

I was allowed to stay at home for the day while my OC and platoon commander came to the house to make sure I was fine. They were as understanding as they could be in that professional brusque military manner that they had to uphold, and told me that they were worried that the note I had left my parents seems to imply much worse than had actually transpired. I think they were relieved they didn’t have a suicide on their hands, especially since the medical report (And fortnightly ‘welfare’ checks asking us how we were dealing with training, to which I had already raised a few issues) would have brought up a lack of adequate response to my concerns. The OC decided to cover up the AWOL case completely by altering the company attendance records and I assumed liaised with the MO to downgrade me with immediate effect. So far so good.

 

However, what was tactlessly done was that he had brought up with my parents the MO’s report of my declaring 302 as a reason as to why I went AWOL. My parents, for.a couple of years prior to NS, already had uncomfortable confrontations with me about my sexuality after discovering embarrassing things like gay literature or internet search histories (they dug deep to drag me right out of the closet kicking and screaming with the hopes I would be shamed into following the straight and narrow path) so now they had another reason to blame homosexuality for their weak-willed son. How would they explain to friends and relatives why he wouldn’t be getting a red beret after all? 
 

Part of the procedure of being in 302 limbo was that it was officially not in my medical record (I think to circumvent any bureaucratic formalities for the commando camp) was that I had to go for bi-weekly psychiatric sessions at the CMPB building far from my new unit which I was posted to (my PES status also remained an A). It was a confusing affair: I had two counsellors, one guy who concluded that it was okay to be gay and to just go out and live my best gay life after the army, and a conservative lady who tried to dissect my childhood to find instances of sexual abuse or neglect and told me that while she empathised with my situation, Homosexuality was still ultimately an aberration against God and society at large. And no good could come of it for me in the Long run. She also asked the famous question, ‘if homosexuality is to be accepted, where do we morally draw the line? Pedophilia? Bestiality?’ On two occasions, one with each counsellor, my parents had to come and sit in for what would be very uncomfortable chats where we tried to talk about me being gay with the counsellor as mediator. The male counsellor tried his best to be rational but I still remember when he asked my mother, ‘Do you accept you son as he is, knowing how much he has to go through?’ She sniffled into a tissue and said relentingly and unconvincingly, ‘Yes.’ I could sense the humiliation she felt having to talk to a stranger about her gay son. She would rather have one less person know about it, but the numbers were adding up. 
 

That was all the official business about my trying to declare 302 in NS. I think the initial humiliation I felt did indeed make me a lot bolder in a way, I felt since I had trudged through the hardest part of coming out, I would make light of the fact I was gay from then on. My company mates at my new infantry unit were mostly pretty fine with it, and I expected the usual boorish bum sex jokes and even played to them. The rest of my two years went by without much fuss and I dare say I even have good memories of some of those days. 

 

So were you really not contemplating suicide when you left home due to the un-siam-able tough training, or were you also seeking attention because you are by nature a drama queen? 

 

Or maybe you have noticed and found many of those out-of-course commandos-to-be in the LOBO bunk to be irresistibly hot and sexy eye candies, that you also naturally "self-sabotaged" - risked lying and feigning injury and suicidal with real and possible consequences of being sent to the detention barracks if found out - in order to create opportunities and facilitate chances for your sexual fantasies with those good looking guys to materialise while staying with them all days the whole day mostly lying in bed or going for toilet, shower and masturbation breaks in that LOBO bunk? 

 

Like you said, the hectic training stopped you from having erections for three weeks despite being surrounded by good looking guys, so you found a way to have your erections come back to you by lobo-ing in a bunk packed to the brim with out-of-course commandoes in various injured, undressed, vulnerable and horny states so that you could make use of your "recovered" erection to service and seduce them in the LOBO bunk.

 

You sly and crafty minx! 

[Strange Fruit]

2 hours ago, Guest Sly Fox and Hungry Wolf said:

 

So were you really not contemplating suicide when you left home due to the un-siam-able tough training, or were you also seeking attention because you are by nature a drama queen? 

