From Bw Archives 66 : 06 Oct - 13 Oct 2000

[HendryTan]

I cannot help but get drawn into the Gay Controversy

Okay, my final words on this controversy Gay Controversy Article . Just be warned that it is very dry and boring.

Unnecessary sarcastic remarks will be removed.

10/13/00 04:42:40

Name: Malbroman

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Hi guys! It has been some time since I've been here. Lots of catching up to do. Anyway, been reading here abt that gay spa, I will not visit a place where the owners discriminate. To heck with it no matter how many 'Hunks' there are. We gays want the publ c to accept us but some idots PLUs out there are doing the same. Remember one thing, The very same people who DISCRIMINATE will get Old, fat and 'ugly' some day. Can'twait for that to happen, than I will laugh at your face. I may get some people angry but who are you to judge?

Now to music! Kylie's new album LIGHT YEARS is a must buy! She's back to whatshe does best, make pop music. Get it if you wanna be happy man. Very radio friendly. Everytrack could be a single. Go buy it!

10/13/00 03:27:29

Name: IceBoy

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Everyone of us have different views in life and of coz towards being a democratic world, we can voice our own opinion. So i say we just maintain all our views as personal, no need to force everyone to think exactly the same as u, but we can open our area f discussion at the same time. Just simple soft discussion will makes everyone happy. Sometimes, we bound to have arguments, but Bear in mind, tolerance and endurance is important. Afterall, we are all here in this worlds as friends, to give and take is eally important. Hope there is always PEACE here. May the force be with u guys all. Take care and cya.

10/13/00 01:05:03

Name: Summer

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

An swimming instructor( Profile : Age 22, Chinese, 1.7m/64kg, Fit Built, Tann Body, Boyish & Clean Cut Look ) is providing Swedish ( Oil ) massage service that can relax both your body and mind at afforable rate. For more information or Appt, pls contact 3885501 *Available 24hrs & hotel and house call only. Regulars Client and Army personel will charge cheaper rate

10/12/00 20:54:39

Name: Mckay

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

So Rairua really dun let ah-pehs go in har? No wonder I saw so many young and delicious looking ones a few days ago But anyways, I want to say a big "HI" to Ahboi!!!! Well, ah boi, I'm still wrecking my head as to what should I study. Ok...got to g ...more sex stories pls...work is already stressed up...dun make this forum stressful also...

10/12/00 16:21:28

Name: Adrian

Comments:

Hi there guys,

Been scanning through the postings and am here to offer my opinion.

I am not a overt PC person, because I know I appreciate the beautiful things in life and looks are passing hunks and cuties. But I also do not deny the fact that looks is not everything because we are all so much more than what we look like.

I am not supporting neither camps, but am just saying that we need to adopt a balanced viewpoint and should not try to force our opinions on others. Even though we might feel that outer beauty is not everything, we cannot deny others who might think so. I we force our views on them, we are only making them more resistant to our way of thinking.

There is a need to be tolerant of others who adopt different views from us. This on going argument is no different from trying to change the mindset of those h mophobics. The content might be different, but the essence of what is being argued is the same. Let everyone do whatever they want. We can have out views and express them, but there is no point to get angry over anything.

Peace my friends.

10/12/00 14:58:03

Name: Tima My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: Vouyeur Your Fav Body Type: fair, slender & well built

Comments:

You know, I think the guys dressing nowadays are too sloppy and unattractive.....loose tees and big baggy shorts. In contrast, the girls are getting sexier and the clothes tighter and skimpier. Now, why can't the same happen to guys, hey? I like to see those cuties in tight tees and tiny shorts - the tighter and shorter the better. You know, boys, (Oops, I mean ...guys) can look good in tight little jeans shorts too. Any comments?

10/12/00 12:07:08

Name: loupgarou

Comments:

Are you allow to work out in the gym with just a towel and nothing else underneath.

[unquote]

Yes. but the silly thing would be to pay to enter babylon JUST for a workout

10/12/00 11:35:01

Name: Muscle Logbook Fan

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

I am a regular reader of what is called Muscle Logbook. It's a bulletin board for gay lovers of muscle and its contributors vary from young hunks to mature men seeking hunk escort services. The unusual thing about this board is the highly articulate natur of the postings. One in particular is a thread started by an American muscle escort in his early twenties who posted this:

"Gentlemen:

I'm a muscle escort based in New York City and I wanted to start this thread to discuss--from one muscle escort's point of view--what it's like to be a muscle escort; how I like to treat my clients; how I like for my clients to treat me; and what goes on nside my head when dealing with clients.

Please feel free to ask me anything you want, however, I would like to remain anonymous and will not reveal my name or how to get in touch with me, as I am not doing this to gain new clients".

The response to this posting has been phenomenal. In just a week there are 11,000 hits on this one thread alone and to date 133 replies. The escort's answers to a wide range of questions are superb, and I urge anyone to take an hour off and read them for heir maturity and wisdom. All sorts of topics are touched on. You should be able to go straight to the thread by clicking on the URL above. You might then want to look at some of the other threads as many of them are fun, and some good pics too.

10/12/00 09:45:56

Name: Roger

My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: fxxking ass & getting fxxked!

Comments:

This is probably a dumb question but I need to ask since I have not been to places like Babylon...

Are you allow to work out in the gym with just a towel and nothing else underneath. Would wearing a thong underneath be appropriate?

I don't want to look silly on my first visit there.

10/12/00 07:34:40

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

xnnb

10/12/00 05:10:20

Name: loupgarou

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

fxxk off is like saying get lost, go away or sod off. Loupgaroupa used the words sod off, which meant go away, which meant get lost which meant fxxk off. So, unless Loupgaroupa takes back his sod off, I am not taking back my fxxk off. [unquote] a) do not twist my words or misrepresent it. b) If I wanted to say fxxk off, I WOULD have. so fxxk OFF NOW ALREADY.

10/12/00 05:03:35

Name: Darren

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To Charles

The Ang Mohs. Oh the Ang Mohs, sori I forgot that. I thought the national campaign is meant for Sing guys. Most whites here are on green-card professional status, some are PRs, so they do not come under our jurisdiction. :-)

Its good to have them around for die-hard incorrigible patatoe queens. It adds colour and variety to our aim to be a cosmopolitian society. We welcome them (especially their investment $).

Now that is a PC answer.

Of course in my weird, depraved mind there is an ultimatum for them. I am unable to write the mandates here because it would be politically incorrect to do so. I do not want to be ex-communicated by BW. (Now that PC is an i sure, what the hack, I sure do care).

I will tell you those body deifying plans I have for them in a stag party (sorry, I mean STUD party). It may have them bursting their g-string laughing.

Chiao, have a good day!

10/12/00 04:54:12

Name: Chinchilla My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: Hugging Your Fav Body Type: Lean Well Built Muscle Bod

Your Nationality: sg

Comments:

Which is the best gay sauna in singapore? Stroke ? Rairu ? Blue Heaven ? Or even the Ryu sauna in JB ? Is there less singaporean in the Jb sauna since the opening of more local ones?

10/12/00 04:33:40

Name: Caution - dying breath

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

This will be my last words in this bulletin board. After this, Caution will be gone. You will not see the nick again here. Did I hear a collective cheer of "Hooray"?

I want to reiterate one thing before I go. Fair is Foul posted a very pertinent question earlier. I am attaching his post here to save you guys time to go looking for it. This is not an attempt to drag on the debate on discrimination. I just wish to now the views of of those who had posted before - what do we do if something like what Fair is Foul has described happen here in Singapore? Thanks.

____________________________________________________________________

Just my $0.00000002 as a show of support for Caution. This kind of discrimination seems dangerously close to the that based on skin colour or nationality. What if some of the favoured clients of Rairua also think that people of a particular ethnic group are not their "type" and don't want them around? Will Rairua also use the same rationale as that used to exclude the Ah Peks and the fatties? I am aware that this type of discrimination happens everywhere but is that reason enough to accept it?

10/12/00 04:28:11

Name: Seng

Comments:

How come BW becomes arguement board? Can anyone spice up the board with some juicy story? Now seem like the board is something more or less very serious about all those discrimination. Regarding the beauty and ugly, it's very subjective. There's no one re lly ugly and no one reeally gorgious.

Hope to hear those juicy story soon

Kawan, you finally got handphone conglatulation. I will call you soon, but now very busy last month of my company FY.

10/12/00 02:16:31

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Link: Dr. Laura apologises to gay community.

10/11/00 21:54:26

Name: Oral B

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

*Sigh*

caution, after reading u latest posting, i dun know whether to laugh or to shrug at it. boy that's sure a comical way to look at the discussion (or getting away from it)

nevertheless, i agreed with the rest, the topic has stretch too long and too much. i will not comment on the it anymore. personally, i will drop by the place to check it out when i am back in Singapore. apology to those that had to read through so much, b t hey at least there BBS is more vibrant :-P

ahem....... Caution, any ?fan mails? pls forward to my email address. last but not least, i dun enjoyed getting fxxked, both physically and verbally. Get the Pic?

now AK post all the BKK stories to tide us through this empty season

10/11/00 21:48:36

Name: FlameEater

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

When u feed a dog it will always come back for more, it goes the same with an ego......so why bother......Let's carry on with life.

Flame me for all I care. Cheers

10/11/00 21:38:50

Name: kpo guy My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me Your Fav Sextivity: none of ur bis

Your Fav Body Type: none of ur bis Your Nationality: kiasu country

Comments:

hi comment only no need to be reactive. dont know how come ur all jia ba bo sai pang(hokkien) likes to argue. little bit also must say. y ur all having pms issit. anyway i am positive that there are lots of readers who does not understand wat the fight is abt and how it started. so .. anyone cares to to a summary of important factors. candidate pls take note :how it started and wat is it abt?? summarise with 200 wo ds keep it short. haha serious anyone pls y all must fight it is already a tough battle between ur and those str8 who are anti gays y fight among urself. jialiat must fight for bf scared kena hoook by guy or gal must fight for money, hello kitty , lan jiao , position in society... ... alamak no time ah lol

10/11/00 21:21:54

Name: JadeBody

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Jadebody makes his glorious entrance ... ...

First of all, please do not call the old, fat and ugly as "less fortunate" as some of you are calling them, this is so untrue and incorrect. Please know what it is call to be "less fortunate" - lest I accu e you of calling names.

Secondly, we live in a cosmetic and packaging world. Many times, we are being deceived by the beautiful images and not finding and knowing its genuine content. Those that are not so eye-catching or outstanding are often put asi e, discarded or forgotten, BUT, that dosen't mean they are of no value. I stand with Caution, because I consider him as a keeper where he knows and identifies his family and his tribe - well well Caution-baby, in a family, there bounce to have disagreemen s, strifes and rivalries. I am sure you are taking it cool and easy ...

Thirdly, just to cast a thought for everyone to contemplate : if the old, fat and ugly are filthy, fxxking RICH, and the young, hunky and cute are stinky destitute, where the he l is this fxxking DISCRIMINATION going to stand with???

10/11/00 19:38:34

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

Oops, sorry Oral B, my actual e-mail should be above. Will be waiting for your e-mail my little cutie-pie.

10/11/00 19:33:38

Name: Caution - going, going

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

To Oral B:

You are not really here for the discussion, are you?......*grin*. I think you enjoy getting "fxxk" by me. Everytime you said something idiotic, I "fxxk" you, then you come back again pretending to say something idiotic and I "fxxk" you again and again. I think we might have something going on here.....*smile*

Ok, like I said in my post before, I have never been to rairua. I did brought a foreign friend there, and just let him off from my car at the door. No, I don't have a friend that was rejected. All these I have said before if you care to read the whole hread.

I think I am your type. I am early middle-age, unattached, successful businessman (trust me - I don't lie), fairly well-educated, enjoy the good things in life, and getting oral from a feisty stud like you. I am fairly tall and have a swimmer built (I u ed to swim competetively) and I hate it when people call me a yuppy. E-mail me privately and perhaps we can work something out. I have some vacation time coming up, perhaps I can visit you in the States?

For the rest of you, please leave us alone. Oral B and I are courting each other.

10/11/00 17:39:38

Name: Oral B

My Email: Email Me

Your Nationality: Sg

Comments:

Now this is PERSONAL

"Listen, in your post dated 10/02/00 20:23, you admitted you enjoy sucking cock. " GO AND READ MY POSTING AGAIN! I say I like oral, I never mentioned giving or talking, and moreover that posting was I receiving from someone. u accused others of NOT r ading u posting, u never did uself! u are the one that need help. ops guess u are beyond hope. let the doctor save others

i am tempted to return fire by saying "u're a scum sucking filthy whoring dildo." then again why should i praise u? u enjoy pple hurling abuse at u and u never hesitate to return them.

the public bus was an analogy, it never mean i fxxk or get fxxked. rather it enforced my point that i have my limitation. if u dun understand that, pls go and read it over again. go memorized it! i am sick of u picking my words and refused to answer the b sic question, like were u refused entry in the sauna?

abt mars thing, it was meant to be mockery, it was meant as a joke, no one in this board take it seriously, oh except u, why? brain too rigid to accept it? this would bring us to the "u", it is a common term in the Internet for "you" or "your" depends on ontext. everyone know that.... ops i missed u again..... okay almost everyone know that.

MacDonald's example is to tell u that advertising can be a little misleading. it has nothing to do with discrimination, GO READ MY POSTING AGAIN.

honestly, i would have filled the whole reply with vulgarities and harsh word (like u did), but i guess my sane reply will reflect on my personality (and u DUN have to reply to this, pple from this BBS will make the judgment) and p/s just coz pple like to verbally abuse u (and i wonder why :-P) and u dun give a damn, DOESNT mean we should take this SHIT from u. GROW UP, u sound a teenage delinquent that felt that whole world own u something.

"We should all take a rest from all these" ha! let me get it str8 (another pun) u verbally bashed us, namely spinner and myself, and then u wanna us to let it go or peace or whatever? hey u never did that either, whenever we reply to u _ahem_ "idiotic" me sages, u came back with a bigger and harsher one! Peace indeed......

"Please just e-mail me directly if you have something more to discuss with me personally." my that's a joke, again u never practice that what u preach.

So "Please just e-mail me directly if you have something more to discuss with me personally." as if u would??????.

10/11/00 17:02:24

Name: Caution - will be gone soon

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

Fair is Foul had made an extremely pertinent point. Something that I did not even think of. Thanks.

Any comment from you guys?

10/11/00 16:18:15

Name: Warren

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

To someone who I have spent a day without planning : Thanks for giving such a wonderful day eventhought we have not know each other well and you are attached, I will know what to do, but can't help myself to say that I do like you very much. Take Care

10/11/00 15:34:27

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

Some people just can't read simple english...*sigh*. I told you guys not to read if you are not Oral B, and if you still insist on reading if you are not Oral B, then e-mail me if you have something to say, but NOOOOOOOOO, you guys must say it here, so I ve no choice but to reply.....*sigh*. Idiots.

As far as I am concern, the discussions on Rairua's silence, and latter reply is over. They have replied, they have admitted there is a change of policies and that is good enough for me. So this issue is over, finito. Let's move on.

Then the issue of discrimination crops up. I have never told anybody here how they should or should not behave. It is all in our conscience. I did not say, come on guys, let's all boycott Rairua. I even said Rairua has a right not to reply and I have right to continue to question them. The issue on discrimination then exploded when some of you piled in to say discrmination is everywhere, and everybody discriminate in one form on another. My position on this discrmination issue was simply to state h w I feel. We can discuss for days, even weeks and we can never have a conclusion. So I suggest let it rest. Nobody, and I repeat nobody win or lose in this particular discussion.

My choice of words. Some called it name-calling, using foul languages etc. I have personally been classified: rabble rouser, trouble maker, stupid, coward, woman, long-winded, nasty, auntie, nit-picker, egoistic and some other names or descriptions that I missed out (sorry to those call me something or something and I missed you on this list). And all these were describing me and me alone....*grin*...AS IF I GIVE A fxxk!!!.....*grin*.

OK, nearly all the posts directed at me during the last day or so were about about my choice of words when I rebutt or reply to you guys - don't be shy, you know who you are. Therefore, I am going to list all the bad names/bad words that I use which you uys don't like, and see if I can take them back. Perhaps then we can be friends again. The words I used to describe some people were rats, cowards, fxxk off, shut the fxxk up, sad little idiots, idiots, idiotic cocksucker (I think you guys didn't like t is one, especially that fella called Herpes, or is it Hermes, whatever), and the last one, as if I give a fxxk.

Rats and cowards was used in my initial description of Rairua for not responding earlier on, and for not attaching their names to their reply. I won't take this back. I am still convinced this is how I feel about them. fxxk off is like saying get lost, go away or sod off. Loupgaroupa used the words sod off, which meant go away, which meant get lost which meant fxxk off. So, unless Loupgaroupa takes back his sod off, I am not taking back my fxxk off. Shut the fxxk up was used at Zen I think, and since both he and I have made up, I don't think I need to take back the words. Fine with you Zen?

Sad little idiots was directed at those of you who made extremely disparaging remarks at old people. I WON'T take this back. In fact, if anyone made such remarks in front of me, I will say the same thing to them too, loudly.

Idiots were use quite extensively to describe some of you guys. You see, you guys felt hurt by the word idiot because you feel it is a negative word. It is not. You guys should be like that idiot (his real nick) who wrote earlier confessing that he can t comprehend my long, long comments. Most of you guys are like that. You never bother to read the previous posts and jumped in clueless to the discussions with really stupid ideas. Time and again I have to rebutt your silly assumptions. And you guys k pt coming back for more. But never mind, idiots is an accurate description WITHOUT any negative connotation (in my opinion)so I won't take it back.

Idiotic Cocksucker was of course Oral B, and it took me a long time to explain to him why I call him that. He is an idiot - I have already explain that in my previous post to him. He loves sucking cock; he shared the the information readily, so why is i wrong to call him that? Don't tell me you guys thought the word cocksucker is in bad taste? Hello?....are you guys a little insecure? Look, if John did not screw his own mother, but Jack call him a motherfxxker, then do we all agree that John has a ri ht to feel aggrieved? Now, if John really did do his own mother and share the information with everyone, in details, then if Jack call John "Hey motherfxxker," John would probbly answer "Yo, what's up man?" John would never feel hurt.

I see a double standard. You guys can call me all sorts of things which CANNOT be backed up. I take it on the chin. No problem for me. They are all your opinions. But when I call people by their right attributes and JUSTIFY why I describe them as so, endlessly if you don't mind my saying so; I get endless grief from you guys. Look, the words "fxxk" or "cocksucker" describes the things we do frequently. This is a bulletin board, all the people here are faceless and we all call each other names. Big eal. Do we used such "terms of endearment" outside in our public lives? Of course not....well actually I do...quite a lot. But that's me, son of a coffee shop owner...*sigh* I have a foul mouth but a big heart.

If you guys care to notice, I never use words like motherfxxker, son of a bitch, bastards etc. I don't use them, because I cannot accurately attribute them. I am clueless if any one of you are what I have just described. But, rats, fxxk, idiots, cocksu ker; these I can accurately attribute and I make no apologies for them.

We should all take a rest from all these. Like I have said before, as far as I am personally concerned the discussions/bebates on rairua, discriminations, the way I write is, has ended. Let's all let it go. Peace.