 

Or maybe you have noticed and found many of those out-of-course commandos-to-be in the LOBO bunk to be irresistibly hot and sexy eye candies, that you also naturally "self-sabotaged" - risked lying and feigning injury and suicidal with real and possible consequences of being sent to the detention barracks if found out - in order to create opportunities and facilitate chances for your sexual fantasies with those good looking guys to materialise while staying with them all days the whole day mostly lying in bed or going for toilet, shower and masturbation breaks in that LOBO bunk? 

 

Like you said, the hectic training stopped you from having erections for three weeks despite being surrounded by good looking guys, so you found a way to have your erections come back to you by lobo-ing in a bunk packed to the brim with out-of-course commandoes in various injured, undressed, vulnerable and horny states so that you could make use of your "recovered" erection to service and seduce them in the LOBO bunk.

 

You sly and crafty minx! 

Thanks for reading all my posts, lots of references there to various things I have written before. But I think you inferred wrongly from my post on this thread that I intended to fake a suicide; that note was never intended to read as one, merely as an apology for not persevering. Mind you I was never downgraded my entire army life, I remained in the active infantry forces after leaving the Commandos where I thrived and did my job as best I could. I don’t think anyone who has never been in Basic Commnado Training fully comprehends what is expected of them. Also if I had wanted sex with hot guys it wouldn’t have been with the guys in the LOBO bunk- surely the hot ones would be the ones remaining in active service? I think you might be creating a fantasy scenario there that didn’t exist in the commando camp.  

[Guest Sly Fox and Hungry Wolf]

44 minutes ago, Strange Fruit said:

Thanks for reading all my posts, lots of references there to various things I have written before. But I think you inferred wrongly from my post on this thread that I intended to fake a suicide; that note was never intended to read as one, merely as an apology for not persevering. Mind you I was never downgraded my entire army life, I remained in the active infantry forces after leaving the Commandos where I thrived and did my job as best I could. I don’t think anyone who has never been in Basic Commnado Training fully comprehends what is expected of them. Also if I had wanted sex with hot guys it wouldn’t have been with the guys in the LOBO bunk- surely the hot ones would be the ones remaining in active service? I think you might be creating a fantasy scenario there that didn’t exist in the commando camp.  

 

Why did you need to apologise to your parents for not persevering in cdo training?

 

Not everyone is cut out to be a cdo. The cdo training is a natural selection process that eliminates weaker soldiers. From a batch of like two hundred trainees, in the end will dwindle down to like maybe around 20 cdos?

 

The turnover rate is so high. You don't even need to injure yourself. So long as you repeatedly fail to execute, perform and pass any training exercise or demonstrate the lack of a mentality that can handle and overcome the stress of any training exercise, you will be OOC.

 

As parents who love their child, wouldn't they be happy if you OOC if it was really that body-damaging like you said, unless you were really chao-geng-ing?

 

Also the OOC rate being that high, surely there will be some hot and hunky course mate that got injured or repeatedly cannot pass one of the training exercises. The pes A intake criteria also means they are all of a certain minimal fitness standard.

 

[Strange Fruit]

56 minutes ago, Guest Sly Fox and Hungry Wolf said:

 

Why did you need to apologise to your parents for not persevering in cdo training?

 

Not everyone is cut out to be a cdo. The cdo training is a natural selection process that eliminates weaker soldiers. From a batch of like two hundred trainees, in the end will dwindle down to like maybe around 20 cdos?

 

The turnover rate is so high. You don't even need to injure yourself. So long as you repeatedly fail to execute, perform and pass any training exercise or demonstrate the lack of a mentality that can handle and overcome the stress of any training exercise, you will be OOC.

 

As parents who love their child, wouldn't they be happy if you OOC if it was really that body-damaging like you said, unless you were really chao-geng-ing?

 

Also the OOC rate being that high, surely there will be some hot and hunky course mate that got injured or repeatedly cannot pass one of the training exercises. The pes A intake criteria also means they are all of a certain minimal fitness standard.

 

You have to understand that there are different types of parents. Some parents think their kids are a direct reflection of their own virtues or failings rather than having their own will and desire, and want to live vicariously through their success. Over the years I can see that my mum is like that, and if you read my post you’ll know she was let down by her own expectations. My note was me apologising for not living up to them. 
 