And e-mail me directly if you wish to flame, scold, encourage or even date me. Let's not do it here anymore.

10/11/00 14:52:40

Name: Charles My Email: Email Me

Your Fav Sextivity: nipples and cuddles Your Fav Body Type: chunky or hunky

Your Nationality: ang mo@San Francisco

Comments:

Darren

Okay, thanks for the ref. Everyone has to look like James Lye. Everyone. Even the ang mo.

Zen

Don't worry, eventually the wind will blow out this discussion. You scroll up? I guess that makes sense, since that's chronological. For me, it involves too much scrolling back and forth with long comments, so I just read from the top until I get to the comments I've already seen. It's quite a wierd effect, since I read the replies before I read the comments that launched them. (And no, BW, please don't make the type smaller.)

10/11/00 14:39:46

Name: Fair is Foul & Foul is Fair

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Just my $0.00000002 as a show of support for Caution. This kind of discrimination seems dangerously close to the that based on skin colour or nationality.

What if some of the favoured clients of Rairua also think that people of a particular ethnic group are not their "type" and don't want them around? Will Rairua also use the same rationale as that used to exclude the Ah Peks and the fatties?

I am aware that this type of discrimination happens everywhere but is that reason enough to accept it?

10/11/00 13:43:23

Name: Zen

Comments:

I am sorry lah if my comments unintentionally prick and starts to incur some sarcasm from different people and give me all sorts of labels. I dislike it. But I'll not return sacarsm with sacarsm. And I've not used vulgarity.

Discrimination exists in the world. I recognise that.

Someone else say it is the extent which u would find comfortable. I agree.

I never complained that Rairua owes us anything. If anything they owe it to themselves to do as they see fit.

But I must say I have a narrower scope of tolerance for discrimination. It seems ok if you don't accept a granny into a childcare, seems ok if u run a gay spa and not allow non-gays. Seems ok if I don't employ you because you don't have the competencie I need.

I just cannot keep mum when it becomes "I'm sorry, you cannot enter a spa because you are not beautiful enough." If it is within my means, I'll fight it. If not, I'll make noise. Like Charles say, I reserve my right to protest just as much as they have the right to run their business as they like it. Why do I incur sarcasm if I protest within the limits imposed by the owner of this BB? (Essentially, called no-attitude). If u find it boring, sorry, I can be really boring yes. But don't need to barbeque m , just scroll up.

I ought to be thankful for having this space. I'm still thankful for Actionkid for giving me support when I was struggling. I still like a lot of friends I know from here...Cuthbert, Edmund, Ahboi, Loupgarou, Auscent, Gard, Sting Ray, Just Me, Rhys, Le ter...so many so many....but I won't bother about this board anymore since I'm unwelcome.

I am very sad, fxxking disappointed. But I won't waste my emotions for very long.

10/11/00 11:22:23

Name: AMK2000

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Someone I bump into who said that he felt he was reject entrance to rairau, tip off its activities to the authourity. Carful guys!!

10/11/00 09:45:25

Name: loupgarou

Comments:

discrimination: A reality check.

Discrimination happens. don't be shocked. and discrimination is essential to the human race.

some people will prefer to use the term preference, but that doesn't change the facts.

Some people will be discriminated against, because the principles of evolution is "those that survive, survive to propogate their genes", it is one of those hard coded genetic instincts that lead humans to seek out the very best that they are accorded to. P> That's why all the hunky, lean, physically attractive, rich, possessing huge dick or big boobies categories of people get all the attention they do.

In society, various segments of society get marginalised. Businesses discriminate against the poor.

Country clubs discriminate against the lower status caste of maids.

Model competitions discriminate against the ugly, fat etc.

Pyramid game, game shows on tv etc discriminate against the intelligent.

Mensa discriminates against the stupid.

The internet discriminates against the IT illiterate.

I don't anyone taking your ire out on those. The only is that it is politically correct NOT to discriminate against a group of people whose attributes you are discriminating have NO relevancy to the "task" at hand. Therefore, a job looking for a chinese speaking telephone operator cannot discriminate against malay chinese speakers.

BUT a private club, or a spa for a particular sex have their entitlement to discriminate against due to the business case.

eg: will you consider a daycare centre for children a case of blatant discrimination if they refuse to take your aging grandmother in.?

As far as rairua or any organisation using this forum, this is a means of disseminating information/advertising , not an obligatory feedback gathering centre.

10/11/00 08:29:01

Name: hermes

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

I say it is a good thing to speak up against discrimination aginst the not-so-fortunate but seems like someone has make it his personal crusade. I find people who is overly sarcastic and insulting and start to call people names aren't really mature and ultimately a sore loser. How do we expect a person of such kind to speak up on behalf of the less fortunate. Anyway, yes we all like to be politically correct but let's face reality of life too. And who said that the so called 'undesirables' can't be nasty people too. Ever heard of 'Eloi' and ' Morlocks'?

10/11/00 07:40:39

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

To Ahboi:

Hey!, what's makes you think I am going to smooch you on the lips?....*grin*.

Spinner:

I probably know your boss or rather his kind. Don't worry, we are all kind and gentle during work to people like you, because you are much cheaper to hire. Let it rest, or do you need me to spell it out slowly for you? L-e-t i-t r-e-s-t. Now, that w s said with gentleness and kindness. Peace.

The rest is for Oral B. Please skip this part if you are Oral B. I said please skip if you are not Oral B. But if you insist on reading it and you have something to say to me on a personal leve, please e-mail me. Thanks.

Oral B:

You think I am not justified when I call you an idiot? You don't like the word? Fine. How about if I call you an idiotic COCK-SUCKER. Would that make you more happy? Listen, in your post dated 10/02/00 20:23, you admitted you enjoy sucking cock. Now don't be defensive. You admit it yourself. To me a cocksucker or an idiot doesn't carry any negative connotation. Some of the best blow jobs I get are from idiotic cock-suckers like you. You guys are quite endearing to me actually.

I have already explain why I call you a cock-sucker already. If you feel negative about the name, go see your school's shrink. He may be able to tell why you enjoy sucking cock and admit it as much in this BB, but dislike it when someone call you one. K, no disagreement here right?

Now let me justify why I call you idiotic. It means blur, stupid, clueless, not so smart. I really didn't want to, honestly, but you force me to explain in details why I describe you as such.

You said you will not undesirables even touch you right? Then how can they even ride (fxxk) you like a bus? They can't, they NEVER could. Or are you saying you don't mind if the desirables ride you like a bus? The way you wrote it is a sign of the mind f well...how can I put it nicely...a convulated mind.

You suggest if we want to find a discrimination-free place to go to the planet Mars. Do I need to elaborate? No completely sane person make such a remark. BTW, have you been there?

Oh ok, the none existence tickets to Woodstock was meant for me. You or is it u, are confusing. Your "u" mean "you," and your "u" could also mean "your?". What about the word "pretering?" What was that meant to be?

You bring up the size of Macdonald hamburgers in their ads and do I complain about them? Now, by bringing up something so totally irrelevant to the main issue at hand, you just prove yourself to be an idiot. Blur, stupid and clueless, even up to this st ge of discussion. One last time, Macdonald never promote their burgers on this BB. And even if they did, if their choose to size their burgers smaller, or increase their price without telling us, it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH DISCRIMINATIONS!!! hey would be discriminating if they would not admit old folks, or say certain racial group into their premises. You see, you idiotic cocksucker (spoken with affection without negative connotation), this thread ALL STARTED when I question (not accuse) why Rairua are not answering the allegations of discriminations when they choose to promote their clubs here. If you had bother to read all their promos/replies (I had listed every one of them) you would realise that you had NEVER HESITATED to answer queries originating from this BB before. They even, by themselves, without prompting, announced to this BB the visit from the vice-squad, a few hours after they left. All the previous actions from them on this BB indicate a certain pattern of behaviour. They kno we are important for their business and they do monitor the BB. Do you get it???? Do you now understand why I call you a clueless, stupid idiotic cocksucker (truly, all spoken with affection)?

Your last paragraph on your lastest post was so convulated and stupid, it send a cold chill down my spine when I realise you actually represent part of our future generation. I have NEVER said any of these things you have thought up. How in the world di you ever think such things up when I never said such things in my posts? Are you actually in the US attending grammar school or seeking treatment? This is an insult, not a question. With people like you, and the way you put your case across, no wonder the Ministry of Education now wants to stress more analytical skills for the students.

Look, I have made my positions loudly and clearly on this board on many occasions. Rairua had replied, their position is there for all to see or read. Some people are tired of reading my posts (I hope they are not reading this; I did WARN them not to, s nce it was all meant for you) and they claim I am repeating. So, please let it rest. Really, all that need to be said have been sais. Let it rest.

Please just e-mail me directly if you have something more to discuss with me personally.

10/11/00 06:06:27

Name: Zen

Your Nationality: Why do I care?

Comments:

It is not political correctness that motivates one to post. It is a clear concience with clear values of what is right and what is wrong. It is the power to differentiate between what is i) respecting the individual's right not to be imposed by someone else (sexually or otherwise) and equally important, ii) the right of an individual to have equal opportunities regardless of his age, looks or social status.

Precedence everywhere does not dictate what is acceptable. Precedence more often the root to many injustices.

You say that it is a worthy ideal and aspiration. Yet you are apathetic and do not protest in the presence of contradictory practices. What is this?

Not only are you apathetic. You put down those who does gives a voice to this aspiration by branding them nothing better than Political Correctness. What is this?

At best, it shows that you are unaware of this incongruence. At worst, you allow this incongruence to grow in your heart in the name of acknowledging how the world works.

Are you all the sort of persons that I will speak of such things anymore? Nope, because it is call falling on deaf ears. You can be who you want to be, do what you want to do. I have other more worthy battles to fight.

10/11/00 04:18:10

Name: actionkid ;P

Comments:

yea.. ahboi.. you caught me there.. *ak wiggles his bubble butt at ahboi* I guess I am in a frivolous mood right now.. so.. err.. if you guys are still feeling serious and filled with angst.. err.. please scroll past.. udderwise i'll look like the whims cal child on viagra..

Incidentally.. I had a highly ego-boosting session on the IRC last night. I mean.. I was like lounging around and chatting with some new frens when I suddenly saw this message in big bold red letters on the main channel. There was this guy asking for "the guy who was alone on ***** flight from Bangkok yesterday..." Heheh.. I admit, I was curious and wondering if he was referring to me.. coz.. err.. he got my flight time, description and all to perfection. Anyway, I chatted him up and true enuff.. he was lo king for me..;} I have to admit, it feels really flattering when someone remembers you.. from the moment you board the plane, to bumping into you in the streets of patpong, and later, on the flight back. He could remember the clothes I wore (which even I orgot..;P). I guess I had an inkling of who he was... as I did notice a guy who was trying to chat me up while I was at the waiting area.. but he looked so shy. And I wa shy too. But.. err... well.. gotta give him to him for trying. We hit off pretty well on te irc actually and maybe will meet up for coffee or sumthing next time..

I digress...

Oh yah.. my BKK trip. I realise that my earlier posting got cut off or sumthing.. No matter. My second day started out str8 enuff.. went for an early morning swim (I woke up at 7.30am!! slept only for 3hrs!).. had my brekkie before calling a fren who wa there on a bizness trip. We arranged to meet up for lunch at Siam Square. Err.. the shopping complexes here are HUGE. I felt so small and lost. We windowshopped, catch up on things, had lunch.. I saw so many things which I wanted to buy.. but..err.. coul n't decide so ended up buying nothing. Anyway, after lunch, he had to go meet some bizness associates.. so.. okay lor. I took a trip down to Silom Centre.. just thot I'd walk around.. and err.. it was VERY cruisey! There were guys walking up and down the scalator hoping to get cruised. And in the gent's too.. And they are more blatant than here in Singapore. It was good fun.. but I didn't do anything. I crossed the road and walked over to Dick's Cafe where I chatted with the nice waiters there. And the gave me this booklet on all the gay places in BKK. Very useful. I was browsing through the book alone when this ang moh approached me and asked if the seat next to me was taken. I was quite surprised actually, and replied that.. naah.. but neither were t ose other seats.. in fact.. the place was quite empty.. Heheh.. he felt quite sheepish actually and promptly introduced himself. As usual, he mistook me for being thai. Bt he was gentlemanly enuff. I would say abt 50+. He was a good source of info and w s giving me some tips on where to go.. esp if I'm a sticky rice. He suggested Obelisk as a must-see. Okay.. already on my list.. I wanted to go for massage too and he suggested this place. HIS massage or Aqua Spa. I'll KIV. Hmm.. after a while, I told h m that I needed to go and thanked him for his company. He looked a bit forlorn actually.. but.. err.. I think I was frank with him about my preferences... and he understood. A wonderful man, really.

Anyway, I made my way to Silom Plaza where I could see beautiful boys in tight white singlets lounging around on the 2nd floor. Yep.. there was that HIS Massage written big on the wall. One of them spotted me and tried to entice me into goingup. But..err. I felt extremely self-conscious, esp when the other boys got up too and started smiling and waving at me. I smiled back and sheepishly walked away. Err.. shy lah!

After that, I decided.. I NEED to pluck up my courage and just go. So.. err.. I decided to try Obelisk first.. to build my confidence. I took the train and just hope that my topo skills wouldn't fail me. As I sat in the train, there was this nice lean hun sitting opposite me. We made eyes for a bit.. but nothing happened. When I reached my station, I got up.. and so did he. Hmmm.. I walked where my nose and gut brought me to and so did he. But I let him overtake me and strted following him thereafter. Tru enuff.. he was also heading to Obelisk.

I have to admit, my first impression of that place was filled with awe. It looked majestic on the outside and extremely cosy inside. I paid my 180baht for my keys and stared at the lift. 11 floors of sheer gay pleasure!!! I was quickly skimming through th theme of each floor. Woah.. they have restaurant, karaoke rm, gym, video room, steam room, sauna, dark room with maze, red light area, rooftop jacuzzi and bar... whew! I gawked like an idiot for a while.. I took the lift to the 4th floor where the lock r rooms were adn changed up to my towel. I hit the gym first and did the token routine.. But then, I spotted my fren from the train. And.. err.. he was kinda hinitng that we go to the restroom. Hmm.. I went in to pee.. he joined me.. and he locked the d or. Err.. yep.. my first one ;P. After that I went upstairs and saw so many cute asian boys.. thai.. but most of em got that pan-asian looks.. chn-thai, etc.. very appealing! It was GAM heaven!

err.. this is getting lengthy.. and I'm getting a bit hot..;p Let's just say that I made nearly 10 new 'frens' and had a really really great time there, exploring every floor. And it rounded off with this really nice guy.. err.. young guy actually.. who w s really great..

hmm.. I'm getting hungry....

10/11/00 03:43:12

Name: Spinner

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

Something I Learnt Recently

My kind and gentle boss once told me: The most gracious act you can do is to agree to disagree, and leave an argument in a dignified manner before tempers flare.

Because even though you have lost the argument, you've gained a lot more in that people perceive you as someone who is gracious, matured, and most of all, respectable.

The one who is most passionate or has the loudest voice may win the argument, no doubt. But even if he were absolutely correct, he has lost the good faith and opinion, and standing he has in that particular circle.

Something to ponder over now, ... innit? :|

10/11/00 02:47:44

Name: Darren

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To Ahboi

Hey, you have found yourself a new fan for your writings, please do zoom in more often so that we can ogle, dissect, impeach and nourish overselves with your spread. Am hungry for a good feasting.

10/11/00 02:10:39

Name: LOVE

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Clicked on the link to REAL LOVE and found a place of advocacy for long suffering....yikes.

10/11/00 01:49:57

Name: Leibovitz My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: lickin Your Fav Body Type: chunky and matured

Comments:

My dear Piero, So from Itali yah. Hello welcome to Sg.

I suggest that u look up a porper housing agent, as they have many more contacts.I suggest that u hook up with a legitimate housing agent is Sg so that they can brief and enlighten you on the pro er etiquette and expectations of a tenant by prospective landlords in the fair island of Sg.

I thought there was this saying when in Rome , do as the Roman's do.In this case, when in Sing, do the Singapore Sling.Hehehe.Good luck in finding a place, try the local fish,bye bye

10/11/00 00:49:53

Name: ahboi

Comments:

I love it! All these exuberance of passion! Less there's misgivings, permit me to lodge my caveat that I am not being frivolous. :-) As I have said, I will no longer comment on the ... er what was the name of the thread again? hehehehe... BUT, I do have thought which I would like to share:

As one invariably jiggle with coins and dollar notes in one's daily pursuits, be it for livelihood or otherwise, does not one have to live with the two-sides of coins and dollar notes? Double standards are part of our life. It does not make it right, but t won't go away simply because we "feel" its wrong. Yes, it is a reasonable logic to conclude if we search within ourselves, we may find enough decency and god-know-what-else [PC] qualities to muster the courage of doing the "right" thing. And it is not a futile aspiration to uphold that one fine day, there will be more-than-sufficient-numbers to shift the paradigm of apathy. I can't argue with that nobility because I believe in it too. Yes, I really do. HOWEVER, [yes lah, a wee bit long-winded here], in l fe no distinctions are absolute. Where do we draw the line? Is there only one line? If not, where is the demarcation? etc etc etc. Till _that_ happens when it happens, I suppose one goes on plodding in one's own way that one only know how. If there is any regret I have in joining the [R] fray, it will be that I have neglected each of us have our own unique way and means and style and approach to our quest. I have no right in questioning Caution's style and I take it back. HOWEVER [the final one!], having s id that, I think controversies need not be negative, as long as we remember we are different yet the same. [ahboi pucker his lips for Caution's wet smooch]...[ahboi's waiting...] [ahboi's still waiting....]

AK - now, stop fiddling with your bollocks & tell us your BKK story/stories! *LOL*

10/10/00 23:49:13

Name: actionkid ;P

Comments:

the storm has not blown over yet? Is there a competition on who is going to get the last word? sigh.. our gay community is already facing so much discrimination and name calling as it is. It is really sad that we are turning against ourselves and doing wh t we do not want others to do to us. Can we please please let it rest? Constructive criticism is one thing.. but to start calling one another idiots and telling them to fxxk off is a bit too much. I dun even have the mood to write abt my BKK trip anymore. ;P

10/10/00 23:21:00

Name: Oral B

Your Nationality: Sg

Comments:

Jerry Springer show? why not, it sure fun to see pple participating in discussing, FYI, i kinda like the show where they can get so many pple bitching at each other. (though sometimes it is quite fake also - like the last night show where a man came on st ge and said that his girlfriend is a hooker, the show not only invited his girlfriend but also her pimp who turned out to be the guy's uncle. confused? so does everyone :-P)

back to our dear Caution.....pls pls read my posting again, the public bus analogy was to stressed my point that i have my own level of acceptance, i only allow certain pple to get intimate with. and do u have to tagged names and negative remarks just to ake u point?

so u called me an idiot and then embraced me as a family? hmmm..... that makes sense. am i suppose to feel glad? i am not sore by the negative remakes u have make (maybe a little, hey i am frank) rather i am amused by the way u handle the situation. allow d me to explain in the later paragraph.

once again pls pls read my posting before u go bitching, the ticket to woodstock was meant for U! coz u believe in a idealistic world that never did exist. go read it.

back to u accusation on the fact the rairua advertised here in the BB welcoming everyone and later changed its policy.

1st of all, that advertising! did u ever complaint to MacDonald that u burger doesnt look as good/ big as the one that shown in the advertisment? come on, rairua is a business organisation, they have their own set of rules and they are free to enforce the , dun like it? then dun go. it is u freedom.

2nd, back to the main theme, was u being rejected entry by the management? was u there when u friend being rejected? "my friend told me so" is not a good enough reason! if no, u dun even have a case! go to rairua and see it for uself! if yes, did the mana ement gave an explaination? what was the reason? AK has given e.g. that pple might be mistaken that they are treated unfairly. u "guility until proven innocent" accusation is dangereous and harmful to a gay establishment in this conservative country.

10/10/00 19:19:14

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To Oral B, and Oral B alone:

Where in the hell did I say that those who disagree with are idiots? I called you an idiot not because you disagree with me (did you and on what?), I called you an idiot because I am addressing you for what you are. Remember your analogy about not letti g undesirables (your words) touch you, and then followed by the remark you are not a public bus for people to go up and down? If you won't even let people touch you, how in the world could they ever go up and down on you?? Isn't oxymoronic?

Like I said before, even if you are an idiot, you are family. You felt sore that I called you an idiot? Are you attaching any negative connotation to the word? Listen, it don't bother me what people call me. It is their opinion. I have given you reas n why I call you an idiot, you have your own to call me, what a "coward?" Let it rest.

Well, by saying or jesting you are going to Woodstock next (is there even one?), I take you are maybe, perhaps pricked by your conscience about your views on discrminations?? If not, so be it. Please don't give yourself and me any more grief.

Please, please do direct all future personal comments on this matter to my e-mail.

10/10/00 18:29:05

Name: precaution

Comments:

i don't think anyone sane will discriminate a fat, ugly and old idiot with venomous fangs we just run for cover

10/10/00 18:05:58

Name: Oral B

Your Nationality: Sg

Comments:

after reading u long statement on the discrimination/ business exist for only $/ fight injustice shit, i am booking u the next tickets to woodstock where business world doesnt exist, only love peace and freedom do.

ops...... woodstock may not be held next year due to the bad business management of the last organiser. (women were raped right infront of playing band)

10/10/00 18:03:55

Name: Piero My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me Your Fav Sextivity: any

Your Fav Body Type: asian Your Nationality: ITALIAN

Comments:

If you rent a room, please consider me. I am an italian guy, clean, educated and I am looking for a room to rent. Is ok for me to share the flat or the house with a guy (or more then one) who is clean, honest and open minded. Please call me at 2221226. If I am not there please leave your name, number and I will call you back. Thanks, Piero.

10/10/00 17:56:52

Name: Oral B

Your Nationality: Sg

Comments:

Caution

are u trying to tell the BBS that those that oppose or disagree with u are idiots? if that's the case then there are a lot more "idoits" than u can imagine! this is a free bulletin board, we can freely, but with responsibility, expressed our opinions. if omeone opposed any of u views, u are free to debate or to prove them wrong! calling names is always the easliest, not to mention the cowardest, way out of any arguements.

FYI, like u, i have been around for quite some time. if memory serves me, i was blew into BW 1 month after AK started to post the stories. I had been to the 2nd or 3rd gathering.

10/10/00 17:02:49

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

This is for Peace only, so scroll down if you don't want to read this:

Of course I am not discriminating against people I call idiots. Like I said before, our family comes from all backgrounds : the hunks (even those who spew the golden spunk), the overweight, the rich, the older folks, the slims, the everydayman, the "not o perfect specimens of gay men", the smart ones and well, the idiots too. Idiots are idiots, but they are family too.

BTW, you did read what some of these idiots wrote right?

Peace, please e-mail me directly if you have further queries or concerns. Thanks.

10/10/00 16:58:46

Name: PIERO

My URL: Visit Me

Your Nationality: ITALIAN

Comments:

I am looking for a room to rent in Singapore. I am an italian guy now resident in Singapore. Is ok sharing the flat or the house with anyone who is gay, clean and open minded. Any location is fine, possibly close to an MRT station. Please do call me if yo have any offer at 2221226. If I do not answer personally, please leave your name and message and I will call you back. Thanks, Piero.

10/10/00 16:34:37

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

This issue on Rairua's discrminatory policies is beginning to turn into something personal. No problem for me since I am the one who is making the loudest noise. Therefore, for those of you who have something personal to say to me, you can e-mail me dir ctly. But if you choose to post your message here, I reserve the right to answer you here. Fair?

____________________________________________________________

This comment is specifically for Spinner only. Please scroll down if you do not wish to read what I am going to say to him.

You said Rairua does not owe us a living and they were just using BW as a medium for their advertisement. If Rairua does not make money from gay people, who do they make money from? It is clear from day 1 that they choose BW to promote their club becaus BW is the largest BB of its kind in Singapore. Gays are their market, period. They owe their living to gays, period. That's not difficult to understand. If all gays decided that their conscience is pricking (pun intended) them on this issue and decid d not to patronise them, see whether they can continue to survive.

This is a free medium for them or anyone to promote their products and services. I don't think they pay BW to promote their club here. They do so because it is free and they are reaching out to their market here, and also they have little other alternat ves. They surely would not advertise in the Straits Times - well, they might, but I don't think they would openly reveal that their club is primarily for gays to have sex with other gays. The Straits Times would probably make a front page article out of heir advertisement. And I would shudder when I think what the New Paper headlines might be.

Whether eventually who go and who would refuse to go to rairua is beyond my control. It is up to everyone to do what they think is right for them. You suggested that if they really turn away "less than perfect specimens of gay men (nice choice of words) there will be many other willing and able (as compared to disable?) gays to fill the gap since Singapore has a large gay population. Well, you may be right. But at least, there will be lesser people filling up the so-call gap; especially those who knew that they are not welcome, and those are appalled by Rairua's practices.

You asked if there is a need for tempers to flare and the use of the word fxxk (need not be too PC). Let me reveal something to you. I am more than anything, sad that the leading sauna here, owned by a gay icon, has such policies. That's my opinion. I am certainly not angry and do not hold a grudge against anyone - I will even give Ahboi a wet smooch if I get to meet him personnally. But I am passionate about things I believe in, and about things I am convinced of. The liberal use of "fxxk" is how I peak. I apologise. Some people complain I use weird metaphors, or use foul language, or get personal in my replies. I plead guilty of all this, but it was done because of my passion about the issue. But I really really wish that people wouldn't just j mped it to join an orgy (this thread) and realising later that they forgot to wear their rubber.

I am not nit-picking but David, you are one of them. You mentioned in your first post that Rairua did the right thing by not responding to all the queries, and also why should they risk the undignified act of mud-slinging by answering. And this is AFTER THEY HAVE REPLIED. I really don't know whether you DID READ their reply and choose to ignore it in your post, or you DID NOT READ their reply but choose to jump into the orgy anyway. Can you understand why I might be a little peeved sometimes? I mean, hat the.....heck.

No harm done. There are no, and I repeat no malicious intent. No one is the winner or loser here. If there is any positive outcome deriving from all these discussions and debates, it would probably be all of us will be walking away a little wiser.

And please do e-mail directly if you have other concerns on this matter.

10/10/00 16:00:49

Name: VORFPU

Comments:

I'm Very Old Rather Fat Pretty Ugly

We VORFPU's are familiar with rejections whether they are from saunas or from individuals. Never mind, we follow our own rules and still get a lot of fun because there are still many who like our type. But we do have to abide by some simple rules. If any ORFPU's reading this do not obey the following then they should amend their behaviour accordingly.

As for the rejections, I have been forbidden entry to a sauna in Paris (VORFPUS can get heart attacks here I was told), and to ones in Tokyo and Osaka (the big A was their reason). I have no problem in the bigger saunas such as Babylon in Bangkok because hey can absorb us without upsetting their mix of business. Obelisk could also with its 11 floors but VORFPU's get the cold shoulder there from other clients and word soon got around when it opened, so we give that a miss. Malaysian saunas are welcoming wh tever the size.

Where we are welcomed, we abide by the following rules so we don't offend anyone:

--- we dress smartly in bars or discoes, in accordance with our age, not trying to look like young chickens when we are in truth broody old hens. We smell nice, not reeking of Polo. We are well groomed. --- we talk quietly and sweetly. We put on a gentle self-confident air. --- we take an interest in the person we are talking to, often getting a comment that only older men can understand them, thus they prefer the older man. --- we smile paternally, avoiding at all costs the leer. --- we never whine, or frown, or scream like an old queen. --- we do occasionally touch the arm of a new friend gently to reassure them. This is not to be confused with an attack, or an aggressive request for sex.

In saunas, we avoid at all costs being considered pests. We stay in the background in light areas, watching for an interested glance. We always double-check that the other party is taking an interest. We are confident we can please them because we have ma y years of experience, and fellatio tends to be our speciality. While we never pounce on others, we get upset if someone (however young and beautiful) makes a grab for our genitals because that is simply not nice. I have had to fend off such people often, so can understand why youngsters don't like some VORFPU's doing it.

In dark areas of saunas, well it is a bit of a free for all. I prefer to find what I like then be gentle with him. Ever so soft kissing goes down well, first on the forehead, then the neck, then the nipples, then the mouth, while the hands are kneading th buttocks. The other party will be so overcome with emotion, he will forget he's with a VORFPU and will submit to whatever is required. The worst thing VORFPU's can do is viciously attack the genitals in those dark areas. So many tend to. Maybe that's one reason why they are not so welcome.

Now, I haven't been to any sauna in Singapore, but if I read here they are having a special night a week for VORFPU's and their admirers, I'd be along like a shot. So would quite a few of my friends around the region.

VORFPU's of the Region Unite!

[HendryTan]

10/10/00 15:49:08

Name: Nick69 My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me Your Fav Sextivity: 69

Your Fav Body Type: Asian Your Nationality: SG

Comments:

The morning was humid, I had left for work early so as to avoid the crowd.8am and I arrive at Raffles Place MRT.Hunger pangs made me head towards the Burger King outlet nearby.After purchasing my breakfast I had the urge to pee so I went to the "famous" t ilet to relieve myself.As I stood before the urinal the door opened and this pleasant looking business type came in.Flashing a friendly smile he stood beside me and unzipped himself.What a huge and beautiful tool!I fumbled with my zipper as I tried to st ff my erect tool into my trousers.He noticed my anxiety and reached forward to slowly massage my erection and helped me zipped up.He closed up and gestured me to follow him and we ended up on the upper floor gents.Being early it was quiet.An early morning session, how nice!We chose a large cubicle and went in.Slowly lowering his pants I kneeled down and eagerly slid his hard and throbbing tool down my throat.He continued to grow and started a slow humping motion as I licked his balls and caressed his shaft with my wet hot tongue.This went on for about ten minutes.Then he asked me to undress and made me face the wall as he caressed and kissed my back and expertly ran his tongue down my body.I sighed when he started on my asshole and later found his finger sl wly filling me.As he continued this finger f**king he moved forward and started sucking me.I came withing minutes.Next he leaned against me and started rubbing his cockhead against my wet asshole.He just was too huge so he made me squueze my thighs togeth r and started pumping his now hard and erect tool between them.He then shook and a stream of warm wet liquid spurted out onto the wall.Leaning back against the door he started smiling and stroking him took as I started licking and sucking the remainder of his juice.I kept looking up like a slut as I deep throated him and he remained hard.We then cleaned up and he gave me this so gentle peck as he walked out back to the crowd now forming in the square.Mmmmm..nothing beats a morning rise....heh..heh...

10/10/00 15:21:20

Name: Peace

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Word of Caution : When you start calling other "family" members idiots, isn't this a form of discrimination!!!

10/10/00 15:09:03

Name: Nite of the UnderGears

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

Sunday October 15th (7pm-8pm)- Nite of the UnderGears

Tes bring a pair of Jockstrap or G-String and show us at the reception for free entry into Stroke Gym & Spa this Sunday. Pls do not wear it along.

Call 2221226 Stroke for details if needed.

10/10/00 10:47:14

Name: Spinner

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

Rairua doesn't owe us Anything.

Someone said: You are wrong. Rairua do owe us. If not, they would not have come here in the first place to promote their club.

Huh? Doesn't make any sense. I mean, BW is just a medium for their advertisement. People can choose to go or not. I'm sure even if they hadn't posted an advert here, someone else would have done them a favour too. And then everyone else would know about i and go visit them. Now assuming they really turn away less than perfect specimens of gay men, I'm sure there'll be lots more willing and able gays to fill up the gap. I mean, Sg has a large population of gay and gay-curious men.

I'm actually quite surprised to see tempers flaring to the point of people using F words and stuffs in this BB. Hello! ... Let's wake up a little here. Is all the hot air going to change anything? Which leads me to my next statement that will make me Publ c Enemy #1.

10/10/00 07:38:05

Name: Darren

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To Charles

How dare you choose if I offer you Rick Martin, Tom Cruise and Leo DiCarpio? Do you want to be sent to the Alcatraz Island?

They are local matinee idols which some people would call Hunks???

The website might help:

http://www.eastciti. om

10/10/00 07:19:44

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To David:

1) Where did I popped out from? I have been around for a long time. Did you read my posts when I was cautioning people here for a variety of things? If not, then don't give me or yourself any grief.

2) You find my latter posts meaningless and stupid? You are welcome to your own opinion. I have been called a rabble rouser, trouble maker etc. over this thread. But if you care to read them again, ALL were in reply (this included) to idiots like you w o don't have a clue to what this was all about in the first place. I am not advocating to shut down Rairua, I was making sure they tell us that they don't really welcome all when they first say they welcome all in their promos. Some say they will get be ter business because of this, frankly, good luck to them.

3) I am not saying anything about the two other clubs because nobody complained about them here, and also, they did not promote their club here or hardly at all. Get it? If not, don't give me or yourself any more grief.

10/10/00 06:47:30

Name: david

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Well, just as Caution is asking where the fxxk Oral B popped up from, I'm also wondering about him??!! This place is just a nice BB for us to share whatever we'd come across. It's definately nice if someone realised that a particular sauna is discriminati g against certain fraction of us and post something here. It'll serve as a warning to the undesirables not to waste their time there. However to carry on and on about that..........what purpose does it serve? The undesirables will probably still try to go hoping that they might not be so bad after all, the desirables will probably go more often, since they know that the saunas are doing it for them (the hunks.....stop repeating!) and they'll probably have more fun. I think that once you've gotten your poi t to the rest of us (that is....retracting their initial policies once business is good) you should let it rest. If we 'heed' your point and stop going, you'd probably have 'won a battle'. If not, I really dont think there's anything much you can do. Duri g the intial few mails, I felt deeply for what those postings mentioned....but as it goes on....I found them meaningless and stupid.

Life's not that long to keep debating who's right and who's wrong. Let not bitterness rule our life. P.S. just curious, I thought that initially all 3 saunas were suspected of having been 'discriminating'......why the eagerness to drill an answer from Rairua alone? Had the other been 'cleared'??

10/10/00 06:41:03

Name: Charles My Email: Email Me

Your Fav Sextivity: nipples and cuddles Your Fav Body Type: chunky or hunky

Your Nationality: ang mo@San Francisco

Comments:

BW

Hi. This is not a flame. I read your comments on the sauna controversy. I found it interesting that you suggested that it PC-ness required everyone to let anyone touch them. Actually, you have been the only one on the BB to previously suggest we do that, as Caution pointed out.

However, my lesbian friend says that's a premise of the few lesbian sex clubs she's heard of. Even str8s had that premise: in the ancient Greek comedy The Congresswomen by Aristophanes, in order for a man to have sex with a beautiful woman, he had to have sex with an ugly woman first.

I personally don't believe that PC-ness ought to require that. Like Caution, I don't get upset if someone gropes me at a sex club. (That doesn't mean I'll have sex with them.) I do get offended if they do it at the gym or a social event, although I simply tell them not to do it rather than complaining to management. I'm definitely one of those people who prefers a verbal approach.

I feel it is okay for anyone to decline touch from anyone they don't want to be touched by. I feel there is a big difference between personal choice in sex partners made by an individual and institutionalization (a PC word, I'll admit) of those choices by a business, especially in a place where there are so few alternatives.

You are right that the illegality of gay sex, job discrimination, lack of family support, and violence against gays are much bigger issues. At the same time, with all those forces working against us, I am sorry to see us working against each other.

Darren

Haha. Great idea, although I don't know what any of those guys look like. Of course, until we are all one race due to intermarriage, people will still choose between rice, potato, beans, or black-eyed peas.

Brighteyes

You have an interesting idea about special nights. Rairua has noted on their web site that mid-week nights are slow. Perhaps they would be willing to try some theme nights on one of those nights. Some of the sex clubs and bath houses here do that. Obviously, if the ah peks know they have a better chance of getting laid if they go on Tuesdays, they may be less likely to go on other days.

Oral B

I think it is very witty for you to name yourself after a toothbrush. Yeah, I also love this board because it is such a rojak. Never a dull moment, well, usually.

on whether fatness is a choice

I keep reading over and over that each body has its target weight, and fat people who attempt to diet can actually harm themselves from low calorie intake. The body adjusts to the lower intake and it becomes even easier to become fatter.

As for liposuction, it is dangerous. A couple years ago this gym dude who wasn't even fat but couldn't stand the little bit of body fat that remained on him, got liposuction to get rid of it. He became infected from the procedure and died a day or two later. This is not hearsay, it was reported in our local gay newspaper.

10/10/00 05:25:56

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Spinner and Oral B:

1) You are wrong. Rairua do owe us. If not, they would not have come here in the first place to promote their club.

2) They have a right not to answer. I have said that countless times...read the whole thread. But they have replied...did you read their reply?

3) You are right. There is no such thing as bad publicity. If they have more business because of this thing, good for them. But at least some of the people here now know that we are not welcome.

OK kid, let's talk about discriminations. My view is that most people, especially the X or Y or have they reach Z? generation are clueless about the subject. Their view is, if they don't discriminate against me, then it is ok. No, it is not ok! If we annot "feel" how the those that have been discriminated against felt, then we are truly turning into a selfish one-dimentional group of people. If we can't feel for another being, how can people feel for us? Look, more and more "enlightened" straight pe ple are beginning to understand and empathise with us gay people. They truly feel that we as a minority group should not be discriminated against. But if they could not see beyond themselves, we would not be making any headway right? Oral B said he wou d not want to be a public bus. Nobody is saying to take a position on discrimination, one have to totally subcribe to the characteristics of the discriminated party, or in the case of Oral B, lay prone so everyone can get in and out of him. It would be ike asking straight people to engage in gay sex if they empathise with us. That's why I told Oral B to fxxk off because his analogy is so damn clueless. To fight discrmination, one just need to be able to feel or empathise with the discriminated party.

It is much easier (goes without saying but still I gotta say it just in case some fellas here don't get it) to feel discrmination if you are the ones being discrminated. Not a difficult concept right? It might just be one person, a few people or even a roup. In almost all cases, the discriminated party is a minority. There are however certain exceptions of course. These would include cases where the rich or powerful eg. South Africa, those bananas republics in Central and South America, certain parts of India, Indonesia etc., which are a minority but discriminates against the majority. Having said all that, if we are not the discriminated party, then is it therefore alright? How different is it when straights look down on us, and we look down on the undesirables amongst us? No difference right? Discrimination is discrimination.