Also I think you are confusing the Singapore Commandos for the Rangers or US Navy Seals. Bear in mind unlike those two, many NSmen serving out their NS were not doing it out of personal volition, they were just drafted in based on PES status (which indicates a clean bill of health rather than one’s physical abilities or natural stamina) they even had an overweight PT batch that enlisted a few weeks earlier to shape them up for BMT. You can be PES A but not in great physical shape, it just means your physiological, cardiovascular and mental health have been assessed to be fine)

 

If the process of becoming a commando meant weeding out weaker enlistees with tests they would have to pass, then yes they would have only 20 guys passing out with a red beret out of the batch of 160-200, but that is not the case. Rather, I think the mental ability to ‘tahan’ for another ten minutes, an hour, another hour, another day, and to almost  clear your mind of thoughts while doing so is more important than meeting an objective, it is a mental test more than a physical one and certainly having a nice body or being ‘hunky’ or ‘manly’ has nothing to do with it. If anything, you become lean and tough like an endurance runner because of the inhuman levels of cardio you will be subjected to. The gay sexual ideal of muscular GI Joe physiques has very little basis in reality, though of course there were some.  The OOC guys were often quickly transferred out to other units within a matter of a couple of weeks; I myself served as a commando officer mess boy for about three months before I was posted to another unit for active service.

 

[Guest Sly Fox and Hungry Wolf]

2 hours ago, Strange Fruit said:

You have to understand that there are different types of parents. Some parents think their kids are a direct reflection of their own virtues or failings rather than having their own will and desire, and want to live vicariously through their success. Over the years I can see that my mum is like that, and if you read my post you’ll know she was let down by her own expectations. My note was me apologising for not living up to them. 
 

Also I think you are confusing the Singapore Commandos for the Rangers or US Navy Seals. Bear in mind unlike those two, many NSmen serving out their NS were not doing it out of personal volition, they were just drafted in based on PES status (which indicates a clean bill of health rather than one’s physical abilities or natural stamina) they even had an overweight PT batch that enlisted a few weeks earlier to shape them up for BMT. You can be PES A but not in great physical shape, it just means your physiological, cardiovascular and mental health have been assessed to be fine)

 

If the process of becoming a commando meant weeding out weaker enlistees with tests they would have to pass, then yes they would have only 20 guys passing out with a red beret out of the batch of 160-200, but that is not the case. Rather, I think the mental ability to ‘tahan’ for another ten minutes, an hour, another hour, another day, and to almost  clear your mind of thoughts while doing so is more important than meeting an objective, it is a mental test more than a physical one and certainly having a nice body or being ‘hunky’ or ‘manly’ has nothing to do with it. If anything, you become lean and tough like an endurance runner because of the inhuman levels of cardio you will be subjected to. The gay sexual ideal of muscular GI Joe physiques has very little basis in reality, though of course there were some.  The OOC guys were often quickly transferred out to other units within a matter of a couple of weeks; I myself served as a commando officer mess boy for about three months before I was posted to another unit for active service.

 

Don't they conduct physical and endurance tests in the cdo camp after pes A screening at the CMPB for another round of filtering for the actual intake before basic cdo training starts?

 

If those pes A candidates mostly cmi, cdo training school will lower the criteria to allow more overweight and less fit candidates to pass the cdo camp screening. If not they would have insufficient intake for the training to start.

 

Your intake probably was like that. That also explains why sometimes there are many cdos wearing glasses in a particular batch.

 

Yes there is a brainwashing about mental over physical endurance, but the training also involves physical execution of very specific tasks that requires not just endurance, but also speed, agility, coordination skills, spatial sense and memory. Many trainees would fail those tasks, even if they have excellent fitness and endurance.

 

I agree muscles and "hunkiness" do not necessarily improve a trainee's chance at successfully completing training and passing out as cdos, for they never cleanly translate across into strength or endurance, much less the other criteria above. Some of those "hunkiness" or bulkiness are just fats and water that add weight to the body, making one less agile and slower in movements and reflexes.

 

That said, many top performing cdos are actually very muscular and hunky though. Some OOC trainees can also be very muscular and hunky. Some even OOC due to chicken pox that caused them to miss many training sessions.