What can we do about it? It lies within each and everyone of us. Like I said in my previous post, if all of us can fight injustice in our own little ways, can show a little kindness to our fellow men, can ease a little of the pain (physical or emotional and suffering of others, combine together it can be a marvellous thing. There is one condition however, and it is that we must be able to "feel" for the others.

I am sad, really, to sometimes read how some people here describes our own. And often, why and how things are always about them only. It is always me, me, me. Businesses exist only for money. And if people exist only for their own gratifications, how an humanity as a whole move forward? How can we gay people, as a minority group expect to achieve recognition if everyone especially the straight people look out only for their own interests? But thankfully, there are lots and lots of people that think ifferently, and if more people are to do so, we may actually one day be truly free.

10/10/00 04:33:23

Name: actionkid

Comments:

I always enjoy a good sparring of words. Gotta give it to you guys.. the occasional literary sparks never fail to make my day..

So.. Oral B.. at least you didn't get barbecued.. And yeah.. I agree with Spinner too! We ARE the controversy to begin with.. And this page serves as a great sounding board for such controversies. But I'd like to think that malice and personal attacks are kept to the minimum. Caution.. I dun think the remarks are personal. I respect your strong views actually. But one thing I learnt.. there's no harm putting a distance between yourself and the issue at hand, and viewing things from another angle.

btw, I've just found out that a very close fren of mine from long long ago had been following this board. My GAWD!! I feel sooo embarrassed!! Urrgh..

10/10/00 03:47:07

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

BW in his article question whether I will give my body to be played by someone I considered not desirable, or do I visit the saunas?

I do visit a sauna, the one at Jalan Sultan (the sauna near Beach Road which BW himself wrote about sometime back) where there is absolutely no attitudes. They really welcome everyone and when I say everyone, I mean EVERYONE! Not like some people (Yeah I am nit-picking, SO? sushi me!!). The last one year or so, I have visited the place less frequently because it is getting too popular. In fact this place had been around much much longer than any of the other saunas and I remember visiting it as far bac as 7 years ago, when most of the self-centred-sad-little-idiots here don't even have pubic hairs. It was a well hidden secret then, but like all good things, people spread the word around and now it is just too crowded.

I recalled back in July, BW wrote a short article which he probably deleted already, suggesting that hunks who spew the golden spunk (yeah, I am nit-picking again, sushi me) might just want to let the older or overweight folks who hunger after them, touch touch them a bit. It would do no harm and would go a long way towards satisfying the hunger of these people. I laugh at the audacity of the article, not because it is a stupid idea even though most would think it is, but because I had been doing it all long. I even e-mailed BW (dated 22nd July)on this and if I may, BW, the content of my e-mail is as follows:

BW, Couldn't help laughing a little when I read your suggestion. I do practise what you have suggested - not so much of pitying them (they include young hunks that are not really my type) but more because I understand how it feel to be rejected. So let t em touch-touch a bit won't kill me.

The subject of the e-mail to BW was titled : Try a little kindness, Show a little kindness... This phrase was taken from a song, again from the sixties by I think Glen Campbell about showing a little thoughtfulness to our fellow men.

BW, I knew there are far greater battles to fight for beside this issue about Rairua chosing to change their policy. In my remark to Skyline in one of my post a few days back, I told him that gays in the not too reccent past have been jailed, killed, gas d to death, burnt to death, etc. But just imagine if all of us can find it in our hearts to fight a little injustice or show a little kindness everyday in our own little ways, combine together, it can go a long way. I really don't believe that this is t o idealistic. It does requires us to learn, once a while, that we ourselves need not be the centre of everything.

10/10/00 03:15:32

Name: Darren

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Sorry that it comes on three times, something is wrong with the connecting server. Thanks

10/10/00 03:13:23

Name: Darren

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Comments:

To Kaypoh

Obviously the Buddha method didn't work. Beauty is such a premium that everybody go after it. Combing your hair everyday and wearing something to look your best are two examples.

Perhaps the nation should start a national campaign that by ear 2005, all males will have to look like cover-boys. That is because we are in the first world economy, we have to fight an international battle to bring our products to the world arena.

Begin a good campaigner, they will give you three choices.

(A - you would have to look like James Lye by target date.

(B) - Tay Peng Hui

? - Christopher Wee.

To help you along, we will fill your bank a/cs with $1,000 every month for you to go to liposuctions treatments, testorone injections and Expression S a. But by target date if you are unable to look like the above, we will sent you to corrective work order in one of the industrial parks in some distant land. You will also have to pay back the bank providents with interest.

Don't you think its a good idea? By year 2005 nobody can discriminate against nonbody and we will be one bid happy family. By that time everyone is so good looking that gays from all over the world will come to look for our SIA boys (Systematically injected attractiveness). Bang ok's gay business will feel threatened, they will start giving discounts. Wouldn't that be great for us. Hunks singapore and cheaper Bangkok.

No pun intended, just a mental fantascy done for fun, darren. Like the one on ego to Zen.

10/10/00 03:11:46

Name: Darren

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Comments:

To Kaypoh

Obviously the Buddha method didn't work. Beauty is such a premium that everybody go after it. Combing your hair everyday and wearing something to look your best are two examples.

Perhaps the nation should start a national campaign that by ear 2005, all males will have to look like cover-boys. That is because we are in the first world economy, we have to fight an international battle to bring our products to the world arena.

Begin a good campaigner, they will give you three choices.

(A - you would have to look like James Lye by target date.

(B) - Tay Peng Hui

? - Christopher Wee.

To help you along, we will fill your bank a/cs with $1,000 every month for you to go to liposuctions treatments, testorone injections and Expression S a. But by target date if you are unable to look like the above, we will sent you to corrective work order in one of the industrial parks in some distant land. You will also have to pay back the bank providents with interest.

Don't you think its a good idea? By year 2005 nobody can discriminate against nonbody and we will be one bid happy family. By that time everyone is so good looking that gays from all over the world will come to look for our SIA boys (Systematically injected attractiveness). Bang ok's gay business will feel threatened, they will start giving discounts. Wouldn't that be great for us. Hunks singapore and cheaper Bangkok.

No pun intended, just a mental fantascy done for fun, darren. Like the one on ego to Zen.

10/10/00 03:10:56

Name: Darren

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Comments:

To Kaypoh

Obviously the Buddha method didn't work. Beauty is such a premium that everybody go after it. Combing your hair everyday and wearing something to look your best are two examples.

Perhaps the nation should start a national campaign that by ear 2005, all males will have to look like cover-boys. That is because we are in the first world economy, we have to fight an international battle to bring our products to the world arena.

Begin a good campaigner, they will give you three choices.

(A - you would have to look like James Lye by target date.

(B) - Tay Peng Hui

? - Christopher Wee.

To help you along, we will fill your bank a/cs with $1,000 every month for you to go to liposuctions treatments, testorone injections and Expression S a. But by target date if you are unable to look like the above, we will sent you to corrective work order in one of the industrial parks in some distant land. You will also have to pay back the bank providents with interest.

Don't you think its a good idea? By year 2005 nobody can discriminate against nonbody and we will be one bid happy family. By that time everyone is so good looking that gays from all over the world will come to look for our SIA boys (Systematically injected attractiveness). Bang ok's gay business will feel threatened, they will start giving discounts. Wouldn't that be great for us. Hunks singapore and cheaper Bangkok.

No pun intended, just a mental fantascy done for fun, darren. Like the one on ego to Zen.

10/10/00 02:44:40

Name: Oral B

Your Nationality: Sg

Comments:

Bingo Spinner Bingo

now that's good summary.....

10/10/00 02:39:58

Name: Spinner

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

All that Jazz about that Gay Sauna

Wow ... the discussion is spreading like wild fire regarding Rairua and their practices.

Anyway, IMO, I think Rairua did the right thing .... of not responding to any of the queries the people here have been pressing them to answer.

1. They don't owe you guys a living, why should they answer you? 2. Why risk the undignified act of getting into the mud slinging by answering? 3. So much talk has been generated, surely that has got the PR engine in full steam, not mentioning the thriving business too...

And what gay controversy? Being gay is a controversy already ...innit? Hee hee

10/10/00 02:38:24

Name: Oral B

Your Nationality: Sg

Comments:

AK

u were saying something abt the no flaming part.........?:-P

caution

why the big temper? tsk tsk tsk now i know where the arguement gotten out of hand. so to set record str8 (pun intended) i didnt target u nor u 1st posting. i am merely telling pple that discrimination exists and it is kicking us every single day...... NOW u go read my posting.

10/10/00 02:35:45

Name: actionkid

Comments:

ouch! Yo Caution.. I think the thread has deviated somewhat.. it is no longer about Rairua retracting their policies.. but rather.. about discrimination within our community. Everything is superfluous here and you're right.. we need to know the background before commenting. But at the same time, we can also just pick on some of the salient points which we feel like commenting on. Telling Oral B to fxxk off is a bit harsh I think... PEACE!

10/10/00 02:18:23

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To Oral B :

fxxk off if you can't read. This whole fxxking thread began when I question why Rairua promoted their club here welcoming everyone, and later chose not to do so. When you finally stick your head out of the sand, stick it back into your ass. Jeez, wher the fxxk did people like you appear from. Read the whole fxxking thread before you comment!!!

10/10/00 01:00:50

Name: actionkid

Comments:

Hey Oral B.. it is always refreshing hearing all those comments. Naaah.. you won't get flamed. I thot it was a good argument.. I've been waiting to see when this thread will die off. Apparently, it struck a chord with a lot of people. As for my BKK trip . err.. well.. I only share when I feel whimsy..;p

10/10/00 00:54:12

Name: murayama My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: Slurpin' and lickin' Your Fav Body Type: chunky and matured

Comments:

James21, may I say that I once experienced symptoms similar to yours . I also hesitated goin to see the doctor, but I plucked up the courage and went to book an appt.I specifically asked for a young male doctor. Altho the nurse gave me a quizical look and I just bit my lower lip and stood my gound and said that it is a male thing.

Later when I got to see the doctor he was my type and he was so gentle and caring, and sooth he did with my nerves.He prescribe some medication and asked me to come bask again if the problem persisted.

He asked me if I've been sleeping well, (I wanted to answer that with a bod like his probably I won't after the appt).But I look at him with my puppy dog eyes and shook my head in the negative and he gave me simple sleep inducer for one night . When I got home I kept clutching the clinic's appt card and the medicine and thought about the cute doctor for one and a half weeks.Later I found out that I had been woorryng myself too much. It was probably one of those things that come and go for no apparent reaso . But My advice to u is to see a doctor , find out what is really wrong and probably u might meet soemone to make your day,yah.See ya.

10/10/00 00:41:28

Name: Oral B

My Email: Email Me

Your Nationality: Sg

Comments:

paisay! forgetten to add in something......

does everyone discriminates? i sure Do think so. everyone has a level of acceptance esp when it is associate with SEX. as what BW has said in his article "....would u let someone undesirable to touch u?" i wont. i have my level of acceptance, and i respec other's. i am not a public bus that everyone can go up and down. (heck singapore public bus also discriminate agst wheelchair or disable)

so ask uself, what's u level of acceptance?

10/10/00 00:33:14

Name: Oral B

My Email: Email Me

Your Nationality: Sg

Comments:

What a interesting place, i must say.....

there was a huge arguement on discrimination and suana, while AK was talking abt his BKK adventure, others posting "lost & Found" ads, plus a presistence guy advertising his massage service. WHEW! talked abt variety

i have 2 cents on the discrimination issue. what's with it? discrimination is EVERYWHERE! while this doesnt make it right to do, but we do have to accept that almost everyone discriminates, it is only the degree of it differs among pple. wanna find a disc imination-free place? try planet Mars for a change

i am still in US and havnt visit that suana before, thus i cant give a 1st person assignment (which i think everyone should before posting framing or flaming message) nevertheless, a suana is a business venture, they have the right to refuse entry to anyo e. to those so-called being refused entry, come on, carry on with u life, it is not the end of the world, get another place or sorts. if the so-called ugly/old/fat felt the sky was falling down just coz of a suana refused entry, i feel sorry for that. as ne can always go for other places that appreciate what one is (i myself go for older matured men). i was rather amazed how some of the guys can go through length and details to fight for the case. my point is, IF (noted the BIG IF) the suana is practisin discrimination, bring u business to other places. singapore market arent big to stay niche to a certain category of gays. with enough pple shifting to other joints, see if they will stick to the discrimination policy. no point bitching at each other and alling names. remember the $ is at u hand.

last but not least, to those presistence guys at cruising areas (whether hunks/old/ugly blah blah) No means No. stop pretering the poor soul into doing it. also being in a gay suana DOESNT means everyone have to F*** with everyone. so ple exercise the wor - tact.

'nuff said, awaiting flaming letters towards me :-P

10/09/00 22:42:51

Name: Blat

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

James21, You're brave to say that you're experince some health problem here, but you have to go for a medical check up and don't let your condition deteriote. I hope you can relate to us how you get into this problem so that we can take this as a lesson.< >

10/09/00 18:08:40

Name: brighteyes

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Dear fellow brothers and "sisters": In view of all the angst that has been built up over the admissions policies of certain clubs in Singapore, can I suggest a possible solution. Perhaps the clubs can consider themed nights, one night to be set aside for hubbies and their admirers, another night for matured men and their admirers, another night for schoolboys, another night for macho hunks, another night for all, etc so that the clubs live up to their credo of welcoming ALL and everyone gets a chance to v sit and a choice of which night to visit as well. This way, at least everybody from the proprietor to the paying customer gets happy. What say all of you? Shall we start the business of healing now? Much love and have a blessed week ahead.

10/09/00 15:24:58

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To Zen:

You are darn right, its the ego thing, but please don't deride it.

With an enormous ego LKY is able to drive Singapore from the third world to the first. Now we can communicate with the rest of the world through the internet in proper English and need not feel inferior to anyone.

Through pure ego male exhibitionists show us their big cocks.

Sheer ego moves some to post their juicy sex stories in BW so that we can enjoy proxy gratification.

An inferior distorted ego creates people like Hi ter who inflict immense suffering on innocent millions.

And if you don't have one, I will feel terribly sorry for you. Please take some pills and have a healthy dose.

egotistically yours dar-link

10/09/00 15:20:24

Name: test

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

What happen to BB??

10/09/00 15:18:17

Name: test

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

What happen to BB??

10/09/00 15:15:47

Name: Zen

Comments:

Kaypoh, in your opinion, what is respect? What is genuine respect? How does wealth and beauty bring you genuine respect?

To me, respect is simple. Give others what you give yourself.

Technology will be able to reverse ageing, and from what I read possibly avoid death even. I take a forward view on that. If beauty and youth is a matter of access to technology, why should it has anything to do with respect?

The same things that make people unhappy will still be there, even if you don't age or die. Bigotry and discrimination. I hope you revisit your mindset.

10/09/00 15:12:16

Name: Daryl My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me Your Fav Body Type: Toned bod

Your Nationality: Singaporean

Comments:

Hi, Just try my luck finding this guy that I saw at Tampines Spa on 7 Oct 2000 Saturday morning arn 10am to 1230pm. He was wearing a dark blue trunk and have a very defined body. His outfit is a blue jeans and a blue T-shirt with the chinese character (zi you ren). If you are here, please reply me witha mail. I am the guy who you commended "I admire your braveness". Thanks but I'm not that brave but too difficult to resist to touch your body..*ouch*

10/09/00 13:46:10

Name: Kaypoh

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To Zen,

You want to be PC, or talking wholeday about self-respect, you can go on. But current reality supports what I am saying. If not, why the massive surge in plastic surgery, beauty services for both men and women? Regarding about society getting old, I belie e within a few decades, there will be a solution to that too (saw that on docu abt anti-aging gene). Well, the rich now are going for their hormonal and testorene injections to keep young and kinky:) Sad isn't it? Well, in the area of sexual desire, I do ot think PC can play any part. If we have follow Buddhist/Taoist ideas, where we treat all as equals, and everything is beautiful, then there will be no more fashion magazines, movie celebrities etc.

10/09/00 13:14:44

Name: actionkid

Comments:

the Rairua argument has evolved into one about age and looks.. But only until our society matures, then can we claim justice.

Sure.. we will all be old fogeys someday. And the young of that age will start discriminating against us. It will be a neverending cycle and the only way out is to run after Neverneverland.. but i think only Micheal Jackson can go that far.. the rest of u will be left behind tending to our wounds. Point being.. we can argue until the cows come home.. but it is not going to change the situation. The way i see it, the only possible way is for us to have our own mindset changed. There is nothing wrong being gly or old or fat. We should just be confident of ourselves and fxxk the others who only go for the shallow things in life. I still believe that confidence can be the solution to a lot of things. I think my 'luck' in the gay lifestyle can be majorly contr buted to my confidence.. and the urge to go for nothing but the best.. for myself. It may sound narcissitic and selfish.. but hey.. that's how we survive. Stand on our own first and somehow, I'm sure things will fall into place. As I said previously, when I grow old, I hope to have settled down, find my role in life, find contentment and personal satisfaction.. and have a partner by my side. If I can have these.. why should I bother about how I look and how other people look at me? But, of course, being ga .. I'm also very vain. Hence, I make sure I look good. Everyone can do that too... It is really up to us...

10/09/00 13:14:11

Name: scarekid

Comments:

erm..... forget wat i use as nick the other time but ... abt the piles ? i see a doc , he gave me somethign to apply and something to stuff into my erm... hole ( kinda of like fxxking myself everynite) anyway the pices of EXTRA skin still there , should i see the same doc again ? or find another 1 ? sigh... my bf doesn't seems to care he just worry when can he f**k me again

10/09/00 12:56:34

Name: actionkid

Comments:

Sigh. I'm back in SG..:} I was surprised to receive a number of emails asking me to share my expereinces in BKK.. so.. err.. instead of writing individually, I'll just share bits and pieces of my trip here...

But before that.. hey James21 buddy.. PLEASE go see the doctor! Do not worry about HIV yet.. if you do get them, I'm sure there will be more visual signs and physical discomfort in the nether regions that will trigger the alarm first. Naaah.. I dun think t is that at all. But do go for a physical checkup.. you need not confess anything. Just let the doctor do the job and you answer his questions truthfully. Take care yah?

hmm.. where was I?.. To be honest, my trip in BKK was not meant to be a sexfest. I was there to relax and get away from work... which I did. And I went there alone becoz a fren backed out at the last minute.. Still.. I have no regrets coz I was able to ccomplish much much more by travelling alone. And I made many acquaintances who were good company.

Lemme see.. first night.. all alone and reserved. I decided to buy the stored value ticket for the skytrain before the office closes. And off I went to Saladaeng Station.. in the heart of Silom/Patpong. That area is bustling with activities.. thai girl sh ws, go-go boys, sex-n-massage, etc. As a tourist, you are bound to be harrassed and these touts will not leave you... they'll trail you until they get tired of walking, but that's also where another tout will take over.. I was fortunate in that I blended eally well with the thai boys.. I was practically left alone to explore on my own. I did receive some quizzical looks. But I simply avoided eye contact and acted as though I am the well-learned local..;p

First stop.. DJ station. The music was GREAT!! I was standing around outside for a bit and saw lots of cute thai boys and hunks walking in hand in hand, or in groups. Of course, the farangs were also in full force. I was hesitant to enter.. but made my de ision when I saw this tout (but VERRY cute!!) from Top Man go-go bar which was next to DJ coming towards me. DJ was not too big.. but cosy. And it was very crowded. And the music was really great pop.. they played remixes of the usual Madonna, Kylie, Toni Braxton, Whitney, etc.. I stood at the corner and was awkwardly trying to fit in. I didn't dare go to the dance floor coz everyone seems to know one another. But.. err.. this ang moh guy suddenly came towards me and started chatting me up in spurts of tha . I gave him a shrug and politely told him I wasn't local. He was actually very pleased to hear that coz he was looking for someone who could speak english. Anyway, we managed to hit off quite well and he accompanied me to the dance floor where I had a ni e time dancing away. But I realised that the local guys (whom I was eyeing.. ) were all potato queens. Sigh. Come to think of it, I looked like one too..;1 However, at about 1+am, I decided to walk around. I told my new fren that I wanted to go off. He t ot I wanted to go to his hotel with him.. but.. err.. I politely told him that I wanted to check out the other places. He offered to accompany me.. but.. I told him there were many other thai guys looking at him.. Actually, I was quite firm about explorin alone. He told me that he'd be at DJ again the day after..

I walked around the area.. passed by Freeman disco, where the friendly bouncers actually chatted me up. Again, they thought I was thai. Anyway, they asked if I wanted to go in. they told me that there is a cruising area on the third floor where guys can g ope around in the dark.. hmm.. I kinda told them I'll check it out some other time. I went by ICON the club and the other bigwigs.. saw all those places that I read about on the net come to life. It was quite an experience really.. I was busy swallowing a l the sights and scenes and making a mental picture of my itinerary for the next day.. But.. yeah.. travelling alone.. I felt sorta vulnerable. Hence, I decided to merely sightsee..

I walked on and ended up at Lumphini Park. It reminded me a lot like KP actually. The actual park itself was closed. But along the outer fence, you can see solitary shadows walking around. I was curious and decided to check it out. And woah.. I stumbled o er two thai guys kissing and hugging in the shadows. And not far off.. another guy was blowing this rather hunky thai boy! And just as I thought of turning back, this guy who was trailing me behind suddenly touched my crotch.. I felt a bit violated at fir t. But..err.. well.. he looked sort of guilty for touching me.. so I eased off. I walked a bit further away from the other guys and he followed me. He then started talking thai to me. I made some incoherent grunts hoping he'd disregard them. But he gave m a rather weird look back. And then he asked if I was thai.. in English. In relief, I told him.. nope.. I'm a Singapore boy! Haha.. well.. I wagested blowing with rubber..;} Apparently, the thai guys are quite comfortable about using rubber when need be.. the sex education seems to be very effective..;p Still, it was a good 2 hours..

When all was done, he brought me to his car (he left it at Lumphini Park) and he drove me back to my hotel.

My first nite ended at about 4+am. It was a good start though.. to a lot more...

10/09/00 12:53:32

Name: Zen

Comments:

"To get genuine respect, you must either be rich or beautiful". How much genuine respect do you actually accord anyone? How much genuine respect do you want to get when you are no longer beautiful on the outside in the years to come? By your own words ou betray your self-respect. *kok*

Modern consumerist societies throughout the world is rapidly greying. There'll be more and more ah peks (myself included... in the years to come). Are we going to stigmatise ourselves and self-destruct?

Do not do to others what you wouldn't do to yourself. Simple childhood moral.

I wonder how many customers Rairua is going to get if they run against this national/global trend. It makes great business sense to address this customer concern doesn't it?

10/09/00 12:17:12

Name: Kaypoh

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To Darren,

Unfortunately, modern consumerist society (post industrial age) is extremely demanding on everyone. To get genuine respect,you must either beautiful or rich. Why Princess Di gets more respect than Mother Theresa (or more news coverage???), because she is oung and sexy. And regarding about oldies/uglies "suffering" from sexual rejection, maybe what Buddha said is correct. Desire begots suffering. Ah-mi-to-fo (equivalent of "Amen").

10/09/00 12:17:12

Name: Kaypoh

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To Darren,

Unfortunately, modern consumerist society (post industrial age) is extremely demanding on everyone. To get genuine respect,you must either beautiful or rich. Why Princess Di gets more respect than Mother Theresa (or more news coverage???), because she is oung and sexy. And regarding about oldies/uglies "suffering" from sexual rejection, maybe what Buddha said is correct. Desire begots suffering. Ah-mi-to-fo (equivalent of "Amen").

10/09/00 09:19:29

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

It not contradictory to wish Rairua well and yet abhor their discriminatory practices - "reducing the infiltration rate of Ah Peks"?

Let me give you a few examples. Some of our members here may practice unsafe sex that to me is unthinkable. I may not have sex with them, I wish them well too. How about a shop that sells S&M stuffs? S&M is way too wild for, but I will still wish them well.

I have already admitted that it is Rairua's business right to discriminate. But they have to be overt about it. We all do things, and do it best if we get the right information. Apparently they have now deemed it fit not to welcome "ALL" which they had claimed earlier in their promos. That's the accurate information from them, and from that information, all of us can then act accordingly.

To the no nick who posted on 10/09/00 05:21 :

You seemed to know Rairua and their bosses well. You don't think perhaps your post might be a little biased? Some people may not comprehend how it felt to be turned away by so called "family", how about you? Can you empathise? Forget all the good time there at Rairua. Can you empathise with those that had been turned away, or have their membership application delayed or perhaps given the feeling that they are not welcome even if they are admitted entry? If you can't then please don't give me or your elf any grief.

10/09/00 08:01:25

Name: James21

My URL: Visit Me

Your Nationality: Singapore

Comments:

I have some breathing problem and chest pain problem recently.I'm getting aids? Pls reply guys,thks!

10/09/00 07:20:01

Name: Marcus

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

Afro-american(black men) and japanese erotic Vcds available. Email for details. If you are after afro-american titles. Pls state in your email. Deliver from overseas, Pay in S$!!!

10/09/00 05:21:19

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To: Brighteyes

I agree with your observation about Rairua. I was there twice *grin* last week and they seem to have a mix of people. Seeing the crowd with my own eyes, I didn't understand what the big argument was about. it was funny that one evening I was in the jacuzi sitting between 2 chubs and when I went home, I read on BW that Rairua refused admission to chubs. my suspicion was that some people are personally offended by something and making a big issue with sweeping statements.

To Caution:

As Ahboi says, you need to listen to you own tone if you wish to convince anyone. you come across as over zealous, and I'm sorry to say, self-contradictory.

You say Rairua is a professional outfit, which I agree they are, but a professional BUSINESS outfit is one that listens to their customers. what Rairua has clearly done, you can see from their explanation, is to listen to their customers about the ah pek ssue. it is a fact that many gays looking for sex don't want uncles around. any place with too many uncles will soon be deserted by the younger types. I think Chris and Alex are shrewd enough to know they have to do what they have to do. it is easy to pin the blame on rairua for discrimination, but the source of that discrimination is in the community. you yourself say that as a business, they have a right to discriminate, but your emotional statements following that contradict your position.

Businesses are different from the state. Businesses have to attract customers to pay their costs. The state forces us to pay taxes and serve NS. The gay non-discrimination cause has to do with discrimination by the state. It takes our taxes, etc, but does 't treat us equally. Businesses like rairua don't extract money from those that they do not take as customers. You can't accuse them the same way you can accuse the state.

One of the best ways forward for gay cause is the flourishing of gay businesses. certainly if you work in the civil service, or for a private company, you don't have the independence to fight for the cause. if you think it is incompatible for a gay busine sman (if he has to discriminate to keep his business alive) to fight the gay cause, then who is left to take up the fight?

Personally, I do hope that Alex isn't too busy to devote time to the cause.

Caution, you are nitpicking when you point out that the Rairua owners didn't add their names to the post. Isn't it obvious that it came from them? By nitpicking, people will get the idea that you are more interested in slamming them one way or another tha in the facts.

Same with the issue of their not replying immediately. I thought they explained why in their statement, yet you go on about it in your post. btw, I don't think they were really "promoting" Rairua very much in BW. they sent out statements to other lists as well when they first opened, and then, if I remember right, they replied to a few queries on BW. In other words, they were reacting to postings on BW. it's too sweeping to call that "promoting". Now that they have reacted to the recent thread by posting a statement, are you going to call that "promoting"?

I think I have said enough! But I wanted to get it off my chest. I have enjoyed many evenings at Rairua even though I'm no hunk. I spoke to Alex and Chris a few times and I think much of what was said here was unfair.

10/09/00 04:48:29

Name: Charles again

Comments:

Oops! I posted that comment before seeing AK's comment. Sorry, AK, if you are paiseh one, no need to write.

10/09/00 04:35:54

Name: Charles My Email: Email Me

Your Fav Sextivity: nipple Your Fav Body Type: chunky or hunky

Your Nationality: ang mo@San Francisco

Comments:

Ahboi

Mh sai mh goi. A colorful welcome for a colorful personage. I based the maps on my Sg map, which unfortunately only shows a fragment of Tampenis in detail.

*sigh* That whole thing about the map, and how Sg street-naming practices messed up cruising, was a joke and nobody got it. It's really hard to carry off humor in written communications, and I failed in my attempt loh. But better to try than not try. (I just have to learn that same lesson about meeting sex partners and potential bf's.)

Just Me

As for ugly, I thought of an example, although I would not quite call him ugly (although a friend thinks he is), more plain, and that is Taiwanese singing star and actor Richie Ren, who I saw in Fly Me To Polaris (set in HK) and in Summer Holiday (set in Malaysia). He may not be an Aaron Kwok, Leslie Cheung, Lai Ming, or Alan Tam (all of whom I adore) but his manner and facial expression still give him an attractive quality to me.

Very few have the attractiveness of a star; not everyone can successfully take off weight as it is part genetics and part body chemistry; nobody can avoid aging; and plastic surgery is in my book carrying things too far except for accident and burn victims; but anyone can learn to be charming, pleasant, and interesting, and anyone can choose to be attentive to their dress, grooming, and personal hygiene. You obviously have excellent qualities your friends and suitors enjoy. I hope to meet you someday (even though I don't qualify as a suitor due to being ang mo - which is not discrimination, but personal taste that everyone is entitled to).

AK

More fun adventures in Bangkok please. Hooray for Bangkok!

the debaters

(This takes up the rest of my comment, for those who wish to scroll past.)

Aiya, this is such a mess that I don't know where to continue. But, since it is a congenital condition of ang mo to stick our noses in, here goes:

* The posting on this page allegedly from Rairua may well in fact be from Rairua, as it has the same IP address as the 6 August and 30 July postings from Rairua.

* I too am disturbed by the use of the word "infiltrate". As if they are sneaking past the front desk.

* We have only one first-hand allegation of discrimination at Rairua (the guy who applied for membership and never got a response). It would make sense to have more first-hand allegations before we can say that something appears to be going on.

Since we don't have further first-hand allegations of discrimination, the remaining comments are to be taken as completely general, not about Rairua.

* If it is the right of a business to discriminate, then it is also the right of those discriminated against and their supporters to protest. When gay Asians were being discriminated against at San Francisco gay bars, gay Asian groups and the Asians' friends picketed those bars to get the policy changed. Picketing is probably not an option in Sg, so this BB and Sgboyx may be the only outlets for such a protest, if such a protest is warranted by actual discrimination.

* Before picketing, gay Asian groups tested the discriminatory policies to make sure they were actually in place (getting sympathetic ang mo friends of about the same age to go into those bars at the same time to witness discrimination). Anyone wanting to prove allegations would do well to conduct such a test with a friend of different looks who is not already a member, rather than basing assumptions on situations involving unknown others casually observed.

* It may be a sensible alternative to take one's business to another non-discriminating business, but that is a personal decision. Fighting injustice (where it exists) is also a valid if difficult choice.

* People seeking sex have a right to be treated fairly, even at a sex business.

* At the same time, those people seeking sex need to behave respectfully toward other sex-seekers and not behave abusively. A good start would be not to touch the other person when making a pass, and to immediately take no for an answer. It is totally appropriate for a business to permanently eject a patron who is abusing other patrons or putting the make on employees. (Hopefully, the employees are also not using their position to put the make on patrons, which I have heard second-hand of happening at some other establishment not in Sg.)

Sex businesses are not likely to be in the practice of constantly monitoring their patrons, as that would have a chilling effect on carefree sexual conduct (except in San Francisco, where they are unfortunately required to do such monitoring; whether they actually do or not is anoher issue). Therefore, ejection for misbehavior is likely to occur only on complaint. It may be unfair that patrons may be more likely to complain about harassment by an unattractive patron than about harassment by an attractive patron, but it hardly constitutes discrimination by the business.

10/09/00 03:55:15

Name: actionkid

Comments:

The recent thread of postings has made me realise that this page is still close-knitted as ever. Kinda reminds me of those days back then..

I am concluding my second (though virginal, where gay tour is concerned) visit to bangkok. Sigh. I will miss this place.. the sights and smell, and most importantly, the people. It is amazing that a city like this one can have so many charming wonderful p ople who are always ready to smile. And despite the commercial sex, one never fail to catch that glimpse of innocence.. and wonder.. say.. as they await payment, or the eagerness to please.. or the look devoid of worldly weariness. I think I'm getting hoo ed to this place. Nope.. not for the sex.. but for the "innocent" charm and simplicity. Fortunately, I have not let my heart behind yet...

Maybe I'll write more about my encounters here. I'm not sure if I wanna be too elaborate as I realise that a lot of my frens have started visiting this place (or rather, i've made many frens from here..) and I feel rather paiseh to speak too much..;}

But.. yeah.. it has been a crazy crazy weekend of bodily and sightful pleasure.. some intentional, some incidental. I didn't have time to go Babylon.. but was told that it is still open and functioning. But personally.. I lurrrrve Obelisk! Becoz it is has great architecture and decor. Becoz it is well-laid-out. Becoz it is the place where locals play.. and where the rice get harvested bigtime.. Lovely gym, lovely rooftop jacuzzi, high up with a good view of the surrounding area. Great restaurant and cafe And really really lovely sweet thai guys. I also checked out Aqua Spa.. where I was fortunate to get their best masseur.. I've never felt sooo relaxed.. And there were so many other incidences... I think the proportion of good looking guys here is ama ing. And they'll give Singaporeans a very very good fight in terms of style and attitude!

Travelling around has been made much easier now with the Skytrain. Singaporeans will have no problems adjusting as the trains are just like our MRT and it links to all the impt areas of Silom and Sukhumvit.. almost all the gay places can be visited via tr in.

Maybe I'll take anotehr weekend getaway next month..

10/09/00 00:51:26

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Thank you for your clarifications, Zen. And my fighting spirit is not restricted to this issue alone. As said before, in my reply to Ahboi, I had spoken up on other issues that may negatively affect readers here.

There are no winners or losers. May I offer a personal thought? "Those who agree with you may not be your friends, those who disagree with you may not be your enemies". Peace.

10/09/00 00:41:33

Name: Zen

Comments:

Caution, ok I let you win. *Zen Shutting the fxxk up* for now.

10/09/00 00:29:37

Name: Zen

Your Nationality: Why do I care?

Comments:

It seems most strange to me there are so many righteous warriors here espounding such greatness, when the fight revolves around one of these places people pay to get in for sex. Your fighting spirit is misplaced.

The posting by Rairua, if unfortunately true (I still have my suspicions), fills me with pure disgust. Exclusion of non-gays I can understand. To go as far as "we will do our best to reduce infiltration (by Ah Peks)...we thank you for your support" is trocious.

10/09/00 00:01:55

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To Zen:

Yes, I have an ego as big as my heart. Do you have one? How about conscience and compassion? If you don't possess them, then shut the fxxk up.

10/08/00 23:53:05

Name: Gerard My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me Your Fav Sextivity: All

Your Fav Body Type: All Men Your Nationality: Austro-Hungarian

Comments:

Guys play safe; I have lost too many friends and associates. I am 45, please take care. This old auntie has been around!

10/08/00 23:19:10

Name: Zen

Comments:

Ego.

10/08/00 22:29:56

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Go back to sleep Ahboi, I think both you and I needs it. Like I said, I can't get a buffalo to drink if it doesn't wants to. touche.

10/08/00 21:53:19

Name: ahboi

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

Caution:

The irony is that I did read and reread the Rairua thread before joining the fray and even then, it was aimed at sieving flak from fact.To flag an allegation is one thing, to add speculation [no matter how astute it was, in hindsight] blurs the issue. You have gone to great lengths in referencing your various posts to show how proper and justifiable u have been in your quest to get a response from Rairua. Well, I won't touch it with a ten-metre pole. What would u like to hear that u have not already decide on those to hear? The drag with attempts in clarification is that it often gets to be seen as anything other than for what it was meant to be. Your ire have been felt and yes, it was mitigated somewhat towards the end. But I still say u would have won mo e converts if u have only stuck to the facts instead of adding your "may or may not have discriminated" attempts at second guessing Rairua. In case u are wondering, no, I do not respond to inflammatory quips and smart-alecky bon mots aimed at me. I find i rather unnecessary and tawdry and does nothing to clear issues. However, like u, this will be my final comment on the Rairua thread. But, unlike u, I will not transfer the thread to other namesake and give it another workout. No worries, mate.

Hey Ak, sori to due your mail. It was tucked away in a wrong folder. I will get back with u in a flash. Are u still planning on u-know-what? Hahahahha.....

Charles dear, thank you very much for the colourful welcome! UmGoiSai. Its been a while since I have posted here at the BB, but I do attempt to keep myself abreast with what u and the rest of the fellow BWers are doing. Hmmm, your map of tenpenis is a rea knocker. Where did u glean them from? :-)

Last but by no means least, BW, thanx for the welcome back banner. I love it! *mwah mwah* [ahboi hop-skip-tra-la-la away from the BB and promptly fall down the stairs].

[HendryTan]

10/08/00 18:02:26

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

I am not commenting to Rairua anymore since they have replied.

This is specifically for Ahboi:

If I cannot convince a sleeping man of my convictions, so be it.

Never, had I in my first initial posts accuse Rairua of discriminations. I took pain to explain in my first post 10/06/00 21:00 why they and some of the regulars here did not explain the allegations, albeit a hear-say one, brought up by Darren and Used-t -be-a-Rairua supporter. I even said I would be greatly relieve if it was all false because I believed that they were a really professional outfit. Why don't you reread my posts again.

In my second post, dated 10/07/00 13:48, I thank Actionkid and Seng for their replies to my queries. But there was still no reply from Rairua. My concerns as usual was why they have time again promoted their club here and yet did not want to reply alleg tions brought up here? I did not accuse them of discriminations. I was accusing them of double standards when choosing to use this place to promote their club and not answering when allegations of discriminations was posted here. Read my post again.

In my third post dated 10/07/00 14:21, in reply to IRC's post about perhaps Rairua has a business reason to discrminate, I even said it is their business right to do so, but please tell us about it to save some of us and themselves some grief. But I also suggested that Alex's reputation might be shot to hell if they really discriminate and he is a champion of gay rights. You don't think it matters, I beg to differ. It is a little like an avowed vegetarian eating meat when he conducts business, or an ant -fur activist wearing a sheepskin jacket to work. That's my opinion so don't grief about it.

YOU ASKED ME in your post dated 10/07/00 14:17 to make my case based on its merits and demerits. And I did so in my reply to you here dated 10/07/00 14:21. I told you based on my own evaluations about how businesses work, they MAY be discriminating. I ever accuse them of discriminations. Once again, I was just peeved that they are still not commenting on the matter. Where did I step out of line? How many times must I remind you that they were the ones who promoted their clubs here numerous times bef re for their conveniences and business gains. I have no complains when they did that. Good for them, but don't keep quiet at your own convenience too. Well, they can keep quiet but I can keep complaining too! Can you understand that??? I have no axe o grind; I even openly supported them here!! Can you understand??? If not, let it rest. I can't force a buffalo to drink water if he doesn't want to.

In my post 10/07/00 06:59, I explain in exceptional details how what the namesake of this board was all about (against wars, injustice, bigotry, and how some people choose not to see or hear even when such things occur in front of them), what this board m ant to me (my family) and how I would feel if one of my family get slighted. Did you read it or are all the metaphors making you confused. Sorry, that's how I write, so don't grief over it. Where was the ranting and vehemence??? Admittedly, I was emot onal (heart tagging tactics?), and I make no apologies for it. How about yourself?? When was the last time you posted 3 times within a 24 hrs period on a single issue??? Either you are emotional about this too or do you have vested interests you are no saying? All along, I was just concerned/peeved that Rairua are using this board to promote their club, yet not replying to allegations of discriminations. Can you get it?? If not, don't give yourself any grief.

My last post dated 10/08/00 12:11 on rairua's reply, concised and simplified what they are in fact saying. I also feel they are cowards for not attaching their names to the reply like they did in most of their previous promos. And I even wish them good uck and success with Rairua. Lastly I said I would not patronise such a place or any other places that practice discrminations based on age and looks. It is against my values and principles. No ranting or vehemence there as far as I can see. Perhaps t e part about calling them cowards? I did point out the reason why I did that. Can't accept it? Don't give yourself any grief. Not worth it. Really.

I thank Darren for sticking up for me. It was tough and time consuming for sticking up for something I believe in. I never had an axe to grind with anybody unless I think they really stepped out of line. In my previous posts, I had warned against someo e who uses the name of an Armed Forces major (probably trying to sabo someone), another who uses the nick "Gay-Fag-Killer", and of course "Youth Singapore" and finally Rairua for their silence. I am perhaps over protective and paternalistic, but you guys are really family (there, I am emotional again, but don't give yourself any grief Ahboy). Some of us are more educated, smarter, more street-wise but there are many of us are not. Like I said last time, we are all different, the only common factor is th t we are all gays. If we don't look out for our own (whether they are in the majority or even a small minority), who will?

It is also my personal belief that the strong should care for the weak (not take advantage of them like in most other countries), the rich for the poor and the powerful for the down-trodden. Idealistic perhaps but it explains why my personal role models re Aung San Suu Kyi of Burma, and the late Mother Theresa. I could never in 100 lifetimes managed to do what they did. But in my small little ways, I can try to make a difference. This issue with rairua is but one small little way I am trying to make a little difference. There are other issues I am involved with which are of no relevance here.

I leave you with some phrases from Blowing in the Wind, which by the way is also my favorite folk song:

How many years must some people exist before they are allowed to be free?

How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn't see?

How many ears must one man have before he can hear people cry?

How many deaths will it take till he knows too many people have died?

The answers need not be blowing in the wind. It lay within ourselves.

10/08/00 17:30:18

Name: brighteyes

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Dear fellow brothers and "sisters", I am not sure that Rairua is particularly discriminatory. I was there tonight (Sunday night) and 90% of the clientele there was either plain/chubby/superannuated. I don't think there is anything wrong with having one of the above qualities; I just want to correct the misconception that Rairua is swarming with good looking hunks only. And I am not sure that they are making so much money that they can afford to be choosy, the place wasn't very full tonight. Maybe about 60 people at any one time and that's sp ad over 4 floors. Try visiting the Babylon in Bangkok or either of the 24 Kaikan's in Tokyo on a Sunday night - now that's crowded. And speaking of Tokyo, I was at the HX club in Shinjuku two Saturdays ago - now that place was swarming with really drop de d gorgeous guys ... Have a good week ahead, one and all.

10/08/00 17:16:40

Name: Paul My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me Your Fav Sextivity: no

Your Fav Body Type: pleasant looking Your Nationality: singapore

Comments:

Just to say hi to everybody. Mail test.

10/08/00 15:32:44

Name: Darren

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

So the saga has ended and we can all heave a sigh of relieve. Lets not bear any grudges against one another.

The paradigm has been fixed that the old, overweighted and urgly is not attractive even to its own kind. Some establishments may not even welc me you. The reality is, if you are overweight, please slim down or donate some kilos to the pau factory; if unattractive, please enrich the plastic surgeon. Well, if you are old, maybe you can disappear somewhere. What kind of society are we encouragin ? These members of ours, especially the older ones have suffered much emotional anguish in the past. Lets not marginalise them.

Gald that there are BB like Blowing Wind where once's voice can still be heard. And for people like Caution who will stand p for the underbelly.

I will not bear grudges against anyone. Grudges will ruin my personality, I want to remain cheerful and goodlooking. We should not be afraid to bring issues up, we can always learn to be rational and objective.

So will Action k d tell us more nice stories about bang-cock.

chiao!

10/08/00 15:32:17

Name: Farang

Comments:

Babylon was open last night. I know, I was there. Packed it was. No idea when the move will take place. It's not the end of the world; one just walks a couple of minutes down the road if one arrives and finds the old place shut.

Farang

10/08/00 15:18:02

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

hi there anyone know if Babylon in Bangkok is still open - i will be going there soon, and i heard its closed due to the new one opening soon...

10/08/00 13:56:38

Name: ahboi

Comments:

: That is the jist of the matter. I can empathise with those rejected after they have been nvited, can you?

++++ In theory, there will be few, if any at all, who can't display similar sentiments as yourself. But the point is the initial postings by Darren and Used-to-be-Rairua-supporter were based on hearsay. They said so themselves! And then it was followed by a barrage of rantings to draw Rairua for a statement. As posited, it was not an initiative I could align with because I subscribe to the old school of "innocent till proven otherwise". And there are other means of proving. And even if they were proven, so what? Was that the issue, just to prove that the allegations were true? Well, your vehemence show that it was not so. You merely needed an audience for your display of indignation. Even if it was justified, let me be the first to say that the method [of r nting based on allegations] wins no conviction.

: One last thing, am I the only person here feeling this way, that some members of my family here have been treated badly or even misled?

++++ This is where I depart from your cause, at least in emotional terms. You are clearly miffed by the "discrimination" that is shown to fellow member/s of the gay community and ironically, it have to come from within the community. That the protaganist s prominent about championing the gay cause, rubs salt to your anger. And I am not saying that all such sentiments are innoble. But if u wish to win support, try dropping the heart-tugging tactics and raise the ante with substantiated facts. You seem like a person not beyond that capacity, yet u were trigger-happy to draw a conclusion based on two gentlemen's hearsay and your own intuition/expolation. Admittedly, it came across as suspect. I would have thought u have an axe to grind too.

As it turn out, Rairua have posted their comments. Hindsight wisdom does not vindicate the fact that the origination of the Rairua thread on this BB was based on hearsay. As the thread developed, there were no posting surfacing to substantiate the allegat ons. So what does that imply? Perhaps after all these brouhaha, no one in this _family_ was _misled_ by the Rairua de-facto invitation? *shrug*

10/08/00 13:24:08

Name: durex

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

Wow! All this talk about Rairua is giving the place so much free publicity. Makes me curious to check out the place

Any place of business has the prerogative of turning away customers, whether it is for the right or wrong reasons.

Anyway,on a trip to BKK, I visited Babylon. I went to use the gym. It was packed. I went about my workout wrapped in a towel. Quite awkward actually. I notices two guys sparring together. They are both Thais, about my height, around 180 cm tall. One of th m offered me his gloves. I used it and returned them to him. He was cute, had a lean muscular body and a very nice smile. After that he and his friend went to other parts of the gym and did not look my way. I thought they were not interested. I finished m workout and left.

I walked around, up and down, in and out. Nothing much of interest. There was a variety of people from fat, skinny, young, old, ugly, handsome, hairy, hairless, and muscular. I ended up in the area with lots of rooms. There, I met the guy who loaned me th gloves. He smiled, took my hand and led me to one of the rooms. On the way over to the room, I noticed people staring at us. Maybe they were jealous. :-)

In the room, we explored each other's body, kissed, sucked, cuddled, chat and laughed. We went for coffee afterwards at a cafe in Silom Road. He practiced his reading in English, with my help and he helped me with my Thai reading. We went out that evening to a couple of places. He spent the night with me. He slept on his side with me cuddling him from behind. Every time I touched him he would get hard. I enjoyed the feel of his body next to mine. His skin was smooth and his lean muscles were a pleasure to eel.

The next morning we showered together. He entered me. He was pumping so hard and finally exploded inside me. We went for lunch at a restaurant called S&P. We exchanged numbers and email addresses. He went back to school and I came back to Singapore.

I will be back in BKK for business again soon, I hope.

10/08/00 13:01:33

Name: Concerned

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

This piece of news is impt for all married men enjoying flings with other guys. I notice that these people often do not wear protection, often depending on the outward appearance of their partners. PLEASE BE CAREFUL!

Jump In Number Of HIV-Positive Victorians

AUSTRALIA, Oct 3 (HealthAnswers) - Figures showed 40 percent jump in the number of Victorians diagnosed with HIV, the Department of Human Services revealed.

It also showed that married men who indulge in occasional gay flings are among those to practise safe sex in the wake of alarming new HIV statistics. While 71 new HIV cases were reported in the first six months of last year, 100 cases were notified in the same period this year.

Health Minister John Thwaites said a new safe sex campaign would aim to educate hard-to-reach groups such as men who sometimes had sex with other men, yet considered themselves straight.

"One of the groups that is difficult to get to are people who are married or in heterosexual relationships, but every now and then have homosexual sex.

"We need to get to people who may be having infrequent gay sex, and who aren't perhaps linked to the gay community and reading the gay newspapers, that sort of thing. HIV and AIDS rates would continue to rise unless all Victorians paid renewed heed to saf sex guidelines," Mr Thwaites added.

The Health Minister said unlike the first AIDS awareness campaign of the 1980's, which used scare tactics, messages on safe sex should now target specific groups within the community.

Victorian AIDS Council executive director Mike Kennedy said the challenge was to convince people to discard unrealistic assumptions, such as that their partner could not have HIV.

"You need to always assume that the person you are having safe sex with is (HIV) positive," he said.

National HIV infection rates are to be released on Thursday, reports the Hearald Sun.

10/08/00 12:59:58

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Jump In Number Of HIV-Positive Victorians

AUSTRALIA, Oct 3 (HealthAnswers) - Figures showed 40 percent jump in the number of Victorians diagnosed with HIV, the Department of Human Services revealed.

It also showed that married men who indulge in occasional gay flings are among those to practise safe sex in the wake of alarming new HIV statistics. While 71 new HIV cases were reported in the first six months of last year, 100 cases were notified in the same period this year.

Health Minister John Thwaites said a new safe sex campaign would aim to educate hard-to-reach groups such as men who sometimes had sex with other men, yet considered themselves straight.

"One of the groups that is difficult to get to are people who are married or in heterosexual relationships, but every now and then have homosexual sex.

"We need to get to people who may be having infrequent gay sex, and who aren't perhaps linked to the gay community and reading the gay newspapers, that sort of thing. HIV and AIDS rates would continue to rise unless all Victorians paid renewed heed to saf sex guidelines," Mr Thwaites added.

The Health Minister said unlike the first AIDS awareness campaign of the 1980's, which used scare tactics, messages on safe sex should now target specific groups within the community.

Victorian AIDS Council executive director Mike Kennedy said the challenge was to convince people to discard unrealistic assumptions, such as that their partner could not have HIV.

"You need to always assume that the person you are having safe sex with is (HIV) positive," he said.

National HIV infection rates are to be released on Thursday, reports the Hearald Sun.

10/08/00 12:41:59

Name: actionkid

Comments:

Are we done yet? Okay people.. let us all hold hands and let the bygones be..

Let me be the first to apologise to Darren and Caution if certain words of mine came out too strongly. And to all the other supposedly "undesireables" out there.. I admit.. I hate the circumstances here in our gay universe. I do not consciously discrimina e against the "undesireables".. Frens who know me can vouch in that I am willing to "play" with anyone as long as they have that certain quality which excites me (can be the way they smile, the eyes, the language, the diction, the accent, the general atti ude, the confidence, the sex skills, etc.. ) I have my preferences, and given the choice, I will chase after the ones that I desire. I dunno... things like age and physique are all temporary things. Everyone grows old.. and people grow fat. We should not be afraid to grow old (or fat). But sometimes, at the way things go.. that is probably the single gay guy's most horrific nightmare. Thus.. to the "undesireables".. err.. I empathise with you guys.. and I know that I may end up in your "circle" one day.. can only hope that the world will change and there'll be less discrimination by then.. or that I am happily settled down and contented with life..

I am personally glad that Rairua replied. It lays down lots of questions. And admittedly, their policies have worked. I never fail to have a shooting good time there..

Do I sound oxymoronic? hmm.. must be the BKK air. I love this place..

10/08/00 12:18:42

Name: joker

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Here's an interesting piece of news from CNN. It may be American, but I believe this is interesting to all gays.

Conservative legal foundation chief charged with indecency

Glavin

October 4, 2000 Web posted at: 12:10 p.m. EDT (1610 GMT)

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- The leader of a conservative legal foundation seeking to have President Clinton disbarred was charged with public indecency.

An undercover federal officer said he saw Matthew J. Glavin fondling himself on May 17 on a trail in the Chattahoochee National River Park in Gwinnett County, just east of Atlanta. The officer said Glavin also fondled him after the two started talking.

Glavin, 47, president and chief executive of the Atlanta-based Southeastern Legal Foundation, denied the charges. He was in U.S. District Court in connection with the case on Tuesday but did not enter a plea because his hearing was rescheduled.

ALSO Chat transcript: Matthew Glavin discusses Clinton disbarment effort Web Guide Consumer Center Select a topic Bankruptcy Discrimination Divorce Estate Planning Landlord-Tenant Personal Injury Taxes Law Dictionary "I vehemently deny the allegation," Glavin said. The foundation, which Glavin has led since 1994, has fought to abolish Atlanta's affirmative action program and sued to have Clinton disbarred for lying under oath in the Paula Jones sexual harassment case.

10/08/00 12:11:11

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: Rairua's reply

Comments:

This will be my last post on this matter.

Thanks to Rairua for their reply. As a good business entity, they have issued a lengthy statement that is filled with explantory mumbo-jumbo but they have nevertheless explain who and why they discriminate.

Let me cut it straight to the bone. Not ALL are welcome like they claimed in their various promos (see my first post on this issue dated 10/06/00 21:00 hrs). Call it what you want, I call it caving in to the hunks who spew the golden spunk; or rather th intent to protect their business interests (read money) which would be of course be to provide a "protected" playing groud for hunks who spew the golden spunk. I would even call it misleading if they had intentionally in the beginning wanted to seive ou the undesirables. Welcoming ALL should be welcoming all, not only the desirables.

They do not discriminates against body size or shapes. Chubs are welcome they say. Fats are therefore ok, as certified by Just Me. What about uglies, or people they deemed uglies?? No mention from them about uglies.

Ah Peks are subjective. Apparently quite a few of their customers have been complaining about them. They may be allowed in if they are in their forties or even fifties. How about those in their sixties and seventies? And they will of course "try their best to reduce the infiltration (nice choice of words) rate", which basically means they really don't want the Ah Peks but they may just let them in if the hunks who spew the golden spunk don't get mortified by too large a number of them hanging around.

Of course females and straight men that are blur won't get accepted as members. I wonder what is their policies towards bi or the straight-curious who are hunky and delicious looking? No problem here for me here if they are also rejected but I think the may just let them in to wip up the appetite of their customers (read:hunks who spew the golen spunk) inside.

They have apparently cancelled some memberships for those that "have been rowdy, or sexually harrass other members or their staff." Mmmm... wonder if any georgeous hunks who harrassed their staff or members have had their memberships cancelled?

Wondered why Chris and Alex's name are not attached to the reply, like in most of their promos or replies? Cowardice?...I think so too.

The bottom line is this. When they first started out, they had no idea how successful they will become. So they invited one and all to their club (read : please help us make some money). When they become successful, they realised that 1) hunks that spe the golden spunks do not like Ah Peks or maybe even uglies orgling at, or chasing them so to protect them they started declining memberships, or restricting memberships to the undesirables, 2) Money is more important than anything else, 3) Ah peks please stay away, 4) The wordings on their promos are not valid anymore. Please chuck them into the rubbish bins.

As explained by Rairua, it is a business decision to exclude or discriminate. They have replied and made things clearer. I accept it. In fact I wish them all the luck and Rairu continued success and prosperity - this is the truth.

Strictly speaking for myself, I have no intention of patronising such a gay establishment that discrimnates other gays based on age looks or anything. It just goes against my basic values and principles. And if anyone ask me, I will tell them the exact olicies of this club and I will also encourage them not to go. In fact, I would stronly encourage those of you who share my views to avoid this place and also any other places that discriminates against any of our "family" members. What is there to stop an "Ang Moh" from opening such a place here and stop Asians from going in? Ridiculous? Not so, just read Charles's previous post. It can even happen in America, land of the free.

And I think apologies should be made to Darren from those who accused him for rumour-spreading. It seemed that he is right afterall.

And my brothers and sisters, this WILL be my last words on this issue. Have a good week ahead.

10/08/00 10:06:40

Name: vincent

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

i am 22 178 60 tanned , boyish looking ,providing massage sevice , price start from 120- house call/hotel .. interested , pls call me at 98571057 or email me ...

10/08/00 10:06:00

Name: vincent

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

providing massage sevice , price start from 120- house call/hotel .. interested , pls call me at 98571057 or email me ...

10/08/00 09:52:02

Name: Rairua

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Much of the ire expressed recently at Rairua rests on two assumptions: firstly, that we should have replied promptly - which rests on the assumption that we monitor BW regularly and participate in your discussions (we do not); and secondly that we discrim nate - which rests on the assumption that discrimination is bad.

Regarding the expectation of a prompt reply, we are sorry you were disappointed, but we do not monitor BW regularly, as we have no intention of participating in personal discussion. However, a few friends alerted us to the recent message on this bulletin oard concerning us, and advised us to respond. Even so, we couldn't get into BW for two days. Geocities kept on saying it couldn't find the page! We didn't see the various postings until today.

In business, discrimination is necessary to some extent. It may not spring to most people's minds, but Rairua will not be what we are if we did not discriminate against a lot of people. We deny membership and admission to all females (50% of the populatio !), to any male who strikes us as straight (most of the remainder), to anyone under 18, and so on. It is through discrimination that Rairua is tailored for our target market.

Some businesses do not have to worry too much about limiting their customer profile, because the main issue is the relationship between the product, e.g. milk, and the customer's requirement. The relationship between one customer and another is not import nt to their success.

Other businesses have a participatory dimension, where the relationship among customers is a big factor. For example, in hospitality businesses, the interaction among customers contribute to the ambiance, for better or worse. Participatory businesses must take care over whom they admit, because some customers impose a greater cost than others. Insurance is another good example of a participatory business, because there is a pooling of financial resources. Some types of customers tend to "empty the pot", so insurers charge different premiums depending on age, smoking habits, medical history, family genetic predispositions, and may even refuse insurance cover altogether.

Even businesses that straighforwardly sell a product may have a participatory dimension which they ignore to their peril. Take watches and alcoholic drinks. If one said, "Eh, don't joke, this Ah Pek got Rolek, you know!" or "For that table of uncles, must serve Martell VSOP one", many will chuckle in agreement. Brand names can acquire negative associations that lead to other customers shunning them.

Before coming to the Ah Pek question, let's dispose of one allegation. Rairua does NOT have any policy regarding body size, or body shape. Chubs are welcome. Visit Rairua any night, and you will see some people who are overweight, others who are u derweight, etc.

Is age a factor? Not in itself. Again, come any evening and you will see a few in their forties or older. AhPekness is not just a function of age, it is more a function of social class. Many hospitality businesses keep an eye on the social class they attr ct.

From the first day we opened, customers have asked us, "What are you going to do about the Ah Peks?" As a participatory business, where customers come to interact with other customers, we cannot ignore this concern, because it impacts strongly on levels o customer satisfaction. It is no doubt subjective as to who is an Ah Pek and who isn't, and there is no way we can have a foolproof policy, but we have to try our best to reduce the infiltration rate.

We are also prepared to cancel membership of those who are rowdy, who sexually harass other customers or our staff, in order to maintain a comfortable environment for all. This may appear tough and robust, but we believe this is in line with our customers expectation of a well-run club.

Week by week, our traffic is steadily growing. We can't please everybody, but we believe that most of our customers are appreciative of our efforts in making Rairua the club and spa they need. We thank you for your support.

10/08/00 09:42:23

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To Angry Queen:

Apparently you don't have a father(Ah Pek) or mother (Ah Soh). Your father may be one of those that hangs out at other cruising spot and your mum may be fingering herself at Aaron Kwok.....hehehe. And describing another gay brother as trolls??? You are one sad little silly idiot.

How many of you guys here are still pretending "you did not see" or "you did not hear?" what Angry Queen just said. You keep turning your head around, it might just get twisted and breaks off.

10/08/00 09:08:18

Name: Just Me

Comments:

To Angry Queen: So your point is that you won't see me with disdain just because I'm fat or deemed not attractive to you lah? Is that the same position sauna rat holds? I don't go force anybody as long as that person indicates he isn't interested.

Charles : hehe Thks! I've more than my fair share of admirers. And quite a number are my types! Of course, I still can't compare to the likes of Leslie Kwok or Steven Lim, two of whom are friends of mine despite my looks.

10/08/00 08:33:54

Name: Angry Queen

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To Just Me:

In reality, the aggressive types are most often the ugly like truck types, ah-peh, and misc. trolls. Nobody minds being cruise from a reasonable distance, it even feels flattering. I believe this is the same with the straight population. Don't you all the loudest screaming bitches (who will fingered their wet cunt at the same time) at some male teen rockband or stripper show are often the fat, ugly ah-soh types.

10/08/00 07:41:57

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

sori, huitong, only musical instrument here is skin flute

10/08/00 07:22:35

Name: huitong My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me Your Nationality: singapore

Comments:

Nice website!Only if there is more instruments or notes about chinese instruments!Anyway,i had learned the xiao luan and i am now learning the erhu.i bought one for a hundred plus.Hope you will e-mail to me to keep me updated.

10/08/00 06:59:55

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: Rairua's Silence

Comments:

To Ahboi:

You sound patronising if you ask me. 1) If Rairua find all these discussions below them, it is their right. 2) When I told you to wake up, it was a reference to you taking a long break from this board. I have been a "member" of this board for a number f years and I can still the times when you were here daily. But for the last year or maybe more, you have taken a hiatus though you showed up once a while (maybe taking a midnight pee?). Asking you to take a good look around was a kind reminder to you he were lots of going on while you were snoozing.

3) I brought up family, you brought the difference between family and business, and also the right of Alex Au to be a champion of gay rights and also have a private business endeavour. Since all you guys seem to have a problem understanding what I an trying to advocate, let me gave an example or metaphor that Ahboi prefers:

Let's get back to basics. This is Blowing Wind's bulletin board. BW actually comes from the song Blowing in the Wind, a song by Bob Dylan from the sixties about war, oppression, discrimination, racism, bigotry etc. AND the way people "turned their heads and pretend they do not see", and the "number of ears one man must have before he can hear people cry". Powerful song, initially used as an anti-vietnam war song, but later regarded by many to represent their stance against oppression, discriminations, r cism etc.

Apart from the name of this board, BW specifically also said this is a board without attitude. Bw himself over time had also remarked about about slaves, war, injustice, inequality, discriminations against other races etc. He was ahead of his time, and that why I join this board and I believe some of you guys did too feeling the same way.

I think nobody can dispute we are a "family" here in BW. The word family is of course used loosely, but the one common factor we all share is that we are gays. We consists of hunks, fats, the goodlooking, the not so handsome, the rich, the poor, everyth ng you can think of. And we all co-exists somewhat peacefully. We are all different of course but the one common factor we are here is because we are gays. Thst's what I mean by family.

OK, let's say someone like Chris and Alex from Rairua joined this family (everyone is welcome of course) and and hand out invitations to ALL (read their posts please) to join their sex club. And they continued to do so and repeat the same welcoming tune ver a period of time here. Those who joined earlier are all admitted because they need the business. But later, some who wanted to join are turned away because they are considered undesirables. But at the same time, the desired ones are still being ad itted.

It is a business decision for them to discrimnate based on looks, as IRC had pointed out. Almost every business entity dicrminates based on one thing or another. Ahboi might be confused when he thought I did not know that they Rairua was first and forem st a business. Of course I knew, and I even supported them. But I feel pissed off if they discrminate against my family after telling them they would be welcome. That is the jist of the matter. I can empathise with those rejected after they have been nvited, can you?

In one aspect "Youth Singapore" was way ahead of Rairua. They were specific in their recruitment drive to attract only hunks and good looking people. They never said they welcome all. And if they get their act together and managed to get there venture tarted, anyone who get rejected and complain about it here, I would tell them that "Youth Singaore" never said they would admit everyone. Fair is fair.

The reason I am not writing to Rairua on a personal capacity is the same as above. They chose to promote their club here amongst my family. They should be man enough to admit or refute the allegations here. It is not as if they have not been here befor .

I have commented to Skyline what I feel about his post suggesting that old gays go to senior citizens centres to seek their gratifications. Other similar latter post, I wish not to comment to those self-centered sad little idiots.

One last thing, am I the only person here feeling this way, that some members of my family here have been treated badly or even misled? If some of you do feel the same way, please add your voices here.

10/08/00 06:50:16

Name: Charles My Email: Email Me

Your Fav Sextivity: nipples Your Fav Body Type: chunky or hunky

Your Nationality: ang mo@San Francisco

Comments:

Zen

Sorry, ah! My comprehension level was 0%. Don't worry. It is a Sg board, so if I don't understand something it is just the risk of being a ngoi gwok yun. Even your poem in response to Ahboi's poem, I got very little but understood you identified with his poem.

So I was able to find out kenna sai means like shit, and buay pai is same as Cantonese mh cho, not bad. But I thought bo lang ai meant not get laid; then JimmyW said he was bo lang ai, and he has mentioned getting laid, so maybe it means no bf. I guess kee is same as Cantonese heui, to go.

But as for Bo See Gang and Lin Lao Pek I have no clue. Farnie? Funny?

Actually, I need to track down my brief English to Hokkien dictionary. Unfortunately, it doesn't go in the other direction. Carry on.

the debaters

I obviously can't speak to Rairua's policies or whether they even exist. I would hope they are keeping out aggressive guys who won't take no for an answer or who force themselves on others.

In the 1980's, some gay bars in SF were keeping out Asians. I recently read that this is currently happening in Oklahoma City. Without saying whether any particular business is doing this, is keeping out people on the basis of age or looks any more justifiable? I think not.

I am middle-aged, overweight but not fat, and I like to think I am cute, that is, I like what I see in the mirror. There are many old guys and fat guys I find cute (that is, neither old nor fat implies ugly). For that matter, there are ugly guys I am attracted to due to something about their manner, that is they may be charming. I admit to never having been attracted to someone who is all 3 (where old is 55+, fat is maybe 40-inch (101 cm) waist plus, and I don't know where I'm going to get an example of ugly as that is at least somewhat subjective). (But I know some people would consider 30 old, or 33-inch (83 cm) waist fat.)

In our local gay paper, this guy who claims to be a therapist says that old, fat, ugly guys should only cruise other old, fat, ugly guys. This is ridiculous and encourages self-loathing by those who don't measure up. (Of course Just Me feels hurt!) Even guys who are old AND fat AND ugly have the right to cruise in a polite manner.

But all of us (including young, gorgeous hunks) would do better to back off if someone is not interested in us. At the same time, eyetracks never hurt anyone. (I don't grab people, but I do admit to leaving eyetracks.)

Debate is healthy, but you can't tell anything by Rairua's silence. How do you even know they read this board on an ongoing basis?

Just Me

Don't sell yourself short. I've known plenty of good-looking guys who think they are not good looking. If some guys say you are cute, trust them. (Better to trust the complimenters than the insulters, no?)

10/08/00 05:21:16

Name: Just Me

Comments:

Just for the record. I'm fat (overweight), not too old (mid 20s) and not too attractive (though some pple say I'm cute). I visit the saunas but not cruising, and didn't once force or be aggressive on the hunks or other cute guys. Mainly because I like sto ky guys or the more mature ones, not the conventional beaauty. I've personally been harassed by the aggressive ones (who incidentally are older and even fatter than me!) and don't like it either. But when some of you fellow BWers scold the "fat, ugly and ld", please at least discern that there are people who may fall into any of the above three descriiptions and are not as repugnant as you describe. I'm personally hurt by such remarks from my physically more well-endowed sisters and brothers. It's unfair o scold and condemn us who are physically less well-endowed, especially when we are not even like those black sheep you mentioned. Do you only want one kind of people with only one kind of look in this world? A return to Nazi ideas? *sigh*

10/08/00 03:27:20

Name: Angry Queen

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Agree. I found so many times at places of cruising or sex, these desperate undesirables are so aggressive that all fun is gone. Either they move follow you closely around, sizing you up with a microscope, and even dare to propose or even touch after count ess signs of disagreement from us.

10/08/00 02:36:41

Name: sauna rat

My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Body Type: slim/lean/toned

Comments:

There is so much about Rairua discriminating against old, fat or ugly. Dunno true or not. The world as a whole (gays, str8, what u have) love beautiful and powerful people and discriminate against the less fortunate. Even the fat, ugly and old discriminate against themselves (sexually that is). So why should they (old/ugly/fat) cry wolf! I say either you shaped up or shipped out! I am tired of these aggressive undesirables spoiling my nites at the sauna. We have our rights too!

10/08/00 01:59:48

Name: TTT

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

I went to Rairau more than 2 months ago. At the counter, guy in his thirties, I think, told me fill up a form to join as their member. He told me it would take 4-5 days to process. But till now I have not heard from them, maybe they decided to reject me. y the way I am in my late thirties. Comemts??

10/08/00 01:34:37

Name: ahboi

Comments:

*Yawn*

: Now, what I don't understand is why you do not seemed to mind that they are promoting their club here (did you read my posts?) but at the same time, refusing to comment on the allegations. What the heck is it so difficult for them to do so???

++++ Hmmmm, I wonder [ahboi scratches his head]. Could it be that all these rantings is below them?

[quote}: If you think my metaphors are rabble rousings, then can you ever imagine being one of those that was turned away? And we DARE to call ourselves "FAMILY"???

++++ Family? Isn't Rairua specifically a business endeavour? The gay-orientation of the clientiele should not detract from the fact that they are first a business. As a consumer u are free to choose whether to patronise the establishment. But to transfer he onus of upholding the gay-ethos to the management just because the owner happens to be active in an endeavour that is of his own private choice is stretching it a wee bit.

: You might want to wake from your long deep sleep and take a good look around you..... to you too.

++++ This is exactly what I mean about your rabble rousing. Is there really a need for such a display of petulance? And why would u think my opinion have been clouded by slumber?

I am genuine with my emoticon, it is an indication of amusement and not meant to be patronising.

10/07/00 22:55:04

Name: Angry Queen

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

To Yamamura,

I have started a thread in www.sgboy.com/sgboyx . Its under the celebrities gossip column. There's also a couple of other threads there regarding about Manhunt competition and Alex Liu's gay mafia gang. Innocent until proven? Only thing I can say that in ingapore, as long as your got backing, nothing will happen. And yes, I got an axe to grind with all these sad, out of shape and ugly slobs will are out for cheap (means free) thrills.

10/07/00 18:13:51

Name: loupgarou

Comments:

Lastly, you are right no one is obligated to answer anyone. For the same token, no one should stop anyone for continuing to express their dissatisfaction with Rairua for not providing an answer with their entrance policies. Just remember, their promoted t eir club here first...."Welcoming ALL" to their club. [unquote]

advertisement does not imply a feedback arena.

no one is denying your right to freedom of speech, I'm just saying what I have to say about your allegations (ie: no proof yet).

10/07/00 17:50:08

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

Asian Male CDROM containing 500 Asian Males from HK, Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, etc. marketing at $28. Email if interested.

10/07/00 16:44:10

Name: actionkid

Comments:

hey Just Me.. *hugs* In fact.. *hugs* to everyone here!! Make peace and SMILE!! (yep.. Zen.. it is quite farnie here.. ) Ta ta!

10/07/00 16:35:01

Name: Just Me

Comments:

I'm only replying because I was asked, and my friend AK has decided to respond. Was actually thinking of ignoring all these posts.

OK, I've spoken at length to Alex before. And Chris also speaks to me on and off when he sees me. I don't want to say anything more, but whatever is done by the Rairua bosses, it's their perogative to do so. I'm also a fat boy myself. I wasn't rejected by Rairua perhaps because I was a known personality in this circle, or because I was an old friend of Alex, or maybe because I simply have the money to give them to gain entry. I don't know for sure.

I once spoke to Alex who told me that the probability of finding fat boys in Singapore is high, because our liiving standard is high. So, if he rejects fat pple, then many pple will have to be rejected. Also, there are indeed pple who like fat boys and not hunks or dudes or whatever conventional beauty. I dunno if this policy still stands, as I've not been to Rairua for some time.

whatever Alex and Chris do, it's become less relevant to me. I don't think I'll be visiting Rairua for some time to come. As for those old and fat and ugly, sometimes reality is hard to swallow. Being one of you, I can empathise. Discrimination is eve ywhere. But I don't want to care to much abt it, because I still have a life to lead. I just find my own niche and be happy. If Rairua is indeed like that, then so be it. I won't go anymore and I won't grumble too much anyway. They aren't the first, and t ey won't be the last.

10/07/00 16:33:39

Name: actionkid

Comments:

woah.. was there an avalanche or sumthing??? The sudden spurt of postings is amazing! I nearly got cross-eyed reading everythign..;p btw, I am a bit braindead right now from having too much sex. So I dare not comment too much.. Yep.. here I am.. in the aysex capital of the world and I think I found GAM Heaven..;} I'm feeling completely flushed right now. whew!!

OBELISK is AMAZING!! Hahahah! I realise that Rairua is but a mere (but respectable) slice of this amazing place! Can you imagine.. 11 storey of pure gay entertainment in one classy building! And the selection!!.. My God!! The rabble rousers here will prol y hyperventilate with pure disgust!! I would say 90% are my type.. and beyond! I was extremely pleased to note such a high ratio of young attractive guys.. most of whom happen to be chinese thai or the yuppie sorts. I wonder if anyone did any screening at the door. If they did.. man they sure as hell did a great job!!! And they're sticky rice! Plus, they have a thing for singapore boys!! Hahaha.. you can imagine the feeling..;p When it cums to no of cummings.. I think I broke my record here.;}. Man.. I'm t o tired to go DJ station now.. sigh.. I think i go sleep early. Tomorrow.. see if I can wake up early to go running at Lumphini Park.. And do some shopping..

Oh yah.. about Rairua.. I agree with Loupgarou.. the guys from Rairua have the right to write or not to write their statement here. Caution, I think it is best if you call them personally, or send a pte email to iron out the issues. Let's not go out of ha d here, okay? And Darren, I hope you're not too offended by the strong comments directed at you. I think we all need to be reasonable and considerate somehow. Make PEACE!!

Hey ahboi! Didjagetmeemail?????

whew.. I need to chill out and replenish supplies now.. no more sex.. no more sex.. no more sex...;p

10/07/00 16:26:09

Name: murayama My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: Slurpin' and lickin' Your Fav Body Type: tanned,taut,tight,

Comments:

If anyone had read the Lianhe Wanbao on the 5th Oct 2000 Thursday nite , there is a story on the Manhunt International scandal on the front page. "Lie Meng Nan Nao Feng Buo" with the hunky pic of a Mr. Physique 2000 from an ang moh country.Wonder where he is from.

Hello there Angry Queen, how yer doin.Guess it wasn't yer lucky day cos' BW does housekeeping on Sat mornings, got censored hor. Mine too got snipped,sob,sob.

10/07/00 16:25:49

Name: Zen Your Fav Sextivity: Si Mi Dai Ji?

Your Fav Body Type: Lin Lao Pek. Your Nationality: Bo See Gang (Charles is it in the Singlish Dictionary?)

Comments:

You all very farnie.

10/07/00 15:11:18

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: Rairua's Silence

Comments:

To Loupgaroupa23:

You may think otherwise, but this IS the forum for THIS issue because Rairua chose this forum to promote their club. Please read my first post detailing the posts they made here.

On your point that it does not make business sense to discrimate; I am sorry but I disagree. Read IRC's pos - it actually makes business sense to discrimainate. Like good dance clubs all over the world, you don't get in if you are not good-looking, cool on the A-list, friends of the boss etc. The whole shim-bang is that if they let you in, then you are considered cool, good-looking, in, etc.

Well, I guess I am a trouble making rabble rouser, if I want an honest answer from a gay business who promoted their club here "Welcoming ALL" to their club. If Rairua responds directly to all these allegations earlier, there wouldn't be all these posts ight?

I can't speak for others but like I said I have zero affliations with other gay busnesses. Sheesh, I even supported them in my response to "Youth Singapore"!

Lastly, you are right no one is obligated to answer anyone. For the same token, no one should stop anyone for continuing to express their dissatisfaction with Rairua for not providing an answer with their entrance policies. Just remember, their promoted their club here first...."Welcoming ALL" to their club.

10/07/00 14:41:18

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: Rairua's Silence

Comments:

To Ahboi:

You ask me to evaluate this whole thing based on its merits and demerits. OK, I will give you my valuations, whatever it is worth. If my understanding of how good businessmen conduct their business is correct, then I think Darren and "Used to be Rairua upporter" may be correct. As explained by IRC, there may be some business reasons to compel them to do so.

Now, what I don't understand is why you do not seemed to mind that they are promoting their club here (did you read my posts?) but at the same time, refusing to comment on the allegations. What the heck is it so difficult for them to do so??? If you thi k my metaphors are rabble rousings, then can you ever imagine being one of those that was turned away? And we DARE to call ourselves "FAMILY"??? You might want to wake from your long deep sleep and take a good look around you..... to you too.

10/07/00 14:22:51

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: Rairua's Silence

Comments:

To IRC:

I agree with you that if, and it is a big if, that Rairua is discriminating because they don't want to frighten their hunks away, it is their business right to do so. It makes business sense not to kill the hunks that spew the golden spunk...(kill the go se that lay the golden eggs lah). But be man enough to say it. This is the age of transparency. They used to practise it when they posted the details of the visit from the vice squad almost immediately after they left.

IF they have such a policy and announce it to all, then they won't have, or perhaps have a lot less undesirables showing up at their door. Would save them a lot of grief I think. But then again, it would be shot to hell, Alex Au's reputation as a champi n of gay rights. As I said, it is all a big IF until Rairua's reply.

10/07/00 14:17:53

Name: loupgarou

Comments:

You can contact rairua for further information

Telephone: 324 6256 Fax: 324 4140 Email: rairua@rairua.com

10/07/00 14:17:23

Name: ahboi

Comments:

On the Rairua thread:

1. Darren: u started this thread based on hearsay yet u are insisting/instigating for Rairua owner/managementto make a "gentle statement". I wonder why? Why is silence not an appropriate response to rabble rousing allegations?

2. You claimed that the "gentle statement" is for the benefit of _everybody_. So, who is this _everybody_?

3. I fail to see where lougarou had resorted to "calling people names". If u are refering to "sod off", my dear, it merely means "go away"!

4. Do you have an axe to grind with Alex? You seemed pretty sure about his purported less-than-desirable-physical-attributes-how-dare-he-act-holier-than-thine attitude! Are u certain u have not mistaken Alex [Rairua] for Alex [Manhunt]. They are not the s me person. :-)

5. AK's suggestion is brilliant: Go see for yourself.

6. This is for Caution: u seem to be a discerning consumer and have no qualms to state your rights in demanding transparent information from enterprise/s soliciting for business. Nonetheless, do u really think that all this Rairua brouhaha have anything t do with discrimination and marginalisation? It is indeed only too easy to broadsweep and fall prey to populist rhetoric. Make your case on merits/demerits. Adding grossly exaggerated metaphors only come across as rabble rousing and could very well taint our integrity as a concerned [potential] consumer. :-)

Stay cool people of the Wind!

10/07/00 14:12:39

Name: loupgarou23

Comments:

why don't you send a private mail to rairua for their policies?

This board isn't even the relevant feedback forum for such issues. Also, no one is obligated to answer you.

I'm pretty sure that as far as the bottom line in business goes, rairua owners know that they cannot discriminate against paying customers.

the economies of gay business would be a) if you're not sexually desirable among a social group, you'd be wasting money going in.

note: I am not associated with rairua in anyway, just that I find trouble makers troubling. in fact, I would suspect darren and the other anonymous troublemakers to be libelous attempts in corporate competition.

if you have any first hand accounts which reflect a systemic corporate strategy of denying entrance to the "ugly,fat,old" catagories , which cannot be explained by room capacity exhausted.

please get them to post to the board.

10/07/00 14:07:29

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: Rairua's silence

Comments:

....sorry, I hit the "I'm Done!" key by mistake.

___________________________________________________________________

I was saying, in my post dated 09/21/00 15:24 in response to "Youth Singapore", I even complimented Rairua for their professionalism, and I suggested that "Youth Singapore" emulate them in the ways they handled things. I am telling you guys all these bec use I want to prove that I have absolutely no axe to grind with them, other than the fact that they are keeping silent on the allegations brought against them.

You can't have your cake and eat it. Rairua, in my opinion, should not be acting dumb at their convenience. Having said that, they don't have to do anything. It is their right to do so. It is also my right to continue to ask them if they have a discri atory policy. They chose to come here to promote their club, and I was convinced as evidenced above; now they should be professional and transparent enough to answer these allegations.

BTW, those of you who knows the management of the club, could you, if you can, contact them and let them know what's going on here. I cannot imagine that they don't give a hoot about the discussions going on here......unless......???

10/07/00 13:59:24

Name: irc

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Just trying to give another perspective...

I not telling the truth so dont believe me...but there is always a possibility that rairua rejected those ppl for whatever reason..to me, it's quite obvious

By the same common sense and logic, if the operator allow the ratio of these so-called "undesirable" ppl to increase...these so called "hunks" would have gone elsewhere.. these "undesirable" ppl would no longer have any "motive" to go raria cos no more "f ee" hunks to explore ..., so they too will move away from rairua.. the end result is the same as being raided...one way or another rairua would have to close shop. So.. why not intervene now.....

But again.. if this theory stands.. why didnt anyone complain abt Strokes and the rest...hmmm ? Perhaps, the operators elsewhere are not as shrewd as the one at rairua..or maybe they are short sighted...

p.s. - the above is based on the assumption that undersirable ppl go rairua to take advantage of hunks. And i think it will be the same in all context of discussion here... the hunks are like honey... and the undesirables are like bees.. so the bees will ollow wherever the honey is.. So, i think to avoid such scenario repeating in other establishments.. since we are trying to so hard to protect our playground.. So even if the "undersirables" are given entry to rairua.. dont let them have chance lor.. dont let them touch you lah.. then they will not have any reasons to go mah...but some hunks are so "yao gui", what to do...

I imagine there are 2 gangs battling here.. one who have been rejected and kept asking for explanation.. so they tend to be more negative about rairua.. the other gang... the all time favrouables.. tend to be a bit more positive.. because they are always elcome and attendted to first... its only human , rite ?

I have not been to anyone one of these saunas.. so i m not speaking for anyone.. but I find it strange that rairua did not comment here .. if i remember correctly.. when they first open shop here.. we got at the very least one posting everyday....maybe th promotional phase is over liao.

Lastly, dont believe what you hear, if you are really concerned, check it out yrself.(but i wonder how you can test them.. if u r not hunk , how do you test the different treatment, maybe go for plastic surgery and see if they treated you better ) i happe ed to know ppl here .. and they are so well liked here..after reading their postings, you cant help but agreed on everything they said and even fallen for them..but let me tell you something.. they r not as soon they protray...but is that their fault ? No its yours.. u didnt listen properly...after my experience with one of the guy here.. i knew the game.

As for the guy who is behind all these manhunt things etc... I dont even wan to waste any brain cells commenting him...he is having the best of both world.. getting money to fullfilling his desire.. he got brains.. so i cant complain

[HendryTan]

10/07/00 13:48:00

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: Rairua's Silence

Comments:

This is the first update to my first posting dated 10/06/00 21:00 hrs, on the allegations that Rairua may be turning people who are overweight, old or balding.

I wish to thank Actionkid and Seng for their response to my my post. From their observation, they are fairly certain that there is no discriminations against the "undesirables". I take their words, based on their observations, for it. Thank you guys.

Now, what about the management of Rairua? I have not seen a reply from them yet. What really bothers me is their silence on this matter. Look here, in my last post, I have detailed the day and time they are used this bulletin board to promote their clu . They have no hesitation to response to queries or suggestions raised by readers here. Why then is it SO DIFFICULT for them to respond to these allegations???

I am not saying I do not believe AK and Seng. Their views are afterall those of customers, maybe even regular ones. But who knows what is the official policy of the club. No one can speak on behalf of the club except the management of the club.

I have to confess that although I have not been to Rairua, I was extremely impressed by the reviews of the club, from the various postings here. I am so impressed that I have been reccomending it all my friends, local and foreign. I have even brought a oreign visitor there myself, but I did not went in with him. I was also impressed by the professionalism of Rairua when they posted in this board the details of the visit from the vice squad, right after they left. Wow, that was really professional I to d myself, so upfront and transparent. In my post dated 09/21/00 15:24 in response to "Youth Singapore" I

10/07/00 13:10:13

Name: Angry Queen

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

I had already said earlier (in the deleted posting) that during the first major scandal involving the horse-face Manhunt champion, I tend to dis-believe the story, but after string of scandals and now this? Anyway, there's another major beauty contest sca dal which involves an American competitor and the brother of Brunei sultan. Even that did not went much anywhere. I don't think this warrant only talk-show spot because it just to tame compared to all the juicy "controversies" already aired.

10/07/00 12:10:57

Name: fridays My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: sg Your Fav Body Type: sg

Comments:

hi everybody,i m coming back to singapore soon....can't wait after been abandon my home town.

10/07/00 12:10:11

Name: Navr

Comments:

(***** From BW :- Posting removed as requested by Navr. If Navr had been a straight guy, this incident would really be a stinker and we all will be stained by the bad publicity. I don't know why Navr would request for its removal but it's his right. *****)

10/07/00 10:55:27

Name: loupgarou

Comments:

while alex liu's past has been rather shady.

a) all news reports on the incident seem to come from a dubious source (more like a tabloid or something)

b) an international incident such as this would warrant coverage under various internation media: eg: cnn, wockner, usa today, international herald tribune.

I won't place much value in 3rd hand slanderous accounts until a report from a relevant authority is forthcoming.

10/07/00 09:14:39

Name: Angry Queen

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Hi (esp. to Yamamura),

I don't what the hell they deleted every single one of my message. Protecting this site from lawsuites? This incident is reported in some American papers (since the contestant in question was American). Local reports only sta ts to creep up. I supposed that ****** probably have better background support in Singapore than he does overseas (probably even count a number of local elites as his "clients").

(***** From BW :- Yep, it's called "innocent until proven guilty". You will love that phrase when the police come knocking on your door. If you have references to the overseas papers' reports, just post the links here and they will say much more than ll your vicious and inane shoutings will ever do. Again, the underground Web reports do not count.*****)

10/07/00 08:28:36

Name: Bi-in-a-deep-deep-closet

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Well said Actionkid, well said.

10/07/00 07:53:20

Name: Darren

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

I don't know why loupgarou is so emotional about the RAIRUA issue and start calling people names. There is no need for that.

Acutally a very gentle statement from RAIRUA that they don't do those kind of things will do. It will ease everybody's mind.

Thanks loupgarou for assuring us on behalf of RAIRUA.

10/07/00 07:51:37

Name: actionkid

Comments:

All these arguments about Rairua and restricting the older or ugly ones from entering is really getting ridiculous. Please... I say again.. PLEASE let logic rule over your heads (the one up on the shoulders) instead of letting things get out of hand, resu ting in a lot of unhappiness, backstabbing and general dissatisfaction in the community. I am sure all these negative arguments will somehow result in an action of some sort.. for example, I can imagine some irate idiot coming out to sabo these places by eporting them to the police. Hence, there'll be a raid, it'll splash all over New Paper, Project Eyeball, Lianhe Zaobao and what not.. and they'll be forced to close down. Is this what you guys want????

Please do not throw vicious rumours on a public BB like this one becoz a LOT of people read it, and a LOT of them take it as the true word. Be responsible, for goodness sake!!

Okay.. my responses to this issue.. since Caution questioned me.. is that.. NOPE, I have no idea whatsoever on whether Rairua, BH or any other sauna, for that matter, restricts visitors based on look or age. I have been there, and I still see the old, the bad and the ugly. But, yeah.. maybe the number of old and ugly guys in Rairua has decreased.. but honestly, I take it in stride.. it is a matter of evolution.. (Sorry.. I am saying this based on objective opinion and logic..) The guys who go to such place are mainly hunks and a lot of them seek fellow hunks or ravers. I have seen some of the older guys having to resort to teh dark rooms just to get a taste of their dicks. Otherwise, they are generally ignored. After a while, I am sure they will get sick o such ill-treatment and will choose to go elsewhere. This is just one possibility. There may be other reasons why they're not going there. Of course, there is also this BB where guys kept insinuating that they'll be thrown out if they turn up at Rairua... Ridiculous! Go there and try for yourself instead of believing everything here and then spreading it out like some venomous rumour!

Frankly speaking, I think I know where this rumour originated from. You guys probably lingered outside Rairua.. peeked through the door.. saw a group of 3-4 guys queuing to enter. And you see the counter boy asking the younger, better looking ones to come to the front, putting aside the "not-so-good-looking" ones to the back (you prolly assumed they're being rejected..). You know why? Well.. I happen to be one of those guys who usually get asked to go to the front. But that is becoz I am a regular there.. already have my membership card.. it takes a shorter time to process me, hence, they let me in first. To the ones who are asked to wait behind.. it is becoz that was their first time there. They did not have a card. And as a security measure, the guys at Rairua would usually ask them a few questions, just to make sure they know what goes on inside, before letting them in. Some of them chicken out during this brief "interview" and walked out. I have seen a guy do just that.. I suspect he is married and wsn t comfortable being there in the first place. Does that make sense?

Please let this rest. I am not saying this on behalf of Rairua.. or any of the other saunas. I'm saying it based on my own observations. Let us remain low and not cause any trouble within our own community. Hell.. we've got enuff as it is.. wat with that tupid Manhunt fiasco which is poised to embarrass our community BIGTIME again. (( Let it REST.

10/07/00 06:38:44

Name: loupgarou

Comments:

evidently we know who are the real trouble makers here. a) without evidence you accuse b) you build strawmen arguments. sod off darren

10/07/00 05:59:14

Name: Seng

Comments:

Hi guys, not that I'm trying to be the supporter for Rairua but I was there last night and still I can see those fat (well though only 1-2 of them but they are really over weight and out of shape) and also I met one guy just like very uncle (I think about 40+ almost 50+. Anyway, that's just what I see.

(***** From BW :- Well Darren, the proof is all there for anybody who cares. See for yourself. Unlike the Manhunt rumour where only Heaven, Earth and those involved would ever know. It is not for me to find out the truth but to protect myself and those wh post on this BB. By protecting the integrity of this BB, I hope the gay community here will have more confidence to resolve their problems in an open manner. *****)

10/07/00 04:59:55

Name: calvin

My URL: Visit Me

My Email: Email Me

Comments:

I WANT HUNKY MEN TO fxxk ME HARD EMAIL ME acalvintan46@hotmail.com with tel. NO PGS PLS!I AM HUNGRY

10/07/00 03:13:02

Name: Darren

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

About RAIRUA

Yes, its time we have an answer from Rairua. Recently I heard that they even take back membership cards from customers they feel are not attractive enough for their place.

Its very ironical, just a few months back, Alex, the owner has splashed in the m dia that he does not want any discrimination against the gay people. What are we suppose to make out of this whole thing?

Anybody knew anything?

10/07/00 00:53:45

Name: Yamamura

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

Yo, Ho,Ho Angry Queen, can't find yer posting on the Manhunt International Saga anywhere , were u censored.Can't find mine too.Angry Queen did u write anything defamatory, tsk tsk tsk tsk u should go to yer room and stay there until supper time and think f what u did. Hehehe.

BW apparently does house keeping on saturday mornings, watch out!

(***** From BW :- Yep, I had to delete the postings because he claimed that the incident was reported in the local papers here but I could not find it anywhere. Some reference to some suspicious looking website's report does not mean anything as we all kn w enough to be skeptical of the wild rumour mongering on the underground Web. I am protecting myself from litigation. ***** )

10/07/00 00:44:33

Name: Ah Huat My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: Playing the 98.00 FM Who WHAT Where Murder mystery Your Nationality: sg

Comments:

Errr.. who killed me ahhh? Heard it on the radio 98.00 FM with Suzanne Walker, quite like the ad trailer, wonder who plays the voice of AH Huat, soundes like revenge of the nerds, it was deliberate that they chose to single out singlish speaking Ah huat as a metaphor of what any 'c ol' Sgrean would not be caught dead in the guise of.

LONG LIVE AH HUAT!!!

10/06/00 21:00:22

Name: Caution

My URL: Visit Me

Your Fav Sextivity: Rairua's silence

Comments:

To Chris and Alex at Rairua:

Two gentlemen, "Used to be Rairua Supporter" post dated 10/04/00 03:23, and "Daren" post dated 10/02/00 13:33, both claimed that Rairua had a policy of not admitting overweight, balding, old or generally unattractive men. Is that true? Your silence on t is matter is deafening if you don't mind my saying so. Just to make things clear, I am not connected whatsoever in any way to any of your competitors.

I am bringing up this matter for a couple of reasons.

1) You have chosen to promote your club in this bulletin board. The following are the days and time that you have done so: 07/03/00 14:55, 07/13/00 04:03, 07/14/00 04:51, 07/17/00 11:02, 07/17/00 11:16, 07/18/00 16:25, 07/30/00 06:23, 07/31/00 17:54, 08/ 6/00 13:54. In one form or another, words like "..our facilities are meant for all to enjoy...", "we are committed to maintaining a high standard of cleaniness and ambience for the enjoyment of all...". Since you have chosen to promote your club here, c re to comment on the above concerns raised by the two gentlemen?

2) Why the long silence? If you, and the rest of the readers here, care to read the archives starting from July the first, you have not hesitated to reply when someone wrote something about your club. What's the difference here? Your computer crashed?

3) How about the rest of the regulars here like Actionkid, Just Me, Jimmy W and whoever is a regular at Rairua? You guys never commented on the claims made by "used to be a Rairua Supporter" and Darren. Why so quiet?

I will be more than happy, in fact I will heave a great sigh of relief if the claims are untrue. We are just starting to sniff a little air of freedom here and what we do not need is for ourselves to get cocky (pardon the pun) and start discriminating. aving said that, if Rairua wants to discriminate, that's is their business decision to do so. Just says so upfront and don't behave like rats. Read their previous posts; they say they welcome ALL. And if I understand my English, All means All. And if he claims are untrue, I will shake Alex's (the owner of Rairua and the person who wants to organise a forum for gays) hand and bow to him next time I see him.

What about Blue Heaven? They also promoted their club in this board on 09/01/00 at 12:53. Care to comment or have your computer crashed too?

To Skyline, post dated 10/06/00 05:15 :

You are one rude and inconsiderate fella. Over history, gays have been jailed, killed, burnt, gased, castrasted and thrown into mental asylums. We in Singapore are starting to sniff a little freedom and you want to marginalised us? You are one sad little idiot.

10/06/00 17:08:42

Name: To Iceboy

My URL: Visit Me

Comments:

I am terribly sorry for you after reading your posting. I know exactly how you feel now: to leave or to stay. Cool down a few days and don't let him escape the consequences of his fxxx-ing act, take the 1st step to talk to him even he don't. Don't hide your feeling; just "pour out" everything you feel about him: love, hatred, betrayal, disappointment, disgust..... Let him know how disgusting he is. To leave or to stay is up to your decision. To stay, you must learn to forgive him. Ask yourself: can y u do that? To leave, you must walk out of his life with your head lifted. Remember this: "You must lost the sight of land to sail to the seven seas." Take care. I, myself, have been hurt before and till today my heart is still bleeding. I believe ti e will cure the wound. Self confidence is important and will help you to get through this dark period. Whatever decision you made, you have my best wishes......Iceboy.